Who had the more impressive wins Calzaghe or Hatton?

['Ben']

The thread has probably been done before but a recent discussion has got me curious to see what people generally think about it?

[Dan684]

Probably Calzaghe but the difference between the way the 2 are treated is beyond comparison. Calzaghe is way overated and since his loss to Pacquiao Hatton is being written off as a chump which is very unfair

[williams7383]

Calzaghe beat Lacy and Kessler at their best, who were both legitimate world champions. Hatton beat good fighters on their way down, and was lucky against Collazo IMO

[El Cepillo]

Calzaghe.

He got the decision against a great fighter in Hopkins.

Hatton got brutally KTFO by the two great fighters he fought.

Beneath that, Kessler & Lacy are better than Castillo & Malignaggi.

[Axl_Nose]

Both resumes are absolutely shocking for guys who are held up as world class fighters ..

Hatton has Tzsyu, Mayweather and Pac. Losing 2 out of 3 .... Vince phillips, Oliveira, Pendleton, Tackie and Castillo were just names, shadows of previously good fighters ..

As for Calzaghe, he operated in the worst division in boxing. 168 is a stepping stone division, anyone who stays there is avoiding the risks up at 175 .... Before Lacy he fought absolutely nobodies. Only Joe Calzaghe could claim that Tocker Pudwell and Will 'Kidfire' Mcintyre are credible opponents .. He must get credit for his victories over Lacy and Kessler although these 2 are hardly ATG's. Finally Joe got brave and stepped up to 175 to face an old Hopkins and a finished Jones.

Both resumes are very disappointing for guys at the top of they're respective divisions but thats because the Brit fight fans keep buying ridiculous PPV offerings from ******. If nobody bought these fights or shelled out for tickets to these ridiculous mismatches then ****** would have to have a rethink and throw his fighters in with more competitive fighters. Calzaghe v Manfredo was unforgiveable !!
Calzaghe has the better wins, but Hatton has fought the better fighters. Nobody on Joe's resume compares to Mayweather and Pacquiao.
So its 50 - 50 for me .. Both resumes are shit .. Nigel Benn's resume is far better than these 2 guys ..

[Dan684]

Yeah not disputing that but since he's been beat all of his wins have just been written off, he had some very good wins, the Malignaggi one was a good win, as was the Urango one. Tsyzu was predicted as the favourite and he took on the best in the world in their absolute prime twice (Admittedly coming short twice).

Calzaghe on the other hand had good wins in Kessler and Lacy neither of which will be remembered as greats and the two greats he fought would have beaten them in their primes and one nearly did at the ripe old age of 43.

Both are similiar in careers IMO. Hatton, now underated and Calzaghe overated. if Calzaghe had fought Hopkins and Jones 5-8 years ago he would have had a 2 next to his 44 wins along with Hattons 2

[GazOC]

Calzaghe.

He got the decision against a great fighter in Hopkins.

Hatton got brutally KTFO by the two great fighters he fought.

Beneath that, Kessler & Lacy are better than Castillo & Malignaggi.

That reasoning sidesteps Hatton beating Zoo though (like a guy above says Hatton was lucky to beat Collazo but makes no mention of Calzaghe - Reid) ....but I agree, Calzaghe has the better record.

[El Cepillo]

That reasoning sidesteps Hatton beating Zoo though (like a guy above says Hatton was lucky to beat Collazo but makes no mention of Calzaghe - Reid) ....but I agree, Calzaghe has the better record.

Is there anyway for me to gracefully admit that I totally forgot about Hatton beating Tszyu? :lol:

[GazOC]

Both resumes are absolutely shocking for guys who are held up as world class fighters ..



Can't agree with that for either fighter. Both have holes and missed opportunities in their records but to say they are "shocking" is way off the mark.

[GazOC]

Is there anyway for me to gracefully admit that I totally forgot about Hatton beating Tszyu? :lol:

Start swearing and say the win doesn't count because Dave Paris is a cunt??;)

[djoc175]

Joe Calzaghe

[El Cepillo]

Start swearing and say the win doesn't count because Dave Paris is a cunt??;)

:lol:

[Dan684]

Axl, you totally missed the fact that Hatton beat Urango, Collazo and Malignaggi ???? Admittedly got a bit fortunate with the Collazo decision but still you just missed 3 very good wins out of your reasoning ?

Whats worse.....

Beating Tsyzu, Over the hill Castillo, and losing to the 2 greatest fighters of the past decade or....

Beating a green Lacy, Kessler, 43 yr old Hopkins and decrepid Jones who could walk and punch after round 2 ?

Neither in my opinion. Both got good resumes not great.

[GazOC]

TBH I've always thought Calzaghe doesn't get enough credit for the likes of Woodhall, Reid, Brewer, Mitchell. I know a couple were coming off loses and were not in their prime but they are decent, solid defences for champion to make, what lets Calzaghe down is that too many Ashira, Thornberry, Pudwell types in with them. I think with just 1 or 2 real quality names in JCs record around that time (pre Lacy) would look a hell of a lot better

[El Cepillo]

Gaz makes a good point there. Some solid names surrounded by dross.
Far from adding anything to Calzaghe's record, the Rick Thornberry's of this world actually detract from the overall quality. Because all the defences you could describe as 'credible', are punctuated by nonsense fights against lowly opposition.

[SouthpawSlayer]

i think hatton has the better resume over the long run whereas with big names calzaghe takes it with lacy and kessler

hatton fought and beat a lot more b level fighters whereas calzaghe had a few good wins against a level fighters but too many against c level fighters, tough one to call but edging calzaghe

[TFFP]

Calzaghe was unfortunate his division was like it was, quality wise as well as politics bullshit. How you supposed to get Sven Ottke and Markus Beyer in the ring in a fair scenario? If he'd unified the division earlier, just the name Sven Ottke would have made his resume look a bit tighter.

I believe he should have fought Dawson as well to make his weight jumping legacy look that bit more solid. He obviously didn't have the hunger for that fight, against an impressive young fighter, though obviously not a very attractive one...

Still some way above Hatton though.

[GazOC]

I think Calzaghe would be better thought of if, instead of Pudwell, Thornberry etc he'd just hadn't fought anyone on those dates and ended up with a 41-0 kind of record...

I just ignore those wins and look and decent guys he did fight and beat around that time rather than focus on some of the poorer opposition.

[El Cepillo]

Calzaghe was unfortunate his division was like it was, quality wise as well as politics bullshit. How you supposed to get Sven Ottke and Markus Beyer in the ring in a fair scenario? If he'd unified the division earlier, just the name Sven Ottke would have made his resume look a bit tighter.

I believe he should have fought Dawson as well to make his weight jumping legacy look that bit more solid. He obviously didn't have the hunger for that fight, against an impressive young fighter, though obviously not a very attractive one...

Still some way above Hatton though.

TFFP, pre-2005, what are your thoughts on the respective level of competition that both Hatton and Calzaghe fought?

[TFFP]

It doesn't really make a difference, does it? It doesn't really add or subtract anything to fight those kinds of fighter.

By the way, the much maligned Pudwill was a replacement.

[El Cepillo]

I think Calzaghe would be better thought of if, instead of Pudwell, Thornberry etc he'd just hadn't fought anyone on those dates and ended up with a 41-0 kind of record...

I just ignore those wins and look and decent guys he did fight and beat around that time rather than focus on some of the poorer opposition.

Yep, exactly what I was getting at. I know its only really a superficial issue really, but having that dross on your recent record really skews perceptions.

[GazOC]

It doesn't really make a difference, does it? It doesn't really add or subtract anything to fight those kinds of fighter.

By the way, the much maligned Pudwill was a replacement.

Thats what I'm saying (IMHO) Pudwell, Thornberry etc don't actually make Calzaghes record any worse but they are frequently brought up in this way. "Wasted fights" is probably the most accurate way to describe them when looking back at Calzaghes record.

Yep, I know Pudwell was a sub.:good

[GazOC]

Yep, exactly what I was getting at. I know its only really a superficial issue really, but having that dross on your recent record really skews perceptions.


Exactly.:good

[TFFP]

My thoughts...

I think Calzaghe had a better education at domestic level. Delaney, Eubank (he's better than 'domestic level' but he's a Brit), Reid and Woodhall. All before 2000. I think Calzaghe had done things well up to that point. Hatton fought Magee and Thaxton, but if I put it kindly 'avoided' Witter, which is kind of like Calzaghe ducking Reid as the naturally talented fighter.

Between 2001-2005 he really seemed to stagante with the Veit rematches, Pudwill, Jimenez, Mkrtcyhan (although he looked dangerous on paper at the time). Only really Brewer and Mitchell were passable opponents during this time frame. At which point Hatton is in the WBU era, and obviously his opponents are of varying quality. He fought Tackie, Vilches and Phillips who'd seen better years but were solid educational fights, mixed in with crap like Pedersen and Stephen Smith.

I think if you match the names up Calzaghe fought Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Mitchell, Brewer in this period and Hatton's best are the WBU fights I mention above. Calzaghe fought better fighters, but over a much longer time period having started in the early 90's to Hatton in the late 90's.

[slip&counter]

calzaghe obviously had the better wins. However if you look at their respective skills and what they had in their war chest, i think hatton although his best win coming against an inactive and old Kosta can be much more proud of his CV, Calzaghe maybe the best SWM of all time, able to do things only a few fighters can get away with and his resume doesn't match his skills, not entirely his fault of course

[TFFP]

Calzaghe's career is very much a slow burner if you look at the dates involded, its quite startling. It started off brightly, very nearly burnt out in the middle, before Lacy came along and re-lit the candle. It was just about to explode towards the end...then he quit. I have some regrets about that because he was still fighting at a very high level. Physically he had it in the tank.

[Guy]

Calzaghe's resume doesn't match his skills


The truth mate.:good

Where Hatton excelled considering his limits, defensively especially.

[djoc175]

Can it be said that Calzaghe underacheived?Or is that ignorant?

[GazOC]

Thats a good point S&C, I think theres fewer "if onlys" in Hattons than Calzaghes.

At the end of their careers we know how good Hatton was from who he wasn't able to beat and who he was able to beat. I'm not sure we can say that about Calzaghe...

[El Cepillo]

I was willing Calzaghe to fight on. I wanted to believe. Then he retired.

I'll never understand a lot of issues surrounding Calzaghe and his career, the mans mentality is a mystery to me.

[GazOC]

Can it be said that Calzaghe underacheived?Or is that ignorant?

I think he did underachieve but not in a massive way, as TFFP says the division as polically messy in Calzaghes prime but, at the same time, Calzaghe seemed quite happy with the situation as well.

[TFFP]

Of course he did. Most people do in the modern era, there aren't many fighters out there that fight all comers, or even a good percentage of them.

He could have fought, and been a heavy favourite over Sven Ottke, Markus Beyer, Glen Johnson (tho it didn't make much sense considering Glen's record at 168, but in retrospect...), Kelly Pavlik before Bernard, and Chad Dawson. Those names could have really firmed up his resume, and that is not even pie in the sky stuff but names you would expect him to beat.

That is just leaving out names that would require him to move up in weight, and Bernard Hopkins who he clearly tried to fight much earlier.

[Guy]

At the end of their careers we know how good Hatton was from who he wasn't able to beat and who he was able to beat. I'm not sure we can say that about Calzaghe...


Perfectly put :nod

[GazOC]

I was willing Calzaghe to fight on. I wanted to believe. Then he retired.

I'll never understand a lot of issues surrounding Calzaghe and his career, the mans mentality is a mystery to me.


I think he mentally retired after Kessler, certainly after Hopkins. The last fights were pension fights IMHO.

[Mr Butt]

calzaghe

[El Cepillo]

Can it be said that Calzaghe underacheived?Or is that ignorant?

I would say that his resume doesn't match his skillset.

Look at 168 now, if he had stuck around for another year or two things could have been a lot different.

Or even proved himself a LH, by beating Dawson. Hell, even Tarver wouldn't have been a bad name to have on the record at that weight. Same applies to Johnson.

That's the part I don't understand, he reigns supreme in a crappy division for most of his career, then when the big fights finally come along, he retires after dipping his toe in the water.

A crisis of confidence perhaps?

[djoc175]

Of course he did. Most people do in the modern era, there aren't many fighters out there that fight all comers, or even a good percentage of them.

He could have fought, and been a heavy favourite over Sven Ottke, Markus Beyer, Glen Johnson (tho it didn't make much sense considering Glen's record at 168, but in retrospect...), Kelly Pavlik before Bernard, and Chad Dawson. Those names could have really firmed up his resume, and that is not even pie in the sky stuff but names you would expect him to beat.

That is just leaving out names that would require him to move up in weight, and Bernard Hopkins who he clearly tried to fight much earlier.
Add Jermain Taylor to that list too but he priced himself if I remember asking for around £5m

[El Cepillo]

I think he mentally retired after Kessler, certainly after Hopkins. The last fights were pension fights IMHO.

I think your right. And I also think its a sad indicement of the man. But you know, I've spent a lot of time defending Hamed's right to fuck off into the sunset when he did, so I suppose Calzaghe should be afforded the same curtesy. I think we could have all done without the Jones debacle though.

[djoc175]

I would say that his resume doesn't match his skillset.

Look at 168 now, if he had stuck around for another year or two things could have been a lot different.

Or even proved himself a LH, by beating Dawson. Hell, even Tarver wouldn't have been a bad name to have on the record at that weight. Same applies to Johnson.

That's the part I don't understand, he reigns supreme in a crappy division for most of his career, then when the big fights finally come along, he retires after dipping his toe in the water.

A crisis of confidence perhaps?
Fair points,motivation seems to be his main problem for me,but it is as you say a mystery

[slip&counter]

Can it be said that Calzaghe underacheived?Or is that ignorant?

depends how you look at it and how highly you rate him

i rate calzaghe very highly, i think he should've been doing things he did maybe 10 years earlier, some would say he was a victim of circumstance, hopkins pulled out of a fight very late for example because he was having problems with don king

look at the time between eubank and lacy thats his prime.

[GazOC]

I think your right. And I also think its a sad indicement of the man. But you know, I've spent a lot of time defending Hamed's right to fuck off into the sunset when he did, so I suppose Calzaghe should be afforded the same curtesy. I think we could have all done without the Jones debacle though.

Yep, we say we want the best for boxers so we should really applaud when one has the cheek to leave the sport with his brains, looks, health and bank balance intact.

[El Cepillo]

Yep, we say we want the best for boxers so we should really applaud when one has the cheek to leave the sport with his brains, looks, health and bank balance intact.

I suppose its better than the flipside of the coin. The side with Evander Holyfield's head on it. :D

[Guy]

What a great thread, well thought out comments and no trolling/blind hate.

[GazOC]

I suppose its better than the flipside of the coin. The side with Evander Holyfield's head on it. :D


I watched Holyfield-Qawi a couple of weeks ago and in the build up they had an interview with Evander where he said he wanted to win a world title, earn a bit cash and retire at 27 to run a car dealership!!!:patsch

[slip&counter]

4 kings

Jones
Toney
Calzaghe
Hopkins

what a waste of an era :-(

[slip&counter]

What a great thread, well thought out comments and no trolling/blind hate.

welcome to the Brit forum :thumbsup

[El Cepillo]

I watched Holyfield-Qawi a couple of weeks ago and in the build up they had an interview with Evander where he said he wanted to win a world title, earn a bit cash and retire at 27 to run a car dealership!!!:patsch

You couldn't make that shit up :lol:

I'd buy a car from him though.

[djoc175]

depends how you look at it and how highly you rate him

i rate calzaghe very highly, i think he should've been doing things he did maybe 10 years earlier, some would say he was a victim of circumstance, hopkins pulled out of a fight very late for example because he was having problems with don king

look at the time between eubank and lacy thats his prime.
What evidence is there to suggest that he was past prime post Lacy?

['Ben']

What a great thread, well thought out comments and no trolling/blind hate.


:good

[djoc175]

I heard Holyfield talking about retirement after his first Bowe fight too!Some 17 years later..

['Ben']

What evidence is there to suggest that he was past prime post Lacy?


I think many people beleive that he was in his prime before Lacy because of his power back then was much greater and would really bring it to his opponents throughout the whole 12 rounds of a fight.... if it lasted that long.
Plus it's only natural to assume that without thinking about it much that when a fighter is younger then it makes them automaticaly better.... in actual fact I think that Calzaghe after Lacy was better in the sense that he used his head more and adapted to his brittle hands breaking all the time by using his boxing brain and natural ability alot more.... rather than getting sucked into a brawl like he would do earlier in his career.

[slip&counter]

What evidence is there to suggest that he was past prime post Lacy?

perhaps little tangible evidence, but with his style (high workrate, fighting off the cuff,) physically (notable injuries) and more importantly mentally i think he was prime before lacy, performances post lacy just showed how great he was and better op of course but i think he took longer to adapt and figure guys out

[NO MAS]

Calzaghe for me.... he showed his class against Kessler when it was not going his way in the early rounds... adapated his fight plan to plan b and won... pure class against a quality operator like Kessler.... :yep

['Ben']

Calzaghe for me.... he showed his class against Kessler when it was not going his way in the early rounds... adapated his fight plan to plan b and won... pure class against a quality operator like Kessler.... :yep


Well this is the thing..... if Calzaghe continued to trade with Kessler, like he probably would of done in his earlier years as champion would he still of won?:huh

[stephen]

hatton he went for 2 p4p kings and lost calzaghe fought 2 legends at the end of there career and won every one knows if he fought them in there prime he would have been knocked out

['Ben']

Well this is the thing..... if Calzaghe continued to trade with Kessler, like he probably would of done in his earlier years as champion would he still of won?:huh


Actually thining about it, I'd go with Calzaghe on points if it was in Cardiff.... but then again Calzaghe used to attack the body well in his earlier years and Kessler looked on the verge of being stopped in round nine I think, from a body blow. Calzaghe may have even stopped him?

[GazOC]

hatton he went for 2 p4p kings and lost calzaghe fought 2 legends at the end of there career and won every one knows if he fought them in there prime he would have been knocked out

I'm not sure Prime Calzaghe vs Prime Hopkins at 168 is a "given".

[BremnerBomber]

Well we know where Hatton rates because he took on 4 top 10 p4p rated fighters in his career

I'm not to sure about Joe

what If Hatton didn't face PBF & Manny and instead fought Bradley & Kotelnik and won what would ppl have thought

[El Cepillo]

hatton he went for 2 p4p kings and lost calzaghe fought 2 legends at the end of there career and won every one knows if he fought them in there prime he would have been knocked out

I'd be willing to bet that any version of B-HOP doesn't stop Calzaghe at any stage in his career. I wouldn't rule out a schooling though.

['Ben']

I'm not sure Prime Calzaghe vs Prime Hopkins at 168 is a "given".


I've got the feeling Joe would of beaten Hopkins at 168lb to be honest.... Jones is a different matter though.

['Ben']

I'd be willing to bet that any version of B-HOP doesn't stop Calzaghe at any stage in his career. I wouldn't rule out a schooling though.


I don't think for one second Hopkins would of knocled Calzaghe out. I don't even think Jones would of (although still would of won more than likely) Who knows though, you can never know for sure can you.

[GazOC]

I've got the feeling Joe would of beaten Hopkins at 168lb to be honest.... Jones is a different matter though.


I think RJJ beats Calzaghe, maybe by stoppage but Hopkins new at 168 after fighting welterweights at 160 could well have problems with JC.

[stephen]

the only reson calzaghe had stayed undefeated is that frank ****** picked the right fights at the right time for calzaghe ****** did that all of calzaghe career

[slip&counter]

no one of his era beats roy jones, he made a fight against the most skilled fighter of his generation the most one sided "competitive" title fight

Hopkins never beats prime JC and RJJ, they do exactly what he struggles with, (workrate, speed, unconventional)

[NO MAS]

Well this is the thing..... if Calzaghe continued to trade with Kessler, like he probably would of done in his earlier years as champion would he still of won?:huh

Probably not and that is why he showed his class by taking the fight his own direction rather than fighting Kesslers fight and rolling the dice IMO :bbb

[dan-b]

I think RJJ beats Calzaghe, maybe by stoppage but Hopkins new at 168 after fighting welterweights at 160 could well have problems with JC.

:nono Admittedly he did fight some former welterweights but he also fought every middleweight contender going. The fights prior to the unification series were all solid 160 men.

Anyway, some great comments on this thread. I agree with people with regards to the 'filler' in Calzaghe's career. There were a lot of politics in the division but was enough to overcome those politics? It's debatable.

Hatton was prepared to take the greater risks but then the financial rewards were there for him in a way that they weren't for Joe. As HOYA-UK alluded to, Calzaghe was something of an enigma mentally so who really knows how he felt about a lot of these things.

[dan-b]

no one of his era beats roy jones, he made a fight against the most skilled fighter of his generation the most one sided "competitive" title fight

Hopkins never beats prime JC and RJJ, they do exactly what he struggles with, (workrate, speed, unconventional)

He almost beat him when they did fight. The young Hopkins was a buzzsaw of a fighter who definitely would not have struggled with the workrate. Watch the first Echols fight for an example of what I'm talking about. The Johnson fight is a good one to watch too.

[Farmboxer]

Calzaghe!

['Ben']

:nono Admittedly he did fight some former welterweights but he also fought every middleweight contender going. The fights prior to the unification series were all solid 160 men.

Anyway, some great comments on this thread. I agree with people with regards to the 'filler' in Calzaghe's career. There were a lot of politics in the division but was enough to overcome those politics? It's debatable.

Hatton was prepared to take the greater risks but then the financial rewards were there for him in a way that they weren't for Joe. As HOYA-UK alluded to, Calzaghe was something of an enigma mentally so who really knows how he felt about a lot of these things.



It's not fair the way that Hopkins gets criticised for for fighting blown up welterweights by the same people that have Marvin Hagler as being such a great when he did exactly the same thing as him.... in that his most famous wins were against blown up welters..... Duran, Hearns and he never even beat Leonard. Hagler beat all the real top middleweight contenders around, and so did Hopkins.... along with having more defences world his titles aswell lets not forget.

[GazOC]

Yeah, it was as unfair of me to post that statement (I'd been on the Carling!!) but I do think its fair to say that Hopkins best defences were against guys coming up from a 147 and the genuine middleweights he did defend against were a very average bunch (not Hopkins fault, he beat the guys that were around at the time).

[dan-b]

Yeah, it was as unfair of me to post that statement (I'd been on the Carling!!) but I do think its fair to say that Hopkins best defences were against guys coming up from a 147 and the genuine middleweights he did defend against were a very average bunch (not Hopkins fault, he beat the guys that were around at the time).

Johnson wasn't average but I take your point. The difference between Hopkins' and Calzaghe's reigns at 160 and 168 respectively were that Hopkins did come through the politics and won, and defended, the unified title. He also didn't have an equivalent of Beyer and Ottke missing from his resume. Up until the Taylor loss he was the clear king of his division. Calzaghe was the best of his division but cleaning it out was a culmination of his career there as opposed to an ongoing thing.

[dan-b]

It's not fair the way that Hopkins gets criticised for for fighting blown up welterweights by the same people that have Marvin Hagler as being such a great when he did exactly the same thing as him.... in that his most famous wins were against blown up welters..... Duran, Hearns and he never even beat Leonard. Hagler beat all the real top middleweight contenders around, and so did Hopkins.... along with having more defences world his titles aswell lets not forget.

I suppose the main difference between those two scenarios is that Trinidad and De La Hoya are not as good as Hearns and Ray Leonard. I totally take your point though and the Trinidad fight especially was historically important for boxing. Great fight as well!

[radab]

Calzaghe - Kessler, Hopkin, Jones, Eubank, Lacy


thimply the betht

['Ben']

Johnson wasn't average but I take your point. The difference between Hopkins' and Calzaghe's reigns at 160 and 168 respectively were that Hopkins did come through the politics and won, and defended, the unified title. He also didn't have an equivalent of Beyer and Ottke missing from his resume. Up until the Taylor loss he was the clear king of his division. Calzaghe was the best of his division but cleaning it out was a culmination of his career there as opposed to an ongoing thing.


Lets be fair to Joe though, Beyer and Ottke are typical German based fighters who won their biggest fights by high way robberies.... who were not really blood and guts warriors if we're honest, and were not ever interested in fighting Calzaghe, when to be fair he probably would of had early nights with them.... particularly Beyer.:verysad

[dan-b]

Lets be fair to Joe though, Beyer and Ottke are typical German based fighters who won their biggest fights by high way robberies.... who were not really blood and guts warriors if we're honest, and were not ever interested in fighting Calzaghe, when to be fair he probably would of had early nights with them.... particularly Beyer.:verysad

Yup, but I just feel Calzaghe allowed himself to be avoidable if you see what I mean? An obscure WBO beltholder, no matter how skilled, is fairly easy to ignore if one should choose to do so.

['Ben']

Calzaghe - Kessler, Hopkin, Jones, Eubank, Lacy


thimply the betht


I think you should take Jones off that list.... that was a joke fight. Many people would say the same about Hopkins too but I actually think a younger Hopkins would of been a little easier to beat than the one that Joe fought.

[Jeff Young]

calzaghe vs hatton head-to-head carear wise?

joe was the better fighter

ricky did more for boxing as awhole

resume wise is about even, and you can make a argument for either man....

joe has the more impressive names, but once you exam each fight and the circumstances his resume is just decent...

now for ricky, you have guys with high rankings....malginaggi was ranked number 1 contender, urango was ranked highly, castillo was in the top 10 p4p when they fought.....tszyu had just come off a sensational KO of mitchell and then fought hatton.....and then ricky has the 2 L's aginst floyd and manny.....

I think its about even, and ricky has a case his resume is better....once you look at the circumstances of each fight....

['Ben']

Castillo WAS NOT in the top ten P4P when Hatton beat him. Hatton said he was but he really wasn't. That's a fact.

[Jeff Young]

Castillo WAS NOT in the top ten P4P when Hatton beat him. Hatton said he was but he really wasn't. That's a fact.

maybe that was the case, castillo was ranked number 1 contender at 140....but had declined......

['Ben']

maybe that was the case, castillo was ranked number 1 contender at 140....but had declined......


No worries, but I just remember at the time being irritated by the fact that Hatton kept lying about it all the time.... along with repeating the same old jokes about two nans eating sandwiches in the front row of his big fights and how his mum looks like Shrek.:verysad

[GazOC]

Castillo WAS NOT in the top ten P4P when Hatton beat him. Hatton said he was but he really wasn't. That's a fact.

At the risk of fucking up a very good thread I'm pretty sure JLC was number 8 on the Rings P4P list when he fought Hatton.

[Jeff Young]

No worries, but I just remember at the time being irritated by the fact that Hatton kept lying about it all the time.... along with repeating the same old jokes about two nans eating sandwiches in the front row of his big fights and how his mum looks like Shrek.:verysad

if ricky wasnt a fighter, he is the type of guy that would be the annoying prick at the pub, that you would like to beat up....

i was reading ring magazine during the hype to pacquiao/hatton....and there is a quote from nasim richardson, that says....hatton is the type of guy that will follow you out to the parking lot annoying you, looking for a fight....i think thats a accurate statement

['Ben']

At the risk of fucking up a very good thread I'm pretty sure JLC was number 8 on the Rings P4P list when he fought Hatton.


That's exactly what Hatton used to say.:fire

['Ben']

if ricky wasnt a fighter, he is the type of guy that would be the annoying prick at the pub, that you would like to beat up....

i was reading ring magazine during the hype to pacquiao/hatton....and there is a quote from nasim richardson, that says....hatton is the type of guy that will follow you out to the parking lot annoying you, looking for a fight....i think thats a accurate statement



:lol::lol::lol:

[GazOC]

opps!

[radab]

I think you should take Jones off that list.... that was a joke fight. Many people would say the same about Hopkins too but I actually think a younger Hopkins would of been a little easier to beat than the one that Joe fought.





agree with Jones

also agree with Hopkin - he was a ridiculously hard fight at the time


get on tha lounge Ben and check out the 3 best and 3 worst posters thread

['Ben']

opps!


Did you just get rid of your Ring listings for 2006? I was just about to say if I'm wrong I'll publically humiliate myself. They fought June 23rd 2007 I beleive.

['Ben']

agree with Jones

also agree with Hopkin - he was a ridiculously hard fight at the time


get on tha lounge Ben and check out the 3 best and 3 worst posters thread


Addicted to lounge again I see? I'll have a butchers.

[GazOC]

Yeah, I misread the year.....old age and too concerned with either having a shit and then going for the papers or whether to get the papers first and then worry about the shit!!!

[trotter]

I am under the impression JLC was p4p top ten when they fought too, could be wrong but that's my recollection

[GazOC]

I found one from the end of 2006 and he was number 9, obviously he could have slipped in the following 6 months but I think its fair to say he was at least "up there" when he fought Hatton.

Thats not to say that P4P lists mean much in the first place.....

["TKO"]

if ricky wasnt a fighter, he is the type of guy that would be the annoying prick at the pub, that you would like to beat up....

i was reading ring magazine during the hype to pacquiao/hatton....and there is a quote from nasim richardson, that says....hatton is the type of guy that will follow you out to the parking lot annoying you, looking for a fight....i think thats a accurate statement

At the risk of ruining the thread (as Gaz said) this is complete bollocks. Hatton is one of the nicest guys in the sport, I have never heard of him being involved in any type of outside the ring altercation or throwing his weight around!

[dan-b]

I found one from the end of 2006 and he was number 9, obviously he could have slipped in the following 6 months but I think its fair to say he was at least "up there" when he fought Hatton.

Thats not to say that P4P lists mean much in the first place.....

I agree. I think it's absurd how people will debate, in depth, who deserves to be 9, for example, on a P4P list. Does it really fucking matter?:lol:

[GazOC]

I agree. I think it's absurd how people will debate, in depth, who deserves to be 9, for example, on a P4P list. Does it really fucking matter?:lol:


Not to me mate, I think its original purpose when all it asked was "Weight aside, who is the best boxer in the world?" was fine but now people are debating who is number 8 or number 9 when they can't even agree on the ranking criteria!!!

['Ben']

I found one from the end of 2006 and he was number 9, obviously he could have slipped in the following 6 months but I think its fair to say he was at least "up there" when he fought Hatton.

Thats not to say that P4P lists mean much in the first place.....


Hatton kept on saying he was 7 or 8 P4P.... but I kept looking it up and nowhere was he rated that highly.... I swear!

He got took off the list when Hatton beat Urango and he had a poor showing n the undercad.

I am addicted to the P4P debate though.... I can't help it, it's a disease!

[El Cepillo]

Castillo WAS NOT in the top ten P4P when Hatton beat him. Hatton said he was but he really wasn't. That's a fact.

Actually, The Ring had Castillo at #9 when Hatton fought him.

So he was.

Although if you can prove otherwise....

['Ben']

Not to me mate, I think its original purpose when all it asked was "Weight aside, who is the best boxer in the world?" was fine but now people are debating who is number 8 or number 9 when they can't even agree on the ranking criteria!!!


Yaeh, I agree with that statemant.:good

[GazOC]

Hatton kept on saying he was 7 or 8 P4P.... but I kept looking it up and nowhere was he rated that highly.... I swear!

He got took off the list when Hatton beat Urango and he had a poor showing n the undercad.

I am addicted to the P4P debate though.... I can't help it, it's a disease!

If I'm bored enough to get into a P4P debate I take it as a sure sign that I should get off the Internet and mow the lawn or fuck off to the pub for an hour (preferably the latter!!);)

['Ben']

Actually, The Ring had Castillo at #9 when Hatton fought him.

So he was.


You might be right about him being at number nine.... but he wasn't what Hatton said he was that's for sure!

I swear I remember him being off the list altogether though.... I'm gonna chack it up later.... going out now.:good

[El Cepillo]

You might be right about him being at number nine.... but he wasn't what Hatton said he was that's for sure!

I swear I remember him being off the list altogether though.... I'm gonna chack it up later.... going out now.:good

I'm not 100% certain, but I rememeber fairly recently being shown the Ring P4P rankings at the time, and Castillo was #9. It seems to be a widely held belief that Castillo was P4P elite at the time, and haven't seen anything to suggest otherwise, although its possible I suppose.

[GazOC]

He's number 9 at the end of 2006 but it is possible he slipped after that fight on the Hatton-Urango card when he looked unimpressive edging past that guy who's name totally escapes me!!

[ishy]

Ngoudjo (sp)?

[GazOC]

Yep, thats the fella...:good

[trotter]

You might be right about him being at number nine.... but he wasn't what Hatton said he was that's for sure!

I swear I remember him being off the list altogether though.... I'm gonna chack it up later.... going out now.:good

Thing is Ben, and no disrespect intended, but why would you make such a big deal out of it anyway?

Hatton is a fighter not a politician. He says things that are sometimes inaccurate and keeps on repeating them, I doubt he knows any better or even really cares about the fine detail

People really do get hung up on the semantics of every Hatton statement around here

[GazOC]

People really do get hung up on the semantics of every Hatton statement around here

Yep, theres a list showing JLC at number 9 P4P at the end of 2006. If he dropped out of it in the 6 months before he fought Hatton in June 2007 then that hardly makes Hatton the biggest bullshitter in the world....;)

['Ben']

Thing is Ben, and no disrespect intended, but why would you make such a big deal out of it anyway?

Hatton is a fighter not a politician. He says things that are sometimes inaccurate and keeps on repeating them, I doubt he knows any better or even really cares about the fine detail

People really do get hung up on the semantics of every Hatton statement around here


I'm not getting hung up on it at all. It's just at the TIME it was really bothering me when Hatton was saying Castillo is just outside the top five over and over again..... I still wanted Hatton to win, and when he did I celebrated in the late night sports bar I was in at west end. It was a good night too.

I hope nobody thinks I'm a Hatton hater or anything because I'm really not. I met him before and he semmed like a good fella..... had a bit of a laugh with him too..... although he seemed a bit lost without 'the nannies eating sandwiches' in the front row gags.:lol:

['Ben']

Yep, theres a list showing JLC at number 9 P4P at the end of 2006. If he dropped out of it in the 6 months before he fought Hatton in June 2007 then that hardly makes Hatton the biggest bullshitter in the world....;)


You have to admit even when you wanted him to win before a fight there would always be some inaccurate truth or little white lie (so it seemed) in the build up. I'd always not look that much into it and then I'd keep hearing him say it over and over and over.... it starts to grind on you.

With the Pacquiao fight it was the constant P4P talk all the time that did it for me.... although that was just as much sky's fault for selling it like that I suppose.

As I said before it don't bother me now anyway.

[Boro chris]

hatton he went for 2 p4p kings and lost calzaghe fought 2 legends at the end of there career and won every one knows if he fought them in there prime he would have been knocked out

No, 'every one' dose not know that they'd ko him. Don't presume to speak for me stephen me lad, thank you very much.
Anywhoo.....Calzaghes record is superior imo.

[Boro chris]

Calzaghe!


Concise and to the point as always.

[widdy]

aye prob JC,although im not a big fan,he has lacy,who was beating all put in front of him,and touted as the next big thing(but who turned out a bit ordinary)and kessler,then again he was made to look ordinary and stupid against a jones,who was more washed up than all hattons top ten fighters put togeather,maybe when kessler comes out of his comfort zone we will find out he is just another german robotic static machine as well,fuck it changed me mind,hatton has the best record

[TFFP]

aye prob JC,although im not a big fan,he has lacy,who was beating all put in front of him,and touted as the next big thing(but who turned out a bit ordinary)and kessler,then again he was made to look ordinary and stupid against a jones,who was more washed up than all hattons top ten fighters put togeather,maybe when kessler comes out of his comfort zone we will find out he is just another german robotic static machine as well,fuck it changed me mind,hatton has the best record
There are so many things wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.

He was made to look ordinary and stupid by Jones, by being put down by a forearm to the chin, and then winning every single round after round 2, whilst showboating for most of it.

Kessler is Danish.

You are an idiot.

[Betty Swollocks]

Thing is Ben, and no disrespect intended, but why would you make such a big deal out of it anyway?

Hatton is a fighter not a politician. He says things that are sometimes inaccurate and keeps on repeating them, I doubt he knows any better or even really cares about the fine detail

People really do get hung up on the semantics of every Hatton statement around here


ask yourself why, it's because he talks way more bollocks than anyone else, and it's all designed to boost himself up, the guy is a flat-out conman.

The worst one about the Castillo fight was Wicky kept saying 'Jose is one of the best p4p fighters of all time'. Now THAT is fucking bollocks, and Wicky damn well knew it....and anyone with a functioning brain knew it too. Most of us said before that fight that Castillo was done.

on the question, Calzaghe shites all over Hatton as a fighter, and despite the Welshman wasting a lot of his career away, his best wins are still way better than Hatton's best wins.

[kosaros]

Betty is back!

We have been talking about you...

[djoc175]

We've been expecting you Betty...

[Dan684]

Here we fucking go......

[djoc175]

Hatton is pondlife.The fact that he is friends with halfwits like Michael Gomez,Joey Barton,Wayne Rooney and the Gallaghers speaks volumes...

..right Betty?

[Dan684]

DJOC, nearly correct pal but leave Rooney the fuck out of this !!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)

[Betty Swollocks]

i'd say the fact he's been spied in the VIP areas at Old Trafford with United players speaks volumes too, hardly befitting a guy who claims to be down-to-earth City fan.

I saw some chat in another thread, Flint got banned for another one of his bizarre threads, this one putting the boot into me?

[djoc175]

DJOC, nearly correct pal but leave Rooney the fuck out of this !!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)
why are you a red?

[Dan684]

Coz i'm a red and I like him :-)

[djoc175]

i'd say the fact he's been spied in the VIP areas at Old Trafford with United players speaks volumes too, hardly befitting a guy who claims to be down-to-earth City fan.


besides,Calzaghe didn't wear a Cardiff badge to win over the success starved Cardiff fans.The same cannot be said about Hatton and his blue moon bullshit.tell me something...in the build up to recent fights we see good luck messages for Ricky.They're from the likes of Rio Ferdinand,Wayne Rooney,Sir Alex,Eamon Holmes(a Utd fan):think

[widdy]

There are so many things wrong with this post I don't even know where to start.

He was made to look ordinary and stupid by Jones, by being put down by a forearm to the chin, and then winning every single round after round 2, whilst showboating for most of it.

Kessler is Danish.

You are an idiot.

ok so he is danish sorry i dident mean to offend you.cunt,who cares,get him outa his comfort zone,lets see what he is made of,last time he did against someone decent,he got beat,his records no where near as good as hattons,at least he traveled and beat em when he traveled.mind you no point in agueing with a kessler bumboy nuthugger,who is always right,you my fucking wife mate,she thinks she always right as well:rofl
the jones fight,he looked a twat,showboating,he looked a twat,winning every round,he looked a twat,never seen a fight,more like a spar between 2 oldtimers:bbb

[djoc175]

Great player,but pondlife all the same

['Ben']

The thread was doing so well too.... and here we go....:-(

['Ben']

Oh well then.:D

[djoc175]

The thread was doing so well too.... and here we go....:-(
:mad:you had 8 pages of reasoned debate,don't get greedy especially when Hatton is in the thread title

[Dan684]

Widdy agreed.
I do not like Calzaghe but that isn't why I agree. I just cannot remember a single fight in my life when a man has dominated from rounds 3-12 and looked such a twat/shit boxer in doing so.
Calzaghe dominated Lacy with a boxing school. No arguments there.
He dominated Jones (a man who couldn't walk and punch after round 2 was out) and looked like the biggest cock in the world doing so. IMO after round 11 he realised he is a slapping bitch and couldn't put him away so he decided to showboat in the 12th to make it look like he was carrying Roy. On a sidenote what on earth was that boxing/showboating/whatever the fuck it was in round 12 ? I saw him doing the same in shadow boxing on the BBC the day before the fight and thought "What the fuck is he doing"???

[Betty Swollocks]

ok so he is danish sorry i dident mean to offend you.cunt,who cares,get him outa his comfort zone,lets see what he is made of,last time he did against someone decent,he got beat,his records no where near as good as hattons,at least he traveled and beat em when he traveled.mind you no point in agueing with a kessler bumboy nuthugger,who is always right,you my fucking wife mate,she thinks she always right as well:rofl
the jones fight,he looked a twat,showboating,he looked a twat,winning every round,he looked a twat,never seen a fight,more like a spar between 2 oldtimers:bbb

fuck me you really are thick as pigshit.

['Ben']

:mad:you had 8 pages of reasoned debate,don't get greedy especially when Hatton is in the thread title


Yeah, not the end of the world I suppose. And it was Hatton and Calzaghe in the title so it's even more reason to be impressed I suppose.

[GazOC]

The thread was doing so well too.... and here we go....:-(

Its a fucking shame, it happens time and time again. Djoc should know better than to shit stir (sorry mate but you're out of line) and Betty should actually try and CONTRIBUTE something (he does know his boxing beleive it or not!!) to the forum instead of being other peoples clown.

This thead shows everything thats right with the ESB Brit forum and (unfortuneatly) everything thats wrong with it as well.

Sorry to rant but its a real pisser when great threads like this get fucked up by a couple of idiots.

[TFFP]

ok so he is danish sorry i dident mean to offend you.cunt,who cares,get him outa his comfort zone,lets see what he is made of,last time he did against someone decent,he got beat,his records no where near as good as hattons,at least he traveled and beat em when he traveled.mind you no point in agueing with a kessler bumboy nuthugger,who is always right,you my fucking wife mate,she thinks she always right as well:rofl
the jones fight,he looked a twat,showboating,he looked a twat,winning every round,he looked a twat,never seen a fight,more like a spar between 2 oldtimers:bbb
Why do you type like a 15 yr old chav? I'd rather I was talking to your misses, she probably knows more about boxing, and hell she might produce a coherent post now and again.

[Dan684]

Ha Ha ^

[kosaros]

Its a fucking shame, it happens time and time again. Djoc should know better than to shit stir (sorry mate but you're out of line) and Betty should actually try and CONTRIBUTE something (he does know his boxing beleive it or not!!) to the forum instead of being other peoples clown.

This thead shows everything thats right with the ESB Brit forum and (unfortuneatly) everything thats wrong with it as well.

Sorry to rant but its a real pisser when great threads like this get fucked up by a couple of idiots.

Its normally the Hatton threads as well and that is why I steer clear of them because I know its only going to result in some sort of unwarranted hate towards Hatton.

['Ben']

Its normally the Hatton threads as well and that is why I steer clear of them because I know its only going to result in some sort of unwarranted hate towards Hatton.


This one went all right though.... you have to expect some shit along the way but it took pages of good discussions before it started. The British forum seems the best without doubt from what I've noticed, even though I ain't been here that long either aswell.

[widdy]

Why do you type like a 15 yr old chav? I'd rather I was talking to your misses, she probably knows more about boxing, and hell she might produce a coherent post now and again.

well, she is better looking and got bigger tits.

sorry if my grammer is not up to your or anyone elses likeing,don't give a fuck old boy.

my boxing knowledge is fine,from experiance,from boxing meself,training with pro's,sparring hundreds of rounds with good pro's or am;s,watch boxing from a early age,from ali to hatton,good jouneymen like peter buckley and brian coleman,fuck it can't be arsed agueing with a kessler nuthugging bumboy.i thought u were allright mate,till u called me a idiot for calling your loverboy,and betty fuck off and buy glitter a drink and talk about the good old days

["TKO"]

fuck me you really are thick as pigshit.

Hello Mr. kettle, I'm pot...

[TFFP]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Dan684]

That Kettle's brown, fucking racist :-)

[BremnerBomber]

ask yourself why, it's because he talks way more bollocks than anyone else, and it's all designed to boost himself up, the guy is a flat-out conman.

The worst one about the Castillo fight was Wicky kept saying 'Jose is one of the best p4p fighters of all time'. Now THAT is fucking bollocks, and Wicky damn well knew it....and anyone with a functioning brain knew it too. Most of us said before that fight that Castillo was done.

on the question, Calzaghe shites all over Hatton as a fighter, and despite the Welshman wasting a lot of his career away, his best wins are still way better than Hatton's best wins.


No one and I mean NO ONE said JLC was shot before the fight. infact i'm sure he was the slight favourite or it was 50/50 betting.... only after the fight was he called shot

[Betty Swollocks]

No one and I mean NO ONE said JLC was shot before the fight. infact i'm sure he was the slight favourite or it was 50/50 betting.... only after the fight was he called shot

utter bollocks.
Hatton was 4/7 favourite everywhere.
and plenty of us were calling Castillo washed-up, it was pretty obvious in the Ngoujou fight that so many years as a pro and that many tough fights, not least the first Chico fight, had taken their toll. Sorry pal but you're talking shite.

[djoc175]

I would have to agree with that,Castillo stunk the place out vs Ngoudjo before Hatton had the chance to with his holding.Besides,it must pretty hard when the only reason you're fighting is to pay off compensation owed to another party

[Betty Swollocks]

I would have to agree with that,Castillo stunk the place out vs Ngoudjo before Hatton had the chance to with his holding.Besides,it must pretty hard when the only reason you're fighting is to pay off compensation owed to another party


that's right, see his trouble at the scales in the Chico rematch and another fight after that. The guy's heart was not in the boxing anymore, he was semi-retired and in need of the money. He just wanted an early way out against Hatton and found it in the form of a standard Hatton bodyshot, the punch that has not troubled an opponent since Stephen Smith or something like that.
Anyone who paid to see that card with Castillo-Ngoujoun and Wicky-Urango must've felt like slitting their wrists afterwards

['Ben']

utter bollocks.
Hatton was 4/7 favourite everywhere.
and plenty of us were calling Castillo washed-up, it was pretty obvious in the Ngoujou fight that so many years as a pro and that many tough fights, not least the first Chico fight, had taken their toll. Sorry pal but you're talking shite.


Before the fight I did actually beleive that Castillo was shot, and couldn't see Hatton losing to him judging by his last fight on the Hatton-Urango undercard.

[GazOC]

I guess we must have some very wealthy posters on ESB the way everyone obviously cleared up at the bookies on the "sure things" Hatton-Zoo and Hatton-JLC??;)

["TKO"]

No one and I mean NO ONE said JLC was shot before the fight. infact i'm sure he was the slight favourite or it was 50/50 betting.... only after the fight was he called shot

Nah, he was about 13/8, narrow underdog with Hatton 4/6 or something. Nobody claimed Castillo was shot at the time the fight was made, he was coming off his convincing flattening of Corrales in their rematch. There were one or two who started claiming he was shot after the fight with Ngoudjo (as if it's totally unthinkable that a young, unbeaten contender might give a world champ in his first fight at the weight a tough time). However, it was mainly the major Hatton haters on here (you all know the ones). The guys who had been made to look completely stupid in picking Tszyu to demolish Hatton inside a couple of rounds and then trying to revise history to claim that Tszyu was "shot". It was basically a case of get the excuses in early in case Hatton wins big again, which he did.

[Matt1986]

Love both fighters but for me it's ricky he was willing to go to America to fight the best and his 2 loses were against 2 future atg's he caught the best in there hayday where as joes best wins against bhop and Roy jones jr were against old fighters

[Dan684]

Garsson, what Calzaghe-Eubank fight and Calzaghe-Hopkins fights did you watch >>>

['Ben']

Love both fighters but for me it's ricky he was willing to go to America to fight the best and his 2 loses were against 2 future atg's he caught the best in there hayday where as joes best wins against bhop and Roy jones jr were against old fighters


I personally think that Calzaghe's wins against Kessler and Hopkins were more impressive wins than any of Hatton's victories.

Hatton may of went on to fight Mayweather and Pacquiao.... but he LOST badly! If he was able to get a points loss to them I would understand but he was knocked out!

Hopkins may have been old for a fighter but he was and still is one of THE best fighters on the planet! Infact I'd go as far to say that Calzaghe's victory over Hopkins at that stage of his career would of been harder than fighting the Hopkins of the nintees.... simply because B-Hop wouldn't of made the fight into a akward spoiling match..... and as Hopkins proved in the Pavlik fight where he worked the entire twelve rounds of the fight and destroyed him that physically he wasn't that much past his prime either!

[BremnerBomber]

Why is a points loss better than getting KO'd ????

Hatton could have run away from PBF all night and lose 12 - 0 Would you really have given him more credit losing that way than at least trying but getting KO'd

[Matt1986]

Why is a points loss better than getting KO'd ????

Hatton could have run away from PBF all night and lose 12 - 0 Would you really have given him more credit losing that way than at least trying but getting KO'd

Well said like a true warrior went out on his shield hatton faught the best in there prime

[JonOli]

Would a win over JMM change things?

[JonOli]

Well we know where Hatton rates because he took on 4 top 10 p4p rated fighters in his career

I'm not to sure about Joe

what If Hatton didn't face PBF & Manny and instead fought Bradley & Kotelnik and won what would ppl have thought


He'd be 47-0 and no doubt the press would unjustifiably be banging on about Marciano.

[essexboy]

Calzaghe.

He got the decision against a great fighter in Hopkins.

Hatton got brutally KTFO by the two great fighters he fought.

Beneath that, Kessler & Lacy are better than Castillo & Malignaggi.

Im not too sure about that although its easier to say that since Kessler's beating at the hands of Ward. I honestly think Hatton has better wins but Calzaghe was a better boxer and a sadly wasted talent.

[Utter1]

Both resumes are absolutely shocking for guys who are held up as world class fighters ..

Hatton has Tzsyu, Mayweather and Pac. Losing 2 out of 3 .... Vince phillips, Oliveira, Pendleton, Tackie and Castillo were just names, shadows of previously good fighters ..

As for Calzaghe, he operated in the worst division in boxing. 168 is a stepping stone division, anyone who stays there is avoiding the risks up at 175 .... Before Lacy he fought absolutely nobodies. Only Joe Calzaghe could claim that Tocker Pudwell and Will 'Kidfire' Mcintyre are credible opponents .. He must get credit for his victories over Lacy and Kessler although these 2 are hardly ATG's. Finally Joe got brave and stepped up to 175 to face an old Hopkins and a finished Jones.

Both resumes are very disappointing for guys at the top of they're respective divisions but thats because the Brit fight fans keep buying ridiculous PPV offerings from ******. If nobody bought these fights or shelled out for tickets to these ridiculous mismatches then ****** would have to have a rethink and throw his fighters in with more competitive fighters. Calzaghe v Manfredo was unforgiveable !!
Calzaghe has the better wins, but Hatton has fought the better fighters. Nobody on Joe's resume compares to Mayweather and Pacquiao.
So its 50 - 50 for me .. Both resumes are shit .. Nigel Benn's resume is far better than these 2 guys ..


Spot on--

All time greats are Henry Armstrong, Pacman, P. Whitaker, SS Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Hagler, SR Robinson, Ali, Joe Louis, Roy Jones jnr, James Toney, prime Tyson, Lennox Lewis, N. Hamed, C. Monzon, B. Hopkins, E. Holyfield, B. Foster just to name a few.

[Utter1]

He'd be 47-0 and no doubt the press would unjustifiably be banging on about Marciano.


Exactly although im not sure Hatton beats T. Bradley the fella looks like a good little fighter.

[simmmo]

Hatton: Kostya, Castillo. End of story

[Will]

Both resumes are absolutely shocking for guys who are held up as world class fighters ..

Hatton has Tzsyu, Mayweather and Pac. Losing 2 out of 3 .... Vince phillips, Oliveira, Pendleton, Tackie and Castillo were just names, shadows of previously good fighters ..

As for Calzaghe, he operated in the worst division in boxing. 168 is a stepping stone division, anyone who stays there is avoiding the risks up at 175 .... Before Lacy he fought absolutely nobodies. Only Joe Calzaghe could claim that Tocker Pudwell and Will 'Kidfire' Mcintyre are credible opponents .. He must get credit for his victories over Lacy and Kessler although these 2 are hardly ATG's. Finally Joe got brave and stepped up to 175 to face an old Hopkins and a finished Jones.

Both resumes are very disappointing for guys at the top of they're respective divisions but thats because the Brit fight fans keep buying ridiculous PPV offerings from ******. If nobody bought these fights or shelled out for tickets to these ridiculous mismatches then ****** would have to have a rethink and throw his fighters in with more competitive fighters. Calzaghe v Manfredo was unforgiveable !!
Calzaghe has the better wins, but Hatton has fought the better fighters. Nobody on Joe's resume compares to Mayweather and Pacquiao.
So its 50 - 50 for me .. Both resumes are shit .. Nigel Benn's resume is far better than these 2 guys ..

Hopkins jumped straight to LHW because he didn't want to fight the SMW guys!

[DOM5153]

Hatton: Kostya, Castillo. End of story

Hopkins, Lacy, Kessler, Reid

[GazOC]

Its getting interesting now with Lacys stock having fallen, Kesslers ability being second guessed (rightly or wrongly) after the Ward fight while Hattons comfortable wins over Urango and Paulie both continue to look better and better as those 2 keep beating world class 140lbers.

[El Cepillo]

Calzaghe is a better fighter, and had a better career.

But I'd probably take making Tszyu quit over Split Decisioning a 43 year old B-Hop, when it comes to the best victory either of them had.

[simmmo]

Hopkins, Lacy, Kessler, Reid

hopkins > 40 years old... the rest... who are they?

[themacallan]

calzaghe, but both have shite all over their records.