Anybody see Coleman 'vs' Bonnar?

[Polymath]

First thoughts; why da fuck was this not on the main card? OK, its not a high level fight, but its an interesting fight; MMA legend versus a guy who is apparently really well known and was in one of the most important fights ever, according to Goldie and Rogan. Serious miscalculation by Zuffa imo. Presumably they paid Coleman well by their standards (ie more than a handful of gravel and half a moldy carrot). You get an old timer back for a non-title, non-relevant fight and don't even show it? WTF?

Secondly; Coleman was damn impressive for an old guy huh? In fact, that might be the past condition, in terms of stamina, he has ever been in, in his entire career. If he had that sort of gas tank he would have whupped Shogun.

Coleman deserves at least another fight in the UFC (and he needs it financially from all reports).

As for Stephan Bonnar; not an elite fighter unfortunately.

[scurlaruntings]

Me and you saw a diffrent fight. Coleman looked like an Aids riddle cancer patient. That dude is so old now he's spitting dust. As for Bonnar he is truly shit. If you cant beat a guy like Coleman at his age then you have no business in the sport.

[Polymath]

At least he didn't gas after a minute.

He looked like a 44 yr old. But good for that imo

[cdnboxing]

Man, Bonnar has reached rock bottom.

[bachatu]

Man, Bonnar has reached rock bottom.
Bonnar has always been real shitty, the guy has heart, thats about it. I don't understand how someone who fights for so long could have such bad striking technique.

[cdnboxing]

HAHA yeah thats true. To get subbed by Coleman is utterly embarassing though.

[Polymath]

^ Lost on pts.

[rekcutnevets]

I saw it. I was actually surprised to find myself giving Bonnar a round. I thought Coleman would win every round.

Coleman does look old, and his game really is. Coleman should have transitioned into bjj years ago. He could have been a grappling master by now.

[chimba]

Bonnar is truly the american psycho. Why the fuck would you leave a decent office job in Chicago to get beaten up month in and month out in a sport youre not good at?

[jimmie]

^ Lost on pts.

Dont mind CDN hes just a total moron when it comes to MMA he proves this in every post he makes.

[Wilhelm]

Bonnar lost that fight by being overconfident coming out for the second round. Coleman looked tired as shit and Bonnar thought he could land whatever he wanted. He probably could have too if all he'd have wanted was punches and some safe kicks, but when he did that TKD spinning bullshit kick and ended up under Coleman in side control and started bleeding he was in deep shit. Bonnar won the first easy and looked like he would have won by decision at least.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Calling Bonnar a shit fighter is really rewriting the script in order to downplay any credit that Coleman should be getting right now. Coleman should get a shitload of credit. Bonnar was certainly good enough to beat the likes of Jardine and Irwin... as well as go life and death in extremely close fights with Forrest Griffin and Rashad Evans. Give Coleman some credit.

[scurlaruntings]

I saw it. I was actually surprised to find myself giving Bonnar a round. I thought Coleman would win every round.

Coleman does look old, and his game really is. Coleman should have transitioned into bjj years ago. He could have been a grappling master by now.Grappling master? :lol::lol: Are you serious? Do you know what Hammer Houses daily regime consisted of? Weights, hormone injections, weights more weights and occasionally some striking. The only sub Coleman knows is a basic neck crank which is a favourite for bruising wrestlers. Coleman looks awful. Hammerhouse fighters are the least evolved in this sport.

[scurlaruntings]

Bonnar has always been real shitty, the guy has heart, thats about it. I don't understand how someone who fights for so long could have such bad striking technique.Bonnars a black belt in TKD.

[pijo]

Me and you saw a diffrent fight. Coleman looked like an Aids riddle cancer patient. That dude is so old now he's spitting dust. As for Bonnar he is truly shit. If you cant beat a guy like Coleman at his age then you have no business in the sport.
:rofl:rofl:lol:

[chuffy]

Grappling master? :lol::lol: Are you serious? Do you know what Hammer Houses daily regime consisted of? Weights, hormone injections, weights more weights and occasionally some striking. The only sub Coleman knows is a basic neck crank which is a favourite for bruising wrestlers. Coleman looks awful. Hammerhouse fighters are the least evolved in this sport.

:lol:

[rekcutnevets]

Posted by scurlaruntings
Grappling master? Are you serious? Do you know what Hammer Houses daily regime consisted of? Weights, hormone injections, weights more weights and occasionally some striking. The only sub Coleman knows is a basic neck crank which is a favourite for bruising wrestlers. Coleman looks awful. Hammerhouse fighters are the least evolved in this sport.
Who the fuck is talking about Hammer House's routine? I was talking about how good he could have been if he had transitioned into bjj over a decade ago. So a wrestler with better credentials than Matt Hughes can't become good at submissions? We saw how bad that fucked up Hughes' career, with so many having submitted GSP.

[scurlaruntings]

Who the fuck is talking about Hammer House's routine? I was talking about how good he could have been if he had transitioned into bjj over a decade ago. So a wrestler with better credentials than Matt Hughes can't become good at submissions? We saw how bad that fucked up Hughes' career, with so many having submitted GSP.Well thats soome astounding logic. Coleman was a good wrester so he could have been good at BJJ. :roll: Why impose suppostion? Why not deal with facts rather than what if's? Coleman barely had a sub defense. Every time when hurt he did the usual, shoot for the single leg and get beat around his head. Colemans dimension in his prime was simply to overpower his opponents. The entirity of Hammerhouse were the same. All athletically blessed but not a brain cell between them.

[rekcutnevets]

Posted by scurlaruntings
Well thats soome astounding logic. Coleman was a good wrester so he could have been good at BJJ. Why impose suppostion?
This is a forum, and as most forums do, it thrives on supposition. That is what you do in a forum, suppose things.

I'll say it again. Mark Coleman should have gotten involved in bjj, it would have made him better. Why that bothers you, I don't know.

[jimmie]

Grappling master? :lol::lol: Are you serious? Do you know what Hammer Houses daily regime consisted of? Weights, hormone injections, weights more weights and occasionally some striking. The only sub Coleman knows is a basic neck crank which is a favourite for bruising wrestlers. Coleman looks awful. Hammerhouse fighters are the least evolved in this sport.

:rofl I always used to imagine these guys like Baroni,Coleman,Randleman doing about 5 minutes on a treadmill in the morning then screaming at each other cardios for pussys then smacking the walls and going after the weights. After an long workout consisting of bicep curls and bench presses these guys gang up in the rest room by the mirrors inject each other and flex for about a half hour. Then they switch off to their MMA workout hit a few dead pads and then shoot for double legs discuss gameplans consisting of " hit him in the fucking face, take him down then punch his fucking ass and then Phil if he gets on top get the fuck up" Phil says " no Mark im the best ever" Mark says " I know but you have to get the fuck up dont fucking lay there " There corner adivce is priceless watch Baroni vs Minowa in the Welterweight 05 GP Baronis down and Marks screaming PHIL GET THE FUCK UP.

[Mob]

Coleman used to be world class and Bonnar never was world class.


But both have the desire to fight.

[bachatu]

Bonnars a black belt in TKD.
It doesn't change the fact that he sucks. He can be as highly ranked and decorated in whatever martial art, he simply doesn't use it effectively, and loosing to an old rusted tank like Coleman proves it.

[scurlaruntings]

:rofl I always used to imagine these guys like Baroni,Coleman,Randleman doing about 5 minutes on a treadmill in the morning then screaming at each other cardios for pussys then smacking the walls and going after the weights. After an long workout consisting of bicep curls and bench presses these guys gang up in the rest room by the mirrors inject each other and flex for about a half hour. Then they switch off to their MMA workout hit a few dead pads and then shoot for double legs discuss gameplans consisting of " hit him in the fucking face, take him down then punch his fucking ass and then Phil if he gets on top get the fuck up" Phil says " no Mark im the best ever" Mark says " I know but you have to get the fuck up dont fucking lay there " There corner adivce is priceless watch Baroni vs Minowa in the Welterweight 05 GP Baronis down and Marks screaming PHIL GET THE FUCK UP.:lol::lol::lol: Dude i remember it clearly. Coleman must have yelled PHIL GET UP about 30 times!!! Team Hammerhouse just dont get it. Dam shame as they were all incredibly talented.

Shit i cant stop laughing at your post :lol:

[scurlaruntings]

It doesn't change the fact that he sucks. He can be as highly ranked and decorated in whatever martial art, he simply doesn't use it effectively, and loosing to an old rusted tank like Coleman proves it.Dont you think im aware of that? :think I was merely pointing it out as a matter of course. As far as im concerned Bonnar shouldnt be allowed anywhere near the UFC. American Psycho my ass.

[scurlaruntings]

This is a forum, and as most forums do, it thrives on supposition. That is what you do in a forum, suppose things.

I'll say it again. Mark Coleman should have gotten involved in bjj, it would have made him better. Why that bothers you, I don't know.How about Shamrock? Reckon he might have done well at BJJ? What about Liddell Randleman Couture Baroni Henderson matter of fact ANY wrestler? Trust me Coleman would have tried to learn a sub defense at least and some basic Jujitsu. Newsflash the SHIT DIDNT WORK! :lol:

[jrow]

they only reson people used to think bonnar was even good was cuz of the 2 brawls with forrest,thats when forrest was in his brawling stage....forrest wouldnt even let the fight out of the 1st round if they fought now

[jimmie]

:lol::lol::lol: Dude i remember it clearly. Coleman must have yelled PHIL GET UP about 30 times!!! Team Hammerhouse just dont get it. Dam shame as they were all incredibly talented.

Shit i cant stop laughing at your post :lol:

Thats exactly how I see things going down there oh my god id love to have been a fly on the fucking wall when they trained there :rofl

[scurlaruntings]

Thats exactly how I see things going down there oh my god id love to have been a fly on the fucking wall when they trained there :roflMe and you both mate. Would surely have to be an absolute riot. Its frightening to think how much more they could have achieved if they evaluated what they did once in a while. Its not like they werent talented guys. They were just all high on hormones. Randleman looks like a meat sack and his body is broken down. And both Baroni and Coleman are clean and dropped huge amounts of weight. Its insane.

[jimmie]

Me and you both mate. Would surely have to be an absolute riot. Its frightening to think how much more they could have achieved if they evaluated what they did once in a while. Its not like they werent talented guys. They were just all high on hormones. Randleman looks like a meat sack and his body is broken down. And both Baroni and Coleman are clean and dropped huge amounts of weight. Its insane.

Exactly if you would have told me 2-3 years ago Coleman would drop to 205 and Baroni to 170 id say you where out of your mind but they did. Randleman WTF is up with him his last fight the guy looked like he had just borrowed the legs up a 12 year old girl they where incredibly skinny and he was wobbling on them the entire time. Then the idiot has Whitehead basically KOed then just lets him go.

[scurlaruntings]

Exactly if you would have told me 2-3 years ago Coleman would drop to 205 and Baroni to 170 id say you where out of your mind but they did. Randleman WTF is up with him his last fight the guy looked like he had just borrowed the legs up a 12 year old girl they where incredibly skinny and he was wobbling on them the entire time. Then the idiot has Whitehead basically KOed then just lets him go.I would have said the exact same thing. I pulled out his PRIDE GP win just to see how big he was in his prime. Although always having a fairly large midrift Coleman was a solid 240 plus lbs. Baroni also was a competitive BB in his youth and close to 220 inbetween fights. Im just shocked to see the massive diffrence in their physiques as they've come off hormones. Incredible to think really.

As for Randleman do you remember how HUGE his legs (quads espcially) used to be in the early UFC's? They were VERY vascular with huge veins shooting down them. Against Whitehead im guessing the years of Randleman not paying the obvious attention to his body's needs and rehabbing have taken their toll immensely. All he has left is his pride and fighting spirit. In his prime theres no way a guy like Whitehead could have lived with Kevin. Kevin didnt even have the gas tank left to pull the trigger. But alas remember in the last PRIDE when they came to Vegas Kevin submitted a urine sample that wasnt even human. That man has abused his body for such a long long time and now his body is crumbling. Remember his Staph infection? Surely one of the worst iv ever seen. Then the surgery on his lungs and they pulled out lbs of scar tissue. Kevin has some serious issues. The man loves pain too much.

[BewareofDawg]

Bonnar is truly the american psycho. Why the fuck would you leave a decent office job in Chicago to get beaten up month in and month out in a sport youre not good at?
:lol:

[BewareofDawg]

Calling Bonnar a shit fighter is really rewriting the script in order to downplay any credit that Coleman should be getting right now. Coleman should get a shitload of credit. Bonnar was certainly good enough to beat the likes of Jardine and Irwin... as well as go life and death in extremely close fights with Forrest Griffin and Rashad Evans. Give Coleman some credit.
I thought he deserved a draw in the first Griffin fight, but he lost to Jardine if I remember (at least I thought he lost). Definitely impressive for Coleman to beat him though.

[OuterDrake]

Coleman won cause he trains specifically in one art and the others to some effect.

Bonner like most mma fighters, train in too many disciplines and become "jack of all trades" fighter. Just like Bisping, Hendo won by simply focusing on his hands and maintaining his wrestling.

[jimmie]

Coleman won cause he trains specifically in one art and the others to some effect.

Bonner like most mma fighters, train in too many disciplines and become "jack of all trades" fighter. Just like Bisping, Hendo won by simply focusing on his hands and maintaining his wrestling.

Yeah I think we are starting to see a domination by specialzation type thing going on.

[scurlaruntings]

Yeah I think we are starting to see a domination by specialzation type thing going on.
But thats what MMA should always have been about. The most successful fighters always knew what there bread and butter were and complimented that with facets of other styles. Its now no longer mixed martial arts because we have a blended style thats its own hybrid and now needs its own name. Coleman clearly wrestles better than Bonnar can apply his black belt in TKD. Doesnt mean wrestling is better is just means Coleman is better at what he does than Bonnar is with his style. Too many try to cross train without actually becoming VERY good and one discipline.

[jimmie]

But thats what MMA should always have been about. The most successful fighters always knew what there bread and butter were and complimented that with facets of other styles. Its now no longer mixed martial arts because we have a blended style thats its own hybrid and now needs its own name. Coleman clearly wrestles better than Bonnar can apply his black belt in TKD. Doesnt mean wrestling is better is just means Coleman is better at what he does than Bonnar is with his style. Too many try to cross train without actually becoming VERY good and one discipline.

I agree you should be dominant at one thing and very good at the rest instead of just very good at everything because you will run up agianst a guy who is significantly better at one aspect and it makes the difference. Example is a guy like Rich Franklin who obviously has had a great career but he loses to Anderson Silva because Silva is great in the clinch while Franklin is just good although they are almost even in every area. Look at the current UFC Champions for example Brock is a NCCA Champion Wrestler, Anderson has high level Muay Thai skills, GSP has no wrestling credentials but hes developed that to the point where he could probablly compete in the Olympics and do well, Machida uses aspects of Karate and has mastered it something that noboddy else has done and then BJ is one of the finest BJJ fighters in history and all have something else to go along with there game. Its going to be hard for guys like Forrest or Franklin to be Champions agian or hold onto the title for long because they are not truely great or the word I used dominant at any aspect.

[boxingcar]

i still haven't seen this fight...any links ?

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

Trust me guys... the training at Hammer House isn't at all like you guys seem to think it was.

I will tell you right now what Mark Coleman's only problem has always been. He loves his kids. He simply can't stand being away from them for very long periods of time. He loves taking them to school, picking them up... being there for dinner, ect.... He trains like an animal when he is there, he is extremely intense. and he is an absolute beast when his mind is focused on fighting. Like I said though... his problem is that he usually can't stay in the gym all day like he should, because he doesn't want to miss out on anything with his kids. I can only think of two times that he took serious time away from his family to train. For the Bonnar fight, and before the Pride Grand Prix.

As for Baroni... well... he is just Baroni and will always be the way that he is. That has nothing to do with Hammer House. Kevin Randleman has natural talent out the ass, but he has no ability to fight calm and intelligently. He can't control his emotions in a fight and always ends up putting himself into a horrible position.

[Chud]

the fight, for anyone who hasnt seen it
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I thought he deserved a draw in the first Griffin fight, but he lost to Jardine if I remember (at least I thought he lost). Definitely impressive for Coleman to beat him though.
Bonnar beat Jardine.