Aaron Pyor had loaded glove ala (Retso)? (Panama Lewis)

[Hatesrats]

I think so, what's your opinion ? (Vs. Arguello & before.....)
Yes/No?

[Mr Butt]

no

[divac]

If the bottle controversy was'nt enough, we have Resto's testimony that not only had Panama took the paddings off his gloves in different fights, but his testimony say's Panama did it to other fighters of his.....

It dont get any lower than Panama Lewis, and as far as I'm concerned Pryor's 14th round KO of Alexis Arguello is tainted.

[PowerPuncher]

Pryor must have landed 1000shots from and outboxed and beat up Arguello from start to finnish. Pryor doesn't need loaded gloves to knock Arguello out with 1000punched and the black bottle theory doesn't stand up under scrutiny either. This fight was a clinic and 1 where Arguello didn't win a round, you should watch it and learn.

[My2Sense]

From The Boxing Register:

"Rumors that Pryor's turnaround was boosted by an illegal substance in his water bottle or by less than the required padding in his gloves were never substantiated."

[My2Sense]

Pryor doesn't need loaded gloves to knock Arguello out with 1000punched ...

He does if he felt the need to put them in.

... and the black bottle theory doesn't stand up under scrutiny either.

Actually, it holds up quite well.

This fight was a clinic and 1 where Arguello didn't win a round, you should watch it and learn.

Anyone who's watched the fight has learned that Arguello won numerous rounds over the second half of the fight.

[TheGreatA]

Arguello had to have a chin made of granite then.

If it's true though, then it does taint Pryor's win over Arguello (and it's his only really big win to be honest). I don't really count the rematch as much because Arguello was a broken man by then.

Arguello himself however had no complaints about Pryor and the two remained friends over the years.

"Panama" Lewis said that the bottle only contained mineral water or something.

[PowerPuncher]

1. He does if he felt the need to put them in.

2. Actually, it holds up quite well.

3. Anyone who's watched the fight has learned that Arguello won numerous rounds over the second half of the fight.

1. He didn't feel the need to load his gloves though. You can't throw 1000s of punches with loaded gloves because your hands would also be smashed to pieces too

2. Not if you have a clue about performancing enhancing drugs and are actually impartial as opposed to a rabid Arguello (RIP) nuthugger

3. Pryor was outlanding Arguello by around 10-1 round on round, Arguello landed a massive right late in the fight but it was an isolated moment in the round and didnt give him the round. It was a domination, a complete domination.

PRYOR WON EVERY ROUND

[Flea Man]

pryor didn't win every round. powerpuncher go fuckin hang yourself, you know fuck all about the sport.

[PowerPuncher]

pryor didn't win every round. powerpuncher go fuckin hang yourself, you know fuck all about the sport.

:| Still crying about this fight, your nothing but an Arguello nutthugger and have no authority, never stepped in the ring, and I'd rather hang granddad cheers :good(I could have made quite a tasteless joke about your hero here, but Arguello is a good man unlike a homosexual fanboy like yourself)

Arguello is a great fighter but Pryor beat him pillor from post round after round, got outlanded 10-1 in every round.

If you had a clue about the boxing game and want to see the real reason your hero lost the fight its allot easier see than bottles and gloves, look at your heros footwork and handspeed, its 5 levels below Pryors. But the reason Pryor doesnt walk around the ring like a mummy is because of the 'black bottle' right? :lol: FUCKWITS

[TheGreatA]

In reality Pryor was winning the fight narrowly on two scorecards and was losing by two points on the third.

[PowerPuncher]

In reality Pryor was winning the fight narrowly on two scorecards and was losing by two points on the third.

The cards were pure bullshit then

[natonic]

The cards were pure bullshit then

I apologize to the other board members for opening this can of worms, but I get tired of listening to the shit you spew. Your analysis of fighters follow two lines: 1.) Modern fighters are greater than fighters from the past. 2.) Black fighters are greater than fighters of any other race. The only time I've seen you favor an "old-time" fighter over a modern fighter was when the "old-time" fighter was black and the modern fighter wasn't black.
That's all you have. That's all you offer to the board other than constantly reminding us you're a nutritionist and picking fights based on the almighty modern weigh-in rules.
Pryor won every single round against Arguello? That's a fucking absurd statement. You let the man rest in peace for 2 weeks until you start ripping his abilities. Fuck off.

[PowerPuncher]

I apologize to the other board members for opening this can of worms, but I get tired of listening to the shit you spew. Your analysis of fighters follow two lines: 1.) Modern fighters are greater than fighters from the past. 2.) Black fighters are greater than fighters of any other race. The only time I've seen you favor an "old-time" fighter over a modern fighter was when the "old-time" fighter was black and the modern fighter wasn't black.
That's all you have. That's all you offer to the board other than constantly reminding us you're a nutritionist and picking fights based on the almighty modern weigh-in rules.
Pryor won every single round against Arguello? That's a fucking absurd statement. You let the man rest in peace for 2 weeks until you start ripping his abilities. Fuck off.

Firstly score card or Shut The Fuck Bitch. I've seen the fight numerous times and Pryor outlands Arguello massively in every round, Arguello maybe edged a late round or 2 if that and kept some rounds competitive while losing them.

Secondly those aren't my thoughts, but I know boxing, practically all the none-boxers on Classic dont, most of you haven't stepped in a ring and if you have you got your asses kicked at a low level BUT way to play the race card anyway

Last off Arguello dying doesn't suddenly mean he had excellent footwork, defense and hand speed. Because he didn't and thats why he lost and no other reason, excellent strengths but weaknesses that could be exposed by Pryor and others

Respect Pryor he won fair and square, because of boxing ability, relentlessness, a great chin and great stamina

[Mendoza]

Arguello had to have a chin made of granite then.

If it's true though, then it does taint Pryor's win over Arguello (and it's his only really big win to be honest). I don't really count the rematch as much because Arguello was a broken man by then.

Arguello himself however had no complaints about Pryor and the two remained friends over the years.

"Panama" Lewis said that the bottle only contained mineral water or something.

" Give me that bottle " " No-no the one I mixed ! "

Panama Lewis was a known cheater. I won't say he did something to Pryor's gloves though.

[natonic]

Firstly score card or Shut The Fuck Bitch. I've seen the fight numerous times and Pryor outlands Arguello massively in every round, Arguello maybe edged a late round or 2 if that and kept some rounds competitive while losing them.

Secondly those aren't my thoughts, but I know boxing, practically all the none-boxers on Classic dont, most of you haven't stepped in a ring and if you have you got your asses kicked at a low level BUT way to play the race card anyway

Last off Arguello dying doesn't suddenly mean he had excellent footwork, defense and hand speed. Because he didn't and thats why he lost and no other reason, excellent strengths but weaknesses that could be exposed by Pryor and others

Respect Pryor he won fair and square, because of boxing ability, relentlessness, a great chin and great stamina

Firstly, I respect Pryor. Think he's a great fighter. Is his hand speed and foot speed FIVE levels above Arguello? No, that's an absurd statement. How many levels above Pryor technically would that make Arguello? 10 maybe 15? Was the win over Arguello suspect? I wish it wasn't but can't say for sure.

Secondly, I've never heard you make a racist remark, you just favor black fighters to an absurd level. Feel free to refute this with some evidence from previous posts.

Thirdly, I've been in the ring. At what level? I guess that's relative. Open level, golden gloves, in a large U.S. City. Unless I should call you Mr. Benn or Mr. Eubank, I'd guess my ring experience was comparable to yours. It doesn't matter anyway. Jimmy Jacobs was a great handball player, but I guess you know more about boxing than he did too, right? How about Ray Arcel? I'm pretty sure he never boxed.

Lastly, "Firstly score card or Shut The Fuck Bitch." Try putting together a complete, civilized statement and maybe we can talk, otherwise go make a protein shake.

p.s. My 5 all time favorite fighters, before you go there, not a white guy in the group: Sal Sanchez, Ray Leonard, Alexis Arguello, Carlos Monzon, Julio Cesar Chavez.

[BazookaJab]

Delete.

[PowerPuncher]

1. Firstly, I respect Pryor. Think he's a great fighter. Is his hand speed and foot speed FIVE levels above Arguello? No, that's an absurd statement. How many levels above Pryor technically would that make Arguello? 10 maybe 15? Was the win over Arguello suspect? I wish it wasn't but can't say for sure.

2. Secondly, I've never heard you make a racist remark, you just favor black fighters to an absurd level. Feel free to refute this with some evidence from previous posts.

3. Thirdly, I've been in the ring. At what level? I guess that's relative. Open level, golden gloves, in a large U.S. City. Unless I should call you Mr. Benn or Mr. Eubank, I'd guess my ring experience was comparable to yours. It doesn't matter anyway. Jimmy Jacobs was a great handball player, but I guess you know more about boxing than he did too, right? How about Ray Arcel? I'm pretty sure he never boxed.

4. Lastly, "Firstly score card or Shut The Fuck Bitch." Try putting together a complete, civilized statement and maybe we can talk, otherwise go make a protein shake.

p.s. My 5 all time favorite fighters, before you go there, not a white guy in the group: Sal Sanchez, Ray Leonard, Alexis Arguello, Carlos Monzon, Julio Cesar Chavez.

1. Yes Arguello is technically allot better than Pryor, levels is a questionable matter ofcourse. I've been through the black bottle argument many times, hence my annoyance. Firstly if you want to take a stimulant you can take it 60-120 before hand to get maximal effects from it, so no need to take it between rounds. Secondly taking it in water would make it impossible to take a correct dose which could overdose the fighter or not give him nearly enough. Not to mention the fighter would actually have to digest the substance and if he got hit while ingesting it would painfully wind him.

2. My favourate fighters happen to be mainly black Tyson, Ali, Whitaker, Mayweather, Leonard, Robinson, Burley, Jones except for 2 men Roberto Duran and Sanchez. I'm a fan of speed, skills and defense. For the record despite being a fan of his skills I've met FMJ and he's a bit of a cock

I highly appreciate many none blk fighters too like Pep, Tunney, Benny Leonard and to a lesser degree Marciano. Last week I had a multi-page argument defending Calzaghe (albeit against )

3. If you'd competed at that level wouldn't you say fighting a man with a good 10-15lbs who's near to you in skills is an uphill battle? You were after all critisising my comments about modern advantages with modern 24hour weigh ins.

4. You told me 'fuck off' first, but seriously have you seen this fight in its entirity? Arguello had his moments but I'd be struggling to give him any rounds based on Pryor massively outlanding him in every round

[Sweet Pea]

:lol:PowerPuncher is such a dumb fuck.

[Rico Spadafora]

Arguello had to have a chin made of granite then.

If it's true though, then it does taint Pryor's win over Arguello (and it's his only really big win to be honest). I don't really count the rematch as much because Arguello was a broken man by then.

Arguello himself however had no complaints about Pryor and the two remained friends over the years.

"Panama" Lewis said that the bottle only contained mineral water or something.

Panama Lewis has claimed the black bottle contained ice cold tap water "mixed" with mineral water (Perrier). You don't "mix" water with water.

Ace Marotta who was the cut man in Pryor's corner for the first Pryor fight said it was Peppermint Schnapps mixed with water. The reason he gave is Pryor was having stomach issues and was burping in the locker room before the fight and that mixture would help tame it for the duration of the fight.

Marotta was a very credible person and was a very honest man. I will believe him over Panama Lewis any day.

[PbP Bacon]

Suddenly, this place feels just like the general forum :yep

[barrykil1980]

black bottle my bollocks.Pryor was bigger fresher and better than Arguello.Its as simple as that.

[My2Sense]

1. He didn't feel the need to load his gloves though.

You don't know that.

You can't throw 1000s of punches with loaded gloves because your hands would also be smashed to pieces too

Luis Resto demonstrated otherwise. Maybe Margarito has too.

2. Not if you have a clue about performancing enhancing drugs and are actually impartial as opposed to a rabid Arguello (RIP) nuthugger

A guy with a clue about performing enhancing drugs not only would know he could, but is exactly the kind of person who would've mixed and administered those drugs to him.

3. Pryor was outlanding Arguello by around 10-1 round on round, Arguello landed a massive right late in the fight but it was an isolated moment in the round and didnt give him the round.

No it wasn't, Arguello landed numerous big right hands in the late rounds that snapped Pryor's head back, and also landed a number of big body shots. He won numerous rounds.

[My2Sense]

The cards were pure bullshit then

No, they weren't. Most people watching the fight had Pryor with only a close lead going into the 14th round. That includes Panama Lewis, who told his man he needed to win the last two rounds as he gave him the bottle.

[divac]

Arguello had to have a chin made of granite then.

If it's true though, then it does taint Pryor's win over Arguello (and it's his only really big win to be honest). I don't really count the rematch as much because Arguello was a broken man by then.

Arguello himself however had no complaints about Pryor and the two remained friends over the years.

"Panama" Lewis said that the bottle only contained mineral water or something.


Arguello had too much class to verbally complain about something that could not be proven beyond a doubt......

Arguello and Pryor did become friends and remained so till' the day he passed......

Pryor has told this in public interviews before, he's said, Arguello has often told him, "C'mon Aaron, what was in that bottle?"
......it was likely said in a joking matter by Arguello to Pryor.....

.....but personally, I believe Arguello to believe that something was not on the up and up in his first fight with Pryor......the reason I believe so is that Arguello declined to comment and be interviewed on HBO's legendary nights series when it related about his bout with Pryor.....

This is just my personal opinion, but I believe that Arguello declined to be interviewed because he did'nt want to take the chance of opening a can of worms if probed by the HBO guys doing that legendary nights episode.


My point is that deep down I believe Arguello harbored some bitterness over the black bottle and Panama Lewis in Pryor's corner, and although he never verbally complained about it publicly, the fact that he declined to comment about his own fight in a legendary nights episode, is a signal to me of a silent protest by Arguello.


Why else would Arguello not want to comment about his fight in HBO's legendary nights the tale of Arguello-Pryor?

[My2Sense]

Arguello had too much class to verbally complain about something that could not be proven beyond a doubt......

Arguello and Pryor did become friends and remained so till' the day he passed......

Pryor has told this in public interviews before, he's said, Arguello has often told him, "C'mon Aaron, what was in that bottle?"
......it was likely said in a joking matter by Arguello to Pryor.....

.....but personally, I believe Arguello to believe that something was not on the up and up in his first fight with Pryor......the reason I believe so is that Arguello declined to comment and be interviewed on HBO's legendary nights series when it related about his bout with Pryor.....

This is just my personal opinion, but I believe that Arguello declined to be interviewed because he did'nt want to take the chance of opening a can of worms if probed by the HBO guys doing that legendary nights episode.


My point is that deep down I believe Arguello harbored some bitterness over the black bottle and Panama Lewis in Pryor's corner, and although he never verbally complained about it publicly, the fact that he declined to comment about his own fight in a legendary nights episode, is a signal to me of a silent protest by Arguello.


Why else would Arguello not want to comment about his fight in HBO's legendary nights the tale of Arguello-Pryor?

Arguello has commented on the matter, actually.

This is from an interview he did for Peter Heller:

"Somebody gave him something, because if I was tired, he would have been tired too. Pryor didn't win the fight. The drugs made him win. Then I found out the Pryor people paid not to go to the exam that has to be done for any world championship fight. His exam never took place. They did mine, because I did it in front of people, before and after [the fight]. They never did it. They paid. The person that got the money told me."

[divac]

Arguello has commented on the matter, actually.

This is from an interview he did for Peter Heller:

"Somebody gave him something, because if I was tired, he would have been tired too. Pryor didn't win the fight. The drugs made him win. Then I found out the Pryor people paid not to go to the exam that has to be done for any world championship fight. His exam never took place. They did mine, because I did it in front of people, before and after [the fight]. They never did it. They paid. The person that got the money told me."

The interview with Peter Heller, was that during the 80's??????......because the only time that Arguello spoke of the black bottle incident publicly that I saw was right before his second fight with Aaron Pryor.......
CBS did a piece on it and had both fighters in studio (this is before Pryor and Arguello became friends) when CBS showed Panama asking for the bottle that had been mixed, the camera turned to Arguello in studio and he had this look on him of a laugh like, "unbelievable that these guys are doing that."

......but as the years went by, Arguello already having been beaten in the rematch, from what I know, and I've seen quite a few Arguello interviews during the years.....
.....Arguello never brought out the black bottle incident as an excuse, and if it was mentioned, he may have commented nonchalantly on the issue, but he never harped on it......

Arguello was just that type of individual, it happened, what can you do, lets move on.
Could it had been that Arguello really knew, but just did'nt want to paint boxing in a bad light????
Who knows, but he was just that type of a class individual.

[My2Sense]

The interview with Peter Heller, was that during the 80's??????

Yes.

Heller gives the date as November 18, 1986.

[heehoo]

Nah.

If he did have the padding removed and had plaster of Paris in his two fights with Arguello (R.I.P.), Arguello's face would look like Billy Collins', maybe even worse with all the punches he threw.

[JohnThomas1]

Arguello has commented on the matter, actually.

This is from an interview he did for Peter Heller:

"Somebody gave him something, because if I was tired, he would have been tired too. Pryor didn't win the fight. The drugs made him win. Then I found out the Pryor people paid not to go to the exam that has to be done for any world championship fight. His exam never took place. They did mine, because I did it in front of people, before and after [the fight]. They never did it. They paid. The person that got the money told me."

This is part of what i was looking for for GPrater! I fukking knew this went down, just couldn't find it.

Cheers

[Flea Man]

:lol:PowerPuncher is such a dumb fuck.

never a truer word spoken :lol::good

[GPater11093]

Arguello had too much class to verbally complain about something that could not be proven beyond a doubt......

Arguello and Pryor did become friends and remained so till' the day he passed......

Pryor has told this in public interviews before, he's said, Arguello has often told him, "C'mon Aaron, what was in that bottle?"
......it was likely said in a joking matter by Arguello to Pryor.....

.....but personally, I believe Arguello to believe that something was not on the up and up in his first fight with Pryor......the reason I believe so is that Arguello declined to comment and be interviewed on HBO's legendary nights series when it related about his bout with Pryor.....

This is just my personal opinion, but I believe that Arguello declined to be interviewed because he did'nt want to take the chance of opening a can of worms if probed by the HBO guys doing that legendary nights episode.


My point is that deep down I believe Arguello harbored some bitterness over the black bottle and Panama Lewis in Pryor's corner, and although he never verbally complained about it publicly, the fact that he declined to comment about his own fight in a legendary nights episode, is a signal to me of a silent protest by Arguello.


Why else would Arguello not want to comment about his fight in HBO's legendary nights the tale of Arguello-Pryor?

My freind is big freinds with Aaron after meeting him at an after dinner speech and later at the IBHOF, they stay in regular contact.

heres what hes told me ive paraphrased


Arguello and Pryor were inseperable buddies, they did everything together when with each other and were always laughing and joking. There was no bad blood between them, as if Arguello had a deep down bitterness surely he wouldnt be mates with Pryor

also i thimk Arguello has had too much class to speek out against it. They dont make them like Alexis any more.

This is part of what i was looking for for GPrater! I fukking knew this went down, just couldn't find it.

Cheers

thanks for thinking about me it was an intresting if belated read :good

[JMMisking]

All that matters is that Pryor`s win is forever tainted after drinking out of that black bottle and somehow rebounding to stop Alexis in the 14, after getting a drubbing from Alexis in the 13