Greatest fighters ever per weight class

[Bill Butcher]

Lightweight - BJ Penn (cemented)
Welterweight - Matt Hughes (GSP can overtake)
Middleweight - Kazushi Sakuraba (Anderson Silva can overtake)
Lt-Heavyweight - Wanderlei Silva (Chuck Liddell could be argued, Shogun, Rampage, Machida have time to overtake)
Heavyweight - Fedor Emelianenko (cemented)

P4P & GOAT - Fedor Emelianenko (Gonna take something borderline miraculous to top him, he`s very far ahead at the moment IMHO)

[Grievesy]

I think by the end of their careers both GSP and Anderson Silva will have taken over Hughes and Sakuraba respectively and possibly already could have.

[socrates]

penn
gsp
silva
lidell
fedor

[Stoo]

Lightweight - BJ Penn (cemented)
Welterweight - Matt Hughes (GSP can overtake)
Middleweight - Kazushi Sakuraba (Anderson Silva can overtake)
Lt-Heavyweight - Wanderlei Silva (Chuck Liddell could be argued, Shogun, Rampage, Machida have time to overtake)
Heavyweight - Fedor Emelianenko (cemented)

P4P & GOAT - Fedor Emelianenko (Gonna take something borderline miraculous to top him, he`s very far ahead at the moment IMHO)

I agree Bill, but Silva and GSP WILL overtake Saku & Hughes imo

[codeman99998]

I think there should be no debate that GSP has overtaken Hughes. He has beaten better fighters than Hughes has, and he beat Hughes himself twice. Hughes beat Trigg twice, but GSP's victory over Trigg was far more decisive than Hughes' who had almost lost. GSP beat Penn twice and Hughes went 1 and 1 with Penn, and didn't look great even in the fight that he beat Penn who had gassed badly. They both have a win over Sherk. Not to mention that GSP went 2 and 1 against Hughes.

[Stoo]

I think there should be no debate that GSP has overtaken Hughes. He has beaten better fighters than Hughes has, and he beat Hughes himself twice. Hughes beat Trigg twice, but GSP's victory over Trigg was far more decisive than Hughes' who had almost lost. GSP beat Penn twice and Hughes went 1 and 1 with Penn, and didn't look great even in the fight that he beat Penn who had gassed badly. They both have a win over Sherk. Not to mention that GSP went 2 and 1 against Hughes.

+ the wins over Fitch and Thiago

[BewareofDawg]

I think there should be no debate that GSP has overtaken Hughes. He has beaten better fighters than Hughes has, and he beat Hughes himself twice. Hughes beat Trigg twice, but GSP's victory over Trigg was far more decisive than Hughes' who had almost lost. GSP beat Penn twice and Hughes went 1 and 1 with Penn, and didn't look great even in the fight that he beat Penn who had gassed badly. They both have a win over Sherk. Not to mention that GSP went 2 and 1 against Hughes.
I'm in complete agreement with you. Hughes also fought in an era that was much less evolved and competitive then GSP's. Hughes I don't think ever would have beaten Fitch or Alves, even in his prime. GSP is GOAT at Welterweight.

[BewareofDawg]

+ the wins over Fitch and Thiago
And even Koscheck. Head to Head, I'd put Kos up against anyone else on Hughes's resume besides BJ and GSP.

[Stoo]

And even Koscheck. Head to Head, I'd put Kos up against anyone else on Hughes's resume besides BJ and GSP.

I forgot about Kos, them 3 werent just wins, they were domination.

[PR p4p #1]

mma is for gay redneck kids

[BewareofDawg]

I forgot about Kos, them 3 werent just wins, they were domination.
Thats the other point. He has DOMINATED everybody he has ever faced. Even Hughes, Serra and Penn who either beat him or came damn close in their first fights with him, were dominated in one-sided beatdowns in all the rematches.

[Beebs]

I would say you almost have to put Anderson ahead of Sakuraba; Sak wasn't actually a Middleweight fighter, he just could have been. His best fights didn't take place in the 185 division.

[BewareofDawg]

mma is for gay redneck kids
Anderson Silva disagrees with you

[Stoo]

mma is for gay redneck kids

And lame insults are for fat keyboard warriors. Yo Momma can talk dirtier than that!!!

[Bill Butcher]

I would say you almost have to put Anderson ahead of Sakuraba; Sak wasn't actually a Middleweight fighter, he just could have been. His best fights didn't take place in the 185 division.

Very true, but I do feel he was the greatest natural 185 lber ever, fighting & beating LHWTs shouldnt be held against him, it should be an argument for him.... he did afterall weigh 185 himself while fighting these guys, he never bulked up, so technically HE was a MWT kicking the shit out of the worlds top LHWTs.

I dont think what Anderson has done so far as a MWT is enough to topple Saku but he is closing in... if he gave up his MWT career right now & moved permenantly to 205, Id have Saku still ahead as a MWT personally... its certainly not crazy to have Silva as your no1 tho, he is terrific.

[Sweet Pea]

GSP is already WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than Hughes ever was.

[Bill Butcher]

GSP is already WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than Hughes ever was.

He certainly is a better fighter, no doubt... Hughes was highly dominant in that class tho, another few good wins at WWT ought to see GSP oust him - I much prefer GSP stylewise, never was a fan of Hughes TBH.

[Vitor Belfort]

Lightweight - BJ Penn (cemented)
Welterweight - Matt Hughes (GSP can overtake)
Middleweight - Kazushi Sakuraba (Anderson Silva can overtake)
Lt-Heavyweight - Wanderlei Silva (Chuck Liddell could be argued, Shogun, Rampage, Machida have time to overtake)
Heavyweight - Fedor Emelianenko (cemented)

P4P & GOAT - Fedor Emelianenko (Gonna take something borderline miraculous to top him, he`s very far ahead at the moment IMHO)

I can't see anybody being better than penn right now at 155.
GSP right now i think should be ranked higher than hughes at 170.
Silva is up there with sakuraba right now. He has been dominating all his opponents from 185-205.
Wanderlei was a beast during his prime. Machida is probably the only fighter that i can see that can overtake him as being the greatest at 205.
Heavyweight i just can't see anybody right now that can be better than fedor.

[Beebs]

GSP is already WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than Hughes ever was.

Best and greatest aren't neccesarily the same; if you consider title fights, which you have to in a discussion like this, then it's not so clear.

GSP has a better career if you ignore the issue of title defenses, but the added pressure, higher competition relative to the rest of the division, and even just the 2 extra rounds does make title fights matter more.

GSP doesn't neccesarily need to match title defenses because the rest of his resume is better, but he is probably two title defenses away from passing Hughes overall.

[Sweet Pea]

Best and greatest aren't neccesarily the same; if you consider title fights, which you have to in a discussion like this, then it's not so clear.

GSP has a better career if you ignore the issue of title defenses, but the added pressure, higher competition relative to the rest of the division, and even just the 2 extra rounds does make title fights matter more.

GSP doesn't neccesarily need to match title defenses because the rest of his resume is better, but he is probably two title defenses away from passing Hughes overall.If you're basing it solely on title defenses, then yeah. But on quality of opposition, performance against that opposition, and just overall skill level especially, GSP has him licked. Yes, Hughes was very dominant, but he never consistently dominated the level of fighters GSP has been doing, nor was he ever as impressive or anywhere near as complete. Based on a combination of factors, GSP is already far Hughes's superior, IMO.

[Beebs]

If you're basing it solely on title defenses, then yeah. But on quality of opposition, performance against that opposition, and just overall skill level especially, GSP has him licked. Yes, Hughes was very dominant, but he never consistently dominated the level of fighters GSP has been doing, nor was he ever as impressive or anywhere near as complete. Based on a combination of factors, GSP is already far Hughes's superior, IMO.

Not solely title defenses, but that has to be a large part of it. GSP doesn't have to match him title defense wise, but a few more would help cement his spot past Hughes.

The level of quality was just as good in relation to the sport. It is a pretty fair and easy argument to say that MMA has gotten better and produced better fighters, but in terms of fighting the best available, Hughes did the same thing GSP is doing, fought the best guys there.

Another thing, as of now, in Hughes favor slightly is longevity; Hughes had a 5 year run as the man, although that loss to BJ was in the middle. GSP has had about 3 years as the absolute #1 guy, with the loss to Serra in the middle.

I still think that if GSP quit today he would be remembered as the clearly superior fighter ability wise, and nearly as accomplished, but without a few more good wins I don't think you can say he passes Hughes in terms of all around, everything considered, greatness. Even if you can say GSP was overal the greater fighterYou certainly can't say "far superier" yet.

The day will absolutely come when GSP is considered greater than Hughes, all aspects considered, even if he doesn't match every record. I think two absolutely great wins, or 3 or 4 wins of any kind really will put him at the undisputed GOAT.

[jimmie]

Confused on why Wanderlei would be ranked higher then Liddell. Liddell beat IMO the better competition which includes Wanderlei himself.

[ufoalf]

Today's fighters will always be more skillful, because the sport is growing so fast. I promise you the likes of Marciano wouldn't do so well today against cruisers or even middleweights. The boxing is just much more refined today.
In terms of all time greatness the time period must be considered. Matt Hughes dominated his division for a quite while against top notch opponents, until Penn showed up.

[hopkinsfan07]

Confused on why Wanderlei would be ranked higher then Liddell. Liddell beat IMO the better competition which includes Wanderlei himself.



Was gonna say that man, Liddell had a better LHW run....tbh i think W.Silva is very overrated in terms of skills. Liddell was a much better striker.

[Kaz_187]

Confused on why Wanderlei would be ranked higher then Liddell. Liddell beat IMO the better competition which includes Wanderlei himself.wow lidell beat a past his best w silva who had already been ko'd a few times before he gt to chuck and silva still gave him fits in that fight,the same w silva who in his prime destroyed rampage 2wice and took a prime cro crop the distance,silva is the greatest lh ever with liddell close but clear 2nd:deal

[Beebs]

wow lidell beat a past his best w silva who had already been ko'd a few times before he gt to chuck and silva still gave him fits in that fight,the same w silva who in his prime destroyed rampage 2wice and took a prime cro crop the distance,silva is the greatest lh ever with liddell close but clear 2nd:deal

The Liddell vs Silva fight itself was just a cherry on top. They were both past their best.

Liddell has far more top names on his list than Silva does; just as Liddell lost to Rampage, Silva lost to Arona, arguably both times.

It's close either way, but if you considered caliber of opponents actually beaten, then it has to be Liddell.

[jimmie]

wow lidell beat a past his best w silva who had already been ko'd a few times before he gt to chuck and silva still gave him fits in that fight,the same w silva who in his prime destroyed rampage 2wice and took a prime cro crop the distance,silva is the greatest lh ever with liddell close but clear 2nd:deal

Yeah and that verison of Chuck was some spring chicken to right ? Getting beatdown by Jardine and stopped cold by Rampage isnt exactly much better then Wanderleis 2 previous fights when he was laid out. Both where past it and Chuck won it and so what about fits ? Chuck hurt him badly several times and scored 3 takedowns. Chuck clearly won all 3 rounds although it wasnt dominant he still clearly won the fight and scored more damage. Wanderleis resume at 205 cant touch Chucks his best wins where vs Mezger(Chuck did the same),Hendo,Rampage 2x,Arona 1-1,very much smaller Sakuraba and Jardine. Now of course Rampage and Jardine own wins over Chuck but lets not forget Chuck defeating Ortiz 2x or Belfort who know a thing about beating Wanderlei. Throw in Couture 2x,Babalu 2x,Horn,Overeem,Bustamante,Monson,Randleman.