Fitzsimmons' Style In-Depth

[cross_trainer]

Starting on page 116 of this book, you can see a collection of photographs where Fitzsimmons shows his style in freeze-frames.

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Comments? Critiques? Analysis?


EDIT: If the above link doesn't work, try these (still on page 115, I think).


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[GPater11093]

i cant see the page

[cross_trainer]

i cant see the page

Hmmm...It's showing up for me, but I guess the forum is having trouble reading it.

Look up "Physical culture and self-defense" by Robert Fitzsimmons on Google Books. It's full view. Skip to page 116. :good

[GPater11093]

its just shows me tiny snippets.

You couldnt copy and paste the page as an image could you?

[cross_trainer]

its just shows me tiny snippets.

You couldnt copy and paste the page as an image could you?

I'm not sure that I can copy and paste the pictures...but I've found the same book at several locations (illustrations on page 115). Tell me if any of these work:



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[Only registered and activated users can see links] (free download)

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[GPater11093]

the first link worked good

From what i have seen. The empahsis was on countering the shot from the opponent with there own. This left them open to a follow up punch that to me indicates a lack of combination punching in that era.

The punching and slipping are almost exactly as they are today.

From these pictures i'd get the impression hes a clever counter puncher with precise accurate counters. He worked the body well also and had clever movement and side steps to avoid punches.

[Boilermaker]

i have just scanned it quickly. Some of the interesting things i have noted are:

The foul Pivot blow. Is it performed as technically correct today?

The throw opponents left lead in the air block. I have never seen this today. It explains the weird Fitz vs Corbett pose with both arms flailing in the air.

In one of the pictures where Fitz shows how to stop the left hand lead, his right hand is actually in (shock and horror) a high guard position.

The famous solar plexus punch is in actual fact a left hand switch solar plexus punch, followed by a left uppercut to the chin. Was Corbett really knocked out by the solar plexus shot? Or was it the left Uppercut to the chin that Fitz says here.

[GPater11093]

i have just scanned it quickly. Some of the interesting things i have noted are:

The foul Pivot blow. Is it performed as technically correct today?

The throw opponents left lead in the air block. I have never seen this today. It explains the weird Fitz vs Corbett pose with both arms flailing in the air.

In one of the pictures where Fitz shows how to stop the left hand lead, his right hand is actually in (shock and horror) a high guard position.

The famous solar plexus punch is in actual fact a left hand switch solar plexus punch, followed by a left uppercut to the chin. Was Corbett really knocked out by the solar plexus shot? Or was it the left Uppercut to the chin that Fitz says here.

great point there, but i think from the film it was the left to the body

[Boilermaker]

great point there, but i think from the film it was the left to the body

Another thing i noticed from a quick scan of some of the rest of the book, is that Fitzimmons places his weight in the Corbett fight at about 10 lbs lighter than boxrec does.

[GPater11093]

Another thing i noticed from a quick scan of some of the rest of the book, is that Fitzimmons places his weight in the Corbett fight at about 10 lbs lighter than boxrec does.

interesting that, i didnt read the book just the pictures. Wonde which ones right?

[Barney]

He is truly an enigma. A physical description of him with spindly legs and a top heavy upper body would not lead one to think of him as a boxer. But I believe I read Nat Fleischer describe him as a terrible heavy puncher.

I guess it was Johnson that showed him his limitations.

[Boilermaker]

He is truly an enigma. A physical description of him with spindly legs and a top heavy upper body would not lead one to think of him as a boxer. But I believe I read Nat Fleischer describe him as a terrible heavy puncher.

I guess it was Johnson that showed him his limitations.

I really dont think that Johnson showed him anything. He was so old then it isnt funny. I dont think there is a fighter his age whoever lived (including Foreman, Holyfield etc) that could beat Jack Johnson at that time. Also consider that it is widely acknowedged that his arm was injured going into the fight. Ineterestingly, the book also had a quote from Fitzsimmons saying that he was to retire after the Corbett fight as he had proved no fighter lived who he could not beat in a prize fight. If this is the case, it is quite possible that he actually did take it easy and lose the extra something, like Johnson, Willard Dempsey, Tyson etc all did, once they won the world title. The Jeffries defence was a good 2 years after the Corbett win, so who knows.

If anything, the Jeffries showed some form of limitation against big modern heavies, but he wasnt exactly disgraced in this fight either, so it isnt out of the question for him to defeat some modern superheavies. If he weighed at the middleweight limit when he won beat Corbett, i think that this was the biggest win ever by a middleweight and it solidifies him as the greatest middleweight ever and probably the greatest pound for pound fighter ever.

[My2Sense]

From what I've seen and read about Fitz, I get the sense that he was some kind of technician or counterpuncher, who looked good against fighters who came at him; but if a fighter made him come to them, he perhaps was open and vulnerable.

[janitor]

The famous solar plexus punch is in actual fact a left hand switch solar plexus punch, followed by a left uppercut to the chin. Was Corbett really knocked out by the solar plexus shot? Or was it the left Uppercut to the chin that Fitz says here.

Fitzsimmons told Jim Jeffries that it was not a blow to the solar plexus that stipped Corbett but a blow to the inner margin lowest rib where it passed over the heart.

[McGrain]

I read he was quite dismissive of the whole "solar plexus" thing and just called it a "bloody good punch to the body".

[GPater11093]

From what I've seen and read about Fitz, I get the sense that he was some kind of technician or counterpuncher, who looked good against fighters who came at him; but if a fighter made him come to them, he perhaps was open and vulnerable.

Thats how i see it, he leaves hismelf quite open when punching so since combination punching was rare in those days counter punching suited him well

I read he was quite dismissive of the whole "solar plexus" thing and just called it a "bloody good punch to the body".

:lol:

[guilalah]

Interesting that the first thing I saw was an elbow block. I've known people to be skeptical of oldtimers expertise in that area.

You can see Fitz interest in drawing in the opponent, adding his oppenents strength to his own. Bob was good at eliciting head-on-collisions.

Looking at the Johnson fight, Bob was very old and also had a very bad arm injury the day before the fight. My understanding ('The Ultimate Tough Guy', Carney) is that Bob insisted his injury be made public before the bout, so people would not bet on him on false pretenses; and that the first two men approached to referee the fight refused to have anything to do with it, in light of Fitzsimmons condition.

[My2Sense]

Fitz was ancient and had been considered "done" for some time before he fought Johnson. I'm surprised that fight would even enter the picture here.

[GPater11093]

I was at the boxing gym today and was learning afew of the parries from that book. Specifically the one where you hit the left lead up and counter with a right to the body

[janitor]

Fitz was ancient and had been considered "done" for some time before he fought Johnson. I'm surprised that fight would even enter the picture here.

Actualy some sections of the press gave Johnson a lot of credit for the win to his own considerable surprise.

[GPater11093]

Is there any fighter with more footage available you would consider has a resemblance to Fitzsimmons, i know Tony Canzoneri is often compared - any others?

[Boilermaker]

Fitz was ancient and had been considered "done" for some time before he fought Johnson. I'm surprised that fight would even enter the picture here.

For what it is worth, Fitz fought an exhibition with Jeanette a week before the Johnson bout, and Jeanette apparently had to ask him to ease up. This was before he allegedly broke or badly injured his arm. If this is true, then it was either an exceptional Johnson performance or the arm injury story is true. Looking at Fitz' result, this is an out of character performance and after this fight, Fitz took one year off (even from exhibitions) perhaps waiting for his arm to heal? and then he resumed with a first round KO. His next loss was a very creditable 12th round KO loss to World Title Challenger Bill Lang.