Roy Jones vs. a prime Carlos Monzon at MW

[KOTF]

Who wins it?

[Wu-Gambino]

jones tenatively wins a decision. monzon's timing and accuracy were superb, but speed kills and i dont think monzon would land consistently enough to secure the win.

[red cobra]

Monzon would have either stopped him in round 14 after dropping him twice, or it would have gone from there to a decision victory for Carlos.

[laxpdx]

Roy runs circles around Monzon to a clear UD.

[Stonehands89]

Over 15? Jones would have a better chance against Hagler. Monzon is too strong, he had too much pressure, too much power, and he knew how to fight speed and dazzle guys.

[redrooster]

You know Roy Jones wins this. I see Jones' right lead hammering CM time and again over the lazy jab. A befuddled Monzon moves in slow motion in comparison with the speedster, his feeble jab not even once reaching the target. Jones wins all but one round at worst--no other scenario is possible.

[JonesHagler]

you guys are REALLY underestimating Jone's power....Roy had amazing power at super middle.......

RIP to Monzon...but Jones had too much speed and power...

[redrooster]

Over 15? Jones would have a better chance against Hagler. Monzon is too strong, he had too much pressure, too much power, and he knew how to fight speed and dazzle guys.

Stonehands its good to see you back but who are we kidding.

Monzon too strong for Roy? Have you see Roy? He resembled a freaking monster compared with Monzon who had toothpicks for legs. And Carlos is not a pressure fighter,, he's strictly a finesse fighter-long arms and long legs.

Licata was hardly Roy Jones

[Silver]

glad someone mentioned that. jones had speed and POWER at 160. jones is the more naturally gifted fighter. hard to see how he doesnt get a decision. very few fighters match up well with a prime jones.

[My2Sense]

Monzon was great at neutralizing speed, a fact he demonstrated against Benvenuti twice. IMO he'd do the same to Jones, and then jab and pressure his way to a clear decision or (more likely) late stoppage.

[Mr Butt]

i think jones foot and hand speed would give him the edge ,jones by ud

[Stonehands89]

Hat's off to Red Cobra and My2Sense they are the only ones out here with a lick of sense. The rest of you are either:

a. bedazzled by speed/power guys -or-
b. know next to nothing about Monzon.

Roy Jones had about 26 fights as a MW. He was about 25 years old when he stepped up to the Super middles and had made only one defense of his IBF title. That is not enough of a pedigree. Monzon was an established great at MW who had more than twice as many fights against superior competition. Jones whipped Hopkins and Castro. Who else? Is that experience enough to deal with one of strongest, toughest and powerful MWs who ever lived?

Jones would be in a defensive mode by about round 9. Once that happens, Jones' potshots may not be enough for him to remain vertical at the end of the bout, never mind win a decision.

This bout is over FIFTEEN ROUNDS.

Redrooster, you are dizzy to compare Jones' strength to Monzon. Jones wasn't even taking steroids as a MW... and he didn't 'fight strong' either -he was all about flash and speed. Very effective, a difficult style to cope with no doubt, but prime Monzon is not going to get beat by an underdeveloped, inexperienced Jones who never even went 15 rounds!

Monzon was very strong and if you don't know that, you should watch the films. He was a serious pressure fighter, and if you don't know that, you should watch the films.

[Sweet Pea]

This bout is over FIFTEEN ROUNDS.
Just 12 actually, as is stated in the poll. Over 15 I'll favor Monzon, considering Jones never fought 15 rounds, but over 12 rounds I could see Jones eeking it out.

[Stonehands89]

Just 12 actually, as is stated in the poll. Over 15 I'll favor Monzon, considering Jones never fought 15 rounds, but over 12 rounds I could see Jones eeking it out.
Yeah well. I could see that too. And that is yet another reason why they should make normal fights over 10, maybe the nonsense belt fights over 12, but damn, let's have the linears/Ring Magazine belt over 15. Twelve rounds are for wimps. Fifteen rounds are for men.

[Sweet Pea]

Yeah well. I could see that too. And that is yet another reason why they should make normal fights over 10, maybe the nonsense belt fights over 12, but damn, let's have the linears/Ring Magazine belt over 15. Twelve rounds are for wimps. Fifteen rounds are for men.I pretty much agree whole-heartedly.

[PowerPuncher]

1. Roy Jones had about 26 fights as a MW. He was about 25 years old when he stepped up to the Super middles and had made only one defense of his IBF title. That is not enough of a pedigree. Monzon was an established great at MW who had more than twice as many fights against superior competition. Jones whipped Hopkins and Castro. Who else? Is that experience enough to deal with one of strongest, toughest and powerful MWs who ever lived?

2. and he didn't 'fight strong' either -he was all about flash and speed. Very effective, a difficult style to cope with no doubt, but prime Monzon is not going to get beat by an underdeveloped, inexperienced Jones who never even went 15 rounds! .

1. Weak argument, ability and performance is not reliant on resume. Jones beat Hopkins anyway who is better than any MW Monzon's beat and is better than Monzon himself

2. Its foolish to say Jones was simply flash/speed, he was a master of many things, imensely strong at the weight and was a very very dangerous puncher/finnisher at the weight. destroying nearly everyone at MW and doing it far faster than Julian Jackson, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank and James Toney, ie knocking out in 1-2 rounds men that went the full distance with the formentioned men.

Saying Jones would fight a defensive only fight is based on what? Because Jones was an offensive beast at 160-168

Jones beats Monzon nearly shutting him out whether over 12 or 15, the skill (yes skill), movement, athleticism, power, unorthodox abilities alongisde the obvious massive difference in speed would be far too much for the relatively straight up Monzon who isn't much of a puzzle to solve in his style

[Stonehands89]

I pretty much agree whole-heartedly.
I somewhat certainly appreciate it.

(haha)

[ramalinga]

Over 15? Jones would have a better chance against Hagler. Monzon is too strong, he had too much pressure, too much power, and he knew how to fight speed and dazzle guys.


He did well against those who were considered fast during his time. How many fighters did he face who could knock a man out with a hand from behind his back?

Prime Roy Jones is on a level of his own in terms of speed and reflexes. Monzon too strong? He wasn't stronger than Ruiz...

[Stonehands89]

1. Weak argument, ability and performance is not reliant on resume. Jones beat Hopkins anyway who is better than any MW Monzon's beat and is better than Monzon himself

2. Its foolish to say Jones was simply flash/speed, he was a master of many things, imensely strong at the weight and was a very very dangerous puncher/finnisher at the weight. destroying nearly everyone at MW and doing it far faster than Julian Jackson, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank and James Toney, ie knocking out in 1-2 rounds men that went the full distance with the formentioned men.

Saying Jones would fight a defensive only fight is based on what? Because Jones was an offensive beast at 160-168

Jones beats Monzon nearly shutting him out whether over 12 or 15, the skill (yes skill), movement, athleticism, power, unorthodox abilities alongisde the obvious massive difference in speed would be far too much for the relatively straight up Monzon who isn't much of a puzzle to solve in his style
You know, the other day, you had a pretty decent post and I stated such. But here you are lurching back to your powder-puncher ways.

Weak argument? You are the king of weak argument on ESB classic. Hopkins better than Monzon? You throw that out there as if it's common knowledge. It ain't. It's highly arguable. Ever hear of Rodrigo Valdez? He is not a man to be casually dismissed.

Jones was an athlete. I understand his style and the difficulties inherent in his style. I also understand Monzon's style, which was the metaphysical opposite of Jones, but no less formidable. Over 15, it is more formidable than Jones'.

You know nothing about Monzon, and should do your homework before you pick a debate with your brain half-full.

[Stonehands89]

He did well against those who were considered fast during his time. How many fighters did he face who could knock a man out with a hand from behind his back?

Prime Roy Jones is on a level of his own in terms of speed and reflexes. Monzon too strong? He wasn't stronger than Ruiz...
Here come the apologists! Tell us who the fighter was that Jones knocked out after he put his hands behind his back. I will, it was Glen Kelly. (Who?) I see that you are among those bedazzled by Roy.

Monzon was 10 times the fighter Ruiz ever was. And he sure as hell wouldn't play to Jones' strengths like Ruiz did.

......
In sum: Carlos Monzon had 100 fights as a MW. He lost 3. Do you think it was accidental? Jones had 25 fights, losing none. To so casually say that Jones -inexperienced and pre-peak would handle Monzon with ease is idiocy.

[PowerPuncher]

You know, the other day, you had a pretty decent post and I stated such. But here you are lurching back to your powder-puncher ways.

Weak argument? You are the king of weak argument on ESB classic. Hopkins better than Monzon? You throw that out there as if it's common knowledge. It ain't. It's highly arguable. Ever hear of Rodrigo Valdez? He is not a man to be casually dismissed.

Jones was an athlete. I understand his style and the difficulties inherent in his style. I also understand Monzon's style, which was the metaphysical opposite of Jones, but no less formidable. Over 15, it is more formidable than Jones'.

You know nothing about Monzon, and should do your homework before you pick a debate with your brain half-full.

I was going to put imo after stating Hopkins was better than Monzon, but I think that understates it. Hopkins has a much better variation in his arsenal, better defnsively and before we start to remember an ancient Hopkins, lets not forget a Hopkins in his 20s threw combination after combination and broke his man down with a world of pressure

Now Jones hasnt done 15rounds but he has fought a long fight after playing a basketball game. 1 thing I would agree on is Monzon's style is less physically demanding than Jones, which is but in his prime Jones didnt have a problem maintaining a fast pace

I really don't see Jones having too much problem hitting Monzon while not getting hit himself, Monzon is going to have to time shots but even then there's no guarantee they will land, Monzon's hand speed and recoil is slowish too and Jones would have a party countering him.

[BUDW]

Carlos beats Jones,Roy folds against the great Monzon, Monzon has the chin boxing ability to wear roy down and win UD maybe a KO if Roy get careless.

[teeto]

Carlos Monzon= Real Man

[Sweet Pea]

Hopkins himself favored only Monzon among MW greats to beat him. I think that says something.

[PowerPuncher]

Hopkins himself favored only Monzon among MW greats to beat him. I think that says something.

YES that Hopkins is modest, loads of fighters will claim a past great is better or would beat them, its the respectful thing to say. Even Ali claimed Johnson as the greatest HW ever in 1 of his books

[redrooster]

Just 12 actually, as is stated in the poll. Over 15 I'll favor Monzon, considering Jones never fought 15 rounds, but over 12 rounds I could see Jones eeking it out.

Eking out nothing. Monzon doesnt stand a chance. Whether 12 or 15, it makes no difference. I would bet the house on this one :yep

[Stonehands89]

YES that Hopkins is modest, loads of fighters will claim a past great is better or would beat them, its the respectful thing to say. Even Ali claimed Johnson as the greatest HW ever in 1 of his books
Hopkins modest. Give me a break. And Ali claiming that Johnson is one of the greatest HW ever doesn't show his modesty, it shows that he knows his history.

[Stonehands89]

Eking out nothing. Monzon doesnt stand a chance. Whether 12 or 15, it makes no difference. I would bet the house on this one :yep
The rooster is officially in his provocative gear now.

[Stonehands89]

Carlos Monzon= Real Man
I'd disagree there, my friend. Monzon was a damn tough fighter to overcome for any MW who ever lived -I'd favor 2 or 3 over him slightly, maybe, but no more. But a real man? I hope not. I don't want to have to be a sociopath to be a real man.

[Silver]

I'd disagree there, my friend. Monzon was a damn tough fighter to overcome for any MW who ever lived -I'd favor 2 or 3 over him slightly, maybe, but no more. But a real man? I hope not. I don't want to have to be a sociopath to be a real man.
yeah, monzon was a piece of shit, throwing a woman of a balcony is not a real man. great fighter though

[DINAMITA]

Peak Monzon would beat the Jones who beat Hopkins. Best ever Jones was around 1996 at smw. In 1993, he was not quite at the apex of his powers, and it would take a very special middleweight to defeat Monzon. I'm not sure history has produced one yet.

[Stonehands89]

I was going to put imo after stating Hopkins was better than Monzon, but I think that understates it. Hopkins has a much better variation in his arsenal, better defnsively and before we start to remember an ancient Hopkins, lets not forget a Hopkins in his 20s threw combination after combination and broke his man down with a world of pressure

Now Jones hasnt done 15rounds but he has fought a long fight after playing a basketball game. 1 thing I would agree on is Monzon's style is less physically demanding than Jones, which is but in his prime Jones didnt have a problem maintaining a fast pace

I really don't see Jones having too much problem hitting Monzon while not getting hit himself, Monzon is going to have to time shots but even then there's no guarantee they will land, Monzon's hand speed and recoil is slowish too and Jones would have a party countering him.
You don't have to put in an "IMO" to avoid the wrath coming your way for a dizzy post. You need to take a month off and go learn about Monzon and watch the film. Then post. Because as it is, it is clear to me that you spent 2 and a quarter minutes on youtube to get convinced of something that you went into the debate convinced of ahead a time: that Monzon is "too slow" to deal with Jones.

...
First we are subjected to some wee one bragging about Jones fighting with his hands behind his back and now we are subjected to you bringing up his disrespecting boxing by playing sem-pro basketball before a title defense. The fact is, he did both of those things against non-threats. See, when you are a talented fighter and you choose ordinary guys to look good against, you can afford to do things like this.

Show that you know the difference between style and substance.

[redrooster]

The rooster is officially in his provocative gear now.



Okay Stonehands I respect your opinion but you mention he would be too strong for Roy. And I have been hearing this for a long time being passed around from one poster to another. I know you are smarter than that.

I saw a certain writer at some other site whose name I wont say telling me how his strength would have be too much for Hagler or Roy. This guy who posed as a writer would spout all kinds of garbage saying how Monzon would pushed opponents around and so on.

But arent they all the same weight class? So how can anyone say Monzon is stronger than someone like Roy? And like someone said earlier, did not Roy handle supermiddle, lightheavyweights and even heavyweights?

I would think the natural strength of Ruiz would have posed a problem for him over the course of the bout but in fact, the speed of Roy Jones proved to be the problem for John; he couldnt solve Roy's style and neither could anyone else. Roy was always able to set the tone of the fight quickly

What I would look how each man copes with the style of the other. Roy is deceptively quick for someone so muscle bound while Monzon is built strictly for long range sparring-adept at the finer points of boxing, alot of finesse and expert at tying his man up at the right time.

Forget monzon's jab tho. Roy beats him to it every time with his right lead. It's almost like facing a southpaw. Whether from long range or on the inside, it's Roy's fight. And I dont even see how Monzon can even prepare for his style becuz no body was ever successful at that style but Roy himself.

Roy is way too unconventional style Monzon will never solve, not even over 15 rounds.

[GPater11093]

Carlos Monzon= Real Man

maybe in the ring but outside of it he was a prick and a total dick head he deserved to die

Hopkins himself favored only Monzon among MW greats to beat him. I think that says something.

Hopkins knows his history very well. I would pick Hagler and SRR definitly over BHOp aswell

Hopkins modest. Give me a break. And Ali claiming that Johnson is one of the greatest HW ever doesn't show his modesty, it shows that he knows his history.

:rofl:rofl

I'd disagree there, my friend. Monzon was a damn tough fighter to overcome for any MW who ever lived -I'd favor 2 or 3 over him slightly, maybe, but no more. But a real man? I hope not. I don't want to have to be a sociopath to be a real man.

:rofl:rofl




As to the thread title

I just think Monzon is far too clever and far too good of a ring general fro Jones. Also Carlos was almost always the slower fighter in a fight but he nuetralised it very very well.

[McGrain]

Anyway, Monzon beats Jones at MW. Jones was something like 23-0 at MW when he fought there the last time and for the first 15 or so he was HUGELY over protected. Putting him in with primed, experienced killer Monzon is irresponsible. Monzon by KO.

[Stonehands89]

Okay Stonehands I respect your opinion but you mention he would be too strong for Roy. And I have been hearing this for a long time being passed around from one poster to another. I know you are smarter than that.

I saw a certain writer at some other site whose name I wont say telling me how his strength would have be too much for Hagler or Roy. This guy who posed as a writer would spout all kinds of garbage saying how Monzon would pushed opponents around and so on.

But arent they all the same weight class? So how can anyone say Monzon is stronger than someone like Roy?
Sometimes, my friend, conventional wisdom is correct. Monzon was very strong -his contemporaries all saw this, other fighters, analysts, and trainers like Dundee who was in Napoles corner. He had that leaden presence that you may not readily see but you could assuredly feel in the ring.

Don't be so enamored by oversized pecs and deltoids, RR, serious physical strength is beyond mere muscle definition. Have you ever shook the hand of a country farmer? You get the idea.

Believe that Monzon would be the physical boss in there, even as he gets outlanded by Jones... until he starts finding that range and landing those heavy, debilitating shots.

And like someone said earlier, did not Roy handle supermiddle, lightheavyweights and even heavyweights?

I would think the natural strength of Ruiz would have posed a problem for him over the course of the bout but in fact, the speed of Roy Jones proved to be the problem for John; he couldnt solve Roy's style and neither could anyone else. Roy was always able to set the tone of the fight quickly
You contradict your own reasoning here. I thought that you were confusing effectivness with strength. Jones would outbox Ruiz all day, but he isn't a stronger man than Ruiz and he deferred that point early. And I'm convinced that Jones was on the juiced since at least Paz. Either way, the point stands.

What I would look how each man copes with the style of the other. Roy is deceptively quick for someone so muscle bound while Monzon is built strictly for long range sparring-adept at the finer points of boxing, alot of finesse and expert at tying his man up at the right time.

Forget monzon's jab tho. Roy beats him to it every time with his right lead. It's almost like facing a southpaw. Whether from long range or on the inside, it's Roy's fight. And I dont even see how Monzon can even prepare for his style becuz no body was ever successful at that style but Roy himself.

Roy is way too unconventional style Monzon will never solve, not even over 15 rounds.
Inside?? Roy was no inside fighter. Monzon would be the boss inside. And many fighters slipped Monzon's jab, but it was a set-up shot for Carlos, it's what's coming after it that is the problem.

And you neglect one key characteristic of Roy that changes the whole complexion of the fight. It's the key characteristic that many on ESB overlook in these hypotheticals with Roy. Roy wasn't looking for any more challenges than he absolutely HAD to face to maintain his stature. Roy would not be so big on facing the nightmare that was Monzon and it would show in his style. Unlike Roy, Monzon was fearless and utterly confident. He didn't give a f--- about much of anything. Roy took great care in who he chose to fight. He was WORSE than your hero Sugar Ray Leonard.... and you should know that!

In addition to the points already made:
1. Monzon takes Roy's shots. Monzon had 100 fights... never stopped.
2. Roy's can't be counted on to stand up to Monzon's shots.
3. Psychological pressure... Monzon is coming, coming, coming, and banging, banging, banging. Roy will be in retreat and reduced to potshotting from outside.

---McGrain sums it up well above. You guys overestimate MW Jones. Monzon, Hagler, Greb, and Robinson are the elite of the division... and Jones didn't have the experience to handle those 4 Titans at 24 years old.

And that's about all there is to say. No one else better vote for Jones in this *?#&#^! poll.

[duranimal]

Hat's off to Red Cobra and My2Sense they are the only ones out here with a lick of sense. The rest of you are either:

a. bedazzled by speed/power guys -or-
b. know next to nothing about Monzon.

Roy Jones had about 26 fights as a MW. He was about 25 years old when he stepped up to the Super middles and had made only one defense of his IBF title. That is not enough of a pedigree. Monzon was an established great at MW who had more than twice as many fights against superior competition. Jones whipped Hopkins and Castro. Who else? Is that experience enough to deal with one of strongest, toughest and powerful MWs who ever lived?

Jones would be in a defensive mode by about round 9. Once that happens, Jones' potshots may not be enough for him to remain vertical at the end of the bout, never mind win a decision.

This bout is over FIFTEEN ROUNDS.

Redrooster, you are dizzy to compare Jones' strength to Monzon. Jones wasn't even taking steroids as a MW... and he didn't 'fight strong' either -he was all about flash and speed. Very effective, a difficult style to cope with no doubt, but prime Monzon is not going to get beat by an underdeveloped, inexperienced Jones who never even went 15 rounds!

Monzon was very strong and if you don't know that, you should watch the films. He was a serious pressure fighter, and if you don't know that, you should watch the films.

Correct:yep Monzon would have possibly TKO Roy in the last 3 rounds if not it would have been a big UD, Roy would have had his moments but would have been got 2 by Monzon from the 8th onwards, Monzon could do everything Roy could but BETTER:bbb

[teeto]

Sometimes, my friend, conventional wisdom is correct. Monzon was very strong -his contemporaries all saw this, other fighters, analysts, and trainers like Dundee who was in Napoles corner. He had that leaden presence that you may not readily see but you could assuredly feel in the ring.

Don't be so enamored by oversized pecs and deltoids, RR, serious physical strength is beyond mere muscle definition. Have you ever shook the hand of a country farmer? You get the idea.

Believe that Monzon would be the physical boss in there, even as he gets outlanded by Jones... until he starts finding that range and landing those heavy, debilitating shots.


You contradict your own reasoning here. I thought that you were confusing effectivness with strength. Jones would outbox Ruiz all day, but he isn't a stronger man than Ruiz and he deferred that point early. And I'm convinced that Jones was on the juiced since at least Paz. Either way, the point stands.


Inside?? Roy was no inside fighter. Monzon would be the boss inside. And many fighters slipped Monzon's jab, but it was a set-up shot for Carlos, it's what's coming after it that is the problem.

And you neglect one key characteristic of Roy that changes the whole complexion of the fight. It's the key characteristic that many on ESB overlook in these hypotheticals with Roy. Roy wasn't looking for any more challenges than he absolutely HAD to face to maintain his stature. Roy would not be so big on facing the nightmare that was Monzon and it would show in his style. Unlike Roy, Monzon was fearless and utterly confident. He didn't give a f--- about much of anything. Roy took great care in who he chose to fight. He was WORSE than your hero Sugar Ray Leonard.... and you should know that!

In addition to the points already made:
1. Monzon takes Roy's shots. Monzon had 100 fights... never stopped.
2. Roy's can't be counted on to stand up to Monzon's shots.
3. Psychological pressure... Monzon is coming, coming, coming, and banging, banging, banging. Roy will be in retreat and reduced to potshotting from outside.

---McGrain sums it up well above. You guys overestimate MW Jones. Monzon, Hagler, Greb, and Robinson are the elite of the division... and Jones didn't have the experience to handle those 4 Titans at 24 years old.

And that's about all there is to say. No one else better vote for Jones in this *?#&#^! poll.
You make some good points S89.

[DINAMITA]

Monzon, Hagler, Greb, and Robinson are the elite of the division

Perhaps not on resume, but on ability that should be a five and include Bernard Hopkins IMO.

[redrooster]

Sometimes, my friend, conventional wisdom is correct. Monzon was very strong -his contemporaries all saw this, other fighters, analysts, and trainers like Dundee who was in Napoles corner. He had that leaden presence that you may not readily see but you could assuredly feel in the ring.

Don't be so enamored by oversized pecs and deltoids, RR, serious physical strength is beyond mere muscle definition. Have you ever shook the hand of a country farmer? You get the idea.

Believe that Monzon would be the physical boss in there, even as he gets outlanded by Jones... until he starts finding that range and landing those heavy, debilitating shots.


You contradict your own reasoning here. I thought that you were confusing effectivness with strength. Jones would outbox Ruiz all day, but he isn't a stronger man than Ruiz and he deferred that point early. And I'm convinced that Jones was on the juiced since at least Paz. Either way, the point stands.


Inside?? Roy was no inside fighter. Monzon would be the boss inside. And many fighters slipped Monzon's jab, but it was a set-up shot for Carlos, it's what's coming after it that is the problem.

And you neglect one key characteristic of Roy that changes the whole complexion of the fight. It's the key characteristic that many on ESB overlook in these hypotheticals with Roy. Roy wasn't looking for any more challenges than he absolutely HAD to face to maintain his stature. Roy would not be so big on facing the nightmare that was Monzon and it would show in his style. Unlike Roy, Monzon was fearless and utterly confident. He didn't give a f--- about much of anything. Roy took great care in who he chose to fight. He was WORSE than your hero Sugar Ray Leonard.... and you should know that!

In addition to the points already made:
1. Monzon takes Roy's shots. Monzon had 100 fights... never stopped.
2. Roy's can't be counted on to stand up to Monzon's shots.
3. Psychological pressure... Monzon is coming, coming, coming, and banging, banging, banging. Roy will be in retreat and reduced to potshotting from outside.

---McGrain sums it up well above. You guys overestimate MW Jones. Monzon, Hagler, Greb, and Robinson are the elite of the division... and Jones didn't have the experience to handle those 4 Titans at 24 years old.

And that's about all there is to say. No one else better vote for Jones in this *?#&#^! poll.

No need to get riled, I'll take your word for it. I am of the belief that youth many times will overcome but Monzon was fighter of the 70s. Then again, Roy was fighter of the 90s. Not Pernell, but Roy!

Monzon surely has impressive credentials as his record shows but if it came down to betting money as I like to do on big fights I'd be interested in knowing how his edge in experience compensates for the difference in speed between the two.

[Seamus]

Over 15 rounds, Monzon wins a comfortable decision. At 168, the results might be reversed. However, Monzon is the greater middleweight.

[Stonehands89]

No need to get riled, I'll take your word for it. I am of the belief that youth many times will overcome but Monzon was fighter of the 70s. Then again, Roy was fighter of the 90s. Not Pernell, but Roy!

Monzon surely has impressive credentials as his record shows but if it came down to betting money as I like to do on big fights I'd be interested in knowing how his edge in experience compensates for the difference in speed between the two.
Listen, I'd favor Roy Jones over the majority of MWs that ever lived. But not and never the Titans.

You don't seem to see that Monzon had far more than an "edge in experience" -he had 75 more fights at that weight than did Jones. He was also exceptionally strong, had a solid chin, placed his shots well, hit very hard, was relentless, applied pressure that eventually broke tougher men than 24 year old Jones down, and had serious stamina. Jones was a dynamo who hit like hell, had ultra-fast reflexes and speed, but he's not going to overcome this Titan. He had neither the experience nor the disposition to go to the hell that Monzon would bring him. Too young, too unseasoned, and it's going to take more than athleticism.

I've been known to make predictions and bets too. And I'd bet heavily on Monzon, especially if it's over 15.

[dpw417]

Roy Jones has the potential to beat Carlos Monzon...Speed at middleweight is off the charts, carried his power up to light heavyweight, difficult, unorthadox style...Everyone thinks it's heresy to give Jones a shot(?)
Jones is flash and dash, but he possessed shocking speed and the power to make an opponent go into a shell...Futhermore, he has the movement to circle away from Monzon's jab and use his left hook against Monzon when he jabs. The underated Jean Claude Bouttier did this at times with Monzon in their first fight with some success, but did not stay with it due to Monzon's pressure.
With Monzon, however, you are talking about an ATG middleweight, not a policeman, a trash collector, or a school teacher...a tough minded, life hardened individual who owned one of the longest winning streaks at 160 lbs. An ATG middleweight.... Watch how Monzon breaks Benvenuti down in their first fight, banging him behind the head with rabbit punches, slamming him in the kidneys. Angelo Dundee said that Monzon purposely thumbed Napoles during their fight in the post fight interview. This is professional boxing and these tactics would take a physical toll, and also take Jones completely out of his comfort zone, and mentally out of the fight. I think that Jones is capable of winning alot of the early rounds, but the longer the fight goes, the more momentum Monzon would gain.(IMO)
Addendum: I don't want it to sound as though Monzon's only avenue is by using roughhouse tactics, but I feel Monzon could and would do whatever it took to win the fight, whereas, Jones would not...Monzon also presents problems with his style as well.

[My2Sense]

Jones beat Hopkins anyway who is better than any MW Monzon's beat and is better than Monzon himself

Hopkins wasn't even good enough to be better than Segundo Mercado yet; how can you say he was better than Monzon or anyone he fought?

Its foolish to say Jones was simply flash/speed, he was a master of many things, imensely strong at the weight and was a very very dangerous puncher/finnisher at the weight.

What exceptional strength did he show at 160? Both Hopkins and Castro bulled him around on the inside.

destroying nearly everyone at MW and doing it far faster than Julian Jackson, Nigel Benn, Chris Eubank and James Toney, ie knocking out in 1-2 rounds men that went the full distance with the formentioned men.


His most notable opponents at 160 were Castro and Hopkins, and he didn't "destroy" either of them. He won lackluster fights in which both were able to get inside and rough him up, and Hopkins took several rounds from him.

[JonesHagler]

Roy Jones has better names on his resume than Monzon

Monzon has also faced a shitload of more bums than Roy

Roy has a better chance of knocking out Monzon then the other way around

Jones was way bigger than Monzon

Jones is stronger than Monzon

Jones is faster than Monzon

[My2Sense]

Roy has a better chance of knocking out Monzon then the other way around

Why would that be, given that Roy is the only one of the two that has shown questionable toughness/resilience in his career?

Jones was way bigger than Monzon

How is he "bigger" if they're fighting at 160?

Jones is stronger than Monzon


Who did Roy ever outmuscle at 160?

[McGrain]

I honestly think picking Jones here is craziness whatever the advantages he has. Is nobody interested in experience in boxing? Do you guys honestly think that fighters don't get better? You need massive advantages to overcome a deficit in experience of this kind. Again. Jones at MW has very little topline experience. My favourite Monzon performance is Bouttier I. At this time Monzon was something like 74-3. He also happens to be one of the best middles ever head to head. Putting Jones in with him is silly. Jones would get murdered. I'm about as confident as i've been in a pick.

[PowerPuncher]

1. Hopkins wasn't even good enough to be better than Segundo Mercado yet; how can you say he was better than Monzon or anyone he fought?

2. What exceptional strength did he show at 160? Both Hopkins and Castro bulled him around on the inside.

3. His most notable opponents at 160 were Castro and Hopkins, and he didn't "destroy" either of them. He won lackluster fights in which both were able to get inside and rough him up, and Hopkins took several rounds from him.

1. He didnt lose for 12years after Roy and drew and knocked out Mercado, Monzon has plenty of draws himself, who knows how good Mercado would have been?

2. Bullied? I think not but they were. RJJ was a physical beast at this weight,

3. Hopkins is a great, better than any Monzon opponent, that maybe took 3rounds at best.

Tate was 29-2 and went 12 with Julian Jackson, Jones blasted him in 2. There are countless opponents Jones stopped that the contempory biggest punchers of his time couldnt put away.

All these points are largely irrelevant to the fact that Jones boxing ability is above Monzons, his speed is another dimension to Monzon, he would easily outland Monzon and Monzon wouldnt be able to land himself. Jones has the ability to hit Monzon with more clean power punches than Monzon has ever taken in his career and yes Jones has the power to hurt Monzon

[PowerPuncher]

You don't have to put in an "IMO" to avoid the wrath coming your way for a dizzy post. You need to take a month off and go learn about Monzon and watch the film. Then post. Because as it is, it is clear to me that you spent 2 and a quarter minutes on youtube to get convinced of something that you went into the debate convinced of ahead a time: that Monzon is "too slow" to deal with Jones.

...
First we are subjected to some wee one bragging about Jones fighting with his hands behind his back and now we are subjected to you bringing up his disrespecting boxing by playing sem-pro basketball before a title defense. The fact is, he did both of those things against non-threats. See, when you are a talented fighter and you choose ordinary guys to look good against, you can afford to do things like this.

Show that you know the difference between style and substance.

Firstly drop the condescending attitude, I've seen plenty of Monzon to pass judgement, you can't dispute the weaknesses I bring up about it. I never brought up Jones knocking out Devalle with his hands behind his back so don't address that point to me.

I brought up the basketball match to prove something, Jones had stamina in abudance, the most ignorant assumption on here is 15round era boxers would automatically be better than 12round era boxers over 15rounds, not if the 12round boxer has better stamina and has been kicking their ass for the duration of the fight they wont

And those none threats Jones fought were still top10 ranked boxers werent they?

Simple thing is Jones is unlike anyone Monzon has ever faced, a complete different boxing beast, Jones would be landing his best shots and hitting without being hit. If you think 'being strong' 'making it a rought fight' are going to affect this than you don't know boxing.

[red cobra]

Monzon may very well have been outboxed and even hurt at times against a middleweight Jones, but he was far cagier than ANYONE Jones ever fought, including a green Hopkins or Toney. He would have done what he did so well, and thats to tie up and shut Jones gradually, and wear him down. Monzons right would find Jone's chin by round 14 and Jones, as we know, never had a sturdy set of whiskers. No one was fast enough or had enough pop to exploit Jone's chin, but Monzon would have. Jones would have either been stopped in 14 or 15, or would have made it to the final bell only to lose a decision. Monzon was a great fighter, and greater than anyone Jones ever fought.

[zadfrak]

I sure don't like the Jones habit/hand placement of dangling his left hand at his kneecap against this guy for an entire fight. Or a Ray Robinson either for that matter. That type of defense and hand placement is fine against 2nd tier opposition but not against the elites. Jones hardly had A+ results whenever he did face top opposition and just where are the ko's in those bouts anyway?

[red cobra]

I'm aware as everyone is, that Tarver and Johnson found Jone's chin...I'm of course referring to when he was a middleweight. Monzon was a proven master of navigating the 15 round distance, and Jones never fought 15...Monzon would have closed the gap with Jones in those deep sea waters of rounds 13 thru 15.

[redrooster]

I honestly think picking Jones here is craziness whatever the advantages he has. Is nobody interested in experience in boxing? Do you guys honestly think that fighters don't get better? You need massive advantages to overcome a deficit in experience of this kind. Again. Jones at MW has very little topline experience. My favourite Monzon performance is Bouttier I. At this time Monzon was something like 74-3. He also happens to be one of the best middles ever head to head. Putting Jones in with him is silly. Jones would get murdered. I'm about as confident as i've been in a pick.

But you know this fight has no chance to ever come off so of course you're confident. Fact is, I never saw anyone come close to figuring the style of Jones by boxing him. Boxing him just makes things worse for yourself. You got to take it too him like Griffin or Tarver. And Monzon with his skinny legs and arms just wasnt built for that. this is common sense! This is a styles fight in which Monzon loses every time

[Stonehands89]

Firstly drop the condescending attitude, I've seen plenty of Monzon to pass judgement, you can't dispute the weaknesses I bring up about it. I never brought up Jones knocking out Devalle with his hands behind his back so don't address that point to me.

I brought up the basketball match to prove something, Jones had stamina in abudance, the most ignorant assumption on here is 15round era boxers would automatically be better than 12round era boxers over 15rounds, not if the 12round boxer has better stamina and has been kicking their ass for the duration of the fight they wont

And those none threats Jones fought were still top10 ranked boxers werent they?

Simple thing is Jones is unlike anyone Monzon has ever faced, a complete different boxing beast, Jones would be landing his best shots and hitting without being hit. If you think 'being strong' 'making it a rought fight' are going to affect this than you don't know boxing.
You are correct in seeing a condescending attitude. I reserve the right to attack juvenile arguments in such a way. It's called quality control.

Guys who fought 15 rounds regularly can be assumed to have an advantage over guys who never went beyond 12. If you don't see that, then I can't help you. Monzon used to smoke and barely train and still managed to go 15 without a problem. The guy was a physical phenomenon -although not in the same way as Jones.

Jones fought plenty of non-threats who were ranked. So? How blind has this adoration made you?

You have a nice time indulging in your fantasy that Jones would be kicking Monzon's ass and hitting without being hit. Say hello to the pink elephants.

[McGrain]

But you know this fight has no chance to ever come off so of course you're confident. Fact is, I never saw anyone come close to figuring the style of Jones by boxing him. Boxing him just makes things worse for yourself. You got to take it too him like Griffin or Tarver. And Monzon with his skinny legs and arms just wasnt built for that. this is common sense! This is a styles fight in which Monzon loses every time

Jones is a favourite because Monzon has skinny arms?









































:lol:

[redrooster]

I'm aware as everyone is, that Tarver and Johnson found Jone's chin...I'm of course referring to when he was a middleweight. Monzon was a proven master of navigating the 15 round distance, and Jones never fought 15...Monzon would have closed the gap with Jones in those deep sea waters of rounds 13 thru 15.

Are you talking about Reggie Johnson back when Jones was in the midst of his peak? Reggie was childsplay for Roy. Another cutie southpaw trying to outslick RJ. And going 15 is no miraculous feat for world class fighters. You act like Roy never went past 4 rounds. Since Roy would be dishing out 99% of the punishment, it would be Monzon struggling to last out the distance.

I like the hare in all these hare vs. tortoise matchups

[redrooster]

Jones is a favourite because Monzon has skinny arms?



Face facts McGrain, he's outgunned in this one. he doesnt have the tools to cope with him from the outside where Roy would kill him and on the inside, how is Carlos going to handle someone that can deliver 6 left hooks within a second? I've seen him do it.

In my opinion I see Roy droping him with those pin point one twos to the chin. He may even stop him with one of his lethal body shots. I just dont see any concievable way for Monzon to deal with someone far faster and that is sharper and more dangerous.

[McGrain]

In my opinion I see Roy droping him with those pin point one twos to the chin. He may even stop him with one of his lethal body shots. I just dont see any concievable way for Monzon to deal with someone far faster and that is sharper and more dangerous.

Monzon has timing accuracy and punch resistance enough to get this job done. You guys making out like there is some massive style advantage are way, way off. Monzon will counter Roy's magical 0.1 second (:lol:) hooking combinations by countering him to the chin with a punch.

Monzon by knockout, after 4-8 entertaining rounds.

[PowerPuncher]

Monzon was fearless and utterly confident. He didn't give a f--- about much of anything. Roy took great care in who he chose to fight. He was WORSE than your hero Sugar Ray Leonard.... and you should know that!.

Lets compare resumes:

Leonard: Hagler, Hearns (twice), Duran (3times), Benitez, Kalule,
Jones: Toney, Hopkins, McCallum (past prime), Virgil Hill (past prime), Tarver, Ruiz
Monzon: Benvenuti (x2), Griffith (twice past prime smaller), Napoles (ex-lightweight past prime) , Valdez (x2), Briscoe

Monzon's resume isn't as good imo when we compare top wins (at least not as good as Rays) and doesn't have a great at their prime weight, the other 2 do.

[redrooster]

Monzon has timing accuracy and punch resistance enough to get this job done. You guys making out like there is some massive style advantage are way, way off. Monzon will counter Roy's magical 0.1 second (:lol:) hooking combinations by countering him to the chin with a punch.

Monzon by knockout, after 4-8 entertaining rounds.

You got to be kidding! You have to be saying this out of admiration because i cant think of any other reason.

Monzon moves in slow motion compared with Jones so you can forget about landing with accuracy and will in fact be the one catching. because like i said, when it comes to boxing, Roy will beat him to it every time. In half the time it take for Monzon to uncoil his paw of a left jab, Roy will step in and deliver a stacatto of hooks. Like I told you, he is a finesse fighter. You want to learn how to box, study Monzon or Pernell.

But Roy is unique throughout all of history. There has never been anyone like him ever. You cant go in there and try to box him or methodically break him down. You must kill the man or knock him out cold and in order to do that you must contiually push the fight until you get it.

Griffin had some success but he started to wear out and as soon as he began slowing, Roy was quick to take over. I still give Roy and A+ for that performance because of how well take the play away from Montell

Roy is very underrated in the delivery department and let's face it, he isnt very well liked here. I seen people how they mention Pernell as fighter of the 90s but in 1999 in the Ring magazine fan poll, it was Roy according to the fans that excelled in nearly every department.

[redrooster]

Lets compare resumes:

Leonard: Hagler, Hearns (twice), Duran (3times), Benitez, Kalule,
Jones: Toney, Hopkins, McCallum (past prime), Virgil Hill (past prime), Tarver, Ruiz
Monzon: Benvenuti (x2), Griffith (twice past prime smaller), Napoles (ex-lightweight past prime) , Valdez (x2), Briscoe

Monzon's resume isn't as good imo (at least not as good as Rays) and doesn't have a great at their prime weight, the other 2 do.

Stonehands wins this argument. No one matches Monzon's level of experience. 7 straight years of championship experience against the best Europe has to offer, the best Mexico has to offer, the best Italy has to offer, the best out of Columbia, not to mention the hotbed of fighters from Argentina.

Leonard? He's fortunate to even be mentioned in the same breath as Jones or Monzon

[PowerPuncher]

1. You are correct in seeing a condescending attitude. I reserve the right to attack juvenile arguments in such a way. It's called quality control.

2. Guys who fought 15 rounds regularly can be assumed to have an advantage over guys who never went beyond 12. If you don't see that, then I can't help you. Monzon used to smoke and barely train and still managed to go 15 without a problem. The guy was a physical phenomenon -although not in the same way as Jones.

3. Jones fought plenty of non-threats who were ranked. So? How blind has this adoration made you?

4. You have a nice time indulging in your fantasy that Jones would be kicking Monzon's ass and hitting without being hit. Say hello to the pink elephants.

1. You've made zero contribution to a worthwhile argument other than saying 'Monzon was stronger and fought 15rounders'

2. So stamina plays no part in 15 rounders? As Frazier said when asked what he'd do if he didn't

3. The only reason they were none threats was because Jones was operating on a superior plane. Toney and Hopkins are still better wins than anything on Monzons resume. And Hill and McCallum are as good as old midgets like Griffith and Napoles

4. He'd get hit as much as he did against more skilled fighters like Toney and Hopkins, ie not much

[red cobra]

Monzon has timing accuracy and punch resistance enough to get this job done. You guys making out like there is some massive style advantage are way, way off. Monzon will counter Roy's magical 0.1 second (:lol:) hooking combinations by countering him to the chin with a punch.

Monzon by knockout, after 4-8 entertaining rounds.
You may be right McGrain, Monzon may have taken Jones out of there in half the rounds that I said he would.

[PowerPuncher]

Willie Pep supposedly won a round without throwing a punch, Monzon will go 1 better and KO Jones without landing a punch :lol:

[red cobra]

Are you talking about Reggie Johnson back when Jones was in the midst of his peak? Reggie was childsplay for Roy. Another cutie southpaw trying to outslick RJ. And going 15 is no miraculous feat for world class fighters. You act like Roy never went past 4 rounds. Since Roy would be dishing out 99% of the punishment, it would be Monzon struggling to last out the distance.

I like the hare in all these hare vs. tortoise matchups
No, I was making it clear that Tarver and Johnson both found Jone's chin eventually, and I wasn't referring to the other Johnson....Reggie. The 2 ko's were scored when Jones was a lightheavy, I realize, and not at middleweight, and up until then no one was able to find Jone's chin..none of the middles, supermiddles, or any lightheavies...I'm convinced that Monzon would have found that chin...tortoise and hare my ass...and we know what happened whenever Jone's chin was found...the glass shatters.

[PowerPuncher]

No, I was making it clear that Tarver and Johnson both found Jone's chin eventually, and I wasn't referring to the other Johnson....Reggie. The 2 ko's were scored when Jones was a lightheavy, I realize, and not at middleweight, and up until then no one was able to find Jone's chin..none of the middles, supermiddles, or any lightheavies...I'm convinced that Monzon would have found that chin...tortoise and hare my ass...and we know what happened whenever Jone's chin was found...the glass shatters.

That was a pretty much shot Jones, Roy took a big flush painful right from Ruiz and Ruiz was 230lbs and put Holyfield down with a right. He also took shots from Hopkins and Griffin.

Having said that Roy's defensive ability will be as much as a problem for Monzon as anyone else

[McGrain]

You may be right McGrain, Monzon may have taken Jones out of there in half the rounds that I said he would.

Or Jones could last longer, like you've said, but It'd be a confident pick whether over 12 or 15. Be tempted to bet the farm if 23-0 Jones is matched with 75-3-8 (or whatever) Monzon over 15 rounds.

[ChrisPontius]

I think this one will very much resemble Taylor-Chavez. Jones will throw and land flashy looking combinations, while Monzon will land bone crushing but soft looking shots. The Argentinian has a cast iron jaw and very subtle defence. I can see Jones slowing down around the 8th while Monzon connects more and more often, ending matters with a right hand not dissimilar to the one he fell Benvenuti like a tree with, in their epic first bout.


Incidentally, i think very highly of Roy Jones, and Monzon is the only middleweight who i'd pick over him. A lot of people under-rate Monzon because of his, at first sight, going-through-the-motions style. But whenever he stepped up, he proved that under the seemingly rusted hood, he had a well-oiled, big V-12 engine that never stopped running until victory was his.

[McGrain]

Chris, you have Jones beating Hagler?

[Stonehands89]

1. You've made zero contribution to a worthwhile argument other than saying 'Monzon was stronger and fought 15rounders'

2. So stamina plays no part in 15 rounders? As Frazier said when asked what he'd do if he didn't

3. The only reason they were none threats was because Jones was operating on a superior plane. Toney and Hopkins are still better wins than anything on Monzons resume. And Hill and McCallum are as good as old midgets like Griffith and Napoles

4. He'd get hit as much as he did against more skilled fighters like Toney and Hopkins, ie not much
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Robbi]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

:blood

[ChrisPontius]

Chris, you have Jones beating Hagler?

Yes i do. I think Jones would be too good all-round for Hagler. I realize that during his prime, he was a lot more skilled than what we saw in his biggest, last fights, but still. Plus, he had a tendency to choose stupid strategies in big fights. I'm referring to the Leonard and Duran bouts. Against Hearns there wasn't much to choose; if Jones slugs with him, he'll probably end up the same way. Over 15 rounds, Hagler would have a better chance, but unlike Monzon i wouldn't favor him. I'll say more later if you want, a Louis Theroux documentary is starting at the moment. Laters!

[JonesHagler]

nvm

[dpw417]

Alot of huffing and puffing on this thread...and it is an intrigiung match-up. Both sides certainly have their rabid contingents. There won't be a proven answer, but why not give a objective account of how their styles, strengths, weaknesses, and tendencies might play out.
Everyone has an opinion...Let's see some objective (key word there) analysis by both sides. I'd like to see what each side has got to offer.

[he grant]

Prime Roy Jones beats him clean ... Monzon too slow to catch him .. Carlos never fought anything like that Roy. Jones might even drop him a few times ... The Tarver and Johnson losses have greatly diminished Roy's stock and many forget what an exceptional fighter he was in his prime .. at 160 he was near unbeatable ... Hagler would lose as well .. no disrespect for Marvin or Carlos , both of whom were exceptional fighters that I love but styles make fights and both these guys would be decisioned... too much speed and power ... it's not like they could simply run Jones down. At 160 he likely hit harder than either fighter as well ..

[My2Sense]

Monzon has plenty of draws himself, ...

...and he wasn't considered great yet either, at the time he had those draws.

... who knows how good Mercado would have been?

Anyone who watched his career unfold. And the answer is, not much.

Bullied? I think not but they were.

No, they weren't. Roy was clearly bulled around on the inside when they went to clinches.

Hopkins is a great, ...

Key word there is is. At the time he fought Roy, he was not considered great yet. He was still only on the way up and at least a couple years shy of his prime, like Roy was.

... that maybe took 3rounds at best.

No, he took at least 4.


All these points are largely irrelevant to the fact that Jones boxing ability is above Monzons, his speed is another dimension to Monzon, he would easily outland Monzon and Monzon wouldnt be able to land himself.

You could've said the same about Benvenuti compared to Monzon, but yet it was Benvenuti who could barely land on Monzon while Monzon teed off on him.

Jones has the ability to hit Monzon with more clean power punches than Monzon has ever taken in his career ...

No he doesn't, because Monzon is a far better technician and was great at shutting down speed, while Jones has plenty of holes in his own technique for Monzon to exploit.

[redrooster]

No, I was making it clear that Tarver and Johnson both found Jone's chin eventually, and I wasn't referring to the other Johnson....Reggie. The 2 ko's were scored when Jones was a lightheavy, I realize, and not at middleweight, and up until then no one was able to find Jone's chin..none of the middles, supermiddles, or any lightheavies...I'm convinced that Monzon would have found that chin...tortoise and hare my ass...and we know what happened whenever Jone's chin was found...the glass shatters.

But he's got to close the distance to do it. How come I dont see Roy buckle with either James Toney or X?

I been reading all the responses, most of them hoping against hope that Monzon is going to walk thru Roy the way Ray Leonard was just going to walk thru Terry Norris.

I see someone here pulling out the old line Monzon's strength is too much for Roy. That didnt work. And if anything, ROy is stronger than Monzon. YOu cant just tell me that Roy's muscles are all for show :lol:

Then someone say Roy can't possibly last all 15.

Then someone else say Monzon's rabbit punching tactics will SOMEHOW over the course of 15 will wear him down all the while forgetting what Roy's shots are going to do to him.

Next we see Monzon was great at shutting down speed. In what fight? WHo did he meet that compares with Roy?

Monzon dont even have an inside game. You cant box him and all Monzon knows is how to box and finesse. He's going to run into right hands to the head and left hooks to the ribs, that's what's going to happen the whole night. When Monzon try to counter, Roy will be out of range and hit him from the blind side. That is how the entire fight will go. Believe me, I know.

It's about styles like they say. You cant expect Monzon to be the type to initiate chest to chest warfare. Give me someone like Hagler, who I've seen do it sucessfully or Cerdan or Walker, guys who excel at trench warfare but nobody's beating Roy by boxing

[KOTF]

Up

[BENNY BLANCO]

Monzon was great at neutralizing speed, a fact he demonstrated against Benvenuti twice. IMO he'd do the same to Jones, and then jab and pressure his way to a clear decision or (more likely) late stoppage. But who ever neutralized Jones speed and won against him?....Nobody did, I can understand you saying that if it had been done to Jones before but it never did.

[Sweet Pea]

Roy Jones has better names on his resume than Monzon

Monzon has also faced a shitload of more bums than Roy

Roy has a better chance of knocking out Monzon then the other way around

Jones was way bigger than Monzon

Jones is stronger than Monzon

Jones is faster than MonzonAnd you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about.

[Wu-Gambino]

Fuck this... I said Jones by decision before but I'm starting to second guess myself looking at some of the great arguments made in this thread. It's just as easy to say that we don't know how Monzon's strengths would play out against an immense athletic talent such as Jones as it is to say that we don't know how Roy would deal with the precision and pressure of a ring general like Monzon. Carlos truly was an iceman in (and out of) the ring and would not be afraid to press Jones harder than any man before him has. The problem with Roy and matching him up against ATGs is that (unlike with a flawed athlete like Ali) we don't know how he'd deal with being pushed to the limit and being forced to the brink of defeat by a truly formidable opponent such as Monzon. Would he adapt, grit his teeth, and storm back for the win? We don't know because he never did (and never really had to in his prime). It's this same factor which limits guys like Tyson in these hypothetical matchups.

[Bad_Intentions]

Monzon UD12.

[DRmullen2]

a draw!

[GPater11093]

But who ever neutralized Jones speed and won against him?....Nobody did, I can understand you saying that if it had been done to Jones before but it never did.

Who did Monzon fail to nuetralise their speed.

[round15]

Prime for prime at middleweight, Monzon beats Jones over fifteen rounds I'd say 9-6 or 10-5. Monzon was one of the best at neutralizing speed and tying up the opponents arms coming in. Proper clinching and countering legally is a lost art that Monzon certainly used effectively.

[JonesHagler]

Jones is on a whole nother level of speed, that Monzon had never dealt with before....Plus Jones throws punches from any angle he wants to at any time he wants

[PetethePrince]

Damn what a close poll.