Ray Robinson .Vs. Roberto Duran @ 147.

[la-califa]

How would the Duran of Montreal have done against Sugar Ray Robinson at 147? 15 Rounds.

[Sweet Pea]

He'd have a live chance at an upset.

[teeto]

Robinson would win in my opinion, we all know how good Duran was that night, Robinson.

I'd elaborate but i feel i should save my energy seen as though me and you are about to engage in some lengthy posting in the hypothetical match-up thread!

[stevebhoy87]

This is a fight i've been thinking about quite a lot recently actually, i think the duran of that fight could cause robinson a lot of trouble, possible more trouble than any other welter in history (big claim but i fell fairly confident that he would deal with leonard, hearns and napoles).

Duran will look to take this fight into the one place that i fell robinson is slightly less comfortable, only hearns at welter would i give any advantage over him if a fight was at long range and if robinson was at sort of mid range, where he could consitantly let go with his barrage of power punches and beautiful combinations i 'd favour no one to beat him, however duran will not look to fight him there he will try and take this in close.

Now its not easy to get inside ray, with his power and handspeed is in fact very difficult, but duran has a great chin and an amazing ability to slip punches that in my opinion will get him inside, and once inside he is a better fighter there than robinson is,he is also physically stronger IMO and would get the better of inside exchanges

I see this fight being very close for the 1st 8-10 rounds with duran being slightly ahead at this point, after that when robinson realisise he is not having it all his way by fighting with duran i see him changing his style much like he was suppose to have done in gavilan 2 and start to use more lateral movement, wok behind the jab, land combinations and then move again.

Once robinson gets into this mode even montreal duran would struggle, he'd be eating to many shots shots and robinson power, accuracy and also footwork to get out of trouble whn duran managed to get inside where better than leonards IMO, robinson would fight with duran early and then change his style a i dont see it being totally effective and either TKO duran late or UD him

[BITCH ASS]

Duran would have a live chance with anybody at 147. Still though, like Hearns, Robinson would win......

[Stonehands89]

I agree that Montreal Duran is a live underdog. I'd go further, that version of Duran is one of the most formidable fighters who ever lived.

Robinson exceeds Leonard though, and that version of Duran barely got by Leonard. Robinson hits harder, had comparable speed, and had more experience.

Robinson, close UD, perhaps a split.

[laxpdx]

After a great battle, Robinson by comfortable UD or late stoppage.

[Bill Butcher]

How would the Duran of Montreal have done against Sugar Ray Robinson at 147? 15 Rounds.

He`d put up a decent fight, not as good a fight as he gave Leonard but a good one none the less... he`d ultimately lose tho, Robinson was a better fighter regardless of size, he might stop Duran but my money says clear UD with Roberto being hurt on 2 or 3 occassions.

[he grant]

He would have lost a decision in a very competitive fight ...

[robert ungurean]

I like the Duran of Montreal to win a razor decision.

[Bummy Davis]

I think vs Duran, Robinson would be a his best, still a differcult fight but SRR was the bigger welter and excelled at that weight.....SSR closr UD 115-113

[Bill Butcher]

I like the Duran of Montreal to win a razor decision.

You think Montreal Duran was the greatest fighter of all time ?

He is a natural LWT going against the best p4p fighter in boxing history in that fighters prime yrs & prime weight class.

If he beat him, he would surely be the greatest bar none... he wouldnt beat Robinson IMHO.

[AussieMauler]

Hey guys i love Duran and i dont post much in the classics

But every time a "classic" match up is brought up with Duran anyone at welter or above i just feel like he didnt have the size.

I know he fought as high as 170 (correct me if i am wrong i am not a huge historian) but at 5'6 ,5'7 you start to give up a bit too much at welter and above even though he was relentless.

At 5'10 or 5'11 Robinson is just too much. we are not talking about an average welter or middle. we are talking a supreme one with significant physical advantage

[Stonehands89]

Hey guys i love Duran and i dont post much in the classics

But every time a "classic" match up is brought up with Duran anyone at welter or above i just feel like he didnt have the size.

I know he fought as high as 170 (correct me if i am wrong i am not a huge historian) but at 5'6 ,5'7 you start to give up a bit too much at welter and above even though he was relentless.

At 5'10 or 5'11 Robinson is just too much. we are not talking about an average welter or middle. we are talking a supreme one with significant physical advantage
Welcome to Classic....

When Robinson was in his heyday there was one critique that you heard back there in the 40s... he was not considered to be very physically strong. He was tall, yes, but he was also lean. The bullish Duran, rest assured, would be the stronger man here. At 147 his stature wasn't so much that it would be a huge disadvantage. He knew how to get inside and his legs were good -no, they were excellent in Montreal.

[AussieMauler]

Welcome to Classic....

When Robinson was in his heyday there was one critique that you heard back there in the 40s... he was not considered to be very physically strong. He was tall, yes, but he was also lean. The bullish Duran, rest assured, would be the stronger man here. At 147 his stature wasn't so much that it would be a huge disadvantage. He knew how to get inside and his legs were good -no, they were excellent in Montreal.

I guess i let the mugging at the hands of Hearns dictate a little bit on my thinking. But then again that was 154, and Hearns was somewhat of a beast.

[Manos de Piedra]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

i think duran would win. peep this video if you like its nice!

[stevebhoy87]

I guess i let the mugging at the hands of Hearns dictate a little bit on my thinking. But then again that was 154, and Hearns was somewhat of a beast.

Duran was miles past his prime by the the time he fought hearns, the duran that beat leonard and palomino was a different beast

[AussieMauler]

Duran was miles past his prime by the the time he fought hearns, the duran that beat leonard and palomino was a different beast


Yeah mate i agree totally, but the impression it left has a lasting effect on my head to head match ups despite my best efforts to ignore it.

[Rattler]

If Duran can consistently get inside and stay there against Robinson - or Robinson decides to humor him and let it happen - then he can win a close decision.

Any other way and Robinson gets a comfortable UD.

[red cobra]

SSR by a 15 round decision in a real war.

[dpw417]

I respect the natural strorm that the Montreal Duran was...and have debated this numerous times on the board. I'll just say this...besides fast hands and feet, how does Ray Leonard with 25 or so fights compare with a Ray Robinson? In terms of experience, power, and also being outright vicious finisher...(a 'stone killer' according to John Garfield)
Duran took Ray to school the first time, everyone knows this. Leonard was the wide eyed inexperienced wunderkind who thought he could engage with the beast, and beat him at his own game...MISTAKE.
But Leonard did have his moments and Duran certainly received his share of punishment in that fight. It was a brilliant, brutal fight with both giving very good accounts, with Duran's style prevailing. But Leonard was quoted as believing that Duran urinated blood for days after the fight in a SI article, and while I can somewhat understand the angle of Duran being the stronger inside fighter...In what fight was Robinson physically dominated at 147 lbs? It's a mute point. My question is... what type of punishment would Duran have to take to go hurl himself (with the ferocity he demonstrated in Montreal) into perhaps one of the most devastating, power punching welterweights (with great accuracy and combinations) who would venture into the middleweight ranks, and was capable of hurting and taking out 160 lbers with his power? It is akin to playing Russian roulette with three or four bullets in the chamber, rather than the one IMO.
I don't feel Duran (even the Montreal version) is capable of pushing a fight that aggressively against Ray Robinson for fifteen rounds.
Robinson by clear and comfortable decision against the Montreal Duran. With all due respect to Leonard, Ray Robinson was a completely different animal.

[JohnThomas1]

I think Robinson would win clearly myself. He's a better fighter on the inside and off the back foot than Leonard.

[fists of fury]

I respect the natural strorm that the Montreal Duran was...and have debated this numerous times on the board. I'll just say this...besides fast hands and feet, how does Ray Leonard with 25 or so fights compare with a Ray Robinson? In terms of experience, power, and also being outright vicious finisher...(a 'stone killer' according to John Garfield)
Duran took Ray to school the first time, everyone knows this. Leonard was the wide eyed inexperienced wunderkind who thought he could engage with the beast, and beat him at his own game...MISTAKE.
But Leonard did have his moments and Duran certainly received his share of punishment in that fight. It was a brilliant, brutal fight with both giving very good accounts, with Duran's style prevailing. But Leonard was quoted as believing that Duran urinated blood for days after the fight in a SI article, and while I can somewhat understand the angle of Duran being the stronger inside fighter...In what fight was Robinson physically dominated at 147 lbs? It's a mute point. My question is... what type of punishment would Duran have to take to go hurl himself (with the ferocity he demonstrated in Montreal) into perhaps one of the most devastating, power punching welterweights (with great accuracy and combinations) who would venture into the middleweight ranks, and was capable of hurting and taking out 160 lbers with his power? It is akin to playing Russian roulette with three or four bullets in the chamber, rather than the one IMO.
I don't feel Duran (even the Montreal version) is capable of pushing a fight that aggressively against Ray Robinson for fifteen rounds.
Robinson by clear and comfortable decision against the Montreal Duran. With all due respect to Leonard, Ray Robinson was a completely different animal.

Excellent post.

[ChrisPontius]

Robinson keels him. Well, by decision that is.

[Mr Butt]

roibinson wins ud in a great battle but it would be an obvious ud with robinson having the edge in most rounds

[natonic]

Robinson by clear decision. Can't say much more than dpw said, but Leonard clearly lacked the experience Robinson had and it cost him in Montreal. Not much film, but I lean toward SRR being just a little better than SRL at 147 anyway.

[Manassa]

I think anyone who reckons Robinson could do a Hearns on a primed Duran knows very little about boxing. Casual fan at best.

Anyone who thinks Robinson would end up stopping Duran or beating him widely on points is overrating or underrating one of them.

Duran would have ran Robinson close or actually beaten him - I'd go with Robinson, but by a couple of rounds, and that's it.

Robinson, though considered the best ever by the majority of fans, and despite writing himself some ridiculous winning streaks in the '40s, was not unbeatable. It is visible to us on film that Duran, for a short period of time, was one of the premier welterweights - all time. You can say Leonard was inexperienced and less powerful than Robinson, but I'd bet that he was a tiny bit quicker and better defensively. Can you really imagine Robinson trading with Duran and coming off better? In some exchanges, but not consistently. Duran was fit and muscular at 147lbs, not overblown, while Robinson was vicious but skinny. And Duran's skills up close are perhaps the best ever. Robinson would likely be drawn into trade-offs in between his boxing, as that was his nature, and he'd get caught more than Leonard did. He'd fire back more too, so it'd be an even better fight.

[teeto]

I think anyone who reckons Robinson could do a Hearns on a primed Duran knows very little about boxing. Casual fan at best.

Anyone who thinks Robinson would end up stopping Duran or beating him widely on points is overrating or underrating one of them.

Duran would have ran Robinson close or actually beaten him - I'd go with Robinson, but by a couple of rounds, and that's it.

Robinson, though considered the best ever by the majority of fans, and despite writing himself some ridiculous winning streaks in the '40s, was not unbeatable. It is visible to us on film that Duran, for a short period of time, was one of the premier welterweights - all time. You can say Leonard was inexperienced and less powerful than Robinson, but I'd bet that he was a tiny bit quicker and better defensively. Can you really imagine Robinson trading with Duran and coming off better? In some exchanges, but not consistently. Duran was fit and muscular at 147lbs, not overblown, while Robinson was vicious but skinny. And Duran's skills up close are perhaps the best ever. Robinson would likely be drawn into trade-offs in between his boxing, as that was his nature, and he'd get caught more than Leonard did. He'd fire back more too, so it'd be an even better fight.
Good post, i do think Robinson wins though personally.

[Manassa]

Good post, i do think Robinson wins though personally.

Same.

[teeto]

Same.
Fancy posting in my Whittkaker thread? Sure you could make a good insight.

[Manassa]

Fancy posting in my Whittkaker thread? Sure you could make a good insight.

If I remember I'll post a pretty long one later :good

[DINAMITA]

I haven't seen any footage of Robinson at 147, only at 160. However, I feel confident that the Duran of the Brawl could hold his own against any welterweight in history and take it to the wire. Based on the footage of Robinson I have seen at mw, I think Duran would make it very close. Robinson has the skill off the back foot and the power to hurt Duran, but by the same token Duran had the fire and the inside skills to force the fight and make it close, competitive and thrilling.

[GPater11093]

I think Robinson wins this from reasons outlined above but its a great fight it really is.

[stevebhoy87]

I haven't seen any footage of Robinson at 147, only at 160. However, I feel confident that the Duran of the Brawl could hold his own against any welterweight in history and take it to the wire. Based on the footage of Robinson I have seen at mw, I think Duran would make it very close. Robinson has the skill off the back foot and the power to hurt Duran, but by the same token Duran had the fire and the inside skills to force the fight and make it close, competitive and thrilling.

Here's 10 minutes of footage of his welterweight title fight against bernard docusen, what impresses me is how well robinson is slipping punches at times, of course his combinations and putting everything behind his punches is top quality, not the best quality of footage however

3qORkfNNnYA

[duranimal]

I think anyone who reckons Robinson could do a Hearns on a primed Duran knows very little about boxing. Casual fan at best.

Anyone who thinks Robinson would end up stopping Duran or beating him widely on points is overrating or underrating one of them.

Duran would have ran Robinson close or actually beaten him - I'd go with Robinson, but by a couple of rounds, and that's it.

Robinson, though considered the best ever by the majority of fans, and despite writing himself some ridiculous winning streaks in the '40s, was not unbeatable. It is visible to us on film that Duran, for a short period of time, was one of the premier welterweights - all time. You can say Leonard was inexperienced and less powerful than Robinson, but I'd bet that he was a tiny bit quicker and better defensively. Can you really imagine Robinson trading with Duran and coming off better? In some exchanges, but not consistently. Duran was fit and muscular at 147lbs, not overblown, while Robinson was vicious but skinny. And Duran's skills up close are perhaps the best ever. Robinson would likely be drawn into trade-offs in between his boxing, as that was his nature, and he'd get caught more than Leonard did. He'd fire back more too, so it'd be an even better fight.

Yeh:hi: I'd have 2 agree, It'd be another all time classic & i would'nt be suprised if it came up a split-decision with SSR pinching it by 1/2 rounds max:smoke

I've never bought into this Leonard crap about him being inexpearenced when he fought Duran, anyone that can find their way around a boxing master like Benitez as Leonard did now's what's what:yep

I remember watching a Howard Cossell interview 2 weeks after the fight & Cossell got Leonard 2 spill his guts up 2 the fact that Duran had outboxed him, Leonard stated that he tried 2 use lateral movement but wherever he went Duran pre-empted & after the 2nd round when Leonard was caught by that counter that buckled his legs Leonard had 2 admit 2 Cossell that he decided 2 fight inside as it was safer than long range as he was suprised by Duran's speed ov hand:yep

Leonard went onto explain his logic, being that if he could cut down Duran's leverage by closing the distance he thought he stood a better chance at KOing Duran in the later rounds as he was natually stronger/younger & trying 2 box from range was'nt the best option after the 2nd round as Duran had nullified every move 2 slip & slide he attempted:smoke

Cossell countered with " He just never gave you the time you expected did he Ray" Leonard replied in a low voice Yeh! Thats Correct:good

Cossell continued with "He nullified you did'nt he Ray" Leonard replied "Yes sir thats Correct"

Leonard finished the interview off by saying wherever Duran goes i'll follow him, Duran was on the TV link up & allready looked fat as a pig just 2 weeks after the fight so i think yer can see where Ricky Hatton gets it from seeing he's a Duran nut as well, the obvious being Hatton ai'nt no Duran:bbb

[teeto]

If I remember I'll post a pretty long one later :good
Just saw your reply Manassa, go on, long post time please!