Torres Hype its over.

[chimba]

I never bought into it, just like I didnt buy into Faber. Win a bunch and then gets laid out silly.

Unless they learn how to defend themselves like Silva and Machida they will always fall into the same trap, a crushing KO

[IntentionalButt]

Yeah, neither is a good fighter. :roll:

[chimba]

Yeah, neither is a good fighter. :roll:

I mean this is the guy thats mentioned ahead of the Penns and Machidas of the world...Hes good but not that good, you cant be reckless like that and this happens far too often. Beside GSP/Serra this just dont happen against the present greats of this sport.

[Filmnpuck]

Ok. Dude is 36-2. How many MMA fighters out there with that record?

How about just give Bowles his props for beating a great fighter.

[chimba]

Ok. Dude is 36-2. How many MMA fighters out there with that record?

How about just give Bowles his props for beating a great fighter.

I give Bowles props, impressive. Hope he turns out to be the truly elite fighter at 135. He controlled that fight

How was the decision on the Curran/Miz fight? I didnt see.

[IntentionalButt]

I mean this is the guy thats mentioned ahead of the Penns and Machidas of the world...Hes good but not that good, you cant be reckless like that and this happens far too often. Beside GSP/Serra this just dont happen against the present greats of this sport.


He showed the same flaws before tonight and the people hailing him as one of the p4p best weren't unaware of them. You weren't on to something that everybody else was missing.

Before the loss, this recklessness makes one "exciting". When it turns the wrong way, all of a sudden the guy's a hypejob.

I don't know, maybe you've been singing this tune all along, I honestly pay the MMA forum the least amount of attention, but something tells me there's going to be a bunch of two-faced fans suddenly whistling a new melody (as always happens in these situations..)

[Filmnpuck]

I give Bowles props, impressive. Hope he turns out to be the truly elite fighter at 135. He controlled that fight

How was the decision on the Curran/Miz fight? I didnt see.

I actually had it for Curran. In my opinion, he won the 2nd and 3rd rounds from his back.

[chimba]

He showed the same flaws before tonight and the people hailing him as one of the p4p best weren't unaware of them. You weren't on to something that everybody else was missing.

Before the loss, this recklessness makes one "exciting". When it turns the wrong way, all of a sudden the guy's a hypejob.

I don't know, maybe you've been singing this tune all along, I honestly pay the MMA forum the least amount of attention, but something tells me there's going to be a bunch of two-faced fans suddenly whistling a new melody (as always happens in these situations..)

Maybe Im a bit harsh, in his defense though, everyone 145 below is not tight with their striking Jens who I believe had teh best standup just got raped a couple times. thats why they are so exciting to watch... Id be honest I was never really a fan, sure the guy is a fuckin tornado and have a huge heart but someone is always going to eventually pip you in this sport if youre technically defficient in standup.

[IntentionalButt]

Maybe Im a bit harsh, in his defense though, everyone 145 below is not tight with their striking Jens who I believe had teh best standup just got raped a couple times. thats why they are so exciting to watch... Id be honest I was never really a fan, sure the guy is a fuckin tornado and have a huge heart but someone is always going to eventually pip you in this sport if youre technically defficient in standup.

Jens is also slipping in terms of his natural ability. Prime for prime against Faber would be a very interesting match...

I wouldn't rule out Bowles winning the majority (guy's a little ox), but in 10 fights I don't necessarily think he beats Torres 10 times. We'll have to watch how things develop...I just think Torres already has enough different areas of strength, it's clear that he has a well-rounded approach to training - I don't see why he couldn't mix in whatever tweaks and adjustments he needs to fill in the holes. As has been said, it may come down to how his confidence was affected in how he rebounds.

[jimmie]

I said before going in Bowles was Torres toughest fight. Bowles has showed in every bout so far against top guys like Riberio and Page that hes a complete badass.

[chimba]

beating Ribiero like that should give people a hint..the guys world class and honestly he was top 3 BW in the world even before this fight IMHO

[jimmie]

beating Ribiero like that should give people a hint..the guys world class and honestly he was top 3 BW in the world even before this fight IMHO

Well everyone was obsessed with Torres and with good reason but shit watch Bowles previous fights the guy shows really no weaknesses and destroys top level fighters like Damacio Page, Charlie Valencia, Will Riberio and Marcos Gavalo with ease.

[chimba]

and dont blame me for calling Torres a hype, Bowles mentioned the exact same words after the fight regarding Torres...problem for Torres is that Bowles is badass. He should fight Faber

[IntentionalButt]

I actually had it for Curran. In my opinion, he won the 2nd and 3rd rounds from his back.

Takeya still won the 2nd IMO - despite being helpless in that choke for the last minute - by getting the better of the standing exchanges and continuing to land at will in Jeff's guard until giving up his neck.

3rd was totally dominated by Curran...had he started that sequence in the last ninety seconds earlier in the round he could've netted the sub. I could see scoring that round 10-8 and calling it a draw.

[jimmie]

I gave the 1st to Curran because of the armbar attempt, the sweep and then briefly having mount and Mizugakis back. He easily won the 3rd round actually giving him a boxing lesson off his back and of course the Triangle. Mizugaki didnt do anything besides 3 takedowns but its MMA damnit not wrestling. Im sick of these judges just scoring for a guy whos on top doesnt matter what hes doing as long as hes on top. Like example how the fuck could a judge have scored Guida over Sanchez ? Thankfully only one judge screwed up and not 2 that night.

[cdnboxing]

I never understood the people saying Torres was a top P4P candidate. Hes definitely good and among the top 10 but saying hes among the best with Machida, Silva, GSP is a HUGE stretch.

I even heard people say hes one of the best strikers in the sport. Thats outrageous. With his striking deficiencies im surprised he didnt lose sooner.

[IntentionalButt]

I never understood the people saying Torres was a top P4P candidate. Hes definitely good and among the top 10 but saying hes among the best with Machida, Silva, GSP is a HUGE stretch.

I even heard people say hes one of the best strikers in the sport. Thats outrageous. With his striking deficiencies im surprised he didnt lose sooner.

If Chuck during his peak could be given the benefit of the doubt for p4p rating purposes as a beloved action fighter who's effective in spite of himself, I don't see why the more skilled MAT oughtn't have been afforded the same courtesy when he was just ripping guys apart left and right in spite of his defensive lapses/oversights.

[birdhead]

Yep! and miguel was starting to trash talk. Floyd Mayweather would have killed him if the first 3 rounds were "boxing only" as Torres proposed. In fact, Floyd would have knocked him unconscious under any rules. This Bowles dude, with all due respect, had 7 fights?

[jrow]

i cant believe people are already writting off torres...hell he had bowles rocked and went in with his hands down and got caught plain and simple,if he gets a rematch he will take it...but impresive win by bowles....and as far as faber goes he is not over rated he deserves all the hype he gets,he would have beat brown in the rematch if he didnt mess both his hands up....hell brown couldnt even finish faber when all he had was standing elbows and kicks how pathedic.....i bet if anderson silva lost most of yall would say he is over rated cuz yall just jump on the bandwagon when they win but when they lose you want off

[SouthpawSlayer]

he got laid out with a check hook, funny that as the master at this is one Floyd Jr, the same guy torres was calling out a week before his fight, should of stayed focused on bowles and not boxing mayweather, he was reckless and it seems his chin is quite poor, this was gonna happen sooner rather than later imo

[IntentionalButt]

Yep! and miguel was starting to trash talk. Floyd Mayweather would have killed him if the first 3 rounds were "boxing only" as Torres proposed. In fact, Floyd would have knocked him unconscious under any rules. This Bowles dude, with all due respect, had 7 fights?

8-0 (or 7-0 for that matter) in MMA does not mean the same thing as 8-0 in boxing...hell, it doesn't even mean the same as 18-0.

Half the guys Bowles beat were world class. It's nothing like in boxing, unless you're talking about a guy like Shumenov (who is the exception and not the rule)

Virtually all of the top p4p talents have at least a couple losses. It's a different sport. :good

[Sweet Pea]

I didn't originally buy into it. I thought it was nonsense that a guy fighting in such a weak division could be rated so high. Then as soon as I start warming up to him he turns in an un-inspiring performance against a pretty good Japanese fighter and gets KO'd by a guy named Bowles. Fuck me.

[IntentionalButt]

I didn't originally buy into it. I thought it was nonsense that a guy fighting in such a weak division could be rated so high. Then as soon as I start warming up to him he turns in an un-inspiring performance against a pretty good Japanese fighter and gets KO'd by a guy named Bowles. Fuck me.


Okay, granted he didn't exactly look like a miniature Silva, but surely you acknowledge Torres-Mizugaki as a FOTY frontrunner? Uninspiring, in that he didn't show as much multi-facetedness as you anticipated, or because he wasn't able to end it inside the distance?

The guy still has an elite level skill set, and having his frequent careless mistakes finally turn costly doesn't change that IMO. He's been proven to be beatable in his presumable prime and even with (and perhaps in part because of) his confidence peaking, but that doesn't mean he was all smoke and mirror hype without any substance.

[sugarngold]

Torres is still an elite fighter. He just got caught in a bad spot. It's not like he got starched by the first punch he was hit with. Bowles was a hungry fighter and showed that fights are always unpredictable.

[IntentionalButt]

Torres is still an elite fighter. He just got caught in a bad spot. It's not like he got starched by the first punch he was hit with. Bowles was a hungry fighter and showed that fights are always unpredictable.

This. :thumbsup

[jimmie]

Its this simple both Bowles and Torres are complete and total badass fighters. Something has to be said for Bowles a guy who has finished all 8 opponets. Charlie Valencia is a top 15-20 guy who had only been submitted by Faber at a higher weight then Bowles chokes him out as well. Marco Galavo was a little badass in the Shooto fights and had never been stopped then Bowles KTFO of him. Damacio Page another top 15-20 guy, real tough and trains with Jackson camp and Bowles choked him out. Will Riberio a legit top 10 fighter with Olympic Boxing skills and a BJJ Brown Belt so what does Bowles do ? Outboxes him then chokes him out. Then the Champ Torres never been stopped, rarely hurt, beat everyone hes fought and Bowles drops him not once but twice and buts him to fucking sleep for several minutes. Brian Bowles is the legit best 135 pounder out there not some fluke.

[Imperial1]

Hype ? The man hadn't lost in 5 yrs ..Dam talk about hate ..I can't wait for the rematch !!

[chimba]

Hype ? The man hadn't lost in 5 yrs ..Dam talk about hate ..I can't wait for the rematch !!

Bowles said he was hyped and he proved it. Id like to argue but I cant.

[TheBradyHawkes]

In a sport where records are pretty meaningless because of the high volume of good fighters that lose, his record is/was pretty remarkable. He is in no way, shape, or form a hype job. Re-match with Bowles....we'll see what happens.

[Beebs]

There was no hype involved, the guy dominated over a packed weightclass for a long time, and beat guys at their own game. He needs to work on his gameplaning a little, but to say that there ever was "hype" and that its now over is absurd.

[Beebs]

he got laid out with a check hook, funny that as the master at this is one Floyd Jr, the same guy torres was calling out a week before his fight, should of stayed focused on bowles and not boxing mayweather, he was reckless and it seems his chin is quite poor, this was gonna happen sooner rather than later imo

This is just complete horseshit.

He did get dropped by that shot, which was by no fucking means a "check hook" (god I hate that term, thank you Manny Stewart for letting a bunch of Floyd jockriders learn a term that sounds technical), it was a right hook as he was backing up. there was none of the nuance of an actual check hook, no pivot, no step around, but it wasn't what knocked him out.

He went straight for an armbar afterwords rather than recover, then got hit by a great right hand on the ground that put him more or less out, then a bunch of lefts for good measure.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

That's not a check hook, and it did not knock him out. He was hurt, but still in pretty good shape while going for the arm, it was that right hand on the ground that ended the fight.

If you think he has a bad chin go watch his fights with Mizugaki or Maeda. Or any fight in his career really.

[Beebs]

Yep! and miguel was starting to trash talk. Floyd Mayweather would have killed him if the first 3 rounds were "boxing only" as Torres proposed. In fact, Floyd would have knocked him unconscious under any rules. This Bowles dude, with all due respect, had 7 fights?

Under any rules? Smoking crack with Floyd's relatives?

[Mob]

Hey chimba.........the guy got caught. Do you know anything about MMA?

A guy goes 37-1 in MMA,...and his only loss was 6 years ago....and you start a thread like this insinuating that he was "exposed"?

[chimba]

Hey chimba.........the guy got caught. Do you know anything about MMA?

A guy goes 37-1 in MMA,...and his only loss was 6 years ago....and you start a thread like this insinuating that he was "exposed"?




I know more MMA than you thats for sure. But anyway, sloppy striking will get you exposed eventually. That 37-1..thats good and nice when you havent faced many good strikers who can take what you dish and exploit recklesssness. Ever heard of Anderson Silva, you think he throws punches wildly like Torres? And this kid had the nerve to call out Floyd (who I cant stand). Well Floyds laughing now.

Even Bowles who has a great chin but not the greatest standup almost beat him to death. Funny thing is Bowles first punch staggered Torres.

Now Bowles who isnt known for trash talking said that Torres was hyped way too much and people started to believe he was unstoppable but he never bought into the hype.

Now ask yourself, you wanna give Bowles a ring and ask him if he knows MMA.

Do you ever wonder why no one can keep their belt in these lower weights for more than 3 fights? Because they have glaring flaws in their game.

[Beebs]

Jesus, something personal against the guy?

He beat Maeda and Mizugaki, two of the better standup fighters in the division.

No his standup isn't as good as Silvas, but his ground gsme is much better; the gap between their ground games is peoba my bigger than their standing.

Bowles said what he could to fill the interview because there is really nothing negative about torres to say, and an an interview that is nothing but complimants is pretty rare.

What it really comes down to is that torres always tries to put on wars, so he let's the other guy fight his fight; he really needs to reconsider his not taking people down. Training with a new striking coach probably didn't help either.

If their are so many glarig holes in his game why couldn't Maeda or Mizugaki beat him standing?

Most of all your logic on the lower divisions makes no sense; the reason that you don't see many long term champs is because the guys move promotions often; until recently they haven't been very big draws and woould fight wherever they could. Whether he held the belt or not, Torres was the best 135er in the world for a while, so was Faber at 145.

Also how is a lot of title changes any more of a sign of flawed fighters any more than one guy being able to beat everybody? It could just as easily show that all the fighters are very good and the weightclass is so deep that a large number of fighters are championship material. If the amazingly talented Jose Aldo wins the belt off Brown, it has a lot more to do with their being several world class fighters in that division than it does about holes in peoples games.

[chimba]

Torres is a good fighter, never said he isnt. Never said he was exposed. I just said he was way too hyped just like Faber was (who aint never beating Brown) Hes not as good as "your" top 4 p4p list and hes not as good as Hendo or even the likes of Kenflo. You have to remember the hype for this kid...top 4 sometimes 3..while guys like Bowles isnt even top 20. Torres BJJ is excellent but his striking skills, Ive always felt that an explosive, strong bruising guy in the Mike Brown mold can give him problems.

Bowles as good as he is new to MMA..God he almost finished him up with his first punch.

I'll buy into Torres if he can pull out a GSP kind "after a loss" statement after this

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

It was a very exciting fight. I don't see why the hype is over. Getting knocked out doesn't change what Torres has already done. To me it looked like he just got a little too aggressive and left himself open for that right hand counter. Rather than try to regain his senses he immediately transitioned into an armbar attempt but Bowles kept the heat on and finished him off with some monster shots. I think that it's rather obvious how talented Torres is... so why does getting knocked out change that? When you fight that many times at that level, it's only a matter of time before you lose. It doesn't matter who you are.

[québecwarrior]

Torres is still top 10 P4P. He can beat Bowles. He got caught.

[IntentionalButt]

Torres is still top 10 P4P. He can beat Bowles. He got caught.

Unless he makes some major adjustments, he still loses at least 5-6 in a series of ten fights against Bowles right now. But yes - the point is he can beat Bowles (even as-is). People are too quick to laugh off a rematch when a guy errs and gets caught cold by a very powerful puncher.

The rematch and Mizugaki-Cruz are not only the two best BW fights to be made right now, IMO - they could wind up in direct competition for FOTY.

[Beebs]

Torres is a good fighter, never said he isnt. Never said he was exposed. I just said he was way too hyped just like Faber was (who aint never beating Brown) Hes not as good as "your" top 4 p4p list and hes not as good as Hendo or even the likes of Kenflo. You have to remember the hype for this kid...top 4 sometimes 3..while guys like Bowles isnt even top 20. Torres BJJ is excellent but his striking skills, Ive always felt that an explosive, strong bruising guy in the Mike Brown mold can give him problems.

Bowles as good as he is new to MMA..God he almost finished him up with his first punch.

I'll buy into Torres if he can pull out a GSP kind "after a loss" statement after this
Not better then florian? Really?

Torres dominated a division for several years, beating the best there was around; florian has lost two title fights; one of which was for an empty belt rather than against a reigning titleist.

[hopkinsfan07]

He was overrated for sure, People had him like 4 P4P but i never fought he was good enough to be there.

[Grievesy]

He's still top 10 P4P material imo. So he got KOed? Shit happens in this sport and even the best lose (unless your name's Fedor). GSP got KOed by Serra. Silva was subbed by Chonan and Takase. Not to mention that Bowles is a very good fighter.

And i don't think he was overhyped too much either. He was undefeated since 2003 and had beaten a good few top contenders in the BW division without too many problems. We've just gotta wait and see if he bounces back, which I'm sure he will.

Although I would like to see him go back to using his best tools, his BJJ. He got to 37-1 with 22 submissions, he's clearly good at it. He needs to tone done the Mexican macho stuff.

[BewareofDawg]

Torres is still top 10 P4P. He can beat Bowles. He got caught.
Found ya :yep

Now be a nice little boy and go to the Avatar bet thread and get the text you have to put in your location for a month :hi:

[zarman]

i bet GSP had the same shit talked about him when he lost! the better fighter doesn't always win, do i really need to show examples? it happens!

[hopkinsfan07]

i bet GSP had the same shit talked about him when he lost! the better fighter doesn't always win, do i really need to show examples? it happens!


People still bring up the Sera fight...and for good reason it showed a real flaw in his game being knocked out by a non puncher (Rogan seems to think he has hands of stone)

[BewareofDawg]

People still bring up the Sera fight...and for good reason it showed a real flaw in his game being knocked out by a non puncher (Rogan seems to think he has hands of stone)
Flaw in his game? he got hit in the back of the head with a looping haymaker, with small MMA gloves. No Flaw, it happens. :deal

[chimba]

i bet GSP had the same shit talked about him when he lost! the better fighter doesn't always win, do i really need to show examples? it happens!

If you rewatch that fight, GSP got hit in the back of the head first then got hit flush to the face about 5 more times by bombs and didnt go down..he finally did but he was never out in that fight. Please dont compare Torres to GSP.

Torres almost got KTFO from Bowles first punch. Or was I watching something different? Bowles is the type that would beat Torres most of the time with his strength and ability to absorb what Torres can dish. He took him down at will. You have to remember that Bowles aint that great of a striker, he has a heavy punch but suffers from the same defficiencies that Torres does technically.

Again it was Bowles who mentioned hype..I was merely extrapolating

[Beebs]

you still have to get hit to get hit illegally, it's not like it was intentional; gsp leaned forward a little and got a forearm to the back of the head, had he not done that it looked like it would have landed clean.

Obviosuly it's no the same situation; on one hand Torres was beat far more convincingly, but on the other Bowles was actually a #1 contended in his proper weightclass.

I see what you mean about Bowles saying hype, but he had to say something in the interview other than how good Torres is. Torres did deserve his ranking, and now he deserves to lose it. Rankings aren't neccesarily their to predict the future, they also have to be a reward for what you have done. The way Torres dominated his division, the dominance he showed, and the ability to beat guys at their own game earned him his spot, it was not just a hype job; I don't think you are quite saying it was all hype though.

[SouthpawSlayer]

This is just complete horseshit.

He did get dropped by that shot, which was by no fucking means a "check hook" (god I hate that term, thank you Manny Stewart for letting a bunch of Floyd jockriders learn a term that sounds technical), it was a right hook as he was backing up. there was none of the nuance of an actual check hook, no pivot, no step around, but it wasn't what knocked him out.

He went straight for an armbar afterwords rather than recover, then got hit by a great right hand on the ground that put him more or less out, then a bunch of lefts for good measure.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

That's not a check hook, and it did not knock him out. He was hurt, but still in pretty good shape while going for the arm, it was that right hand on the ground that ended the fight.

If you think he has a bad chin go watch his fights with Mizugaki or Maeda. Or any fight in his career really.


good shape going for the arm are you nuts had he pulled guard rather than go fo the arm he would have delayed getting koed for a lot longer, he was that out of it he went for the arm which turned into a pathetic attempt and which ultimately resulted in bowles landing the last finishing shots

im just saying how torres was calling out one of the best boxers in the world at a boxing and mma fight then 2 weeks later he gets koed by a guy in his very next fight who had only 10 fights, torres should of kept his mouth shut and focused on his next fight like most other elite mma fighters who had fights recently

[ufoalf]

Torres would still would Floyds ass in MMA, this fight don't say shit about that
.

[Polymath]

Holy, that reminded me of the early ufcs when guys would take 4 shots after they were out. Dangerous. Hope hes OK.

[ChrisKim47]

I watched Torres' fights , but haven't seen his loss. Honestly I always laughed at the guy cause he was considered one of the p4p kings of mma. He has no wrestling technique and hits like a pansy.
By the way, Faber is a complete badass, he just got caught throwing a hilarious spinning backfist by a guy who threw a haymaker with his head down.

[Grievesy]

I watched Torres' fights , but haven't seen his loss. Honestly I always laughed at the guy cause he was considered one of the p4p kings of mma. He has no wrestling technique and hits like a pansy.
By the way, Faber is a complete badass, he just got caught throwing a hilarious spinning backfist by a guy who threw a haymaker with his head down.

So what happened in the rematch then?

[hopkinsfan07]

Flaw in his game? he got hit in the back of the head with a looping haymaker, with small MMA gloves. No Flaw, it happens. :deal


:lol: sure happens all the time from feather fisted fighters, GSP showed a flaw by tapping like a bitch too :good

[chimba]

:lol: sure happens all the time from feather fisted fighters, GSP showed a flaw by tapping like a bitch too :good

Thats one thing that will haunt GSP forever, tapping from strikes

[cdnboxing]

I know more MMA than you thats for sure. But anyway, sloppy striking will get you exposed eventually. That 37-1..thats good and nice when you havent faced many good strikers who can take what you dish and exploit recklesssness. Ever heard of Anderson Silva, you think he throws punches wildly like Torres? And this kid had the nerve to call out Floyd (who I cant stand). Well Floyds laughing now.

Even Bowles who has a great chin but not the greatest standup almost beat him to death. Funny thing is Bowles first punch staggered Torres.

Now Bowles who isnt known for trash talking said that Torres was hyped way too much and people started to believe he was unstoppable but he never bought into the hype.

Now ask yourself, you wanna give Bowles a ring and ask him if he knows MMA.

Do you ever wonder why no one can keep their belt in these lower weights for more than 3 fights? Because they have glaring flaws in their game.

In all fairness, I dont even think Floyd knows who Torres is.

[cdnboxing]

Torres is still top 10 P4P. He can beat Bowles. He got caught.

Can people please stop saying "he got caught."

Torres didnt get caught, he lost. Bowles won that round and he won that fight.

[Fighting Pride]

haha, some carnt had a go at me on ere for not incuding Torres in my top 5 p4p, which I thought was pretty clear cut (in Silva, GSP, Fedor, Machida, Penn)