Has MMA become the UFC and how does this affect Fedor?

[sugarngold]

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I'm not sure if that's the right way to phase that question. Have you ever had a conversation about MMA with someone to only have them constantly refer to the sport as UFC or ultimate fighting? Outside of my circle of friends - it happens all the time. People in the States are only familiar with the UFC due to it's exposure on Spike TV. We've seen a brand name take over the sport itself. With the UFC's continued expansion - we continue to see the best fighters in the world from lightweight to heavyweight make their way inside the octagon.

Then, I realize that the UFC's failure to sign Fedor leaves me sad. Fedor Emileanenko is the best fighter in MMA. I'm saddened at the thought of possibly having seen his peak fighting career come to an end. Fedor is very likely consigned to fighting UFC cast offs for the remainder of his career. This won't hurt his legacy - but it certainly won't better it.

I know this is going to piss off some of you but the UFC has all but established itself as the only game in town. Ten years ago - the best fighters fought inside the octagon or in Japan. Today, the best fighters in the world fight in the UFC. Mir. Lesnar. Couture. Nogueira. Carwin. Velasquez. Crocop. Gonazaga. Kongo. Herring. The UFC heavyweight division is an intriguing mix of wily veterans and powerful young up and comers.

Outside the UFC - the only heavyweights are Fedor, Overeem, and Bret Rogers. DREAM and STRIKEFORCE have much deeper lineups at the lower weight divisions. Then there's the WEC - which no longer has a heavyweight division. So there's the UFC and then there's Fedor. I have no problem admitting that Fedor has proved himself as the best fighter in the world (based mainly on his dominating performances over Crocop and Nogueira - two fighters now in the UFC) - but I find his future fight possibilities less than exciting. A fighter is only as good as his competition and we may have indeed seen the last time Fedor faced the best competition in the world. In all honesty - everyone in the UFC heavyweight division could give Fedor fits. The man that cuts a path through these fighters will take over the mantle that Fedor once held as the baddest man on the planet.

So, I've come to a sad realization that maybe my cousins are right. The MMA really is the UFC. MMA outside of the UFC has no meaning. It's like the old zen riddle about when a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it? If Fedor wins outside the UFC - does it really matter anymore?

[rydersonthestorm]

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I'm not sure if that's the right way to phase that question. Have you ever had a conversation about MMA with someone to only have them constantly refer to the sport as UFC or ultimate fighting? Outside of my circle of friends - it happens all the time. People in the States are only familiar with the UFC due to it's exposure on Spike TV. We've seen a brand name take over the sport itself. With the UFC's continued expansion - we continue to see the best fighters in the world from lightweight to heavyweight make their way inside the octagon.

Then, I realize that the UFC's failure to sign Fedor leaves me sad. Fedor Emileanenko is the best fighter in MMA. I'm saddened at the thought of possibly having seen his peak fighting career come to an end. Fedor is very likely consigned to fighting UFC cast offs for the remainder of his career. This won't hurt his legacy - but it certainly won't better it.

I know this is going to piss off some of you but the UFC has all but established itself as the only game in town. Ten years ago - the best fighters fought inside the octagon or in Japan. Today, the best fighters in the world fight in the UFC. Mir. Lesnar. Couture. Nogueira. Carwin. Velasquez. Crocop. Gonazaga. Kongo. Herring. The UFC heavyweight division is an intriguing mix of wily veterans and powerful young up and comers.

Outside the UFC - the only heavyweights are Fedor, Overeem, and Bret Rogers. DREAM and STRIKEFORCE have much deeper lineups at the lower weight divisions. Then there's the WEC - which no longer has a heavyweight division. So there's the UFC and then there's Fedor. I have no problem admitting that Fedor has proved himself as the best fighter in the world (based mainly on his dominating performances over Crocop and Nogueira - two fighters now in the UFC) - but I find his future fight possibilities less than exciting. A fighter is only as good as his competition and we may have indeed seen the last time Fedor faced the best competition in the world. In all honesty - everyone in the UFC heavyweight division could give Fedor fits. The man that cuts a path through these fighters will take over the mantle that Fedor once held as the baddest man on the planet.

So, I've come to a sad realization that maybe my cousins are right. The MMA really is the UFC. MMA outside of the UFC has no meaning. It's like the old zen riddle about when a tree falls in the forest and no one hears it? If Fedor wins outside the UFC - does it really matter anymore?
Barnett, monson,Kharitonov, antonio silva, buentello amongst others don't exist.

[Beebs]

MMA does not = just the UFC.

So long as Fedor is fighting good names, because not everybody can be in the UFC, it just doesnt work, it will be fine. If he slips into fighting bad fights, it begins not to matter. No one person is bigger than the sport; if Fedor decides to not do the honorable thing and fight good fights, he loses, not the sport.

[rydersonthestorm]

MMA does not = just the UFC.

So long as Fedor is fighting good names, because not everybody can be in the UFC, it just doesnt work, it will be fine. If he slips into fighting bad fights, it begins not to matter. No one person is bigger than the sport; if Fedor decides to not do the honorable thing and fight good fights, he loses, not the sport.
Thats fair but a nye fight with barnett or sergi and a fight in strikeforce with overeem would be a good start.

[Beebs]

Thats fair but a nye fight with barnett or sergi and a fight in strikeforce with overeem would be a good start.

That would be more than a good start, that would be in some peoples mind the best possible fight. Second best IMO, but still.

If he does that, and does it every time out, its certainly no worse than he would have done with the UFC.

[wentz]

This thread is wrong, stupid and worthless.

The UFC is an MMA event. Whenever you're dumb enough to watch it, you are watching MMA.

Dave Meltzer, who is a major chris benoit fan, has always tried to make this case, Of course he's delusional, and bought off by zuffa.

God zuffa zombies are rotten. They just don't want mma to be civilized. But it will be. The guy who started this tread is on his way back to worshiping wwe garbage, even if he doesn't know it.

armed.vox.com

[ufoalf]

It has in America somewhat. You can't even compare it to NBA or NFL. People will ask you if you do UFC, but they'll never ask you if you do NBA. As of right now that's just pure ignorance nothing else. Once the sport gets more acceptance UFC will be compared to NBA and NFL imo.

[J_Roth]

Don't confuse the casual fans who watch UFC only with anyone who has been a fan for a long long time. They know only what is popular and what they are force fed.

[Boinko]

Don't confuse the casual fans who watch UFC only with anyone who has been a fan for a long long time. They know only what is popular and what they are force fed.

The problem is it's the massive number of casual fans that watch the UFC events, and ignore all the others, that makes the UFC what it is.
I know quite a few people who never miss a UFC PPV, yet only recently found how who Fedor was. And that was only because it became news that the UFC was desperately trying to sign him.

[Dave_j1985]

I like to show my mates some old Pride DVD's, just to show them there is/ was a world of MMA outside UFC. But let's be realistic, UFC have the best fighters and put on good cards. I don't know why people don't watch their cards simply because it's UFC, or call them 'the evil empire'. They made MMA what it is today, virtually created the sport and not watching their cards isn't going to hurt them! It's your loss.

[rusty nails]

the ufc needs to head the way of the boxing orginistaions and start sanctioning fights on smaller shows or with rival orginisations to provide a larger forum and more opportunity to fighters.
Either that or start francising to different countries. for example a UFC FRANCE,
UFC ENGLAND, UFC JAPAN, UFC ITALY etc etc...

[achillesthegreat]

Even when Fedor smiles his face still seems to show no emotion. Stone cold assassin! Join the fucking UFC and let's see him v Brock!

[Spunik]

If Barnett's stupid ass didn't get busted again Fedor's latest non-signing with the UFC wouldn't have been seen as big a deal (assuming Fedor would have won in dynamic fashion which is his usual m.o.)

[ryanty22]

the ufc needs to head the way of the boxing orginistaions and start sanctioning fights on smaller shows or with rival orginisations to provide a larger forum and more opportunity to fighters.
Either that or start francising to different countries. for example a UFC FRANCE,
UFC ENGLAND, UFC JAPAN, UFC ITALY etc etc...

i could see that being a good thing but not that fractured maybe a ufc europe, ufc asia, ufc n. america, ufc south america. a ufc for the continents would be cool in developing regional talent and getting these fighters from the beginning rather than letting them come thru the smaller orgs. it would be a great way to increase their monopoly. although that would probably drive alot of mma posters overboard and there would be massive e.s.b. suicide watches

[sugarngold]

Barnett, monson,Kharitonov, antonio silva, buentello amongst others don't exist.

Instead of listing Buentello, Monson and Antonio Silva - you could just say what about all those guys that lost in the UFC and got sent down to the lower leagues?

That's the problem.

With fighters like Kharitonov around - there are at least one or two good fights for Fedor out there - but after them he has nowhere to go but down.

I'm surprised Scurla hasn't shown up to call me a dumbass yet. :lol:

[snakerattle79]

hardcore fans will rally behind Fedor no matter what(win or lose) cause the guy's the most classy, most intense and most adorable fighter in the history of MMA

[liger05]

MMA is not a mainstream sport in the US. UFC is but MMA isnt.

[scurlaruntings]

I like to show my mates some old Pride DVD's, just to show them there is/ was a world of MMA outside UFC. But let's be realistic, UFC have the best fighters and put on good cards. I don't know why people don't watch their cards simply because it's UFC, or call them 'the evil empire'. They made MMA what it is today, virtually created the sport and not watching their cards isn't going to hurt them! It's your loss.NOTE the UFC CURRENTLY have the best fighters. Before PRIDE's demise PRIDE was the best and by far the deepest organisation in the world. The diffrence in class and talent was huge. The UFC made a massive coup when they were able to wipe out and disband their biggest competitor.

And no the UFC did not make MMA what it is today. Theres very little traditional martial arts practiced in the UFC. Everyone is guffawing over Machida and Silva but these guys made there trade in other organisations represeting martial arts. Not hybrid wrestlers with a dash of jujitsu.

Where the UFC differs from any other organisation is Dana's extremely aggresive marketing. As is evident by you're post most have fallen for it hook line and sinker and see it as the defacto standard as to all that is martial arts. In my opinion its not even close.

[scurlaruntings]

MMA is not a mainstream sport in the US. UFC is but MMA isnt.:thumbsup Ask a UFC fan what Mixed Martial Arts is and assure you they could barely explain it let alone recite a handful of MA disciplines.

[liger05]

NOTE the UFC CURRENTLY have the best fighters. Before PRIDE's demise PRIDE was the best and by far the deepest organisation in the world. The diffrence in class and talent was huge. The UFC made a massive coup when they were able to wipe out and disband their biggest competitor.

And no the UFC did not make MMA what it is today. Theres very little traditional martial arts practiced in the UFC. Everyone is guffawing over Machida and Silva but these guys made there trade in other organisations represeting martial arts. Not hybrid wrestlers with a dash of jujitsu.

Where the UFC differs from any other organisation is Dana's extremely aggresive marketing. As is evident by you're post most have fallen for it hook line and sinker and see it as the defacto standard as to all that is martial arts. In my opinion its not even close.

When Pride was booming there was no comparison between the two shows. The Pride shows were on a different level.

I would say Nobuyuki Sakikabara managed to make a coup in convincing the UFC to pay a multi million amount for nothing more than a video library which wasnt even all the Pride material, and assets which didnt include fighter contracts. UFC got screwed big time in that deal.

[scurlaruntings]

When Pride was booming there was no comparison between the two shows. The Pride shows were on a different level.

I would say Nobuyuki Sakikabara managed to make a coup in convincing the UFC to pay a multi million amount for nothing more than a video library which wasnt even all the Pride material, and assets which didnt include fighter contracts. UFC got screwed big time in that deal.Dana knew the UFC got fucked in the deal. He doesnt care. He runs shows in Europe at a loss. The reason is simple. Product brand and great promotion. Thats all the UFC has ever been about with Dana at the helm. And these socalled "fans" fall for it every time. There not interested in MMA there just interested in whatever Dana can feed them.

[Beebs]

:thumbsup Ask a UFC fan what Mixed Martial Arts is and assure you they could barely explain it let alone recite a handful of MA disciplines.


Shit like this just shows what a hater you truely are.

You act like there are MMA fans that aren't UFC fans; sorry buddy, you and snakerattle seem to be the only people who like MMA that don't consider yourselfs fans of the UFC.

I'm sure you were just born with a deep knowledge of MMA before you ever saw the UFC though, you are just so much better and smarter than everybody else. You were born an eliteist, you never were new to the sport, you always knew who the fourth ranked flyweight in Shooto was.


God forbid that some people may watch the UFC like they watch the NFL, or that a soccer fan doesn't know the backup keeper for Leeds, or who lost the fourth qualifying round of the Intertoto cup right?

Damn all those idiots who don't know every single thing about the sport instantly, I hate them so much for providing the MMA world with more money, exposure, and popularity than before.

God I wish it was just 4 am streams on a sunday in a foreign language, then we would all be just as awsome as you.

[Beebs]

NOTE the UFC CURRENTLY have the best fighters. Before PRIDE's demise PRIDE was the best and by far the deepest organisation in the world. The diffrence in class and talent was huge.

Sure it was. Thank god we can still have this stupid old debate.

[scurlaruntings]

Sure it was. Thank god we can still have this stupid old debate.The same reason why you can harp on the diffrences between Fedor being the greatest of all time and not being the greatest fighter in his division currently. Yeah your a real bright shining light when it comes to arguing semantics. :roll:

[scurlaruntings]

Shit like this just shows what a hater you truely are.

You act like there are MMA fans that aren't UFC fans; sorry buddy, you and snakerattle seem to be the only people who like MMA that don't consider yourselfs fans of the UFC.

I'm sure you were just born with a deep knowledge of MMA before you ever saw the UFC though, you are just so much better and smarter than everybody else. You were born an eliteist, you never were new to the sport, you always knew who the fourth ranked flyweight in Shooto was.


God forbid that some people may watch the UFC like they watch the NFL, or that a soccer fan doesn't know the backup keeper for Leeds, or who lost the fourth qualifying round of the Intertoto cup right?

Damn all those idiots who don't know every single thing about the sport instantly, I hate them so much for providing the MMA world with more money, exposure, and popularity than before.

God I wish it was just 4 am streams on a sunday in a foreign language, then we would all be just as awsome as you.:lol: Im glad you feel that way. Its tough being me sometimes. Sometimes you have to let sleeping dogs lay.......

[Beebs]

And no the UFC did not make MMA what it is today. Theres very little traditional martial arts practiced in the UFC. Everyone is guffawing over Machida and Silva but these guys made there trade in other organisations represeting martial arts. Not hybrid wrestlers with a dash of jujitsu.

Who did then? Pancrase? Shooto?

Vale Tudo in Brazil was the pioneer in the West; Shooto in the East. The UFC was the first Vale Tudo organization of note in the US. Pancrase was the first modified MMA organization of note in Japan.

No Zuffa didn't get MMA regulated as they have claimed, but the UFC was really the first show to run an MMA event with todays rules and weight classes.

What exactly does "making MMA what it is today" mean? Who did it?

What does traditional martial arts have to do with anything? MMA is, was, and will always be about whats effective. If thats a Shinya Aoki, a Machida, a or a Brock Lesnar, its what MMA is about.

[sugarngold]

Scurla - you're alright by me and I'm sure that means little to you - but it's time we have to admit that the best fighters are in the UFC. It may not stay that way and it might not last long - but for the moment - the UFC is where the best fighters in the world go to fight. PRIDE is gone and never coming back. It was great while it lasted - but time and MMA have moved on. Fedor is running the risk of becoming irrelevant if he continues to avoid the Octagon. Only time will tell, but for now Fedor's future - beyond fighting Barnett in Japan - looks grim. And I'm not even talking about Bret Rogers.

[jc]

Fedor not signing to fight in the UFC, is the equivalent of Lennox Lewis not fighting Riddick Bowe, young Tyson and young Holyfield or Roy Jones not facing Darius Michelcewski, Nigel Benn and Hopkins again, they are both all time greats regardless but it would have been a hell of alot sweeter if these fights happened.

I think the same applies with Fedor not fighting Lesnar, Mir, Couture, Valasquez, Carwin etc.

Also the UFC title is now considered the genuine 'world title' whatever way you look at it, the UFC is the number 1 organisation in mma, Fedors legacy will increase with a UFC belt.

[rekcutnevets]

All of the following is assuming Fedor and Lesnar keep winning.

Fedor can hold on to his claim as being MMA's heavyweight champion for a short while to come. Lesnar can't just immediately assume Fedor's current placement in the sport without defeating him. Fedor has a few available opponents on par with Lesnar's challengers.

I went to Fight Matrix' website ( [Only registered and activated users can see links] ) and 12 of their top 20 heavyweights last fought in the UFC. I realize these rankings are computer generated following a formula, but I find them better than some of the other websites' human picked orders. That's not the point.

At first I thought that the UFC had lock on having the best. Then look at who is on it. Most of these guys are established veterans, flukes (mercer), and guys as good as they're ever going to be. There are quite a bit of up and comers with various organizations. The UFC is the favorite to sign the best of these fighters, sure; but there is the chance they materialize else where.

I was hoping this fight would happen soon, while it is on more of a level playing field. Lesnar has a 70 lb weight advantage to take with his serious athletic ability into the ring with Fedor. I believe Fedor to be the best fighter in MMA history, but Lesnar is a challenge like he's never faced. Though the age difference is minimal, the clock is very much against Fedor. If both continue their winning ways, even if it's only 3 in a row for Lesnar, Lesnar gets closer to being even odds with each fight.