View Full Version : Junior Witter
What's your opinions on Witter.
I'm a big fan so i will probably be very biased. Anyone give me a run down on what you think of him. Not looking for the typical "He's boring". Just a good honest summary of him.
GazOC
07-10-2009, 07:05 PM
I think being seen as "boring" impacted his career so much thats its hard not to mention it. It stopped him getting the big fights and forcing a fight with Hatton.
The performance against Zab, although understandable for young fighter coming in as a substitute, really affected what fights were open to him where the American networks were concerned for the rest of his career.
As a fighter I think he has a decent dig, a little too lazy and too content to just win rather that be a crowd pleaser.
Sorry if this sounds negative, I've no axe to grind agianst the guy, but I think a bit more "devil" in his work would have paid dividends.
stephen
07-10-2009, 07:05 PM
he is a fighter that dosnt have the best style but is still a good fighter and sometimes blows hot and cold he should have beat bradley and if he gets a rematch he will
kosaros
07-10-2009, 07:15 PM
He is a very good technical boxer who should reclaim his title and push on for a rematch against Bradley. I am with you LHL (aka the minority) and I am fan of Witter's although he can be frustrating to watch (Bradley), but can provide some great performances (Harris).
I think being seen as "boring" impacted his career so much thats its hard not to mention it. It stopped him getting the big fights and forcing a fight with Hatton.
The performance against Zab, although understandable for young fighter coming in as a substitute, really affected what fights were open to him where the American networks were concerned for the rest of his career.
As a fighter I think he has a decent dig, a little too lazy and too content to just win rather that be a crowd pleaser.
Sorry if this sounds negative, I've no axe to grind agianst the guy, but I think a bit more "devil" in his work would have paid dividends.
Nicely put Gaz sometimes I think he could easily finish some fights a bit early. If he was a bit more active i think he would have beat Bradley.
I thought he hindered his career by chasing the Hatton fight rather than just getting his own stuff done.
Anyone know why he waited so long after the N'Dou fight to get his chance at the WBC title or who was the champ at the time.
He is a very good technical boxer who should reclaim his title and push on for a rematch against Bradley. I am with you LHL (aka the minority) and I am fan of Witter's although he can be frustrating to watch (Bradley), but can provide some great performances (Harris).
When i started watching boxing i couldn't stand the guy but the last 2 or 3 years i have really enjoyed all of his fights. Really keeps you thinking on what the fuck he is up to sometimes. I remember watching the Morua fight with my 2 brothers they thought he was shit because he was doing something really hard to explain (i tried twice but thought i came off slightly retarded) but i was trying to work out what he was at.
slip&counter
07-10-2009, 07:29 PM
underated by some and overrated by many
he's a good fighter, however i'm not a fan of his style, i call him a broke naz like so many from that gym the switch hitting for example doesn't work and really just confuses him, its all smoke and mirrors he has a lot of character flaws and deficiencies
one of those british fighters much like enzo mcc who might be slightly above domestic level but short of world class and against top level opposition, judah for example although it was at short notice and that was a zab who was being compared to sweet pea
i think he's got his work cut out against Alexander although he's nothing special witter will struggle with his style
btw i think prime hatton beats him and that says it all because i don't think much of hattons skill set
HairyHighlander
07-10-2009, 07:36 PM
Simply put.........wrong boxer regarding wrong time.
His fault ? NOTHING.
All the best to him........he does, definately deserve it.
Nice one fellas was just wondering how all you seen him.
GazOC
07-10-2009, 08:02 PM
LHL/ Kos,
Do you think he gets a fair crack around here?
No.
Probably because he's seen as boring, and people have to draw their line in the sand with Hatton and it gets forgotten what Witter did in his own right.
He's been one of Britain's better fighters of the last half decade or so.
kosaros
07-10-2009, 08:05 PM
LHL/ Kos,
Do you think he gets a fair crack around here?
By some posters he does, although their are some who just don't like his fighting style (which is fine, its not the most pleasing on the eye) or don't like him because they are overly supportive of Hatton (I like both) and both of these things can cloud peoples opinions of him.
Edit: TFFP beat me to it!
GazOC
07-10-2009, 08:09 PM
But there are also people who overate him just to get at Hatton. If you look at his career, he's been WBC champ and a solid would class 140lber for 10 years but still just gets mentioned by Hatton haters when a Hatton thread comes up. For a fan thats got to be a PITA?
I think it differs from threads and posters if its about Hatton he somehow becomes a mini Mayweather. When he fights people give him the respect he deserves and others he gets shitted on basically.
I think people write him off as boring to often without giving him a watch. A lot of times people bring up the Witter vs Judah fight and i think most haven't seen it. I managed to see it once online on a piss poor stream but have never been able to see it again.
But there are also people who overate him just to get at Hatton. If you look at his career, he's been WBC champ and a solid would class 140lber for 10 years but still just gets mentioned when a Hatton thread comes up. For a fan thats got to be a PITA?
Exactly, and I agree. It just shows that Witter is underrated, underappreciated and under-talked about in his own right!
How many people talk about Witter, except in that context? I include myself, of course, I'm a major culprit.
When the achievements you mention are pretty good, better than most will ever attain.
kosaros
07-10-2009, 08:13 PM
But there are also people who overate him just to get at Hatton. If you look at his career, he's been WBC champ and a solid would class 140lber for 10 years but still just gets mentioned by Hatton haters when a Hatton thread comes up. For a fan thats got to be a PITA?
Yeah this is also true - I should have given a more balanced arguement. :good
GazOC
07-10-2009, 08:20 PM
Has anyone seen much of Alexander? His record doesn't give way much (other than he's lucky to be number 1 ranked).
I might have seen him on the Jones Vs Trinadad undercard but I'm not sure if it was televised here
He's not so much lucky as being afforded the same disproportionate opprotunities as every other Don King fighter, especially where the WBC are concerned!
As for the fighter himself, I saw him a while a go. Can't remember him being particularly great, or bad. Plus I always get him mixed up with 'Mean' Joe Greene. Pretty sure he's just a basic solid fighter, but then again that describes Tim Bradley pretty accurately so it depends how Witter turns up...
Here you can see him training, and having a few words, its noticeable he's not especially big:
2m3_Dix3B1w
Vantage_West
07-10-2009, 10:25 PM
he admires his work too much, his jab is too awkward and his only effective jab is that pawing one which means fuck all in the scoring and not really effective also his defence is nothing but switching feet.. his right hook and left uppercut is a really nice manuva. but still he doesnt get the job done, just half bakes every fight i have seen.
Vantage_West
07-10-2009, 10:35 PM
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the uppercut at the start is peach as fuck
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widdy
07-11-2009, 02:52 AM
lazy,bone idle shit to watch,most of the time,
when he turned up with the right attitude,would of given all the 140's a tough time.
i watched the judah fight live,the fucker ran a marathon,very poor and embarressing,judah isent and wasent that good
trotter
07-11-2009, 03:25 AM
Very safety first, often lazy, and gets dragged down to his opponents level
As TFFP said, he's done well in his career and been a world champion. But when you and your supporters tout yourself as the best in your weight class you get judged by a higher standard
People make a lot of the Zab fight but my God, the Corley fight was an absolute stinker too. Horrible. There is no enjoyment at all in watching shit like that.
"TKO"
07-11-2009, 06:12 AM
What's your opinions on Witter.
I'm a big fan so i will probably be very biased. Anyone give me a run down on what you think of him. Not looking for the typical "He's boring". Just a good honest summary of him.
He is a world class fighter and a good beltholder. He has had a handy little career by anyone's standards, winning the "traditional" belts and making a couple of defences of a belt. He has had a few good wins over world class or fringe world class fighters. The loss to Judah really didn't do him any favours when trying to get his name out there to the wider public as it put people off him. Perhaps unfairly as he was very inexperienced at the time, but if he didn't want to try and win he shouldn't have taken the fight.
He stayed too long fighting poor opposition for me (5 years between Judah and Ndou and not a top 30 opponent in there), but when he did belatedly step up to world class proved that he belonged there. I think he would have helped his own cause more if he wasn't so passive in and out of the ring. He should have gone after the big fights more aggressively, if necessary going to the States to showcase his wares and evidence he was no longer the scared fighter of the Judah bout. He made a good start with Ndou and impressed the US audience but never built on it. Instead, he spent too much of his career begging for Ricky Hatton to give him a payday. Good points include unorthodox style, decent (though not great) power, pretty solid chin, speed, reflexes. Bad points include negative style (sometimes), low workrate, going to sleep sometimes, questionable stamina in the later rounds.
"TKO"
07-11-2009, 06:18 AM
Nicely put Gaz sometimes I think he could easily finish some fights a bit early. If he was a bit more active i think he would have beat Bradley.
I thought he hindered his career by chasing the Hatton fight rather than just getting his own stuff done.
Anyone know why he waited so long after the N'Dou fight to get his chance at the WBC title or who was the champ at the time.
It was first Gatti, then Mayweather beat him (late 05 I think). I don't think Witter was really on Mayweather's radar and nor was he a mandatory at that point. After he beat Kotelnik and Lynes, he and Corley became #1 and #2, then Mayweather vactated to move up hence Witter v Corley for the vacant title.
UndisputedUK
07-11-2009, 06:18 AM
Bradley is an excellent fighter.
robpalmer135
07-11-2009, 06:19 AM
is the alexander fight on tv anywhere?
ApatheticLeader
07-11-2009, 07:07 AM
Witter is an idiot. A complete and total idiot who is overrated on here.
But he's currently a quiet idiot, so I don't hate him quite so much.
Overated by some
Underated by some.
Good power
Good chin
Awful workrate
Overated speed
Good combination puncher when he actually let go instead of looking for one punch.
Avoided in a sense, mainly due to his awful showing against Judah. Plus he never had a fan base outside of Betty and Scurlantings to "force" the big fights.
Overall a good fighter but only a b-level champion.
"TKO"
07-12-2009, 06:03 AM
Overated by some
Underated by some.
Good power
Good chin
Awful workrate
Overated speed
Good combination puncher when he actually let go instead of looking for one punch.
Avoided in a sense, mainly due to his awful showing against Judah. Plus he never had a fan base outside of Betty and Scurlantings to "force" the big fights.
Overall a good fighter but only a b-level champion.
Those guys aren't genuine fans of Witter. They just like to use him as a convenient bit of mud to throw at Hatton. Somebody like Icemax is a genuine Witter fan, which you have to respect him for.
icemax
07-12-2009, 06:13 AM
Bradley is an excellent fighter.
He is decent, but Junior made him look better than he is.
I am a massive Witter fan, but he can be very frustrating in that he is a completely idle bastard when he thinks he is in front or when he has a moody on...which is quite often :hey
dan-b
07-12-2009, 06:15 AM
If you look at his qualities he could have been a bigger star than he was with the sufficient promotion behind him. Just as he's used as mud to sling at Hatton, the Judah fight is always brought up against him. That was a long time ago and, if he'd been given the chances, it could easily have been erased from people's memories. Many fighters have been involved in stinkers but rarely is it held against them to the degree the Judah fight was against Witter.
"TKO"
07-12-2009, 09:03 AM
If you look at his qualities he could have been a bigger star than he was with the sufficient promotion behind him. Just as he's used as mud to sling at Hatton, the Judah fight is always brought up against him. That was a long time ago and, if he'd been given the chances, it could easily have been erased from people's memories. Many fighters have been involved in stinkers but rarely is it held against them to the degree the Judah fight was against Witter.
True that. Witter stuffed up by being too passive about his career. When he had got to about 6/7 KOs since Judah, he should have gone across to the US and taken on some world ranked opposition, made his name out there, called the top guys out. If he kept on winning he would have made a name for himself as a potential future opponent for the big names. Instead, he KO'd another 7 or 8 nobodies, wasting valuable time. He did make a decent impression on a wider audience in the Ndou fight but followed it up with two unimpressive outings.
The ironic thing was that just as he really did position himself for a potential jump into the big leagues after KOing Harris, he went and lost in his next outing to an unknown 9-1 underdog. That's been his problem throughout most of his career, it's a lot of two steps forward, one step back.
I don't think he had potential to be a star though. Being mainstream popular is not just about your fighting ability, but that X-factor, marketability, ability to make people relate to you, personality. Hatton has it in droves. Witter often comes across as a little bitter and whilst he's probably a nice guy at heart, I just think he is a bit more hard to warm to, which limits his star potential to me.
dan-b
07-12-2009, 10:37 AM
True that. Witter stuffed up by being too passive about his career. When he had got to about 6/7 KOs since Judah, he should have gone across to the US and taken on some world ranked opposition, made his name out there, called the top guys out. If he kept on winning he would have made a name for himself as a potential future opponent for the big names. Instead, he KO'd another 7 or 8 nobodies, wasting valuable time. He did make a decent impression on a wider audience in the Ndou fight but followed it up with two unimpressive outings.
The ironic thing was that just as he really did position himself for a potential jump into the big leagues after KOing Harris, he went and lost in his next outing to an unknown 9-1 underdog. That's been his problem throughout most of his career, it's a lot of two steps forward, one step back.
I don't think he had potential to be a star though. Being mainstream popular is not just about your fighting ability, but that X-factor, marketability, ability to make people relate to you, personality. Hatton has it in droves. Witter often comes across as a little bitter and whilst he's probably a nice guy at heart, I just think he is a bit more hard to warm to, which limits his star potential to me.
Yes but Hatton had to develop some of that "x-factor" by doing things ****** asked him to do. Was Witter afforded these chances? We'll never really know.
I agree that taking a few fights in the States would have helped but, again, it's not that easy. Even Hatton wasn't fighting in the States until he'd hit the big time and when you're an awkward opponent like Witter he's hardly someone an American promoter will risk one of his own contenders against.
He should have been beaten Bradley though, who knows what might have been? He could have been fighting Holt, in the States, on a semi big bill. Times well and truly against him now, but he's had a reprieve with the vacant WBC. If he wins this he has the opportunity for one more big fight maybe.
It was first Gatti, then Mayweather beat him (late 05 I think). I don't think Witter was really on Mayweather's radar and nor was he a mandatory at that point. After he beat Kotelnik and Lynes, he and Corley became #1 and #2, then Mayweather vactated to move up hence Witter v Corley for the vacant title.
:good Cheers don't think he would have done well against mayweather :lol:
no-lefthand
07-12-2009, 02:57 PM
Done himself no favours by being hard to watch, gave fighters a good excuse to avoid him.
"TKO"
07-12-2009, 03:03 PM
Yes but Hatton had to develop some of that "x-factor" by doing things ****** asked him to do. Was Witter afforded these chances? We'll never really know.
I agree that taking a few fights in the States would have helped but, again, it's not that easy. Even Hatton wasn't fighting in the States until he'd hit the big time and when you're an awkward opponent like Witter he's hardly someone an American promoter will risk one of his own contenders against.
He should have been beaten Bradley though, who knows what might have been? He could have been fighting Holt, in the States, on a semi big bill. Times well and truly against him now, but he's had a reprieve with the vacant WBC. If he wins this he has the opportunity for one more big fight maybe.
What things were those? Hatton's star appeal is down to a few things, his friendly, down to earth "boy next door" nature (whatever some numb nuts on here may try and tell you), his attacking ring style, his big personality, his ability to tap into the football fan market as a result of his City support. Witter meanwhile comes across as a bit bitter, is more passive, more of a counterpuncher and I couldn't even tell you which team he supports if any.
True, Hatton didn't fight in the States until he won the title but then again with his big following and ability to make money, he was able to entice several solid fringe world-class fighters over here to face him. Guys like Magee, Oliveira, Stewart, Tackie, Phillips. I think Witter could have got a fight with a few guys like that and, had he beaten them in style, got good reviews and erased the memory of the Judah fight. He did it once with Ndou and was well received, but never followed it up. I agree that he probably didn't get the attention from ****** that the much more marketable (and profitable) Hatton did. But I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't buy this idea some people put across that a fighter's career is solely determined by the opportunities he is given, I think there has to be some element of go out and make things happen.
I think JW is drinking in the last chance saloon, I reckon he can beat Alexander (though whether he'll get a verdict in America if it goes the distance is another matter), but he needs to be more active, fighting every six months at his age is not enough. I reckon he could have beaten Holt, but I doubt that fight would have taken place if Witter beat Bradley. Holt-Bradley was an easy unification bout to arrange as both are American. When trying to arrange a Brit-American unification you have more problems, i.e. there are more likely to be problems over promoters and where the fight is to be staged.
Anyone know if we are going to see this fight i'd be gutted if it wasn't on TV its a great card as well. Bradley v campbell and Romanov as well
I remember when Witter was offered a fight with Eamonn Magee just after Magee had lost to Hatton and according to Fwank ****** (God i cant believe ive just said that) he refused and fought a lesser opponent (cant remember his name).
If Witter had taken the fight and beaten Magee, and beaten him better than Hatton then he would of had a bit of a bargaining tool.
Just as TKO said Witter could have got Oliveira or Tackie into the ring and then he could of pushed for the Hatton fight but he put all his eggs in one basket so to speak by stalking Hatton.
I remember when Witter was offered a fight with Eamonn Magee just after Magee had lost to Hatton and according to Fwank ****** (God i cant believe ive just said that) he refused and fought a lesser opponent (cant remember his name).
If Witter had taken the fight and beaten Magee, and beaten him better than Hatton then he would of had a bit of a bargaining tool.
Just as TKO said Witter could have got Oliveira or Tackie into the ring and then he could of pushed for the Hatton fight but he put all his eggs in one basket so to speak by stalking Hatton.
I think i found a hole in this theory :lol:
I always wondered why Magee and Witter never fought. Magee is another strange one the guy never amounted to much but he was a solid fighter.
I think i found a hole in this theory :lol:
I always wondered why Magee and Witter never fought. Magee is another strange one the guy never amounted to much but he was a solid fighter.
:lol::good
I must be ill to actually even think of even using the devil as a "source".
dan-b
07-12-2009, 03:48 PM
What things were those? Hatton's star appeal is down to a few things, his friendly, down to earth "boy next door" nature (whatever some numb nuts on here may try and tell you), his attacking ring style, his big personality, his ability to tap into the football fan market as a result of his City support. Witter meanwhile comes across as a bit bitter, is more passive, more of a counterpuncher and I couldn't even tell you which team he supports if any.
True, Hatton didn't fight in the States until he won the title but then again with his big following and ability to make money, he was able to entice several solid fringe world-class fighters over here to face him. Guys like Magee, Oliveira, Stewart, Tackie, Phillips. I think Witter could have got a fight with a few guys like that and, had he beaten them in style, got good reviews and erased the memory of the Judah fight. He did it once with Ndou and was well received, but never followed it up. I agree that he probably didn't get the attention from ****** that the much more marketable (and profitable) Hatton did. But I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't buy this idea some people put across that a fighter's career is solely determined by the opportunities he is given, I think there has to be some element of go out and make things happen.
I think JW is drinking in the last chance saloon, I reckon he can beat Alexander (though whether he'll get a verdict in America if it goes the distance is another matter), but he needs to be more active, fighting every six months at his age is not enough. I reckon he could have beaten Holt, but I doubt that fight would have taken place if Witter beat Bradley. Holt-Bradley was an easy unification bout to arrange as both are American. When trying to arrange a Brit-American unification you have more problems, i.e. there are more likely to be problems over promoters and where the fight is to be staged.
My post wasn't a pop at Hatton, hope it didn't come across that way. The things I was referring to were media events that Hatton embraced but were arranged by ****** in order to raise his profile. I'm not trying to suggest that Hatton wasn't always this charismatic but he was certainly given the means by which to come out of his shell and be the man that he was. If you look a some of his earlier interviews he was more subdued, although some of that might have been his age.
Still, it's ridiculous that they never fought. I don't want to get into the blame game but it's an indictment on the sport in this country that stuff like this happens. Sky should have forced the issue.
"TKO"
07-13-2009, 09:26 AM
My post wasn't a pop at Hatton, hope it didn't come across that way. The things I was referring to were media events that Hatton embraced but were arranged by ****** in order to raise his profile. I'm not trying to suggest that Hatton wasn't always this charismatic but he was certainly given the means by which to come out of his shell and be the man that he was. If you look a some of his earlier interviews he was more subdued, although some of that might have been his age.
Still, it's ridiculous that they never fought. I don't want to get into the blame game but it's an indictment on the sport in this country that stuff like this happens. Sky should have forced the issue.
Didn't come across that way at all mate, was just curious what you were referring to that was all :good. Fair enough, as I said ****** probably did put more effort into marketing Hatton than Witter due to the sheer earning potential of promoting Hatton. I think if anyone should have forced the issue it should have been ****** as promoter. However, he was making enough cash out of Hatton and ticking over nicely with Witter than it wasn;t in his interests to match them up. Sky as a commercial TV channel are concerned only about viewing figures so I wouldn't expect them to be the ones to force the issue.
icemax
07-13-2009, 09:29 AM
and I couldn't even tell you which team he supports if any.
Doncaster Rovers....don't diss the Rovers :blood
I think Sky tried there best they showed hatton at a few of his shows and Witter at hattons. They talked about it all the time as well in the studio and even got the two in the ring with each other :yep
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GazOC
07-13-2009, 09:41 AM
:lol::good
I must be ill to actually even think of even using the devil as a "source".
At least you were honest enough to admit that was the source...:good
icemax
07-13-2009, 09:47 AM
Leeds >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Donny Rovers
League tables would suggest otherwise :hi:
dan-b
07-13-2009, 09:56 AM
Didn't come across that way at all mate, was just curious what you were referring to that was all :good. Fair enough, as I said ****** probably did put more effort into marketing Hatton than Witter due to the sheer earning potential of promoting Hatton. I think if anyone should have forced the issue it should have been ****** as promoter. However, he was making enough cash out of Hatton and ticking over nicely with Witter than it wasn;t in his interests to match them up. Sky as a commercial TV channel are concerned only about viewing figures so I wouldn't expect them to be the ones to force the issue.
As we've been discussing in another thread, maybe it's time Sky did start forcing the issue in the same way HBO do in America. They let the promoters dictate way too much here. Can you imagine what HBO would have said about a Hatton v Stephen Smith fight?
"TKO"
07-13-2009, 02:26 PM
I think Sky tried there best they showed hatton at a few of his shows and Witter at hattons. They talked about it all the time as well in the studio and even got the two in the ring with each other :yep
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This is it. There was obviously some interest from both parties at that stage, Witter was calling for the fight in the papers and Hatton actually made the effort to show up ringside at one of his fights, which I don't think he'd have done if he wasn't entertaining the idea. I think it would have been a very good fight at this stage. That probably changed when Hatton beat Tszyu, I think it was then that his attitude became a bit more cynical towards Witter and the idea of "why should I make his name for him" became more prevalent. Considering the quality of opposition Hatton fought since that date, I don't see this as a problem, but some think differently.
dan-b
07-13-2009, 02:33 PM
This is it. There was obviously some interest from both parties at that stage, Witter was calling for the fight in the papers and Hatton actually made the effort to show up ringside at one of his fights, which I don't think he'd have done if he wasn't entertaining the idea. I think it would have been a very good fight at this stage. That probably changed when Hatton beat Tszyu, I think it was then that his attitude became a bit more cynical towards Witter and the idea of "why should I make his name for him" became more prevalent. Considering the quality of opposition Hatton fought since that date, I don't see this as a problem, but some think differently.
When was that film clip though? Quite a time before Hatton beat Tszyu I think, although I'm not entirely sure.
widdy
07-13-2009, 02:37 PM
Doncaster Rovers....don't diss the Rovers :blood
won't diss em mate,there just shit,i can say that now burnley are in the prem:good
November 2001 sometime before Tszyu. This would have been great back then. He was also at the a few other fights i think even in the studio as well. I'm not 100% sure but i think he was at the Lauri fight
icemax
07-13-2009, 05:50 PM
won't diss em mate,there just shit,i can say that now burnley are in the prem:good
See you in 2010-11 :hi: (and not in the Premiership)
icemax
07-13-2009, 06:05 PM
I'm not 100% sure but i think he was at the Lauri fight
Its not at the Lauri fight :deal
widdy
07-13-2009, 06:06 PM
See you in 2010-11 :hi: (and not in the Premiership)
u not bloody wrong mate:patsch
Its not at the Lauri fight :deal
aye its 5 after the Judah fight its when he was fighting the lesser known guys. I was saying i think Hatton was at the Lauri fight in a suit and bow tie i watched it the other day i'll go check.
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