Leonard-Duran 2 and 3 are incredibly underrated wins

[PowerPuncher]

I watched these 2 the other day after many years, if you haven't seen them recently or not at all I highly recommend the second fight. Duran was 71-1, just beaten Leonard giving him a nasty beating and on the basis of his career at this stage is rated as a top10 an all time P4P lists and . Duran said he was going to KO Leonard this time.

Leonard drastically changed his gameplan, fought to his strengths movement, controlling the pace and range with his first punch, ie get the jab working, and holding at mid-close range. Some people say Leonard tried to do all this in the first fight, PURE BULLSHIT, he just didn't employ these tactics. If you can't see Leonard fought a different fight in the rematch, you're dumb, simple as that.

Duran still had cat like reactions, fast feet, fast hands but Leonard was using very fast evasive movement that didn't let Duran get set and didn't let him get in punching range, some will call it running. I was pretty impressed Leonard managed to dance for 8-9 rounds like that, if you've boxed and tried that type of movement you will know it isn't easy to do that for long. Leonard new he couldn't fight Duran at mid-range and have a hope of winning.

1 bullshit statement I've heard about this second is (the fight was close, each had won about the same amount of rounds). I thought Leonard won pretty much every round and I think thats why Duran quit, no one had outboxed him round after round like that before, he was getting embarrassed and didnt like losing

Now the case people put against Leonard was he picked a quick Duran rematch because he knew Duran was out of shape after the win. In actual fact Leonard didnt even want a rematch but his manager pushed for it.

So anyway wait a miniute is this the first time Duran blew up between fights? Or did he always blow up eating crap and getting pissed senseless and work like a demon to get the weight of?

What evidence is there that this Duran isn't every bit as good as the Duran of the first fight? Leonard effectively using different tactics and outboxed him. Thats the only real proof. Some say Duran shit him self but I haven't seen any evidence of this (ie his shorts). I'm not saying Duran wasn't quite as good but far too much is made of this, maybe he wasn't but he was still Duran and Leonard's wins is 1 of the best in history

This brings me to Leonard-Duran 3, Duran just became a MW world champion beating Barkley, Leonard really just lost to Hearns (who lost to Barkley). They both weigh 160 but fight for the SMW titles. Leonard wins a 1 sided decision putting on a bit of a masterclass and giving Duran a bit of beating at times. Duran was past his prime at 38 but so was Leonard at 33/34 (I forget) and Duran had just became MW champ and his fans love to shout about the Barkley win while ignoring Leonard's win here :-(

I'm a big Duran fan but these constant excuses have become a joke, Leonard proved himself the better Welterweight and both his wins over Duran are excellent, the second fight is a great win

[Sweet Pea]

:-((:dead

[Robbi]

I think the rematch win by Leonard is rated. Anyway, you'll find an excuse of some kind for most losing efforts in fights. If you can find an excuse for Duran in New Orleans, you can find one for Leonard in Montreal. :good

[PowerPuncher]

I think the rematch win by Leonard is rated. Anyway, you'll find an excuse of some kind for most losing efforts in fights. If you can find an excuse for Duran in New Orleans, you can find one for Leonard in Montreal. :good

I've heard people say 'That wasn't Duran, the last we saw of the 'Real Duran' was the Brawl in Montreal'

[Bokaj]

I watched these 2 the other day after many years, if you haven't seen them recently or not at all I highly recommend the second fight. Duran was 71-1, just beaten Leonard giving him a nasty beating and on the basis of his career at this stage is rated as a top10 an all time P4P lists and . Duran said he was going to KO Leonard this time.

Leonard drastically changed his gameplan, fought to his strengths movement, controlling the pace and range with his first punch, ie get the jab working, and holding at mid-close range. Some people say Leonard tried to do all this in the first fight, PURE BULLSHIT, he just didn't employ these tactics. If you can't see Leonard fought a different fight in the rematch, you're dumb, simple as that.

Duran still had cat like reactions, fast feet, fast hands but Leonard was using very fast evasive movement that didn't let Duran get set and didn't let him get in punching range, some will call it running. I was pretty impressed Leonard managed to dance for 8-9 rounds like that, if you've boxed and tried that type of movement you will know it isn't easy to do that for long. Leonard new he couldn't fight Duran at mid-range and have a hope of winning.

1 bullshit statement I've heard about this second is (the fight was close, each had won about the same amount of rounds). I thought Leonard won pretty much every round and I think thats why Duran quit, no one had outboxed him round after round like that before, he was getting embarrassed and didnt like losing

Now the case people put against Leonard was he picked a quick Duran rematch because he knew Duran was out of shape after the win. In actual fact Leonard didnt even want a rematch but his manager pushed for it.

So anyway wait a miniute is this the first time Duran blew up between fights? Or did he always blow up eating crap and getting pissed senseless and work like a demon to get the weight of?

What evidence is there that this Duran isn't every bit as good as the Duran of the first fight? Leonard effectively using different tactics and outboxed him. Thats the only real proof. Some say Duran shit him self but I haven't seen any evidence of this (ie his shorts). I'm not saying Duran wasn't quite as good but far too much is made of this, maybe he wasn't but he was still Duran and Leonard's wins is 1 of the best in history

This brings me to Leonard-Duran 3, Duran just became a MW world champion beating Barkley, Leonard really just lost to Hearns (who lost to Barkley). They both weigh 160 but fight for the SMW titles. Leonard wins a 1 sided decision putting on a bit of a masterclass and giving Duran a bit of beating at times. Duran was past his prime at 38 but so was Leonard at 33/34 (I forget) and Duran had just became MW champ and his fans love to shout about the Barkley win while ignoring Leonard's win here :-(

I'm a big Duran fan but these constant excuses have become a joke, Leonard proved himself the better Welterweight and both his wins over Duran are excellent, the second fight is a great win

I agree with you, but it's also a discussion I'm a bit fed up with, since the number of Duran apologists always makes it an endless one.

[Bokaj]

I think the rematch win by Leonard is rated. Anyway, you'll find an excuse of some kind for most losing efforts in fights. If you can find an excuse for Duran in New Orleans, you can find one for Leonard in Montreal. :good

For me it's easy: give Duran props for the first fight and Leonard for the second two. Of course, the victory in the rematch was a bit unsatisfying considering how it ended (but that's a mark on Duran, not Leonard). And in the third they were both past it (but Duran more so).

[Robbi]

I read part of 'Four Kings' last night. The stomach cramps were made up by Freddie Brown to protect Duran from humiliation back in Panama. He openly admitted this to the press. Leonard making a monkey out of him was why he quit.

[PowerPuncher]

I agree with you, but it's also a discussion I'm a bit fed up with, since the number of Duran apologists always makes it an endless one.

I actually bought into Duran was past it for the rematch before and not the same before, when you haven't seen something in a while you believe the myths.

Now I rate both wins on par with each other. Duran won when it was at mid-range setting things up with his jab and footwork. Leonard won when he continually used lateral movement setting things up with his jab and movement.

However Duran's is the macho win, Leonard's the tactical boxing win. Duran gave Leonard a beating and Leonard couldn't do the same to him, even if he fought a 5 fight series and won 4 of them he still wouldn't have given Duran the same type of beating from 4 fights as Duran gave to him in 1

[Bokaj]

I actually bought into Duran was past it for the rematch before and not the same before, when you haven't seen something in a while you believe the myths.

Now I rate both wins on par with each other. Duran won when it was at mid-range setting things up with his jab and footwork. Leonard won when he continually used lateral movement setting things up with his jab and movement.

However Duran's is the macho win, Leonard's the tactical boxing win. Duran gave Leonard a beating and Leonard couldn't do the same to him, even if he fought a 5 fight series and won 4 of them he still wouldn't have given Duran the same type of beating from 4 fights as Duran gave to him in 1

Yeah, you might be right. If I could choose a way to win, I would certainly choose the way Duran won in Montreal. Man, would I play with myself after winning like that.:D

[PowerPuncher]

I read part of 'Four Kings' last night. The stomach cramps were made up by Freddie Brown to protect Duran from humiliation back in Panama. He openly admitted this to the press. Leonard making a monkey out of him was why he quit.

Interesting fact, thanks for that

[Robbi]

Interesting fact, thanks for that

I'll be back with the quote.

[redrooster]

I think it's a very impressive win on the surface. But after reading Randy Gordon's account of what happened leading up the fight, I was no longer impressed. On top of that, when you look at it in proper context, that Duran was kind of aged for a fighter and was only a lightweight and I'm thinking what's the big deal?

Any of you know who Randy Gordon is? Probably not

[redrooster]

Now the case people put against Leonard was he picked a quick Duran rematch because he knew Duran was out of shape after the win. In actual fact Leonard didnt even want a rematch but his manager pushed for it.




You got that right. Leonard wanted no part of Duran until his mgmt told him he was 40 pounds overweight. That's when is his eyes lit up and told his managers "I want him; I can beat him!"

[DINAMITA]

I watched these 2 the other day after many years, if you haven't seen them recently or not at all I highly recommend the second fight. Duran was 71-1, just beaten Leonard giving him a nasty beating and on the basis of his career at this stage is rated as a top10 an all time P4P lists and . Duran said he was going to KO Leonard this time.

Leonard drastically changed his gameplan, fought to his strengths movement, controlling the pace and range with his first punch, ie get the jab working, and holding at mid-close range. Some people say Leonard tried to do all this in the first fight, PURE BULLSHIT, he just didn't employ these tactics. If you can't see Leonard fought a different fight in the rematch, you're dumb, simple as that.

Duran still had cat like reactions, fast feet, fast hands but Leonard was using very fast evasive movement that didn't let Duran get set and didn't let him get in punching range, some will call it running. I was pretty impressed Leonard managed to dance for 8-9 rounds like that, if you've boxed and tried that type of movement you will know it isn't easy to do that for long. Leonard new he couldn't fight Duran at mid-range and have a hope of winning.

1 bullshit statement I've heard about this second is (the fight was close, each had won about the same amount of rounds). I thought Leonard won pretty much every round and I think thats why Duran quit, no one had outboxed him round after round like that before, he was getting embarrassed and didnt like losing

Now the case people put against Leonard was he picked a quick Duran rematch because he knew Duran was out of shape after the win. In actual fact Leonard didnt even want a rematch but his manager pushed for it.

So anyway wait a miniute is this the first time Duran blew up between fights? Or did he always blow up eating crap and getting pissed senseless and work like a demon to get the weight of?

What evidence is there that this Duran isn't every bit as good as the Duran of the first fight? Leonard effectively using different tactics and outboxed him. Thats the only real proof. Some say Duran shit him self but I haven't seen any evidence of this (ie his shorts). I'm not saying Duran wasn't quite as good but far too much is made of this, maybe he wasn't but he was still Duran and Leonard's wins is 1 of the best in history

This brings me to Leonard-Duran 3, Duran just became a MW world champion beating Barkley, Leonard really just lost to Hearns (who lost to Barkley). They both weigh 160 but fight for the SMW titles. Leonard wins a 1 sided decision putting on a bit of a masterclass and giving Duran a bit of beating at times. Duran was past his prime at 38 but so was Leonard at 33/34 (I forget) and Duran had just became MW champ and his fans love to shout about the Barkley win while ignoring Leonard's win here :-(

I'm a big Duran fan but these constant excuses have become a joke, Leonard proved himself the better Welterweight and both his wins over Duran are excellent, the second fight is a great win

Nah.

[PbP Bacon]

All this is very deja vu :think

[Mr Butt]

i dont think leonards win in the second fight has been underrated ,the third fight wa a duran no show but that is not leonards fault

[la-califa]

What was the scoring on the first fight, after eight? Close to the scoring of the second? I don't believe Duran was that far behind on the cards in the second fight. Well within striking range to come back. The fight was only half over.

[TheGreatA]

What was the scoring on the first fight, after eight? Close to the scoring of the second? I don't believe Duran was that far behind on the cards in the second fight. Well within striking range to come back. The fight was only half over.

The scorecards in Leonard-Duran II:

Mike Jacobs 66-68, Jean Deswerts 66-68, James Brimmell 66-67, all for Leonard.

I don't think Duran was even doing too bad in the round he quit in. He had just landed a couple of solid punches before calling the fight off.

[PowerPuncher]

The scorecards in Leonard-Duran II:

Mike Jacobs 66-68, Jean Deswerts 66-68, James Brimmell 66-67, all for Leonard.

I don't think Duran was even doing too bad in the round he quit in. He had just landed a couple of solid punches before calling the fight off.

The scorecards look off, some rounds were close, but Leonard was controlling them and outboxing Duran round on round, I couldn't find any to give Duran I don't think (cant find the card I scored on now). Duran had just landed a few good shots when he quit, maybe it was his last roll of the dice, or a case of 'I'll go for it because I'm tooling this fight off anyway'

[Robbi]

The scorecards look off, some rounds were close, but Leonard was controlling them and outboxing Duran round on round, I couldn't find any to give Duran I don't think (cant find the card I scored on now). Duran had just landed a few good shots when he quit, maybe it was his last roll of the dice, or a case of 'I'll go for it because I'm tooling this fight off anyway'

If you never had Duran winning at least one round, you have a problem. There was one round at least, that he won clearly.

[la-califa]

The scorecards look off, some rounds were close, but Leonard was controlling them and outboxing Duran round on round, I couldn't find any to give Duran I don't think (cant find the card I scored on now). Duran had just landed a few good shots when he quit, maybe it was his last roll of the dice, or a case of 'I'll go for it because I'm tooling this fight off anyway'
You had Leonard pitching a shutout?!! PLEASE!!!

[GPater11093]

I read part of 'Four Kings' last night. The stomach cramps were made up by Freddie Brown to protect Duran from humiliation back in Panama. He openly admitted this to the press. Leonard making a monkey out of him was why he quit.

i think Manny Stewarts explanation makes the most sense its right at the end of the chapter i think.

[PowerPuncher]

If you never had Duran winning at least one round, you have a problem. There was one round at least, that he won clearly.

Which? I didnt think Duran had any clear rounds, there were about 2 that were close that he could have had

[Robbi]

Which? I didnt think Duran had any clear rounds, there were about 2 that were close that he could have had

Can't mind. 4th or the 5th. But he did take one round clearly.

[duranimal]

i dont think leonards win in the second fight has been underrated ,the third fight wa a duran no show but that is not leonards fault

I don't think thats the case here:nono

I'am proberbly one of the few people on ESB who actually went 2 the fight:smoke

Leonard was just as much responsible for this waltz of a fight IMO as Duran was, you can't blame Duran in anyway here as he really was'nt expected 2 do much except turn up regardless of being WBC/MW champ. You've got 2 try & understand the psyche of Leonard here, he was one of boxing's master manipulators all through the 80's, his word was god & all the media & sanctioning bodies bowed down 2 him as 2 please Leonard meant huge sanctioning fees so he could dictate anything he wished, it was his circus tent & he was the ring-master.

This 3rd fight "UNO MAS" came about due 2 Duran being given a $4million tax rebate by the IRS by MISTAKE!!! Duran promptly boozed/gambled/spunked it up in Duran style in record time & of course blew up 2 his usual porky pig, now Duran was'nt allowed 2 leave the country until the IRS got the $$$ back so Leonard POUNCED & geneously offered Duran his exit visa only on the condition that he weighed in at 160 & not 168 & another contract stipulation was that for ever OUNCE that Duran was over 160 he would be lose $1million per ounce.

Yer get the plot now:good

Leonard's track record i as far as minipulation of the WBC is an open book so of coarse this 3rd fight was a natural blockbuster & in Leonards words "Unfinished bizzness" & he had'nt forgotton Montreal & said that he would'nt be moving in this fight & would take it 2 Duran so we were all convinced by the master conman that we were all going 2 see a toe 2 toe war with Leonard this time acting as the bully against an older/slower Duran, WELL thats the impression he gave all of us at the last press conference, he'd got Duran were he wanted him, weight weaked & old & he was going 2 bust Duran up.

I watched Duran working out at the Tropicana & up close he looked drawn &his camp were obviously coming out with the usual shit about the champ looks great & everything is ready bollocks, i did't care anyway as i was convinced that Duran would flatten Leonard in a toe2 toe job, bring it on i thought:smoke

At the weigh-in Duran just looked awefull, starved & Leonard looked like Pop-eye, the Arum pulled his master stroke by saying hey!!! both are 160 so i suppose it's for Both Title's!!! The Duran camp went nuts, but i had no worries as my day ov vengence was drawing near & Leonard was going 2 get his fuckin head smashed in + all his fan's with him, how nieve ov me 2 think that these guys fight 4 the fans (You do when yer young)

Duran came into the ring looking bloated/puffed up & Leonard really dwarfed him so we thought this is it:good:good he we go, i could'nt believe my fuckin eyes watching Leonard just ponce about the ring & Duran trundling after him, my mate said this is a stitch up NO NO NO NEVER NEVER i screamed as i watched this passive sparring session unfold before my eyes, lets get 2 the 11 round with the celebrity crowDscreaming BULLSHIT BULLSHIT & walking out, now this stung Leonards ego & he Engaged Duran in ring centre, both through right's & Duran's tore open Leonards eye which immediatly sent Leonard into rapid reverse gear & so much 4 the huff/puff about sorting the old Duran out:bart

Gil Clancy said if Duran's punch had been 2 inches lower we'd have a new champ, Leonard conned everyone & Duran could'nt have given a flying fuck about the result as long as he got his $7million

Leonard has allways been the ego maniac's ego maniac but the public had enough ov him after this fiaso/rip off, don't blame Duran 2 much as he was just a bit part/clown in the Leonard Circus.

As we walked out of the Mirage a cabbi yelled out LAUGHING, How much you pay 4 the waltz fellers:fire we went upstairs packed our cases & left just a little bit wiser i think?

A good quate as 2 the 3rd fight was: One fighter seeks the payment ov Glory & The other the glory of Payment, that sums it up, so don't go blaming old robertO here all though he's a player, but his worlds have allways been I FIGHT FOR PAY 1ST/2ND & LAST.

There has always been the rumour regarding Leonard & Steroids:huh Tommy Hearns always hinted at it, i watched Leonard close up in traing & he looked like fuckin pop-eye, i'am with Hearns:smoke

[WhataRock]

Leonard schooling Duran in the rematch is perhaps the biggest myth in boxing history..Ray was doing a lot of moving, a lot of clowning, but not a hell of a lot of punching and certainly not much landing until right at the end.

Duran didnt come into the rematch in the same shape or frame of mind that he did in the first..I think thats as clear as crystal. But you cant hold that against Ray, he came in good shape, changed his strategy and frustrated the hell out of Roberto..but he didnt school him..no way.
It is still a very good victory for Ray and I dont really consider it tainted at all. Still one of the great wins at the weight.

The 3rd is essentially meaningless in my eyes.

[Gesta]

The fight that counts Duran won, when both were at there best.

[fists of fury]

Their third fight was horrible. Personally I wouldn't call it a good win for Leonard at all.

[redrooster]

I'am proberbly one of the few people on ESB who actually went 2 the fight:smoke

Leonard was just as much responsible for this waltz of a fight IMO as Duran was, you can't blame Duran in anyway here as he really was'nt expected 2 do much except turn up regardless of being WBC/MW champ. You've got 2 try & understand the psyche of Leonard here, he was one of boxing's master manipulators all through the 80's, his word was god & all the media & sanctioning bodies bowed down 2 him as 2 please Leonard meant huge sanctioning fees so he could dictate anything he wished, it was his circus tent & he was the ring-master.

This 3rd fight "UNO MAS" came about due 2 Duran being given a $4million tax rebate by the IRS by MISTAKE!!! Duran promptly boozed/gambled/spunked it up in Duran style in record time & of course blew up 2 his usual porky pig, now Duran was'nt allowed 2 leave the country until the IRS got the $$$ back so Leonard POUNCED & geneously offered Duran his exit visa only on the condition that he weighed in at 160 & not 168 & another contract stipulation was that for ever OUNCE that Duran was over 160 he would be lose $1million per ounce.

Yer get the plot now:good



Only from Ray Leonard. Coming from him, I believe it. Thankfully his luck ran out in his next fight in which he was exposed, beaten, and humiliated, then forced into retirement.

It would have happened a bit sooner but he couldnt bring himself to face the legit titlist Nunn.

[DINAMITA]

Leonard schooling Duran in the rematch is perhaps the biggest myth in boxing history..Ray was doing a lot of moving, a lot of clowning, but not a hell of a lot of punching and certainly not much landing until right at the end.

Duran didnt come into the rematch in the same shape or frame of mind that he did in the first..I think thats as clear as crystal. But you cant hold that against Ray, he came in good shape, changed his strategy and frustrated the hell out of Roberto..but he didnt school him..no way.
It is still a very good victory for Ray and I dont really consider it tainted at all. Still one of the great wins at the weight.

The 3rd is essentially meaningless in my eyes.

Probably the best definition of Leonard-Duran 2 that I've read yet. :good

[ChrisPontius]

The fight that counts Duran won, when both were at there best.

Oh yeah, when Duran quit it didn't "count" :lol:


Duran, pound 4 pound king of excuses.......




I agree with most of the initial post. Some say Duran was slower during the rematch, but it's not like Duran was a speed demon in their first fight. And Leonard didn't back off back then.

Leonard lost the first (close) fight in a respectable manner, Duran did one of the most blatant quit jobs in boxing history's big fights. Leonard won the third. He definitely got the better of Duran. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

[duranimal]

Only from Ray Leonard. Coming from him, I believe it. Thankfully his luck ran out in his next fight in which he was exposed, beaten, and humiliated, then forced into retirement.

It would have happened a bit sooner but he couldnt bring himself to face the legit titlist Nunn.

Correct:good According 2 Bert Sugar, Leonard's responsible for making a mockery out of the sport, Bert said he allways wanted the headlines without the risks & that he just could'nt handle anyone getting more press ink than him. It was Bert that coined the phrase describing Leonard as "The ego maniac's ego maniac"

He was finished in Vegas after the con-job he pulled in the 3rd Duran fight, the furore all around the Mirage was ear splitting after the fight, all of Leonards showbiz style fan base blew him out, all yer could here at the bars was FUCK LEONARD FUCK HIM, i came 2 see a fight & i paid 2 see that shit ect.

So what does Leonard do???? He thought he'd take his Circus 2 New York & all that crap about wanting 2 fight at the mecca of boxing bullshit, WOW did the boxing world celebrate the hammering Norris dished out, Norris descibed Leonard as a Virus, allways coming back when least wanted, but we've got Hector 2 thank for finally eradicating it in style:smoke

Leonard never ever gave anyone a re-match or an opportunity if he thought it was any way of a risk or 50/50, he had 2 have all the limelight 2 himself, it allways had 2 be his show. No way in a MILLION years would Leonard go anywhere near NUNN or any genuine champ or contender, he obviously new he'd never make it too the 6th round:smoke

[Robbi]

Oh yeah, when Duran quit it didn't "count" :lol:


Duran, pound 4 pound king of excuses.......


I agree with most of the initial post. Some say Duran was slower during the rematch, but it's not like Duran was a speed demon in their first fight. And Leonard didn't back off back then. Duran was a speed demon in their first fight, although a hair slower than Leonard. His hands were noticeably quicker than in the rematch. Without question.

Leonard lost the first (close) fight in a respectable manner, Duran did one of the most blatant quit jobs in boxing history's big fights. Leonard won the third. He definitely got the better of Duran. To say otherwise is ridiculous.Close, but clear.

[ChrisPontius]

His hands were fast, no doubt, but to be honest, i've never been very much impressed by his footspeed at 147 or up. At middleweight he was close to immobile and completely dependent on his great skills.

[Robbi]

His hands were fast, no doubt, but to be honest, i've never been very much impressed by his footspeed at 147 or up. At middleweight he was close to immobile and completely dependent on his great skills.

I'm a massive Duran fan. But must admit that he does get a serious amount of ground given on him within the classic. I like to think as myself as sensible with my views on him. I also admire Leonard as a fighter.

[ChrisPontius]

Well, in a way it's also a compliment to Duran. It still amazes me how he managed to beat Leonard despite being not only smaller, but also slower. Normally, the guy stepping up in weight at least holds the speed advantage..

[Bokaj]

Oh yeah, when Duran quit it didn't "count" :lol:


Duran, pound 4 pound king of excuses.......




I agree with most of the initial post. Some say Duran was slower during the rematch, but it's not like Duran was a speed demon in their first fight. And Leonard didn't back off back then.

Leonard lost the first (close) fight in a respectable manner, Duran did one of the most blatant quit jobs in boxing history's big fights. Leonard won the third. He definitely got the better of Duran. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

There really isn't more to it. And if it hadn't been for the idolizing of Duran's "machismo", not many would disagree.

[duranimal]

Well, in a way it's also a compliment to Duran. It still amazes me how he managed to beat Leonard despite being not only smaller, but also slower. Normally, the guy stepping up in weight at least holds the speed advantage..

Indeed it was a super human performence from Duran, everything he had ever learnt before this fight was applied that night & it had 2 be as he was up against proberbly one of the best Welterweight Champions of the modern era. It had everything, Leonard has only know let his true feelings out with regard 2 the shock of his defeat (Close as it was)

Leonard has said he never for one single second thought that Duran could beat him,I was younger than him, I was bigger than him, I was quicker than him & I was a better boxer than him, but i soon found out i was'nt smarter than him.

Whether Duran could have ever produced another night like Montreal i'am not sure, that was Duran at his apogee, I've never seen Duran in such magnifient shape at WW as he was in Montreal, but as i said earlier HE HAD 2 BE, anything less against Leonard & it was certain defeat.

I think without doubt that this fight was the making of Leonard into the complete boxer & more than preped him 4 the Hearns showdown, he now knew he could fight as well as box:smoke

The bookmakers had Duran as a 50/1 dog, so it goes 2 show what an upset it was:smoke

[Bokaj]

Indeed it was a super human performence from Duran, everything he had ever learnt before this fight was applied that night & it had 2 be as he was up against proberbly one of the best Welterweight Champions of the modern era. It had everything, Leonard has only know let his true feelings out with regard 2 the shock of his defeat (Close as it was)

Leonard has said he never for one single second thought that Duran could beat him,I was younger than him, I was bigger than him, I was quicker than him & I was a better boxer than him, but i soon found out i was'nt smarter than him.

Whether Duran could have ever produced another night like Montreal i'am not sure, that was Duran at his apogee, I've never seen Duran in such magnifient shape at WW as he was in Montreal, but as i said earlier HE HAD 2 BE, anything less against Leonard & it was certain defeat.

I think without doubt that this fight was the making of Leonard into the complete boxer & more than preped him 4 the Hearns showdown, he now knew he could fight as well as box:smoke

The bookmakers had Duran as a 50/1 dog, so it goes 2 show what an upset it was:smoke

Good post.

But Duran such big an underdog? Really? 50/1 sounds a bit much.

[bxrfan]

The bookmakers had Duran as a 50/1 dog, so it goes 2 show what an upset it was:smoke
No way man, that's just bullshit.

I mean, a 71-1 fighter 50/1 underdog? Ruled the lightweight division for six years? C'mon man. . . .:roll:

[fists of fury]

Norris descibed Leonard as a Virus, allways coming back when least wanted,



First of all...I'm not nit-picking or looking for an argument...but I'd like you to corroborate this. Norris was very respectful of Leonard and admitted Leonard was his idol.
If he had said it before the fight, then I can understand it. It just seems a bit out of character considering how he admired Leonard.

[Gesta]

Oh yeah, when Duran quit it didn't "count" :lol:


Duran, pound 4 pound king of excuses.......




I agree with most of the initial post. Some say Duran was slower during the rematch, but it's not like Duran was a speed demon in their first fight. And Leonard didn't back off back then.

Leonard lost the first (close) fight in a respectable manner, Duran did one of the most blatant quit jobs in boxing history's big fights. Leonard won the third. He definitely got the better of Duran. To say otherwise is ridiculous.

Duran was just as quick as Leonard in their first fight, the second is a different story.

IMO Leonard never showed he was a better boxer than Duran, just craftier.

[teeto]

Leonard Duran 2 is a top class win.

[redrooster]

Correct:good According 2 Bert Sugar, Leonard's responsible for making a mockery out of the sport, Bert said he allways wanted the headlines without the risks & that he just could'nt handle anyone getting more press ink than him. It was Bert that coined the phrase describing Leonard as "The ego maniac's ego maniac"

He was finished in Vegas after the con-job he pulled in the 3rd Duran fight, the furore all around the Mirage was ear splitting after the fight, all of Leonards showbiz style fan base blew him out, all yer could here at the bars was FUCK LEONARD FUCK HIM, i came 2 see a fight & i paid 2 see that shit ect.

So what does Leonard do???? He thought he'd take his Circus 2 New York & all that crap about wanting 2 fight at the mecca of boxing bullshit, WOW did the boxing world celebrate the hammering Norris dished out, Norris descibed Leonard as a Virus, allways coming back when least wanted, but we've got Hector 2 thank for finally eradicating it in style:smoke

Leonard never ever gave anyone a re-match or an opportunity if he thought it was any way of a risk or 50/50, he had 2 have all the limelight 2 himself, it allways had 2 be his show. No way in a MILLION years would Leonard go anywhere near NUNN or any genuine champ or contender, he obviously new he'd never make it too the 6th round:smoke


Yeah I never had any faith him and I was justified by the way he kept wiggling out of the kind of fights you mentioned. I just knew he wouldnt take them.

As for Uno Mas, it was just the curiosity factor but I wasnt going to give a dime of my money to that scumbag. I'd be ashmed to admit I was his fan. But besides that, I didnt bother showing for Uno mas because I knew what kind of contest it was going to turn out to be. The next morning I heard reports on it so of course, I was right.

Jay Thomas from Power 106 briefly mentioned it was a track meet, asking his partner "wasn't that a terrible fight?"

I think the fans finally came to their senses and had enough of him. I mean, smart fans that use their eyes. Others tho, like ESB classic posters can't get enough of him and INSIST how great a fighter he must have been and that if I don't place him in my top 50 they will continue to ridicule and ignore me.

They think I should be grateful that he gave us as much as he did.

But that's not my way of thinking. I lower the bar for NO ONE! Once he was back in action I thought "Good, now he can prove himself with some defenses" But when being interviewed I once again saw the same yellow streak I first noticed 5 years before when Marvin asked him politely for a fight.

It's like Leonard didnt have any courage for the kind of fighters I liked. Fighting Nunn was the logical choice for Leonard. But his fans couldnt bear the thought of him facing Mike, athough they will tell you differently or else say something like "Mike was an insignificant title holder'

So what happened was that another insignificant title holder got ahold of him. When Ray signed to meet with Norris two months earlier I knew that he finally signed his death warrant and it was a beautiful thing to watch. I had always felt that Ray could not take a sharp jolt to the chin as you could expect from someone who could be sharp who put some snap at the end of their punches. And it was exactly this that which enabled Terry to quickly put Leonard in his place.

My point is that there was good reason he stayed out as long as he had; he could not compete with the younger breed of athlete

[teeto]

just watched the fight now, number 2 that is. Haven't seen it for a LONG time, the fight was competetive more or less all the way. Duran dealt with the movement better than history has told. But what this means is that, in a competetive natured bout, Duran simply quit because he was losing.

I'm clearly a massive Duran fan.

[duranimal]

No way man, that's just bullshit.

I mean, a 71-1 fighter 50/1 underdog? Ruled the lightweight division for six years? C'mon man. . . .:roll:

No it ai'nt bullshit, yer looking at this from a modern perspective, you've got 2 realise what a phenom Leonard was being hailed as back then & some canadian bookies were offering even higher odds, back in 1980 Sugar Ray Leonard was held in such high asteem 2 the point of been viewed as the "Messiah" & viewed as the saviour of boxing.

He was allready Global in his appeal, he was the marketing dream "The REAL GOLDEN BOY" olympic gold medalist, conquerour of the best defensive fighter on the planet in Wilfredo Benitez, he was viewed as untouchable.

No one in there right mind thought Duran had a chance of outpointing Leonard, not mainstream fans anyway, Leonard was HOT & Duran was yesterday's man, 29 years old & back then that was viewed as GERIATRIC & fighting 2 div's above his immortal best weight so forget about 71-1 it meant ZERO,

No lightweight since Benny Leonard had ever succesfully navigated the jump from Lightweight 2 Welterwight 4 the title, simple as, Duran had'nt really impressed that much at the WW level excepting the Palimino fight & history was not on Duran's side, that was the carved in stone view at the time + he was up against the new young boxing superstar, the new ALI so when it comes 2 laying down yer $$$$ yer don't let yer heart rule yer head, bookies don't, it was a LOCK, a sure thing, the majority view held was that Leonard would absolutly bamboozle his way 2 a shutout or even stop Duran.

It was the dawn of a new error & a new decade, this ai'nt the 1st time bookies have got there arseholes pulled up over their heads is it:lol:

The old ones are the best: 95% ov the time it's the greedy fuckers that get robbed:good never make the mistake that the price of a fight is actually reflecting the outcome, but in this case any bookie worth his salt would have offered very generous odd's 2 suck in the mug $$$$$ considering what i've said in the above paragraph's:smoke

[duranimal]

First of all...I'm not nit-picking or looking for an argument...but I'd like you to corroborate this. Norris was very respectful of Leonard and admitted Leonard was his idol.
If he had said it before the fight, then I can understand it. It just seems a bit out of character considering how he admired Leonard.

Back then it was viewed as heresy for any young & up & coming fighter 2 ever voice any opinion of Leonard other than it being a "thank you for the inspiration you've been sort of thing" seeing what Leonard had achieved & what was still a time of (Concealed) racial antaganisom. Leonard led the way as far as bringing the lighterweights of boxing 2 the top instead of playing 2nd fiddle 2 the Heavyweights.

Leonard was'nt all that popular amoungst the new young set, they showed respect & deference 2 him obviously that being down 2 his status & what he'd acheived. But just ask Don Curry how he feels about Leonard now, after Sugar Ray acted as his best buddie/adviser/teller of the truth:huh Leave Hagler he said, take your time, let him get old then he'll be all your's, GEE THANKS RAY:lol:

Norris proberbly/obviously made the statement tongue in cheek jokingly but i think he felt disrespected by Leonard who could be more that patronising at times 2 younger up & coming fighters or 2 anybody who held a title he wanted & was in the way. Put yerself in the shoe's of NORRIS, he was the champ & Leonard absolutly dismissed him, it's the Sugar Ray Leonard show folks.

Camacho never forgave him for his belittling commentry on one of his fights, hence his great pleasure at knocking him out:smoke

[duranimal]

Yeah I never had any faith him and I was justified by the way he kept wiggling out of the kind of fights you mentioned. I just knew he wouldnt take them.

As for Uno Mas, it was just the curiosity factor but I wasnt going to give a dime of my money to that scumbag. I'd be ashmed to admit I was his fan. But besides that, I didnt bother showing for Uno mas because I knew what kind of contest it was going to turn out to be. The next morning I heard reports on it so of course, I was right.

Jay Thomas from Power 106 briefly mentioned it was a track meet, asking his partner "wasn't that a terrible fight?"

I think the fans finally came to their senses and had enough of him. I mean, smart fans that use their eyes. Others tho, like ESB classic posters can't get enough of him and INSIST how great a fighter he must have been and that if I don't place him in my top 50 they will continue to ridicule and ignore me.

They think I should be grateful that he gave us as much as he did.

But that's not my way of thinking. I lower the bar for NO ONE! Once he was back in action I thought "Good, now he can prove himself with some defenses" But when being interviewed I once again saw the same yellow streak I first noticed 5 years before when Marvin asked him politely for a fight.

It's like Leonard didnt have any courage for the kind of fighters I liked. Fighting Nunn was the logical choice for Leonard. But his fans couldnt bear the thought of him facing Mike, athough they will tell you differently or else say something like "Mike was an insignificant title holder'

So what happened was that another insignificant title holder got ahold of him. When Ray signed to meet with Norris two months earlier I knew that he finally signed his death warrant and it was a beautiful thing to watch. I had always felt that Ray could not take a sharp jolt to the chin as you could expect from someone who could be sharp who put some snap at the end of their punches. And it was exactly this that which enabled Terry to quickly put Leonard in his place.

My point is that there was good reason he stayed out as long as he had; he could not compete with the younger breed of athlete

Top Posts mate:good love reading-em, it's nice 2 know that there's a few more on ESB that have experience of the under-belly of the sport so 2 speak. I'am new here but i've allready come 2 the conclusion that the majority of members here have just read back issue's of the ring/KO/Box ILLustrated they've bought off of ebay for all the boxing wisdom all excepting the youngsters who are just starting out who are entitled 2 question.

I really started 2 dislike Leonard when he jigged out of fighting Hagler in 82, he knew he was fuckin DOOMED then we get the Kevin Howard fiasco, jeezus it really made me sick, then we get the Leonard statement that if Duran beats Hagler HE'S DEF COMING BACK!!!! Then Hearns gets wiped out & SILENCE, Leonard is a parasite pure & simple but you know it & i know it, but most of the ESB crowd here proberbly were not around the 80's scene then so obviously have gone by box-rec & fightmag ink 4 there expert opinions & don't they just hate being exposed:lol:

As you know back then there was no hiding place, just WBC/WBA no PPv just closed circuit & definetly none of the boxing tourists that you get at any MGM grand fights nowdays it was fightfans only that hit Vegas/Caesars for major fights, it's something the young kids should study when they watch any fight that was fought out in the pavilion, totally different crew & as far as i'am concerned in my experience is that the big majority of Leonards fan base are exactly that, boxing tourist's:yep

I still go 2 vegas 4 the MGM fights but it ai'nt no where near the same, there's just usually Bert sat in the zuri lounge getting wasted on my tab:lol: a small fee 2 pay indeed & if you mention Leonard you just what for the explosion:lol: ASSHOLE that fuckin piece of shit, by that time his cuban is shredded.

Last point, as we know Leonard never dominated any of his fights against Benitez/Hearns/Duran, his defence was only average & he was quite easy 2 hit, Kaluli gave him a real test, so it's allways been drama, if Duran had seen out the new orleans fight Leonard would never have got away with what he was able in the future, the road 2 Hagler beckoned & it was a one way street but Leonard jumped down a manhole & hid:smoke

[zarman]

i think jones win against toney is overrated! sorry your thread bored me so i imagined my own

[Arriba]

1 was a great win for Duran, 2 was a great win for Leonard

3 is worthless and should be killed with fire.

[JohnThomas1]

The bookmakers had Duran as a 50/1 dog, so it goes 2 show what an upset it was:smoke

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

[PowerPuncher]

1 was a great win for Duran, 2 was a great win for Leonard

3 is worthless and should be killed with fire.

It was the same Duran who beat Barkley, should that win be not seen as big deal too then? IMO you can't have it both ways

[PowerPuncher]

i dont think leonards win in the second fight has been underrated ,the third fight wa a duran no show but that is not leonards fault

I don't think thats the case here:nono

I'am proberbly one of the few people on ESB who actually went 2 the fight:smoke

Leonard was just as much responsible for this waltz of a fight IMO as Duran was, you can't blame Duran in anyway here as he really was'nt expected 2 do much except turn up regardless of being WBC/MW champ. You've got 2 try & understand the psyche of Leonard here, he was one of boxing's master manipulators all through the 80's, his word was god & all the media & sanctioning bodies bowed down 2 him as 2 please Leonard meant huge sanctioning fees so he could dictate anything he wished, it was his circus tent & he was the ring-master.

This 3rd fight "UNO MAS" came about due 2 Duran being given a $4million tax rebate by the IRS by MISTAKE!!! Duran promptly boozed/gambled/spunked it up in Duran style in record time & of course blew up 2 his usual porky pig, now Duran was'nt allowed 2 leave the country until the IRS got the $$$ back so Leonard POUNCED & geneously offered Duran his exit visa only on the condition that he weighed in at 160 & not 168 & another contract stipulation was that for ever OUNCE that Duran was over 160 he would be lose $1million per ounce.

Yer get the plot now:good

Leonard's track record i as far as minipulation of the WBC is an open book so of coarse this 3rd fight was a natural blockbuster & in Leonards words "Unfinished bizzness" & he had'nt forgotton Montreal & said that he would'nt be moving in this fight & would take it 2 Duran so we were all convinced by the master conman that we were all going 2 see a toe 2 toe war with Leonard this time acting as the bully against an older/slower Duran, WELL thats the impression he gave all of us at the last press conference, he'd got Duran were he wanted him, weight weaked & old & he was going 2 bust Duran up.

I watched Duran working out at the Tropicana & up close he looked drawn &his camp were obviously coming out with the usual shit about the champ looks great & everything is ready bollocks, i did't care anyway as i was convinced that Duran would flatten Leonard in a toe2 toe job, bring it on i thought:smoke

At the weigh-in Duran just looked awefull, starved & Leonard looked like Pop-eye, the Arum pulled his master stroke by saying hey!!! both are 160 so i suppose it's for Both Title's!!! The Duran camp went nuts, but i had no worries as my day ov vengence was drawing near & Leonard was going 2 get his fuckin head smashed in + all his fan's with him, how nieve ov me 2 think that these guys fight 4 the fans (You do when yer young)

Duran came into the ring looking bloated/puffed up & Leonard really dwarfed him so we thought this is it:good:good he we go, i could'nt believe my fuckin eyes watching Leonard just ponce about the ring & Duran trundling after him, my mate said this is a stitch up NO NO NO NEVER NEVER i screamed as i watched this passive sparring session unfold before my eyes, lets get 2 the 11 round with the celebrity crowDscreaming BULLSHIT BULLSHIT & walking out, now this stung Leonards ego & he Engaged Duran in ring centre, both through right's & Duran's tore open Leonards eye which immediatly sent Leonard into rapid reverse gear & so much 4 the huff/puff about sorting the old Duran out:bart

Gil Clancy said if Duran's punch had been 2 inches lower we'd have a new champ, Leonard conned everyone & Duran could'nt have given a flying fuck about the result as long as he got his $7million

Leonard has allways been the ego maniac's ego maniac but the public had enough ov him after this fiaso/rip off, don't blame Duran 2 much as he was just a bit part/clown in the Leonard Circus.

As we walked out of the Mirage a cabbi yelled out LAUGHING, How much you pay 4 the waltz fellers:fire we went upstairs packed our cases & left just a little bit wiser i think?

A good quate as 2 the 3rd fight was: One fighter seeks the payment ov Glory & The other the glory of Payment, that sums it up, so don't go blaming old robertO here all though he's a player, but his worlds have allways been I FIGHT FOR PAY 1ST/2ND & LAST.

There has always been the rumour regarding Leonard & Steroids:huh Tommy Hearns always hinted at it, i watched Leonard close up in traing & he looked like fuckin pop-eye, i'am with Hearns:smoke

So Leonard-Duran is made at a 160 catch weight, the exact same weight Duran had put his Barkley performance only a few months earlier and Leonard is getting the advantage. If the fight was at 168 people would claim it to be to Leonard's advantage too

Why is it such hard work for Duran to get in shape for speedy movers like Leonard/Benitez/Laing but it isn't a problem geting in shape for toe-toe brawlers like Barkley, Cuevas, Moore (not as much a brawler but easier to hit)

Oh and for good measure you make a completely unfounded accusation of steroid use based on the fact that Leonard was muscular :-(

[fists of fury]

Oh and for good measure you make a completely unfounded accusation of steroid use based on the fact that Leonard was muscular :-(

Yeah, but us here at Classic are just a bunch of pimply teens who buy magazines on Ebay...we're, like, cluless fella. :good

[duranimal]

[quote=duranimal;4525138]

So Leonard-Duran is made at a 160 catch weight, the exact same weight Duran had put his Barkley performance only a few months earlier and Leonard is getting the advantage. If the fight was at 168 people would claim it to be to Leonard's advantage too

Why is it such hard work for Duran to get in shape for speedy movers like Leonard/Benitez/Laing but it isn't a problem geting in shape for toe-toe brawlers like Barkley, Cuevas, Moore (not as much a brawler but easier to hit)

Oh and for good measure you make a completely unfounded accusation of steroid use based on the fact that Leonard was muscular :-(

OK then, answer this:smoke Why did Leonard only give Duran the fight on condition he came in at 160 & massive punitive $$$$ penalties by the OUNCE:huh

Leonard never never ever was going 2 take any sort of risk with Duran, Montreal was allways on his mind regardless that Duran was 38 years old 4 fuck sake, thats how paranoid Leonard was about Duran.

Obviously you've never seen the pics of roberto when the fight was signed, he was a BLIMP.

Oh and for good measure regarding Leonard & the steroid accusation, i'am quoting Tommy Hearns, so why not take yer written shit 2 Tommy also:smoke

[Bokaj]

OK then, answer this:smoke Why did Leonard only give Duran the fight on condition he came in at 160 & massive punitive $$$$ penalties by the OUNCE:huh

Leonard never never ever was going 2 take any sort of risk with Duran, Montreal was allways on his mind regardless that Duran was 38 years old 4 fuck sake, thats how paranoid Leonard was about Duran.

Obviously you've never seen the pics of roberto when the fight was signed, he was a BLIMP.

Oh and for good measure regarding Leonard & the steroid accusation, i'am quoting Tommy Hearns, so why not take yer written shit 2 Tommy also:smoke

Out of curiosity, did Duran ever lose just because he wasn't good enough? Because the other guy was better? Or do you have such a well researched supply of excuses for all of his losses?

[redrooster]

[quote=duranimal;4525138]

So Leonard-Duran is made at a 160 catch weight, the exact same weight Duran had put his Barkley performance only a few months earlier and Leonard is getting the advantage. If the fight was at 168 people would claim it to be to Leonard's advantage too

Why is it such hard work for Duran to get in shape for speedy movers like Leonard/Benitez/Laing but it isn't a problem geting in shape for toe-toe brawlers like Barkley, Cuevas, Moore (not as much a brawler but easier to hit)

Oh and for good measure you make a completely unfounded accusation of steroid use based on the fact that Leonard was muscular :-(

Here's a better question. Why is it that Leonard is always dictates a weight in the first place? He's been doing it since 81 on aire when discussing Hagler. And the big one for me was the lalonde fight and again with Hearns in 89.

He can't be so great if he keeps resorting to these stunts just to weaken the other man

[duranimal]

Out of curiosity, did Duran ever lose just because he wasn't good enough? Because the other guy was better? Or do you have such a well researched supply of excuses for all of his losses?

That part of your post was constructed by a Bitch:smoke

Of course he's beaten by better fighters in the higher weight classes where he had no right being in the 1st place, he's a prize fighter he fights 4 PAY, you MUG:smoke

It's about time you Leonard girls accepted the fact that yer boy is a yellow fraud:yep

[PowerPuncher]

[quote=PowerPuncher;4536255]

OK then, answer this:smoke Why did Leonard only give Duran the fight on condition he came in at 160 & massive punitive $$$$ penalties by the OUNCE:huh

Leonard never never ever was going 2 take any sort of risk with Duran, Montreal was allways on his mind regardless that Duran was 38 years old 4 fuck sake, thats how paranoid Leonard was about Duran.

Obviously you've never seen the pics of roberto when the fight was signed, he was a BLIMP.

Oh and for good measure regarding Leonard & the steroid accusation, i'am quoting Tommy Hearns, so why not take yer written shit 2 Tommy also:smoke

Who knows, do you actually have a source on that 1? Didnt you say Leonard wanted to fight for the 160lb title too?

Neither fighter should have been above 160 anyway, Duran would be even more bloated at 168. Duran always blew up in weight though, he's similar to Ricky Hatton in that regard, any proof he wasn't that size before Barkley too?

Hearns may have said Leonard was on roids but given they never trained in the same camps he'd have no idea.

[PowerPuncher]

[quote=PowerPuncher;4536255]

Here's a better question. Why is it that Leonard is always dictates a weight in the first place? He's been doing it since 81 on aire when discussing Hagler. And the big one for me was the lalonde fight and again with Hearns in 89.

He can't be so great if he keeps resorting to these stunts just to weaken the other man

Leonard is a smaller man, catchweights are normal in boxing when a big man takes on a smaller 1, look at Pacquaio for instance

[Bokaj]

Out of curiosity, did Duran ever lose just because he wasn't good enough? Because the other guy was better? Or do you have such a well researched supply of excuses for all of his losses?[/quote]

That part of your post was constructed by a Bitch:smoke

Of course he's beaten by better fighters in the higher weight classes where he had no right being in the 1st place, he's a prize fighter he fights 4 PAY, you MUG:smoke

It's about time you Leonard girls accepted the fact that yer boy is a yellow fraud:yep

Please tell you're not over 20. Because that would make you clinically retarded. If you're in your teens you might at least be a late bloomer. Fingers crossed...

So, just to get it straight, you accept that Duran had no excuses for his losses to Benitez, Laing and Hearns? That he just met opponents that were too good for him?

[PbP Bacon]

Leonard-Duran I and II are fights

Leonard-Duran III should have been smoothered in its crib :twisted:

[arther1045]

It was the same Duran who beat Barkley, should that win be not seen as big deal too then? IMO you can't have it both ways


The Barkley fight was the only time Duran had looked decent in years. You are ignoring all the fights Duran had for the last 6 years when he looked awful. The truth is Duran fought one good fight against barkley but Duran as a rule at that point in his career was not very good anymore, and had Leonard by 5 years and a ton of fights.. The Leonard win means nothing. he had better win with all those advantages.

[arther1045]

Please tell you're not over 20. Because that would make you clinically retarded. If you're in your teens you might at least be a late bloomer. Fingers crossed...

So, just to get it straight, you accept that Duran had no excuses for his losses to Benitez, Laing and Hearns? That he just met opponents that were too good for him?


Benitez at 154 and at his very best was a better fighter then Duran at 154 when Duran was 3 weight classes and 5 years past his best.

Hearns at 154 at his very best was better at 154 then Duran who was about 7 years past his best and 3 weight classes past his best weight.


Laing fought a very out of shape Duran who would have lost to a ton of fighters in that shape. I saw the fight at the time and it was very obvious that Duran had nothing. Duran's fault, but Laing was not a better fighter.

[duranimal]

Please tell you're not over 20. Because that would make you clinically retarded. If you're in your teens you might at least be a late bloomer. Fingers crossed...

So, just to get it straight, you accept that Duran had no excuses for his losses to Benitez, Laing and Hearns? That he just met opponents that were too good for him?

Go away you nit picking hair splitting boring little man:smoke

[Bokaj]

Benitez at 154 and at his very best was a better fighter then Duran at 154 when Duran was 3 weight classes and 5 years past his best.

Hearns at 154 at his very best was better at 154 then Duran who was about 7 years past his best and 3 weight classes past his best weight.


Laing fought a very out of shape Duran who would have lost to a ton of fighters in that shape. I saw the fight at the time and it was very obvious that Duran had nothing. Duran's fault, but Laing was not a better fighter.

Excuses, sweet excuses. Now I just have to know how he managed to lose to DeJesus. He hadn't trained, right? He took him too lightly, didn't he? Or was DeJesus up to the same Machiavellian chinenegans as Leonard?

[Bokaj]

Go away you nit picking hair splitting boring little man:smoke

Yeah, that's me. Just having the gall to actually take results of fights at their face value. When talking about Duran of all people.:D

But still, I would like to know. Are you a semi-retarded young adult or a punk kid? The people on this board have a right to know. How many days since you whacked one out looking at your Duran posters? Be honest, young man.:nono

[duranimal]

Yeah, that's me. Just having the gall to actually take results of fights at their face value. When talking about Duran of all people.:D

But still, I would like to know. Are you a semi-retarded young adult or a punk kid? The people on this board have a right to know. How many days since you whacked one out looking at your Duran posters? Be honest, young man.:nono

You obviously have a huge issue with Duran & all things Duran:huh All i can say is that it may be best if you have a word with your mother as she may have some shocking news 4 you:smoke

[TheGreatA]

Excuses, sweet excuses. Now I just have to know how he managed to lose to DeJesus. He hadn't trained, right? He took him too lightly, didn't he? Or was DeJesus up to the same Machiavellian chinenegans as Leonard?

I'm not sure if those are qualified as excuses. It's not like he said that Duran partied for 6 months straight and had to lose 100 lbs in two weeks.

Duran was simply not at his best above 147 lbs. Benitez and Hearns were better than Duran at 154. Laing wasn't but Duran was obviously not in the best shape of his career.

[Bokaj]

You obviously have a huge issue with Duran & all things Duran:huh

Coming from someone who calls himself "Duranimal".:lol: Priceless.

[Bokaj]

I'm not sure if those are qualified as excuses. It's not like he said that Duran partied for 6 months straight and had to lose 100 lbs in two weeks.

Duran was simply not at his best above 147 lbs. Benitez and Hearns were better than Duran at 154. Laing wasn't but Duran was obviously not in the best shape of his career.

He also said that Duran was "5 years past his best" against Benitez (at 31, two years after Montreal) and "7 years past his best" against Hearns. This smells to me like trying to exagerrate how past his prime Duran was. Sure, he was past his very best by then, but this tendency to downplay his losses are just so common. Gets tiring. So does this thread, so I'm out of here.

[duranimal]

[quote=duranimal;4536608]

Who knows, do you actually have a source on that 1? Didnt you say Leonard wanted to fight for the 160lb title too?

Neither fighter should have been above 160 anyway, Duran would be even more bloated at 168. Duran always blew up in weight though, he's similar to Ricky Hatton in that regard, any proof he wasn't that size before Barkley too?

Hearns may have said Leonard was on roids but given they never trained in the same camps he'd have no idea.

After raking through my attic i've found all the old newspaper cuttings from this shit 3rd fight & i've got 2 apologise for an error on one of my postes as 2 the weight's contracted & what both fighters came in at.

The contracted weight 4 this fight was 162 & Leonard weighed in at 160 & Duran at 158, thats 2lb's inside the middleweight limit, now this means Leonards title was not at risk???? & Duran's was you would think!!! Hence Bob Arum jumped up straight after the weights had been announced & said " Hey i suppose it's now 4 both title's" This fight was 4 all intence & purpose 4 Leonards WBC Super middleweight crown so what the fuck was Duran doing by weighing in at 158???? Leonards title surely would'nt be at risk??

I was lucky enough 2 be allowed access 2 the journo room in the jamaica suite at the Mirage & all the yap was going on was about Durans possible forefiture of his purse if he went over 160, please don't ask me again who/what/why/where, i don't fuckin know why, but that has been one of my grips with Leonard who was a master manipulator behind the scenes.

I've never seen this fight on tape in 19 years & have no wish 2, absolute crap con job by the pair of them, Leonard had 2 have given Duran a sweetner as the photo's ov them afterwards all best pals & buddies for life & duran saying 2 the press "Lots of beer for me & lots of Champagne for Ray"

Jeezus, the press coverage was justifably vicious towards the pair of them, but it begas the question why did Duran starve himself down too 158:huh

[duranimal]

Coming from someone who calls himself "Duranimal".:lol: Priceless.

Very Good:lol::lol::good

[Flea Man]

Duranimal is a truly shocking and biased poster.

[Robbi]

He also said that Duran was "5 years past his best" against Benitez (at 31, two years after Montreal) and "7 years past his best" against Hearns. This smells to me like trying to exagerrate how past his prime Duran was. Sure, he was past his very best by then, but this tendency to downplay his losses are just so common. Gets tiring. So does this thread, so I'm out of here.

:lol:

[bxrfan]

No it ai'nt bullshit, yer looking at this from a modern perspective, you've got 2 realise what a phenom Leonard was being hailed as back then & some canadian bookies were offering even higher odds, back in 1980 Sugar Ray Leonard was held in such high asteem 2 the point of been viewed as the "Messiah" & viewed as the saviour of boxing.

He was allready Global in his appeal, he was the marketing dream "The REAL GOLDEN BOY" olympic gold medalist, conquerour of the best defensive fighter on the planet in Wilfredo Benitez, he was viewed as untouchable.

No one in there right mind thought Duran had a chance of outpointing Leonard, not mainstream fans anyway, Leonard was HOT & Duran was yesterday's man, 29 years old & back then that was viewed as GERIATRIC & fighting 2 div's above his immortal best weight so forget about 71-1 it meant ZERO,

No lightweight since Benny Leonard had ever succesfully navigated the jump from Lightweight 2 Welterwight 4 the title, simple as, Duran had'nt really impressed that much at the WW level excepting the Palimino fight & history was not on Duran's side, that was the carved in stone view at the time + he was up against the new young boxing superstar, the new ALI so when it comes 2 laying down yer $$$$ yer don't let yer heart rule yer head, bookies don't, it was a LOCK, a sure thing, the majority view held was that Leonard would absolutly bamboozle his way 2 a shutout or even stop Duran.

It was the dawn of a new error & a new decade, this ai'nt the 1st time bookies have got there arseholes pulled up over their heads is it:lol:

The old ones are the best: 95% ov the time it's the greedy fuckers that get robbed:good never make the mistake that the price of a fight is actually reflecting the outcome, but in this case any bookie worth his salt would have offered very generous odd's 2 suck in the mug $$$$$ considering what i've said in the above paragraph's:smoke
Nah man, it's bullshit. You don't make the pound for pound #1 fighter in the world a 50/1 underdog. And he was yesterday's man? Please, I guess Pacquiao at 30 is yesterday's news too. . .

[arther1045]

Excuses, sweet excuses. Now I just have to know how he managed to lose to DeJesus. He hadn't trained, right? He took him too lightly, didn't he? Or was DeJesus up to the same Machiavellian chinenegans as Leonard?

Bascially everything I stated is fact.

So in your world if someone says that Leon Spinks was as good a fighter as Ali, when someone respndes that Spinks was as good as Ali in 1978 because Spinks was at his best while Ali was maybe 10 years past his best then its just as excuse. Are you kidding me here.

I guess Terry Norris was a better fighter then Leonard right.
There are some Duran excuses used on this board that i don't agree with, like he was grossly out of shape vs Benitez and Hearns. But anti Duran people are the other way. If you listen to them you would think that Duran started boxing in 1980 at 147.

[arther1045]

He also said that Duran was "5 years past his best" against Benitez (at 31, two years after Montreal) and "7 years past his best" against Hearns. This smells to me like trying to exagerrate how past his prime Duran was. Sure, he was past his very best by then, but this tendency to downplay his losses are just so common. Gets tiring. So does this thread, so I'm out of here.


So he uses the one fight Montreal which Duran fought great but ignores all other fights from his almost losing in 1979 to Ganzalas to looking awful in his 2 fights at 154 before Bentiez. Duran was a much slower fighter past past 147 then he was at his peak at lightweight.

I think almost all would agree Duran's absulute best was in about 1977 at lightweight. So I will stand by my statements.

[Robbi]

So he uses the one fight Montreal which Duran fought great but ignores all other fights from his almost losing in 1979 to Ganzalas to looking awful in his 2 fights at 154 before Bentiez. Duran was a much slower fighter past past 147 then he was at his peak at lightweight.

I think almost all would agree Duran's absulute best was in about 1977 at lightweight. So I will stand by my statements.

Duran was still at his best for Palamino in 1979, and Duran in 1980. No question about it. While his prime weight was lightweight, he still put in performances at welterweight than were 'prime' quality.

[fists of fury]

edit

[fists of fury]

Here's a better question. Why is it that Leonard is always dictates a weight in the first place? He's been doing it since 81 on aire when discussing Hagler. And the big one for me was the lalonde fight and again with Hearns in 89.

He can't be so great if he keeps resorting to these stunts just to weaken the other man

It's BS, plain and simple. Leonard had no right to dictate the weights of his opponents. I'm in full agreement with you on this one.

[arther1045]

Duran was still at his best for Palamino in 1979, and Duran in 1980. No question about it. While his prime weight was lightweight, he still put in performances at welterweight than were 'prime' quality.


What was Duran's KO rate at welter? Right there will tell you he was never at his best at 147.

[duranimal]

Nah man, it's bullshit. You don't make the pound for pound #1 fighter in the world a 50/1 underdog. And he was yesterday's man? Please, I guess Pacquiao at 30 is yesterday's news too. . .

Thats absolute nonsence to make comparisons too 30 years ago.

I'am not a bookie mate, The odd's are dictated by the $$$$$$ taken in, they've got 2 offset this or lay it off by sucking in counter bets, obviously you're not a gambler & i hope someone on here who is will afford you a better insite 2 the bookmakers progress.

Like you i'am of the mind sportingly that 50/1+ is absolutly loonie, but as i said earlier the odds are not a fair reflection of fistic reality/bar room opinion, but they would be too a bookmaker thats just had $millions of $$$$ piled onto Leonard.

You just cannot make the same comparison of a fighters of today as too the fighters of 30 years ago in relation 2 lifestlye/training tecnique's/diet supplements ect, fighters today can now carry on well into their 30's with a little help along the way. How many top class fighters/lighterweights can you name who fought on like Duran did past 29 from the 60/70's at top level, not that many, most were all burned out.

I hope some one has one of the old boxing media mags hanging around which shows how the scribes saw the fight panning out. Over here in the UK none had Duran winning, everyone went for SRL in a close fight but all still said Leonard by UD, the bookies don't often get it wrong but when they DO:scaredas:

[TheGreatA]

Duran vs Leonard was not a 50/1 fight. Maybe a certain outcome (such as a 14th round knockout) could have been something like 50 to 1 odds but not the fight.

May not have even been 2 to 1, it was two great champions in there.

I would like to know the real odds if anyone knows them.

[TheGreatA]

The odds were supposedly 9/5 in favour of Leonard.

[duranimal]

Bascially everything I stated is fact.

So in your world if someone says that Leon Spinks was as good a fighter as Ali, when someone respndes that Spinks was as good as Ali in 1978 because Spinks was at his best while Ali was maybe 10 years past his best then its just as excuse. Are you kidding me here.

I guess Terry Norris was a better fighter then Leonard right.
There are some Duran excuses used on this board that i don't agree with, like he was grossly out of shape vs Benitez and Hearns. But anti Duran people are the other way. If you listen to them you would think that Duran started boxing in 1980 at 147.

Yeh & proberbly born 10 yrs after & you've got 2 take into account that most of the bleating anti-duran bitches on here were no doubt victims of the Duran loving school bully who took their lunch money & forced them 2 do his homework, it all falls into place:yep this anti- Duran thing is just the wailing howling bleats of the massed ranks of sheep waiting outside the slaughter house:smoke

Not one of them has a individuality they can call their own & all crave responce's from their posts here on ESB/Safe haven & it's just a case of mutual dick stroking with these weeds:lol:

[duranimal]

Duran vs Leonard was not a 50/1 fight. Maybe a certain outcome (such as a 14th round knockout) could have been something like 50 to 1 odds but not the fight.

May not have even been 2 to 1, it was two great champions in there.

I would like to know the real odds if anyone knows them.

You're know doubt right buddy:smoke

[duranimal]

Duranimal is a truly shocking and biased poster.

I am the sword of TRUTH the whole TRUTH & nothing but the TRUTH so help me DURAN:smoke

[Robbi]

What was Duran's KO rate at welter? Right there will tell you he was never at his best at 147.

Just because his KO rate at welterweight wasn't as good, it doesn't matter a jot. His overall effectiveness as a fighter was the same or better against Palamino and Leonard.

[bxrfan]

You're know doubt right buddy:smoke
That's what I was trying to say. . . . .:huh

[duranimal]

That's what I was trying to say. . . . .:huh

My apologies mate, where i'am not a gambler i was was gobbin off what i'd heard, the other feller who posted explained it better about the odds being proberbly for a picked round, i'am a bit too over enthusiastic sometimes, i'll pay more attention in future rather than leapin in, HONEST:lol:

[Flea Man]

Just because his KO rate at welterweight wasn't as good, it doesn't matter a jot. His overall effectiveness as a fighter was the same or better against Palamino and Leonard.

agree. dropped palomino, nullified his assault (including one of the alltime great left hook body punchers)and bullied the bigger man around. for 10 rnds one of the best duran performances imo.

[arther1045]

Just because his KO rate at welterweight wasn't as good, it doesn't matter a jot. His overall effectiveness as a fighter was the same or better against Palamino and Leonard.

Sure his overrall ko rate matters. Even though he fought well at 147 at times he still wasn't as good as he was at lightweight. There is no doubt about that.

[WhataRock]

The Palomino and Leonard fights are just about as best as I have seen Duran. He was as good in those fights as any of his lightweight-jnr welter fights.

Well rounded..Just about complete technically, but still possessing speed, explosive power and brute strength.

Not stopping Palomino and Leonard is really no indication of whether he had clearly slipped moving up..fact is he won both of those fights comfortably and many didnt expect him to.
The other two guys who went the rounds with him were Speedy Gonzalez and Jimmy Heair..Gonzalez was a decent contender, very rangy and fleet footed who fought most of the fight on the backfoot, a lot of time just trying to make it out of shaky moments.
Heair had a very solid chin and was classic survivalist..He took a horrible beating off a Duran who looked like he just came for a tuneup.
Roberto dominated both of those fights, really doesnt matter if they went the distance or not.

Duran was still all sorts of awesome at welterweight.

[Arriba]

It was the same Duran who beat Barkley, should that win be not seen as big deal too then? IMO you can't have it both ways

Both guys were past their prime and to even consider that fight as anything other than an abomination before man and god sullies the first two fights.