Greb vs Calzaghe

[radab]

just for you McGrain :good

[cross_trainer]

This...would be nasty.

For extra giggles, add 1920's gloves, rules, and refs (goodbye, neutral corner rule!)

[GPater11093]

This...would be nasty.

For extra giggles, add 1920's gloves, rules, and refs (goodbye, neutral corner rule!)

you sadist

you cant hate greb that much :good

[McGrain]

Greb should be favoured, but Calzaghe has a nasty style for him and is bigger.

1 - Greb is probably more skilled at making the opponent lead.

2 - Greb is the more proven in terms of heart.

[cross_trainer]

Just to be obnoxious, though...

HMA6Pd6tT3Q

wUiAquXozLM

[McGrain]

Just to be obnoxious, though...]

:lol:

['Ben']

Fucking hell Radab, what's all this Greb obsession all about?

[McGrain]

Fucking hell Radab, what's all this Greb obsession all about?

A better question is why don't YOU have one?

['Ben']

Never even seen you on the claassic before and now you do a load of them about the same bloke in one day!:lol:

[TheGreatA]

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['Ben']

A better question is why don't YOU have one?


What.... have a Greb obsession you mean?

[McGrain]

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:lol:

That just makes him look so shit.

[GPater11093]

What.... have a Greb obsession you mean?

no, a penis

[McGrain]

What.... have a Greb obsession you mean?

Yeah.

[janitor]

For extra giggles, add 1920's gloves, rules, and refs (goodbye, neutral corner rule!)

I think the 1920s gloves would make Calzaghes position impossible due to his hands.

Expect him to have a Jimmy Braddock type resume with a lot of losses fighting in this era.

['Ben']

no, a penis


If you want talk about penis's get back to your self confessing meat loving ways on the choi thread sissy boy.:lol: Remember you still didn't answer my question on how you like your sausages done.:nono...second thoughts.... I don't want to know.:blood

['Ben']

Yeah.


Explain to me why and I just might do....

[GPater11093]

If you want talk about penis's get back to your self confessing meat loving ways on the choi thread sissy boy.:lol: Remember you still didn't answer my question on how you like your sausages done.:nono...second thoughts.... I don't want to know.:blood

wow dont get off topic McGrain gets angry

[McGrain]

Only in my own threads though. You can talk shit in other peoples.

[GPater11093]

Only in my own threads though. You can talk shit in other peoples.

:lol:

to be fair i have stopped abit, going off topic.

[radab]

Never even seen you on the claassic before and now you do a load of them about the same bloke in one day!:lol:





Yeah i'm a stranger to these parts, but the General's not exactly the place to bring up Greb

He's me and McGrain's fighter of the month

Can't get enough of him (Greb not McGrain)

:bbb

[Bill Butcher]

From what Ive read on Greb, he should be favoured strongly but we have no footage & to me, no footage = no comment.

[Bill Butcher]

:lol:

That just makes him look so shit.

I believe that was the intention ;)

[mcvey]

just for you McGrain :good

GREB GREB GREB, different class.:good

[PowerPuncher]

Calzaghe may well have had a more sophisticated skill set, then again he may not and I can't really tell without seeing Greb fight, it would be stupid to make a guess either way. If Greb fights the way he spars he gets schooled, he may well fight allot better than that though.

Calzaghe is the bigger man, probably faster and seemingly in better condition.

Tales of Greb drinking every night and his only real training was actually fighting doesn't help my opinion that the sport was inferior in the 20s

[TheGreatA]

Calzaghe may well have had a more sophisticated skill set, then again he may not and I can't really tell without seeing Greb fight, it would be stupid to make a guess either way. If Greb fights the way he spars he gets schooled, he may well fight allot better than that though.

Calzaghe is the bigger man, probably faster and seemingly in better condition.

Tales of Greb drinking every night and his only real training was actually fighting doesn't help my opinion that the sport was inferior in the 20s

It's untrue. In fact Greb was a very dedicated trainer but liked to joke around that he was in terrible shape to get people to fight him.

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[janitor]

Tales of Greb drinking every night and his only real training was actually fighting doesn't help my opinion that the sport was inferior in the 20s

There is a lot of fable in the stories about Greb's training habbits and lifestyle outside the ring.

His manager claimed after his death that he was rigorous in his training habits and never drank while in training.

I guess the legends surrounding Greb took on a life of their own after his death.

In terms of style Calzaghe is probably the fighter who most closley approximates Greb in regent years.

[janitor]

Here is n article published 20 years after Greb's death in which asociates are interviewd on his lifestyle and training habbits:

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Harry Greb, 'Greatest Fighter,' Died in East 20 Years Ago Today

Harry's Best Battle Was Night He Whipped Gibbons, Albacker Says

By LES BIEDERMAN

Twenty years ago today--Oct. 22, 1926--when word came over the wires that Harry Greb had died on the operating table in an Atlantic City hospital, almost every Pittsburgher felt he had suffered a deep personal loss.

Greb belonged to the people more than any other pittsburgh fighter. Even today, no fight discussion is complete without mention of Harry Greb, "greatest fighter who ever lived," as many fans call him.

"The Pittsburgh Windmill" died long before his time. He was 32. He had gone to Atlantic City to have a simple nose operation. He breathed his last on that operation table.

It was a shocked and subdued sports world that recieved the news. It was almost unbelievable. Greb was a legend--both in and out of the ring.

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Greb Never Drank Liquor
Two of his closest friends were Bernard (Happy) Albacker, who grew up with him and was with him almost constantly, and Cuddy DeMarco, like Greb, a great fighter, and Greb's stablemate.

Albacker knew Greb inside out. "I was probably as close to greb as any person," Albacker related. "I saw him in practically all of his fights and rarely left him at any time.

"Greb never drank a drop of liquor. He would drink an occasional bottle of ale to build up his strength after trying to make weight or sometimes a glass of champagne, but never the hard stuff.

"You might have heard stories of Greb sitting in a nightclub roaring drunk. But not Harry. He would either dump his drinks under the table, spill them or pass them to others at the table. He liked to give off the impression that he was 'tight.'

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Always in Shape for Fight
"Harry always was in shape for a fight and he never cared who his opponent was. And he never failed to train religiously for a fight, either. He was in the gym every day.

"I think Greb's best fight was the night he licked Tommy Gibbons in Old Madison Square Garden. Gibbons was a 12-5 favorite that night but Harry gave him the beating of his life.

"I'd say Greb's toughest fight was with Jeff Smith in 1922. And that was the night Greb became blinded in his right eye. "Smith butted him coming out of a clinch and that was it. Greb carried the secret of his one eye to his grave, except for a few persons.

"He won the middleweight title from Johnny Wilson with one eye. He beat Mickey Walker in that big fight in New York with one eye. But Greb never fought with a glass eye.

"Greb was a sensitive fellow about his appearance. He was always carefully groomed and usually slicked down his hair with vaselline before he entired the ring. And if his opponent ever mussed up Harry's hair, he was like a wildman. He didn't care about punches or butts or thumbs, but that mussed up hair drove him nuts.

Never Bet on Himself
"Greb never bet a nickel on himself in any of his fights. He'd bet more on a handball game or a game of casino than anything else. But he did win a lot of money when Gene Tunney won the heavyweight title from Jack Dempsey.

"Greb's one ambition always was to get Dempsey into a ring, but Jack Kearns wouldn't ever allow Greb near the training camp, after his first experiance with Harry.

"His five fights with Tunney were pips. Greb always thought the first four Tunney fights were easy until the last one in Cleveland, when Tunney won.

"They both got under the shower and Greb said to tunney: 'You not only beat the hell out of me tonight but you hurt me. You can't miss as the next heavyweight champion.'

'A Soft Touch'
"Harry was always a soft touch for show people and was very good to the Catholic church. He rarely came back to Pittsburgh after a fight but that he didn't stop in to see father Bonaventure at the Immaculate Conception Church and leave a donation to the church.

"I used to be a pretty good two-fisted drinker in my time. But the day Greb died, I turned over a new leaf. I haven't had a drink for 20 years."

DeMarco spent three years--from 1923 until 1926--as Greb's stablemate and they were three years he'll never forget.
"I fought with Harry in the gym and he was just as tough as in the ring," DeMarco says in admiration.

Never Let Up
"He was really superhuman. He always wanted me to work out with him to improve his speed. He treated me like he'd treat any opponent. He never knew what it was to let up.

"Before I went with red mason, who handled both Greb and me, I had had about 150 fights and never suffered a scratch. But Greb gave me the works. He mussed up my nose and he gave me my cauliflower ear.

"In the ring Greb always set a terriffic pace. He started in the first round and in the 15th, he was still going strong. I never saw a man with so much stamina.

"I always thought his best fight was with Mickey walker in 1925 for the middleweight title.

Sensitive About Looks
"Harry was always in shape and didn't need much work in the gym.

"We used to share an apartment and I never knew Greb was blinded in one eye. When we'd go out at night, and he'd always ask me how he looked, I always said, 'Great.' I noticed he had one crossed eye but I knew how sensitive he was about his looks and kept my mouth shut."

Red Mason, who followed Greb in death and was his manager most of his career, said at the time Greb died: "The death of Harry Greb marks the passing of one of the greatest fighters since John L. Sullivan.

"He was one of the very best who ever stepped into a ring. I never knew him to make a complaint. He was ready to fight any man who ever challenged him. He never ran out of a fight and never laid down."

[McGrain]

There is a lot of fable in the stories about Greb's training habbits and lifestyle outside the ring.

His manager claimed after his death that he was rigorous in his training habits and never drank while in training.

I guess the legends surrounding Greb took on a life of their own after his death.

Totally agree. I'm on the very edge of throwing out these booze and women stories as near total fabrications. I've come across only the tamest examples, all these stories seem to stem from Let The Angels Take Him and nowhere else.

[GPater11093]

McGrain, i have heard Greb was a womaniser.

[janitor]

Totally agree. I'm on the very edge of throwing out these booze and women stories as near total fabrications. I've come across only the tamest examples, all these stories seem to stem from Let The Angels Take Him and nowhere else.

I would be verry skeptical about anything in that book that was not corroborated by another source.

[McGrain]

I heard that too, but there's very little evidence to support it, at least that i've encountered.

I'm dissappointed. I wanted very badly to run into those stories.

It all seems to stem from one very slim, apparently sensationalist, recently re-printed book.

[McGrain]

I would be verry skeptical about anything in that book that was not corroborated by another source.

Aye. Although in fairness, I haven't read it.

[GPater11093]

McGrain, Chinx is the one who told me about it.

Im sure Chinx will expand on this as his Dad went to the retirement home near where he lived to talk to Harry Grebs mistress. And there were a few others.

[McGrain]

That would be pretty cool.

[GPater11093]

what would be cool

[McGrain]

Chinx expanding on what he told you.

[janitor]

McGrain, i have heard Greb was a womaniser.

There is truth in this but again the legend is a half truth.

Greb seems to have been a devoted family man. His wife tragicaly died in her 20s and after that he went off the rails a bit.

I think that the stories about his womanising will stand better scrutiny than stories of him drinking and not training but again we have a case of the legend eclipsing reality.

[McGrain]

Also, stories about him "training on women", with his prefering women to training and/or having women at camp have gone mad. Certainly in 1916 and 1917 he was one of the most serious trainers of the era, working with long-distance runners such was his appetite for road-work and sparring HW's.

[janitor]

A couple of quotes from Stonehands profile of Harry Greb...

"At the end of Greb-Tunney fight, Tunney collapsed and had to be carried into his dressing room. Stubbornly refusing to go to the hospital, doctors on the scene stitched up Gene’s face, reset his nose, and used a stomach pump to remove about two quarts of blood, brandy and orange juice, and adrenalin chloride. Greb, unmarked, didn’t look like he even had a fight. He spent the night drinking ginger ale (his preferred beverage) in a speakeasy surrounded by friends."

"According to the Boston Daily Globe, Greb earned a few more technical knockouts in Pittsburgh one night, though unofficially. After a female companion in his car was relieved of $95 and a ring on a lonely road in Highland Park by five robbers, Greb reported the incident to the police.

When they arrived on the scene, the officers noticed blood all over the road. It was not Greb’s.

Moved at the ensuing hearing by the weeping wife and children of one of the assailants, Greb offered to post bail. For those close to him, this was not a surprise. Contrary to the myth that he was a half-cocked hell-raiser, Greb was a kind man and a practicing Roman Catholic. There is nothing to suggest that he was anything less than in love with his wife Mildred throughout their courtship and marriage. When she died of tuberculosis in 1923, he was at her bedside. Harry was a faithful husband even if he was not the kind of widower who held a candle."

[GPater11093]

Chinx expanding on what he told you.

yeh, his Dad adored Greb being from Pittsburgh and being a fighter.

There is truth in this but again the legend is a half truth.

Greb seems to have been a devoted family man. His wife tragicaly died in her 20s and after that he went off the rails a bit.

I think that the stories about his womanising will stand better scrutiny than stories of him drinking and not training but again we have a case of the legend eclipsing reality.

Womanising is the vice of most men, fighers like De La Hoya, Arguello, Duran etc... while being honest family men were all involved in other women.

I dont doubt his training though.

[Chinxkid]

Ha, womanizing, my favorite subject!

First, I want to agree with what Bill Butcher said or didn't say: No film equals no comment, as far as Greb and Calzaghe.

Womanizing, boozing, my general opinion on folklore is most often where there is smoke there is fire. I have heard and or read, sometimes sources blur over the years, that Harry had two, count 'em Two women the day of the fight; it relaxed him, took the rough edge off. True or false, I have no idea, but the true romantic in me wants to believe it.

It's true that Harry's mistress was in a retirement home at the end of my block when I was growing up, and it's also true that my dad used to go up there to visit her. How close he was to her, I just don't know. If I'd have known he was going to die young I would have asked him about a lot of things.

[Seamus]

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Way to take clips out of context. Calzaghe in one of the worst onesided ass beatings in history. And trumped up Greb looking for all the world amateurish in training footage.

I have to go with what my eyes have seen... Calzaghe UD12 Greb.

[rekcutnevets]

I like what Seamus has to say here.

Greb is impressive on paper, but that is almost all we have. There is no video footage justifying Greb's ability to defeat me captured on film.

[Shake]

The thing is, though, that Gene Tunney is impressive. And Jack Dempsey is impressive. There is absolutely no way that man is not a terror in that ring. We know what the solution to the question is already -- he's great -- but the formula that leads up to that solution is entirely concealed exept for these short bits of video and the fight report clippings -- the video suggests he was not physically imposing nor lightning fast, the clippings have him as someone incredibly busy and wily -- swarming his opponents like an octopus.

I think the only viable conclusion you can draw is that Harry Greb used a lot of short arm punches (few clean knockouts, lots of facial damage to opponents), leaping into opponents, forcing opponents to fight a horrid pace and a fight in a style they were not accustomed to. You get the sense it was very hard to take a step back and jab the man -- like he wouldn't allow you that much breathing space.

It also seems he was very smart in the clinches and inside, and he was so busy that even if hed be sloppy and open sometimes, he probably scored more even though that was the case.

I don't see him like a mix of Calzaghe and Roy Jones -- I don't see any Roy Jones in him at all -- if anything, I would expect his offense to be most like Calzaghe, his defense to be a mix of Marciano's and Duran's, crouching coupled with head slips and reflexive bending of the waist while also maintaining a smart distance when not in the pocket, and moreso Hopkins inside skills than Durans, if you get what I mean. I expect him to outsmart rather than out-muscle and out-tough his opponents with fiery determination.

If this mix sounds ridiculously strong, well, why wouldn't it be? He has arguably the strongest resume in the history of the sport.

[TheGreatA]

Way to take clips out of context. Calzaghe in one of the worst onesided ass beatings in history. And trumped up Greb looking for all the world amateurish in training footage.

I have to go with what my eyes have seen... Calzaghe UD12 Greb.

I can only imagine how people would rate Calzaghe if we only had footage like this from him:

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In my opinion it's better to not predict anything at all because there is in fact no footage of Greb's fights.

A short clip of him clowning around with an old timer hardly proves anything either way, unless you want to believe that the man had no ability. In that case he must have had a lot of luck beating proven great boxers such as Tunney, Loughran, Walker and the Gibbons brothers.

[Beatle]

Similar styles, but Greb has the best resume in the history of boxing. He was the only man to beat Gene Tunney, and would probably be the only man to beat Calzaghe.

[janitor]

I have to go with what my eyes have seen... Calzaghe UD12 Greb.

If you were going to go with your eyes then you would decline to draw any conclusion one way or the other because you don't have any footage of Greb.

You can't draw any firm conclusions about his style from training footage.

[Seamus]

If you were going to go with your eyes then you would decline to draw any conclusion one way or the other because you don't have any footage of Greb.

You can't draw any firm conclusions about his style from training footage.


That's another way of angling it, though I prefer rankling the old timers with some Greb-bashing.

Of course, Greb was an amazing fighter but the footage of him training is an unfortunate choice of artifacts, simply amateurish.

[mr. magoo]

Calzaghe