What was the cause of Pernell Whitaker's knockdowns?

[BENNY BLANCO]

Do you think it was due to him being off balance?

Or that he was always the smaller man in every significant fight he has been in?

Or that his chin was shaky but his incredible defense prevented him from ever being knocked out?

[sweet_scientist]

Most were due to being caught off balance I'd say. The only knockdown when he was really hurt imo was against Roger Mayweather.

Other knockdowns, against Poli Diaz, Buddy McGirt, Diosbelys Hurtado, Julio Cesar Vasquez, Felix Trinidad were due to being caught off balance. I don't think having a bad chin had anything to do with it. Being so elaborate with his defense, ducking down, weaving left and right, it's easy to lose balance if tagged, and that's what pretty much happened in those instances.

Mind you, I don't think he had a granite chin or anything, but I wouldn't put those knockdowns due to chin issues.

[BENNY BLANCO]

Most were due to being caught off balance I'd say. The only knockdown when he was really hurt imo was against Roger Mayweather.

Other knockdowns, against Poli Diaz, Buddy McGirt, Diosbelys Hurtado, Julio Cesar Vasquez, Felix Trinidad were due to being caught off balance. I don't think having a bad chin had anything to do with it. Being so elaborate with his defense, ducking down, weaving left and right, it's easy to lose balance if tagged, and that's what pretty much happened in those instances.

Mind you, I don't think he had a granite chin or anything, but I wouldn't put those knockdowns due to chin issues. I was leaning towards "off balance" issues aswell because the punches that usually knocked him down were never hard punches like the two knockdowns he suffered against Disobelys Hurtado, though that may not be the best example cause he was pass prime by that time.

[My2Sense]

Was Whitaker ever really hurt by a KD prior to Tito? Most of the KDs I can think of him were flashes (albeit legit) and were almost immediately recovered from.

[BENNY BLANCO]

Was Whitaker ever really hurt by a KD prior to Tito? Most of the KDs I can think of him were flashes (albeit legit) and were almost immediately recovered from. I actually don't believe he was hurt from the knockdown he got from Tito which was in the 2nd round I believe, he was hurt by the knockdown from Roger Mayweather but Roger had expended so much energy when he knocked Pernell down that he could'nt really capatilize on Pernell too much.

[Gesta]

Cannot remeber seeing Sweet Pea hurt, even vs Tito.

His knockdowns were from being off balance, but I might need to watch the Mayweather fight again.

[ricardinho]

drugs he like cocaine..its a shame

he would have beat PBF

[teeto]

Most were due to being caught off balance I'd say. The only knockdown when he was really hurt imo was against Roger Mayweather.

Other knockdowns, against Poli Diaz, Buddy McGirt, Diosbelys Hurtado, Julio Cesar Vasquez, Felix Trinidad were due to being caught off balance. I don't think having a bad chin had anything to do with it. Being so elaborate with his defense, ducking down, weaving left and right, it's easy to lose balance if tagged, and that's what pretty much happened in those instances.

Mind you, I don't think he had a granite chin or anything, but I wouldn't put those knockdowns due to chin issues.
Spot on for me.

[My dinner with Conteh]

He was definitely hurt vs Mayweather, following that (and another earlier knockdown a few fights before if I remember correctly) most people in the game felt he had a soft chin.

[McGrain]

Most were due to being caught off balance I'd say. The only knockdown when he was really hurt imo was against Roger Mayweather.

Other knockdowns, against Poli Diaz, Buddy McGirt, Diosbelys Hurtado, Julio Cesar Vasquez, Felix Trinidad were due to being caught off balance. I don't think having a bad chin had anything to do with it. Being so elaborate with his defense, ducking down, weaving left and right, it's easy to lose balance if tagged, and that's what pretty much happened in those instances.

Mind you, I don't think he had a granite chin or anything, but I wouldn't put those knockdowns due to chin issues.


Between yourself and Sweet Pea we have two guys that write as well about Whitaker as anyone anywhere, I think. We're really spoiled. Spot on.

[TheGreatA]

Whitaker was also knocked down by Rafael Williams early in his career.

Mayweather had a powerful right hand and caught Whitaker with it.

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3:35

I don't think this was counted as a knockdown.

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1:10

[DINAMITA]

Most were due to being caught off balance I'd say. The only knockdown when he was really hurt imo was against Roger Mayweather.

Other knockdowns, against Poli Diaz, Buddy McGirt, Diosbelys Hurtado, Julio Cesar Vasquez, Felix Trinidad were due to being caught off balance. I don't think having a bad chin had anything to do with it. Being so elaborate with his defense, ducking down, weaving left and right, it's easy to lose balance if tagged, and that's what pretty much happened in those instances.

Mind you, I don't think he had a granite chin or anything, but I wouldn't put those knockdowns due to chin issues.

How do you rate Whitaker's chin?

[TheGreatA]

How do you rate Whitaker's chin?

He did go the distance against Tito Trinidad with a broken jaw. He wasn't exactly in his prime either.

[itrymariti]

Most were due to being caught off balance I'd say. The only knockdown when he was really hurt imo was against Roger Mayweather.

Other knockdowns, against Poli Diaz, Buddy McGirt, Diosbelys Hurtado, Julio Cesar Vasquez, Felix Trinidad were due to being caught off balance. I don't think having a bad chin had anything to do with it. Being so elaborate with his defense, ducking down, weaving left and right, it's easy to lose balance if tagged, and that's what pretty much happened in those instances.

Mind you, I don't think he had a granite chin or anything, but I wouldn't put those knockdowns due to chin issues.

That's the key. When you twist and turn your way out of punches with your upper body, you're operating on a high-risk strategy: if you get caught, you're going over.

[Sweet Pea]

Between yourself and Sweet Pea we have two guys that write as well about Whitaker as anyone anywhere, I think. We're really spoiled. Spot on.

Appreciated. How bout this doozy posted in the "How to beat Whitaker" thread a couple weeks ago? This one even gave me some insight. Proof that the cunt is still a mad genius I think.


At lightweight? There's only a handful who'd stand a significant chance, let alone pull it off.

It's not to do with Whitaker's strength, stamina, speed, power or durability, all of which he had, but not particularly in abundance. Yes, he was a natural fighter, but he was also such a great visionary that he could read his opponents and adapt to whatever they conjured up as a gameplan (I say conjured to imply 'thrown together' - as Whitaker was hard to read himself). The simpler and more textbook a fighter was, the more decisive Whitaker would beat him.

That's why I think the two fighters best designed to beat Whitaker are Carlos Ortiz, and in particular, Roberto Duran. Both had multiple forms of attack and Duran especially was quick, defensively brilliant and every bit as clever. I don't think any fighter could fight with a single gameplan and stick with it (like Henry Armstrong might do) without losing on points to Whitaker. You'd have to mix it up.

[Robbi]

Most of his knockdowns came as he was bending his knees -squatting down - towards the floor.

[sweet_scientist]

Between yourself and Sweet Pea we have two guys that write as well about Whitaker as anyone anywhere, I think. We're really spoiled. Spot on.

Cheers Mac. I do get a bit fanboyish about Whitaker sometimes myself, but I'm glad you enjoy my more objective moments with regards to him.:good

[sweet_scientist]

How do you rate Whitaker's chin?

I'd give it about a 7.5 out of 10 and call it a very good chin.

I think his mettle and heart outstrip his chin, and perhaps make his chin look better than it was.

[Arriba]

I know against Trinidad he got hit with a good shot whilst being off balance. A key example of proper punch placement at the right time.

[DINAMITA]

I'd give it about a 7.5 out of 10 and call it a very good chin.

I think his mettle and heart outstrip his chin, and perhaps make his chin look better than it was.

Perhaps. I just think that the Trinidad fight was proof of an excellent chin (8 or above out of 10). So many fighters would have succumbed to the power in that fight and that situation.

[The Wanderer]

On the original subject, I agree with the majority. I don't know if I've seen all of the Whitaker knockdowns, but the only one I've seen where he seemed to be hurt or in trouble at all was against Roger Mayweather. (Mayweather was pissed after Whitaker pulled down his trunks :lol:). (By the way, does anyone have a clip of that? After I get done with my current project I want to do a Whitaker tribute and I've never been able to find that clip on youtube).

As for Whitaker's chin, I'm with Dinamita in that I'd rate it at least an 8 out of 10. Maybe about 8.5. Nobody goes the distance with Trinidad getting hit the whole way, (and Pea was shot enough that he was getting hit a lot in that fight) without having a very good chin.

Now, another subject prompted by watching the videos TheGreatA posted: does anyone know if the HBO crew, particularly Lampley, had any difficulties with Pernell or disliked him? I ask because something I've seen over and over again in HBO clips of Whitaker fights is the commentators talking about how hard Pea was hit when his opponent was clearly missing, how hurt he was when he seems fine, etc. Take the sequence around 1:30 of this clip

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or saying that Oscar was hitting Whitaker when Pea was making Oscar look the fool, and so on and so forth. Or maybe was that them just trying to make the fight look closer and more exciting?

[TheGreatA]

On the original subject, I agree with the majority. I don't know if I've seen all of the Whitaker knockdowns, but the only one I've seen where he seemed to be hurt or in trouble at all was against Roger Mayweather. (Mayweather was pissed after Whitaker pulled down his trunks :lol:). (By the way, does anyone have a clip of that? After I get done with my current project I want to do a Whitaker tribute and I've never been able to find that clip on youtube).

As for Whitaker's chin, I'm with Dinamita in that I'd rate it at least an 8 out of 10. Maybe about 8.5. Nobody goes the distance with Trinidad getting hit the whole way, (and Pea was shot enough that he was getting hit a lot in that fight) without having a very good chin.

Now, another subject prompted by watching the videos TheGreatA posted: does anyone know if the HBO crew, particularly Lampley, had any difficulties with Pernell or disliked him. I ask because something I've seen over and over again in HBO clips of Whitaker fights is the commentators talking about how hard Pea was hit when his opponent was clearly missing, etc. Take the sequence around 1:30 of this clip

or saying that Oscar was hitting Whitaker when Pea was making Oscar look the fool, and so on and so forth. Or maybe was that them just trying to make the fight look closer and more exciting?

Lampley probably did have something against Whitaker. I just rewatched Mayweather vs Corrales and he said that "Mayweather's supporters have compared him to Sugar Ray Leonard and his critics have compared him to Pernell Whitaker". I don't know what's so bad about being compared to Whitaker...

[sweet_scientist]

On the original subject, I agree with the majority. I don't know if I've seen all of the Whitaker knockdowns, but the only one I've seen where he seemed to be hurt or in trouble at all was against Roger Mayweather. (Mayweather was pissed after Whitaker pulled down his trunks :lol:). (By the way, does anyone have a clip of that? After I get done with my current project I want to do a Whitaker tribute and I've never been able to find that clip on youtube).

As for Whitaker's chin, I'm with Dinamita in that I'd rate it at least an 8 out of 10. Maybe about 8.5. Nobody goes the distance with Trinidad getting hit the whole way, (and Pea was shot enough that he was getting hit a lot in that fight) without having a very good chin.

Now, another subject prompted by watching the videos TheGreatA posted: does anyone know if the HBO crew, particularly Lampley, had any difficulties with Pernell or disliked him? I ask because something I've seen over and over again in HBO clips of Whitaker fights is the commentators talking about how hard Pea was hit when his opponent was clearly missing, how hurt he was when he seems fine, etc. Take the sequence around 1:30 of this clip

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

or saying that Oscar was hitting Whitaker when Pea was making Oscar look the fool, and so on and so forth. Or maybe was that them just trying to make the fight look closer and more exciting?

I'm not sure if Lampley had a personal agenda or if it was more an issue of general incompetence to distinguish between a landed punch and a missed punch. I'm guessing it's the latter. And on that front, Lampley is not alone though, and neither is Whitaker as a victim of it. Many defensive fighters would be subject to the same thing. I'm sure if Lampley was watching the last round of Locche-Cervantes 1 his commetary would be a little like this:

"Hard right hand by Cervantes! And another! And now Locche is not fighting back! Cervantes is beginning to impose himself on Locche and we may be close to a stoppage here...."

:lol:

[DudeGuyMan]

What was the cause of Pernell Whitaker's knockdowns?

Dudes were punching him.

[Arriba]

On the original subject, I agree with the majority. I don't know if I've seen all of the Whitaker knockdowns, but the only one I've seen where he seemed to be hurt or in trouble at all was against Roger Mayweather. (Mayweather was pissed after Whitaker pulled down his trunks :lol:). (By the way, does anyone have a clip of that? After I get done with my current project I want to do a Whitaker tribute and I've never been able to find that clip on youtube).

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

It's in here somewhere. I remember seeing it at around 4:45 to 5 mins.

As per Lampley having a grudge or anything against Whitaker, I truly think it might have more to do with the fact that Whitaker was ever seldom hit cleanly...that sometimes Lampley in an attempt to create something out of nothing took anything somewhat close to a clean shot as a potentially debilitating blow.

[ChrisPontius]

For me, his chin is at least an 8 if not a 9. Yes, he could be hurt, but it was rather rare and he has never been stopped by his punch in his entire career, despite often being the smaller man and boxing tough opposition very early in his career.

The fact that he went the distance with Trinidad at the butt end of his career, without genuinely being hurt or close to being stopped, is absolutely amazing. Trinidad is one of the hardest hitting welters ever and it was above Pea's natural weight. I compare the knockdown by Mayweather and going 12 with Trinidad with Ali being hurt badly by Cooper, but going the distance with Shavers at the end of his career.

[DINAMITA]

For me, his chin is at least an 8 if not a 9. Yes, he could be hurt, but it was rather rare and he has never been stopped by his punch in his entire career, despite often being the smaller man and boxing tough opposition very early in his career.

The fact that he went the distance with Trinidad at the butt end of his career, without genuinely being hurt or close to being stopped, is absolutely amazing. Trinidad is one of the hardest hitting welters ever and it was above Pea's natural weight. I compare the knockdown by Mayweather and going 12 with Trinidad with Ali being hurt badly by Cooper, but going the distance with Shavers at the end of his career.

Or Toney being dropped and hurt by Reggie Johnson, then later going 12 rounds and arguably beating a peak Sam Peter at heavyweight.