Classic thoughts on the JMM-PBF fight...

[Morrissey]

Overall, what do you think of this fight? A circus ala Oscar vs Pac (pre-fight that is) or a legitimate, competitive fight between two elite P4P fighters?

And who do you see winning this one? Will it be a hard-fought battle? Or an easy win for Mayweather?

How do you see the fight? What would be the deciding factors?

Appreciate your thoughts and insights.

[McGrain]

Overall, what do you think of this fight? A circus ala Oscar vs Pac (pre-fight that is) or a legitimate, competitive fight between two elite P4P fighters?

It's neither one of these things.

Marquez is too flat out tough to be discredited as an opponent, but his status as a top man p4p is destroyed by the weight the fight will be contested at - Marquez has no business above 135, basically.

And who do you see winning this one? Will it be a hard-fought battle? Or an easy win for Mayweather?

How do you see the fight? What would be the deciding factors?.

Mayweather is bigger, faster, stronger, hits harder, has a better defence and has a style advantage. These will be the deciding factors.

The reason Marquez has a chance are a) his inate tougness and b) his ability to adjust during a fight, to improve (timing, tactics, reads, punch selection) during a fight. He excells at this if Mayweather has a weakness previously unheralded, or if he has a new one caused by the layoff, Marquez is the man to find it.

Whether it matters or not is different of course...Marquez is not going to KO Mayweather, so he needs to make any advantage work for him consistantly from no later than the third round. That's what I call a longshot.

So naturally, the only sensible pick is Mayweather, probably by way of a wide decision.

[Morrissey]

It's neither one of these things.

Marquez is too flat out tough to be discredited as an opponent, but his status as a top man p4p is destroyed by the weight the fight will be contested at - Marquez has no business above 135, basically.



Mayweather is bigger, faster, stronger, hits harder, has a better defence and has a style advantage. These will be the deciding factors.

The reason Marquez has a chance are a) his inate tougness and b) his ability to adjust during a fight, to improve (timing, tactics, reads, punch selection) during a fight. He excells at this if Mayweather has a weakness previously unheralded, or if he has a new one caused by the layoff, Marquez is the man to find it.

Whether it matters or not is different of course...Marquez is not going to KO Mayweather, so he needs to make any advantage work for him consistantly from no later than the third round. That's what I call a longshot.

So naturally, the only sensible pick is Mayweather, probably by way of a wide decision.

As usual, nice observation from you.:good

Anyway, I would still like to see this fight. You're correct, JMM, inspite of all his disavantages, will still give it a best try, and it is something I am looking forward to.

[McGrain]

I'm really looking forwards to it. As a big Marquez fan i'm living more on hope than expectation, but it'll be a buzzing night.

[WhataRock]

IMO Floyd would have to be hella rusty and would have had to fallen dramatically from grace for this fight to even be close.

Not saying it wont be competitive though..just reckon Marquez will lose this one quite clear.

[ChrisPontius]

It's neither one of these things.

Marquez is too flat out tough to be discredited as an opponent, but his status as a top man p4p is destroyed by the weight the fight will be contested at - Marquez has no business above 135, basically.



Mayweather is bigger, faster, stronger, hits harder, has a better defence and has a style advantage. These will be the deciding factors.

The reason Marquez has a chance are a) his inate tougness and b) his ability to adjust during a fight, to improve (timing, tactics, reads, punch selection) during a fight. He excells at this if Mayweather has a weakness previously unheralded, or if he has a new one caused by the layoff, Marquez is the man to find it.

Whether it matters or not is different of course...Marquez is not going to KO Mayweather, so he needs to make any advantage work for him consistantly from no later than the third round. That's what I call a longshot.

So naturally, the only sensible pick is Mayweather, probably by way of a wide decision.

In addition to that, another reason Marquez can win is because Mayweather, for the first time since he was in junior high, has been out of the ring for more than two years, had an injury recently and he looked like he aged 10 years during that short layoff. Starting to look like his father all of a sudden, and in a bad way.

Marquez isn't exactly young either though. He still looked great against Diaz, but that was a very hard fight and might have taken something out of him.

I'm really looking forward to this fight.

[Flea Man]

I think Floyd will stop Marquez but if anyone's gonna do it it'll be Juan.

he can adjust throughout the fight and win a tight decision in my mind............I really hope so anyway, I'm a massive Marquez fan.

[GDG]

Nobody has an easy night with Marquez!!!

Much is being made of the weight but we don't know if it will bother Marquez or not yet...many were saying Pac was too small for DLH and Hatton but he adjusted.

Marquez is as smart and wily a boxer as they come, so I don't want to write him off just yet. Add to that the casual boxing fan probably doesn't know a great deal about Marquez outside of Mexico and this fight offers him his last real chance to hit the big time!!!

How would you guys see this fight going stylistically if the weight wasn't an issue?? Say the Floyd of the Corrales fight Vs the Marquez of Pac2.

Floyd has yet to prove he's particularly great above 135 IMO.

[Bill Butcher]

Overall, what do you think of this fight? A circus ala Oscar vs Pac (pre-fight that is) or a legitimate, competitive fight between two elite P4P fighters?

And who do you see winning this one? Will it be a hard-fought battle? Or an easy win for Mayweather?

How do you see the fight? What would be the deciding factors?

Appreciate your thoughts and insights.

Ive learned that no fight between 2 top p4pers is already decided before it even happens, I think this is going to be a competitive fight, FMJ has been off for 2 yrs, JMM is on great form & is DESPERATE for a big p4p win as he feels he was wronged by the judges in both Pac fights, beating Mayweather will all but guarantee a 3rd Pac fight & the right to be called no1 p4p.

I still think its hard to pick against FMJ in basically any fight from 147 downwards, I include Marquez in that, as good as JMM is, Mayweather is technically better, he hits harder, is faster & has a far superior defence & movement... I feel the skills of Mayweather will give him a hard fought pts win but with this layoff, you just never know.

This is a great fight IMO, I for one am really looking forward to it, anyone who isnt can go suck a dick while watching cricket.

:good

[Bill Butcher]

How would you guys see this fight going stylistically if the weight wasn't an issue?? Say the Floyd of the Corrales fight Vs the Marquez of Pac2.

Mayweather would wipe the floor with him, Marquez would have very very little chance in that one IMO in all seriousness.

:good

[teeto]

I don't see Marquez winning, but he poseeses that great attribute that is massive for him, his formidable will to win. When a great fighter posesses this trait in his warrior's soul, who knows what can happen?

It seems logical that a boxer who doesn't give many opportunities for his opponent to counter is bad for Juan Manuel, however things don't always seem to work out the way us Classico's might expect. A lot of the come forward fighters have had Marquez in trouble, expoliting what is not the finest of defences. It is interesting to note though, that because of his very great punching in bunching countering style, he prevails anyway. I put it down more so to that will to win though, personally.

Mayweather can adapt so well though, when he had a stationary target in Gatti, look what he did, rather than play the waiting game it was set up the guy and clinically disect him in sickening fashion. I can see some similar type of approach from him at points throughout thia fight, if Marquez is being witty, which he likely will. I don't see that playing out the same way as it did with Gatti though.

Mayweather to win, multi-dimensional thinking and acting it out does it for him.

What about the lay off though? I know it's not too long, but a lay off it is, it seems crazy to think of a great fighter in our time being affectec by a lay off, but we read about it all the time in the history books, it's a real scenario.

[jc]

JMM is a great fighter but this is a bad match for him. I dont think he has the style nor the size to beat PBF. Floyd on pts.

[lefthook31]

Marquez is just too small. Hes going to have to outwork Floyd, which is possible, but I see Floyd just hanging inside and potshotting Marquez until he hurts him and finishes him.
Shake up in the Mayweather camp could create some problems as well. Looks like Roger will be going to prison for a long time with that he did over the weekend. Will be interesting to see if Floyd puts his father back in his corner.

[jont]

unless the layoff has seriously affected Mayweather's abilitities and speed...the fight should be easy for him....this is one superfight that I have no interest in and no excitement felt from the very first day I heard of the matchup.... it seems that matching name fighters against each other does not always mean they are the most competitive or most exciting bouts to see.. that said...all fights are fought in the ring and I hope this fight while on paper seems a mismatch will prove me wrong and produce a good matchup

[lefthook31]

unless the layoff has seriously affected Mayweather's abilitities and speed...the fight should be easy for him....this is one superfight that I have no interest in and no excitement felt from the very first day I heard of the matchup.... it seems that matching name fighters against each other does not always mean they are the most competitive or most exciting bouts to see.. that said...all fights are fought in the ring and I hope this fight while on paper seems a mismatch will prove me wrong and produce a good matchup
I feel the same way about not getting excited to see it. That being said, Floyds layoff, if hes only doing this for money and now all the drama surrounding his uncle makes it a little more interesting. Not enough to buy it though.

[PowerPuncher]

Marquez is being written off, hes a beautiful technical puncher, natural fighter, great jab and right and countering skills. He is from a sheer technical standpoint perhaps the best fighter Mayweather has faced. Defensively he often drops his right hand, which is a big weakness in his game.

Marquez is smaller but not by that much, they started 4lbs apart and at 1stage were at the same weight, height/reach is close and Mayweather is a smaller Welter. Marquez can hurt Mayweather by timing flush shots on the button with speed and precision that Mayweather won't be too used to and a flush shot from Marquez is better than missed/grazed shots from DLH/Hatton

We haven't seen Mayweather against a smaller weaker man in sometime, people will say Hatton but Hatton outweighed him on the night and is naturally stronger/stockier than FMJ. This may well mean FMJ walks JMM down and becomes far more offensive, JMM should have the power to gain Floyd's respect but I still would expect Floyd to be far more offensive than we are used to seeing, expect something similar to perhaps his Corley/Mitchell/Gatti/Corrales fights

Mayweather has been out for 2years just had his ribs broken in sparring. Mayweather will be rustier, older, slower with less stamina and movement. However his brittle hands and bad shoulder may have healed and this means he will be a bigger puncher than prior to his lay off.

In terms of styles Mayweather has the better speed and exploit JMM's defense frailties such as his tendency to drop his right hand, lead left hooks and check hooks will be the order of the day. JMM seems convinced Mayweather will be weak to the body and expect him to throw jabs and right hands to the body. Marquez's jab and 1-2 is the key weapon to try to neutralise Floyd's speed. Mayweather's faster feet and hands may well see him counter allot of JMMs jabs, 1-2s and lead rights. It is also hard to land a jab on FMJ, despite the myth DLH rarely landed that punch but Marquez is a sharper puncher and is harder to read than Oscar. The most similar opponent Marquez faced to FMJ is Norwood, who he lost too. He also had allot of trouble with the more skilled operators he faced like John, Casa and MAB. FMJ is better than the lot and JMM just doesn't have the skill to beat him even if the weight was equal.

Bottom line JMM will put up a good fight but Mayweather is the better boxer, with more speed and the better defense. He is also bigger and stronger and will rain clean shots and yes suprisingly big shots that JMM isn't used to taking and not in that quantity. JMM will have his moments and will land better shots than Hatton/DLH managed but less of them and Floyd will walk him down and stop him

FMJ by mid-rounds stoppage

[lefthook31]

When you look at Floyds opponents and Marquez opponents, the size difference is huge. Pac proved he can hang with the bigger men, but he's physically a lot stronger in my opinion, so thats really the only question I have about Marquez. Hes a good technical fighter, but is that good enough for a fighter like FLoyd? Hes not going to have a guy coming forward the entire time. Hes going to have to force the pace all the while trying to land on a very elusive target. Can he force enough of a high pace on Mayweather while taking a lot of clean counters in return? Floyds been off, but his style wont change much.

[Morrissey]

Appreciated your thoughts guys.

Anyway, I am interested to know why people seem to think that this is such a stylistic mismatch in favor of PBF.

[lefthook31]

Because you have a smaller technically sound fighter, fighting a bigger stronger technically sound fighter with a good chin, great speed and excellent counterpunching ability.
I think the general consensus feels Floyd will be beaten by a guy who can just overwhelm him and outstrength him to negate his speed. Castillo kind of laid that out in the first fight, and ODLH to some extent. Just dont think JMM can do that.

[Robbi]

Mayweather will win. Probably via late TKO.

[Morrissey]

Because you have a smaller technically sound fighter, fighting a bigger stronger technically sound fighter with a good chin, great speed and excellent counterpunching ability.
I think the general consensus feels Floyd will be beaten by a guy who can just overwhelm him and outstrength him to negate his speed. Castillo kind of laid that out in the first fight, and ODLH to some extent. Just dont think JMM can do that.



I agree with your assessment of the fight, though, don't you think in the second fight, where Mayweather supposedly was no longer injured, he won decisively?

[rekcutnevets]

Pontius, you're right about Mayweather's looks. I've stated for a while that I feel sorry for him, he is doomed for ugliness.

This is an interesting fight. Mayweather has all of the physical advantages, but I don't think that he can stand in front of Marquez. I believe Marquez will tear him apart up close. Marquez will jab, and attack, Mayweather's body to counter his shoulder roll defense. Mayweather may have success on the inside too, but I don't believe he can match Marquez' work rate. Mayweather is going to have to move to beat the smaller fighter.

[lefthook31]

I agree with your assessment of the fight, though, don't you think in the second fight, where Mayweather supposedly was no longer injured, he won decisively?
Yes I do, but I still think thats really the only way to beat Floyd. Maybe Floyd came into that fight a little overconfident the first time and wasnt prepared to fight at a super fast paced, but it still laid a blueprint of how someone can beat Floyd. Hes too smart to be outboxed and outslicked. You saw Judah had a little success making Floyd lead a little but Floyd figured that out really quick.
Oscar just came at him and punched at anything he could. Hatton is just technically so poor, he was too easy to counterpunch for Floyd.

[The Wanderer]

I remember someone talking about this fight at some point last year, and I praised Marquez a lot but also basically wrote him off. Both are counterpunchers with great technique, but Floyd has the faster hands and feet, better movement, a tight defense and a good chin. Therefore, it seemed to me that Marquez was beat because he would be going against an opponent whose best qualities were similar to his own, but who was better at it.

Now, I have my doubts.

There are a couple of reasons for that which include: Floyd doesn't seem as hungry as Marquez, the layoff, Floyd's injuries, (both the new ones and old ones like to his hands and shoulder) the possibility that Floyd is looking past Marquez/underestimating him, etc.

Also, the more I've studied Marquez' career the more I see that he has a tremendous talent for getting through tough defenses, he can find ways to counter speedy opponents, (as an aside, I think Marquez couldn't quite handle it when Pacquiao pushed his speed up to 100% and went absolutely balls out, but anything below that Marquez found a way to deal with and counter) he consistently throws with pinpoint accuracy, and, most importantly, he adapts to and finds weaknesses in whatever fighter he faces. (the only problem here is Floyd tends to do the same).

Mayweather should be favored and will most likely win, but Marquez is very much a live underdog and there is a very good chance Marquez that Marquez may outwork Mayweather and penetrate his defense, taking Mayweather into deep waters. Then it'll be up to Mayweather to see if he can still dig deep and find a way to win.

Another concern I have is about Marquez. I have a very strong feeling that Marquez only has one or two top notch fights left in him. I hope he still has that and more, but if he turns out to have less than that... maybe the Diaz fight would go down as his last great effort.

[dpw417]

I think Marquez can shock the world! Will break it down closer to fight time.

[PbP Bacon]

Kind of hard to tell,

On one side, logic tells me that Mayweather should win. Too many physical advantages stacked on his side. And, let's face it, Mayweather also has the tecnical skills to deal with Marquez handily.

Sure, Marquez is a warrior and a very good fighter, but he is clearly the underdog here.

Perhaps, as some posters stated, Mayweather's skills and physical condition have declined enough to give Marquez an opportunity, but I am not betting my house on it :)

[Morrissey]

Yes I do, but I still think thats really the only way to beat Floyd. Maybe Floyd came into that fight a little overconfident the first time and wasnt prepared to fight at a super fast paced, but it still laid a blueprint of how someone can beat Floyd. Hes too smart to be outboxed and outslicked. You saw Judah had a little success making Floyd lead a little but Floyd figured that out really quick.
Oscar just came at him and punched at anything he could. Hatton is just technically so poor, he was too easy to counterpunch for Floyd.

I think Oscar was just a tad slower compared to Mayweather that is why he was not able to bullied him a lot, which makes me feel that at this time, only Cotto, with his size, power and considerable quickness, can pressure Mayweather effectively, or Paul Williams, but who is obviously, no longer a welterweight.

[Robot16]

I think it may play out like PBF Vs enaro Hernandez.
Also imo Marquez has taken punishment in his career, and i feel it may be catching up to him.
In the Diaz fight he tooks alot of punches.

Imo Floyed shall win wide.

[red cobra]

It's neither one of these things.

Marquez is too flat out tough to be discredited as an opponent, but his status as a top man p4p is destroyed by the weight the fight will be contested at - Marquez has no business above 135, basically.



Mayweather is bigger, faster, stronger, hits harder, has a better defence and has a style advantage. These will be the deciding factors.

The reason Marquez has a chance are a) his inate tougness and b) his ability to adjust during a fight, to improve (timing, tactics, reads, punch selection) during a fight. He excells at this if Mayweather has a weakness previously unheralded, or if he has a new one caused by the layoff, Marquez is the man to find it.

Whether it matters or not is different of course...Marquez is not going to KO Mayweather, so he needs to make any advantage work for him consistantly from no later than the third round. That's what I call a longshot.

So naturally, the only sensible pick is Mayweather, probably by way of a wide decision.
Yes, the only possible scenario I have for this fight is a big, at least a decisive decision victory for the asshole Mayweather..the only surprise in all this is if anyone makes a bid deal about this...what the hell else can happen in this fight...a knockdown for Mayweather? Actually I care so little for Mayweather that I'm rather disinterested in him and this fight...I'll only care about a fight with him in it when he fights Pacman.

[D-MAC]

Style-wise and weight-wise its Floyd's fight to lose.

Saying that, I'd love to see Marquez pull out the win. I just can't see how he can though.

[he grant]

Floyd should decision him but the classic question comes up; has Floyd's inactivity at his current age significantly effected him? We will see. If Floyd expects an easy fight he will be surprised. I wish it were a 15 rounder, I'd give Marquez a hell of a shot. I give him one anyway.

[Axl_Nose]

Your dealing with two different classifications of fighter here ..
Marquez is a brilliant text book fighter that could have a shot at beating anybody at 130 and possibly 135, he's a sensational fighter .. But like it or not Floyd Mayweather has the skills and the talent to go in with anybody in the history of boxing in his weight divisions and probably win ..
He isnt a 147 fighter but any weight lower than this and he belongs in the company of anybody that has ever fought ..
The pubic dont like Mayweather's attitude but it shouldnt cloud the fact that along with Jones Jr, he's the best fighter since Ray Leonard and in the the top 5 pfp of the last 40 years. Its a little controversial but i actually think that Mayweather is a better version of Whitaker and im a huge fan of Pernell ....

JMM is a top fighter but he's going in against a 'True' great and i dont give him any chance providing Mayweather is somewere like he was when he retired .... This is a set-up fight for Pac, and to be honest i dont give Pac any chance to beat Mayweather either, considering how much of a problem Pac has with boxers .. Hell, i'd pick Guzman over Pac in a heartbeat ....

[mightyd40]

fortunately for boxing fans marquez is gonna come and try his hardest to win.... unfortunately for marquez, mayweather is a bigger, stronger, better fighter than he is. i see mayweather by wide decision. either way there are more exciting fights to be made in the future at boxings best division. i am excited