Why do so many American fighters claim foul play

[lefthook31]

When they fight overseas. We've heard all the stories, and weve heard Wladmir Klitschko say the same thing when he fought in the states, but you hear it alot more from guys who went overseas, and now Harris is claiming foul play and poor treatment. Are they just cheaters? :hey

[PH|LLA]

Holt also....

They do it in other sports also

i mean everyone does it, not just americans.

And then look what they do to guys like Felix Sturm

[Dr Gonzo]

alot of boxers claim foul play when fighting abroad - dodgy judging and strange decisions dont help this urban myth one bit ie. Green vs Bayer I

[Boro chris]

When they fight overseas. We've heard all the stories, and weve heard Wladmir Klitschko say the same thing when he fought in the states, but you hear it alot more from guys who went overseas, and now Harris is claiming foul play and poor treatment. Are they just cheaters? :hey

Whats Harris been saying then?

[KayEpps]

Most American fighters don't think they will get a fair chance over seas. Regardless to whether it's true or not - it's what most of them believe.

It's the Fear of Home-Cooking. Judges in favor of their countryman. I think it's all BS - but if you believe it - it's hard for someone else to tell you different.

[Boro chris]

Ok just heard what Harris has been saying. Unfuckenbelieveable!

Just for once I'd like to hear a boxer say "Well he was just a bit too good for me" instead of making silly excuses.

[Marnoff]

What exactly did Harris say? Poisoned? Someone bang on his door in the middle of the night and wake him up?

[SteveO]

Ok just heard what Harris has been saying. Unfuckenbelieveable!

Just for once I'd like to hear a boxer say "Well he was just a bit too good for me" instead of making silly excuses.
But he wasn't too good. Harris was poisoned. Witter dressed as a bell hop Or it was voodoo. Or sickness. Or a short count. But Harris WAS the better fighter. Vivian Harris ordered some room service, some shepherd's pie, I believe, Witter was hiding out in the kitchen dressed as a bellhop. He slipped some sedatives in Harris' pie (or maybe his water) when he delivered it.

[Boro chris]

What exactly did Harris say? Poisoned? Someone bang on his door in the middle of the night and wake him up?

Theres another thread about it on the general forum.
Apparently Witter must be cheating coz he hit him hard. Poor little baby!:patsch :rofl

[lefthook31]

Even some of the stoppages are complete garbage. Not to say Calzahge was not beating Manfredo and Sheika handily, but the ref just steps in and stops the fights, almost to the point of being ridiculous.

[lefthook31]

Theres another thread about it on the general forum.
Apparently Witter must be cheating coz he hit him hard. Poor little baby!:patsch :rofl

Maybe he had brass knuckles under his hand wraps. :p They are supposed to allow a member of the other fighters camp to watch the handwrapping, so they dont cheat.

[The Kurgan]

Because, these days, American fight fans are often male prostitutes, and abandon a boxer the moment he loses. That's why they don't have boxers like Frank Bruno, Alex Arthur or Wladimir Klitschko, who lost only to learn and develop into world champions. Jeff Lacy was practically dumped overnight, and will never be a superstar again, but with proper fan support he could be a world champion again.

The only way for American boxers to escape this fate is to have a good excuse. If American fans were as fiercly loyal as fans in other countries, then American boxers wouldn't have to spout so much bullshit to try to save their careers.

After all, that's how it used to be- Americans didn't lose all hope in Joe Louis just because he lost to Max Schmeling, and as a result they got arguably the best heavyweight ever. Aside from not being labelled "whores", the reward for loyal fans is that their boxers often learn from their loss and improve. Not everyone can be an undefeated boxer; in fact, probably less than 0.01% of all boxers ever have had less than two losses.

[AmazingHook]

Theres another thread about it on the general forum.
Apparently Witter must be cheating coz he hit him hard. Poor little baby!:patsch :rofl

Go to Boxing.......talk:yep and read the whole interview with the pathetic Vivian Harris (You don't have to be a member). Harris sounds like a real PUNK.:-(

[lefthook31]

Because, these days, American fight fans are often male prostitutes, and abandon a boxer the moment he loses. That's why they don't have boxers like Frank Bruno, Alex Arthur or Wladimir Klitschko, who lost only to learn and develop into world champions. Jeff Lacy was practically dumped overnight, and will never be a superstar again, but with proper fan support he could be a world champion again.

The only way for American boxers to escape this fate is to have a good excuse. If American fans were as fiercly loyal as fans in other countries, then American boxers wouldn't have to spout so much bullshit to try to save their careers.

After all, that's how it used to be- Americans didn't lose all hope in Joe Louis just because he lost to Max Schmeling, and as a result they got arguably the best heavyweight ever. Aside from not being labelled "whores", the reward for loyal fans is that their boxers often learn from their loss and improve. Not everyone can be an undefeated boxer; in fact, probably less than 0.01% of all boxers ever have had less than two losses.

While I agree, the promoters and managers of fighters over here are complete whores, the fans overseas have to be some of the most ignorant boxing fans Ive ever seen. Thats why guys like Frank ****** can sell out fights like Calzahge Mcentire, Tyson Francis, and the fans think its a credible fight. The fans over here are much more knowledgeable about whats a real fight and whats simply an exhibition type fight.

[lefthook31]

No the fans arnt ignorant! They just back thier fighter whatever! Unlike yourselves!

No their ignorant, because they get on here and claim greatness everytime they beat a shot fighter.

[The Kurgan]

While I agree, the promoters and managers of fighters over here are complete whores, the fans overseas have to be some of the most ignorant boxing fans Ive ever seen. Thats why guys like Frank ****** can sell out fights like Calzahge Mcentire, Tyson Francis, and the fans think its a credible fight.

But here's the thing- the overseas method gets results with limited talent. There is no way a nation the size of the UK should have so many world class boxers; the reason why is because prospects like David Haye, Junior Witter and Alex Arthur weren't dumped the first time they lost.

The fans over here are much more knowledgeable about whats a real fight and whats simply an exhibition type fight.

How many fans in the US bought Mayweather-Baldomir? :hey

[lefthook31]

But here's the thing- the overseas method gets results with limited talent. There is no way a nation the size of the UK should have so many world class boxers; the reason why is because prospects like David Haye, Junior Witter and Alex Arthur weren't dumped the first time they lost.



How many fans in the US bought Mayweather-Baldomir? :hey

I dont really understand the point of your first statement. If I understand you correctly your saying that fighting stiffs gets results as far as putting fans in seats, but to me boxing is more about being a credible champion than being a showcase. We call that wrestling here in the states.
As far as Baldomir, he beat Judah and then beat Gatti, and actually held the title when he fought Mayweather. Floyd was moving up to welterweight to fight for his title. Baldomir certainly earned his title and then gave Mayweather a shot at it, hardly comparable to a guy like Calzahge fighting a club fighter from middle america in Will Mcentire.

[The Kurgan]

I dont really understand the point of your first statement. If I understand you correctly your saying that fighting stiffs gets results as far as putting fans in seats, but to me boxing is more about being a credible champion than being a showcase. We call that wrestling here in the states.

That's perhaps what boxing SHOULD be about, but isn't.

As far as Baldomir, he beat Judah and then beat Gatti, and actually held the title when he fought Mayweather. Floyd was moving up to welterweight to fight for his title. Baldomir certainly earned his title and then gave Mayweather a shot at it, hardly comparable to a guy like Calzahge fighting a club fighter from middle america in Will Mcentire.

But the American public put forth PPV money to watch Mayweather's certain victory. The British public didnt pay anything to watch Calzaghe-McIntyre, and the seats were probably dirt cheap as well.

[Brickhaus]

But the American public put forth PPV money to watch Mayweather's certain victory. The British public didnt pay anything to watch Calzaghe-McIntyre, and the seats were probably dirt cheap as well.

I doubt the seats were THAT cheap, it was on the Tyson/Nielsen undercard....

[lefthook31]

That's perhaps what boxing SHOULD be about, but isn't.



But the American public put forth PPV money to watch Mayweather's certain victory. The British public didnt pay anything to watch Calzaghe-McIntyre, and the seats were probably dirt cheap as well.

My point is Baldomir proved to be a worthy challenger unlike "Kid Fire, Mcentire" Baldomir beat Judah who was supposed to fight Mayweather next, than destroyed Gatti, all the while having the WBC title he lifted from Judah. Kid McEntire came off the dairy farm and was flown into Denmark as the sacrificial lamb.
As for Mayweather his fight with Baldomir did horribly, because even though he is considered the worlds best, it takes an opponent like Oscar or Gatti to really get the fans to shell out money for a PPV or even to go to the fight, whereas Hatton could fight a shot fighter in Ben Tackie, and the fans would overstuff the MEN.

[thesandman]

While I agree, the promoters and managers of fighters over here are complete whores, the fans overseas have to be some of the most ignorant boxing fans Ive ever seen. Thats why guys like Frank ****** can sell out fights like Calzahge Mcentire, Tyson Francis, and the fans think its a credible fight. The fans over here are much more knowledgeable about whats a real fight and whats simply an exhibition type fight.

ODLH v Yori Boy Campas?
Floyd v Gatti? Mitchell?
Hopkins v ODLH??? ;)

And if Hopkins v Wright wasn't an exhibition type fight, then I really, really don't know what is.

Shall I go on?

[Manjanek]

Because shady tactics exist overseas. Enter:The Kendall Holt vs Torres debacle. Hit in the head with a full can of beer.... pulled on the legs when knocked down- or ANY ricky hatton fight where he is allowed to greco roman wrestle his opponent- or any fight in a country that a victory ends in a riot.
It's really not that they complain that there is foul play- it is just that the odds are certainly slanted in the other's favor. But really I say that it is just homefield advantage (with the exception of if it physicially lessens a boxer's physical status [for instance a beer can to the face]) But I think Heckling outside of the ring is fine and the like. It is when a boxer has early weigh ins... or the countryman from the foreign country has unchecked gloves (Harris vs witter) that you really can raise an eyebrow and give speculation as to the shadiness of the circumstances.

[thesandman]

Because shady tactics exist overseas. Enter:The Kendall Holt vs Torres debacle. Hit in the head with a full can of beer.... pulled on the legs when knocked down- or ANY ricky hatton fight where he is allowed to greco roman wrestle his opponent- or any fight in a country that a victory ends in a riot.
It's really not that they complain that there is foul play- it is just that the odds are certainly slanted in the other's favor. But really I say that it is just homefield advantage (with the exception of if it physicially lessens a boxer's physical status [for instance a beer can to the face]) But I think Heckling outside of the ring is fine and the like. It is when a boxer has early weigh ins... or the countryman from the foreign country has unchecked gloves (Harris vs witter) that you really can raise an eyebrow and give speculation as to the shadiness of the circumstances.

Are you saying shady tactics/influences don't happen in the US?

Because I think there are just as many examples of Non US fighters getting screwed in the US as vice versa.

["TKO"]

Because shady tactics exist overseas. Enter:The Kendall Holt vs Torres debacle. Hit in the head with a full can of beer.... pulled on the legs when knocked down- or ANY ricky hatton fight where he is allowed to greco roman wrestle his opponent- or any fight in a country that a victory ends in a riot.
It's really not that they complain that there is foul play- it is just that the odds are certainly slanted in the other's favor. But really I say that it is just homefield advantage (with the exception of if it physicially lessens a boxer's physical status [for instance a beer can to the face]) But I think Heckling outside of the ring is fine and the like. It is when a boxer has early weigh ins... or the countryman from the foreign country has unchecked gloves (Harris vs witter) that you really can raise an eyebrow and give speculation as to the shadiness of the circumstances.

Anybody who gives any credence to Harris's claims of shady circumstances is, IMO, an idiot. It is pretty obvious to me that he has desperately been hunting round for the first excuse he can find just so people will actually bother to watch him again! If his cornermen were supposed to watch Witter's hands wrapped and didn't then whose fault is that? A cynic might say it could have been done deliberately as a ready-made excuse!

[mad_takamura]

because their dicks go well with their ego?

[HitBattousai]

The ratio is different in America. There are plenty of dodgy decisions/antics here, but it's also by far the biggest stage for boxing, in terms of actual scope and variety of nationalities, and circumstances of fights generally receive more press, so bad decisions are less likely to occur(even though they still do). The fewer times a US fighter or a fighter of some other nationality has gone to fight in say, Germany, there's a better chance that something sketchy might occur in that situation than a fighter coming to America. Green/Beyer I, Ruiz/Valuev, etc, etc. The majority of the time this isn't the case, but the ratio is higher imo.

That said, I don't think there was any foul play involved in Witter/Harris.

[David UK]

Because, these days, American fight fans are often male prostitutes, and abandon a boxer the moment he loses. That's why they don't have boxers like Frank Bruno, Alex Arthur or Wladimir Klitschko, who lost only to learn and develop into world champions. Jeff Lacy was practically dumped overnight, and will never be a superstar again, but with proper fan support he could be a world champion again.

The only way for American boxers to escape this fate is to have a good excuse. If American fans were as fiercly loyal as fans in other countries, then American boxers wouldn't have to spout so much bullshit to try to save their careers.

After all, that's how it used to be- Americans didn't lose all hope in Joe Louis just because he lost to Max Schmeling, and as a result they got arguably the best heavyweight ever. Aside from not being labelled "whores", the reward for loyal fans is that their boxers often learn from their loss and improve. Not everyone can be an undefeated boxer; in fact, probably less than 0.01% of all boxers ever have had less than two losses.

Very astute post. You're absolutely 100%correct and extremely perceptive Mr Kurgan!! Americans always dump their 'losers'

[Manjanek]

Oh, and that´s never the case the other way round?

I am not saying it doesn't happen the other way around. In fact, it DOES happen to foreign fighters in America. Even AMERICAN fighters in AMERICA get played for fools. Boxing is a corrupt sport, unfortunately! That being said, American fighters have something a lot of other countries don't have. Mass Media to voice their complaints and grievances. All of these boxingtalks and doghouses and esb-ings are primarily American run and therefore can meet and interview with the fighters here more often.

All fighters who lose try to put a positive spin on the loss- or try to play it off to having an off night or foul play. Very rarely do we see a fighter say "Yeah, I lost to someone who is a better fighter than me. The ref called a good fight and I got beat." until the end of someone's career.

[lefthook31]

Lets look at the last few fights involving Americans going overseas.

Wittier had brass knuckles under his hand wraps
Calzhage had rolls of quarters under his handwraps against Lacy
Wladmir slipped a roofy in ray Austins water bottle
and he also rubbed poision ivy on his gloves against Chris Byrd.
Cheating is just more acceptable overseas.

[Brickhaus]

Lets look at the last few fights involving Americans going overseas.

Wittier had brass knuckles under his hand wraps
Calzhage had rolls of quarters under his handwraps against Lacy
Wladmir slipped a roofy in ray Austins water bottle
and he also rubbed poision ivy on his gloves against Chris Byrd.
Cheating is just more acceptable overseas.

I guess that was to counteract Byrd putting vaseline on his gloves against Vitali...

Also, don't forget about the beer can that hit Holt in the head, although some people claim to have actually seen that one...

[Danny Ocean]

harris aint aMERICAN

holt was robbed

[lefthook31]

You really don´t need help to make yourself look foolish.

And you really need help to realize Im joking.:deal

[Quik]

Yea right germany is a joke most of the time. Look at Lucas-Beyer, Green-Beyer, the rest time they gave to AA when Miranda broke is jaw was a real joke. Its not only americans, its normal that you want your homeboy to win but sometimes it goes too far.

[standing 8]

I think that it all originated from Roy Jones's loss in the gold metal match back at the 1988 Summer Olympics.