Tim Witherspoon

[Muchmoore]

Where do you rank him? Just got done watching Spoon's first fight against a contender against Snipes, he showed limitations and the difference between this Spoon and the one that fought Holmes in his next fight is strange.
Spoon was tired against Snipes later on, but came out and won the 10th round to seal the deal, he showed in this fight that Holmes was going to have his hands full with him because of the way he avoided Snipes jab. Spoon was always good at negating jabbers.

He had wins over Snipes, Tubbs, Bruno, Page, Bonecrusher, and Tillis. That set of wins is very impressive, and what he did when he got older against the new generation is under rated. In 1996 he almost shut out 27-1 Alfred Cole in a wide decision win and followed that up with a KO over 24-1 Jorge Luis Gonzalez. He closed out the year with giving Ray Mercer all he wanted and lost by a debatable decision, this fight is impressive.

In 2001 at nearly 44 years old he fought a prime Monte Barrett to a split decision! Barrett isn't great but he was a top ten fighter for several years, that fight helps his legacy. So the question is, where do you rank him and what's your thoughts of him? I personally think he's the number 3 HW of the 80's a top 30-35 HW.

[mr. magoo]

I think that with his comp list, claim to being a two time titlist, along with his competitiveness in both defeat and old age, he is probably a top 30-35 heavyweight. Ring Magazine rates him quite a bit lower on the scale, but I don't always agree with everything ring says either. He is for the most part, a forgotten quantity and a man who's legacy probably could have been better under different circumstances...........Circumstances that he himself did not help..

[Mr Butt]

a witherspoon with his head together and properly trained was the fighter i wanted to see fight tyson around 87-90

[Mendoza]

a witherspoon with his head together and properly trained was the fighter i wanted to see fight tyson around 87-90

Team Tyson did not want this fight. Witherpsoon was likely the 3rd best heavyweight of the 1980's, behind Holmes and Tyson.

[Muchmoore]

Team Tyson did not want this fight. Witherpsoon was likely the 3rd best heavyweight of the 1980's, behind Holmes and Tyson.

It was more Don King than Team Tyson. After Spoon got dusted by Bonecrusher, he couldn't get a fight against a contender and there was no point in which Spoon ever had a case that he should of been fighting for the title. King basically refused to match contenders in with him.

I do believe though that a focused Witherspoon gives Tyson his most interesting fight pre Douglas. Terrible Tim was real, real good.

[MRBILL]

In 1987, even Spoon focused and in-shape, I'd guess he still gets cut to ribbons by Tyson............... Just like Stinklon Thomas was........ Christ, Thomas had only ONE decision loss (Berbick '86) when he was wasted by Tyson in 1987.......... Tyson was on fire in '87 and '88........ Spoon gets his goose cooked, too..............

MR.BILL

Note:

But, I gotta say, Thomas is one dude who aged 20 years between 1985 to 1987........... He went downhill fast and hard............. Spoon's stumble wasn't as quick............

[Bigcat]

Tim was a well balanced talent when he was on form. but management issues caused troublesome through his finer years.. Tyson v Witherspoon around 1987 would have been a tough ask of Mike, Tim was a very hard man to figure out and was a great alrounder.

[ThinBlack]

Tim would take Tyson to the distance, at his best, may still lose, but give Tyson some tough moments.

[SuzieQ49]

Team Tyson did not want this fight. Witherpsoon was likely the 3rd best heavyweight of the 1980's, behind Holmes and Tyson.

:lol::lol: :patsch:patsch What a load of Hoarse shit. Tyson ducked NO ONE. Fighters ducked Tyson. Spoon got absolutley hammered away in one round by spoon...and though spoon fans like to say King fixed it...Film tells us a different story. It shows Bonecrusher simply catchinmgg spoon cold. Spoon had developed man boobs and looked terribly out of shape by 1987...so Team Tyson certainly would not be afraid. Especially considering tyson DESTROYED men who either beat/competitive with spoon.

Spoon was no better than Tubbs and Thomas. In fact he would have ended up just like them against Tyson. I doubt Spoon would have lasted more than 4 rounds...Tyson in 1987-88 was on a completley different level.


Spoon to me was a very good fighter top 30-35 all time. HOWEVER, on this forum he tends to get a little overrated by Larry Holmes fans. He never showed to me he was a step above fighters like Pinklon Thomas and Tony Tubbs.

[SuzieQ49]

No way Tim goes the distance with tyson. Tyson fought durable skilled alpha champs just like Spoon who had NEVER been down before...and Tyson easily wasted them. Spoon would be no different. Spoon showed in the bonecrusher fight he was highly susceptible to a early aggresive attack...and no one was better at that than tyson. Tysons combination of Speed and Power Technique will simply overwhelm Spoon in the first couple rounds. As for Spoons durability, there is no such thing as a good chin against tyson. Spoon fought too aggresivley to go the distance vs tyson. Unless spoon pulls a grab a thon, i expect his counterpunchig aggresive style to be overwhelmed early by Mike.

[Mendoza]

No way Tim goes the distance with tyson. Tyson fought durable skilled alpha champs just like Spoon who had NEVER been down before...and Tyson easily wasted them. Spoon would be no different. Spoon showed in the bonecrusher fight he was highly susceptible to a early aggresive attack...and no one was better at that than tyson. Tysons combination of Speed and Power Technique will simply overwhelm Spoon in the first couple rounds. As for Spoons durability, there is no such thing as a good chin against tyson. Spoon fought too aggresivley to go the distance vs tyson. Unless spoon pulls a grab a thon, i expect his counterpunchig aggresive style to be overwhelmed early by Mike.

No way? Didn't a few bug guys go the distance with the prime Tyson? I think so. Witherpsoon would have been Tyson's best opponent in the 1980's. Since Tyson began to lose form and focus as early as the 1st Bruno fight ( Bruno badly rocked Tyson ), and was later on upset by Douglas in 1990, Witherpsoon has a chance to pull off the upset as well.

In fact, powerful out fighters with skills were Tyson's worst match ups.

Timmy was skilled, he had a great chin, and pretty good power. Good on defense, and counter punching too. If we look history, it seems Tyson liked to give title shots to guys Witherpsoon had already beaten.....Smith, Bruno, and Tubbs.

[Mendoza]

SuzieQ49 says : Tyson ducked NO ONE.

Tyson did not fight Bowe. The fight was out there. It would have been HUGE. He did not fight Mercer, Sanders, Morrer, Foreman, Ike, or Tua either. The Foreman fight was out there as well. It would have been HUGE.

In truth, Tyson was a carefully managed fighter from 1994-2000. Why give Seldon a title shot when the above fighters are still out there? Also, he targeted a past his best Bruno to win back a world title belt.

You might not realize it, but Tyson pulled out of more fights due to injury or scheduling conflict than any heavyweight I can think of in the 1990's. Its true.

[Rourke]

Two weeks ago I was looking for his fights on YouTube but I found nothing good... If anyone has any, I'd love to see some (uploaded on YouTube).

[MRBILL]

Tyson did not fight Bowe? Bowe was a friggin' nobody during Tyson's first reign of terror.......... That applies to Lewis as well............ Both Bowe and Lewis were still amateurs or rookies between 1986 to 1990.................. Now I am sure we have too many kids on this forum of ESB....... ARGH!!

SR.BILLARDO

[SuzieQ49]

Tyson did not fight Bowe. The fight was out there. It would have been HUGE. He did not fight Mercer, Sanders, Morrer, Foreman, Ike, or Tua either. The Foreman fight was out there as well. It would have been HUGE.

In truth, Tyson was a carefully managed fighter from 1994-2000. Why give Seldon a title shot when the above fighters are still out there? Also, he targeted a past his best Bruno to win back a world title belt.

You might not realize it, but Tyson pulled out of more fights due to injury or scheduling conflict than any heavyweight I can think of in the 1990's. Its true.

Maybe I should have been more specific. Tyson of the 1980s DUCKED NO ONE. He certainly did duck people in the 1990s.

[SuzieQ49]

Since Tyson began to lose form and focus as early as the 1st Bruno fight ( Bruno badly rocked Tyson ), and was later on upset by Douglas in 1990, Witherpsoon has a chance to pull off the upset as well.


Let us compare common opponents


Witherspoon W 15 Majority Tubbs- Very close decision. Dreadful fight.


Tyson TKO 2 Tubbs- Dominating one punch knockout


Witherspoon TKO 11 Bruno- Very close fight, some had Bruno ahead.

Tyson TKO 5 Bruno- Tyson handled Bruno much easier


Thomas W 12 Witherspoon- Clear Decision in Thomas best performance

Tyson TKO 6 Thomas- Dominating knockout. First time Thomas ever stopped.



Holmes W 12 Witherspoon- Great fight vs a younger holmes


Tyson TKO 4 Holmes- Holmes never stopped before or after


Bonecrusher TKO 1 Witherspoon- Caught Cold

Tyson W 12 Bonecrusher- Did Tyson lose a round?




Witherspoons record- 2-3

Tysons record- 5-0

[Muchmoore]

In truth, Tyson was a carefully managed fighter from 1994-2000. Why give Seldon a title shot when the above fighters are still out there? Also, he targeted a past his best Bruno to win back a world title belt.

You might not realize it, but Tyson pulled out of more fights due to injury or scheduling conflict than any heavyweight I can think of in the 1990's. Its true.

No one is denying that, Tyson wasn't a real fighter post prison. We're talking about the 80's Tyson that was proud to hold the title that his idols and heroes held before him. That Tyson avoided no one.

I don't want this thread to turn into a thread about Tyson, but I will say that I find it unlikely Spoon lasts the distance with Tyson. Not that he is an inferior opponent to those that did (Tucker, Smith, Green, Tillis) but because Witherspoon would try to win and not just hang on and be happy to lose a decision.

PS, Bonecrusher Smith was the reigning WBA Champion when Tyson fought him after he took out Witherspoon himself. Tyson didn't "choose" to give him a title shot.

[SuzieQ49]

If we look history, it seems Tyson liked to give title shots to guys Witherpsoon had already beaten.....Smith, Bruno, and Tubbs.

If we look at history...Tyson dominated these men that gave witherspoon huge fits, or beat men that spoon LOST too Holmes Bonecrusher Thomas

[Muchmoore]

Tim was a well balanced talent when he was on form. but management issues caused troublesome through his finer years.. Tyson v Witherspoon around 1987 would have been a tough ask of Mike, Tim was a very hard man to figure out and was a great alrounder.

Great allrounder is a good way to describe Spoon. His defense and punching technique is excellent, the only fault I have with him is that he didn't have a high enough workrate sometimes.

[he grant]

Witherspoon is a guy that if he had half of Marciano's determination would have been an all time great ...

[Chris Warren]

Tyson ducked nobody? Really because I could of sworn he ducked a old, fat, big floppy boobed 40 plus year old Foreman and paid Lewis 4 million dollars so he could fight a washed up Holyfield instead.

[SuzieQ49]

Tyson ducked nobody? Really because I could of sworn he ducked a old, fat, big floppy boobed 40 plus year old Foreman


You mean the same foreman who got his face lit up by Alex Stewart? The man tyson demolished in 1 easy round.

[Muchmoore]

Ignore him.

Anyway, I'm going to pop in Barrett-Witherspoon tonight, I'll post my scorecard and maybe a little round by round if anyone's interested :good

[he grant]

Tyson never ducked Foreman. He would have fought Foreman in a minute. Pre-Prison everyone feared for Foreman's life if such a bout were made. Post prison it simply did not work out. Foreman really wanted it as well. He wanted the huge money but he was very lucky such a fight never came off. A huge part of Foreman's new legacy is that he never went down or was embarrassed. That's why he never fought a Bowe or a Lewis, he knew. He would have fought Tyson but would have gotten crushed. Things worked out well as he made a zillon anyway.

[Boilermaker]

Tyson never ducked Foreman. He would have fought Foreman in a minute. Pre-Prison everyone feared for Foreman's life if such a bout were made. Post prison it simply did not work out. Foreman really wanted it as well. He wanted the huge money but he was very lucky such a fight never came off. A huge part of Foreman's new legacy is that he never went down or was embarrassed. That's why he never fought a Bowe or a Lewis, he knew. He would have fought Tyson but would have gotten crushed. Things worked out well as he made a zillon anyway.

I dont know about this Legacy wise. Just imagine if Foreman had been the fighter scoring the upset in Tokyo, instead of James Buster Douglas! Now that would have enhanced his reputation and legacy!

[Muchmoore]

Just got done watching a 43 year old Witherspoon fight Monte Barrett in 2001, interesting fight and here's my scorecard. I love it when an old veteran who everyone thinks is washed up goes in with a supposed young stud and gives him all he can handle.

Round 1-10-10. Dirty fight right off the bat, both guys are rabbit punching and could go either way.

Round 2-10-9 Spoon. Barrett isn't landing much and is getting hit with some bodyshots. He is trying to sucker Tim in and catch him with a wide right but Witherspoon isn't falling for it.

Round 3-10-9 Barrett. Barrett's busier in this round and lands some shots. You can tell Witherspoon can see the openings and countering opportunities but his body isn't moving like his mind is telling it to....

Round 4-10-9 Spoon. Another close one but Tim is really showing good ring generalship and is crowding Barrett nicely, especially after his jab lands to make sure Barrett can't counter and make use of his superior reflexes.

Round 5-10-9 Barrett. Could go either way but Barrett was the busier man so I gave it to him. Barrett is trying to land some flashy shots but looks foolish when the old man blocks them.

Round 6-10-9 Barrett. Easily Barrett's best round so far. Tim allowed himself to be cornered and basically took a round off to catch his breath.

Round 7-10-9 Witherspoon. Tim comes out looking sharp and lands some good jabs and continues making the fight in his territory.

Round 8-10-9 Witherspoon. Barrett continues to allow himself to fight on the inside and in the clinches with Spoon and he's losing because of it. Tim lands right hands every time they tie up.

Round 9-10-8 Barrett. Most important round of this fight, Barrett comes out looking better than he has and is outworking a very tired Witherspoon. Tim misses a wide shot and his upperbody falls between the ropes and out of the ring(looks like Jimmy Young ;)) and as he waits for the ref to seperate them Barrett starts throwing full power shots at a defenseless Spoon. The ref finally breaks them up and a few moments later when he's breaking them up again a pissed off Witherspoon nails Monte with a shot. The ref then decides to take a point off Spoon which is pivotal here.

Round 10-10-9 Barrett. Barrett continues where he left off and outworks the more tired Spoon. Spoon is fighting back hard and misses some homerun shots late in the fight though.

Overall scorecard-96-94 Monte. Tough fight to score though, 3-4 rounds could of gone either way and I could of seen Terrible Tim get the decision here and it shows what a talent Tim Witherspoon was. Spoon really put in a really good performance considering his age and amount of miles under him, Monte is at his best here in 01 and barely got the W. This fight's worth a look imo :good

[Chris Warren]

MuchMoore let me ignore you, you know how people ignore you in real life

SusieQ you mean the same Tyson who was knocked out by a washed up Holyfield and a old Foreman went the distance with a younger Holyfield

[leverage]

"Terrible Tim" witherspoon was a very good fighter and had the potential to be an all-time great. He could box, punch and had a tight defense. If he wasn't screwed over by don king there's no telling how far he could have gone.

[Mendoza]

MuchMoore let me ignore you, you know how people ignore you in real life

SusieQ you mean the same Tyson who was knocked out by a washed up Holyfield and a old Foreman went the distance with a younger Holyfield

Yep. Same guy.

[Mendoza]

Maybe I should have been more specific. Tyson of the 1980s DUCKED NO ONE. He certainly did duck people in the 1990s.

Don King had Witherpsoon's contract, and black balled Witherpsoon from fighting Tyson. Hence, Tyson did not have to face Witherpsoon. Clearly King did not want to risk his cash cow vs someone who had a chance to upset him.

Although there is no way to prove it, I think there is a chance that Witherpsoon vs Smith II was a fixed fight. A pre-arranged deal between King, Witherpsoon, and gamblers. Witherpsoon's home was robbed the same night.

[he grant]

SQ: How good do you feel Witherspoon might have been if ... ?

[Quick Cash]

I fondly picture Witherspoon as a Ken Norton with a reverse gear. Something of an oversimplification, but this is what I refer to when asked for a quick measure of his skills. Still, hell of a reverse gear to outbox even an aging Holmes for some spells.

I have him inside my top 30.