Sven Ottke

[LHL]

I was going to post this on the general but just thought of the abuse :lol:

I have seen him a few times he was a pretty solid boxer. Tell me what you thought of him, his best wins and all that. The guy gets all sorts of abuse but he was good.

If you can answer these questions it would be great as well:

Who was his promoter and why did he take so long to step up.

[red cobra]

I think Ottke was a good boxer too, and not deserving of all the abuse he's taken. Maybe an argument with the scoring of his fights...the German judges perhaps, but not with Ottke as a boxer. He was clever and made the most of what he had. It's a shame, however, that he didn't showcase his skills in the U.S., As I for one, appreciate fighters like him, with his kind of style and skills. I like the cerebral side of boxing.

[LHL]

I seen the reid fight which was a joke from the referee. I have heard many say the Johnson fight was also robbery and others say it was fair i think the first were just boxrec warriors jumping to conclusions.

[Serenata]

One real shitty fight in Reid at the end of his career. He had some close decisions but was a good champ. He surely dosen´t deserve all that hate.

[HitBattousai]

He deserves the hate. The man had some decent skills but he would foul with headbutts coming in often, grab a lot, and sometimes literally twisted his body so his opponent would land punches on his back, then complain to the hometown ref about it. He had several questionable decisions go in his favor, and of course the best opponent he ever faced was Robin Reid(a good, but hardly great fighter), and everyone knows what happened there. He also had all but one of his fights in the hometown atmosphere of Germany. In short, he was simply a protected fighter that would have been exposed had he ever stepped up or left Germany, and he/his people knew it, so it didn't happen.

[Serenata]

...the best opponent he ever faced was Robin Reid...

Sorry, but :lol::lol::lol:

Mundine
Larsen
Mitchell
Brewer
Johnson

[HitBattousai]

Sorry, but :lol::lol::lol:

Mundine
Larsen
Mitchell
Brewer
Johnson

The only one of those guys you can make a decent case for over Reid is Johnson, and at the time, Johnson was not exactly as solid as he is now. He lost to Ottke in a close fight(big surprise) then followed that with three or so consecutive defeats.

[Serenata]

I don´t think Reid would have beaten many of the above

[Freakzilla]

I don´t think Reid would have beaten many of the above

Reid would have had a decent chance against all of them.

And if he had the Promoter, referee and judges in his pocket like Ottke did throughout his career then he would have definitely beaten them all!

[Mr Butt]

Reid would have had a decent chance against all of them.

And if he had the Promoter, referee and judges in his pocket like Ottke did throughout his career then he would have definitely beaten them all!:good



in the reid fight things were not fair if all his challengers had to deal with the same crap no wonder he had such a good run as champ

[Serenata]

in the reid fight things were not fair if all his challengers had to deal with the same crap no wonder he had such a good run as champ

"One real shitty fight in Reid at the end of his career. He had some close decisions but was a good champ. He surely dosen´t deserve all that hate."

;)

[Mr Butt]

"One real shitty fight in Reid at the end of his career. He had some close decisions but was a good champ. He surely dosen´t deserve all that hate."

;)


i never really saw much of him so will accept your point as you have seen a lot more of him than i have ,but it did look like the fight was fixed against reid not saying that ottke would known about it though

[LHL]

i was hoping this wouldn't turn into a hate thread. Thanks anyway.

[Mr Butt]

i was hoping this wouldn't turn into a hate thread. Thanks anyway.


no hate here

[LHL]

Sorry mate i was supposed to say a Reid Vs Ottke thread it has been done so many times. I was just looking for some unbiased opinions on the guy. I watched a few of his fight (especially the mundine fight more than once :yep) and think everyone jumps on the over protected bum train to much without watching him.

[Serenata]

i was hoping this wouldn't turn into a hate thread. Thanks anyway.

Making a thread about Ottke on ESB always turns out to become a hatethread. Sorry to say and I personally don´t really get it... :(

[Lampley]

Ottke was a good fighter and would have given all but the true elites problems because of his defense, but his unwillingness to test himself away from home definitely hurts his legacy.

That, and the fact that he won every close decision. And the Reid fight. I'd defend Ottke as simply being the pawn of his promoter, but watching that bout you can see that Sven is complicit in the sham. He continually pleads with the ref anytime Reid is even remotely aggressive against him, so I just can't defend the guy.

I'd have nothing bad to say about Ottke if he'd have picked up a belt, maybe lost a fight or two, and taking on A-opponents in more challenging environments.

[Mr Butt]

i think the reason people have a problem with him is that he stayed in germany and fought no outstanding challengers. i have not got a problem with the fact he was a decent standard world champ but he never left his comfort zone to test himself against a jones or calzaghe or hopkins

[Serenata]

i think the reason people have a problem with him is that he stayed in germany and fought no outstanding challengers. i have not got a problem with the fact he was a decent standard world champ but he never left his comfort zone to test himself against a jones or calzaghe or hopkins

At the time of Ottkes retirement he had a better legacy than Calzaghe.
Ottke, Calzaghe, Jones and Hops all didn´t leave their country to unify titles much. They all stayed at home and fought more or less good opposition.

Ottke retired 2004 one fight after the Reid controversy.

At that time Calzhage had fought outside of brittain ONCE.
Up to this day Roy Jones Jr. hasn´t fought outside of the USA a single time.
Hopkins only fought two times outside the US one was a 8-8-1 guy in france and the other one was a draw against Segundo Mercado in Equador.

So I think it´s not fair to say that "he never left his comfort zone" because none of the others did as well. :)

[Mr Butt]

At the time of Ottkes retirement he had a better legacy than Calzaghe.
Ottke, Calzaghe, Jones and Hops all didn´t leave their country to unify titles much. They all stayed at home and fought more or less good opposition.

Ottke retired 2004 one fight after the Reid controversy.

At that time Calzhage had fought outside of brittain ONCE.
Up to this day Roy Jones Jr. hasn´t fought outside of the USA a single time.
Hopkins only fought two times outside the US one was a 8-8-1 guy in france and the other one was a draw against Segundo Mercado in Equador.

So I think it´s not fair to say that "he never left his comfort zone" because none of the others did as well. :)
jones should of fought the best light-heavyweights but did not but he did beat toney,hopkins and mccallum. calzaghe did wait until his last few fights to travel abroad but at least he beat hopkins and jones also lacy although at home lacy was supposed to hook calzaghe into oblivion so i dont totally agree with your point of view

[HitBattousai]

At the time of Ottkes retirement he had a better legacy than Calzaghe.
Ottke, Calzaghe, Jones and Hops all didn´t leave their country to unify titles much. They all stayed at home and fought more or less good opposition.

Ottke retired 2004 one fight after the Reid controversy.

At that time Calzhage had fought outside of brittain ONCE.
Up to this day Roy Jones Jr. hasn´t fought outside of the USA a single time.
Hopkins only fought two times outside the US one was a 8-8-1 guy in france and the other one was a draw against Segundo Mercado in Equador.

So I think it´s not fair to say that "he never left his comfort zone" because none of the others did as well. :)

Calzaghe had beaten better overall fighters in general than Ottke(though his resume is far from stellar) and in the fighters they shared, Calzaghe had the far more definitive victories, he had a better legacy than Ottke very clearly when Ottke retired.

Roy didn't fight out of the US due to the Olympic robbery he suffered and the fact that he was the one of the bigger draws in boxing. Hopkins didn't really have anybody to fight outside the US with the exception of possibly Calzaghe, where again, Hopkins was the bigger draw, though that's not saying much. Calzaghe was Calzaghe, and didn't want to risk leaving England until he was confident he could get some favorable money fights.

Also, even if the fights were in the US, Roy and B-Hop did fight in some unfavorable locations, B-Hop in particular. When he threw the Puerto Rican flag down against Tito, he had most of Madison Square Garden against him. And the crowd definitely wasn't with him for the DLH match either. Ottke never had to experience that.

All this is not to say that Ottke was a bum, he had some skills. But he would not have been champion long had he fought away from home or stepped up his competition level. And he got more than his fair share of close decisions, plus as Lampley indicated, Ottke looked like he knew what was going down in the Reid fight, which lowers him further in my eyes.

[JohnAkiBoa]

Calzaghe had beaten better overall fighters in general than Ottke(though his resume is far from stellar) and in the fighters they shared, Calzaghe had the far more definitive victories, he had a better legacy than Ottke very clearly when Ottke retired.


:rofl:lol:

Fail buddy, you just failed:patsch

[HitBattousai]

Ok, since we can't exactly compare head-to-head.....here's a few other things to compare.

Ottke
Robin Reid - UD win for Ottke which is a contender for possibly the worse ref job and general robbery of all-time.
Charles Brewer(x2) - Two questionable Split Decision Wins for Ottke.
Byron Mitchell - Another Split Decision win for Ottke.

Calzaghe
Robin Reid - Split decision win for Calzaghe. A fight which could have gone Reid's way, though the general consensus is that Calzaghe edged it.
Charles Brewer - Dominant UD win for Calzaghe.
Byron Mitchell - 2nd Round TKO for Calzaghe.

So Calzaghe obviously has the edge in performance against the common opposition. Here's just flat number of wins.

Ottke's number of wins at retirement - 34
Calzaghe's number of wins at Ottke retirement - 37

Again, Calzaghe has the edge. Here's best opponent.

Calzaghe's best opponent before Ottke's retirement - Debatable, but probably a past-prime Eubank. If not, then Reid.

Ottke's best opponent before retirement - Reid.

Arguably a wash on this. Except of course, Calzaghe didn't win against his best opposition via a total disgrace.

So how was my opinion fail again? And btw, I'm not a particularly large Calzaghe fan, imo, the man, though talented, has boosted his career by cherry-picking Hopkins and RJJ(particularly Roy), when both were well-past their best. His overall standard of competition was pretty low, imo, as well. However, to think that Ottke had a better legacy when he retired than Calzaghe is a laughable view to me, particular given that Ottke had suffered the backlash off the worst of his dubious wins soon before his retirement, calling his other close victories into further question.

[rapidfire]

Ottke
Robin Reid - UD win for Ottke which is a contender for possibly the worse ref job and general robbery of all-time.
Charles Brewer(x2) - Two questionable Split Decision Wins for Ottke.
Byron Mitchell - Another Split Decision win for Ottke.

Calzaghe
Robin Reid - Split decision win for Calzaghe. A fight which could have gone Reid's way, though the general consensus is that Calzaghe edged it.
Charles Brewer - Dominant UD win for Calzaghe.
Byron Mitchell - 2nd Round TKO for Calzaghe.

So Calzaghe obviously has the edge in performance against the common opposition. Here's just flat number of wins.

Calzaghe defeated Brewer and Mitchell after Ottke softened them up. :D

[HitBattousai]

Calzaghe defeated Brewer and Mitchell after Ottke softened them up. :D

The Phantom really took the "meat off the bone" as Floyd would say in those wars of fights for Calzaghe to finish picking at the bone :D

[MilesP]

He deserves the hate. The man had some decent skills but he would foul with headbutts coming in often, grab a lot, and sometimes literally twisted his body so his opponent would land punches on his back, then complain to the hometown ref about it. He had several questionable decisions go in his favor, and of course the best opponent he ever faced was Robin Reid(a good, but hardly great fighter), and everyone knows what happened there. He also had all but one of his fights in the hometown atmosphere of Germany. In short, he was simply a protected fighter that would have been exposed had he ever stepped up or left Germany, and he/his people knew it, so it didn't happen.

pretty much sums it up

[Boro chris]

Ottke was a good fighter and would have given all but the true elites problems because of his defense, but his unwillingness to test himself away from home definitely hurts his legacy.

That, and the fact that he won every close decision. And the Reid fight. I'd defend Ottke as simply being the pawn of his promoter, but watching that bout you can see that Sven is complicit in the sham. He continually pleads with the ref anytime Reid is even remotely aggressive against him, so I just can't defend the guy.

I'd have nothing bad to say about Ottke if he'd have picked up a belt, maybe lost a fight or two, and taking on A-opponents in more challenging environments.

Also according to sean (whos a well respected poster on esb, not a gf retard)Otkke was aware of the scorecard between rounds.
The man was definately worldclass and underated by many but it was his own fucking fault and I have no sympathy forr him.







He did ko Mundine so he's not all bad!:D

[Serenata]

"Also according to sean (whos a well respected poster on esb, not a gf retard)Otkke was aware of the scorecard between rounds."

As long as we don´t have a proof of that it´s just a myth. :)

[Boro chris]

"Also according to sean (whos a well respected poster on esb, not a gf retard)Otkke was aware of the scorecard between rounds."

As long as we don´t have a proof of that it´s just a myth. :)


Seans a decent guy. I trust him.

[Bodysnatcher]

I used to hate him because of the Reid fight.

I repent.

He was a skilled defensive wizard, he frustrated guys like Johnson and knocked out guys like Mundine.

The Reid fight still angers me, but overall, Sven was a classic spoiler and one of the best defensive fighters I've ever seen.

Without home judges he might have had a few losses, but that shouldn't detract from his skills.

He was boring as shit, though.

[Back Hand Slap]

Ottke never did anything outstanding in his whole career. Thats all im going to say.

[southpawslick]

Ottke never did anything outstanding in his whole career. Thats all im going to say.

KTFO of Mundine. He should be respected for that alone. :lol:

[madballster]

Ottke was the worst paperchamp ever. And Mundine was making Ottke look like a fool, he outboxed Ottke. Until Ottke caught him with a flush right hand right on the chin that is.

I recently read that Ottke cheated on his wife after he retired, then he lost most of his money to her. Such us life. In the interview he said he's pretty much broke now. Sad, considering he earned well over $10m in his lifetime.

[Serenata]

Ottke was the worst paperchamp ever...

This is where I stopped reading.... Get a life :tired

[red cobra]

Yeah, there's no point in hating Ottke or blaming him for the crooked scoring of German judges. He just fought the way he did, and was a rather good fighter, IMO. I am inclined to appreciate the guys that are hated so much on the forums, like Ottke and Ruiz, and if they were around today, Ernie Terrell and Sammy Angott. These guys compensated for a lack of spectacular natural gifts to use ring guile, smarts and exploited techniques that frustrated or shut down their opponents, and there's nothing wrong with that...it's like brains over natural talent.

[madballster]

Ottke was a likeable guy, but I am sorry, I saw all his fights. I saw 2 of them in person. He was running in the ring, he never traded. He was a paperchamp fighting harmless hand selected opposition.

He did what he had to do to win the bouts, but he never was in it to become a great legend. He fought without passion.

He COULD have been great, but he lacked the iron will to do so. He boxed for money, not for legacy. Now he's broke. Sad story.

[AndrewFFC]

Making a thread about Ottke on ESB always turns out to become a hatethread. Sorry to say and I personally don´t really get it... :(

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[Serenata]

Again and again and again and again......

One fucked up fight and Ottke became the reincarnation of evil. Give it a break. Reid deserved to get the win, we all agree on that. Please don´t judge Ottke only by that shitty fight...

[Cruiser1]

If you could stay awake during his fights you would be able to see that Ottke was a crafty fighter. As far as the criticism he gets, I'm all for it. His bitching in the Reid fight was shameful. Dodgy decisions aside, that fight was a complete sham.

[madballster]

Ottke was a disgrace for boxing. The worst was that the deluded German fans were convinced he's some sort of invincible Demi-God.

[AndrewFFC]

Again and again and again and again......

One fucked up fight and Ottke became the reincarnation of evil. Give it a break. Reid deserved to get the win, we all agree on that. Please don´t judge Ottke only by that shitty fight...

An atricious biased ref is bad enough.

But the worst bit is he is all too happy to go along with it, go in clinching and then appeal to the ref like a little bitch.

[MiracleMan]

KTFO of Mundine. He should be respected for that alone. :lol:

With all due respect to Sven, it was the kids 11th pro fight with no amateur career or sparring partners.

[Mazallan]

He was preobably the most underated fighter of his generation.

[madballster]

He was preobably the most underated fighter of his generation.Make that "overrated" and it will be about right.

[clyde]

Anyone that thinks Ottke was an innocent passenger on the 'delusion express' that he was riding is in dreamland. To be quite honest, it makes me sick just to think about the whole thing.

I don't care how good he was as a boxer, he's lost the right to be judged alongside his peers. He was involved in organised cheating which resulted in robbing decent men out of what was due to them. As far as I'm concerned his name should be stricken from the records.

[Back Hand Slap]

Again and again and again and again......

One fucked up fight and Ottke became the reincarnation of evil. Give it a break. Reid deserved to get the win, we all agree on that. Please don´t judge Ottke only by that shitty fight...

Ottke is a fanny and his antics robbed Reid as well as the terrible ref and judges. it was an absolute disgrace, Reid won handily. The same think happened with Mitchel and Brewer, and Larsen i believe. Worst champion ever and i give him no respect.:hi:

[JustinD]

I'd like to hear some of the german ESB members thoughts on this fight, what a disgrace.

[madballster]

I'm German. I said it in another thread. Ottke was a disgrace for boxing. I don't have so much hate for Ottke himself as for his delusional fans, the audience. The audience that was booing Reid and cheer leading Ottke while poor Reid was getting robbed in the most disgraceful way in front of their very eyes.

And that wasn't the only fight Ottke looked bad in. There were a couple of others. But Ottke was their hometown hero. So they cheered for him. Terrible.

[AndrewFFC]

I don't care how good he was as a boxer, he's lost the right to be judged alongside his peers. He was involved in organised cheating which resulted in robbing decent men out of what was due to them. As far as I'm concerned his name should be stricken from the records.

Spot on.

[AndrewFFC]

I recently read that Ottke cheated on his wife after he retired, then he lost most of his money to her. Such us life. In the interview he said he's pretty much broke now.


Theres a real poetic beauty to that.

[IntentionalButt]

Not sure if this has been covered...

Why did he turn pro so late? (30? :scaredas: And became a titlist? That's something, even if it's not an ATG resume)

[Boro chris]

Anyone that thinks Ottke was an innocent passenger on the 'delusion express' that he was riding is in dreamland. To be quite honest, it makes me sick just to think about the whole thing.

I don't care how good he was as a boxer, he's lost the right to be judged alongside his peers. He was involved in organised cheating which resulted in robbing decent men out of what was due to them. As far as I'm concerned his name should be stricken from the records.

Superb post! I'm not saying he was untalented as he was clearly a clever and tricky opponent, just that when you have knowledge of the scorecards throughout the fight that shit just isn't fair.

Also the way he behaved in that one fight against Reid was SO disgraceful it quite rightly taints his whole career.

[Beeston Brawler]

Who ACTUALLY beat Ottke?

A fair few of his fights were close - some he blatantly lost, others were simply close.

Thoughts, guys?

[LHL]

I have seen a lot of people claim Glen Johnson was robbed but read from others that it was a solid win for Sven

[madballster]

Not sure if this has been covered...

Why did he turn pro so late? (30? :scaredas: And became a titlist? That's something, even if it's not an ATG resume)He always said the "pro business was dirty" and he didn't want to take part in it. I am not making this stuff up, this is what he said before he turned pro. Ironically his fights went on to become some of the worst examples of robbery in the ring.

He got an offer from Sauerland promotion to turn pro with the support of the trainer of his choice, his only choice: Uli Wegner. Ottke said that if he ever was to become a pro he'd only do it under Wegner. Somehow Sauerland hammered out a deal between the three parties involved.

[IntentionalButt]

He always said the "pro business was dirty" and he didn't want to take part in it. I am not making this stuff up, this is what he said before he turned pro. Ironically his fights went on to become some of the worst examples of robbery in the ring.

He got an offer from Sauerland promotion to turn pro with the support of the trainer of his choice, his only choice: Uli Wegner. Ottke said that if he ever was to become a pro he'd only do it under Wegner. Somehow Sauerland hammered out a deal between the three parties involved.

Would I have heard of anyone else in Wegner's stable? Why was he so in demand?

edit: n/m...Valuev, Abraham, Beyer....:good

[will8801]

I think he was a decent enough champion.

The odd thing is, that if Reid had knocked him out cold in the first 30secs his legacy would have been thought of much better now.

'Winning' that dodgy decision is probably the worst thing that could have happened to him.

I hated him for years after that fight though.

[andyZOR]

Calzaghe would of whooped his ass...

[Mr Butt]

Calzaghe would of whooped his ass...



not in germany :lol:

[MrPR]

Hes overrated

[UndisputedUK]

I used to hate him because of the Reid fight.

I repent.

He was a skilled defensive wizard, he frustrated guys like Johnson and knocked out guys like Mundine.

The Reid fight still angers me, but overall, Sven was a classic spoiler and one of the best defensive fighters I've ever seen.

Without home judges he might have had a few losses, but that shouldn't detract from his skills.

He was boring as shit, though.

Anger in the Reid fight?

The whole lot should have been arrested and the fight investigated.
You cannot warn a fighter for throwing normal punches at the opponent.
Reid had a legitimate knockdown ruled a slip and then in the same round deducted a point for some "infringement".
Reid clearly won 3 out of the first 4 rounds.
Round 5, Ottke goes in with the head, Ottke warned then Reid too! Reid hits Ottke with a good right hand, Reid warned for hitting Ottke!
Round 4, warning for putting the head in, when Ottke did it, no warnings.
Round 6, Reid knocks down Ottke with a left hook. Should have been 08-10. Reid deducted a point for a headbutt that never caused any injury to Ottke 10-08. Reid should have been up at least 5/6 points going into round 7.
Strangely Reid won the later round or two that I thought he lost clearly, because at that point they probably had Ottke so well ahead and did not want to make it too obvious perhaps with a 120-108?
This farce, Pantomime was on TV, Reid should have won the WBA and IBF title that night to go along with his WBC.

[madballster]

not in germany :lol:Didn't Calzaghe come to Germany once? I think he knocked out Veith in one fight not too long ago :D

[Bodysnatcher]

Anger in the Reid fight?

The whole lot should have been arrested and the fight investigated.
You cannot warn a fighter for throwing normal punches at the opponent.
Reid had a legitimate knockdown ruled a slip and then in the same round deducted a point for some "infringement".
Reid clearly won 3 out of the first 4 rounds.
Round 5, Ottke goes in with the head, Ottke warned then Reid too! Reid hits Ottke with a good right hand, Reid warned for hitting Ottke!
Round 4, warning for putting the head in, when Ottke did it, no warnings.
Round 6, Reid knocks down Ottke with a left hook. Should have been 08-10. Reid deducted a point for a headbutt that never caused any injury to Ottke 10-08. Reid should have been up at least 5/6 points going into round 7.
Strangely Reid won the later round or two that I thought he lost clearly, because at that point they probably had Ottke so well ahead and did not want to make it too obvious perhaps with a 120-108?
This farce, Pantomime was on TV, Reid should have won the WBA and IBF title that night to go along with his WBC.

What angers me more than anything was Sven's behaviour during that fight.

He would get hit with a clean punch and then stare at the Ref with this imploring, hurt expression, as if to say "what are you gonna do about this?"

I can understand corrupt promoters and corrupt TV networks and corrupt judges and referees.

I don't like them, but it's boxing - it's a dirty business.

But a fighter who's in on it?

I can't forgive that.

[patscorpio]

With all due respect to Sven, it was the kids 11th pro fight with no amateur career or sparring partners.
a fight he was losing big time....this is pretty much the only fight in his career i respect cuz he dug deep and pulled a convincing comeback win

[Flurry]

If you could stay awake during his fights you would be able to see that Ottke was a crafty fighter. As far as the criticism he gets, I'm all for it. His bitching in the Reid fight was shameful. Dodgy decisions aside, that fight was a complete sham.


:rofl
I was waiting for a comment like that. I ve seen all or all bar one of his fights and with the exception of the mundine and the brewster fights most of his other matches fights were complete bores, but that mainly due to the fact he made them boring by schooling the opponents. He simply was so hard to catch.
Reid fight was when he was in decline, he lost the fight, what made the fight a scandal was the biasedness of the ref, he looked as if hed been bribed if you ask me. I never fancied Ottkes style - in no way - but you have to give him he was a slippery awkward bastard to fight, in his prime he showed elusiveness, speed and fascinating reflexes.
On the bad side: He had this habbit of coming in, throw a flurry and then clinch immediately which he probably wouldnt have gotten away with had he fought abroad

[Farmboxer]

Ottke was good boxer.

[Jan(DK)]

Ottke was a very good but doll fighter. What he did, he did very well. Not a big puncher. He "stole" rounds. He trowed 2-3 punch combination and hold again and again. Enough to win round after round. And then he had a perfect defense. Very difficult to get a decision i Germany. I.l guess a KO would have won the fight, but as i remember it, no one was anywhere near a TKO/KO against Ottke.

[agusta]

Sven Ottke was a good fighter, but I didn't like him. He was very, very boring!

And I don't like, that Ottke in his career got three or four very controversial dicisions. The first fight against Charles Brewer was a robbery, and Robin Reid and Mads Larsen should have gotten the dicisions aginst Ottke. But in Germany you are behind on the cards, before the fight is started.

Sven Ottke was always told, when he was in front on the cards. Against Larsen, Ottke knew before the final round, that was ahead on points, and therefore he just ran away in round 12. That's robbery. That's Sauerland fix.

I don't like Sven Ottke, and I'm happy, that he is retired.

[Pusnuts]

Ottke was a fairly good Euro level champ which was he and his management knew their limitations and never challenged Calzaghe and resolved on dodgy refs and judges instead and guys that Calzaghe had beaten beforehand. I dont like him for aforementioned bitch tactis like complaining about non existent low blows and generally being boring and that whole german management circus makes me puke lol

[Mr Butt]

if margarito is given a tough time for cheating and not thought of very highly then ottke deserves the same. dirty german cheat i have re-watched the reid fight and now see that ottke clearly knows the fix is in what a pile of shit he is.

[Boro chris]

Anger in the Reid fight?

This farce, Pantomime was on TV, Reid should have won the WBA and IBF title that night to go along with his WBC.


Reid is completely dismissed as a fighter nowadays. (Mainly because he's a Calzaghe victim:D) His standing would've been much higher if he'd been given a fair hand by those crooks!

[Vanihm]

When Ottke fought, he was being told the scores, while his opponent heard nothing. Therefore he knew EXACTLY when to relax and when to focus. Without this knowledge he would definitely have lost against Reid and Larsen.

I only saw those two fights, but DAMN Larsen was so robbed. In Olympic boxing you can get away with taking 50 punches to the gloves and throwing one pit pat punch in a round and winning it, but in pro boxing - no way. And he often RAN from his opponents in rounds he could afford to lose without fighting at all - that would get you DQ'd 99% of the time in the pros (OK, Calzaghe got away with a career of cuffing and rabbit punching, but then again he at least put up a fight).

Ottke was criminal, theres no other word for it.

[paddymickey]

The Botoom line for me is Ottke was a good boxer with decent ability BUT would have been destroyed by the likes of Calzaghe or anyone near that level. Ottke never got the change to prove his worth by staing at home being protected.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The Botoom line for me is Ottke was a good boxer with decent ability BUT would have been destroyed by the likes of Calzaghe or anyone near that level. Ottke never got the change to prove his worth by staing at home being protected.


Why did Cal dodge him, offering him 20%, with two belts, to Cal's one. And that was less than Ottka got for fighting anyone in Gemrany.

Once Cal backed out with bad hands too. The next time it was fight in Manchester for 20%.....lots less than Ottka got in Germany....Actually I think Ottka was makeing more than Cal...per fight.
At that time.
Did take Brewer's belt, by being faster, as Brewer said.
True Cal did Ko him, but Ko was not Ottka's style.

[China_hand_Joe]

Reid was easily the best fighter Ottke fought and would have had a good chance against Hopkins at the turn of the millenium.

[Bo Bo Olson]

As for Reid, a cuffed blow is illegal and don't count. Not a single cuffed blow counts. It's in all the rules.....like rabbit punching and punching to the kidneys...don't count...cuffed blows can break ear drums.

So Reid did hit Ottka a lot...but because they were illegal...they don't count on the score cards.

Had Reid not changed strategy in the 8th, I think he could have won, but he changed his strategy, and started doing exactly what Ottka wanted him to do.


Ottka the Body Ram...I always thought after boxing he'd go into ice hocky as a defence man.
He didn't just clinch, he rammed his body into them.

I had always wondered how any one with such an unaccaurate right hand could ever be Champ.

In his last fight, where he retired unexpectedly...he'd gone for the KO, and by god, he had an accurate right hand. Shocked me completely.

I am slow from time to time....all that time he'd been pounding their left shoulder from round one on...so in the last three rounds, it would hurt to throw a quick jab or hook...giving Ottka that eye blink to do something about it.
That is why he always took the last two or three rounds. Their shoulders hurt enough they had to think or will them selves to throw that punch.

His whole staratagy was beat up the guy's left shoulder and smash him in the body, with a body ram.

So dammed sneaky I'd watched from fight 13-15 on and never picked up on the shoulder beating. I'd never seen even Ruiz clinch like he was an ice skater defence man, putting some on into the boards.

[skier47]

The only fight I got to see of Ottke was an early internet-streamed fight between him and Mundine. Mundine was supposed to the greatest athlete to walk the planet according to a lot of Austrailan media types and fans and would expose this supposed German fraud. Well he got nearly killed when he got caught by the supposedly light hitting Ottke. I knew then that Ottke was just another vastly underated European fighter. Everybody was saying Calzaghe was unproven and a weak champ until he wiped the floor with a boatload of overated American fighters. Ottke would have done the same if they had the courage to travel to Germany as Mundine did.

[Mr Butt]

getting of the ottke subject as its pretty worn out now who are the best 5 german fighters (non-belt holders) to look out for.i am meaning proper german, ie born in germany

[FROST]

getting of the ottke subject as its pretty worn out now who are the best 5 german fighters (non-belt holders) to look out for.i am meaning proper german, ie born in germany

I'm too lazy to name 5 fighters, but Graciano Roccighiani was really good. During his short prime, he was just as good as Henri Maske in my book. A pity Rocky was unpopular and got robbed and ripped off so much. He was better than the dull Sven Ottke.

[FROST]

getting of the ottke subject as its pretty worn out now who are the best 5 german fighters (non-belt holders) to look out for.i am meaning proper german, ie born in germany

oh, did you mean active fighters?

[Mr Butt]

oh, did you mean active fighters?


yeah active prospects that have not yet hit the world scene:good

[IntentionalButt]

Would you believe nobody's put together any Ottke highlight videos (or at least not published them on the web in such a way that they show up on a search)? :blood Almost every recent champion level fighter, regardless of how exciting their style is or isn't, has at least one HL video floating around.

He looks really good here in beating up Charles Brewer, this is I guess the closest thing to a highlight reel.
MKUrUBybifI

He's got an almost old-timey style, exploding forth out of a crouch to deliver pitty-pat, almost shoe-shining flurries and then either clinching/shoving or covering up and doing a quick trot out of range whilst also making his upper body a mobile target. Seems the type of style that's solid gold in the amateurs.

[TFFP]

Would you believe nobody's put together any Ottke highlight videos (or at least not published them on the web in such a way that they show up on a search)? :blood Almost every recent champion level fighter, regardless of how exciting their style is or isn't, has at least one HL video floating around.

He looks really good here in beating up Charles Brewer, this is I guess the closest thing to a highlight reel.
MKUrUBybifI

He's got an almost old-timey style, exploding forth out of a crouch to deliver pitty-pat, almost shoe-shining flurries and then either clinching/shoving or covering up and doing a quick trot out of range whilst also making his upper body a mobile target. Seems the type of style that's solid gold in the amateurs.
The great thing about that style is he keeps defensively sound, but when he does his little flurries they suddenly look all the more impressive because he does little work inbetween. It gets the crowd roaring into life and I'm sure it impacts things...

[IntentionalButt]

What would have happened in that rumored old-timer match-up between he and Tiger Michalzcewski last year? :think

[Serenata]

The fight was cancled due to money problems of the manager. Michalzcewski got insider information and left the talking.

[IntentionalButt]

The fight was cancled due to money problems of the manager. Michalzcewski got insider information and left the talking.

Sorry if I didn't phrase that very clearly. I was asking what would have happened had it actually taken place? Would it have been one of those crapshoots like Nelson-Fenech where there's no way of knowing what either guy can bring after a long layoff?

[Pusnuts]

Ottke was ok but anyone that doesnt think he avoided Calzaghe (who tried plenty of times and even offered to come to Germany) is dreaming. Hes always a B-champ for me for not fighting the best and sometimes relying on others to get his wins (judges and refs).
That Robin Reid was a stitch-up and that was just one.
As for KOing Mundine, well done but Mundine was a 12 fight near novice, true story, the guy had never even fought as an amateur. He improved a lot since then.

[emanuel_augustus]

Ottke is extremely underrated. A defensive master who was able to take an incredibly tight, efficient amateur style and make it work as a pro. Really, it's very fitting that he's German, considering how methodical and precise his style was.

His matchmakers put him in smartly, that is, against big single punchers that he could outbox. Still, I always enjoyed watching Ottke's defense, balance and ring generalship.

[Serenata]

Sorry if I didn't phrase that very clearly. I was asking what would have happened had it actually taken place? Would it have been one of those crapshoots like Nelson-Fenech where there's no way of knowing what either guy can bring after a long layoff?

Oh, sorry misunderstood your question. :patsch

Who knows, both coming from a long layoff. Prime for prime I think Dariuz would have worn him down, but Ottke truly was a master of defence and very good at avoiding damage.

[madballster]

I didn't enjoy a single of Ottke's fights. They were all trash. I liked the first couple of rounds when Mundine outboxed Ottke, until he got KTFO that is.

[Mr Butt]

Ottke is extremely underrated. A defensive master who was able to take an incredibly tight, efficient amateur style and make it work as a pro. Really, it's very fitting that he's German, considering how methodical and precise his style was.

His matchmakers put him in smartly, that is, against big single punchers that he could outbox. Still, I always enjoyed watching Ottke's defense, balance and ring generalship.


as has been said he will always be considered a B-level champion and for the reasons you yourself stated :think.

[klompton]

Svenn Ottke wasnt bad but he wasnt anywhere near great either. He had a LOT of help from hometown officials in several of his fights.

Larsen
Reid
Mitchell
Johnson
Brewer 1
Tate 1

Dont forget he lost every round of his fight to ten fight newcomer Mundine before landing one of the luckiest punches in the history of the sport. How does a champion get dominated by a guy with only ten fights?? Ridiculous.

[bodhi]

Dont forget he lost every round of his fight to ten fight newcomer Mundine before landing one of the luckiest punches in the history of the sport. How does a champion get dominated by a guy with only ten fights?? Ridiculous.

I think differently here. That was not a lucky punch. Ottke could punch if he had to he just never commited to his punches due to his defensive minded style. He wanted to score points not knocking people out.

Larsen - could have gone either way. Both didn´t earn the win imho. No robbery!
Reid - he lost that one definitly but he also was past it then. This was a robbery and a bad one!
Mitchell - could have gone either way. champ and hometown bonus. So this is okay. No robbery!
Johnson - no way! This one is made up. Watch the fight! This was a 8-4 win for Ottke. No robbery!
Brewer 1 - Close fight. Personally, I thought Brewer edged it but an argument for Ottke could be made to. No robbery!
Tate 1 - Imho this one was a close but clear win for Ottke. 7-5 I think I had it. No robbery!

Quite a few of the "robberies" aren´t robberies but close fights in which the champ and hometown fighter got the benefit of the doubt. A thing that happens every day all over the world but because of the bad rep of Germany every close fight there is a robbery which manages people like Glen Johnson- who I really like as a fighter, old school! - to claim he was robbes when this was clearly not a robbery. But people didn´t see the fight, believed him and the reputation got even worse.
Ottke´s in so many controversial decisions because of two things. First, he was told the score in between rounds so he could adjust his tactic accordingly. This was an unfair advantage he had. Secondly, wehen he knew he already won the fight, he didn´t do sh*t anymore. He just ran. I still can hear is trainer telling him "just do as if you were punching" in some of his fights. He stopped fighting and started running - comparable to ODLH-Trinidad - and so made the fights closer than they really were.

Like emanuel_augustus wrote he was a great technician and tactician with incredible footwork, stamina, judge of range, balance and defensive skills. And he was smart. With the right manager he could have become a real fighter with a resume and a legacy instead of a cash cow. Sad story actually.

[melko]

Svenn Ottke wasnt bad but he wasnt anywhere near great either. He had a LOT of help from hometown officials in several of his fights.

Larsen
Reid
Mitchell
Johnson
Brewer 1
Tate 1

Dont forget he lost every round of his fight to ten fight newcomer Mundine before landing one of the luckiest punches in the history of the sport. How does a champion get dominated by a guy with only ten fights?? Ridiculous.


100% true, Ottke -the most borring, luckiest, less skilled champion I've ever seen.

[Serenata]

100% true, Ottke -the most borring, luckiest, less skilled champion I've ever seen.

newbie fail.

Why? Read the fu***** thread...

[Flurry]

I didn't enjoy a single of Ottke's fights. They were all trash. I liked the first couple of rounds when Mundine outboxed Ottke, until he got KTFO that is.

Mundine outboxed ottke for a few rounds only, i had the bout even or ottke ahead a round at the time of the stoppage with mundine fading badly due to his lack of stamina, im pretty sure ottke would have beaten him on points in case he hadnt koed him.

[emanuel_augustus]

I think differently here. That was not a lucky punch. Ottke could punch if he had to he just never commited to his punches due to his defensive minded style. He wanted to score points not knocking people out.

Larsen - could have gone either way. Both didn´t earn the win imho. No robbery!
Reid - he lost that one definitly but he also was past it then. This was a robbery and a bad one!
Mitchell - could have gone either way. champ and hometown bonus. So this is okay. No robbery!
Johnson - no way! This one is made up. Watch the fight! This was a 8-4 win for Ottke. No robbery!
Brewer 1 - Close fight. Personally, I thought Brewer edged it but an argument for Ottke could be made to. No robbery!
Tate 1 - Imho this one was a close but clear win for Ottke. 7-5 I think I had it. No robbery!

This is exactly spot on. The only disgraceful fight was the Reid fight. All of these others were close. The first Brewer fight was hugely controversial at the time, but if you really score it with precision and objectivity that fight is a draw or a one point win either way. Very close, but in no way a robbery.

These other "robberies" people give are just simply not accurate or from people who have a. never actually seen the fight or b. don't know how to score rounds

[Flurry]

This is exactly spot on. The only disgraceful fight was the Reid fight. All of these others were close. The first Brewer fight was hugely controversial at the time, but if you really score it with precision and objectivity that fight is a draw or a one point win either way. Very close, but in no way a robbery.

These other "robberies" people give are just simply not accurate or from people who have a. never actually seen the fight or b. don't know how to score rounds

spot on :good

reid = robbery
then first brewster and larsen fights close
rest of the lot were Ottke's and won fair and square

Incidentally i have watched the first Brewster fight a few times back in the day and eachtime had ottke nicking it by a round or two. True, Brewster landed the more noticeable, the heavier punches and he bruised ottke's face up badly, but Ottke all in all connected with considerably more punches even though they were pitty pat punches with no power behind them, but if you score each round on the base of what was thrown and then add the rounds up on either side you come to the point it was a give or take fight that could have gone either way.

Im the first to admit had the fight been staged in the US Brewster would have gotten the decision, but theres a home advantage everywhere on the globe.

[Serenata]

I agree to you both :)

[Flurry]

I agree to you both :)

why thanks, we two seem to agree a lot lately, serenata :lol:

[Serenata]

why thanks, we two seem to agree a lot lately, serenata :lol:

Must be that we´re both quite clever :D:D:D

[Flurry]

Must be that we´re both quite clever :D:D:D


:lol: :lol:

perhaps its because of that.

[melko]

newbie fail.

:patsch

[20a87]

hometown decision and hometown ottke decisions are two wildly different things in the respect that ottke doesn't have to be competitive to win he just has to last the distance

[pugilist64]

I was going to post this on the general but just thought of the abuse :lol:

I have seen him a few times he was a pretty solid boxer. Tell me what you thought of him, his best wins and all that. The guy gets all sorts of abuse but he was good.

If you can answer these questions it would be great as well:

Who was his promoter and why did he take so long to step up.

He doesn`t deserve any respect at all. His pathetic performance against Robin Reid was enough. He looked at the ref every 10 seconds and the ref would warn Reid for some imaginary infringement. The ref warned Reid after he unsportingly clobbered Ottke to the head with a right and floored him. Apparently in Germany it`s bad manners to floor the champ. I honestly thought Ottke was going to burst into tears at any minute. He fought like a big girls blouse.

[bodhi]

hometown decision and hometown ottke decisions are two wildly different things in the respect that ottke doesn't have to be competitive to win he just has to last the distance

Obviously you haven't seen one of his fights. :-(

[20a87]

Obviously you haven't seen one of his fights. :-(

yeah if i dont happen to agree with you i must have never seen the slick ottke box

[rayrobinson]

ottke was absolutely average , but did a very good job for the exposure of boxing in germany , which is a definate positive , was also getting 1 million euros a fight so had no need to travel . Some of the decisions that went his way were very wrong i remember the referee pratically telling reid to stop hitting him , anthony mundine was a 10 fight novice and ahead on the cards , and mitchell hammered him from pillar to post and lost by SD, with only 6 knockouts he wouldnt have needed to be a great boxer to remain unbeaten , ala calderon , but german tv made sure he didnt lose.

[sitiyzal]

"mitchell hammered him from pillar to post"??...nonsense.

[bodhi]

ottke was absolutely average , but did a very good job for the exposure of boxing in germany , which is a definate positive , was also getting 1 million euros a fight so had no need to travel . Some of the decisions that went his way were very wrong i remember the referee pratically telling reid to stop hitting him , anthony mundine was a 10 fight novice and ahead on the cards , and mitchell hammered him from pillar to post and lost by SD, with only 6 knockouts he wouldnt have needed to be a great boxer to remain unbeaten , ala calderon , but german tv made sure he didnt lose.

First think, then post or read the fuckin' thread. You obviously haven't even seen half he fights you are talking about :verysad

[Flurry]

and mitchell hammered him from pillar to post and lost by SD,

:nono he hammered him in the last round only, without being able to drop him btw, you re right the SD verdict was a joke, Ottke should have won by comfortable UD instead

[Serenata]

Obviously you haven't seen one of his fights. :-(

Get used to it, Sven Ottke is the incarnation of the devil on ESB. He lost all his fights, couldn´t box at all, knew all scores and slept with judges....

:!:

[melko]

Get used to it, Sven Ottke is the incarnation of the devil on ESB. He lost all his fights, couldn´t box at all, knew all scores and slept with judges....

:!:

not only on ESB. It is quite common on other forums, many experts also would agree ona how average Ottke was. Check out YT and comments under each of his fights. So many people can't be wrong.

[Will]

Why did Cal dodge him, offering him 20%, with two belts, to Cal's one. And that was less than Ottka got for fighting anyone in Gemrany.

Once Cal backed out with bad hands too. The next time it was fight in Manchester for 20%.....lots less than Ottka got in Germany....Actually I think Ottka was makeing more than Cal...per fight.
At that time.
Did take Brewer's belt, by being faster, as Brewer said.
True Cal did Ko him, but Ko was not Ottka's style.

Don't know where you've got your info from (Sources Please).

And it's well known that Ottke was making more money. It is a well documented fact that the only boxer to have made more money than Ottke in his career is Oscar!

It's also well documented that Calzaghe offered to go and fight Ottke in Germany!

[Serenata]

Eat shit, millions of flies cannot be wrong

[Will]

Oh and the source to back up my above comments is....

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Serenata]

"said ******" is not a reliable source. ;)

[Flurry]

Get used to it, Sven Ottke is the incarnation of the devil on ESB. He lost all his fights, couldn´t box at all, knew all scores and slept with judges....



most of them are brits, they must feel giving Ottke due credit ìs tantamount to losing the war 60 years after the event

[Serenata]

To use that logic is like:

The british soccer team of 1966 is a disgrace for the sport because of the wembley goal!

[Will]

"said ******" is not a reliable source. ;)

Can't argue with that. I take much of what ****** says with a pinch of salt.

Only posted it as a source.

Not necesarily a reliable one! lol

[bailey]

Ottke was a good boxer, but having had so many close decisions go his way, at home taints his legacy a bit. He did beat some good quality fighters though and not wanting to fight Calzaghe hasnt seemed to have harmed his legacy.
I dont think he would have beat Calzaghe.
Good boxer but we'll never know just how good

[Serenata]

I think both Ottke and Calzaghe did the same effords to fight each other. I think Joe would have beaten Sven (but not 100% sure about that because Ottke was quite fast), but it seemed they where avoiding each other.

[Mr Butt]

calzaghe would beat ottke everytime

[bailey]

I think both Ottke and Calzaghe did the same effords to fight each other. I think Joe would have beaten Sven (but not 100% sure about that because Ottke was quite fast), but it seemed they where avoiding each other.
I did read an article where Svens trainer wanted Sven to meet Calzaghe but he said Sven wasnt interested, and I remember Sven saying he wasnt after Calzaghe cause he didnt have any of the belts he wanted. Shame for boxing really

[pugilist64]

Ottke was a good fighter and would have given all but the true elites problems because of his defense, but his unwillingness to test himself away from home definitely hurts his legacy.

That, and the fact that he won every close decision. And the Reid fight. I'd defend Ottke as simply being the pawn of his promoter, but watching that bout you can see that Sven is complicit in the sham. He continually pleads with the ref anytime Reid is even remotely aggressive against him, so I just can't defend the guy.

I'd have nothing bad to say about Ottke if he'd have picked up a belt, maybe lost a fight or two, and taking on A-opponents in more challenging environments.

Here here. Exactly right. He was looking to the ref every 10 seconds for help and the ref obliged. It was a concious decision on his part to do this against a fellow professional. Ottke in my book is a cheat plain and simple. He gets zero respect from me.

[pugilist64]

Didn't Calzaghe come to Germany once? I think he knocked out Veith in one fight not too long ago :D

He took a chance in that one. He could have got disqualified for KOing Viet.

[pugilist64]

:lol::lol::lol:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Flurry]

envy oh such envy...

[Beeston Brawler]

I did read an article where Svens trainer wanted Sven to meet Calzaghe but he said Sven wasnt interested, and I remember Sven saying he wasnt after Calzaghe cause he didnt have any of the belts he wanted. Shame for boxing really

I've read the same article.

It was in Boxing Monthly about two years ago.

In fairness, why would Ottke bother - he had two of the three titles, Calzaghe only had a fringe title, despite being the best fighter in the division.

Would you risk two three bedroom detached houses to win a one bedroom flat in a shitty area - that you are going to rent out anyway :lol:

That said, Calzaghe would have destroyed him anyway......

[Flurry]

I've read the same article.

It was in Boxing Monthly about two years ago.

In fairness, why would Ottke bother - he had two of the three titles, Calzaghe only had a fringe title, despite being the best fighter in the division.

Would you risk two three bedroom detached houses to win a one bedroom flat in a shitty area - that you are going to rent out anyway :lol:

That said, Calzaghe would have destroyed him anyway......

Beeston, Cal could IMHO never have "destroyed" Prime Ottke, the Kraut was too fast and too elusive for that. He had superb footwork and reflexes and still considerable handspeed (with little power) that almost matched Calzaghes. Ottke faced numerous hard punchers that chased him in the ring in his times trying to behead him and he practically never got into trouble. A Calzaghe points decision is all I might take into consideration but even that i doubt. The way to fight him was the way Reid did it until the 6th though this came late in Ottkes career, namely to wait for Ottke to inititiate the exchange.
In the end we'll never know.

[skel1983]

Calzaghe would murder Ottke.

[Serenata]

Calzaghe would murder Ottke.

Now? Yes
Then? No

[E-B]

Here here. Exactly right. He was looking to the ref every 10 seconds for help and the ref obliged. It was a concious decision on his part to do this against a fellow professional. Ottke in my book is a cheat plain and simple. He gets zero respect from me.

Exactly, more than anything, that fight showed he was more than a useful idiot.

(...)A Calzaghe points decision is all I might take into consideration but even that i doubt(...)

Whether you realize it or not, you're making perfect sense. In Germany, winning every round would most likely result in a close split decision.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Flurry]

Whether you realize it or not, you're making perfect sense. In Germany, winning every round would most likely result in a close split decision.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Theres been at least as many bad decisions outside of germany, its merely a stereotype that fits people's agendas. I still remember how Sturm and Schulz were robbed on the two noteworthy occasions german based fighters fought for a title in the US and "lost" on points.

You probably havent seen much of Ottke back in his days.

[bodhi]

Theres been at least as many bad decisions outside of germany, its merely a stereotype that fits people's agendas. I still remember how Sturm and Schulz were robbed on the two noteworthy occasions german based fighters fought for a title in the US and "lost" on points.

You probably havent seen much of Ottke back in his days.

That guy is just a troll. Ignore him.

[E-B]

Theres been at least as many bad decisions outside of germany, its merely a stereotype that fits people's agendas. I still remember how Sturm and Schulz were robbed on the two noteworthy occasions german based fighters fought for a title in the US and "lost" on points.

You probably havent seen much of Ottke back in his days.

Oscar and George didn't take advantage of a corrupt environment like Sven did, nor were any of those two fights as lopsided as the Reid fight. Please name one modern champ that was as protected as Ottke. Knowing the scorecards after every round...it's pathetic that Germans are sticking up for this crook even after the facts are out.

Bodhi, there's nothing cool about posting 500 times a month to begin with, so cut out the additional spam.:-((

[bodhi]

Oscar and George didn't take advantage of a corrupt environment like Sven did, nor were any of those two fights as lopsided as the Reid fight. Please name one modern champ that was as protected as Ottke. Knowing the scorecards after every round...it's pathetic that Germans are sticking up for this crook even after the facts are out.

Bodhi, there's nothing cool about posting 500 times a month to begin with, so cut out the additional spam.:-((

:dead

[Serenata]

:dead

Ich hätte es nicht besser sagen können....

Stop wasting time with someone who does not want to dicuss. Let me guess: Hating Ottke, no objective view on the Reid fight (and YES Reid should have won the fight) and wannabe funny Klitschko avatar -> he must be british and about 15 years old....

[Flurry]

Oscar and George didn't take advantage of a corrupt environment like Sven did, nor were any of those two fights as lopsided as the Reid fight. Please name one modern champ that was as protected as Ottke. Knowing the scorecards after every round...it's pathetic that Germans are sticking up for this crook even after the facts are out.

Bodhi, there's nothing cool about posting 500 times a month to begin with, so cut out the additional spam.:-((


Id call KIng pretty corrupt and wasnt Arum involved in the IBF scandal as well? :yep

As to Reid: that s the only robbery to be found in ottkes resume, theres a couple more close calls and the rest of his career matches went his way fair and square

[E-B]

Id call KIng pretty corrupt and wasnt Arum involved in the IBF scandal as well? :yep

As to Reid: that s the only robbery to be found in ottkes resume, theres a couple more close calls and the rest of his career matches went his way fair and square

Once again, name one fighter than was as protected as Ottke.

King and Arum aren't the only dirtbags in US boxing (at least Ottke was getting paid)...but which of their fighters was as protected as Sven? Let's stay on topic here...otherwise those two dummies will accuse you of "does not want to discuss".:lol:

If Reid is the only robbery on Ottke's resume, then Sturm wasn't robbed either. I'll give you Schultz, crappy boxer, but he beat Foreman that night...Foreman didn't take advantage of a corrupt ref and wasn't informed of the scorecards, tho. My real beef with Ottke is how he took advantage of the situation...otherwise he'd be a decent, albeit protected champ.

[Flurry]

Once again, name one fighter than was as protected as Ottke.

King and Arum aren't the only dirtbags in US boxing (at least Ottke was getting paid)...but which of their fighters was as protected as Sven? Let's stay on topic here...otherwise those two dummies will accuse you of "does not want to discuss".:lol:

If Reid is the only robbery on Ottke's resume, then Sturm wasn't robbed either. I'll give you Schultz, crappy boxer, but he beat Foreman that night...Foreman didn't take advantage of a corrupt ref and wasn't informed of the scorecards, tho. My real beef with Ottke is how he took advantage of the situation...otherwise he'd be a decent, albeit protected champ.

Sturm should have been given the nod by 8-4 rounds, arguably. In my opinion the fight wasnt close, seen from yank perspective DLH threw more and landed much less, I believe they call it "ineffective aggressiveness". :D

Id not call Ottke a protected fighter. In his last year as professional he fought the likes of Mitchel, the awkward Brit whose name I have forgotten, Larsen and then reid all in succession, thats not one single easy tune up fight in between and mind you Ottke was nearing his retirement. He also fought brewer twice, tate twice, Butler and greg johnson, MUndine and lots of other top tier opponents. Ottke became champ on only his 14th pro bout already, hes not been fed with all too many bums. His last opponent though as former middle weight champ was a farewell present, admittedly, a man that allowed him to shine

[bailey]

Sturm should have been given the nod by 8-4 rounds, arguably. In my opinion the fight wasnt close, seen from yank perspective DLH threw more and landed much less, I believe they call it "ineffective aggressiveness". :D

Id not call Ottke a protected fighter. In his last year as professional he fought the likes of Mitchel, the awkward Brit whose name I have forgotten, Larsen and then reid all in succession, thats not one single easy tune up fight in between and mind you Ottke was nearing his retirement. He also fought brewer twice, tate twice, Butler and greg johnson, MUndine and lots of other top tier opponents. Ottke became champ on only his 14th pro bout already, hes not been fed with all too many bums. His last opponent though as former middle weight champ was a farewell present, admittedly, a man that allowed him to shine

The awkward Brit you mention was David Starie, not a bad fighter, but often appeared to not give his all, like when losing to Ottke and before that to Calzaghe. Earlier in D Staries career he gave Clinton Woods his 1st defeat at SMW before Woods moved up to become IBF LHW champ.
The Sturm - De La Hoya fight I thought was close, I thought on rounds Oscar just nicked it, but Sturm seemed to hurt Oscar. It was one of those fights where id say on scoring each round individually I just gave it to Oscar but if it was a continuous fight of 36 mins, id have given it to Sturm, if that makes any sense?

[Flurry]

The awkward Brit you mention was David Starie, not a bad fighter, but often appeared to not give his all, like when losing to Ottke and before that to Calzaghe. Earlier in D Staries career he gave Clinton Woods his 1st defeat at SMW before Woods moved up to become IBF LHW champ.
The Sturm - De La Hoya fight I thought was close, I thought on rounds Oscar just nicked it, but Sturm seemed to hurt Oscar. It was one of those fights where id say on scoring each round individually I just gave it to Oscar but if it was a continuous fight of 36 mins, id have given it to Sturm, if that makes any sense?


Another newbie to register these very days to immediately jump in and feed the Ottke thread :D Be welcomed

Starie, thats the name :good The fight was a borefest like many of ottkes later matches were, the opponent though was difficult to handle and battle- hardened. He had studied ottkes moves very well and made life difficult for sven.

[cubex]

Ottke molests children.

[E-B]

Sturm should have been given the nod by 8-4 rounds, arguably. In my opinion the fight wasnt close, seen from yank perspective DLH threw more and landed much less, I believe they call it "ineffective aggressiveness". :D

Id not call Ottke a protected fighter. In his last year as professional he fought the likes of Mitchel, the awkward Brit whose name I have forgotten, Larsen and then reid all in succession, thats not one single easy tune up fight in between and mind you Ottke was nearing his retirement. He also fought brewer twice, tate twice, Butler and greg johnson, MUndine and lots of other top tier opponents. Ottke became champ on only his 14th pro bout already, hes not been fed with all too many bums. His last opponent though as former middle weight champ was a farewell present, admittedly, a man that allowed him to shine

Top tier opponents? Ottke not only won bullshit decisions against most of the guys on that list, but the biggest name on there is Mundine (far from hall of fame material himself), who outboxed your undefeated champ for most of the fight in his 11th bout without an amateur career. If his fights happened outside of Germany, Ottke would have several losses on his record...anyone denying that is a joke.

[Flurry]

Top tier opponents? Ottke not only won bullshit decisions against most of the guys on that list, but the biggest name on there is Mundine (far from hall of fame material himself), who outboxed your undefeated champ for most of the fight in his 11th bout without an amateur career. If his fights happened outside of Germany, Ottke would have several losses on his record...anyone denying that is a joke.


Mundine and ottke were level on points when mundine ran out of gas fast and got koed clean - but Im realizing you re a troll prat and I have been wasting my time with you. Let me give you one piece of advice as farewell wish: Im not exactly sure what youre good at but assessing boxing fights is not one of your strengths :D

[E-B]

Being level on points in Germany vs Ottke = winning the fight.

I'm just glad nobody will be posting any more ridiculous excuses for that paper champ...was nice knowing ya!:thumbsup

[Flurry]

Wrong yet again, dont you feel embarrassed? He was level and slowly getting ahead after having caught up an early guest lead, cos mundine was visibly running out of steam and in that moment koed him clean, the only clear cut stunning one punch KO of ottkes career, whats controversial about that? still you keep babbling people make excuses for him what does that make you?

[P4PNo.1]

Was there ever talk of a Calzaghe/Ottke fight?

[E-B]

Wrong yet again, dont you feel embarrassed? He was level and slowly getting ahead after having caught up an early guest lead, cos mundine was visibly running out of steam and in that moment koed him clean, the only clear cut stunning one punch KO of ottkes career, whats controversial about that? still you keep babbling people make excuses for him what does that make you?

Shouldn't you be busy not-replying? :lol:

Mundine was even on the hometown score cards, he'd be ahead by 2 if he hadn't been a fouling asshole. Yes, he gassed and was stopped at the end of the 10th round, but how did he even get that far??? Mundine was a rugby player not too long ago. How exactly does a guy, who's been in the ring for less than a year, make an unbeaten veteran world champion look this silly? Remember, Mundine isn't exactly HOF material, either...

Why are you people going to great lengths to defend this paper champion anyway? Is it because he was the last racially pure German boxing star?:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Flurry]

Why are you people going to great lengths to defend this paper champion anyway? Is it because he was the last racially pure German boxing star?:lol: :lol: :lol:

What a trashy prick you are but Im glad you showed your true face with this post :D He was never one of my favourite fighters btw cos I was busy supporting racially pure Germans like Dariusz Michalczewski and the KLitschkos when Ottke was in his prime. Can people get banned for stupidity here?

[E-B]

Lighten up, buddy...remember, the stereotype predicts that Germans will get very defensive once someone brings up the past!:lol:

Regardless, you'll keep defending this crook and I'll just remind myself that it took an ex-rugby player less than a year of ring experience to outbox a paper champ.:thumbsup

[Flurry]

Lighten up, buddy...remember, the stereotype predicts that Germans will get very defensive once someone brings up the past!:lol:

Regardless, you'll keep defending this crook and I'll just remind myself that it took an ex-rugby player less than a year of ring experience to outbox a paper champ.:thumbsup

stereotype didnt work this time did it :D

Ottke was a pain to watch if you were looking for face to face entertainment, but from a technical point of view he was a marvel to behold, if you cant acknowledge that you ve never watched him fight, that having said Im not sad hes retired now :good as he wasnt my cup of tea stylewise speaking

[E-B]

I'm a fan of defensive boxing...Toney, PBF, Winky, B-Hop...Ottke had a tight defense, but he hardly made people pay...to me that's not technically marvellous, it's technically lackluster...but w/e;)

[Magges]

Was there ever talk of a Calzaghe/Ottke fight?
I think there was no real talk... just a little "pretalk" to clear the promoters position... But it was clear that this fight would have never happened... back in the days Calzaghe did not want to leave Wales and Ottke did not want to fight outside Germany....
BTW Calzaghe would have smashed Ottke or win the most boring UD the sprot ever saw if Ottke would have come in defensive and survival mode (he was hard to catch)

[melko]

:lol::lol::lol:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


nothing else to add... :good

[skel1983]

Now? Yes
Then? No


Anytime from 1997 to present, Ottke was wank. FACT

[Serenata]

... FACT

:patsch

[Will]

I think there was no real talk... just a little "pretalk" to clear the promoters position... But it was clear that this fight would have never happened... back in the days Calzaghe did not want to leave Wales and Ottke did not want to fight outside Germany....
BTW Calzaghe would have smashed Ottke or win the most boring UD the sprot ever saw if Ottke would have come in defensive and survival mode (he was hard to catch)

Actually Calzaghe was in the press saying he would go to Germany for the fight but Ottke wanted none of it.

Can't ever remember Ottke saying he'd come to UK.

It's all specuulation. Ottke had very decent defensive skills but mainly just conned his way through fights. I don't buy into the whole every decisiion he won was a loss. However I do feel he should have at least 2 if not 3 losses on his record. From memory deffinately the reid fight, the 1st brewer and also the larson fight.

[bodhi]

Actually Calzaghe was in the press saying he would go to Germany for the fight but Ottke wanted none of it.

Can't ever remember Ottke saying he'd come to UK.

It's all specuulation. Ottke had very decent defensive skills but mainly just conned his way through fights. I don't buy into the whole every decisiion he won was a loss. However I do feel he should have at least 2 if not 3 losses on his record. From memory deffinately the reid fight, the 1st brewer and also the larson fight.

Both are responsible for the fight not coming off. Their promoters even more then them.

Ottke did not have decent defensive skills. Not when you know what you are watching at. His biggest assets where his judge of range, stamina and footwork which really were up there with the best ever around his weightclass. The rest of his skills were slightly above average - aside from punching power. With another promoter he perhaps would have more losses but also would be remembered better and would have had an even better career.

He should have lost the Reid fight, I agree. Larson didn´t enough to win. It´s not Ottke who won but Larson who lost. Brewer is debatable, there are arguments for both sides. Ottke beat him clearly in the rematch though.

[Flurry]

Ottke did not have decent defensive skills. Not when you know what you are watching at. His biggest assets where his judge of range, stamina and footwork which really were up there with the best ever around his weightclass.

Very well said my bavarian friend :good

(frei übersetzt: I frei mi brutal, dös is goil!)

[Serenata]

Yes, our bavarian mate is right :good

(Frei übersetzt: Jo leck mich am Oarsch, do hodder recht)







:D

[Flurry]

Yes, our bavarian mate is right :good

(Frei übersetzt: Jo leck mich am Oarsch, do hodder recht)







:D

:lol:

[bodhi]

bodhi knows best! :deal

Fact of life ... :lol: