Why did Bisping make it so easy for Hendo? Just an off-night or is he just mediocre?

[DINAMITA]

Just a little bit in shock after the Henderson-Bisping fight. I had tipped Henderson to win, but it was the way the fight unfolded that really surprised me.

What I can't get my head around is just how easy Bisping made it for Henderson.

I'm no MMA expert, I'm just a new/casual fan, but I watched a lot of Henderson on youtube and dvd during the recent Ultimate Fighter series, and it was clear that this guy is a fighter of the very highest calibre. He was an absolute monster in Pride, and his level of comp seems to have been incredibly high throughout a supreme career.

However, Dan Henderson did not perform to even a fraction of his ability against Bisping... because he didn't even have to. His world-class wrestling abilities, his variation, his heart - none of these came into play.

He seemed to know that he was far stronger and far tougher than Bisping, and he seemed to know that he would eventually land one hook which would annihilate the Count.

So as far as I could see, all he did was chase Bisping around with his arm cocked trying to land a haymaker.

And soon enough he did.

Michael Bisping has always talked a great game, talked about his training methods, his well-rounded skills, his adaptability/variation, his apparent greatness.

And yet when his opponent's plan was merely to run around after him trying to take his head off, Bisping couldn't even react to this telegraphed plan and do anything to avoid it or counteract it. For me that showed a lack of composure, a lack of intelligence, a lack of ring-craft... and that's before you even consider how physically weak he seemed in comparison to Hendo.


To be brutally honest, Bisping looked like a skinny scared little boy in the octagon next to Henderson.


My question is: was this just a one-off bad night for Bisping (many many great fighters have had them), or is he just a mediocre fighter??

:bbb

[Blue145]

I think he was in over his head, simple. Hendo has operated at the highest level for so long. The only Bisbing could have won, if Henderson really was shot, he's looked on the slide for a wee bit now, but he still had more than enough to destroy an up and comer.

Bisbing is an ok fighter, he sells well but he'll never be great.

[Beebs]

Short answer is Henderson is an all time legend, one of the greatest ever, and Bisping was both shitting himself with fear and not in the same quality level.

[ufoalf]

To be brutally honest, Bisping looked like a skinny scared little boy in the octagon next to Henderson.

That's exactly what it is. Bisping is reality TV contestant. Henderson has been fighting his whole life at a very high level.

Boy vs a man. He was scared, his plan to stick and move only works on people who can't outstrike him. His punches are weak and Henderson like to slug it out because he has the chin. Bisping is not going to try to wrestle with Hendo cause it's a suicide. It was always going to be Hendo looking to exchange because Bisping can't hang.

He bit off more than he could chew.

[socrates]

However, Dan Henderson did not perform to even a fraction of his ability against Bisping... because he didn't even have to. His world-class wrestling abilities, his variation, his heart - none of these came into play.



:bbbnow thats just silly,henderson hasnt looked as good since defeating wandy back in pride..

-firstly he pissed henderson off and made it personal
-secondly henderson is as complete a fighter as they come, and will use whatever strength it takes at each given moment, in this case it was his striking (it is not an exhibition nor a demonstration of ability) in the octagon you get the job done simple as!
-thirdly bisping is a top fighter but yes he was clearly out of his depth here,he will be back and no shame in losing to a legend..

good thing about this is it sets up the rematch with silva and i for one think henderson wins,watch the first one it was weird hendo dominated in round 1 and for some odd reason gave his back to silva on a plate in round 2 i was gobsmacked at such a simple error on his part.

[DINAMITA]

now thats just silly,henderson hasnt looked as good since defeating wandy back in pride..

-firstly he pissed henderson off and made it personal
-secondly henderson is as complete a fighter as they come, and will use whatever strength it takes at each given moment, in this case it was his striking (it is not an exhibition nor a demonstration of ability) in the octagon you get the job done simple as!
-thirdly bisping is a top fighter but yes he was clearly out of his depth here,he will be back and no shame in losing to a legend..

good thing about this is it sets up the rematch with silva and i for one think henderson wins,watch the first one it was weird hendo dominated in round 1 and for some odd reason gave his back to silva on a plate in round 2 i was gobsmacked at such a simple error on his part.

Eh?

Henderson is a well-rounded fighter, and a brilliant fighter with a lot to his game.

But all he had to do to beat Bisping was chase him round the Octagon with his right arm coiled.

He didn't try to hide this, it was obvious from the first minute this was his gameplan and he knew it would work so didn't deviate from it for a second. He wasn't boxing like Ray Leonard or striking like Anderson Silva, he was running around using one arm like a club, it was not a great stand-up display because it didn't need to be, because Bisping didn't have the skillset to force him to do anything else.

If you think that is all Dan Henderson can do, you don't know much about Dan Henderson.

Much like Marvin Hagler did v Tommy Hearns, he did what he had to do to win quickly and conclusively.

But there is so much more to his game than that (just like there was to Hagler's), that he didn't need to utilize because he knew the come-forward aggressive approach would be enough.


However, I agree that Henderson would be a very live threat to Silva. He is a fucking beast. A true great.

[socrates]

If you think that is all Dan Henderson can do, you don't know much about Dan Henderson.

.eh?

i said that?

are you having trouble with my retoric or simply hungover?:D

now i apologise for not making my self clear but i think you'l find i have followed mma for years dinamita my man, it is you who has stated that you are a relative newcomer to the sport so please refrain from patronsing my knowledge of henderson and talking to me in a rather condescending manner...

i could tell you all you need to know regarding the subject and indeed the great man himself,you on the other hand are one of those who have spent to much time on wikipedia and sherdog and now think they are bas fecking rutten.i could be wrong...

:D

now i must dash but we will continue this another time.

[sugarngold]

Bisping is good - but he was in the octagon with an all time great in Dan Henderson.

[jimmie]

Henderson is a man and Bisping is a boy simple enough.

[DINAMITA]

eh?

i said that?

are you having trouble with my retoric or simply hungover?:D

now i apologise for not making my self clear but i think you'l find i have followed mma for years dinamita my man, it is you who has stated that you are a relative newcomer to the sport so please refrain from patronsing my knowledge of henderson and talking to me in a rather condescending manner...

i could tell you all you need to know regarding the subject and indeed the great man himself,you on the other hand are one of those who have spent to much time on wikipedia and sherdog and now think they are bas fecking rutten.i could be wrong...

:D

now i must dash but we will continue this another time.

Someone who had been an MMA fan for all of 6 seconds would know that chasing someone around the ring with one telegraphed punch is not a great display of striking - it's not a great display of anything except power.

And yet it was enough to win. And Henderson knew it would be enough to win. This great fighter didn't need to do anything else.

Which begs the question - is Bisping really that bad that he didn't have the brain or the physical tools to counteract a very simple, very obvious plan? He should have made it harder for Henderson than that. Unless he simply is not good enough.

[rekcutnevets]

I think that Bisping got off to a good start(career wise), has trained hard, and can be legitimately be ranked near the top 10 of his division. Bisping is not one of the sport's elite. I think that Matt Hamil defeated Bisping in 2007, and Hamil was clearly outclassed by Rich Franklin.

[Beebs]

Bisping is getting too much stick, theres a difference between not being in the league of absolute MMA god Dan Henderson and being a shitty fighter, Bisping is solid, just wasn't ever going to win that fight.

[scurlaruntings]

Bisping is getting too much stick, theres a difference between not being in the league of absolute MMA god Dan Henderson and being a shitty fighter, Bisping is solid, just wasn't ever going to win that fight.Ok out of the big names at 185/205 who can Bisping beat? I wouldnt even fancy his chances against this version of Wandy. Bisping is garbage.

[DINAMITA]

Ok out of the big names at 185/205 who can Bisping beat? I wouldnt even fancy his chances against this version of Wandy. Bisping is garbage.

What chance would you give Henderson against Silva in a rematch mate? I think he has a great chance.

[scurlaruntings]

What chance would you give Henderson against Silva in a rematch mate? I think he has a great chance.Good chance but he wont be able to strike with Silva as Silva is a much better and precise striker. Even if it goes to the mat Silva is good enough to get a submmision from guard. Hendo will always have a good shout but i dont see him beating Silva.

[DINAMITA]

Good chance but he wont be able to strike with Silva as Silva is a much better and precise striker. Even if it goes to the mat Silva is good enough to get a submmision from guard. Hendo will always have a good shout but i dont see him beating Silva.

I haven't seen much of Silva on the mat. Is he black-belt BJJ level?

[Beebs]

I haven't seen much of Silva on the mat. Is he black-belt BJJ level?

Thats an understatement; he subbed Henderson and Lutter.

[scurlaruntings]

Thats an understatement; he subbed Henderson and Lutter.Alot of people laugh at his BJJ credentials but personally i think there solid. Lutter has solid BJJ and Silva schooled him. Albeit that fat ass got tired.

[Beebs]

Alot of people laugh at his BJJ credentials but personally i think there solid. Lutter has solid BJJ and Silva schooled him. Albeit that fat ass got tired.

I used to be one of those people.

Then he did in 2 rounds what it took 2 nog brothers 3 fights to do.

[chimba]

Bisping is just not good..an average Joe who trained hard. How can you not telegraph a looping right hand like that.. The man is showing you whats coming from a mile and hes telling you that its the only thing coming w/o much speed and with haymaker trajectory and get hit like that?

BAsically Hendo toyed with him with the right

Pure grabage, just goes to prove anyone who trained may not become a UFC champ but certainly can make it into the octagon if pursued enough

[Bill Butcher]

Just a little bit in shock after the Henderson-Bisping fight. I had tipped Henderson to win, but it was the way the fight unfolded that really surprised me.

What I can't get my head around is just how easy Bisping made it for Henderson.

I'm no MMA expert, I'm just a new/casual fan, but I watched a lot of Henderson on youtube and dvd during the recent Ultimate Fighter series, and it was clear that this guy is a fighter of the very highest calibre. He was an absolute monster in Pride, and his level of comp seems to have been incredibly high throughout a supreme career.

However, Dan Henderson did not perform to even a fraction of his ability against Bisping... because he didn't even have to. His world-class wrestling abilities, his variation, his heart - none of these came into play.

He seemed to know that he was far stronger and far tougher than Bisping, and he seemed to know that he would eventually land one hook which would annihilate the Count.

So as far as I could see, all he did was chase Bisping around with his arm cocked trying to land a haymaker.

And soon enough he did.

Michael Bisping has always talked a great game, talked about his training methods, his well-rounded skills, his adaptability/variation, his apparent greatness.

And yet when his opponent's plan was merely to run around after him trying to take his head off, Bisping couldn't even react to this telegraphed plan and do anything to avoid it or counteract it. For me that showed a lack of composure, a lack of intelligence, a lack of ring-craft... and that's before you even consider how physically weak he seemed in comparison to Hendo.


To be brutally honest, Bisping looked like a skinny scared little boy in the octagon next to Henderson.


My question is: was this just a one-off bad night for Bisping (many many great fighters have had them), or is he just a mediocre fighter??

:bbb

Good post, especially considering your a new fan.

I seen this as a 50/50 fight TBH, I was always impressed with Bisping, Ive never seen him on the level of a Penn, Fedor, Silva or St Pierre but always a good fighter that can handle himself & able to compete with anyone without being embarassed.
I thought Henderson was there for the taking, he hasnt looked quite the same in UFC as he did in pride but what a shock, not Hendo winning of course, the WAY it happened, Bisping has always took a shot quite well & despite Dan having a notoriously dangerous right hand, his strength is wrestling.

I think Bisping did have an off night TBH but Im not sure he beats Dan on a great night either.

He`s still young, he still has a future, he can defo come back if he is mentally strong enough, time will tell us.

[Bill Butcher]

However, I agree that Henderson would be a very live threat to Silva. He is a fucking beast. A true great.

If you mean WANDERLEI Silva, then he would be more than a live threat, he`d KO him like he did last time, Wand is shot, tho when they met in their prime Wand won convincingly, handing Dan his 1st defeat.
Wanderlei is the better primes fighter, he proved that, he will & should rank higher than Dan on an ATG MMA list, 5 yrs unbeaten as Pride champion. He`s shot to shit now tho.

If you mean ANDERSON Silva, then not so much, I mean, Dan will always be a threat to anyone under HWT but Andy Silva outclassed him & chocked him out last time & I think he whips Dan`s ass 9 times out of 10 TBH.

:good

[Bill Butcher]

I haven't seen much of Silva on the mat. Is he black-belt BJJ level?

The Nogueira brothers gave Silva his black belt.

The HWT Nog (my fav fighter but is on the slide now:|) probably has the best BJJ in all of MMA, I dont mean he`s better at BJJ than say BJ Penn but IMHO nobody applies their BJJ to work as effectively in an MMA fight than Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira.

If those guys teach you BJJ to suit MMA then you`ve learned from the best & Silva learned from the best, believe me.

[DINAMITA]

If you mean WANDERLEI Silva, then he would be more than a live threat, he`d KO him like he did last time, Wand is shot, tho when they met in their prime Wand won convincingly, handing Dan his 1st defeat.
Wanderlei is the better primes fighter, he proved that, he will & should rank higher than Dan on an ATG MMA list, 5 yrs unbeaten as Pride champion. He`s shot to shit now tho.

If you mean ANDERSON Silva, then not so much, I mean, Dan will always be a threat to anyone under HWT but Andy Silva outclassed him & chocked him out last time & I think he whips Dan`s ass 9 times out of 10 TBH.

:good

I was meaning Anderson Silva. Henderson would ragdoll the version of Wanderlei who fought Franklin.

[DINAMITA]

The Nogueira brothers gave Silva his black belt.

The HWT Nog (my fav fighter but is on the slide now:|) probably has the best BJJ in all of MMA, I dont mean he`s better at BJJ than say BJ Penn but IMHO nobody applies their BJJ to work as effectively in an MMA fight than Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira.

If those guys teach you BJJ to suit MMA then you`ve learned from the best & Silva learned from the best, believe me.

Minotauro is my favourite fighter as well, from what I can gather from youtube videos. His BJJ is sensational. (Though I do think he should've retired after the Mir fight. This is Roy Jones all over again :-()

[DINAMITA]

How can you not telegraph a looping right hand like that.. The man is showing you whats coming from a mile and hes telling you that its the only thing coming w/o much speed and with haymaker trajectory and get hit like that?

BAsically Hendo toyed with him with the right

This is EXACTLY my point with this thread. Henderson is a much better fighter and would've won no matter what, but Bisping's alarming ineptitude made it so so easy for him.

[chimba]

This is EXACTLY my point with this thread. Henderson is a much better fighter and would've won no matter what, but Bisping's alarming ineptitude made it so so easy for him.


If you catch the replay, youd hear Hendo yelling, "Mike heres a big right coming! Thats all im throwing!"

Again what a joke of a fight, Hendo didnt even attempt a takedown (and no hes not afraid of Bispings average JJ) He didnt want to take him down because he didnt need to, he toyed with him.

[DINAMITA]

If you catch the replay, youd hear Hendo yelling, "Mike heres a big right coming! Thats all im throwing!"

Again what a joke of a fight, Hendo didnt even attempt a takedown (and no hes not afraid of Bispings average JJ) He didnt want to take him down because he didnt need to, he toyed with him.

Apparently, Henderson did say in his corner after round one something like: "He hits like a bitch".

[jrow]

i think bisping made it easier for him circling right to hendersons power hand,but i think bisping bit off more than he could chew.....hendo is a big fight for anyone

[Bill Butcher]

Minotauro is my favourite fighter as well, from what I can gather from youtube videos. His BJJ is sensational. (Though I do think he should've retired after the Mir fight. This is Roy Jones all over again :-()

Agreed, the version that fought Fedor 3 times without coming close to being stopped & subbed just about everyone else in Pride is easily the 2nd greatest HWT in MMA history, he was fast & sharp as a razor, he sees punches & kicks far too late now but up until the Mir fight his enormous heart & great chin bought him enough time to produce one of his wizardry submissions.

Im still hoping he can come back (just as I do with Morales, when will I ever learn ? :-() & sub Lesnar or Couture, a big name... but he looked shot to pieces last time out, I wont hold my breath.

[BewareofDawg]

Apparently, Henderson did say in his corner after round one something like: "He hits like a bitch".
:rofl

[bachatu]

I think it was clear from Bisping's performance that he was intimidated. The nerves really took over IMO and contributed to his poor performance, even though he would have likely not won anyway.

[québecwarrior]

Bisping was scared.

[ricardinho]

Bisping ...was exposed for what he is a conceited punk!!!

[socrates]

Someone who had been an MMA fan for all of 6 seconds would know that chasing someone around the ring with one telegraphed punch is not a great display of striking - it's not a great display of anything except power.

And yet it was enough to win. And Henderson knew it would be enough to win. This great fighter didn't need to do anything else.

Which begs the question - is Bisping really that bad that he didn't have the brain or the physical tools to counteract a very simple, very obvious plan? He should have made it harder for Henderson than that. Unless he simply is not good enough.alright,calm down!

[DINAMITA]

alright,calm down!

:lol: It's a question! What do you think mate - was it an off-night for Bisping or was it proof that he is just not good enough?

[Polymath]

Someone who had been an MMA fan for all of 6 seconds would know that chasing someone around the ring with one telegraphed punch is not a great display of striking

It is in MMA. If you have chin and power, you win those exchanges. Noone can fight 'like Sugar Ray Leonard' is MMA, it doesn't work.

[RockyMarciano]

Bisping did a great job of eating those knuckes...he needs to go back to fightin bums in the pub

[DINAMITA]

It is in MMA. If you have chin and power, you win those exchanges. Noone can fight 'like Sugar Ray Leonard' is MMA, it doesn't work.

Anderson Silva has shown wonderful precise and varied MMA striking. I think Dan Henderson is capable of great striking too. But he didn't have to be, he just ran around with one arm cocked, telegraphing one punch. He knew that was all it would take. It was a great display of power, but it was not a great display of striking. It didn't have to be, because of Bisping's lack of composure and defence.

[Polymath]

Henderson always fights, or strikes, like that.

He's a great technical wrestler, one of the est in teh sport. He is not a technical striker though.

[rekcutnevets]

Posted by DINAMITA
Anderson Silva has shown wonderful precise and varied MMA striking. I think Dan Henderson is capable of great striking too. But he didn't have to be, he just ran around with one arm cocked, telegraphing one punch. He knew that was all it would take. It was a great display of power, but it was not a great display of striking. It didn't have to be, because of Bisping's lack of composure and defence.
I see what you are saying. I think that sometimes opponents are faced with an opponent intent on knocking them out no matter what. If you don't do something to deter them, and they have the means to do it, odds are that ko hungry opponent will be successful if too many mistakes are made.

I'll give you an example of fighters with far superior boxing skills to Henderson and Bisping. When Felix Trinidad faced Fernando Vargas, Trinidad was intent on knocking Vargas out. Vargas is very game, has decent skills, and even dropped Trinidad. Trinidad used a more varied offense than Henderson, but that's debatable under the settings. Trinidad kept throwing a monster left hook at Vargas through out the fight, and missed big with it until round 12. Then BOOM, Vargas was out.

I already stated that I feel Bisping is not one of his division's elite fighters, nor do I feel that Bisping is comparable in mma stature as Vargas' is in boxing. It was the only high level boxing fight I could think of with similarity.

[Polymath]

I already stated that I feel Bisping is not one of his division's elite fighters

That's about it. In the words of 'legendary trainer Manny Steward'; 'this fight went exactly as I expected'. :deal

[socrates]

:lol: It's a question! What do you think mate - was it an off-night for Bisping or was it proof that he is just not good enough?neither..

humbling loss,but bisping will be back hes a good fighter just not on that level henderson is (not many are).

[radab]

Before this, a lot of talk was about Bisping vs Anderson

[socrates]

Before this, a lot of talk was about Bisping vs Andersonit would be better than leites v anderson no? :D

clearly bisping has a way to go,i still rate him as a fighter though....

the haters can hate,bisping will be back.

[radab]

it would be better than leites v anderson no? :D

clearly bisping has a way to go,i still rate him as a fighter though....

the haters can hate,bisping will be back.



me too. but he knows hes not the finished article and trains accordingly. hopefully the loss will end up a good thing for Count Bisping

[socrates]

me too. but he knows hes not the finished article and trains accordingly. hopefully the loss will end up a good thing for Count Bispingthe guys got a fighting heart,he'l learn from it...

[SouthpawSlayer]

bisping was a hype job created by the ufc to create interest and a loyal fan base in england, dana saw the popularity of hatton in england and wanted some of that action, over 1 million ppv buys in uk for hatton pbf so dana fed bisping bums, he was never really that good and a past it dan henderson was able to walk through him with the most obvious game plan ever and yet bisping still didnt know what to fucking do, seeing hendo jump up and connect that elbow on bisping while he was knocked out was the best thing since sliced bread

[sugarngold]

qggqSkDTlA8

[achillesthegreat]

Simply hasn't got the mental to fortitude to fight like he talks. He can sometimes achieve it against mediocre fighters or maybe the right style match ups but not genuinely elite fighters.

I don't think he has the talent to pull off what Liddell does i.e. move around while trying to land punishing blows and keep the fight standing.