Damn. I rewatched MAB-JMM and IMO MAB won!!!

[PATSYS]

Here is my scorecard:

Round--MAB--JMM
1--10--9
2--10--9
3--10--9
4--9--10
5--9--10
6--10--9
7--10-10
8--10-9
9--10--10
10--9-10
11--9--10
12--10--9
-------------
--116--114


Notes:

Round 7, JMM dominated but MAB KD him, that should have made it 10-9 for MAB. However MAB gets deducted by a pt for hitting while JMM was down. Hence I scored even.

Round 9, MAB slightly edged JMM on this round but JMM landed harder shot, so I scored even.

Round 11, very close round but I scored for JMM for harder shots. Lederman scoredit for MAB though.


When I first watched it I had it clearly for JMM but after watching it again and carefully, MAB won that fight. And rounds 7 and 9 coudl very arguably be scored for MAB and that makes it a 2 pt swing for MAB.

MAB won that fight!!!

Comments??

[divac]

Warning: leave this thread alone, a troll is on the loose!:yep

[gallagher430]

I was confused on that 7th round deduction... Since the ref didn't call it a knock down, why would hitting him again deserve a point taken off? Was the ref basically contradicting himself there or what?

[huki]

I had Barrera winning too if you scored round 7 even. Either way, it was a very close match and one of the best fights in the last few years. The idiotic scores made it seem like Marquez dominated and people continue to say that Barrera is finished, even though he put on a great performance. But I give major credit to Marquez also. It was a beautiful match and one of those rare fights where every single punch that was thrown mattered. It's just sad that in the future, people will go to boxrec, see the scorecards, and think it was a dominating win by Marquez against a faded Barrera in a one-sided fight.

[PowerPuncher]

I had Barrera winning when I watched it, only by about a point or 2, I much preffered Barreras work to JMMs

[shelterr]

I had Barrera winning when it first aired, but after rewatching it even if i score round 7 even (which it should have been) the best i can get barrera is a draw. I feel that JMM deserved it by a point. Even though i am a much bigger Barrera fan, Marquez was the more dominant of the two and was able to hurt Barrera badly at times. His shots were also much harder, so with the punch-stats being as close as they were, JMM would have the overall edge.

[Doomas]

I watched it only once, and had JMM wining by 1 point if I remember correctly. Close fight, but when you look at final score cards, even if MAB scored few knockdowns he would still loose..this fight left bad taste in my mouth..lets hope we wont see that kind of scoring in the future...wich I doubt

[LeedsLad]

I had it 114-114, but i counted round 7 as the judges probably did, a 10-8 round for JMM. If i remember correctly, JMM had the best of that round before Barrera hit him with a good shot? Been awhile since i watched it though.

I didnt have much problem with JMM winning, it was a good, close entertaining fight, but the margins on the judges cards were ridiculous.

[Morrissey]

This is rather interesting.

I scored it for JMM, and thought it was a clear victory for him, especially during the 2nd half of the fight, wherein MAB was obviously exhausted and was visibly frustrated with the outcome. JMM was just prepared to pummel him in the closing rounds.

The first few rounds, it was all MAB, but you can see the marked difference as the fight went to the second part. JMM became the aggressor and MAB abandoned his effective jab (do not know the fuckin' reason), and his punches seem no crisp in there.

But this fight made me appreciate MAB's skills as a boxer, moreso than JMM. Rounds 2 -4 were a showcase of how to control the fight with your jab and spacing, and he did this against a very skilled technician and counterpuncher in JMM. I really thought, prime for prime, MAB can beat JMM. The fatigue factor really played in this game, though.

[Morrissey]

I am going to watch it later, btw.

[divac]

This is rather interesting.

I scored it for JMM, and thought it was a clear victory for him, especially during the 2nd half of the fight, wherein MAB was obviously exhausted and was visibly frustrated with the outcome. JMM was just prepared to pummel him in the closing rounds.

The first few rounds, it was all MAB, but you can see the marked difference as the fight went to the second part. JMM became the aggressor and MAB abandoned his effective jab (do not know the fuckin' reason), and his punches seem no crisp in there.

But this fight made me appreciate MAB's skills as a boxer, moreso than JMM. Rounds 2 -4 were a showcase of how to control the fight with your jab and spacing, and he did this against a very skilled technician and counterpuncher in JMM. I really thought, prime for prime, MAB can beat JMM. The fatigue factor really played in this game, though.

You fail to factor in JMM's thought process and his instructions form Nacho Beristein......

.....the instructions being to be the aggressor, because to sit back in a jab fest and waiting to counter would more likely result in less meaningful punches and the judges siding with a legend.

The instruction to JMM were to attack and land hard, which he did in most of the rounds.
As a result, during the second half of the fight a beatdown had commenced which was only interfered by the one shot that knocked Marquez down.

.....but make no mistake, Marquez' cleaner and harder blows along with his work to MAB's body, resulted in MAB's slowing down toward the last several rounds!

Dont just let age dictate the thinking of what might have been in their primes, because Marquez is actually older, and he himself is not as quick, fast, or as slick as he used to be!


In a situation like this with Marquez fighting a name and legend like MAB, he has no choice but to take more risks to please the scoring judge.
In a prime for prime matchup, JMM most likely fights from the pocket to set up his counters, and MAB is most likely the puire aggressor all the way through!

Think Morrisey, think!!!!!!!!!;)

[bhwbj]

I had Barrera winning it when I initially watched it.

[PATSYS]

Warning: leave this thread alone, a troll is on the loose!:yep

Read the replies and tell me who's the troll now :lol: :lol:

Care to comment on the round 7 scoring? You do not sound to ecstatic to say anything about it :yep :rofl

I was being totally fair in scoring the fight and even giving JMM the benefit of the doubt on rounds 9 and 11.

And in a lot of the rounds, MAB's jab were landing consistently. May not be the hardest punch in the world but could count in scoring.

Lastly, watch their faces at the end of the fight, that alone should tell you who got hit more on the face

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
And don't even attempt to be funny by thinking JMM might have landed in the body - cause MAB was the more active body puncher of the 2 throughout the fight.

[PATSYS]

That doesnt mean anything. We all know that JMM is feather fisted. Funny I thought it is common knowledge that JMM (being naturally bigger fighter) is the harder hitter of the 2.

[Morrissey]

You fail to factor in JMM's thought process and his instructions form Nacho Beristein......

.....the instructions being to be the aggressor, because to sit back in a jab fest and waiting to counter would more likely result in less meaningful punches and the judges siding with a legend.

The instruction to JMM were to attack and land hard, which he did in most of the rounds.
As a result, during the second half of the fight a beatdown had commenced which was only interfered by the one shot that knocked Marquez down.

.....but make no mistake, Marquez' cleaner and harder blows along with his work to MAB's body, resulted in MAB's slowing down toward the last several rounds!

Dont just let age dictate the thinking of what might have been in their primes, because Marquez is actually older, and he himself is not as quick, fast, or as slick as he used to be!


In a situation like this with Marquez fighting a name and legend like MAB, he has no choice but to take more risks to please the scoring judge.
In a prime for prime matchup, JMM most likely fights from the pocket to set up his counters, and MAB is most likely the puire aggressor all the way through!

Think Morrisey, think!!!!!!!!!;)

I know they are both of the same age, or JMM is older of one year as you have mentioned, but make no mistake, MAB has fought a lot of really tough battles and wars, and the wear and tear has accumulated over the years, and one who has seen his game since he began can really notice that.

While I do not discredit JMM's competition, you can perhaps agree with that between the two, JMM has less mileage. Yes, his real age may show but compared to MAB in the same ring that night, he looked like a prime Erik Morales:D. In reality, JMM has not shown obvious decline as MAB or EM had, or maybe, it is due to his level of competition, which vis-a-vis with his two fellow MExicans, made him appear more as a protected fighter than the one being avoided, that a marked decline can not be clearly observed. He was, and still, the same fighter who had given PAc trouble in their initial encounter. He had slowed a little, maybe, but he was Flash personified when he fought MAB.:good

That reason, Divac, and admitting he is the superior technician made me choose him over MAB in that fight. It was as clear as picking Pac to slaughter MAB in their coming rematch. Easy. I expected him to outbox and outpunch the aging MAB, and he did.

Now, you can also say that I underrated MAB in that fight that I was actually surprised when he controlled the first few rounds, thoroughly outboxing the highly-regarded boxer in JMM. I didn't expect him to do that, much more dictating the pace of those rounds.

Of course, JMM has a lot to do on why MAB got beaten, i.e., he was more aggressive, had much more harder and cleaner punches, more active, but one can only imagine if that was a prime MAB, whose KO power was more visible, the fight could have been much, much, much (infinite:yep ) closer, and IMO, would have been fairly called a pick' em classic.

[Morrissey]

That doesnt mean anything. We all know that JMM is feather fisted.

JMM has an above decent world-class punch. He would not have knocked out JAndaeng and Jaca if he is feather-fisted.

That is why I am so damn disappointed that his match with Juarez was called-off becasue it would have tested his power against a safety-first fighter who has bombs in both of his hands.:|

[robert ungurean]

I felt MAB won also.

[Chert]

yep. imho, mab won this very close fight too.

[Morrissey]

WHy do people think MAB won?

I can't really comprehend this one.

[Imperial1]

Mab was robded in that fight ..How anyone scored this fight for JMM is beyond me !!

[Morrissey]

Mab was robded in that fight ..How anyone scored this fight for JMM is beyond me !!

seriously?

Except for those few first rounds, MAB was completely outworked and was clearly beaten to every punch and combinations after round 5.

[Robbi]

Here is my scorecard:

Round--MAB--JMM
1--10--9
2--10--9
3--10--9
4--9--10
5--9--10
6--10--9
7--10-10
8--10-9
9--10--10
10--9-10
11--9--10
12--10--9
-------------
--116--114


Notes:

Round 7, JMM dominated but MAB KD him, that should have made it 10-9 for MAB. However MAB gets deducted by a pt for hitting while JMM was down. Hence I scored even.

Round 9, MAB slightly edged JMM on this round but JMM landed harder shot, so I scored even.

Round 11, very close round but I scored for JMM for harder shots. Lederman scoredit for MAB though.


When I first watched it I had it clearly for JMM but after watching it again and carefully, MAB won that fight. And rounds 7 and 9 coudl very arguably be scored for MAB and that makes it a 2 pt swing for MAB.

MAB won that fight!!!

Comments??

Marquez clearly won the 12th round. Not even close. Much better punches and Barrera misses so often.

[Imperial1]

seriously?

Except for those few first rounds, MAB was completely outworked and was clearly beaten to every punch and combinations after round 5.

After rd 5 the fight got closer but MAB still had a decent enough lead on pts .And that BS w/the KD ..Anyways I felt he won ..

[Morrissey]

After rd 5 the fight got closer but MAB still had a decent enough lead on pts .And that BS w/the KD ..Anyways I felt he won ..

yes, that round 7 KD was the turning point, IMO because it led MAB to frustration and derailed his "game" up to that point, wherein JMM continued to capitalized on his strenght.

[Robbi]

Mab was robded in that fight ..How anyone scored this fight for JMM is beyond me !!

Your having a laugh. :good

[Amsterdam]

After rd 5 the fight got closer but MAB still had a decent enough lead on pts .And that BS w/the KD ..Anyways I felt he won ..

Learn how to score a fight by the correct criteria before claiming that someone was robbed.

That was a clear win for JMM.

[Lampley]

I thought it was an entertaining, competitive fight, but also a clear win for JMM. I scored it 8-4 in terms of rounds, ignoring the KD nonsense in the 7th. In other words, however you score that round doesn't change the outcome on my card.

Marquez landed the harder shots during the second half of the fight, hurting MAB visibly. I thought Barrera's fatigue and Marquez's strength advantage were the deciding factors.

I can see how you'd score it more closely, but to me this was the proper decision and the judges scored it correctly.

[Minotauro]

I had Barrera winning to I think by two points if I remember 115-113.

[41fever]

I scored a close one for MAB too.

[achillesthegreat]

Main problem is the cards are criminal. I had it 115-114.

[Imperial1]

Learn how to score a fight by the correct criteria before claiming that someone was robbed.

That was a clear win for JMM.

Clear you have several pages with people seeing it otherwise !Clear learn how to watch a fight there was nothing clear about that decision ..You must be realated to the ring side judges who tallied up by far some of the worst scores in recent times !

[divac]

Clearly there are alot of MAB fans in this forum, so to try and rewrite history by claiming that MAB deserved to win vs JMM is not going to make it so.

When the fight was fresh from being fought, there was a fair share that came in here and commenting that they thought MAB may have edged it.....
.....very few would argue when the fight was clear in everybodies minds the intangibles on why MAB was the deserved winner in their eyes.

Just about every boxing site had JMM the clear winner, with a few exceptions.

The further away removed from the fight, the more daring the MAB fans to claim robbery, as the fight is not as fresh in most minds as it was right after the contest.

Get a grip friends, HBO and Harold Lederman saying that MAB is off to winning the first several rounds of the match does'nt make it so......
.....learn to score proffesional boxing for yourself lads!:hey

Here's a thread just recently held a couple of days ago in this very forum.....initially it was all MAB fans jumping in to make their vote which early on gave MAB a sizeable lead, but the forum caught on to this injustice and the more reasonable members of this forum came in to make their mark......

Here's the link, as you can see.....JMM has a sizeable lead on who the members of this forum think won their fight!
Read it and weep!:deal :yep

You cant rewrite history friends, settle down, whats been done is done!!!:deal :yep

[Only registered and activated users can see links]




Gerry Cooney once said of his fight with Larry Holmes.....
....."Everytime I view the fight on video tape, I see it closer and closer, one of these days I'm actually going to view it and win the thing!":lol: :lol: :lol:

......There go the mindset of the MAB fans!:yep

[Imperial1]

Get a grip friends, HBO and Harold Lederman saying that MAB is off to winning the first several rounds of the match does'nt make it so......
.....learn to score proffesional boxing for yourself lads!

Even the people hired to do the scoring don't usually know how to score a fight ..And forget the HBO announcing crew they call huge wild misses as accurate shots ..

And regardless of what a few media types thought not everyone is in agreement ..

[divac]

Even the people hired to do the scoring don't usually know how to score a fight ..And forget the HBO announcing crew they call huge wild misses as accurate shots ..

And regardless of what a few media types thought not everyone is in agreement ..

There was absolutely nothing fishy going on with the judges here friend, all in aggreement and by wide scores......and in the media, the scores were right along the same lines!:hat

[Imperial1]

There was absolutely nothing fishy going on with the judges here friend, all in aggreement and by wide scores......and in the media, the scores were right along the same lines!:hat


wide score ?? No way that fight was a ud !!

[divac]

wide score ?? No way that fight was a ud !!


Read it and weep bro.......116-111 116-111 and 118-109

Unanimous and all in favor of JMM!

......and most of the media scores were right along the same lines!

What is it that they call HBO?????

Home Barrera Office!:rofl :lol: :D

[juancho214]

That doesnt mean anything. We all know that JMM is feather fisted.i dont think hes feather fisted ,shit he rocked barrera

[Imperial1]

Read it and weep bro.......116-111 116-111 and 118-109

Unanimous and all in favor of JMM!

......and most of the media scores were right along the same lines!

What is it that they call HBO?????

Home Barrera Office!:rofl :lol: :D


116 -111 is that a joke and you honestly brag about that :patsch

[In_FlaMeS]

I had the fight for JMM

[4Rounder]

I had it 116-111 for Marquez, no robbery, its ridiculous to call it like that.

The right man who put everything he had in this fight won, Juan Manuel Marquez should not be put down or discredited.

[divac]

116 -111 is that a joke and you honestly brag about that :patsch

116-112 is 8 rounds to 4
.....the point deducted form MAB made it 116-111

I had it 117-110 or 9 rounds to 3

I felt that Marquez clearly won most of the rounds he got credited for, while MAB eeked out the rounds he won!

.....at the end of the day, there's absolutely no shame in competing and losing to JMM!

[Imperial1]

116-112 is 8 rounds to 4
.....the point deducted form MAB made it 116-111

I had it 117-110 or 9 rounds to 3

I felt that Marquez clearly won most of the rounds he got credited for, while MAB eeked out the rounds he won!

.....at the end of the day, there's absolutely no shame in competing and losing to JMM!

I don't have a problem w/JMM winning the fight but I didn't feel he won and nor did I think it was by a UD ..Shit JMM will certainly be a HOF but my issue is with the officiating ..To me it was a roberry !

[Robbi]

I don't have a problem w/JMM winning the fight but I didn't feel he won and nor did I think it was by a UD ..Shit JMM will certainly be a HOF but my issue is with the officiating ..To me it was a roberry !

If you have any fighter winning, then its a UD decision in your eyes. Because only you are scoring the fight. You even went to say that you don't have a problem with JMM winning the fight, but you didn't feel he won, and and it should not have been a UD. Then to make it sound even more silly, you even said it was a "robbery".

If you score a fight, then whoever wins, thats the way it should be.

I had De La Hoya beating Trinidad, and in my opinion the judges got it wrong. So why would I say it should have been a SD, and I don't have a problem with Trinidad winning. Clearly I do have a problem with Trinidad winning the fight.

[divac]

I don't have a problem w/JMM winning the fight but I didn't feel he won and nor did I think it was by a UD ..Shit JMM will certainly be a HOF but my issue is with the officiating ..To me it was a roberry !

Imperial, this is by no means an attempt to make fun of your knowleadge......
....maybe you're a young fan, or fairly new to the sport of boxing, but anyways, a UD means that all three judges ruled one fighter the winner.

Each judge could have scored the fight 12 rounds to 0 or they could have scored 7 rounds to 5......in each case whether its by the wide score of 12 to 0 or close score of 7-5, the deciscion in both cases is unanimous.
Unanimous means all the judges were in agreement of the winner, the score disparity does'nt matter.

A majority decision means means two judges scored for one fighter, and the other had it a draw.

.....and a split decision means that two judges scored for one fighter, and one for the other.

I'm not certain if you understood what those terms meant, but if you did'nt, thats the breakdown.

Again, thats not a putdown to you, I've known many fans of boxing who did'nt know what the terms meant.


.......anytime somebody is'nt quite sure what a term means, by all means ask......this forum is loaded with posters who are more than glad to help in any question related to boxing!
......I myself am often educated by others in this forum!:thumbsup

[SugarShane_24]

I think so too.


But it was a hell of a close fight. Both men could've won.



If only Jay Nady got it right and called a KD, it would surely be a win for MAB.

[Rumsfeld]

I'm a big-time Barrera fan, and sadly, there's no way that MAB won that fight. No way, no how!

The fight was competitive, but scored on a round-by-round basis, JMM did a little more in enough rounds so that the end result appeared much more lopsided than the totality of the fight would indicate.

Breaks my heart, but 118-109 JMM.

[Dorfmeister]

Now please take sound off and score it again! Jim Lampley roars too much as MAB double hooks and goes into silent meditation as JMM out-manoeuvres, out-punches, out-scores weary MAB all the way, just an opinion , it has its value as any other - I also found the judges scorecards abnormally wide in favor of the challenger but HBO turned 12 3 minutes rounds into a case of a knockdown and that gat to be biased.

[boxbox]

Imperial, this is by no means an attempt to make fun of your knowleadge......
....maybe you're a young fan, or fairly new to the sport of boxing, but anyways, a UD means that all three judges ruled one fighter the winner.

Each judge could have scored the fight 12 rounds to 0 or they could have scored 7 rounds to 5......in each case whether its by the wide score of 12 to 0 or close score of 7-5, the deciscion in both cases is unanimous.
Unanimous means all the judges were in agreement of the winner, the score disparity does'nt matter.

A majority decision means means two judges scored for one fighter, and the other had it a draw.

.....and a split decision means that two judges scored for one fighter, and one for the other.

I'm not certain if you understood what those terms meant, but if you did'nt, thats the breakdown.

Again, thats not a putdown to you, I've known many fans of boxing who did'nt know what the terms meant.


.......anytime somebody is'nt quite sure what a term means, by all means ask......this forum is loaded with posters who are more than glad to help in any question related to boxing!
......I myself am often educated by others in this forum!:thumbsup




thanks for that! geez! everytime i learn sumthin new!:good