View Full Version : Jeff Fenech vs Manny Pac- Prime 4 Prime, Who Takes It?
Is it the whirlwind offense and high punch output of Fenech, or the power and tenacity of Pac?
Marcus
09-11-2007, 01:55 AM
seriously i thought you knew a bit about boxing this is the worst question i've seen on here you no pac would have him outta there in 4 or 5 rounds especially the way no skill fenech fights straight foward pressure he would get put to sleep:patsch
Still upset about choc hey bitchboy :happy :happy :happy :happy
Kegsy
09-11-2007, 01:57 AM
Tough fight to judge IMO.
Would have been a great all action brawl that is no doubt.
Fenech in his prime would have a good as anybody chance of beating the current version Pacman.
Marcus
09-11-2007, 02:04 AM
:lol:
nah mate he will be back just in time to fight kessler after he knocks calzaghe out. bitchboy YEAH thats a good one you really got me there.
well i hope your right buddy, i dont wanna see Mundine retire before he either wins a real title or gets KTFO
Dr Gonzo
09-11-2007, 02:11 AM
Tough fight to judge IMO.
Would have been a great all action brawl that is no doubt.
Fenech in his prime would have a good as anybody chance of beating the current version Pacman.
gets stopped on cuts by the 9th - i think Fenech would have too much forward momentum even for Pac and would get the TKO
seriously i thought you knew a bit about boxing this is the worst question i've seen on here you no pac would have him outta there in 4 or 5 rounds especially the way no skill fenech fights straight foward pressure he would get put to sleep:patsch
This is Jeff Fenech the HOF, the guy who won world titles in 3 weight classes (should have been 4). A guy who at the tail end of his career gave a HOF like Nelson a life and death struggle that he should have won. Who beat guys like Zaragoza (HOF), Steve McCrory (gold medalist trained by Steward) and Navarro. You are seriously under estimating him as a fighter. Go to any of the other forums and ask the same question and see if anyone else thinks it is a silly quesiton. At the moment the only person who looks silly is you.
so who wins then? i reakon pac does he is num #2 p4p was fenech ever a p4per
I didn't read ring magazine back then, but I think he most certainly would have been. Before he was beaten by Azumah Nelson in the second fight, who is a great fighter and HOF, the ring mag in 1992 recognized it as the Upset of the Year, indicating the Fenech was VERY highly regarded. Considering he was undefeated and had already claimed titles in 3 divisons at this stage, and in the eyes of boxing experts had been robbed by Nelson in the first, I have no doubt he was rated very highly on the p4p scales. What you need to do is analysise the styles in this one. Fenech had an IRON jaw, and at his natural weight would have been very hard to KO.
ipswich express
09-11-2007, 04:50 AM
fenech ever a p4per
Damn right he was.
WhataRock
09-11-2007, 08:23 AM
I think Fenech could do it, it would be a war but Fenech was a smarter fighter.
He would take Manny apart from the inside, Manny still is pretty much a one trick pony though that one trick is amazing.
If you can take his power, stiffle his aggression and keep up with his pace you certainly have a chance against Manny, and Fenech could do all of those things.
nrgetic
09-11-2007, 10:48 AM
Jeff Fenech got me interested in boxing, that is where my interest in Jeff Fenech ends
Robot16
09-11-2007, 11:03 AM
I didn't read ring magazine back then, but I think he most certainly would have been. Before he was beaten by Azumah Nelson in the second fight, who is a great fighter and HOF, the ring mag in 1992 recognized it as the Upset of the Year, indicating the Fenech was VERY highly regarded. Considering he was undefeated and had already claimed titles in 3 divisons at this stage, and in the eyes of boxing experts had been robbed by Nelson in the first, I have no doubt he was rated very highly on the p4p scales. What you need to do is analysise the styles in this one. Fenech had an IRON jaw, and at his natural weight would have been very hard to KO.
Yeh it was upset id say due to the competitivness of the 1st fight and the way Azumah was able to take out fenech in the rematch here.
IMO id say Fenech would win due to the fact he would have been able to pressure and push Pacman back.
Pacman does not like going back and Fenech will rough him up and make it a dirty fight.
Like^^^mentioned Fenech hadnt lost til the Nelson rematch while Pacman has been outboxed before.
But styles make fights and id say Fenech would take it.
But in a series of fights i see both winning some.
Executioner
09-11-2007, 12:22 PM
Fenech tears him apart, too strong and too mean. He'd ragdoll Pac
I think Fenech could do it, it would be a war but Fenech was a smarter fighter.
He would take Manny apart from the inside, Manny still is pretty much a one trick pony though that one trick is amazing.
If you can take his power, stiffle his aggression and keep up with his pace you certainly have a chance against Manny, and Fenech could do all of those things.
Good post. I think that Manny will have trouble against a fighter who can as you said "stiffle" his aggression. In other words, he needs room for his power to be effective, and against Fenech I just can't see him being able to throw that straight left as often as he likes. Still, you can never underestimate the power and especially the speed of Pac. I would LOVE to see this fight, it would be a great contrast of styles. Fenech would need every dirty trick in the book to pull this one out.
stuistylee
09-11-2007, 10:44 PM
I didn't read ring magazine back then, but I think he most certainly would have been. Before he was beaten by Azumah Nelson in the second fight, who is a great fighter and HOF, the ring mag in 1992 recognized it as the Upset of the Year, indicating the Fenech was VERY highly regarded. Considering he was undefeated and had already claimed titles in 3 divisons at this stage, and in the eyes of boxing experts had been robbed by Nelson in the first, I have no doubt he was rated very highly on the p4p scales. What you need to do is analysise the styles in this one. Fenech had an IRON jaw, and at his natural weight would have been very hard to KO.he got as high as 3 and held a couple of diffrent spots in the top10 p4p as recall...wld hav2 dig ol mags up 2 b sure...
theunderdog
09-11-2007, 11:02 PM
i think the question is misleading to begin with. pac's prime is at 130 which was not fenech's prime.
as i have stated before, fenech probably beats pac's version at 122, it will be a toss up against pac at 126, and pac wins at 130
it's tough to picture a match up as prime for prime and without taking weight into consideration. so i won't pic a winner if no weight is chosed.
i think the question is misleading to begin with. pac's prime is at 130 which was not fenech's prime.
as i have stated before, fenech probably beats pac's version at 122, it will be a toss up against pac at 126, and pac wins at 130
it's tough to picture a match up as prime for prime and without taking weight into consideration. so i won't pic a winner if no weight is chosed.
The weight would be 126. How can you call 130 his prime when he started his career fighting around 107 pounds... Its so far above his natural weight. At 126 Pac had the best victory of his career when he demolished Barrera, and in terms of punching power was a machine.
WhataRock
09-11-2007, 11:15 PM
i think the question is misleading to begin with. pac's prime is at 130 which was not fenech's prime.
as i have stated before, fenech probably beats pac's version at 122, it will be a toss up against pac at 126, and pac wins at 130
it's tough to picture a match up as prime for prime and without taking weight into consideration. so i won't pic a winner if no weight is chosed.
Im still not sure about that, I mean Pac has not beaten an elite natural 130 pounder really.
He has mostly feasted on guys who made the same moves in weight as he did.
Pac looked pretty devastating at 122-126 and though he didnt have the as many big wins there he beat some good contenders. That range is probably Fenech's prime weight.
To be honest, at 130 he lost to Morales, and then beat a past prime version of him twice. Morales IMO was clearly not the same fighter, as prime Morales would not have lost to Raheem, especially the way he performed. His other victories at this weight are nothing speical either, and against Larios he certainly didn't look spectacular, considering Vasquez knocked him out in 3 one fight earlier.
WhataRock
09-11-2007, 11:27 PM
Pretty spot on there MSTR
If there was nothing doing at 130 Pac wouldnt be there because he is a smaller guy physically, he comes in a couple of pounds below the limit.
Hell even only a few years ago he used to come in at 120 for superbantem fights, strong as fuck and fast as ever.
Peterp
09-11-2007, 11:57 PM
Fenech was damm good in his prime
theunderdog
09-12-2007, 12:54 AM
The weight would be 126. How can you call 130 his prime when he started his career fighting around 107 pounds... Its so far above his natural weight. At 126 Pac had the best victory of his career when he demolished Barrera, and in terms of punching power was a machine.
you have to be blind to consider 126 as the better weight for pac. yes, it did put him on the boxing map but pac's version at 130 will beat his version at 126 becuase of themany advancements in his technique that he went through
you have to be blind to consider 126 as the better weight for pac. yes, it did put him on the boxing map but pac's version at 130 will beat his version at 126 becuase of themany advancements in his technique that he went through
What advancements? If he is now a superior technical fighter why did he lose to Morales and perform poorly agaisnt Larios then?
theunderdog
09-12-2007, 01:05 AM
To be honest, at 130 he lost to Morales, and then beat a past prime version of him twice. Morales IMO was clearly not the same fighter, as prime Morales would not have lost to Raheem, especially the way he performed. His other victories at this weight are nothing speical either, and against Larios he certainly didn't look spectacular, considering Vasquez knocked him out in 3 one fight earlier.
my point is simple. i'm not here to argue if he pac can still make 126 or 122. yes, he was a monster there. but if you put all things aside and look at the totality of pac's game, his version at 130 is the best so i'd say that pac is peaking at the moment at 130.
yes he was great at 122, but got clocked by skinny hussein and was a beneficiary of a long count to save his ass. you aussies should know this. at his first taste at 126, he was sent down to the canvass by an unheralded journeyman serikzan yeshmagambetov.
has pac been sent down at 130? nope, because his defence got better. one could argue that the impact of pacs power diminished when he moved up in weight but there is no denying that he is a better fighter at 130 that in any other weight where he competed in
Robot16
09-12-2007, 01:09 AM
The weight would be 126. How can you call 130 his prime when he started his career fighting around 107 pounds... Its so far above his natural weight. At 126 Pac had the best victory of his career when he demolished Barrera, and in terms of punching power was a machine.
Yeh i agree with you and Whatarock.
Pac wouldnt be up at 130pds if it wasnt for Morales who wanted to fight him.
Id pit Pacman at 126pds at his prime.
And against Fenech at 126pds too.
Even at 130pds he gave Azumah a good fight(whether or not azumah was ill).
Also i think a Raheem type style would be a hard fight for Morales at any weight, but he would have won earlier in his career.
Damm i didnt want him to face Raheem.
theunderdog
09-12-2007, 01:10 AM
What advancements? If he is now a superior technical fighter why did he lose to Morales and perform poorly agaisnt Larios then?
he lost to morales because morales was the better fighter that night plain and simple. it was not a shame to lose to morales that night but it does not mean that because he lost to morales, that he was better at 126. to add to that, it was his first fight at 130. if he did not improve, why the hell did he beat morales twice after. he did beat larrios didn't he? he decked him twice. what the hell is performing poorly with that?
if the pac who fought jmm was the same pac who fought morales, he should have lost by a bigger margin.
are you also telling me that that performance was poor because he didn't ko larrios? it was poor because it was not exciting enough? damn man.
he lost to morales because morales was the better fighter that night plain and simple. it was not a shame to lose to morales that night but it does not mean that because he lost to morales, that he was better at 126. to add to that, it was his first fight at 130. if he did not improve, why the hell did he beat morales twice after. he did beat larrios didn't he? he decked him twice. what the hell is performing poorly with that?
if the pac who fought jmm was the same pac who fought morales, he should have lost by a bigger margin.
are you also telling me that that performance was poor because he didn't ko larrios? it was poor because it was not exciting enough? damn man.
I have already explained though that Morales was clearly showing signs of age. In fact, even in the second match he was handling Pac until his legs literally started to just give up. The Larrios performance was not only dull by his standard, but also not good. Larios had fought his last fight at 120, and been KO'd in 3 by Vasquez. He had moved up well in weight to take the fight, and considering he was coming off a KO loss, Pac really should have been more dominant then he was. More importantly, can you show me exactly what technical advancements he has made? Other then that, the weight is an obvious factor, as it is definitely well above Pac's natural weight.
my point is simple. i'm not here to argue if he pac can still make 126 or 122. yes, he was a monster there. but if you put all things aside and look at the totality of pac's game, his version at 130 is the best so i'd say that pac is peaking at the moment at 130.
yes he was great at 122, but got clocked by skinny hussein and was a beneficiary of a long count to save his ass. you aussies should know this. at his first taste at 126, he was sent down to the canvass by an unheralded journeyman serikzan yeshmagambetov.
has pac been sent down at 130? nope, because his defence got better. one could argue that the impact of pacs power diminished when he moved up in weight but there is no denying that he is a better fighter at 130 that in any other weight where he competed in
His best performance of his career was at 126 though...
Robot16
09-12-2007, 01:28 AM
I have already explained though that Morales was clearly showing signs of age. In fact, even in the second match he was handling Pac until his legs literally started to just give up. The Larrios performance was not only dull by his standard, but also not good. Larios had fought his last fight at 120, and been KO'd in 3 by Vasquez. He had moved up well in weight to take the fight, and considering he was coming off a KO loss, Pac really should have been more dominant then he was. More importantly, can you show me exactly what technical advancements he has made? Other then that, the weight is an obvious factor, as it is definitely well above Pac's natural weight.
Larios was getting stung by Vasquez and got dropped, but didnt he win via cut stoppage?
Also i agree with you i do not give Pacman much credit for his wins over Erik Morales, Morales in their fisrt fight won.
Then after that he was not the same fighter. You could make a case he wasnt in their first fight but hetill took the win.
Pacman has got overhyped by many dueto his wins over morales, i mean people are saying he is better than floyd:patsch .
As the underdog said, Larios was at a higher weight (8 pounds), so he didnt have to cut weight and he would have been stronger and been able to take a shot better than ever, also he would have been up for that fight, Knowing a win or a good showing will get him some more $$$.
Morales is a legend:good
theunderdog
09-12-2007, 01:34 AM
vasquez is a beast at 122. larrios got older and needed to move up in weight. he drains himself to make 122. if you compare israel's win over a weight drained larrios from pac's win over larrios in what could just be the best shape of his entire career, then you're mistaken.
and yes, i agree with you MSTR that his best win ever was at 126. but it does not have to mean though that it was his peak.
Larios was getting stung by Vasquez and got dropped, but didnt he win via cut stoppage?
Also i agree with you i do not give Pacman much credit for his wins over Erik Morales, Morales in their fisrt fight won.
Then after that he was not the same fighter. You could make a case he wasnt in their first fight but hetill took the win.
Pacman has got overhyped by many dueto his wins over morales, i mean people are saying he is better than floyd:patsch .
As the underdog said, Larios was at a higher weight (8 pounds), so he didnt have to cut weight and he would have been stronger and been able to take a shot better than ever, also he would have been up for that fight, Knowing a win or a good showing will get him some more $$$.
Morales is a legend:good
Your probably right, I didn't watch the Larios v Vas fight, I was just going off the result, so it may well have been. Regardless, Larios is definitely getting on, and Pac considering he is the no.2 p4p fighter in the world should have put on a more dominant performance.
PIPO23
09-12-2007, 01:50 AM
Your probably right, I didn't watch the Larios v Vas fight, I was just going off the result, so it may well have been. Regardless, Larios is definitely getting on, and Pac considering he is the no.2 p4p fighter in the world should have put on a more dominant performance.
He toyed with Larios.
Simply too quick for Larios mate. :good
theunderdog
09-12-2007, 01:55 AM
it's been fun discussing with you aussies again. no name calling, no cussing, no degrading of mothers. you're cool guys.
peace and until next time
PIPO23
09-12-2007, 02:10 AM
Larios beat Vasquez before they had a rematch.Larios is a good opponent don't understimate these Mexicans they're tough as nails.And Larios was pumped to fight Pac.Obviously,he had prepared hard out.Even though Larios was moving up in weight Pac doesn't really have the advantage apart from having fought at that weight, Pac is still a blown up SFW. I agree with underdog Pac is at his best now, not because of his power and speed.IMO his power isn't all that devasting but he can still knock you off your feet and he still has the speed.The biggest difference now is he knows the game better, he is starting to use his head a little bit, make adjustments and corrected a few of the mistakes he was making before......he still has alot to prove only time well tell if he is overhyped or not...
it's been fun discussing with you aussies again. no name calling, no cussing, no degrading of mothers. you're cool guys.
peace and until next time
Cheers mate. Its almost strange after posting on the general isn't it?
WhataRock
09-12-2007, 02:18 AM
So whats to say that if the big fights stayed at 126 Pac wouldnt have made these improvements at feather??
I reckon its maturity and experience, not weight gain, that have seen him get better.
With the Larios fight, I half expected that result thought I thought it would actually pan out with Larios taking some rounds and getting stopped. Not pac dominating most rounds and getting the decision.
Larios' prep for that fight sounded crazy, he was totally focused and had spent months putting the weight on properly. Im pretty sure he was training in Japan for a while, which means he would have been getting good sparring and would have had great training facilities.
Pac on the other hand appeared to be taking training a little less seriously and was caught up in the hype of the fight at home. I dont think he was 100% fit for that fight, close but I think mentally he was totally focused.
I dont feel that fight impacts on the way I view Pac at 130.
theunderdog
09-12-2007, 02:52 AM
Cheers mate. Its almost strange after posting on the general isn't it?
the difference in night and day. you can't have a discussion out there without the name-calling. that's why i troop here once in a while. it's fun to discuss boxing with people who actually know something about it.
i made a thread about pac's physical peak. most people agreed with you that he wa best suited for 122-126 but then they agreed with me that pac's skills are in their top level today.:good
Robot16
09-12-2007, 03:13 AM
Yeah MSTR, he did get rocked in that fight by larios.
I goe what you are saying by him being regarded as p4p #2.
Also i know you are a cotto fan and i am too, but dam i hope he shows a good performance against mosley.
I was just thinking how much i wanted mosley to fight floyd, and thought it would be one of floyds toughest fights.
Then i was like damn, cotto took the fight. I can see both guys winning, but with shane at his age cotto can take it.
Its crap being a fan of both
With the Larios fight, I half expected that result thought I thought it would actually pan out with Larios taking some rounds and getting stopped. Not pac dominating most rounds and getting the decision.
Larios' prep for that fight sounded crazy, he was totally focused and had spent months putting the weight on properly. Im pretty sure he was training in Japan for a while, which means he would have been getting good sparring and would have had great training facilities.
Pac on the other hand appeared to be taking training a little less seriously and was caught up in the hype of the fight at home. I dont think he was 100% fit for that fight, close but I think mentally he was totally focused.
I dont feel that fight impacts on the way I view Pac at 130.
Yeh i thought pac may stop him.
But afterwards i was like larios trained his ass off like you mentioned and he didnt have to boil down to 122Pds. Larios was in great shape being at a higher weight and all, he fought his heart out, but the fight imo took abit out from larios.
Yeah MSTR, he did get rocked in that fight by larios.
I goe what you are saying by him being regarded as p4p #2.
Also i know you are a cotto fan and i am too, but dam i hope he shows a good performance against mosley.
I was just thinking how much i wanted mosley to fight floyd, and thought it would be one of floyds toughest fights.
Then i was like damn, cotto took the fight. I can see both guys winning, but with shane at his age cotto can take it.
Its crap being a fan of both
Yeh i thought pac may stop him.
But afterwards i was like larios trained his ass off like you mentioned and he didnt have to boil down to 122Pds. Larios was in great shape being at a higher weight and all, he fought his heart out, but the fight imo took abit out from larios.
Cotto is a sensational talent. Having watched his career I have seen him mature as a fighter, and I have no doubt he can and will beat Mosley. IMO, he is the only guy right now who has the skills/style, and also the bargaining power to both fight floyd and beat him. I would love to see Cotto beat Mosley, Floyd beat Hatton, and then both of these guys meet. Can you imagine? 2 undefeated multiple weight world champions coming off arguably (not for Cotto) the biggest wins in their respective careers, to battle it out for the undisputed welterweight championship of the world... It would be almost too good to be true. The winner of the fight would gain a MASSIVE amount of credit, and would certainly put themselves in a great position to be one of the top ATG's.
Robot16
09-12-2007, 04:32 AM
Cotto is a sensational talent. Having watched his career I have seen him mature as a fighter, and I have no doubt he can and will beat Mosley. IMO, he is the only guy right now who has the skills/style, and also the bargaining power to both fight floyd and beat him. I would love to see Cotto beat Mosley, Floyd beat Hatton, and then both of these guys meet. Can you imagine? 2 undefeated multiple weight world champions coming off arguably (not for Cotto) the biggest wins in their respective careers, to battle it out for the undisputed welterweight championship of the world... It would be almost too good to be true. The winner of the fight would gain a MASSIVE amount of credit, and would certainly put themselves in a great position to be one of the top ATG's.
Yeah imo i say Floyd is the Champ at 147 since he did the the man who won the belt Baldomir.
But yeh i want cotto to win, but at the same time i dont want shane to get belted cos he is a fav of mine too.
Yeah cotto did use to box more earlier on.
But yeah that would be a good fight with cotto and floyd, but also mosley vs floyd.
The only think is i dont like cotto in with someone who is quick and had power.
But should be a good fight.
PIPO23
09-12-2007, 04:47 AM
So whats to say that if the big fights stayed at 126 Pac wouldnt have made these improvements at feather??
I reckon its maturity and experience, not weight gain, that have seen him get better.
With the Larios fight, I half expected that result thought I thought it would actually pan out with Larios taking some rounds and getting stopped. Not pac dominating most rounds and getting the decision.
Larios' prep for that fight sounded crazy, he was totally focused and had spent months putting the weight on properly. Im pretty sure he was training in Japan for a while, which means he would have been getting good sparring and would have had great training facilities.
Pac on the other hand appeared to be taking training a little less seriously and was caught up in the hype of the fight at home. I dont think he was 100% fit for that fight, close but I think mentally he was totally focused.
I dont feel that fight impacts on the way I view Pac at 130.
True dat, Pac was susceptable to getting (outboxed) if you will. Why? because he was erratic and out of control, Pac is awkward he's all over the place, off balanced, one dimensional..He made so many mistakes.He is more patient, I guess,he wont go hard out left hand trigger happy, reckless as he always was.Pac worked on how to fight on the back foot and also using the right hand more,because really he was a one handed fighter.Although his boxing hasn't improved all that much to be honest he has added a few minor changes here and there and worked on other things to his game.The biggest difference is Pac is under control which he was against MAB.But strangely against Marquez and Morales I guess he was over excited,nah he was exposed bigtime as one dimesional simple as that.....He got a neat boxing lesson but Pac has so much fight and energy it usually pulls him through. He doesn't quit, he'll keep coming the only way to make stop him is if you back him up or hurt him......
:good
:good
victorhugo4222
09-12-2007, 10:54 AM
well i hope your right buddy, i dont wanna see Mundine retire before he either wins a real title or gets KTFO
your wish will be JC command after he bitch slaps kessler!!!
Calzaghe KOs kessler 8th
Calzaghe KOs mundine 5th
Yeah imo i say Floyd is the Champ at 147 since he did the the man who won the belt Baldomir.
But yeh i want cotto to win, but at the same time i dont want shane to get belted cos he is a fav of mine too.
Yeah cotto did use to box more earlier on.
But yeah that would be a good fight with cotto and floyd, but also mosley vs floyd.
The only think is i dont like cotto in with someone who is quick and had power.
But should be a good fight.
The biggest thing I would worry about with Cotto is fighting someone with Power. I don't think Shane is a power puncher anymore, and I don't think he has been for a while. he can still hit, but not like he used to. Guys like Cintron would be very dangerous for Cotto, as his chin is still slightly susupect.
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