Most wasted talents ever

[Luigi1985]

I mean, when fighters with potential to be a very good or even great fighter, failed because of serious injuries or for the boxing scene so famous/ typical drug-problems, etc.

[Executioner]

Tony Tubbs
Donald Curry

[Thread Stealer]

Tony Ayala and Ike Ibeabuchi were prospects/contenders who never reached the top.

Hector Camacho Sr. was an incredibly gifted boxer, a 2 time world champion, who could've been one of the ATGs, but wasted his potential.

[mcvey]

I mean, when fighters with potential to be a very good or even great fighter, failed because of serious injuries or for the boxing scene so famous/ typical drug-problems, etc.
Just a quick one wouldnt have been great but could have done a lot more,Kirkland Laing.,others that acheiverd a lot but could have done more Riddick Bowe and Greg Page,a wasted Champion was Benny Lynch.I suppose the pater boy really you should be Les Darcy.

[Executioner]

Naseem Hamed could have been even better. At his best the kid would have taken MAB, and I am convinced Pac's style would have been a wet dream for the little fucker.

Naz KO8 Pac :hat

[mcvey]

Naseem Hamed could have been even better. At his best the kid would have taken MAB, and I am convinced Pac's style would have been a wet dream for the little fucker.
Won a few bob on the MAB fight and was very pleased by the result,not counting the money.

[Luigi1985]

A very good example would be Lee Oma IMO...

[C. M. Clay II]

Mike Tyson:good

[Luigi1985]

Mike Tyson:good


:lol:


Today we´re a bit funny, aren´t we?

[ron u.k.]

although he achieved a lot,john conteh.

[C. M. Clay II]

:lol:


Today we´re a bit funny, aren´t we?

So you don't think Tyson was wasted talent?:huh

[ron u.k.]

So you don't think Tyson was wasted talent?:huhprobably the ultimate wasted talent

[MrMagic]

Tyson was a shooting star.
We're talking WASTED talent, Tyson unified and rocked the whole world, I wouldn't call that waste.

[Fab2333]

Well, than the guy in your avatar is a huge wasted talent.:rofl:rofl:rofl

[Fab2333]

Naseem Hamed could have been even better. At his best the kid would have taken MAB, and I am convinced Pac's style would have been a wet dream for the little fucker.:good:deal

[MrMagic]

Well, than the guy in your avatar is a huge wasted talent. 1+1 = 3

:patsch

[Luigi1985]

Tyson was the undisputed HW champion, he couldn´t archive more, because he wasn´t better. Against fighters like Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, etc. he would have lost everytime, whether in 86 during his prime or later in his career... (don´t come now with the excusses because his trainer and mentor died, fucked up lifestyle, etc.)

[C. M. Clay II]

Well, i think he´s right on this one.

Auch ein blindes Huhn findet mal ein Korn :lol:

I'm not blind, doofus.

[C. M. Clay II]

:rofl:rofl:rofl

I love your avatar!!:shock:

[Luigi1985]

I'm not blind, doofus.


Don´t worry, it´s only a funny proverb.

[C. M. Clay II]

Tyson was the undisputed HW champion, he couldn´t archive more, because he wasn´t better. Against fighters like Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, etc. he would have lost everytime, whether in 86 during his prime or later in his career... (don´t come now with the excusses because his trainer and mentor died, fucked up lifestyle, etc.)

He wouldn't have lost to the likes of Douglas.:good

[Luigi1985]

He wouldn't have lost to the likes of Douglas.:good


OK, in this fight he surely wasn´t in top shape, but like I wrote, he was the Undisputed HW champion, what else should he have archived? He reached his maximum IMO...

[jonesjrp4p1]

zab judah....still good fighter but he was suppose to be the next sweet pea

[C. M. Clay II]

Don´t worry, it´s only a funny proverb.

Es war nicht komisch mir.

[Luigi1985]

zab judah....still good fighter but he was suppose to be the next sweet pea


A bit hyperbolical for my taste, who said he would be the next Whitaker? But I agree, he could have archived/ archive more than he has until now...

[C. M. Clay II]

OK, in this fight he surely wasn´t in top shape, but like I wrote, he was the Undisputed HW champion, what else should he have archived? He reached his maximum IMO...

Well, you're a Tyson hater, so I guess I should expect you to say something like that. He was way past in after he came out of jail. Definetely not even close to what he was in his prime, surely IMO he would have beaten Lewis and maybe even Holyfield during his peak years.

[Luigi1985]

Es war nicht komisch mir.


Now you really sound like a candy-ass! :lol:

Shall we solace you? :gayfight

[Luigi1985]

Well, you're a Tyson hater, so I guess I should expect you to say something like that. He was way past in after he came out of jail. Definetely not even close to what he was in his prime, surely IMO he would have beaten Lewis and maybe even Holyfield during his peak years.


You´re really silly. I grow up watching Bowe and Tyson, they were my first fighters I watched live on TV, Mike was one of my favourite fighters (I was a kid, and he was the bad-boy, something children always like). But now, as a grown up man, I can make a opinion without being biased (in contrast to you for example), I only said that he couldn´t archive more (as if the HW- king wasn´t enough :nut )...

[ron u.k.]

Tyson was the undisputed HW champion, he couldn´t archive more, because he wasn´t better. Against fighters like Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield, etc. he would have lost everytime, whether in 86 during his prime or later in his career... (don´t come now with the excusses because his trainer and mentor died, fucked up lifestyle, etc.)pure speculation and opinion luigi.it is a fact that when he beat spinks he was only 23 year old and i defy anyone who was around at the time at that point to say they didn't think he would go on to be one of say the best 5 heavies ever.his tools did diminish after this and it is a fact that it was down to lifestyle and out of the ring problems,it's all well documented.who's to say what he would have become if he'd stayed on the straight and narrow,most fighters at 23 year old especially heavies improve.i generally think the man is these days generally underrated.

[C. M. Clay II]

Now you really sound like a candy-ass! :lol:

Shall we solace you? :gayfight

Sie sind auch nicht komisch.

[Luigi1985]

pure speculation and opinion luigi.it is a fact that when he beat spinks he was only 23 year old and i defy anyone who was around at the time at that point to say they didn't think he would go on to be one of say the best 5 heavies ever.his tools did diminish after this and it is a fact that it was down to lifestyle and out of the ring problems,it's all well documented.who's to say what he would have become if he'd stayed on the straight and narrow,most fighters at 23 year old especially heavies improve.i generally think the man is these days generally underrated.


Than you´re one of the few who thinks he´s underrated, for me he´s overrated, especially in head-to-head matchups...


btw, in a Classic Forum it´s all speculation...

[Luigi1985]

Sie sind auch nicht komisch.


Most important thing is, that you´re funny! :good

[C. M. Clay II]

Der Google Übersetzer ist richtig mies.

Gestopfte, Sie haben mich gefangen.:oops:

[ron u.k.]

Than you´re one of the few who thinks he´s underrated, for me he´s overrated, especially in head-to-head matchups...


btw, in a Classic Forum it´s all speculation...well of course as regards the huggers he's vastly overrated. i just think as time has past by he now gets a slightly raw deal as regarding his overall standing.

[Fab2333]

I love your avatar!!:shock::good
where do you guys get those animated smileys.

[Robbi]

Joe Calzaghe, Donald Curry, Tim Witherspoon, Paul Gonzales, Mark Breland, David Reid.

[Luigi1985]

well of course as regards the huggers he's vastly overrated. i just think as time has past by he now gets a slightly raw deal as regarding his overall standing.


Yeah, you know, for me, a wasted talent is someone who couldn´t show the world what he had. For Tyson, it wasn´t so. In process of time, we won the WBA, WBC and IBF- crown. And after the Spinks- fight he was THE CHAMP (even by the haters). If that isn´t much...

[C. M. Clay II]

:good
where do you guys get those animated smileys.

On the side of the reply bar when you post.

Dang, I still can't get over that avatar!:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

[C. M. Clay II]

Yeah, you know, for me, a wasted talent is someone who couldn´t show the world what he had. For Tyson, it wasn´t so. In process of time, we won the WBA, WBC and IBF- crown. And after the Spinks- fight he was THE CHAMP (even by the haters). If that isn´t much...

Ok, maybe he wasn't totally wasted talent, but he definetely didn't reach his full potential. Anyone denying that is a hater, plain and simple.:good

[Dempsey1238]

Pop quiz, Tyson was the youngest man to lose the title. I do find it funny people going on how Tyson was shot vs Douglas.

A bit past his peak vs Holyfiled. But Tyson was not shot. Lewis yes, Tyson was shot.

[Fab2333]

On the side of the reply bar when you post.

Dang, I still can't get over that avatar!:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
lol, a lot of people say that. I change it up from time to time, for all the homeys on esb. Prolly change it 2day again.

[Duodenum]

If Whitaker had managed to live a clean life (granted, extremely problematic for a modern boxing champion), he might still be undefeated today. Ditto Camacho. If Eddie Mustafa Muhammad had joined Overeaters Anonymous and Weight Watchers, he might still be going strong. (Eddie's style was nursing home chic anyways.)

Dwight Davison needed a Tony Robbins seminar, or some motivational inspiration from some source.

Max Baer is classic, although what happened to him was unavoidable after Frankie Campbell. Ditto Griffth after Paret.

I remain convinced that Galento would have dethroned Louis, if only he had sufficiently hydrated himself before their match with bathtub gin martinis. (Plus, Tony wouldn't have felt Joe's punches, and might have been able to knock Louis out with his breath alone.)

Craig Payne became the first United States amateur to defeat Teo Stevenson since Bobick at the '71 Pan Am Games, but as a professional, he looked like he was training to become a Yokozuna.

Duran. What might he have accomplished if he had the discipline of a Ray Robinson or Marciano, or the joy of training of a Griffith? (As is, he's my all-time number two, by I remain convinced he would have beaten Hagler and Hearns if he had always maintained peak condition. He would have also beaten SRL in New Orleans.)

[C. M. Clay II]

lol, a lot of people say that. I change it up from time to time, for all the homeys on esb. Prolly change it 2day again.

Is that Buffy the Body?

[Dempsey1238]

lol, a lot of people say that. I change it up from time to time, for all the homeys on esb. Prolly change it 2day again.

Give us her name so we can look her up lol.
Do Lyric next. I think she is the best imo.

[Luigi1985]

Ok, maybe he wasn't totally wasted talent, but he definetely didn't reach his full potential. Anyone denying that is a hater, plain and simple.:good


Exactly, when somebody doesn´t have the same opinion like you, he´s a hater...


Most great fighters didn´t reach 100 % of their potential (bad matchups early in their career, who trows a shadow of their legacy, they fought with an injury instead of relocate the fight, etc.)

[C. M. Clay II]

Pop quiz, Tyson was the youngest man to lose the title. I do find it funny people going on how Tyson was shot vs Douglas.

A bit past his peak vs Holyfiled. But Tyson was not shot. Lewis yes, Tyson was shot.

Tyson was more than just "a bit" past it in the Holyfield fight. He had a 4 year layoff, and fought less than seven rounds since.

[C. M. Clay II]

Exactly, when somebody doesn´t have the same opinion like you, he´s a hater...


Most great fighters didn´t reach 100 % of their potential (bad matchups early in their career, who trows a shadow of their legacy, they fought with an injury instead of relocate the fight, etc.)

So you're saying Tyson reached his full potential as a fighter?

[Fab2333]

Is that Buffy the Body?
nooooo, lol. What part of bk u live in by the way?

[Thread Stealer]

Michael Nunn should've been more than he was.

[Dempsey1238]

The only 1 to have a 100 percent run, was perhaps Ray Robinson or Harry Greb?? Was going to say Louis, but he had WWII.

[Dempsey1238]

He beat Seldon a reining heavyweight champ. And top contender McKinely. Thats pretty good. And he blow em out in 1 round each.

[Thread Stealer]

He beat Seldon a reining heavyweight champ. And top contender McKinely. Thats pretty good. And he blow em out in 1 round each.

:lol:

[Luigi1985]

So you're saying Tyson reached his full potential as a fighter?


What do you want more than being the Undisputed Heavyweight Chapion of the world? :lol:

He was lucky, that fighters like Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield started their career a bit to late, otherwise I wouldn´t need to explain you things like that. With his 5´10 and his character (if it doesn´t fare how he wanted it, he never showed the real heart of a champion IMO) he reached his full potential...

[C. M. Clay II]

nooooo, lol. What part of bk u live in by the way?

Flatbush:good

[C. M. Clay II]

He beat Seldon a reining heavyweight champ. And top contender McKinely. Thats pretty good. And he blow em out in 1 round each.

Seldon took a dive, everybody knows that. McNeely was a media hype machine, and everybody should know that.:good

[C. M. Clay II]

The only 1 to have a 100 percent run, was perhaps Ray Robinson or Harry Greb?? Was going to say Louis, but he had WWII.

But Louis peaked before going to war, so I would say he reached his full potential as a fighter.:good

[C. M. Clay II]

What do you want more than being the Undisputed Heavyweight Chapion of the world? :lol:

He was lucky, that fighters like Lewis, Bowe, Holyfield started their career a bit to late, otherwise I wouldn´t need to explain you things like that. With his 5´10 and his character (if it doesn´t fare how he wanted it, he never showed the real heart of a champion IMO) he reached his full potential...

He would have had more title defenses, plus his defense would have tightened up and his punches even shorter. He would have improved as a fighter.

P.S.- do you honestly think Bowe would have beaten him?:lol:

[Dempsey1238]

Maybe?? Maybe not, who knows what he could have done during the WWII years. I belive there was a lot more to go. Louis was about 26 or 27 when he enter the war. He might have jazz us even more by knocking out Tommy Farr in a rematch or something.

[Fab2333]

Flatbush:good
o word, I use to live there 2, be4 I moved to LI. used to live on bedford in between Linden and Nostrand. Im surprised you thought she was buffie lol. Nah im about 2 change my pic right now as a matter of fact hol on

[C. M. Clay II]

Maybe?? Maybe not, who knows what he could have done during the WWII years. I belive there was a lot more to go. Louis was about 26 or 27 when he enter the war. He might have jazz us even more by knocking out Tommy Farr in a rematch or something.

But do you think physically could he have improved during the war?

[Luigi1985]

He would have had more title defenses, plus his defense would have tightened up and his punches even shorter. He would have improved as a fighter.

P.S.- do you honestly think Bowe would have beaten him?:lol:


If he couldn´t KO a fighter until the midrounds, he often looked a bit helpless. Fighters like Smith weren´t a real threat for him, they only wanted to go the distance with him. But a prime Bowe had an excellent chin, could fight on the inside, had the power to hurt and KO Tyson, had a big weight and reach advantage, for me, both at their best, Bowe would be my favourite...

[C. M. Clay II]

o word, I use to live there 2, be4 I moved to LI. used to live on bedford in between Linden and Nostrand. Im surprised you thought she was buffie lol. Nah im about 2 change my pic right now as a matter of fact hol on

Are you banging her?

[C. M. Clay II]

If he couldn´t KO a fighter until the midrounds, he often looked a bit helpless. Fighters like Smith weren´t a real threat for him, they only wanted to go the distance with him. But a prime Bowe had an excellent chin, could fight on the inside, had the power to hurt and KO Tyson, had a big weight and reach advantage, for me, both at their best, he would be my favourite...

A past prime Tony Tubbs gave all Bowe could handle, and some even thought Tubbs beat him. A peak Tubbs gave Tyson less trouble and Tyson brutally ko'd him in under two rounds, so there you go.:good

[Luigi1985]

A past prime Tony Tubbs gave all Bowe could handle, and some even thought Tubbs beat him. A peak Tubbs gave Tyson less trouble and Tyson brutally ko'd him in under two rounds, so there you go.:good


:tired

Always that cross- comparisons, Morrison TKO´d Razor Ruddock in the 6th, Tyson went the full route with him and stopped him one time questionable. Is Tommy Morrison now better than Tyson? Styles make fights...

[C. M. Clay II]

:tired

Always that cross- comparisons, Morrison TKO´d Razor Ruddock in the 6th, Tyson went the full route with him and stopped him one time questionable. Is Tommy Morrison now better than Tyson? Styles make fights...

Thart's different. Ruddock was shot against Morrison, while he was peak against Tyson, so of course he would be easier for Morrison to beat. However, Tubbs was past it against Bowe, but Tubbs was peak against Tyson, so he should have been easier for Bowe to beat, but instead he was easier for Tyson to beat!:good

[Fab2333]

Are you banging her?
I wish lol. I met her like 2wice, my homeboy kno her though

[Dempsey1238]

I wish lol. I met her like 2wice, my homeboy kno her though

Does she have a name, same girl differnt pic.

[Luigi1985]

Thart's different. Ruddock was shot against Morrison, while he was peak against Tyson, so of course he would be easier for Morrison to beat. However, Tubbs was past it against Bowe, but Tubbs was peak against Tyson, so he should have been easier for Bowe to beat, but instead he was easier for Tyson to beat!:good


Ruddock wasn´t shot against Morrison, you really come with one stupid example after another...

[TBooze]

Roy Jones Jr was the biggest waste of talent in the modern era. He seemed that good that come 2007 we would be debating weather he was as good as Robinson. Instead he blew it to the point where he might not even be great.

Salvador Sanchez...

James Toney could of been really special but a lack of respect to training and steroid abuses cost him.

Mark Breland and Kelcie Banks probably spent to long as amateurs, ditto Tarver.

James Douglas showed once what may of been had he been properly dedicated

Riddick Bowe blew it with the world at his feet

[C. M. Clay II]

I wish lol. I met her like 2wice, my homeboy kno her though

What's her name?

[C. M. Clay II]

Ruddock wasn´t shot against Morrison, you really come with one stupid example after another...

RUDDOCK WAS SHOT, PERIOD! Tyson ruined him. After Tyson fought him he was never the same again. Why do you think After giving Tyson good fights he was blasted by Lewis in two? He was not the same fighter against lewis and Morrison. He was wasted. The beatings Tyson gave him damaged him.:good

[Luigi1985]

RUDDOCK WAS SHOT, PERIOD! Tyson ruined him. After Tyson fought him he was never the same again. Why do you think After giving Tyson good fights he was blasted by Lewis in two? He was not the same fighter against lewis and Morrison. He was wasted. The beatings Tyson gave him damaged him.:good


Ruddock was a hyped up fighter, who beat only bums until he faced an old, shot and fat Dokes, he brutally TKO´d him which was good because than the boxing media hyped him up to create an "exciting fight" between him and Tyson. After the Tyson- fights he had a fight against Page, who was also shot and lost against fighters like the journeyman Wills before he faced Razor. Than he struggled with Jackson, but he KO´d him in the 4th, and than he was chanceless against Lewis, and than he faced a journeyman and than he faced Morrison. Can you explain me why he should have been shot against Tommy? The "wars" against Tyson are totally hyperbolical, he clinched that much, he didn´t suffer that much shots or so...

[Robbi]

If Whitaker had managed to live a clean life (granted, extremely problematic for a modern boxing champion), he might still be undefeated today. Ditto Camacho. If Eddie Mustafa Muhammad had joined Overeaters Anonymous and Weight Watchers, he might still be going strong. (Eddie's style was nursing home chic anyways.)

Dwight Davison needed a Tony Robbins seminar, or some motivational inspiration from some source.

Max Baer is classic, although what happened to him was unavoidable after Frankie Campbell. Ditto Griffth after Paret.

I remain convinced that Galento would have dethroned Louis, if only he had sufficiently hydrated himself before their match with bathtub gin martinis. (Plus, Tony wouldn't have felt Joe's punches, and might have been able to knock Louis out with his breath alone.)

Craig Payne became the first United States amateur to defeat Teo Stevenson since Bobick at the '71 Pan Am Games, but as a professional, he looked like he was training to become a Yokozuna.

Duran. What might he have accomplished if he had the discipline of a Ray Robinson or Marciano, or the joy of training of a Griffith? (As is, he's my all-time number two, by I remain convinced he would have beaten Hagler and Hearns if he had always maintained peak condition. He would have also beaten SRL in New Orleans.)

Whitaker's problems with substance abuse only officially arose before his fight with Trinidad. Prior to the Trinidad fight, he was inactive for just under two years. In my personal opinion, the De La Hoya defeat and failure to secure a rematch, spiralled him into depression. He was years past his prime before he shared a ring with De La Hoya, around 5-6 years.

Not too sure Galento would have beaten Louis, even if he was in top shape.

Duran was very indisciplined, especially between fights. He would go away for days partying with friends, then would phone his manager, Carlos Eleta and say "Where are Brown and Arcel, I need them". During these moments Duran knew he had bad habits, but also he couldn't help himself. He liked to live the goodlife.

When Eleta secured the third fight with De Jesus, he falsely told Duran a non-title fight was signed as a tune-up. Weeks later Eleta told Duran the opponent injured himself and the fight was cancelled. He wanted to Duran to be in the best condition possible, because of the weight making difficulties Duran had began to face deep into his lightweight reign. Duran trained much longer than usual for third De Jesus fight in the proccess.

Not too sure Duran would have ever beaten Hearns, no matter what kind of physical condition he got himself into. No question he was lethargic and weak as he had to come down from 180lbs three weeks before the fight. But Duran had never fought an opponent who could bang like Hearns' prior to squaring off against him. Hearns' height and reach, combined with his tremendous jab and right hand power, too much. Hearns had a 6" height, and an 11" reach advantage over Duran.

[TBooze]

Ruddock was a hyped up fighter, who beat only bums until he faced an old, shot and fat Dokes, he brutally TKO´d him which was good because than the boxing media hyped him up to create an "exciting fight" between him and Tyson. After the Tyson- fights he had a fight against Page, who was also shot and lost against fighters like the journeyman Wills before he faced Razor. Than he struggled with Jackson, but he KO´d him in the 4th, and than he was chanceless against Lewis, and than he faced a journeyman and than he faced Morrison. Can you explain me why he should have been shot against Tommy? The "wars" against Tyson are totally hyperbolical, he clinched that much, he didn´t suffer that much shots or so...

Awful lot of hindsight in that...

Ruddock was a comfortable favourite to beat Lewis. The few who did pick Lewis figured he could avoid the smash for 12 rounds and win a decision.

Ruddock was a legitmate contender before Dokes indeed a Tyson/Ruddock fight had been pencilled in for November 89, after his gutsy win over Bomecrusher.

Dokes was still considered a legitmate contender only one year removed from the Holyfield war.

Hindsight can make fools of us all, but Ruddock was thought by many THE MAN who would still be standing after Lewis/Ruddock; Holyfield/Bowe and the subsequent match that was meant to happen between the winners.

[C. M. Clay II]

Ruddock was a hyped up fighter, who beat only bums until he faced an old, shot and fat Dokes, he brutally TKO´d him which was good because than the boxing media hyped him up to create an "exciting fight" between him and Tyson. After the Tyson- fights he had a fight against Page, who was also shot and lost against fighters like the journeyman Wills before he faced Razor. Than he struggled with Jackson, but he KO´d him in the 4th, and than he was chanceless against Lewis, and than he faced a journeyman and than he faced Morrison. Can you explain me why he should have been shot against Tommy? The "wars" against Tyson are totally hyperbolical, he clinched that much, he didn´t suffer that much shots or so...

Do you want me to start a poll just to satisfy you?

[C. M. Clay II]

C. M. Clay II is an ignorant. :good

You can't even write properly, so isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?

[Luigi1985]

Do you want me to start a poll just to satisfy you?

You would lose anyway, don´t waste our time...

[Luigi1985]

You can't even write properly, so isn't that like the pot calling the kettle black?


Discuss with him in German, than we can see who can´t write...

[Luigi1985]

Awful lot of hindsight in that...

Ruddock was a comfortable favourite to beat Lewis. The few who did pick Lewis figured he could avoid the smash for 12 rounds and win a decision.

Ruddock was a legitmate contender before Dokes indeed a Tyson/Ruddock fight had been pencilled in for November 89, after his gutsy win over Bomecrusher.

Dokes was still considered a legitmate contender only one year removed from the Holyfield war.

Hindsight can make fools of us all, but Ruddock was thought by many THE MAN who would still be standing after Lewis/Ruddock; Holyfield/Bowe and the subsequent match that was meant to happen between the winners.


I know that Lewis would smash Ruddock, and it happened. He was too predictable, he was a good contender, but nothing more...

[C. M. Clay II]

Awful lot of hindsight in that...

Ruddock was a comfortable favourite to beat Lewis. The few who did pick Lewis figured he could avoid the smash for 12 rounds and win a decision.

Ruddock was a legitmate contender before Dokes indeed a Tyson/Ruddock fight had been pencilled in for November 89, after his gutsy win over Bomecrusher.

Dokes was still considered a legitmate contender only one year removed from the Holyfield war.

Hindsight can make fools of us all, but Ruddock was thought by many THE MAN who would still be standing after Lewis/Ruddock; Holyfield/Bowe and the subsequent match that was meant to happen between the winners.

Thank you.:good

[C. M. Clay II]

I know that Lewis would smash Ruddock, and it happened. He was too predictable, he was a good contender, but nothing more...

He would have lasted longer if it was the Tyson Ruddock.

[C. M. Clay II]

Discuss with him in German, than we can see who can´t write...

Mind your own business. He's the one that started it so he deserved what I told him.

[TBooze]

I know that Lewis would smash Ruddock, and it happened. He was too predictable, he was a good contender, but nothing more...

You must of been one amazing seven year old then! ;)

I was there, no one and I mean no one was picking Lewis inside six.

[C. M. Clay II]

Well, i don´t wirte properly because English isn´t my mother tongue, so i may make some mistakes. But i don´t get what that has to do with you beeing ignorant? :good

Why? Because I said Ruddock was shot against Morrison? Then I guess 80% of boxing fans are ignorant then.:roll:

[Luigi1985]

He would have lasted longer if it was the Tyson Ruddock.


Bullshit, the difference against Lewis was, that he stood in front of a real SHW, who was not robotic and who had skills. Against Tyson, he used his weight and size advantages to lean on Tyson and to tire him, a thing, he couldn´t do against Lennox...

[C. M. Clay II]

You must of been amazing seven year old then! ;)

Yeah.:yep

Luigi's exposed again!

[C. M. Clay II]

Bullshit, the difference against Lewis was, that he stood in front of a real SHW, who was not robotic and who had skills. Against Tyson, he used his weight and size advantages to lean on Tyson and to tire him, a thing, he couldn´t do against Lennox...

I didn't say he would have won, I said he would have lasted longer, and he would have, since the Tyson fight took something out of him.

[C. M. Clay II]

You would lose anyway, don´t waste our time...

Well, if I would lose then what are you afraid of?

[Luigi1985]

You must of been one amazing seven year old then! ;)

I was there, no one and I mean no one was picking Lewis inside six.


First of all, I started watching boxing when I was a little child, because everyone in my family likes boxing, and secondly, I didn´t say that I expected it live or so, I meant when I think now about how someone favoured Ruddock over Lennox, than I don´t know...


after reading your post, it seems to be, that how older you´re, the better knowledge you have...

[Luigi1985]

Yeah.:yep

Luigi's exposed again!


Than we also can´t talk about your idol Clay...

[TBooze]

First of all, I started watching boxing when I was a little child, because everyone in my family likes boxing, and secondly, I didn´t say that I expected it live or so, I meant when I think now about how someone favoured Ruddock over Lennox, than I don´t know...


after reading your post, it seems to be, that how older you´re, the better knowledge you have...

Hence my post, hindsight is a wonderful thing, it can and very often does make fools of us all.;)

[C. M. Clay II]

First of all, I started watching boxing when I was a little child, because everyone in my family likes boxing, and secondly, I didn´t say that I expected it live or so, I meant when I think now about how someone favoured Ruddock over Lennox, than I don´t know...


after reading your post, it seems to be, that how older you´re, the better knowledge you have...

No, you said "I knew Lewis would smash Ruddock, and it happened", implying that you had the idea that Lewis would win, and then it happened after you had the idea. Don't try and change the story around.:yep

[C. M. Clay II]

Than we also can´t talk about your idol Clay...

What are you talking about?

[Luigi1985]

No, you said "I knew Lewis would smash Ruddock, and it happened", implying that you had the idea that Lewis would win, and then it happened after you had the idea. Don't try and change the story around.:yep


It´s normal when I was born in 1985, that I don´t need to say that I think that with the wisdom of hindsight, or not? Lewis was just another league than a fighter like Ruddock, OK, he isn´t an American, perhaps some posters like you are mad therefore, but it doesn´t change it. Ruddock at his best was just a contender, nothing more, nothing less. Lewis on the other side was a great champ, so it´s not that difficult to think who would win between these two...

[C. M. Clay II]

No because you always state your oppinions as facts and totally ignore when people prove you wrong. But since you will do that here also i do not expect an answer from you.

So you disagree that Ruddock was shot against Morrison? Why?

[C. M. Clay II]

Talking about exposed ;)

Hey, can't fault me for trying.:yep

[Luigi1985]

What are you talking about?


Because you espoused T-Booze, who sounded indirectly so that if we weren´t born at that time of a fighter we couldn´t talk that good about. What´s than about Cassius Clay?

[TBooze]

It´s normal when I was born in 1985, that I don´t need to say that I think that with the wisdom of hindsight, or not? Lewis was just another league than a fighter like Ruddock, OK, he isn´t an American, perhaps some posters like you are mad therefore, but it doesn´t change it. Ruddock at his best was just a contender, nothing more, nothing less. Lewis on the other side was a great champ, so it´s not that difficult to think who would win between these two...

You are using 15 years of hindsight, if you went back to the summer of 1992, you probably would of been laughed at with that view.

[C. M. Clay II]

It´s normal when I was born in 1985, that I don´t need to say that I think that with the wisdom of hindsight, or not? Lewis was just another league than a fighter like Ruddock, OK, he isn´t an American, perhaps some posters like you are mad therefore, but it doesn´t change it. Ruddock at his best was just a contender, nothing more, nothing less. Lewis on the other side was a great champ, so it´s not that difficult to think who would win between these two...

Well, then if you really meant that, then you should have worded it a little differently.

[C. M. Clay II]

Yeah, i disagree. He maybe wasn´t as good as against Tyson but not shot.

Well, I think Ruddock would have beaten Morrison in his prime, so I think that constitutes being either shot, or way past your prime or something to that effect.:good

[Luigi1985]

You are using 15 years of hindsight, if you went back to the summer of 1992, you probably would of been laughed at with that view.


I know that Ruddock was the betting-favourite, but an insider would have favoured Lennox. Who had Ruddock beaten except 2 old and shot ex-stars in Page and Dokes? Nobody! Lennox at least beat the underrated at 35-0-0 unbeaten Gary Mason and Tyrell Biggs, that´s better than what Razor did until that time...

[C. M. Clay II]

Because you espoused T-Booze, who sounded indirectly so that if we weren´t born at that time of a fighter we couldn´t talk that good about. What´s than about Cassius Clay?

That's two different things. The way you worded your post about the Ruddock-Lewis fight sounded like you claimed you predicted the outcome before it happened, that's all.

[Luigi1985]

Well, then if you really meant that, then you should have worded it a little differently.


Sorry for not speaking English perfectly! But when my nickname is Luigi1985, I originate that people know that in this year I didn´t lose my virginity for example, but I was born there...

[C. M. Clay II]

Sorry for not speaking English perfectly! But when my nickname is Luigi1985, I originate that people know that in this year I didn´t lose my virginity for example, but I was born there...

I wasn't talking about speaking English properly, calm down. I'm just saying that maybe you shouldn't have left the impression of a Monday Morning Quarterback, that's all.

[TBooze]

I know that Ruddock was the betting-favourite, but an insider would have favoured Lennox. Who had Ruddock beaten except 2 old and shot ex-stars in Page and Dokes? Nobody! Lennox at least beat the underrated at 35-0-0 unbeaten Gary Mason and Tyrell Biggs, that´s better than what Razor did until that time...

There is no way Mason was underrated, and Biggs was but a name fringe contender when he fought Lewis unlike Dokes who was a legitmate contender.

Insiders were not sold on Lewis. The British public had not warmed to him, and as all his learning fights had been on ITV, we had seen all his flaws and he seemed very poor for an Olympic champion.

Of course Lewis duly and thankfully proved us wrong and stuffed our criticisms of him down our throats, and that humble pie tasted good...

But in the summer of 1992, Lewis was considered fourth of four amongst Bowe, Holyfield and Ruddock. And the insiders were backing Ruddock to come out on top amongst the four.

[Luigi1985]

There is no way Mason was underrated, and Biggs was but a name fringe contender when he fought Lewis unlike Dokes who was a legitmate contender.

Insiders were not sold Lewis. The British public had not warmed to him, and as all his learning fights had been on ITV, we had seen all his flaws and he seemed very poor for an Olympic champion.

Of course Lewis duly and thankfully proved us wrong and stuffed our criticisms of him down our throats, and that humble pie tasted good...

But in the summer of 1992, Lewis was considered fourth of four amongst Bowe, Holyfield and Ruddock.


Of course was Mason underrated, even today some people still saying that he was just a big and pysical strong fighter, who just fought bums in UK, but he had potential and was a real threat for a eilte HW. He was a strong puncher, had a big size, and a good chin. Biggs was at least in shape when he fought Lewis, not like Dokes when he fought Ruddock...

[TBooze]

Of course was Mason underrated, even today some people still saying that he was just a big and pysical strong fighter, who just fought bums in UK, but he had potential and was a real threat for a eilte HW. He was a strong puncher, had a big size, and a good chin. Biggs was at least in shape when he fought Lewis, not like Dokes when he fought Ruddock...

Dokes was considered a contender, Biggs was not, you are using hindsight again....

Mason was very ordinary. He was a clubbing puncher who although looking good at British and European level, started to struggle when he met the decent American journeymen.

He seemed to be on the way to losing the Biggs fight, before for some reason Biggs just gave up... I went to see it and it was wierd.

Mason did show a lot of heart and a good chin when he fought Lewis. I went to that fight as well and I was the only one amongst my mates to pick Mason, they all saw the flaws in him.

I liked Gary Mason he was an honest pro, but he lacked the snap in his punches to take anyone out inside the top 25 in the world, and although his heart and chin were sound, his technique, conditioning and defence were limited and if he had met any other top 20 fighter he would of gone out on his shield, but he would of lost.

[Luigi1985]

Dokes was considered a contender, Biggs was not, you are using hindsight again....

Mason was very ordinary. He was a clubbing puncher who although looking good at British and European level, started to struggle when he met the decent American journeymen.

He seemed to be on the way to losing the Biggs fight, before for some reason Biggs just gave up... I went to see it and it was wierd.

Mason did show a lot of heart and a good chin when he fought Lewis. I went to that fight as well and I was the only one amongst my mates to pick Mason, they all saw the flaws in him.

I liked Gary Mason he was an honest pro, but he lacked the snap in his punches to take anyone out inside the top 25 in the world, and although is heart and chin was sound, his technique, conditioning and defence was limited and if he had met any other top 20 fighter he would of gone out on his shield, but he would of lost.


Who would you favour: The Dokes from the Ruddock- fight, or the Biggs from the Lewis- fight.

[TBooze]

Who would you favour: The Dokes from the Ruddock- fight, or the Biggs from the Lewis- fight.

At the time Dokes, with hindsight it would of been close but Dokes to win in a painfully close stinker.

Remember Dokes was still in the glow of the excellent Holyfield effort. Ironically the similar glow Ruddock had after the Tyson defeats.

Tyrell, although the next big;) thing in 1986, was damaged goods in 1991, comming off the Tyson fight; his battle with his demons; defeats to Damiani, Mason and the brave effort against Bowe.

[Luigi1985]

At the time Dokes, with hindsight it would of been close but Dokes to win in a painfully close stinker.


OK, from watching their fights at that time I would take Biggs, but OK, we have 2 different opinions here...

[frankwornank]

;) Tony Ayala Jr. He appeared to be the real goods and wound up spending about 16 years in jail. After that, he came back and still looked pretty good for a while.

I cant say "The most wasted talent ever", but we will never know his full potential.

[ozziebattler]

RUDDOCK WAS SHOT, PERIOD! Tyson ruined him. After Tyson fought him he was never the same again. Why do you think After giving Tyson good fights he was blasted by Lewis in two? He was not the same fighter against lewis and Morrison. He was wasted. The beatings Tyson gave him damaged him.:good

Ruddock didnt look to shot to me in Morrison fight..It took one of Morrison's massive lefthooks to change the outcome of that fight...

Dont get me wrong mate im a huge Tyson fan and feel what your saying bout mike not fullfilling his potential..

He will go down as the biggest dissapointment in sports history.

Have to throw Morrisons name down as a wasted talent aswell.

HIV positive at 26...You dont get that by clean living...I remember Bill clayton among others saying how Tommy's lifestyle made Tyson look like a buddist monk.

Spoke to a bloke who bounced at a few clubs tommy used to go to in the early 90's...Said he had to kick him out once as he was banging two broads in the male toilets.

I remember reading a interview with Morrison where he claimed to of banged over 2000 bitches...Talk about tommy gunn...

He crammed a shitload in before he was 26....

[Ironside]

Golota
Frazier's son(forgot first name)
Tyson

[Pantera]

Panchito.

[redrooster]

Tony Ayala and Ike Ibeabuchi were prospects/contenders who never reached the top.

Hector Camacho Sr. was an incredibly gifted boxer, a 2 time world champion, who could've been one of the ATGs, but wasted his potential.

How much farther could Hector have taken his career? We already saw the best of Camacho as he ruled the lower divisions in the 1980's

[redrooster]

Golota
Frazier's son(forgot first name)
Tyson

Marvis Frazier? I'm afraid he doesn't fall into the catagory of wasted talent. He just didn't belong with top competition. he was only 10-0 when his brave father put him in with holmes and had to retire in 1986 before he got hurt again.

[JohnThomas1]

Marvis Frazier? I'm afraid he doesn't fall into the catagory of wasted talent. He just didn't belong with top competition. he was only 10-0 when his brave father put him in with holmes and had to retire in 1986 before he got hurt again.

You sure he retired in 86? Don't forget Tyson, who raped the guy compared to Holmes. That uppercut came from hell.

[Holmes' Jab]

Riddick Bowe
Michael Dokes
Tony Tubbs
Buster Douglas
Tyrell Biggs

[Holmes' Jab]

You sure he retired in 86? Don't forget Tyson, who raped the guy compared to Holmes. That uppercut came from hell.

Correct. That was one helluva mashing, Mike just pounced straight from the opening bell. Caution to the wind, he threw a few jabs and then just opened up. 20-odd seconds later after a barrage of hooks uppercuts and bodyshots it was all over.

Devestating stuff. :good

[Titan1]

Mitchell Green
Bernard Taylor
Tony Tucker

[BoppaZoo]

Mine isnt so much a wasted talent to say but a man that could have ruled the heavyweight division if he had have taken himself seriously after losing to Ali in Zaire.

George Foreman.
I mean if he had of stayed motivated and fought on he would have had an outstanding record and probably be one of the top 3 all time heavyweights.

Instead of retiring and fighting on after 1977 and retiring at the age of 28 he could have had fights against Larry Holmes,Mike Tyson,Earnie Shavers,Ken Norton etc and probably i think he would have had one of the titles. He may have even beat Ali in a rematch.

To me Foreman is still a great in my books but to imagine what his records could have looked like its a shame he did retire then. he could have fought way up until 1986 he would have been only 36.

[janitor]

Max Baer is classic, although what happened to him was unavoidable after Frankie Campbell. Ditto Griffth after Paret.


That boy might just have had the best power combined with the best chin of any heavyweight champion.

Based on his personality he should never have got to a world level but his raw talent was such that he just breezed through it.

Max Schmeling (best heavy in the world right now). "I actualy have to take that one seriously".

Primo Carnera (world heavyweight champion who has beaten most of the best out there) "I will just clown around and still knock him down 11 times".