At what stage in Naz's career could he have beaten the Barrera he lost to.

[Guy]

I just watched the fight again and Naz just seemed to have his skills defused by Barrera and ran out of ideas.

Was this because Naz took his eye of the ball e.g; took it easy on the training, the success took away his hunger.

Was Barrera just a better schooled fighter with a clever game plan?

Or could Naz never have beaten the Barrera he lost too at any stage in his career?

Apologies for this thread that has probably been discussed on here one thousand times.:good

I'm sure some of the encyclopedic boxing minds on here can fill me in.

[Flea Man]

it pains me to say it but probably never. however it'd be harder for barrera as naz used more angles against, say,robinson, but it also has to be said that robison was average at best. if barrera can refrain from trading he probably wins. but at the same time you can rarely count out a man of hamed's two fisted power. sal sanchez, pep, arguello,armstrong, and a few morenotables, but not barrera imo :good

[lefthook31]

Never! Naz always had his shortcomings, thats why he was dropped quite a bit. Barrera just took him to school and exposed all his unorthodox mistakes. I knew it was going to happen, and Barrera matched him on a strength level. Naz faced some good fighters, but he seemed to always have a big edge over them in the power department, which got him out of trouble alot.

[Guy]

Thanks :cool:

[BUDW]

Never

[Outboxer]

Barrera would always be the favourite due to the style he used that night. Hamed of, say, the Robinson or Badillo fight would have been a lot more of a challenge, though.

[Barney]

That is a good honest query.

I think naz's greatest liability was his dependence on his natural ability which was immense. In that I see the reason he could not deal with the tactical assault of Barrera.

By figuring he could beat anyone he made it possible, by failing to fortifying his defenses, to be beaten.

[la-califa]

To be honest, the Barrera which fought McKinney & Jones could be hit & would be in trouble if caught cleanly. Marco learned alot from those losses(Jones, not McKinney) & reinvented himself to be a much improved fighter afterwards. Naz's fast hands & explosive power could have brought a sudden end to a fight with that version of Barrera very quickly.

[Barney]

To be honest, the Barrera which fought McKinney & Jones could be hit & would be in trouble if caught cleanly. Marco learned alot from those losses(Jones, not McKinney) & reinvented himself to be a much improved fighter afterwards. Naz's fast hands & explosive power could have brought a sudden end to a fight with that version of Barrera very quickly.

I think that is the difference I noted. Naz did not change. He needed to and did not for whatever reason.

Good point on Barrera.

[Guy]

Cheers for the opinions :good some interesting points there :nod

So it seems Naz never had to adapt before due to his success with what he had and when he had to adapt he didn't know how; but Barrera tweaked his style after losses and came back more versatile?

[la-califa]

Cheers for the opinions :good some interesting points there :nod

So it seems Naz never had to adapt before due to his success with what he had and when he had to adapt he didn't know how; but Barrera tweaked his style after losses and came back more versatile?Yes, IMO. Had Naz fought after Barrera he would also have been a different fighter, a little more wiser for the experience with Barrera.

[PowerPuncher]

To be honest, the Barrera which fought McKinney & Jones could be hit & would be in trouble if caught cleanly. Marco learned alot from those losses(Jones, not McKinney) & reinvented himself to be a much improved fighter afterwards. Naz's fast hands & explosive power could have brought a sudden end to a fight with that version of Barrera very quickly.

Great post, Naz himself was much better then, he stopped training as diligently post-97 too, if you watch the Naz-MAB documentary you'll see Naz was barely training at that stage. The early version of Hamed had better reactions, sharper, far more mobile with better movement. MAB became a far far more complete fighter post-Jones

So if Hamed replaced Junior Jones against MAB, he wins by KO, it would have been a war though and Naz probably goes down himself.

[Scratch]

He was a shadow of the talent he was under Ingle.

Before he flounced out he might have been able win or he might not - there's really no way of telling.

[Barney]

The proper care and training of a fighter is a skill.

[Bill Butcher]

I just watched the fight again and Naz just seemed to have his skills defused by Barrera and ran out of ideas.

Was this because Naz took his eye of the ball e.g; took it easy on the training, the success took away his hunger.

Was Barrera just a better schooled fighter with a clever game plan?

Or could Naz never have beaten the Barrera he lost too at any stage in his career?

Apologies for this thread that has probably been discussed on here one thousand times.:good

I'm sure some of the encyclopedic boxing minds on here can fill me in.

From 1995-97 or not at all, specifically the Steve Robinson fight, Barrera or Morales would have their work cut out vs that Naz, they would have to be on their game bigtime.

[lefthook31]

Great post, Naz himself was much better then, he stopped training as diligently post-97 too, if you watch the Naz-MAB documentary you'll see Naz was barely training at that stage. The early version of Hamed had better reactions, sharper, far more mobile with better movement. MAB became a far far more complete fighter post-Jones

So if Hamed replaced Junior Jones against MAB, he wins by KO, it would have been a war though and Naz probably goes down himself.
I dont know about your last paragraph. Those two fighters were solid boxer punchers with really nice straight righthands. I'd put Morales in that category too. I always thought Naz was a better fighter when he stayed with Ingle. Once he brought in Emanuel Steward and then Suarez, he kind of got away from some of things he did that were very effective. THose guys tried to make him more of a conventional fighter.
That being said guys like Morales Jones, and Barrera would have always given Naz a lot of problems. Naz didnt exactly go looking for a rematch with Barrera after the beating he took.

[DDA365]

Not sure, because Barrera fought such a great fight and a hard one for hamed hed always have trouble

around the 95-96 era of his career when he put a bit more emphasis on being elusive, he might have been able to win a decision by evening up the amount of punches being landed and landing a few big ones

I dont know if he would have ever actually put a gameplay into plan for that though

[My2Sense]

Never!

Never

The correct answers.

Barrera was coming up in weight and looked to be by far the more shopworn of the two, and was duly the heavy underdog as a result. Yet despite those disadvantages, he still clowned the guy's ass so badly that he never wanted any part of a rematch, or even wanted anything remotely resembling a decent fighter again.

[ripcity]

Barrera beat Hamed through tactacts not by being faster or more skilled. I describe Barrera's method trhat night as turing the boxing match into a fight than turning the fight back into a boxing match. I don't think Hamed beats Barrera using the method that he used.

[Rebel-INS]

Never.

[lefthook31]

Barrera beat Hamed through tactacts not by being faster or more skilled. I describe Barrera's method trhat night as turing the boxing match into a fight than turning the fight back into a boxing match. I don't think Hamed beats Barrera using the method that he used.
Hamed punched very hard. It took a fighter to wait that extra second to punch inside his wide open messed up style. Most fighters werent strong enough or didnt have the chin to do that. Once on an even playing field, it just took a guy with decent boxing skills, a sturdy chin and some power to expose the mess that Hamed was technically. He was fun to watch, but I knew once he moved up to face bigger guys, he was going to get exposed.

[DINAMITA]

I just watched the fight again and Naz just seemed to have his skills defused by Barrera and ran out of ideas.

Was this because Naz took his eye of the ball e.g; took it easy on the training, the success took away his hunger.

Was Barrera just a better schooled fighter with a clever game plan?

Or could Naz never have beaten the Barrera he lost too at any stage in his career?

Apologies for this thread that has probably been discussed on here one thousand times.:good

I'm sure some of the encyclopedic boxing minds on here can fill me in.

In my opinion, Barrera beats Naz on any night of Naz's career.

Naz had talent, he had natural power, speed and reflexes, he had a good chin - in short, he had it all on the physical side.

But the physical side is not enough to beat an elite technician like Barrera.

Naz never had the defence or the technical skills to compete at the very top level, hence the fact that he was soundly beaten the only time he mixed in that company.

Naz would always have a puncher's chance against MAB (or anyone else), but I do not believe he was ever accomplished enough to outfight someone of Barrera's calibre.

JMHO :good

[red cobra]

Never...though the first, slugger version of Barrera would have been a more exciting fight, and Naz would have had more of a chance, but that's like saying "what would have happened if Ali had fought Foreman all wrong and slugged it out with him instead of "rope-a-doping" him and outsmarting him?" That's what boxings all about...a superior fighter beating another guy through using the right tactics and style. Naz would have NEVER beaten MAB!

[Guy]

Thanks for all the opinions, interesting and insightful. :good

[raiderjay]

I would say never also. The similarities between Darchinyan and Naz are obvious, but the glaring difference is that Vic learned from his defeat and worked on his in-ring discipline and technique where Naz essentially gave up after losing his first fight.

I personally don't like Naz or Vic because of their boorish personalities, but do have to give a lot of credit to Vic for being smart enough and disciplined enough to change up what he was doing. On the flipside Naz has been relegated to a "not quite elite" level of fighter in most fight fans memories.

[klompton]

Naz was never in his wildest dreams going to beat a Barrera or a Morales or anyone else of that Calibre. He looked so great to his fans because he was fighting handpicked, faded opponents in his backyard. Hell, Barrera was handpicked because going into the first Morales fight everyone thought Barrera was damaged goods, then going into the Hamed fight no one thought Barrera could take the punishment he did against Morales and be the same. Instead Hamed got dominated and humiliated and his weak mental nature showed when he retired after one lackluster fight against a total unknown (in which Hamed was dropped). He still talks about making a comeback. What a joke. The UK promoters built him up and handed him over to HBO and they tried to build him up with nobodies, has beens, never weres, and fighters jumping up usually several divisions to face him and he still struggled to look good. Finally when he meets the first real challenge (Barrera who was also coming up in weight and thought to be ringworn) he couldnt even compete and retired. When could he have beaten Barrera? Never! Morales? Never! Marquez? Never! Pac? Never! Draw your own conclusions.

[lefthook31]

Naz was never in his wildest dreams going to beat a Barrera or a Morales or anyone else of that Calibre. He looked so great to his fans because he was fighting handpicked, faded opponents in his backyard. Hell, Barrera was handpicked because going into the first Morales fight everyone thought Barrera was damaged goods, then going into the Hamed fight no one thought Barrera could take the punishment he did against Morales and be the same. Instead Hamed got dominated and humiliated and his weak mental nature showed when he retired after one lackluster fight against a total unknown (in which Hamed was dropped). He still talks about making a comeback. What a joke. The UK promoters built him up and handed him over to HBO and they tried to build him up with nobodies, has beens, never weres, and fighters jumping up usually several divisions to face him and he still struggled to look good. Finally when he meets the first real challenge (Barrera who was also coming up in weight and thought to be ringworn) he couldnt even compete and retired. When could he have beaten Barrera? Never! Morales? Never! Marquez? Never! Pac? Never! Draw your own conclusions.
Tell us what you really think of Hamed?:lol: I tend to give him a little more credit in the skill department, but agree on most everything else. He did manage to beat some decent active fighters.

[DDA365]

Hamed punched very hard. It took a fighter to wait that extra second to punch inside his wide open messed up style. Most fighters werent strong enough or didnt have the chin to do that. Once on an even playing field, it just took a guy with decent boxing skills, a sturdy chin and some power to expose the mess that Hamed was technically. He was fun to watch, but I knew once he moved up to face bigger guys, he was going to get exposed.
I know what youre saying he did have big flaws that got worse over time and were going to be exploited one day

but i do think itd take a fighter of barreras calibre to do it, and then they would still have to fight a great fight

he did fight and beat all the champions in the division and although it wasnt the strongest, it shows that it was gonna take somebody very good to stop him

[lefthook31]

I would say never also. The similarities between Darchinyan and Naz are obvious, but the glaring difference is that Vic learned from his defeat and worked on his in-ring discipline and technique where Naz essentially gave up after losing his first fight.

I personally don't like Naz or Vic because of their boorish personalities, but do have to give a lot of credit to Vic for being smart enough and disciplined enough to change up what he was doing. On the flipside Naz has been relegated to a "not quite elite" level of fighter in most fight fans memories.
Based on Vic's last fight I dont think he learned a dam thing. These fighters that are freakishly strong for their weight class have such a huge advantage over their opponents. When they finally move up or come accross someone who has somewhat decent boxing ability, they become exposed. Darchinian is a real good example of this, so is Hamed. I kind of always though Manny Pacquiao was too, especially after the Marquez fight, but Roach has improved his defense tremendously, and he still has tremendous speed. Hamed and Darchinian have and had little to fall back on when their power wasnt getting the job done.

[mcvey]

I just watched the fight again and Naz just seemed to have his skills defused by Barrera and ran out of ideas.

Was this because Naz took his eye of the ball e.g; took it easy on the training, the success took away his hunger.

Was Barrera just a better schooled fighter with a clever game plan?

Or could Naz never have beaten the Barrera he lost too at any stage in his career?

Apologies for this thread that has probably been discussed on here one thousand times.:good

I'm sure some of the encyclopedic boxing minds on here can fill me in.

This was one fight I particulalrly enjoyed, I vehemently dislike Hamed
.Apart from winning a few quid it was nice to see the preening ,conceited little shit get taken to school.
I can conceive of no period when Hamed would beat MAB .

[PowerPuncher]

I dont know about your last paragraph. Those two fighters were solid boxer punchers with really nice straight righthands. I'd put Morales in that category too. I always thought Naz was a better fighter when he stayed with Ingle. Once he brought in Emanuel Steward and then Suarez, he kind of got away from some of things he did that were very effective. THose guys tried to make him more of a conventional fighter.
That being said guys like Morales Jones, and Barrera would have always given Naz a lot of problems. Naz didnt exactly go looking for a rematch with Barrera after the beating he took.

Morales and Junior Jones arent half as defensively skilled as Barrera though and would walk on to 1 of Naz's hayemakers. Morales is also quite a light hitter compared to Barrera let alone Naz. Morales has a great chin but f Hamed was landing his best shots its getting cracked imo

Naz under Ingle certainly would have stuck to utilisising more movement and head movement and crazy angles. Post Ingle he became flat footed. Its a pity Naz didnt let HErol Bomber Graham train him who himself invented the Ingle style and trained with Naz in the early days

[mcvey]

Naz was never in his wildest dreams going to beat a Barrera or a Morales or anyone else of that Calibre. He looked so great to his fans because he was fighting handpicked, faded opponents in his backyard. Hell, Barrera was handpicked because going into the first Morales fight everyone thought Barrera was damaged goods, then going into the Hamed fight no one thought Barrera could take the punishment he did against Morales and be the same. Instead Hamed got dominated and humiliated and his weak mental nature showed when he retired after one lackluster fight against a total unknown (in which Hamed was dropped). He still talks about making a comeback. What a joke. The UK promoters built him up and handed him over to HBO and they tried to build him up with nobodies, has beens, never weres, and fighters jumping up usually several divisions to face him and he still struggled to look good. Finally when he meets the first real challenge (Barrera who was also coming up in weight and thought to be ringworn) he couldnt even compete and retired. When could he have beaten Barrera? Never! Morales? Never! Marquez? Never! Pac? Never! Draw your own conclusions.

Totally agree :good

[red cobra]

The MAB=Hamed fight remains one of my favorites and one of the most aesthetically satisfying fights in all of boxing history..it's a mshame it wasn;t for 15 rounds instead of 12 so that there could have been 3 more rounds of the boxing clinic/humiliation meted out to Hamed...he really had it coming...and it made a huge Mab fan out of me...what a boxer and what a performance!!

[Neverchair]

Naz was far too reliant on his speed and power giving defence a back seat.

In the majority of his fights it was enough to pull off great wins but when he started to fight real world class opponents his total lack of guard meant he got hit a lot.

Barrera's defence was just too tight and he seemed to be able to pick Naz off at will.

I think Naz believed his own hype far too much by the time he met Barrera and felt he could beat top opposition with his speed and power alone.

He should have learned from the Kevin Kelley fight but he was just too confident in his own abilities.

[lefthook31]

Morales and Junior Jones arent half as defensively skilled as Barrera though and would walk on to 1 of Naz's hayemakers. Morales is also quite a light hitter compared to Barrera let alone Naz. Morales has a great chin but f Hamed was landing his best shots its getting cracked imo

Naz under Ingle certainly would have stuck to utilisising more movement and head movement and crazy angles. Post Ingle he became flat footed. Its a pity Naz didnt let HErol Bomber Graham train him who himself invented the Ingle style and trained with Naz in the early days
They possessed something thats the great equalizer to someone with wide open style, and thats a good straight right hand. That was the punch that did Barrera in against Jones. Jones had a weak chin, but he could crack with the righthand.

[cotto20]

I don't know if he ever could of beat Barrera.

From when Naz got his world title, he just declined from there on out. He did less traning between fights, fought less often, gave up roadwork, ignored his trainer, and started eating more and putting huge amounts of weight on in between fights, and became more cocky.

He also became KO crazy and forgot other things such as defence, footwork, and timing. The fight he was the most dedicated for and trained the hardest for was probaly when he fought for the European title against Vincenzo Belcastro. Belcastro had much more experience over the 11-0 Hamed, and some thought Frank ****** had over matched Naz.

Naz completly dominated him from start to finish, even dropping the extremely durable Belcastro twice.

[Clinton]

To be honest, the Barrera which fought McKinney & Jones could be hit & would be in trouble if caught cleanly. Marco learned alot from those losses(Jones, not McKinney) & reinvented himself to be a much improved fighter afterwards. Naz's fast hands & explosive power could have brought a sudden end to a fight with that version of Barrera very quickly.
He was also a bantamweight when he fought those 2.

[JudgeDredd]

As long as he's got a hole in his arse he'd never beat Barerra, He was easy pickings for a good solid pro, always was.

[WhataRock]

Naz is a live chance of JJ'in Barrera at just about any point.

A younger, less polished MAB especially.

Its just very unlikely more often then not.

[red cobra]

Naz may have had a chance with MAB about 6 months before Barrera transformed himself into a boxer...but never post Junior Jones.

[cotto20]

Interesting off note. Hamed was ringside for the first Barerra/Jones fight. Naz like most was assuming that Barrera was going to win, and then the two would face of in a battle of the unbeatens and create one of the biggest little men fights in history.

But Jones spoiled those plans..........

[essexboy]

As long as he's got a hole in his arse he'd never beat Barerra, He was easy pickings for a good solid pro, always was.

He beat every solid pro he fought in his career. The only guy who beat him was a future hall of famer and probable ATG.

[Boro chris]

The MAB that got beaten twice by Jones vs the best version of Naz? Yeah. I'd give Naz a decent chance.
Prime for prime you have to say Mab was a level above however.

Still a lot of posters who allow their personal dislike of Naz (and lets be honest, he was/is a monumental cunt) to cloud their judgement.

[mcvey]

I just watched the fight again and Naz just seemed to have his skills defused by Barrera and ran out of ideas.

Was this because Naz took his eye of the ball e.g; took it easy on the training, the success took away his hunger.

Was Barrera just a better schooled fighter with a clever game plan?

Or could Naz never have beaten the Barrera he lost too at any stage in his career?

Apologies for this thread that has probably been discussed on here one thousand times.:good

I'm sure some of the encyclopedic boxing minds on here can fill me in.
The Hamed of then might have a chance with the Barrera of today.

[HyperBone]

I just watched the fight again and Naz just seemed to have his skills defused by Barrera and ran out of ideas.

Was this because Naz took his eye of the ball e.g; took it easy on the training, the success took away his hunger.

Was Barrera just a better schooled fighter with a clever game plan?

Or could Naz never have beaten the Barrera he lost too at any stage in his career?

Apologies for this thread that has probably been discussed on here one thousand times.:good

I'm sure some of the encyclopedic boxing minds on here can fill me in.

I dont think he can beat any 'boxer puncher' of barrera (not the younger one), cause barrera's style is just too tailor made for him. barrera's was good enough to follow him all over the ring for any counterpunching opportunities, nas, despite being awkward, just cant seem to get past him.

[Bill Butcher]

At what stage in Naz's career could he have beaten the Barrera he lost to.

Answer - Probaly none as this was peak Barrera but the Naz that fought Steve Robinson would have did an awful lot better IMO & very well might have won.

[Azania]

Great thread fellas...Gotta admit that Naz had very little chance against post-junior Jones Barrera...The man was simply too polished for a reckless slugger like Nas.

Even the pre-Jones Barrera is a toss-up IMO...slightly leaning towards Barrera...if the Mckinney Barrera showed tho'..Nas would mos def have a great chance to stop him..provided he could take the heat Barrera would bring early.

That's one of most all-time favourites this fight.Made me a Barrera fan forever...the way he handled that fight...I call it measured-controled-slow burning-aggression...Closed the show on Nas forever.