Muhammad Ali 1974 v Larry Holmes 1982

[Stevie G]

There has been much discussion as to who would win both in their prime,but I will take a new slant on it. At age 32 both were slightly past their best but still capable of beating anyone else,and scoring legacy wins. Ali dismantling George Foreman and Holmes schooling Gerry Cooney. This one would get off to a slow start with left jabs being prominent. Ali's slightly faster and Holmes' a bit harder. A chess match would ensue with each man trying to force the other into making errors and capitalising on it. The later rounds would bring out the warrior in both fighters and the fireworks would finally start to explode. I'm doubtful whether there would be any knockdowns and at the end Ali's hand would be raised after an extremely close one. Maybe a split decision.

[Flea Man]

Well, personally I think the Foreman fight was harder for Ali. I.e he was a bigger challenge than Cooney.

Prime for Prime I say Holmes. I will have to re-watch Holmes-Cooney all the way through and get back to you on this proposed matchup :good

[Bill Butcher]

Muhammad Ali 1974 v Larry Holmes 1982 :think

Could go either way, I think Ali edges the championship rds to maybe take a split.

I think peak v peak, Ali takes a UD.

[fists of fury]

I've always felt Holmes would stand an excellent chance with any version of Ali. In this scenario, I'd pick Holmes.

[robert ungurean]

I've always felt Holmes would stand an excellent chance with any version of Ali. In this scenario, I'd pick Holmes.
I agree

[Robbi]

From 1978 until 1982 was Holmes's prime. I'd take him to beat the 1974 Ali on points.

[OBCboxer]

Good posts. I pick Holmes by decision. Simply put, I think Holmes was a better fighter in 1982 than Ali was in 1974. It's a great match-up in a prime for prime sense as well.

[mr. magoo]

I concur with the majority who pick Larry Holmes via decision over a 1974 Ali. Muhammad in 1967 is a different story though.

[Muchmoore]

Holmes UD. The Ali legend may enable Ali to get the decision anyway, though ;)

Holmes was better than Ali in nearly everything by 1974. Ali wouldn't be able to negate the jab enough to win.

[OBCboxer]

Holmes UD. The Ali legend may enable Ali to get the decision anyway, though ;)

Holmes was better than Ali in nearly everything by 1974. Ali wouldn't be able to negate the jab enough to win.

Uh-oh! Controversy?!?!?!? :shock:

[Mr Butt]

holmes sd because ali got gifted rounds in some of his fights

[My dinner with Conteh]

Holmes UD. The Ali legend may enable Ali to get the decision anyway, though


Yes, I also see Holmes leading until a late rally by the judges saves Ali. :yep

[PetethePrince]

Holmes win. This Ali is far more gone than Holmes. Ali had more ring smarts and could adapt and face adversity very well, as could Holmes. I think out of 10 times Holmes would win at least 5, probably 6. It's close, but I have to say Holmes cause he's closer to his best form.

[Stevie G]

For my semi-final of this bout I would have the 1974 Foreman v 1982 Cooney. This would be a younger,faster version of their 1990 fight. Similar outcome. Foreman by early round ko.

[Flea Man]

I've always felt Holmes would stand an excellent chance with any version of Ali. In this scenario, I'd pick Holmes.

I think Holmes has a stylistic advantage over Ali for the simple fact that I think he has a better jab. Maybe not as fast, but more effective.

As I always stress, IN MY OPINION

[ThinBlack]

Ali would win an 8-7 UD over Holmes.He takes it in the last couple of rounds.

[sinol]

the ali who fought norton in the rematch and frazier rematch would beat larry holmes no problem

[Stevie G]

Ali would win an 8-7 UD over Holmes.He takes it in the last couple of rounds.

One of my earliest threads on here :happy

The championship rounds were Ali's forte at that stage of his career.

[ETM]

Holmes would win 9-6.

Whether he got the decision is another story.

[JohnnyB]

I'm not sure.

Larry was close to his prime but Ali showed against Foreman that he could take the punishment and still had enough in the tank to dispose of Foreman. Ali obviously left a lot in the ring that night so after Foreman his chances go down but if it's before Foreman Ali is hard to beat.

I can't see Ali being stopped by Larry Bigpants. He might out work Ali and be hard to hit but I would expect Ali to have a plan for this.

It's a 50/50 fight for me.

[tommygun711]

Holmes would win 9-6.

Whether he got the decision is another story.

:lol:

[Sanxion]

The Ali who prepared for Frazier and Foreman was in better condition than at any stage after his return. He was lean, strong, sharp, accurate and extremely resilient. As great a fighter as Holmes was, I doubt he would have defeated the Ali of 1974.

Ali defeats Holmes by a unanimous decision.

[The Predator]

Ali 1974 was still fast in his hands and refelexes, Holmes was little of a copycat of Ali and to be honest you won´t beat the original.
Ali 74 was not in his prime. Ali was in his prime when he fought Cleveland Williams and probably lost his best years during the exile.
However, Ali take this one. Holmes was good but not that good. He would not beat Ali when thrilla in manilla condition either. After that fight Ali lost some of his speed and reflexes.
The predator

[doug.ie]

Holmes was little of a copycat of Ali

you think so?...i dunno about that

[Webbiano]

79-81 were Holmes best years IMO and apart from the 7th with shavers, he pretty much won every other round.

Holmes 9-6 UD. Holmes builds a good lead early on and goes even through the last 6 with Ali. As swell as this the suggestion that Ali of Manila beats 82 Holmes is absolutely ludacris.

I also think Holmes is one of only 3 heavyweights that has atleast a 40% chance to beat Ali prime for prime, along with Frazier and Lewis. Shame we never saw it happen :/

[ETM]

:lol:
:yep

[timmers612]

One thing I noticed in the bout they had that would have affected the outcome of an early match is that as slow as Ali was, when he circled around Larry all Holmes did was follow without throwing punches, Larry had to wait until Ali stopped to unload on him. An earlier version of Ali may have won rounds just with his movement and jab unless Larry could have been trained out of this. Benny Briscoe had a similiar weakness he could never change in that when slipping punches he never learned how to throw himself until he stopped the movement.

[tommygun711]

:yep

there's no way he would beat ali, lol... Even this version would win a decision by a couple points. Ali had the speed, and more importantly, the right hand lead to handle Holmes.

[ETM]

there's no way he would beat ali, lol... Even this version would win a decision by a couple points. Ali had the speed, and more importantly, the right hand lead to handle Holmes.
No way? Really?

Holmes had speed too not to mention more smoke on his jab and more pop on his righthand than Ali ever did. He could outjab and at the very least jab with Ali.

9-6 is a close fight. I could see alot of close rounds where maybe Ali`s popularity gets him the edge.

Ali nostalgia is a terrible thing.:hi:

[ETM]

Holmes UD. The Ali legend may enable Ali to get the decision anyway, though ;)

Holmes was better than Ali in nearly everything by 1974. Ali wouldn't be able to negate the jab enough to win.

This

[Sardu]

The Cooney fight actually took a lot out of Holmes. So I would take Holmes over the 1974 Ali before the fight with Cooney. Post June 11th, 1982, I would take Ali on points.

[Sister Sledge]

I would take a prime Holmes over any version of Ali. Holmes would always be a stylistic nightmare for Muhamed. Holmes was a smarter fighter with a better jab and slightly better power. Holmes was also more accurate. Ali had more speed, but Holmes could nullify that with his ring generalship.

[punchy]

I suppose I favour Holmes at this age, but with Ali you never know, with Holmes I know what I am getting a highly skilled fighter with a tremendous jab, Ali is so intuitive, he could just surprise you and handle that jab with ease.

[Stevie G]

I suppose I favour Holmes at this age, but with Ali you never know, with Holmes I know what I am getting a highly skilled fighter with a tremendous jab, Ali is so intuitive, he could just surprise you and handle that jab with ease.

This is the key. Ali was the master at improvisation and adapting to different fighters and situations.

[MAG1965]

Ali by SD. Very close fight.

[MRBILL]

Hard to pick here... Ali was great against "Frazier and Foreman" in '74, while Holmes displayed greatness against "Snipes and Cooney" in '81 and '82...

I definately feel that Holmes has a real shot here at beating Ali in dream fight in which both dude's are age 32 yrs... Why does Holmes have a real shot here? Cuz Holmes was still more offensive minded / capable in 1982, where as Ali began needing more and more rest while looking to counter off the ropes by 1974... Not so much against Frazier, but certainly against Foreman...

I got balls... A 32 year old Holmes who TKO'd Cooney in '82 decisions a 32 year old Ali of the Foreman fight...

MR.BILL

[mr. magoo]

in order to beat a prime Holmes or even one who was slightly slipping, Ali would have to be at his very best. Ali of 1965-1967 is probably the only version that I'd pick to do it. Muhammad had gotten slower by 1974, and was relying on a system of outlasting his opponents to win. Not something that would work against Holmes. Only way to beat Larry is to be busier than he was.

[MRBILL]

in order to beat a prime Holmes or even one who was slightly slipping, Ali would have to be at his very best. Ali of 1965-1967 is probably the only version that I'd pick to do it. Muhammad had gotten slower by 1974, and was relying on a system of outlasting his opponents to win. Not something that would work against Holmes. Only way to beat Larry is to be busier than he was.

Pretty much as to what me thinks, too....:deal:bbb

SR.BILL:hat

[Stevie G]

Hard to pick here... Ali was great against "Frazier and Foreman" in '74, while Holmes displayed greatness against "Snipes and Cooney" in '81 and '82...

I definately feel that Holmes has a real shot here at beating Ali in dream fight in which both dude's are age 32 yrs... Why does Holmes have a real shot here? Cuz Holmes was still more offensive minded / capable in 1982, where as Ali began needing more and more rest while looking to counter off the ropes by 1974... Not so much against Frazier, but certainly against Foreman...

I got balls... A 32 year old Holmes who TKO'd Cooney in '82 decisions a 32 year old Ali of the Foreman fight...

MR.BILL

Ali tended to need respite on the ropes against pressure come forward types. Holmes was n't one of that ilk. More a stand up boxer.

[ETM]

Holmes can match Ali`s height, range and speed. He was just as sharp and had a similar skillset. Larry had a little more variety in his offense. Worked the body a little better and had a better uppercut.

Problem for Ali is that he keeps his hands at his waist while Holmes had a more conventional stance. So while Larry Holmes is blocking, parrying many of Ali`s jabs. Ali would be eating Holmes jab square in the face. Not a good recipe for beating Larry Holmes.

Ali was a great great fighter but if he couldnt dominate you with his jab he became beatable. This is not a good style matchup for him.

[Stevie G]

Holmes can match Ali`s height, range and speed. He was just as sharp and had a similar skillset. Larry had a little more variety in his offense. Worked the body a little better and had a better uppercut.

Problem for Ali is that he keeps his hands at his waist while Holmes had a more conventional stance. So while Larry Holmes is blocking, parrying many of Ali`s jabs. Ali would be eating Holmes jab square in the face. Not a good recipe for beating Larry Holmes.

Ali was a great great fighter but if he couldnt dominate you with his jab he became beatable. This is not a good style matchup for him.

Good post,ETM

Ali's right hand leads would befuddle Holmes at times though.