Ali on Tunney video....White Ali!!

[SLAKKA]

In an related post to Ali-Dempsey, the same program had Ali getting a look at Tunney vs Carpentier I think, and comparing him to
"A white Ali today he'd be champ"!

High praise indeed, I wonder if any of you may have this clip.
Thanks in advance.
slakka

[red cobra]

Tunney, in all the sports books and in many boxing mags in years past, has been often dismissed as "colorless"..and has never been especially popular. I think this is a bunch of shit,,,a persisting bit of ignorance, like that of disparaging Max Schmeling as an "evil Nazi", and the like...Tunney is degraded quite a bit anongst the modernday revisionists, who downgrade him right off the bat for not "crossing the color line" and use that as a pretext for lowrating him in general. I saw that special being referred to on Wide World of Sports back in the 70's, and Ali reserved high praise for the then still living Tunney..appreciating his rather modern looking skills in contrast to many of the other greats, who did look and seem a little out of kilter in a "modern boxing" sense. High praise indeed from "The Greatest", and I tend to agree. And as a side note of a kind, consider that Tunney was MOST unpopular back in the 20's for not only his literary, intellectual type image, but for mostly for the cardinal sin of thrashing a legend in Jack Dempsey. Well, as you know, Dempsey himself requested that the fights with Tunney be limited to 10 rounds, rather severely truncating the traditional 15, 20, 25, etc., limits of title fights in those days...just imagine how unpopular and hated Tunney would have been if those fights with the Manassa Mauler were scheduled for a longer distance...I believe that Tunney would have stopped Dempsey in their initial encounter, and it may have nipped in the bud the rematch, and hence, no "Long Count", and a great legend not only of boxing lore, but of sports in general. Actually, even if Tunney had stopped Dempsey in a longer fight, I believe that the rematch, with a "Long Count" controversy or not, I think that Tunney would have stopped him again, as Dempsey was grateful to hear the bell at the end of the 10th in both bouts, and was on the recieving end of much punishment from Tunney.

[albinored]

...i'm not even sure if i saw that...memory is vague on this one. it may be the same one on which ali is impressed by charles' one punch kayo of pat velentino..

back to tunney....i suppose ali was referring to tunney's hands down style and speed in jabbing and moving around the ring.

dempsey/tunney...based on the controversy of the long count there were attempts of matching tunney and dempsey for a third time, but dempsey turned it down....saying he was afraid he might lose his eyesight....said tunney had battered him too hard and often on the head.

now that ezzard charles is getting the credit he deserves, especially at light heavy, i think tunney once again is the most under rated of the heavyweight champions.

[Seamus]

.i think tunney once again is the most under rated of the heavyweight champions.

I rank Tunney very, very high, head to head better than any version of Dempsey and right up there with the best of the sub200 crew.

[Mendoza]

Tunney, in all the sports books and in many boxing mags in years past, has been often dismissed as "colorless"..and has never been especially popular. I think this is a bunch of shit,,,a persisting bit of ignorance, like that of disparaging Max Schmeling as an "evil Nazi", and the like...Tunney is degraded quite a bit anongst the modernday revisionists, who downgrade him right off the bat for not "crossing the color line" and use that as a pretext for lowrating him in general. I saw that special being referred to on Wide World of Sports back in the 70's, and Ali reserved high praise for the then still living Tunney..appreciating his rather modern looking skills in contrast to many of the other greats, who did look and seem a little out of kilter in a "modern boxing" sense. High praise indeed from "The Greatest", and I tend to agree. And as a side note of a kind, consider that Tunney was MOST unpopular back in the 20's for not only his literary, intellectual type image, but for mostly for the cardinal sin of thrashing a legend in Jack Dempsey. Well, as you know, Dempsey himself requested that the fights with Tunney be limited to 10 rounds, rather severely truncating the traditional 15, 20, 25, etc., limits of title fights in those days...just imagine how unpopular and hated Tunney would have been if those fights with the Manassa Mauler were scheduled for a longer distance...I believe that Tunney would have stopped Dempsey in their initial encounter, and it may have nipped in the bud the rematch, and hence, no "Long Count", and a great legend not only of boxing lore, but of sports in general. Actually, even if Tunney had stopped Dempsey in a longer fight, I believe that the rematch, with a "Long Count" controversy or not, I think that Tunney would have stopped him again, as Dempsey was grateful to hear the bell at the end of the 10th in both bouts, and was on the recieving end of much punishment from Tunney.

I saw the same stuff you did. Tunney offered Dempsey a 3rd fight. Dempsey refused. You're right, if the first fight was a 15 round match, Tunney has a real chance at the TKO. After the first match ended, Dempsey face and eyes were swollen to the point where he had to ask where Tunney was so he could shake his hand.

Its a pity Tunney retired just as his career as heavyweight champion was taking off. Gene was a bright guy. He made his million, and had other plans with life.

Head to head, I think Tunney would UD Louis and Marciano.

[Longhhorn71]

At Year 1960, Tunney was very well respected by the boxing "experts".

[JIm Broughton]

Definitely underrated. I'd have loved to have seen Tunney fight Marciano. If LaStarza could give Rocky a hard time I wonder what a more mobile Tunney would've done. Helluva fight.

[red cobra]

I saw the same stuff you did. Tunney offered Dempsey a 3rd fight. Dempsey refused. You're right, if the first fight was a 15 round match, Tunney has a real chance at the TKO. After the first match ended, Dempsey face and eyes were swollen to the point where he had to ask where Tunney was so he could shake his hand.

Its a pity Tunney retired just as his career as heavyweight champion was taking off. Gene was a bright guy. He made his million, and had other plans with life.

Head to head, I think Tunney would UD Louis and Marciano.
At one time I wouldn't agree with that, but I do now. Tunney was and is, especially on these forums, criminally underrated.

[SuzieQ49]

Head to head, I think Tunney would UD Louis and Marciano.



:lol::lol::lol::patsch

[red cobra]

There is an argument to be made for Tunney vs Marciano and Louis based, respectively on the LaStarza and Conn fights.

[Mendoza]

Tunney was tough as nails. His stamina was amazing. He had a great chin. And hit hit a little harder than he is given credit for. Above all else, Tunney was not fool as Conn or Walcott could be.

[spittle8]

I saw the same stuff you did. Tunney offered Dempsey a 3rd fight. Dempsey refused. You're right, if the first fight was a 15 round match, Tunney has a real chance at the TKO. After the first match ended, Dempsey face and eyes were swollen to the point where he had to ask where Tunney was so he could shake his hand.

Its a pity Tunney retired just as his career as heavyweight champion was taking off. Gene was a bright guy. He made his million, and had other plans with life.

Head to head, I think Tunney would UD Louis and Marciano.
Have to disagree. I think he might handle Louis pretty well, but eventually Louis taxes his head with a hard shot, leading to a KO combination. I wouldn't bet on the fight either way. Same with Marciano, but I'd expect it to be far more domination until Marciano lands some bombs or breaks Tunney down, but maybe that doesn't happen. His low hands give me trouble in any h2h deal, but he was certainly the truth...

[Seamus]

:lol::lol::lol::patsch

I think Tunney has an excellent chance over Marciano. Tunney lost about one round out of twenty against a more mobile, harder hitting foe. I love me some Marciano but I think Tunney has a great chance with this match.

[mcvey]

Tunney, in all the sports books and in many boxing mags in years past, has been often dismissed as "colorless"..and has never been especially popular. I think this is a bunch of shit,,,a persisting bit of ignorance, like that of disparaging Max Schmeling as an "evil Nazi", and the like...Tunney is degraded quite a bit anongst the modernday revisionists, who downgrade him right off the bat for not "crossing the color line" and use that as a pretext for lowrating him in general. I saw that special being referred to on Wide World of Sports back in the 70's, and Ali reserved high praise for the then still living Tunney..appreciating his rather modern looking skills in contrast to many of the other greats, who did look and seem a little out of kilter in a "modern boxing" sense. High praise indeed from "The Greatest", and I tend to agree. And as a side note of a kind, consider that Tunney was MOST unpopular back in the 20's for not only his literary, intellectual type image, but for mostly for the cardinal sin of thrashing a legend in Jack Dempsey. Well, as you know, Dempsey himself requested that the fights with Tunney be limited to 10 rounds, rather severely truncating the traditional 15, 20, 25, etc., limits of title fights in those days...just imagine how unpopular and hated Tunney would have been if those fights with the Manassa Mauler were scheduled for a longer distance...I believe that Tunney would have stopped Dempsey in their initial encounter, and it may have nipped in the bud the rematch, and hence, no "Long Count", and a great legend not only of boxing lore, but of sports in general. Actually, even if Tunney had stopped Dempsey in a longer fight, I believe that the rematch, with a "Long Count" controversy or not, I think that Tunney would have stopped him again, as Dempsey was grateful to hear the bell at the end of the 10th in both bouts, and was on the recieving end of much punishment from Tunney.

Im a Dempsey fan ,but I agree with you ,Dempsey was all in after the first fight ,over 15 rds he would probably have been stopped ,nipping in the bud any call for a return fight.

[Bummy Davis]

I saw the same stuff you did. Tunney offered Dempsey a 3rd fight. Dempsey refused. You're right, if the first fight was a 15 round match, Tunney has a real chance at the TKO. After the first match ended, Dempsey face and eyes were swollen to the point where he had to ask where Tunney was so he could shake his hand.

Its a pity Tunney retired just as his career as heavyweight champion was taking off. Gene was a bright guy. He made his million, and had other plans with life.

Head to head, I think Tunney would UD Louis and Marciano.

Tunney may have last a little longer or made the fight more interesting than Conn or Lastarza but what makes you think he could have handled the pressure of Louis,Marciano or Frazier, Greb pressured him and Harry was no puncher...I think Gene had the best feet next to Ali and a solid fast punch but he had too short a heavyweight career and no proof that would make me believe he could handle Louis or Marciano. Dempsey was inactive and rusty, he was not at his best vs Tunney and we still had the long count.

[red cobra]

Tunney may have last a little longer or made the fight more interesting than Conn or Lastarza but what makes you think he could have handled the pressure of Louis,Marciano or Frazier, Greb pressured him and Harry was no puncher...I think Gene had the best feet next to Ali and a solid fast punch but he had too short a heavyweight career and no proof that would make me believe he could handle Louis or Marciano. Dempsey was inactive and rusty, he was not at his best vs Tunney and we still had the long count.
Being totally objective even as a Tunney fan..those are all good points.

[DudeGuyMan]

I could see Tunney decisioning Louis. But I'll bet you Joe would get him in the rematch.