Torres-Bowles, WEC 42 August 9th

[IntentionalButt]

Four months late, it's happening.

And the man who subbed in for him in April and staged a game effort with FOTY-candidate potential, is in the co-feature against Jeff Curran. :happy

How do these bantamweight battles play out?

[jimmie]

I like Mizugaki he seems hard to takedown and is a better striker then Curran. Bowles is a tough matchup hes well rounded and look he outstruck Will Riberio he could trouble Torres. I lean towards Torres hes an animal standing and or ground he looks like the type who will refuse to lose.

[cdnboxing]

I like Bowles. Good ground fighter, but Torres is going to light him up if it stays on the feet.

[Rattler]

Torres will stop him in the second round.

[Beebs]

I like Bowles. Good ground fighter, but Torres is going to light him up if it stays on the feet.


I don't see it going better on the ground either, maybe worse; it is Miguels base after all. No respect to Bowles, but he's going to need to be Buster Douglas out there.

Sadly Torres still won't get as much recognition as he deservess as a fighter as good as anybody in the world pfp, no exceptions. :-(

[jrow]

torres is the man i absolutely love watching his fights,he is a beast and very well rounded....i see him taking this fight easily

[IntentionalButt]

I know Miguel's exciting and all, but - no love for Mizu? :twisted:

He's basically the #2 BW until proven otherwise, as far as I'm concerned. :yep

[jimmie]

I know Miguel's exciting and all, but - no love for Mizu? :twisted:

He's basically the #2 BW until proven otherwise, as far as I'm concerned. :yep

Yeah the man came from Japan on like 3 weeks notice and probablly made it a 48-47 fight. Id love a rematch he deserves it with a win although I expect the Cruz-Benevidez winner to get a shot first.

[IntentionalButt]

Yeah the man came from Japan on like 3 weeks notice and probablly made it a 48-47 fight. Id love a rematch he deserves it with a win although I expect the Cruz-Benevidez winner to get a shot first.

How dangerous is Curran?

[cdnboxing]

I don't see it going better on the ground either, maybe worse; it is Miguels base after all. No respect to Bowles, but he's going to need to be Buster Douglas out there.

Sadly Torres still won't get as much recognition as he deservess as a fighter as good as anybody in the world pfp, no exceptions. :-(

The problem with Torres is the division he fights in. MMA just does not have the depth in the lighter weight classes like boxing does. And its not as deep as the higher weight classes in MMA.

Torres is a great fighter though but hes definitely beatable. But I dont think Bowles is the guy to do it.

[IntentionalButt]

The problem with Torres is the division he fights in. MMA just does not have the depth in the lighter weight classes like boxing does. And its not as deep as the higher weight classes in MMA.

Torres is a great fighter though but hes definitely beatable. But I dont think Bowles is the guy to do it.

Barring the obvious choices of GSP, Silva, and Fedor (maybe Machida and Penn as well) - who do you rank above Torres in p4p terms? :huh

[jrow]

i think urijah faber will drop down to 135 soon an give torres a run 4 his money if he dont beat him

[Grievesy]

Torres will TKO Bowles me thinks. I don't think there is a guy in the BW division who can beat him. Perhaps a move up to FW is in order after he beats Bowles.:yep

I've got a lot of respect for Mizugaki now after the excellent performance he gave against Torres. He gave Torres the most trouble that I've seen. I'm expecting him to pull out another good performance against Curran. Probs a TKO.

[IntentionalButt]

It's almost Torres (and Mizugaki) time! :ibutt

[jimmie]

How dangerous is Curran?

Not dangerous at all on his feet but hes a big threat with his BJJ. Curran is a Blackbelt under Pedro Sauer who comes from Rickson Gracie. Watch his fight for Urijah Faber although he eventually got caught in a wicked Guillotine he gave Urijah trouble he had his back for awhile and nearly finished. Hes about as much or alittle less a threat then Torres was with his BJJ cause he couldnt take down Mizugaki or keep him in his guard as Mizugaki is stong and just stands back up. Curran is hard to finish though and if Mizugaki lets him hang around Curran could always pull off something. All in all I feel Curran will join Pulver as the WEC vets on a 4 fight losing streak.

[ryanty22]

mizu by dec and torres by mid round stoppage pretty cut and dried unless their opp. have the fight of their lives and the stars align. it should be interesting to watch though, i love watching torres fight

[Beebs]

Jeff Curran could sub Mizugaki if things go his way, he is a great grappler, had Faber's back for an extended period.

[jimmie]

Jeff Curran could sub Mizugaki if things go his way, he is a great grappler, had Faber's back for an extended period.

Damn straight I wish he would be given a softer fight. Faber,Brown,Benevidez and now Mizugaki. This proves how loaded the WEC is that guys like Curran and Pulver have like a 2-7 record in that company.

[IntentionalButt]

Yeah, yeah - I know there's bigger fish to fry in the next ten hours, but don't forget about this excellent after-dinner-mint tomorrow.

[Grievesy]

This needs another bump!

There's some good fights on this card. Torres-Bowles, Curran-Mizugaki plus Joseph Benavidez and Leonard Garcia a both fighting. I reckon this will be better than the card last night!:bbb:good

[jimmie]

This needs another bump!

There's some good fights on this card. Torres-Bowles, Curran-Mizugaki plus Joseph Benavidez and Leonard Garcia a both fighting. I reckon this will be better than the card last night!:bbb:good

Yup this card should be much better then the UFCs. Torres and Bowles always come to fight their asses of and I think Torres has been involved in 2 of the best ever (Mizugaki,Maeda)

[Filmnpuck]

Torres is just a bad, bad man. Wins by ownage in the 2nd.

I'll take Mizugaki by UD.

[québecwarrior]

Torres is a bad man

[IntentionalButt]

Lot of people giving Bowles respect, but nobody giving him a chance. :think

[Grievesy]

Another great thing about tonight is that it's being broadcast live on WEC.tv to people outside America. You wouldn't believe the trouble I had last night trying to find a stream for the UFC that didn't get shut down.:happy

[IntentionalButt]

Are there 10-8 rounds in MMA? Cruz just absolutely dominated Benavidez in that 2nd; I don't care that he didn't capitalize on any of his TDs with any sub attempts.

[IntentionalButt]

Joseph gave this fight away by keeping up the same old shit in the third. The high-risk maneuvers continue to be ineffective against a guy that's got them spotted (the spinning backfists and leaping uppercuts are still missing - and widely - almost every single time), he's still not shooting, and he's getting tagged constantly.

Upset, 2-1 Cruz. He clearly won two thirds of this fight, it will be a robbery if he doesn't get the nod (and I'm in the camp that thinks that word is thrown around too much...)

[IntentionalButt]

Bowles is built like a fucking action figure.

He's relentless - we've seen Miguel face adversity but has he ever been kept on the defensive and backed up consistently? Miguel able to turn it around - and Bowles, too can take a shot (or ten)...

HOLY FUCK WHAT A KNOCKOUT. :scaredas:

[OuterDrake]

is it to late to vote....KTFo

[Tuffnutz]

I always thought Torres was overated.

[Tuffnutz]

Bowles is built like a fucking action figure.



:lol:

[CameronC]

I knew Bowles would KO Torres. Tough little fokker

[IntentionalButt]

:lol: @ the guys picking Bowles bv stoppage now. :!:

[Grievesy]

Damn my stream had to cut out just before the KO.:lol:

On another note, Torres lost.:|

[Filmnpuck]

Wow.

[IntentionalButt]

The next bantamweight fights I'd love to see, right away (like WEC 45, 46 at the latest):

Mizugaki vs. Cruz (potential FOTY, for a shot at the rematch winner)
Torres vs. Bowles II (yes, it was a brutal first round KO but Miguel showed his usual multi-facetedness before getting caught and Bowles himself admitted he got buzzed en route to getting the job done).

:good

[Filmnpuck]

Good for Bowles. I've always thought he seemed like a good guy. I just didn't think he was in Torres' class. Turns out I was wrong.


I seriously doubt we've seen the last of Torres, though.

[Grievesy]

The next bantamweight fights I'd love to see, right away (like WEC 45, 46 at the latest):

Mizugaki vs. Cruz (for a shot at the rematch winner)
Torres vs. Bowles II

:good

Definately would love to see Mizugaki - Cruz. That fight would be awesome.

Torres - Bowles II? Was Torres kinda unlucky with the KO or something?

[IntentionalButt]

Definately would love to see Mizugaki - Cruz. That fight would be awesome.

Torres - Bowles II? Was Torres kinda unlucky with the KO or something?

You just narrowly missed my edit. :good

[Grievesy]

You just narrowly missed my edit. :good

Ahh I see. My fucking stream had to cut off at that fucking moment? Piece of shit!

[Filmnpuck]

Definately would love to see Mizugaki - Cruz. That fight would be awesome.

Torres - Bowles II? Was Torres kinda unlucky with the KO or something?

Wouldn't call it luck. Bowles has power and he caught him. But Torres was on the attack when he got caught. They both landed a couple of good shots on each other during the round. Which, of course, is pretty standard for Torres fights. He wins fights, but he always takes his lumps in the process, too.

[cdnboxing]

I'm happy for Bowles.

I've always acknowledged Torres is the best BW, but I always believe he had quite a few flaws. Hes nowhere near the world beater people thought he was. And Bowles proved it.

Torres needs to clean up his striking, far to wild, far to open. When Brian Bowles knocks you out, you need to make some adjustments, plain and simple.

I like Bowles but hes not a good striker. I thought right from the opening bell that he was in trouble, but his chin held up well and was able to recover well.

[IntentionalButt]

Wouldn't call it luck. Bowles has power and he caught him. But Torres was on the attack when he got caught. They both landed a couple of good shots on each other during the round. Which, of course, is pretty standard for Torres fights. He wins fights, but he always takes his lumps in the process, too.

If anything you have to credit Bowles' chin as much as his power. Torres was clearly anxious (maybe not scared, but definitely surprised) after facing down the early aggression, after gaining a little confidence upon getting off his back he wanted to take it to Brian and unloaded on him. Major credit to Bowles for saying in the post fight interview "yeah i got hurt.." (far too few fighters admit that shit, even when it's obvious...like it's anything to be ashamed of...you fucking won, give your opponent some props...) but yeah, in the heat of the moment he didn't even think about taking a step out of harm's way. Kid was fire.

[Filmnpuck]

I'm happy for Bowles.

I've always acknowledged Torres is the best BW, but I always believe he had quite a few flaws. Hes nowhere near the world beater people thought he was. And Bowles proved it.

Torres needs to clean up his striking, far to wild, far to open. When Brian Bowles knocks you out, you need to make some adjustments, plain and simple.



The way I see it, Torres could take the loss in one of two ways. Either he won't be the same fighter again, or he'll take the route of GSP after losing to Serra, and recognize his faults and make himself a smarter all-around fighter. Like GSP, he certainly has all the tools. Only time will tell.

At the same time, dude was 36-1 on a 17-fight win streak. Sometimes shit happens in this sport.

[Grievesy]

One thing that really got on my nerves last night was Mir. While at times he is a very knowledgable commentator, he is so fucking biased. He actually had the Mizugaki-Curran fight for Curran easily. He was always pointing out what Curran was doing when Mizugaki was doing something better, like the fact that Mizugaki stuffed Curran's takedown for pretty much the whole first round then took Curran down yet it was 'Curran's finally got him down'.

Then as soon as Curran attempted a triangle Mir says that he almost had it on when it was far from in and saying that Curran should win the fight because he attempted 4 trinagles:patsch. Mir was on Curran's nuts all night. Pissed me right off!

[Filmnpuck]

One thing that really got on my nerves last night was Mir. While at times he is a very knowledgable commentator, he is so fucking biased. He actually had the Mizugaki-Curran fight for Curran easily. He was always pointing out what Curran was doing when Mizugaki was doing something better, like the fact that Mizugaki stuffed Curran's takedown for pretty much the whole first round then took Curran down yet it was 'Curran's finally got him down'.

Then as soon as Curran attempted a triangle Mir says that he almost had it on when it was far from in and saying that Curran should win the fight because he attempted 4 trinagles:patsch. Mir was on Curran's nuts all night. Pissed me right off!

In fairness I thought he was right about the Curran fight. I thought dude won the second and third rounds from his back. Close fight nonetheless.

[Grievesy]

In fairness I thought he was right about the Curran fight. I thought dude won the second and third rounds from his back. Close fight nonetheless.

Really? I know people see different things in fights and it's fairly subjective, but I thought Mizugaki won the first two rounds but lost the third. I think he did well to survive that triangle.

Nevertheless, Mir was very biased in the fight imo.

[IntentionalButt]

In fairness I thought he was right about the Curran fight. I thought dude won the second and third rounds from his back. Close fight nonetheless.


Did you give him the second because of the choke attempt he held for the last minute? It was the most dominant minute of the round, as Takeya couldn't and didn't move, so I can definitely see that - but I don't think his striking was superior in his guard or on their feet for the previous four minutes...I typically award the round to whoever won substantially more of it, unless one fraction of it was dominated in eye-popping fashion (ie in boxing, a KD or two toward the end of a round someone had otherwise been losing).

[Beebs]

Absolutely heartbroken, sucks to see my favorite of what was the absolute top tier pfp lose after his long run.

It looks like he got a little too confident in his ability to do everything. Instead of trying to just recover after that shot, he went straight into the armbar, and that is what got him KO'd.

I think Dominic Cruz looks like he will beat Bowles, but I just underestimated Bowles in this fight, so who knows.

Hopefully Torres gets a good training camp for his next fight and works on his game plan a little more specifically rather than just going with the fight. Maybe not be so willing to stand and box with everybody; he can usually do it, but Bowles showed why it isn't always a good idea.

Torres has talked about not shooting for takedowns; I think its time he changed that policy.

Even after getting hit solidly once towards the start of the fight, and showing that he was far better than Bowles on the ground, even on bottom, he didn't even think about shooting or clinching for a takedown. I hate to say it becasue Torres has proven that he has great striking in other fights against very hard hitting guys who made their name as strikers, but he needs to start taking guys down, its just a complete waste of his talent not to.

[Beebs]

The way I see it, Torres could take the loss in one of two ways. Either he won't be the same fighter again, or he'll take the route of GSP after losing to Serra, and recognize his faults and make himself a smarter all-around fighter. Like GSP, he certainly has all the tools. Only time will tell.

At the same time, dude was 36-1 on a 17-fight win streak. Sometimes shit happens in this sport.

He absolutely needs to follow GSP's plan. Not just the mental idea of it, but the implementation of the gameplan. Take far less risks with the striking, and get either to a dominant striking situation, or more realistically get the fight to the ground, where he is better than everybody.

Rather than just going out there and fighting wherever the opponent wants, he needs to dictate it right away. He did a good job of it against Mizugaki, pressing him against the cage, but in other fights he has just been willing to do whatever the opponent wants because he is generally good enough to.

[Beebs]

Also I think Torres needs to stick with his trainers in Chicago, or bring somebody in; the idea of him training with Dellagrotte, who is a great coach mind you, for just a week or two rather than continuing his previous coaching probably had a lot to do with him looking worse in the stand up department.

Dellagrotte is a great coach, but he is somebody who needs time to work with guys, you don't just train with one guy forever and then suddenly start training for the first time with a totally different style trainer a week before the fight and try to change what has gotten you where you are.

His style is just so the opposite of mine. He's more smooth, more relaxed, more of a thinker, more of a game plan kind of guy, I'm more of a fighter's fighter. I want to go out there and beat people up. He started giving me his philosophy of fighting, told me that he couldn't change the way I fought, but if I can add elements of his style into mine, I can be unstoppable. I can be dangerous. I'm trying to incorporate a little bit of strategy, a little bit of finesse instead of always being so dangerous.

That is all well and good in between fights, or maybe even at the start of a camp, but not the week before. Maybe Dellagrotte can improve his standup, but tinkering the week before the fight probably hurt him.

[cdnboxing]

Torres is just not as great as everybody thought he was. Hes definitely good, hes definitely exciting to watch but he's got a ton of flaws on the feet. I said before on this board, hes the most beatable of all the top p4p guys.

I rewatched the fight, and Bowles actually looked better than I thought and Torres looked even worse than I thought. Torres really didnt do anything the whole fight. Bowles dropped Torres twice, took him down.

[Beebs]

I'm happy for Bowles.

I've always acknowledged Torres is the best BW, but I always believe he had quite a few flaws. Hes nowhere near the world beater people thought he was. And Bowles proved it.

Torres needs to clean up his striking, far to wild, far to open. When Brian Bowles knocks you out, you need to make some adjustments, plain and simple.

I like Bowles but hes not a good striker. I thought right from the opening bell that he was in trouble, but his chin held up well and was able to recover well.

You are definitely underrating Bowles' striking he got the better of the stand up with Ribeiro, who was a Brazilian Olympic program boxer at 16, multiple time state champ, as well as having a very solid thai boxing record.

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Bowles can defiantly strike.