Tommy Hearns vs Felix Trinidad @ 147, 154, and 160.

[RAMPAGE0017]

Who wins, and how?

[kg0208]

Hearns KO's him at every single weight.

And it's not cuz he is from the 80's. He is a better boxer and if they get in a slugging match he hits harder too.

[GazOC]

maybe Trinidad has a shot a 147 (I doubt it) but he was no chance at all at 154 or 160.

[thewoo]

In a slugging match I think Tito has a chance because they are pretty close in power though Tommy hits harder but I think Tito has the better chin. However Hearns could easily outbox tito, hearns by KO at any of those weights.

[WhataRock]

In these kind of matches I look at it if they fought say 10 times, because there is always a chance that either can win on any given night.

At welter- Hearns 7 times of 10
At jnr welter- Hearns 8 times out of 10
At middle- Hearn 9 times out 10

Tommy had that kind of chin that could betray him at any time against a lesser (but still elite) fighter and Tito had the punch that could KO him. Thats why I say that even though Hearns has him in just about every department, there is a live chance Tito could land a finisher.

[Toopretty]

Tito would have to go for broke..and hope he does not get caught..remember hearns controls the distance with that jab...you seen how winkys jab offset Tito...Hearns at any weight.

[brooklyn1550]

147: Hearns by KO
154: Hearns by KO
160: Hearns by KO

[Snakefist]

Hearn’s had a devastating right hand, one of the best in boxing history and a jab that was truly something. Tito does not have a iron chin, I don't even think his chin is that much better then Tommy's. Tito never fought a fighter with a job and sharp devastating right hand like Tommy.

[RAMPAGE0017]

Hearn’s had a devastating right hand, one of the best in boxing history and a jab that was truly something. Tito does not have a iron chin, I don't even think his chin is that much better then Tommy's. Tito never fought a fighter with a job and sharp devastating right hand like Tommy.


I too always felt that Tito's chin was a tad overrated. I'm not saying he didn't have a good chin because he did, but I actually believe that Tito had an underrated defense. Trinidad always kept his hands up, and really hadn't been caught flush with big shots all that frequently in his career.

[joito3]

man tito hearns would be 50/50 toss each and every time they fight because hearns could beat tito by tko or ud but he's in serious danger of being ktfo too

Tito only lost to fighters with atg defense & atg chins in winky & hopkins !

[TIGEREDGE]

man tito hearns would be 50/50 toss each and every time they fight because hearns could beat tito by tko or ud but he's in serious danger of being ktfo too

Tito only lost to fighters with atg defense & atg chins in winky & hopkins !

very good statement. hearns has superior boxing skills but he is no bernard hopkins or winky. tito has a good chance

[WelshintheUS]

man tito hearns would be 50/50 toss each and every time they fight because hearns could beat tito by tko or ud but he's in serious danger of being ktfo too

Tito only lost to fighters with atg defense & atg chins in winky & hopkins !


and Oscar :yep

[MrSmall]

Originally Posted by Snakefist
Hearn’s had a devastating right hand, one of the best in boxing history and a jab that was truly something. Tito does not have a iron chin, I don't even think his chin is that much better then Tommy's. Tito never fought a fighter with a job and sharp devastating right hand like Tommy.

I doubt employment would come into it.

[DrunkenShad]

This one all depends on what Tommy wants to do. If he is troubled by Tito's power, he would box the pants off him for a 7-8 rounds before an eventual KO. If he's not worried by Tito's power, he pounds him out within 4-5 rounds. The fact is that Tito is there to be hit with a good strong jab, and a solid landing Hearns jab was usually followed by a crushing straight right.

KO, all three weights. Tito simply does not have the skill to implement his power consistently upon Hearns.

[brooklyn1550]

very good statement. hearns has superior boxing skills but he is no bernard hopkins or winky. tito has a good chance

Thomas Hearns no Hopkins or Winky? He's perhaps greater than both of them - Wright for sure, Hopkins arguably. Overall, at his best, he was damn near impossible to outbox.

[kg0208]

very good statement. hearns has superior boxing skills but he is no bernard hopkins or winky. tito has a good chance

Hearns may be the best pure boxer of the modern era. What have you been watching? Seriously, no disrespect, but even Leonard couldn't outbox him. He had to finally catch him and drop him.

At 160, Hearns wasn't as good. But boxing Hearns is SUICIDE at 147 or 154.

[DrunkenShad]

Damn straight, Hearns was never outboxed at 147 or 154, and anyone who tried was generaly on the receiving end of a beating.

[Toopretty]

Hearns may be the best pure boxer of the modern era. What have you been watching? Seriously, no disrespect, but even Leonard couldn't outbox him. He had to finally catch him and drop him.

At 160, Hearns wasn't as good. But boxing Hearns is SUICIDE at 147 or 154.

:good:good:good the man outboxed sugar Ray..Trinidad would damn near be defensless in this fight..b/c he would have to get in to land his barrage of power hooks and hearns would jab his ass do what move....then...drop the right hand at some point then Trinidad would come to grips with himself....It would be similiar to the duran fight if anything..and duran had better defense then Tito by a mile and then another one.

[Toopretty]

NOBODY AT 147 OVER HEARNS PAST OR PRESENT..he had the power to KO good chin guys and he would outbox sluggers and knock them out and outbox boxers and probably knock them out...Ray had to go for broke in a 15 round fight to win...that is why Ray is great...in a 12 round fight..HEARNS...Hagler smoked Hearns b/c Hearns tried to go to war with a warrior...that was crazy...

[ChampionsForever]

In these kind of matches I look at it if they fought say 10 times, because there is always a chance that either can win on any given night.

At welter- Hearns 7 times of 10
At jnr welter- Hearns 8 times out of 10
At middle- Hearn 9 times out 10

Tommy had that kind of chin that could betray him at any time against a lesser (but still elite) fighter and Tito had the punch that could KO him. Thats why I say that even though Hearns has him in just about every department, there is a live chance Tito could land a finisher.

Id agree with this

[Jack]

147lbs: Hearns KO 2.
154lbs: Hearns KO 1.
160lbs: Hearns KO 4.

Hearns was simply the better fighter. The only thing Tito has on him is his chin, and that gap is hardly huge. Hearns is a far superior boxer who hits a lot harder.

All three of these fights would be like Hearns/Duran or Hearns/Cuevas. Too strong, too fast, too powerful - Too good.

[kg0208]

There are those who think that Hearns may very well have been the best of the Fab 4 of the 80's. I don't know if that's true, but I will say this.

He destroyed Duran. He was beating Leonard the first time before getting caught and very few believe the 2nd fight was a draw (Most see it as a clear win for Hearns) and Hagler beat him clearly in a great fight, but was also a naturally larger man. No excuses, but those are the perceptions of many.

I can't see Trinidad beating him, and in a series of fights between ATG, there are very few I would take over Hearns at 147 or 154.

[Toopretty]

147lbs: Hearns KO 2.
154lbs: Hearns KO 1.
160lbs: Hearns KO 4.

Hearns was simply the better fighter. The only thing Tito has on him is his chin, and that gap is hardly huge. Hearns is a far superior boxer who hits a lot harder.

All three of these fights would be like Hearns/Duran or Hearns/Cuevas. Too strong, too fast, too powerful - Too good.

Not that early..but :good Hearns destroys any boxer-puncher like tito or a cotto...

[Toopretty]

Hearns would butcher ODH....so would a prime Forrest..andybody with a better jab and faster hands and REACH advantage over ODH has his # easy.

[Robbi]

The reason I pick Hearns?. Because when I balance everything out looking at both fighters strengths and weaknesses and how the fought, everything points towards a Hearns win.

Trinidad was a very slow starter, and was knocked down during the early rounds in many fights. Hearns on the otherhand was very quick out of the blocks, and liked to test his opponents chin sharply. Trinidad's ability to defend an opponents jab was not very good, and Hearns' jab was better than Hopkins and Wright's. Hearns got off with his punches with more freely than Trinidad, he simply let his punches flow. Trinidad's a much more patient measured fighter.

[GARCIA]

Who wins, and how?

Tommy wins by 1st round RAPE........in every division. :deal

[Rock0052]

I'd make Hearns the favorite, but Trinidad's getting seriously underrated here considering Hearns showed that he himself was susceptible to getting KO'd....particularly when he was in control of a fight. You can't just write off the chin differential as no big deal for Hearns considering he's facing one of the hardest hitting Welterweights in history. That's a big deal in this matchup.

Felix has a solid chance at 147. He had no chance at 160 and I gotta pick Hearns clearly at 154 though Trinidad would have an OK chance.

[Robbi]

I'd make Hearns the favorite, but Trinidad's getting seriously underrated here considering Hearns showed that he himself was susceptible to getting KO'd....particularly when he was in control of a fight. You can't just write off the chin differential as no big deal for Hearns considering he's facing one of the hardest hitting Welterweights in history. That's a big deal in this matchup.

Felix has a solid chance at 147. He had no chance at 160 and I gotta pick Hearns clearly at 154 though Trinidad would have an OK chance.

Hearns gets to Trinidad before vice versa. Hearns liked to get into a fight very early with authority. Trinidad needed time to start capatlizing on opponents mistakes, and he was very vulnerable to being knocked down during the first 4 rounds. Hearns' jab would be the main weapon. Trinidad doesn't have adjustable upperbody movement to slip the jab.

Two powerful punchers with weak chins. But when you look at each fighters styles and how they fought, Hearns easily.

[Rock0052]

Hearns gets to Trinidad before vice versa. Hearns liked to get into a fight very early with authority. Trinidad needed time to start capatlizing on opponents mistakes, and he was very vulnerable to being knocked down during the first 4 rounds. Hearns' jab would be the main weapon. Trinidad doesn't have adjustable upperbody movement to slip the jab.

Two powerful punchers with weak chins. But when you look at each fighters styles and how they fought, Hearns easily.

Hearns isn't going to KO Trinidad in the 1st or 2nd rounds with the jab, but yet that seems to be the consensus opinion of how people think this fight would go. He'd have to go all out to get rid of him that early, and when Hearns got into wars, he put his chin out there and got sloppy with his defense. Hearns is the one that was knocked out twice in the 3rd round...not Trinidad. While Felix isn't on Hagler's level, it's naive to think he wouldn't have a solid chance to do it (at 147) considering Iran Barkley starched Tommy even though he was getting dominated.

No, the best pick here is Hearns by very late KO after Tito's been worn down or a Hearns wide UD. Him going balls to the wall for an early KO puts him right in the worst possible situation for this fight- going toe to toe with someone who can KO him just as quickly as he could KO Trinidad.

[Robbi]

Hearns isn't going to KO Trinidad in the 1st or 2nd rounds with the jab, but yet that seems to be the consensus opinion of how people think this fight would go. He'd have to go all out to get rid of him that early, and when Hearns got into wars, he put his chin out there and got sloppy with his defense. Hearns is the one that was knocked out twice in the 3rd round...not Trinidad. While Felix isn't on Hagler's level, it's naive to think he wouldn't have a solid chance to do it (at 147) considering Iran Barkley starched Tommy even though he was getting dominated.

No, the best pick here is Hearns by very late KO after Tito's been worn down or a Hearns wide UD. Him going balls to the wall for an early KO puts him right in the worst possible situation for this fight- going toe to toe with someone who can KO him just as quickly as he could KO Trinidad.

Who said Hearns would KO Trinidad inside 1 or 2 rounds with the jab?. Just saying that would be the key weapon for Hearns scoring and hitting Trinidad often.

[KhanB]

Hearns isn't going to KO Trinidad in the 1st or 2nd rounds with the jab, but yet that seems to be the consensus opinion of how people think this fight would go. He'd have to go all out to get rid of him that early, and when Hearns got into wars, he put his chin out there and got sloppy with his defense. Hearns is the one that was knocked out twice in the 3rd round...not Trinidad. While Felix isn't on Hagler's level, it's naive to think he wouldn't have a solid chance to do it (at 147) considering Iran Barkley starched Tommy even though he was getting dominated.

No, the best pick here is Hearns by very late KO after Tito's been worn down or a Hearns wide UD. Him going balls to the wall for an early KO puts him right in the worst possible situation for this fight- going toe to toe with someone who can KO him just as quickly as he could KO Trinidad.

True that Tommy got ktfo twice in 3rd rounds but give him a pass on the Barkley KO i think Hagler took something out of him and Barkley was a huge MW.

[kg0208]

Hearns isn't going to KO Trinidad in the 1st or 2nd rounds with the jab, but yet that seems to be the consensus opinion of how people think this fight would go. He'd have to go all out to get rid of him that early, and when Hearns got into wars, he put his chin out there and got sloppy with his defense. Hearns is the one that was knocked out twice in the 3rd round...not Trinidad. While Felix isn't on Hagler's level, it's naive to think he wouldn't have a solid chance to do it (at 147) considering Iran Barkley starched Tommy even though he was getting dominated.

No, the best pick here is Hearns by very late KO after Tito's been worn down or a Hearns wide UD. Him going balls to the wall for an early KO puts him right in the worst possible situation for this fight- going toe to toe with someone who can KO him just as quickly as he could KO Trinidad.
Hearns was KO'd in the 3rd twice at 160, not 147 or 154. And it wouldn't be the jab that KO'd Trinidad early, it would be the follow up right hand. Trinidad didn't have a good chin, though slightly better than Hearns and in every other catagory Hearns has him beat. If Hearns lands that right hand flush, Trinidad is not getting up IMO. Trinidad could not outbox him, and he couldn't outslug him because Hearns would have the faster heavier hands and the longer reach. And Trinidad has never had the footwork to work his way inside.

[RAMPAGE0017]

I don't think it's such a bad prediction to say that Hearns would stop Trinidad before the 3rd or fifth. Occasionally Trinidad would come out with something big early on, but for the most part he was a slow starter. Hearns could definitely fuck Trinidad up badly early on.

[DrunkenShad]

I don't agree with the person who says Hearns has a better jab than Wright though. :bart

[Toopretty]

I don't agree with the person who says Hearns has a better jab than Wright though. :bart


:nut:nut:nut:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

:vonnecunt:vonnecunt:ban1:ban1

Its one thing to have a perfect textbook jab...AND IT IS ANOTHER THING TO HAVE HEARNS LIGHTNING FAST JAB THAT HE FLICKED WITH EASE AND GOOD SNAP. IF Hearns jab was not what it was...we would not be talking hearns today..the right hand was just the finishing product..

[Toopretty]

Then you don't know what you're talking about.

Hearns jab is here................



Everybody else's good jab is here................................



That was Hearns biggest weapon to me..without it the right hand would be in the holster and be thrown with less chance of connecting.

[Robbi]

I don't agree with the person who says Hearns has a better jab than Wright though. :bart

It was me, and yes he does. Hearns' jab was a serious weapon. Thats why he goes down in history as one of the best pure boxers ever. His jab was much quicker than Wright's as well.

Hearns' jab was awesome against Leonard and Benitez, and countless other fights.

[Robbi]

Hearns jab is here................



Everybody else's good jab is here................................



That was Hearns biggest weapon to me..without it the right hand would be in the holster and be thrown with less chance of connecting.

Holmes and Hearns had the best jabs ever in boxing history.

[TIGEREDGE]

Hearns may be the best pure boxer of the modern era. What have you been watching? Seriously, no disrespect, but even Leonard couldn't outbox him. He had to finally catch him and drop him.

At 160, Hearns wasn't as good. But boxing Hearns is SUICIDE at 147 or 154.

I never said that tito should of boxed him. hearns never got outboxed i know but he was no willie pep. his reach helped him in outboxing the likes of ray leonard and benitez

I fancy tommy to win but tito could well get lucky like ray leonard did

[TIGEREDGE]

I'd make Hearns the favorite, but Trinidad's getting seriously underrated here considering Hearns showed that he himself was susceptible to getting KO'd....particularly when he was in control of a fight. You can't just write off the chin differential as no big deal for Hearns considering he's facing one of the hardest hitting Welterweights in history. That's a big deal in this matchup.

Felix has a solid chance at 147. He had no chance at 160 and I gotta pick Hearns clearly at 154 though Trinidad would have an OK chance.

thats the best, most anayltical and even minded post on this topic.

[TIGEREDGE]

Leonard didn't get lucky, what he did was far from luck. That was heart, skill, and determination.

sorry you are right. tito would have to show heart, determination and skill to get a good punch in

[TIGEREDGE]

It wasn't a good punch you twit. He walked him down, took EVERYTHING one of the best punchers ever through at him, and got to him with good, solid blows which hurt him and eventually finished him off. Tito couldn't handle Hearn's firepowerr, Leonard did, and walked through it, and finished him.

no need for the insults mate. i have seen the fight. leonard landed some great combo to finish it off. Tito would need to get lucky in order to win. ray could not ko tom with one puch. tito could

[TIGEREDGE]

It wasn't a good punch you twit. He walked him down, took EVERYTHING one of the best punchers ever through at him, and got to him with good, solid blows which hurt him and eventually finished him off. Tito couldn't handle Hearn's firepowerr, Leonard did, and walked through it, and finished him.

TOMMY NEVER UNLOADED EVERYTHING ON RAY. AFTER THE 6TH HE GOT BEHIND HIS JAB AND BOXED

srl took some big punches, but he never took a pounding from tommy

but credit must be given to ray. he was half blind when he pulled of the KO

[Robbi]

It wasn't a good punch you twit. He walked him down, took EVERYTHING one of the best punchers ever through at him, and got to him with good, solid blows which hurt him and eventually finished him off. Tito couldn't handle Hearn's firepowerr, Leonard did, and walked through it, and finished him.

Trinidad doesn't have the lateral movement like Leonard to keep away from Hearns over 6 rounds. Trinidad was a come forward bomber, and never had anywhere near the intelligence which Leonard possessed. He had just as much heart as Leonard, but he liked to show that heart too much. Only a fighter like Hagler could steam forward and take the best Hearns could throw, and Trinidad doesn't have the same ability to take a punch.

[Robbi]

TOMMY NEVER UNLOADED EVERYTHING ON RAY. AFTER THE 6TH HE GOT BEHIND HIS JAB AND BOXED

srl took some big punches, but he never took a pounding from tommy

but credit must be given to ray. he was half blind when he pulled of the KO

Hearns never gave Leonard a serious pounding, but behind the jab and the odd right hand he did. He never unleashed the same kind of assualts on Leonard which were delivered on himself.

Hearns needed to seriously hurt Leonard before he would jump all over and try to take him out, hence a pounding. Leonard did catch Hearns and give him a pounding though, especially during the 6th, 13th, and 14th rounds.

[kg0208]

I never said that tito should of boxed him. hearns never got outboxed i know but he was no willie pep. his reach helped him in outboxing the likes of ray leonard and benitez

I fancy tommy to win but tito could well get lucky like ray leonard did

But Leonard didn't get lucky.

[TIGEREDGE]

But Leonard didn't get lucky.
some would argue he did. hearns fans will argue to the death that tommy was really weak on the night

I am neutral on this subject. i would of liked to see a rematch before making a judgement

sugar deserves great credit and respect for the victory

[kg0208]

some would argue he did. hearns fans will argue to the death that tommy was really weak on the night

I am neutral on this subject. i would of liked to see a rematch before making a judgement

sugar deserves great credit and respect for the victory

I mean that he didn't get lucky with the punch. He had caught Hearns a couple of times. He was just trying get in behind the jab.

Hearns deserved the win in the rematch.

[Alo2006]

Hearns would beat Tito like Winky did, but his jabs would be harder. This equals Hearns by KO.

[RAMPAGE0017]

Why are Winky and Hearns even being mentioned in the same sentence?

[41fever]

Both are chinny and have power. Tito may have a better set of whiskers. Hmmm...I think Tito makes it competitive and maybe win @47 and 54

[PATSYS]

I have not posted yet on this thread until now...when I noticed that it reached 5 pages...I was like WTF??!:huh

Hasn't it been agreed yet that Hearns koes Tito at 147-160?

[Pimp C]

Hearns KO's him at every single weight.

And it's not cuz he is from the 80's. He is a better boxer and if they get in a slugging match he hits harder too.
I agree Hearns was just simply better.

[BobDigi5060]

Tito had no boxing skills, he would just feint and throw leather. Way too predictable for elite guys like Wright, Hopkins, and Hearns.

[Caper]

Hearns wins at every weight though Tito hurts him and drops him at least once or twice.

[warrior85]

hearns at every weight,but if tito caught him flush....well we'll never know so im goin for tommy.

[godking]

Hearns

Simply a better version of Tito

[Marnoff]

Hearns by knockout at each weight. Trinidad certainly has a chance to catch Hearns, but my money is on Hearns.

[Robbi]

After watching Hagler-Hearns, and Barkely Hearns...
Tito KO Hearns any weight, and Ronald Hearns on the same night.


Trinidad aint Hagler or Barkely in the chin department. Fact.

Trinidad was easily hit with the jab. De La Hoya, Vargas, Hopkins, and Wright. Fact.

Trinidad was a very slow starter. He was also knocked down many times during the first 4 rounds. Lushieng, Campas, Vargas, etc. Maybe as many as six times.

Hearns was a fast starter, and knocked many opponents out early. Cuevas, Duran, Shuler, etc.

The main reason Hearns beats Trinidad. He has the perfect style to get to Trinidad before vice versa. His jab was one of the best in boxing history, and he was very free flowing with his punches. The perfect style to beat Trinidad, who was very straight up and down and easy to hit.

Hearns KO.

Can't believe I quoted you, as you aint worth it.

[TIGEREDGE]

Trinidad aint Hagler or Barkely in the chin department. Fact.

Trinidad was easily hit with the jab. De La Hoya, Vargas, Hopkins, and Wright. Fact.

Trinidad was a very slow starter. He was also knocked down many times during the first 4 rounds. Lushieng, Campas, Vargas, etc. Maybe as many as six times.

Hearns was a fast starter, and knocked many opponents out early. Cuevas, Duran, Shuler, etc.

The main reason Hearns beats Trinidad. He has the perfect style to get to Trinidad before vice versa. His jab was one of the best in boxing history, and he was very free flowing with his punches. The perfect style to beat Trinidad, who was very straight up and down and easy to hit.

Hearns KO.

Can't believe I quoted you, as you aint worth it.

HE STARTED FAST AGAINST JOPPY AND VARGAS. I agree with most of your assesment

[Robbi]

HE STARTED FAST AGAINST JOPPY AND VARGAS.

Yes he did, but I'm balancing everything out. When I look at Trinidad's entire career, I come to the conclusion he was a slow starter. He was knocked down by fighters with moderate power. Reid was not known for his power, and he had Trinidad dropped and hurt. Many other non-punchers had him down early at 147lbs as well.

You know what, I can't see how Trinidad gets to Hearns first, simply because he started slow and his style was to be tight and precise. I'm afraid Hearns jab would be the main key, as Trinidad eat jabs for breakfast up the middle. Very vulnerable to the jab. And we know what followed behind Hearns' jab, the right hand. I'd give Hearns the edge in handspeed as well.

Sometimes its a hard pick when putting two fighters head-to-head who both had bad chins and serious power, but its a fairy easy pick when putting both styles together.

Hearns by devastating KO.

[juancho214]

I doubt employment would come into it.:lol:

[juancho214]

ok so who from right now could beat hearns,if i had to pick it would be winky

[RAMPAGE0017]

Hearns has no jaw....fact.

That's overdoing it just a tad.

[magnificentdave]

who wins at light heavyweight?

[RAMPAGE0017]

Hagler proved it, and the Blade showed the Earth why.


You say Hearns has " no jaw " yet he found success as high as the light heavyweight division, and also found minimal success in the cruiserweights as well. Hagler knocked him out, but that's Marvin Hagler, and he just happened to knock him out at the end of 3 of the most brutal rounds of boxing ever recorded.

[thesandman]

who wins at light heavyweight?

I say the guy that beat a prime Virgil Hill for the WBA strap, not the one about to fight a shadow of a former great.

[Lupe]

I go with Trinidad at 147 and 154. A lot of you tend to underrate Tito, and it's surprising because Hopkins is always overrated here. If you believe Hopkins is so good then you have to rate Tito highly because X couldn't have beaten a "bum".

Back on the subject: Both have equal power but Hearns had a weaker chin. THen it becomes a question of who'd land first. I believe that Hearns had a deadly jab, that he use to set up the right hand - but at 147-54, Tito's offense caused a lot of fighters to fight more in fear of his left hook.
I think Hearns knows his limitations enough not to go for an early KO...and as soon as Tito warms up Hearns will be on the back-foot.
A left hook catches Tommy on the ropes and a follow-up right puts him on the canvas. He gets up at 7 and remains in survival mode until another left hook put him down for the count.

Trinidad by KO 9.

[kg0208]

I go with Trinidad at 147 and 154. A lot of you tend to underrate Tito, and it's surprising because Hopkins is always overrated here. If you believe Hopkins is so good then you have to rate Tito highly because X couldn't have beaten a "bum".

Back on the subject: Both have equal power but Hearns had a weaker chin. THen it becomes a question of who'd land first. I believe that Hearns had a deadly jab, that he use to set up the right hand - but at 147-54, Tito's offense caused a lot of fighters to fight more in fear of his left hook.
I think Hearns knows his limitations enough not to go for an early KO...and as soon as Tito warms up Hearns will be on the back-foot.
A left hook catches Tommy on the ropes and a follow-up right puts him on the canvas. He gets up at 7 and remains in survival mode until another left hook put him down for the count.

Trinidad by KO 9. Hearns could beat Hopkins. He has the ability to where as Tito does not. So I don't think that helps at all.

And Hearns and Tito don't have equal power. And he couldn't back Hearns up....he couldn't even back up DLH. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Hearns would suddenly start fighting off his back foot. And he would always get to Tito first considering his speed, height, and reach advantage.

[Doppleganger]

Hearns would KO him at all those weights, but I don't agree with the ones saying Hearns hits a lot harder. Trinidad has a more devastating left hook than Hearns but Hearns right is more deadly than Tito's is. Not sure that I agree with that statement bolded. Tommy's left hook is seriously overlooked in most discussions involving Hearns. Hearns used to turn in the left hook after the right hand and it was a potent weapon, especially in his welterweight days. He also threw a long-range left hook to the body which really fucked people up, just ask Iran Barkley and James Shuler. His body attack with the left hook (and right hooks for good measure) in both those matches was a thing of beauty. When Virgil Hill was asked after his fight with Hearns which punch hurt him the most he replied, "Tommy's got a good left hook, perhaps better than his right hand."

The awesome thing about the Hearns offence was not just one punch. He'd hit you with the ramrod jab, perhaps feint it to the body, then the right cross would come over the top and if that missed the left hook would be coming behind it. Couple that with Tommy's speed and you have a dynamite offensive fighter. Tito's good, very good, but everything he does well Hearns does better. The way to beat Hearns is to pressure him and have the chin and heart to withstand the nuclear assault inevitably coming your way. SRL did at welterweight, Hagler and Barkley did at middleweight, although Barkley caught a lucky break when Tommy got careless. Tito has neither the style nor chin to beat Hearns. His best chance is at welterweight but I'd back Tommy inside the distance at all 3 weights.

[Lupe]

Hearns could beat Hopkins. He has the ability to where as Tito does not. So I don't think that helps at all.

And Hearns and Tito don't have equal power. And he couldn't back Hearns up....he couldn't even back up DLH. I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Hearns would suddenly start fighting off his back foot. And he would always get to Tito first considering his speed, height, and reach advantage.

It's quite simple, they both have equal power..ANd it depends on what you like. Hearns has more of 1 punch KO power as evidenced in some of his stunning KOs, while Tito has the kind of power ruins you is it doesn't knock you out.

Reach advantance means nothing if your chin can be reached..and make no mistake, Tito is one of the most accurate punchers in the last 30 years. He will definately land on the chin.

The question is: how long will it take for Tommy to succumb to that kind of power?

You need to watch the Tito-Oscar fight again and you will see that Oscar back-up the whole fight, except the time when he landed a beautiul combination that hurt Tito at the end of 4th or 5th.

And Hearns can be backed up. Tito was even able to back a fully fledged middleweight in Hopkins.

Tito by KO 9.

[Robbi]

It's quite simple, they both have equal power..ANd it depends on what you like. Hearns has more of 1 punch KO power as evidenced in some of his stunning KOs, while Tito has the kind of power ruins you is it doesn't knock you out.

Reach advantance means nothing if your chin can be reached..and make no mistake, Tito is one of the most accurate punchers in the last 30 years. He will definately land on the chin.

The question is: how long will it take for Tommy to succumb to that kind of power?

You need to watch the Tito-Oscar fight again and you will see that Oscar back-up the whole fight, except the time when he landed a beautiul combination that hurt Tito at the end of 4th or 5th.

And Hearns can be backed up. Tito was even able to back a fully fledged middleweight in Hopkins.

Tito by KO 9.

Trinidad couldn't fight backing up, Hearns could. Thats an option which needs to be taken into consideration when and if each gets hurt. Survival instincts.

Trinidad backed up Hopkins?. Your wrong. Hopkins choose to go laterally on the backfoot and keep his distance as it was part of his strategy. When both got into fierce exchanges during the middle-late rounds, Hopkins stayed right in there with him. He never backed up.

[Lupe]

Trinidad couldn't fight backing up, Hearns could.

That's a myth...as we've seen little of Tito backing up. He could use a lot of lateral movement to great effect when he wanted to (see fights against Jones, Stephens and Campas).



Thats an option which needs to be taken into consideration when and if each gets hurt. Survival instincts.

And Tito has shown better survival insticts...

Trinidad backed up Hopkins?. Your wrong.

Actually he did. Watch the fight.

Hopkins choose to go laterally on the backfoot and keep his distance as it was part of his strategy. When both got into fierce exchanges during the middle-late rounds, Hopkins stayed right in there with him. He never backed up.

Hopkins "chose"...? So you were able to get into his mind to read this?

Hopkins backed up to avoid trading with a puncher. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, I'd expect Tommy to apply a similar strategy. Only that Hearns wasn't as good fighting on the backfoot.

[Robbi]

That's a myth...as we've seen little of Tito backing up. He could use a lot of lateral movement to great effect when he wanted to (see fights against Jones, Stephens and Campas).




And Tito has shown better survival insticts...



Actually he did. Watch the fight.



Hopkins "chose"...? So you were able to get into his mind to read this?

Hopkins backed up to avoid trading with a puncher. Nothing wrong with that. In fact, I'd expect Tommy to apply a similar strategy. Only that Hearns wasn't as good fighting on the backfoot.

Trinidad never backed Hopkins up with his punches, thats for sure. And I don't know why you said "Trinidad backed Hopkins up" as its hardly useful in your arguement.

The whole meaning of backing up someone is landing punches and putting them on the defensive. Not the opponent staying away and moving laterally as part of his strategy because the other has power. Thats not being "backed up".

Hopkins employed these tactics as part of his strategy. He choose, correct. Because he had no other reason to keep his distance and move laterally, because Trinidad's punches were not the reason why he went into "back up" mode.

I'm 1000000000% correct. And since we have got into a debate, I don't expect you to give ground and admit your wrong.

[Lupe]

Trinidad never backed Hopkins up with his punches, thats for sure. And I don't know why you said "Trinidad backed Hopkins up" as its hardly useful in your arguement.

The whole meaning of backing up someone is landing punches and putting them on the defensive. Not the opponent staying away and moving laterally as part of his strategy because the other has power. Thats not being "backed up".

Hopkins employed these tactics as part of his strategy. He choose, correct. Because he had no other reason to keep his distance and move laterally, because Trinidad's punches were not the reason why he went into "back up" mode.

I'm 1000000000% correct. And since we have got into a debate, I don't expect you to give ground and admit your wrong.

Whatever your meaning of "backing up" is does not matter. The effect is that one man is the aggressor and one is being defensive.

My argument is that in a matchup between Tommy and Tito, it will be Tito who is the agressor as it is his nature.
Hearns will be on the backfoot (back up, or whatever you want to call it) because he will know he faces a dangerous puncher. Just like Hopkins knew that he faced a dangerous puncher and had to apply the appropriate strategy.
You cannot just walk forward when you face a puncher like Trinidad, even if you have a granite chin - and you know the type of chin Tommy has.

Trinidad by KO 9.

[Robbi]

Whatever your meaning of "backing up" is does not matter. The effect is that one man is the aggressor and one is being defensive.

The defintition of one fighter "backing up" another is not just mines. It's the definition full stop.

One man being the aggressor against the other. Thats "Trinidad being the aggressor against Hopkins". So I'll define what Trinidad done against Hopkins for you.

Trinidad never backed Hopkins up, as Hopkins clearly backed himself up as part of his strategy. As I stated, backing someone up is about landing punches to put them into a defensive shell.

I disagree with your pick. Hearns would be aggressive against Trinidad, especially during the early rounds. Because history tells us Hearns fought in this manner most of the time. If you want to see more in-depth reasons why I pick Hearns, feel free to look at my previous posts.

[Lupe]

The defintition of one fighter "backing up" another is not just mines. It's the definition full stop.

One man being the aggressor against the other. Thats "Trinidad being the aggressor against Hopkins". So I'll define what Trinidad done against Hopkins for you.

Trinidad never backed Hopkins up, as Hopkins clearly backed himself up as part of his strategy. As I stated, backing someone up is about landing punches to put them into a defensive shell.

I disagree with your pick. Hearns would be aggressive against Trinidad, especially during the early rounds. Because history tells us Hearns fought in this manner most of the time. If you want to see more in-depth reasons why I pick Hearns, feel free to look at my previous posts.

Definitions can be sidetracking. How I define "backing up", as I said, does not matter as long as you understand that one fighter is the aggressor. Details as to why, or how are fit for another thread. My point is that there's no way Hearns becomes the aggressor against a fighter of the power of Trinidad and survives 9 rounds. It ends early..and with Hearns on his back. Mark my words. Trinidad can punch, especially is you come straight at him.

Now if you say Hearns will become the aggressor, then I'm changing my pick. It's an early night - the Hitman getting caught on the ropes.

[SugarShane_24]

Well, I won't exactly say it's an easy win for Tommy, as Tito has shown, he can be knocked down but he will always get up. Unless he's broken down like what Hopkins did. And he can punch too.

at 147:

Tommy would control the distance with jabs the way he did Pipino Cuevas, but the difference will be he would be patient. Even after dropping Tito, Tommy would keep his distance and soften Tito up bit-by-bit and end the fight probably around the 8th.


At 154 and at 160:

same scenario, but i think at 160 he may have a few uncomfortable moments at he is a bit slower and much more vulnerable to Tito's power punching. But still, Hearns will be too much.

[Pimp C]

I go with Trinidad at 147 and 154. A lot of you tend to underrate Tito, and it's surprising because Hopkins is always overrated here. If you believe Hopkins is so good then you have to rate Tito highly because X couldn't have beaten a "bum".

Back on the subject: Both have equal power but Hearns had a weaker chin. THen it becomes a question of who'd land first. I believe that Hearns had a deadly jab, that he use to set up the right hand - but at 147-54, Tito's offense caused a lot of fighters to fight more in fear of his left hook.
I think Hearns knows his limitations enough not to go for an early KO...and as soon as Tito warms up Hearns will be on the back-foot.
A left hook catches Tommy on the ropes and a follow-up right puts him on the canvas. He gets up at 7 and remains in survival mode until another left hook put him down for the count.

Trinidad by KO 9.
Hearns at 147 was one of the best boxers in history only a fool or a nuthugger thinks he beats The Hitman there. He would have given Tito a boxing lesson before knocking him out.:deal

[Robbi]

Definitions can be sidetracking. How I define "backing up", as I said, does not matter as long as you understand that one fighter is the aggressor. Details as to why, or how are fit for another thread. My point is that there's no way Hearns becomes the aggressor against a fighter of the power of Trinidad and survives 9 rounds. It ends early..and with Hearns on his back. Mark my words. Trinidad can punch, especially is you come straight at him.

Now if you say Hearns will become the aggressor, then I'm changing my pick. It's an early night - the Hitman getting caught on the ropes.

If Hearns and Trinidad were both aggressive, which I'm sure they both would be, then only one winner. But as I said earlier, Hearns started faster than Trinidad, and had the perfect style to get to Trinidad, before Trinidad got to him.

Would you concede that Hearns got off with his punches better, made them flow with more ease, and that he was much busier behind the jab?. Awnser that question specifically.

[Robbi]

All Trinidad would have to do is swarm his ass the way Hagler did.

Trinidad would get KO'd. Hagler had the chin to run through Hearns' right hand, Trinidad never.

Hearns KO all night long. :good

[Pimp C]

All Trinidad would have to do is swarm his ass the way Hagler did. Hearns looked like a prostitute fighting off Ike Ibeabuchhi in that first round.
Classic Jack:lol:

[kg0208]

It's quite simple, they both have equal power..ANd it depends on what you like. Hearns has more of 1 punch KO power as evidenced in some of his stunning KOs, while Tito has the kind of power ruins you is it doesn't knock you out.

Reach advantance means nothing if your chin can be reached..and make no mistake, Tito is one of the most accurate punchers in the last 30 years. He will definately land on the chin.

The question is: how long will it take for Tommy to succumb to that kind of power?

You need to watch the Tito-Oscar fight again and you will see that Oscar back-up the whole fight, except the time when he landed a beautiul combination that hurt Tito at the end of 4th or 5th.

And Hearns can be backed up. Tito was even able to back a fully fledged middleweight in Hopkins.

Tito by KO 9.

No, they don't have equal power. Tito's power was great, but not on Hearns level. The reason Hearns didn't ruin you with his power is because he didn't throw heavy shots continuously as he could simply box and counter. Tito was not a great boxer, he threw, like Cotto, heavy shots nearly every punch. It just wore people down.

Reach advantage means alot when Hearns could simply keep him on the end of his jab. Tito was accurate against average defensive fighters. You overrate his accuracy.

Hearns would KO Trinidad and probably in the early to mid rounds. You are overrating Tito's abilities quite a bit and not even taking Hearns style and ability into account.

[kg0208]

Definitions can be sidetracking. How I define "backing up", as I said, does not matter as long as you understand that one fighter is the aggressor. Details as to why, or how are fit for another thread. My point is that there's no way Hearns becomes the aggressor against a fighter of the power of Trinidad and survives 9 rounds. It ends early..and with Hearns on his back. Mark my words. Trinidad can punch, especially is you come straight at him.

Now if you say Hearns will become the aggressor, then I'm changing my pick. It's an early night - the Hitman getting caught on the ropes.

If Hearns is the aggressor, then he stops Tito quickly.

[BITCH ASS]

Hearns isn't going to KO Trinidad in the 1st or 2nd rounds with the jab, but yet that seems to be the consensus opinion of how people think this fight would go. He'd have to go all out to get rid of him that early, and when Hearns got into wars, he put his chin out there and got sloppy with his defense. Hearns is the one that was knocked out twice in the 3rd round...not Trinidad. While Felix isn't on Hagler's level, it's naive to think he wouldn't have a solid chance to do it (at 147) considering Iran Barkley starched Tommy even though he was getting dominated.

No, the best pick here is Hearns by very late KO after Tito's been worn down or a Hearns wide UD. Him going balls to the wall for an early KO puts him right in the worst possible situation for this fight- going toe to toe with someone who can KO him just as quickly as he could KO Trinidad.

:good

[Robbi]

:good

:good

[Robbi]

Tito would have kayoed Hearns, is going to KAYO your hero old ass RJJ and the Loch Ness Monster is a big fake.

Guess what Jack. Thats the first ever Jones avatar I have had on here, and he wouldn't make my top 10 favourite boxers. You need to polish up on your English grammar as well.

"Tito would have kayoed Hearns, is going to to KAYO your old heroes ass RJJ" lolol.

Take care, and keep in touch with yourself :rofl

[brooklyn1550]

All Trinidad would have to do is swarm his ass the way Hagler did. Hearns looked like a prostitute fighting off Ike Ibeabuchhi in that first round.

:patsch Tito doesn't have the footwork to get inside on Tommy Hearns, let alone the chin. He goes toe to toe the way Hagler did and he gets knocked out quick. Bottom line.

[brooklyn1550]

Tito would have kayoed Hearns, is going to KAYO your hero old ass RJJ and the Loch Ness Monster is a big fake.

I'm sorry to break it to you Dan, but...

Roy Jones Jr will beat Felix Trinidad

[kirk]

I say hearns because of his speed, jab, reach, footwork.... against a foot setter like tito, i think he controls the fight with these.

[Robbi]

I'm sorry to break it to you Dan, but...

Roy Jones Jr will beat Felix Trinidad

I'll second that. Jones will knockout out the one dimensional robot inside 6 rounds.

I'd like to have seen Jones v Trinidad when it was first talked about happening, back in 2000-2001 at light-heavyweight. Possibly a catch-weight, just under 168lbs. Same again back then as now, Jones KO.

[Ted Stickles]

Hearns wins in all 3 ..Tito to me is way overrated

[dave82]

I'm taking nothing away from Trinidad, who is a great boxer. IMO Tommy Hearns was just on a different level and he takes trinidad at all three weights. Hearns would be able to control the early rounds with his jab, and takes Trinidad out in the later rounds.

[halfamazin1]

Everyone always seems to talk mad shit about boxers when they are long and gone, no on was saying shit when Tito was blasting Reid and Joppy and was like38-0 with like 33KOs...people always talk shit when they've been beat...He would have a great chance I think...I'm not saying he's better than hearns but damn...he never lost a welterweight or jr middleweight fight...ever, he was a beast at 147 holding the longest title reign record but at 154 he hit like a mule kick...give the man his props.

[tays001]

Hearns Ko's Tito At Every Weight

[Lupe]

Hearns at 147 was one of the best boxers in history only a fool or a nuthugger thinks he beats The Hitman there. He would have given Tito a boxing lesson before knocking him out.:deal

What an insight! You such an expert you should not wasting your time with fools and nuthuggers.

[Lupe]

If Hearns and Trinidad were both aggressive, which I'm sure they both would be, then only one winner. But as I said earlier, Hearns started faster than Trinidad, and had the perfect style to get to Trinidad, before Trinidad got to him.

The folly in that argument is that you believe it's only Hearns who will get to Trinidad first. Let's say he does, and Tito goes down....if he gets up, then it's over for Hearns.
However, if Trinidad gets to Tommy first - with that chin - it's LIGHTS OUT!

Would you concede that Hearns got off with his punches better, made them flow with more ease, and that he was much busier behind the jab?. Awnser that question specifically.

Not really. Hearns had better footwork and Tito's achille's heel (late in his career) has been that he had to get set in order to punch. At 147, however, that was not a problem.

Actually it's Tito's punches that always flowed with more ease. Tito, at some time, was reknowned as the best combination puncher (I remember an analysis done by KO magazine). Had power in both hands and was found to have the best stamina - Hopkins included.

We know how Tommy was susceptible to fading in his fights - especially if the pace was high.

So according to your theory, if they both start fast and Hearns does not get an early KO, then BET YOUR HOUSE ON IT, he won't last 4 rounds.

[Lupe]

No, they don't have equal power. Tito's power was great, but not on Hearns level.

And you base that on.......?

The reason Hearns didn't ruin you with his power is because he didn't throw heavy shots continuously as he could simply box and counter.

Crap.

Tito was not a great boxer, he threw, like Cotto, heavy shots nearly every punch. It just wore people down.

Crap.

Reach advantage means alot when Hearns could simply keep him on the end of his jab. Tito was accurate against average defensive fighters. You overrate his accuracy.

Answer this:
If it's that simple, why was he not able to do that to Hagler?
Is Whittaker an average fighter? Nobody had been able to land 54% of their powershot against Sweet Pea.

Hearns would KO Trinidad and probably in the early to mid rounds.

It can't happen in the middle rounds because Hearns would never get there. Hearns' shot is to land in the 1st 2 rounds and hope Tito stays down.

You are overrating Tito's abilities quite a bit and not even taking Hearns style and ability into account.

At least I'm trying to bring 2 sides of the argument thann just saying Hearns will KO Trinidad without basis - as most here have been saying.

I'll say it again, Tito Trinidad is way underrated here. Especially by those who hold Hopkins in such high regard.

[Lupe]

Stop being subjective in match-ups of this nature. You have to look into both fighters strenghts and weaknesses - not just the fighter you like. I know many hate Trinidad here because he beat a lot of americans - until he ran into Hopkins. Then suddendly he's not a great this and that.

An analysis on key elements to victory:

1. Power: Tie
2. Stamina: Tito
3. Jab: Hearns
4. Speed: Hearns
5. Chin: Tito

These are key things that will win the fight for each and it seems even. But - CHIN is the "foundation" on which a fight is won/lost. Given two guys with equal power, the determining element of who would win is chin factor.

This is why, to me, this fight cannot go the full 12 rounds. And Tito could most likely taste the canvas, but which WW has been able to put him down for good?

An aggressive, fast starting Hearns lasts 4 rounds..or else he's KOed clean in the 9th.

[Robbi]

Actually it's Tito's punches that always flowed with more ease.

With an outrageous opinion like that one, it shows your biased beyond belief.

[Lupe]

Actually Tommy is one of my favourite fighters behind Leonard. And it's not just my opinion about Trinidad's punches, the KO magazine did an analysis among current fighters at the time (2000) and Tito rate 1st in: Stamina, Power and combination punching.