If Froch wins the Super Six series... does his legacy surpass Calzaghes?

[brown bomber]

Domestically he's already beaten better fighters then Calzaghe managed. Now moving onto world class he's beaten the WBC light heavyweight champion Jean Pascal in the British FOTY and former World Middleweight champion Jermain Taylor in a contender for international FOTY. Next he takes on highly touted former Olympic bronze medallist Andre Dirrell a fighter who is probably superior to Jeff Lacy when Calzaghe fought him in his 40th odd fight and 16th defence.

At the same stage in his career, Calzaghe had captured the vacant WBO title against a weight drained Eubank who took the bout at short notice and was a long way past his best, would never win another fight and hadn't scored a world class victory in four years.

In his first defence he took on Branko Sobot who unsuprisingly wasn't the former undisputed middleweight champion. The fight took place in Cardiff not in his opponents country. Sobot like Lacy must have suffered a brutal beating at the hands of Calzaghe as he would win just 5 of his remaining 16 contests.

It would take Calzaghe a further 21 fights before Calzaghe developed the confidence to fight the man whom Jermain Taylor beat. In his next defence he fought Juan Carlos Giminez. Giminez unfortunately didn't boast an unbeaten record or an olympic medal but to his credit he fought Eubank, Benn, Duran, Mauro Galvano and Juan Roldan unfortunately losing virtually every round to each one of them. He earned his shot at Calzaghe by beating Robson dos santos 1-1, Paul Jones 3-4 and classy veteran Miguel Lopez 1-12-3.

If Froch beats Kessler, Abraham, Dirrell and/ or olympic Gold medalist Andre Dirrell are people going to accept Froch as an ATG or must he make a further 15 defences against the giminez's of this world?

Go on Froch-lad!!! :good:good:good

[Beeston Brawler]

:lol:

Cue Scurla with his Artur Grigorian comparison :deal

[Mr. Tom Jones]

i would like froch to win it but i think he is arguably the least skilled out of the boxers. he could get out-boxed by any of the others.

[brown bomber]

Froch has to win it...... If I get one thing off Santa this and next year I want Froch to end the Calzaghe ATG debate. If he wins it will be the perfect way to demonstrate how blind some people are.

[Beeston Brawler]

Froch has to win it...... If I get one thing off Santa this and next year I want Froch to end the Calzaghe ATG debate. If he wins it will be the perfect way to demonstrate how blind some people are.

Just stop reading the boxing features in the News of the World :yep

Andy Dunn is an excellent writer but is seriously misguided when it comes to boxing.

Who are your top 5 Jeff, btw?

[dan-b]

There have been far too many Calzaghe threads on here recently.

[brown bomber]

Oh and by the way Alan Page who Froch stopped in his tenth fight beat Kessler in the amateurs. Kessler is a hype job conveniently placed on a pedestal by Calzaghe loyalists :-)

[Grant1]

There have been far too many Calzaghe threads on here recently.

Jeff's on a mission recently.

[brown bomber]

There have been far too many Calzaghe threads on here recently.One a week until the exposure takes place and then they will bumped for the forseeable future. :good

[brown bomber]

Jeff's on a mission recently.:lol: Its just a bit of a laff really... no one has to read them. But you Calzaghe fans better pray Kessler wins this

[dan-b]

One a week until the exposure takes place and then they will bumped for the forseeable future. :good

I feel the same about Calzaghe as you do but I'd rather just forget about him than waste time trying to convince nuthuggers who jumped on the bandwagon yesterday.

[dan-b]

:lol: Its just a bit of a laff really... no one has to read them. But you Calzaghe fans better pray Kessler wins this

Yeah, that always makes me laugh. Like Joe recieves some vicarious credit because a fighter may have improved after he's fought him. Also, the way his fans took some kind of "victory" out of Hopkins' schooling of Pavlik.

[Gaz S]

I feel the same about Calzaghe as you do but I'd rather just forget about him than waste time trying to convince nuthuggers who jumped on the bandwagon yesterday.


Try living in South Wales. Calzaghe's a god here. This, from people who have never even heard of Jimmy Wilde or Howard Winstone, fighters from their own door step.

[brown bomber]

Just stop reading the boxing features in the News of the World :yep

Andy Dunn is an excellent writer but is seriously misguided when it comes to boxing.

Who are your top 5 Jeff, btw?Its very hard to seperate the top guys... I like......

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Roberto Duran
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Muhammed Ali/ Joe Louis
5. Willie Pepp

But I really can't seperate any of them. Pepp was just amazing, Louis was my all time fave thats why I called my son Joe Louis.

Whats yours mate?

[Grant1]

:lol: Its just a bit of a laff really... no one has to read them. But you Calzaghe fans better pray Kessler wins this

If Froch wins it I'm convinced Joe will come out and fight him. He'll be too arrogant to be able to accept all of the praise Froch gets.

If you manage to brainwash everybody with you Flint-like threads I'm even more convinced he will :lol:

[brown bomber]

Also, the way his fans took some kind of "victory" out of Hopkins' schooling of Pavlik. without realising the fact that Hopkins rebounded from the Calzaghe fight shutting out the Middleweight champion of the world. Calzaghe rebounded climbing off the deck to beat a grandad who should be retired. Then retired himself. :lol:

[brown bomber]

If Froch wins it I'm convinced Joe will come out and fight him. He'll be too arrogant to be able to accept all of the praise Froch gets.

If you manage to brainwash everybody with you Flint-like threads I'm even more convinced he will :lol: I'm working on it pal. I like the way you just accept my view is different to yours without getting all emotional and personal about it. Makes me respect you as a poster more. :good

[dan-b]

without realising the fact that Hopkins rebounded from the Calzaghe fight shutting out the Middleweight champion of the world. Calzaghe rebounded climbing off the deck to beat a grandad who should be retired. Then retired himself. :lol:

And wouldn't give Hopkins a rematch even though he would have come to England.

[robpalmer135]

100% yes.

[Grant1]

I'm working on it pal. I like the way you just accept my view is different to yours without getting all emotional and personal about it. Makes me respect you as a poster more. :good

Cheers mate, you're a top poster and I learn a lot from your posts :good

(well, the non-Calzaghe one's anyway :lol:)

[brown bomber]

And wouldn't give Hopkins a rematch even though he would have come to England.This thread is boring without some delusional fans or at least TFFP tearing threads out of me :lol:

[Grant1]

And wouldn't give Hopkins a rematch even though he would have come to England.

Stay at home Joe only fights in Wales :good

[brown bomber]

Cheers mate, you're a top poster and I learn a lot from your posts :good

(well, the non-Calzaghe one's anyway :lol:)Likeise... apart from the Calzaghe ones.

[Beeston Brawler]

I meant your British top 5 :lol:

[dan-b]

Stay at home Joe only fights in Wales :good

:lol:Or Wales then. Everyone was really negative about a rematch but I think they could have made an event out of it. The Welsh would have turned out in their droves to boo Hopkins. Hopkins would have played the bad guy more than ever and if Calzaghe's fans were so confident Joe had the beating of Hops then it was nice easy payday for Joe eh?

[brown bomber]

I meant your British top 5 :lol:

1. Lennox Lewis
2. Naseem Hamed


Everyone else. Probably with Calzaghe near the top. :lol:

[Gaz S]

:lol:Or Wales then. Everyone was really negative about a rematch but I think they could have made an event out of it. The Welsh would have turned out in their droves to boo Hopkins. Hopkins would have played the bad guy more than ever and if Calzaghe's fans were so confident Joe had the beating of Hops then it was nice easy payday for Joe eh?

I think Team Calzaghe realized they were fortunate enough the first time around, didn't want to push Lady Luck too much...

And I know many disagree (as is their right to), but I still maintain Hopkins took Joe a tiny bit lightly first time around (even though he still won in may peoples' opinions). I believe Team Calzaghe sense this too, and didn't want to risk a more motivated, vengeful B-Hop coming for them second time around.

[Grant1]

:lol:Or Wales then. Everyone was really negative about a rematch but I think they could have made an event out of it. The Welsh would have turned out in their droves to boo Hopkins. Hopkins would have played the bad guy more than ever and if Calzaghe's fans were so confident Joe had the beating of Hops then it was nice easy payday for Joe eh?

Should have happened, you're right.

However, I think Joe really hated Hopkins with a passion and loved the fact that he beat him and there was fuck all Hopkins could do about it.

[safc1990]

I don't think Froch will win it but if he does then I think yes it will.

[Grant1]

I think Team Calzaghe realized they were fortunate enough the first time around, didn't want to push Lady Luck too much...

And I know many disagree (as is their right to), but I still maintain Hopkins took Joe a tiny bit lightly first time around (even though he still won in may peoples' opinions). I believe Team Calzaghe sense this too, and didn't want to risk a more motivated, vengeful B-Hop coming for them second time around.

I think that the scoring of Hopkins - Joe should have a thread all to itself.

I had it to Joe by around 3 points (but then I would) and in the week after the fight I think around 80% of ESB posters picked Joe in a poll.

However as time passes more people say they scored it the other way and I think it is a convenient stick to beat Joe with.

[Gaz S]

I think that the scoring of Hopkins - Joe should have a thread all to itself.

I had it to Joe by around 3 points (but then I would) and in the week after the fight I think around 80% of ESB posters picked Joe in a poll.

However as time passes more people say they scored it the other way and I think it is a convenient stick to beat Joe with.

I scored to Hopkins at the time, and watched it again a couple of days later and scored it to Hopkins again. I just personally prefer quality, cleaner punches rather than just sheer workrate or volume. Workrate does nothing for me if they're not all landing or legally scoring blows.

It's nothing against Calzaghe personally. Even if he did officially lose to Hopkins, it certainly wouldn't be a stick to beat Joe with, as I wouldn't consider it a disgrace at all. Hopkins is my favourite fighter and I rate him very, very highly so picking on Joe for losing to him would have no meaning. It just meant he lost to an exceptional fighter of our time who I consider an ATG. No shame in that.

[Grant1]

No shame at all.

Hopkins is my favourite active fighter by the way, I'd love to see how him Dawson pans out.

[dan-b]

^ That would be a great fight also but it seems HBO are more keen on a Hopkins Adamek fight.

[Gaz S]

Last I heard, Hopkins wasn't boxing again. But as with everything in this sport, things can change by the minute.

[Grant1]

I've heard both and both should be interesting fights.

It's not beyond the realms to think we could have a RJJ-Hopkins unification fight at 200.

That'd be a good way for both to bow out.

Trouble is I can't see Hopkins wanting to knock it on the head if Dawson is still dominant at 175.

[dan-b]

Hopkins will fight again but I am a little disappointed he hasn't taken a fight yet, just to keep him ticking over, like he said he would. He was awesome last time out (I was there) and I'm sure the long lay off before the Calzaghe fight didn't help. I know he had his heart set on a JC rematch early this year but he should have taken an interim bout once JC announced his retirement in my opinion. Who am I question the man though? Lol.

[Dan684]

Froch wins this. he's lightyears ahead of joe already, let alone what he goes onto after it,

No way in a million years Calzaghe would have taken part in this tourny anyway so froch deserves more respect for that alone

[China_hand_Joe]

If this Tourney had happened for Calzaghe, it would have involved Kessler, Lacy and Veit as equivalant fighters.

Calzaghe has beaten better fighters (bar Kessler of course) than Froch will even face here, just out of a tourney format.

Winning this tornament alone would not make him greater than Calzaghe, unless he won all fights by 1st round KO

[Dan684]

ha ha ha ha Veit

[toffeejack]

Jeff, you are obsessed with Joe Calzaghe this thread has proved it without doubt.

Please someone enlighten me here. Who has Froch beat worth mentioning? Taylor is his best win and he got totally outboxed for most of the fight and only won because of Taylor's notorious stamina issues.

His next best win is over an average title holder in Pascal who he also was in trouble against.

[TheSweetScience]

Domestically he's already beaten better fighters then Calzaghe managed. Now moving onto world class he's beaten the WBC light heavyweight champion Jean Pascal in the British FOTY and former World Middleweight champion Jermain Taylor in a contender for international FOTY. Next he takes on highly touted former Olympic bronze medallist Andre Dirrell a fighter who is probably superior to Jeff Lacy when Calzaghe fought him in his 40th odd fight and 16th defence.

At the same stage in his career, Calzaghe had captured the vacant WBO title against a weight drained Eubank who took the bout at short notice and was a long way past his best, would never win another fight and hadn't scored a world class victory in four years.

In his first defence he took on Branko Sobot who unsuprisingly wasn't the former undisputed middleweight champion. The fight took place in Cardiff not in his opponents country. Sobot like Lacy must have suffered a brutal beating at the hands of Calzaghe as he would win just 5 of his remaining 16 contests.

It would take Calzaghe a further 21 fights before Calzaghe developed the confidence to fight the man whom Jermain Taylor beat. In his next defence he fought Juan Carlos Giminez. Giminez unfortunately didn't boast an unbeaten record or an olympic medal but to his credit he fought Eubank, Benn, Duran, Mauro Galvano and Juan Roldan unfortunately losing virtually every round to each one of them. He earned his shot at Calzaghe by beating Robson dos santos 1-1, Paul Jones 3-4 and classy veteran Miguel Lopez 1-12-3.

If Froch beats Kessler, Abraham, Dirrell and/ or olympic Gold medalist Andre Dirrell are people going to accept Froch as an ATG or must he make a further 15 defences against the giminez's of this world?

Go on Froch-lad!!! :good:good:good

Perhaps. I can see Hopkins challenging Froch if Froch were to win the tourney.

[rhinocoote]

surely we will not know what sort of legacy that froch leaves until he retires?

i have followed froch since his first fights and have seen many of his bouts live,he's created a great fan base in nottingham.i believe that he go's about his business in a professional manor,alot of people tend to see his confidence as arogance.in boxing how can you have one without the other?
if he wins the tourney,and i believe he can (though it will not be a breeze!),then he has probably been gifted the best progress package in the sport,which will go some way to creating a legacy which may surpass joe's.
froch may only have a short reign as champion,but lets make the most of him whilst he is.:good

[TFFP]

How the FUCK has Carl beaten better fighters domestically than Calzaghe?

Calzaghe beat Eubank, prime Reid and Woodhall, who the fuck has Carl beat? The shell of Robin Reid and Brian Magee...christ.

I'm disapointed in some of your postings on Calzaghe, you have no semblance of perspective at all when it comes to this subject.

[KingCobra]

How the FUCK has Carl beaten better fighters domestically than Calzaghe?

Calzaghe beat Eubank, prime Reid and Woodhall, who the fuck has Carl beat? The shell of Robin Reid and Brian Magee...christ.

I'm disapointed in some of your postings on Calzaghe, you have no semblance of perspective at all when it comes to this subject.

It's hard to weigh it up fairly. I would say that if Carl wins the tournament (and all his fights in it) he would have come close to matching Calzaghes achievements. That's my opinion anyway.

[TFFP]

It's hard to weigh it up fairly. I would say that if Carl wins the tournament (and all his fights in it) he would have come close to matching Calzaghes achievements. That's my opinion anyway.
That has nothing to do with the statement I was responding to, which was 'Carl has already beaten better fighters than Calzaghe dometically'. Which is a pure horse shit statement, with no basis in reality.

Of course if Froch goes on and wins this thing he'll have a strong case.

[KingCobra]

That has nothing to do with the statement I was responding to, which was 'Carl has already beaten better fighters than Calzaghe dometically'. Which is a pure horse shit statement, with no basis in reality.

Of course if Froch goes on and wins this thing he'll have a strong case.

Yeah, sorry pal. I hit the quote button rather than post reply. I agree with what you said.

[DOM5153]

That has nothing to do with the statement I was responding to, which was 'Carl has already beaten better fighters than Calzaghe dometically'. Which is a pure horse shit statement, with no basis in reality.

Of course if Froch goes on and wins this thing he'll have a strong case.

Jeff doesnt seem to like Cal much does he lol

[Tony Bellew]

If he wins this I'll show my ar$e to the vatican..;)

[kosaros]

If he wins it AND remains unbeaten in doing so, then I would say yes.

[TFFP]

Agreed. He'd have 5 top class wins from this tournament to add to wins over Taylor and Pascal. He'd have 7 good wins at world level, to varying degrees.

Not even worth considering until we see how he holds up in his first few fights, 5 fights is a long way in the future.

If Haye beats Valuev and both Klits he's probably one of the greatest British fighters ever, these are just pipedreams at the moment.

[Dan684]

Shut up kos thats horseshit. :lol:

Be under no illusions, Calzaghe would not I REPEAT would not have even dared enter this tourny. Froch gets credit for entering and if he wins then he is better, if he wins whilst remaining undefeated he's miles better.

I wish these threads on Calzaghe would stop now. I was hoping I wouldn't have to hear of him again.

[Kid Lucky]

I don't buy that Calzaghe is rated so highly because of his unbeaten record. I'd rate him highest in my time for the superiority he had over his opponents, skills and ability to change tactics in a fight. He could have lost a dodgy decision in Germany in that time and it wouldn't affect my judgment.

Froch ain't shown enough yet to show that to the same extent as Calzaghe but if he were to win this tourney - that Calzaghe would never never never enter he'll have a better resume then him.

[dan-b]

I don't buy that Calzaghe is rated so highly because of his unbeaten record. I'd rate him highest in my time for the superiority he had over his opponents, skills and ability to change tactics in a fight. He could have lost a dodgy decision in Germany in that time and it wouldn't affect my judgment.

Froch ain't shown enough yet to show that to the same extent as Calzaghe but if he were to win this tourney - that Calzaghe would never never never enter he'll have a better resume then him.

The only thing Joe feared more than planes.

[Cobbler]

Yeah, that always makes me laugh. Like Joe recieves some vicarious credit because a fighter may have improved after he's fought him. Also, the way his fans took some kind of "victory" out of Hopkins' schooling of Pavlik.

How on earth would you evaluate victories without considering the remainder of that fighters career?

Do you consider Hopkins win over Glen Johnson to be about equal to that over Joe Lipsey? And do you rank Jones' victory over Hopkins on the same level as those over Glenn Thomas or Percy Harris?

[brown bomber]

How the FUCK has Carl beaten better fighters domestically than Calzaghe?

Calzaghe beat Eubank, prime Reid and Woodhall, who the fuck has Carl beat? The shell of Robin Reid and Brian Magee...christ.

I'm disapointed in some of your postings on Calzaghe, you have no semblance of perspective at all when it comes to this subject.They were world title fights icelander. Calzaghe beat Steve Wilson and Mark Delaney in domestic fights before moving into world class against alleged World class fighters. :good

[Cobbler]

Domestically he's already beaten better fighters then Calzaghe managed.

Old Eubank
Reid
Woodhall
Delaney

Shot to bits Reid
Dodson
Magee

Sorry, but that's just a laughable statement.

[dan-b]

How on earth would you evaluate victories without considering the remainder of that fighters career?

Do you consider Hopkins win over Glen Johnson to be about equal to that over Joe Lipsey? And do you rank Jones' victory over Hopkins on the same level as those over Glenn Thomas or Percy Harris?

It's never something I'm fully comfortable with because a fighter can improve a lot. The Jones and Hopkins example is a good one because Hopkins was very green at this point although Jones was too. It's a difficult one but if a fighter improves vastly then I think the credit should be limited to a certain degree. What do you think?

[brown bomber]

Jeff, you are obsessed with Joe Calzaghe this thread has proved it without doubt.

Please someone enlighten me here. Who has Froch beat worth mentioning? Taylor is his best win and he got totally outboxed for most of the fight and only won because of Taylor's notorious stamina issues.

His next best win is over an average title holder in Pascal who he also was in trouble against.So what fighters has Calzaghe beaten who are better then Pascal and Taylor? Hardly any and you've got a whole career to pick from. Was Lacy as good as Pascal? How about Woodhall? Maybe Sakio Bika?

Who was better then Taylor? Hopkins? Who else? .....

If you had no doubts about Calzaghes abilities then much like Grant you wouldn't feel the need to defend his shocking technique and his questionable legacy.

[brown bomber]

The only thing Joe feared more than planes.
And live in-form opposition.

[brown bomber]

Old Eubank- WBO tidle
Reid- WBO tidle
Woodhall - WBO tidle
Delaney - British tidle

Shot to bits Reid - British tidle
Dodson - British tidle
Magee - British tidle

The British tidle is a domestic tidle.

The WBO 'world' tidle is an international title meant to be contested by world-class fighters.

The clue is in the name ...'world' tidle.

Hope this helps.

[Cobbler]

It's never something I'm fully comfortable with because a fighter can improve a lot. The Jones and Hopkins example is a good one because Hopkins was very green at this point although Jones was too. It's a difficult one but if a fighter improves vastly then I think the credit should be limited to a certain degree. What do you think?

I agree with how you phrase it here more than your absolute phrasing before.

Jones arguably gets more credit for the win over Hopkins than he should, for example, because of the fighter that Hopkins turned out to be. But there's no doubt that the win does rank above others that may have appeared comparable at the time.

If Kessler dominates everyone in the super six, it could show a massive step up on his part or it could equally merely serve to highlight what a good fighter he already was.

The trouble is that a lot of people on both sides will choose which of the two they believe based on their own agenda more than a valid judgement call.

[brown bomber]

Kessler won't win it he's an over-rated Calzaghe nut hug tool.

[dan-b]

The Pavlik thing specifically annoys me though because Joe could have taken that fight himself and got more credit for it but instead he left the 43 year old legend to do the business while he got on with his joke money fight. Then you get all the Calzaghe fan boys claiming some kind of moral victory even though Joe was not interested in a rematch which Hopkins probably deserved.

[Cobbler]

Old Eubank- WBO tidle
Reid- WBO tidle
Woodhall - WBO tidle
Delaney - British tidle

Shot to bits Reid - British tidle
Dodson - British tidle
Magee - British tidle

The British tidle is a domestic tidle.

The WBO 'world' tidle is an international title meant to be contested by world-class fighters.

The clue is in the name ...'world' tidle.

Hope this helps.

Seems like the WBO title is a world title when you want it to be, but not when you don't. Curious thing to make a distinction on. We're giving Froch extra credit now for not 'moving up to world class' until 31?

[brown bomber]

Seems like the WBO title is a world title when you want it to be, but not when you don't. Curious thing to make a distinction on. We're giving Froch extra credit now for not 'moving up to world class' until 31?He could have probably contested the WBU title much sooner. I think he made the right choice. He's nearly caught up with Calzaghe in 2 fights. If he wins this he is h2h the better fighter but for me but still not an ATG. No disgrace.

[brown bomber]

The Pavlik thing specifically annoys me though because Joe could have taken that fight himself and got more credit for it but instead he left the 43 year old legend to do the business while he got on with his joke money fight. Then you get all the Calzaghe fan boys claiming some kind of moral victory even though Joe was not interested in a rematch which Hopkins probably deserved.Especially when Pavlik has looked a complete pile of shit both before and after the Taylor fights. Joe was terrified of meeting him....

[Danny]

If Frcoh's wins it, then perhaps from a H2H perpsective Froch would surpass Calzaghe!

However, we cannot discount Joe's longevity, his title defenses! Whoever wins the SMW tournament should be given massive props. Each & every guy participating are in their prime or have still yet to reach their peak! No one is past it or shot!

Jermain Taylor is not shot by the way & I think he will surprise a few people by how well he does! I'm not saying he will win, but people completely discount him out of all the guys!

[mattress]

Especially when Pavlik has looked a complete pile of shit both before and after the Taylor fights. Joe was terrified of meeting him....

:patsch

[Mazallan]

Froch equaled JC when he beat Taylor so him beating anyone in super 6 will surpass Calzaghe. Only problem is that the Welsh have a better publicity machine than folk froom Nottingham.

[brown bomber]

:patschDid he fight him? No. Could the fught have been made? Yes. Was Calzaghe afraid of been KO'd definately.

[kosaros]

Froch equaled JC when he beat Taylor so him beating anyone in super 6 will surpass Calzaghe. Only problem is that the Welsh have a better publicity machine than folk froom Nottingham.

Now that is a pile of shit.

[cityofgod]

How the FUCK has Carl beaten better fighters domestically than Calzaghe?

Calzaghe beat Eubank, prime Reid and Woodhall, who the fuck has Carl beat? The shell of Robin Reid and Brian Magee...christ.

I'm disapointed in some of your postings on Calzaghe, you have no semblance of perspective at all when it comes to this subject.

Hater.

Is that the same Eubank who lost 3 of his previous 5 before Joe?

Or was it the Eubank that lost 2 on the spin straight after Joe?

I know the Eubank your referring too.... all of the above !

And is that the same all-conquering Woodhall who'd lost a few times already (by ko) and then immediately turned it in after fighting Joe?

Your right about Reid though... so tell me, after Reid beat him in many people's eyes, why didn't he rematch him, despite everyone clamouring for it?

Because he's a joker.

They only got Reid in because he matched the blueprint: AKA former champion, coming off a defeat to a pedestrian Malinga.

You need to study up sunshine, you really do.

:patsch

[brown bomber]

Hater.

Is that the same Eubank who lost 3 of his previous 5 before Joe?

Or was it the Eubank that lost 2 on the spin straight after Joe?

I know the Eubank your referring too.... all of the above !

And is that the same all-conquering Woodhall who'd lost a few times already (by ko) and then immediately turned it in after fighting Joe?

Your right about Reid though... so tell me, after Reid beat him in many people's eyes, why didn't he rematch him, despite everyone clamouring for it?

Because he's a joker.

They only got Reid in because he matched the blueprint: AKA former champion, coming off a defeat to a pedestrian Malinga.

You need to study up sunshine, you really do.

:patsch:deal Take it to the bank

[Gaz S]

Froch equaled JC when he beat Taylor so him beating anyone in super 6 will surpass Calzaghe. Only problem is that the Welsh have a better publicity machine than folk froom Nottingham.

Yep. Sure does our sheep no favours.

[toffeejack]

So what fighters has Calzaghe beaten who are better then Pascal and Taylor? Hardly any and you've got a whole career to pick from. Was Lacy as good as Pascal? How about Woodhall? Maybe Sakio Bika?

Who was better then Taylor? Hopkins? Who else? .....

If you had no doubts about Calzaghes abilities then much like Grant you wouldn't feel the need to defend his shocking technique and his questionable legacy.

Reid
Kessler
Hopkins
Lacy - The one that destroyed Reid before Joe ruined him
Eubank (even past it Eubank is better than Pascal for sure)

Kessler would destroy Taylor especially at 168 pounds. I'd also fancy Prime Reid to take him all the way as well as past it Eubank.

At least 5 Calzaghe victories are greater than the only 2 decent wins on Froch's resume.

As far your domestic level argument, total and utter bollocks just like TFFP said. (but I don't really believe that you believe that nonsense).

[mattress]

At least 5 Calzaghe victories are greater than the only 2 decent wins on Froch's resume.

Froch has two decent wins?? I must have missed them.;)

The first decent, SMW boxer Froch meets who has a bit of speed, can dig, has ok footwork and doesn't gas at the first opportunity, will take this one-trick pony to market.

Lucky for him that there's only one proven SMW in this tournament.

[dan-b]

I have a feeling Abraham is going to KO Froch.

[cityofgod]

Reid
Kessler
Hopkins
Lacy - The one that destroyed Reid before Joe ruined him
Eubank (even past it Eubank is better than Pascal for sure)

Kessler would destroy Taylor especially at 168 pounds. I'd also fancy Prime Reid to take him all the way as well as past it Eubank.

At least 5 Calzaghe victories are greater than the only 2 decent wins on Froch's resume.

As far your domestic level argument, total and utter bollocks just like TFFP said. (but I don't really believe that you believe that nonsense).

Prime Reid... Prime Reid...Prime Reid :lol:

Is this the same Reid that lost to 40-10 Malinga ? the same guy who Jones knocked out in 5 lop-sided embarrassing rounds several years earlier?

What about Prime Reid (i like that name, 'Prime Reid :D ) when he got completely white-washed by the at best, limited Silvio Branco by scores of 109-118 immeadiately after the Calzaghe defeat?

My facts, yes facts, actually speak volumes about Calzaghe actually in the fact that sandwiched between those 2 sterling losses, he arguably beat Calzaghe !

:hi:



Lacy - The one that destroyed Reid before Joe ruined him


Was that the 'Prime Reid'... 'Reid' ... or the 'Shot Reid' ? lol

Because the Reid i was thinking about, was the one that trained by a swimming pool for 2 weeks prior to going to Florida. Then he actually retired after getting a load of points deducted and it decended into a farce. Reid was certainly not destroyed. Especially when compared to the 'fully fit Reid' who was bounced off the deck by a one-legged Cobra.

[Dan684]

Toffee Jack

Reid - Couple of years past his best (At Least) and there was every possibilty he could have came out with the win. A lot of people think he should have for that matter
Kessler - Superb win at the time but looking at it now its not that good of a win. Especially if Froch wins the tourny
Lacy - Was 24/0 at the time. Thats a green fighter mate, and just look what he's done since. Dont give me the Calzaghe destroyed him rubbish coz Calzaghe doesn't punch hard enough to do that to anyone. He'd hadn't done a great deal 'pre-calzaghe' and done far far less since. Just look at Saturday for proof
Eubank - Years.....YEARS past his best and was beaten 2/2 in his fights after Joe before retiring

I know you didn't mention these 2 but i'll add them anyway.

Jones - Totally shot, beating a one-armed,overated fat faced Lacy does nothing to change that

Hopkins - Way past it, 42 at the time of fighting, Very very nearly beat Calzaghe and in a lot of peoples opinions should have. Beating Pavlik means nothing on the face of it really. Pavlik was stepping up to Middleweight with a virus (we believe) and Hopkins was stepping down from Light Heavy fit and well. Pavlike will probably be found out as a little overrated hence him not taking part in the tourny IMO.

The two stand out victories for Froch are

Pascal - Admittedly for a vacant belt but Pascal has gone on to do better things (a feat no Calzaghe opponent has achievd) by capturing the WBC at light Heavy

Taylor - A little past his best admittedly but still a good candidate for the tourny and still had it, as proved by him ooutboxing Froch for most of the fight.



All in all to win the tourny Froch has to win 4/5 times against Kessler, Abraham, Taylor, Dirrell, or Ward.

This surely would give him a better resume than that of Calzaghe's

[toffeejack]

Prime Reid... Prime Reid...Prime Reid :lol:

Is this the same Reid that lost to 40-10 Malinga ? the same guy who Jones knocked out in 5 lop-sided embarrassing rounds several years earlier?

What about Prime Reid (i like that name, 'Prime Reid :D ) when he got completely white-washed by the at best, limited Silvio Branco by scores of 109-118 immeadiately after the Calzaghe defeat?

My facts, yes facts, actually speak volumes about Calzaghe actually in the fact that sandwiched between those 2 sterling losses, he arguably beat Calzaghe !

:hi:

Just because Reid had a bad day at the office a couple of fights beforehand against Malinga (who was a very good fighter ask Nigel Benn and Eubank) doesn't make someone not in their prime years or at least very close to it.

Fact it, Froch isn't near Joe Calzaghe yet and probably never will get close.

[kosaros]

Hater.

Is that the same Eubank who lost 3 of his previous 5 before Joe?

Or was it the Eubank that lost 2 on the spin straight after Joe?

I know the Eubank your referring too.... all of the above !

And is that the same all-conquering Woodhall who'd lost a few times already (by ko) and then immediately turned it in after fighting Joe?

Your right about Reid though... so tell me, after Reid beat him in many people's eyes, why didn't he rematch him, despite everyone clamouring for it?

Because he's a joker.

They only got Reid in because he matched the blueprint: AKA former champion, coming off a defeat to a pedestrian Malinga.

You need to study up sunshine, you really do.

:patsch

Nuthugger.

[toffeejack]

All in all to win the tourny Froch has to win 4/5 times against Kessler, Abraham, Taylor, Dirrell, or Ward.

This surely would give him a better resume than that of Calzaghe's

IF Froch goes on to beat all them then yes he would have a very good resume.

It won't happen though I'm sure of it. He can't get away with that shit defence when he steps up to that class surely. Especially when he just doesn't have the movement or speed to combat that.

I actually think Froch is good for the sport because of his attitude but I do think the guy is a complete wanker which really puts me off him and has done since around the time he beat Magee.

Like I said respect if he manages to do that from a boxing perspective but I'm convinced it won't happen.

[Dan684]

Well fair enough pal but I think he has a decent chance of doing it. I dont get all this Froch is a wanker stuff though, he seems sound as fuck to me. You may not like him for calling Joe out all the time but I respect him for that because he wanted to prove something. All the Joe nuthuggers claim Jones and Popkins avoided him but in truth if Joe had have gone about his business in the way Froch has then he would have got the fights but he didn't want them.

[pathmanc1986]

Well fair enough pal but I think he has a decent chance of doing it. I dont get all this Froch is a wanker stuff though, he seems sound as fuck to me. You may not like him for calling Joe out all the time but I respect him for that because he wanted to prove something. All the Joe nuthuggers claim Jones and Popkins avoided him but in truth if Joe had have gone about his business in the way Froch has then he would have got the fights but he didn't want them.



thats a valid point imo. calzaghe could have had a much better record (even if he had of lost imo) if he had gone travelling and looking for big fights / unifications. calzaghe was class, but his legitimacy as a 'great' can undoubtedly be seriously questioned imo

[China_hand_Joe]

That has nothing to do with the statement I was responding to, which was 'Carl has already beaten better fighters than Calzaghe dometically'. Which is a pure horse shit statement, with no basis in reality.


Don't debate with people who don't believe their own beliefs.

[Dan684]

Pathmanc the way I see it mate is that for whatever reason the big fights fell through for him, he never once made a scene over it. Why on erath should Hopkins/Jones come to the UK to fight a champion of the weakest organisation with a small fan base (at the time anyway). They had fights over there which was gaurenteed millions for. They were the names so Calzaghe should have travelled. Just take a look at Haye. He doesn't really have a right to be getting the Klitschko fights but he stalked them around the worl calling them out at every opportunity offering to fight them in their own back yard, and accepting shit deals. That is someone who GENUINELY WANTS THE FIGHTS. Calzaghe was far too happy not to take the fights IMO

[Smith]

This thread is hilarious.

Andre Ward is winning this thing anyway.

[Dan684]

Very well could do Smithy

[Smith]

Very well could do SmithyI've had the opportuntiy to study this man a bit in the last week, even when he looked vunreble against Boone et al, he still looked class. He just has that 'thing' where I think a star is going to be born, and raise his game to a P4P level.

I really like Kessler, but after this week, he's had the worst possible draw for himself.

[pathmanc1986]

This thread is hilarious.

Andre Ward is winning this thing anyway.


dont see how you can make that statement. a high class world championship fight with all the pressure of the build up, the pressure of the night itself, the intensity of physicality and mental intensity of fighting a proven world class boxer is something that imo, cannot be prepared for. now im not saying that ward will not win it or has no chance but until hes taken into the trenches and has serious questions asked not just of his ability but his heart, desire and character i cant pick him as a winner just yet

this tourney is great now im thinking about it. i just hope it builds momentum and doesnt become predictable.

im still liking a froch vs kessler finale tho

[Dan684]

I'm picking Froch because I am deliberately allowing myself to be persuaded by blind patriotism (although to be fair he does have a very good chance) but Ward is my sneaky favourite barrign Carl.

[Smazz20]

Kessler is the obvious choice to pick as favourite, but I think Ward might shock him in the opening fight.

People really believe Froch would beat Calzaghe? Based on what exactly? Taylor can box circles around Froch before gassing, but Calzaghe would be annihilted? When did anyone ever clamour for a Robin Reid rematch? He thought he lost the fight himself on the night, which he did. But hey, it's Calzaghe, it was obviouly a hometown decision.

Also, it's funny how Calzaghe can't receive credit for Hopkins going on to destroy Pavlik mere months after everyone claimed he was an old man that was shot to shit. Yet Froch is receiveing credit for beating an equally unproven SM, who would later go on to beat a fairly unproven LH.

[THE KNUCKLE]

domestically he's already beaten better fighters then calzaghe managed. Now moving onto world class he's beaten the wbc light heavyweight champion jean pascal in the british foty and former world middleweight champion jermain taylor in a contender for international foty. Next he takes on highly touted former olympic bronze medallist andre dirrell a fighter who is probably superior to jeff lacy when calzaghe fought him in his 40th odd fight and 16th defence.

At the same stage in his career, calzaghe had captured the vacant wbo title against a weight drained eubank who took the bout at short notice and was a long way past his best, would never win another fight and hadn't scored a world class victory in four years.

In his first defence he took on branko sobot who unsuprisingly wasn't the former undisputed middleweight champion. The fight took place in cardiff not in his opponents country. Sobot like lacy must have suffered a brutal beating at the hands of calzaghe as he would win just 5 of his remaining 16 contests.

It would take calzaghe a further 21 fights before calzaghe developed the confidence to fight the man whom jermain taylor beat. In his next defence he fought juan carlos giminez. Giminez unfortunately didn't boast an unbeaten record or an olympic medal but to his credit he fought eubank, benn, duran, mauro galvano and juan roldan unfortunately losing virtually every round to each one of them. He earned his shot at calzaghe by beating robson dos santos 1-1, paul jones 3-4 and classy veteran miguel lopez 1-12-3.

If froch beats kessler, abraham, dirrell and/ or olympic gold medalist andre dirrell are people going to accept froch as an atg or must he make a further 15 defences against the giminez's of this world?

Go on froch-lad!!! :good:good:good
anti calzaghe,dont know why??where was froch 5 year ago hes no spring chicken jeff

[cityofgod]

Just because Reid had a bad day at the office a couple of fights beforehand against Malinga (who was a very good fighter ask Nigel Benn and Eubank) doesn't make someone not in their prime years or at least very close to it.

So the defeat to Branco straight after was another unlucky day at the office too? lol

And you fancy this workmanlike Reid to beat Jermain Taylor, a man who HOF Bernard Hopkins couldn't?

I think i've utterly exposed your comments and your trying to bail out of backing up your bullshit.



Lacy - The one that destroyed Reid before Joe ruined him


'The one' - I'm sorry, but was their two Jeff Lacy's ? :lol:

So the pre-Calzaghe Lacy, that barely scraped past Omar Sheika (26-6) by scores of 113-115 was a different one that marginally outpointed Peter Manfredo (28-4) by a single point ? yet more bull.


Eubank (even past it Eubank is better than Pascal for sure)


So your saying that Eubank, the faded, losing run Eubank, amid a string of defeats at the end of his long career, would have too much for the new WBC light heavy champion Jean Pascal ?

:lol::lol::lol:

Your name should be Toffee CACK 'cos thats what you talk.

:hi:

[TFFP]

Hater.

Is that the same Eubank who lost 3 of his previous 5 before Joe?

Or was it the Eubank that lost 2 on the spin straight after Joe?

I know the Eubank your referring too.... all of the above !

And is that the same all-conquering Woodhall who'd lost a few times already (by ko) and then immediately turned it in after fighting Joe?

Your right about Reid though... so tell me, after Reid beat him in many people's eyes, why didn't he rematch him, despite everyone clamouring for it?

Because he's a joker.

They only got Reid in because he matched the blueprint: AKA former champion, coming off a defeat to a pedestrian Malinga.

You need to study up sunshine, you really do.

:patsch
I don't need to do any studying. I'm fully aware those names are a damn sight better than Froch's British opposition.

Which is the point I was addressing, as wrongly claimed in the OP.

If you believe Tony Dodson, Brian Magee are better and that Robin Reid entered a time machine prior to fighting Froch you should probably take a look out of the window and check if there is not a wall surrounding the perimeter.

[TFFP]

As for Jeff, you are just drawing distinctions where you see fit, you'll draw a line in the sand anywhere if it means you can 'award' something to Froch rather than Calzaghe.

Froch gets the dubious distinction of beating better British fighters that aren't world class...well done. Any logical person would simply conclude that Calzaghe beat better British fighters, period. But then again you are not logical on this subject.

[JonOli]

All your missing is a Hopkins who Taylor beat twice anyway.

Sorry Calzaghe fans, but that is the truth.

I doubt he will win it though.

[mattress]

Sorry Jon, but the Taylor that beat BH wasn't the Tayler that lost to Froch. Anyway, how Taylor managed to lose that fight is beyond be...stamina should not be an issue at this level.

[Dan684]

Matress, maybe getting punched by such a heavy puncher constantly over 12 rounds affected Taylor in the end ???

[Grant1]

Very well could do Smithy

Even though by your criteria he is 'green'?

[toffeejack]

So the defeat to Branco straight after was another unlucky day at the office too? lol

And you fancy this workmanlike Reid to beat Jermain Taylor, a man who HOF Bernard Hopkins couldn't?

I think i've utterly exposed your comments and your trying to bail out of backing up your bullshit.



'The one' - I'm sorry, but was their two Jeff Lacy's ? :lol:

So the pre-Calzaghe Lacy, that barely scraped past Omar Sheika (26-6) by scores of 113-115 was a different one that marginally outpointed Peter Manfredo (28-4) by a single point ? yet more bull.



So your saying that Eubank, the faded, losing run Eubank, amid a string of defeats at the end of his long career, would have too much for the new WBC light heavy champion Jean Pascal ?

:lol::lol::lol:

Your name should be Toffee CACK 'cos thats what you talk.

:hi:

Get off boxrec and get back to reality you dumb fuck :good

[brown bomber]

Get off boxrec and get back to reality you dumb fuck :goodHe's a bit harsh, but what he's saying is true about Reid, Lacy etc...

[toffeejack]

He's a bit harsh, but what he's saying is true about Reid, Lacy etc...

He has a point about Lacy's win against Reid ok I can see that. Reid was past his best of course but doesn't change the fact that a lot of people (like yourself have admitted) watched that fight and thought that Lacy could destroy anyone at 168. Then Calzaghe batters him for 12 rounds and all of a sudden he's a hype job.

[robpalmer135]

i am kind of hoping for a taylor or ward win in the 1st round because if all 3 yanks loose the tourney will fall apart.

[essexboy]

Even if he wins its debatable. He's certainly less talented anyway. I cant see him winning so it'll be irrelevant most probably.

[Ilesey]

Nah, not really.

[crespo21]

Froch has to win it...... If I get one thing off Santa this and next year I want Froch to end the Calzaghe ATG debate. If he wins it will be the perfect way to demonstrate how blind some people are.

Errrrrr. The guy who is favourite to who the tourne is Kessler. A fighter joe beat.
And its going to take a miracle for him not to win. And even if Froch does somehow win. It is not enough to surpass Calzaghe. Seeing as Joe would slap the shit out of any of the fighters in the comp.
Why dont you just go to wales and give him one and get it over with.
You know you want too. We are not fooled by this fake hate.

[cityofgod]

Joe beat Kessler because he fought with a broken hand.

(broken hands are somewhat of a hindrance in boxing)

When Froch beats a fully fit Kessler in his hometown of Copenhagen, this thread is game,set and match.

[mattress]

When Froch beats a fully fit Kessler in his hometown of Copenhagen, this thread is game,set and match.

If Carl manages to come in the top 3 of this tournament, I'd see that as a success.

[Irishrover91]

He aint gunna win it, i cant even see him getn into the semis he has Kessler, Dirrell and AA both Kessler and AA wil KO him cos of his low defense and Dirrell will oubox him to a UD

[crespo21]

Joe beat Kessler because he fought with a broken hand.

(broken hands are somewhat of a hindrance in boxing)

When Froch beats a fully fit Kessler in his hometown of Copenhagen, this thread is game,set and match.

And Calzaghe never beat anyone with dodgy hands did he.

[mattress]

And Calzaghe never beat anyone with dodgy hands did he.

good call sir.

[Farmboxer]

Calzaghe will still be the best.

[FLINT ISLAND]

The Pavlik thing specifically annoys me though because Joe could have taken that fight himself and got more credit for it but instead he left the 43 year old legend to do the business while he got on with his joke money fight. Then you get all the Calzaghe fan boys claiming some kind of moral victory even though Joe was not interested in a rematch which Hopkins probably deserved.

I believe a semi-shot RJJ @ 175 is a tougher fight than an under the weather blown up middleweight. But that's with hindsight. The eventual match-ups shows the difference between Hopkins, Pavlik + Calzaghe. Calzaghe was a shithouse hypochondriac, until the 1st bell rang, then he was a warrior.

[Grant1]

I believe a semi-shot RJJ @ 175 is a tougher fight than an under the weather blown up middleweight. But that's with hindsight. The eventual match-ups shows the difference between Hopkins, Pavlik + Calzaghe. Calzaghe was a shithouse hypochondriac, until the 1st bell rang, then he was a warrior.

Just one question -

Who's that in your avvy?

[Losfer_Words]

I believe a semi-shot RJJ @ 175 is a tougher fight than an under the weather blown up middleweight. But that's with hindsight. The eventual match-ups shows the difference between Hopkins, Pavlik + Calzaghe. Calzaghe was a shithouse hypochondriac, until the 1st bell rang, then he was a warrior.

What an interesting assessment of JC 'the man' and JC 'the fighter':good.

[mcguirpa]

Even if he wins its debatable. He's certainly less talented anyway. I cant see him winning so it'll be irrelevant most probably.

Therein lies the debate. head to head it ain't even close. Froch doesn't win a round. Career and record wise though Froch will finish his career ahead IMHO. Calzaghe never laid everything on the line. Froch did in his very first defence.

[Strike]

If he won every fight, then yes. It would mean he had beaten Calzaghes best win or at least equal best win, plus two very dangerous young fighters and already with wins over Pascal and Taylor.

[cityofgod]

And Calzaghe never beat anyone with dodgy hands did he.

Absolutely agree.

That one handed display against the monster that was Evans Ashira was truly the stuff of legend status.

The way he handled that 5'7 light middleweight with a bruised knuckle was incredible.

Especially when you compare Joe's 12 round point's win, over Carl Froch's KO of seasoned southpaw Brian Magee.

You know the one, where Froch snapped his thumb in round two yet went on to knock out the Irishman for the first time in his career ?

That was not a patch on the seat-of-your pants Ashira effort by Joe .......

Or Froch's ruptured extensor hood he sustained in the opening rounds of his Henry Porras ko win ....

Which then had a knock-on effect on his win over slippery Matthew Barney (who'd just been screwed out of the EBU 175lb title) for which he postponed a hand op and took injection to keep the show going.

Then we have Joe who.. well there aint enough text to type his pull-outs with back, flu, hand, wrist excuses... "No Show Joe".

[FLINT ISLAND]

Just one question -

Who's that in your avvy?

Katie Downes

[TFFP]

Absolutely agree.

That one handed display against the monster that was Evans Ashira was truly the stuff of legend status.

The way he handled that 5'7 light middleweight with a bruised knuckle was incredible.

Especially when you compare Joe's 12 round point's win, over Carl Froch's KO of seasoned southpaw Brian Magee.

You know the one, where Froch snapped his thumb in round two yet went on to knock out the Irishman for the first time in his career ?

That was not a patch on the seat-of-your pants Ashira effort by Joe .......

Or Froch's ruptured extensor hood he sustained in the opening rounds of his Henry Porras ko win ....

Which then had a knock-on effect on his win over slippery Matthew Barney (who'd just been screwed out of the EBU 175lb title) for which he postponed a hand op and took injection to keep the show going.

Then we have Joe who.. well there aint enough text to type his pull-outs with back, flu, hand, wrist excuses... "No Show Joe".
Where do we get these clowns? :rofl

Brian Magee, Matthew Barney and Henry Porras are now legends of the game...Evans Ashira is not a patch on these brutes. Evans Ashira probably beats every clown on Froch's record pre-Pascal, thats how shitty his competition was and how long it took him to step up. Calzaghe's was poor for years, Froch's was beyond awful.

[Addie]

Oh and by the way Alan Page who Froch stopped in his tenth fight beat Kessler in the amateurs. Kessler is a hype job conveniently placed on a pedestal by Calzaghe loyalists :-)

Don't read to much into that. David Tua was knocked out in the amateurs, that has never came close to happening in the pro's.

Because the format in this Super Six Tournament is so great, whoever comes out victorious has already built himself one hell of a resume. Four of those fighters are undefeated, only one of them can potentially remain so after all is said and done. This is an absolutely groundbreaking tournament, and one that the sport of Boxing has been crying out for.

In the event Carl Froch is victorious, he would have a stellar resume and would have already practically cleaned up at SMW. That is very credible, but it wouldn't be enough to surpass the legacy of Joe Calzaghe, who proved himself over a much longer period of time. It's a hell of a start, though.

[UndisputedUK]

Try living in South Wales. Calzaghe's a god here. This, from people who have never even heard of Jimmy Wilde or Howard Winstone, fighters from their own door step.

Wales is a small country you don't tend to have to go looking for someone to find them, you just bump into them!
Having Calzage and Wilde from the principality along with the other stars is stellar.

[UndisputedUK]

Froch would have to beat more and better opponents than Calzaghe because his title reign won't be as long.

Winning the super 6 without a loss and perhaps beating Bute and Balzsay would put him up there.

However, Froch won't have:-

Chris Eubank, Roy Jones and Bernard Hopkins on his record. These were the cream of the crop at 160-175lbs around the early to mid 1990's.

[UndisputedUK]

Don't read to much into that. David Tua was knocked out in the amateurs, that has never came close to happening in the pro's.

Because the format in this Super Six Tournament is so great, whoever comes out victorious has already built himself one hell of a resume. Four of those fighters are undefeated, only one of them can potentially remain so after all is said and done. This is an absolutely groundbreaking tournament, and one that the sport of Boxing has been crying out for.

In the event Carl Froch is victorious, he would have a stellar resume and would have already practically cleaned up at SMW. That is very credible, but it wouldn't be enough to surpass the legacy of Joe Calzaghe, who proved himself over a much longer period of time. It's a hell of a start, though.


Bute is IBF and arguably the best of the bunch. Balzsay is WBO and no bum. I'd fancy Balzsay over Abraham, Taylor and perhaps one of the undefeated Americans. He would not have cleaned up the division.

[crespo21]

Where do we get these clowns? :rofl

Brian Magee, Matthew Barney and Henry Porras are now legends of the game...Evans Ashira is not a patch on these brutes. Evans Ashira probably beats every clown on Froch's record pre-Pascal, thats how shitty his competition was and how long it took him to step up. Calzaghe's was poor for years, Froch's was beyond awful.

Thanks TF. Saved of writing it.
Fucking laughable comeback.

[widdy]

Thanks TF. Saved of writing it.
Fucking laughable comeback.
thought it was ok really.:tong

back to the series,who ever wins this,supasses JC,beating the best of the best is something we don't see to often in all the weights:good

[yesihavearm2]

Calzaghe has already handily beaten Kessler who is the favourite to win the super6 tournament.

Calzaghe would win every second of every round in a fight vs Carl Froch.

Froch would lose to Chris Eubank, Mikkel Kessler, Bernard Hopkins and Roy Jones and possibly even pre-shoulder surgery Jeff Lacy.

Carl Froch was getting SCHOOLED against Jermain Taylor before Taylor gassed. I had Taylor 9-3 up.




Carl Froch is the supermiddleweight equivalent of Carlos Baldomir or Antonio Margarito, he will go as far as his very good chin allows him to. Comparing him to Calzaghe is an absolute joke Jeff, this thread is nearly as bad as your Ricky Hatton "2 victories" thread.

[cityofgod]

Where do we get these clowns? :rofl

Brian Magee, Matthew Barney and Henry Porras are now legends of the game...Evans Ashira is not a patch on these brutes. Evans Ashira probably beats every clown on Froch's record pre-Pascal, thats how shitty his competition was and how long it took him to step up. Calzaghe's was poor for years, Froch's was beyond awful.

Oh i do apologise... i thought i was commentating on the comment made that Calzaghe fought with bad hands...

Ive illustrated that Froch has a) fought with genuine, proven bad hand injuries and b) not only won, but knocked out better opponents.

Thus putting that 'excuse' to bed.

You just stick to the insults kids, let the big boys talk FACTS

:hi:

[cityofgod]

Is TFFP ...

PFFFFT spelt backwards?

From now on i shall address you as 'Cartoon Fart'.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[TFFP]

You've quite clearly demonstrated what an adult you are...:lol:

You don't even need to try with some of the goons on here these days. Johnny come lately glory fans, I was one of the few fuckers defending Froch only a year or so ago before he fought Pascal. He was a long running joke, but I knew he'd step it up and be good for his word. Retards like you are priceless coming along like you know something...:p

[Siren1927]

If he won every fight, then stepped up and beat whoever is the LHW champ ( probably dawson) then hes dam close

[Farmboxer]

Americans give Froch no chance to win even one fight.

[Max Molyneux]

Hell no, he ain't going to win anyway. Can't be a lucky puncher forever.

[mryeags]

Froch had the bollox to take a first title defence against Jermaine Taylor .... that for me seperates Calzaghe and Froch ....

[Siren1927]

Froch had the bollox to take a first title defence against Jermaine Taylor .... that for me seperates Calzaghe and Froch ....

So one fight against a guy that had lost 2 of his last 3 drew the one before that and was winning the fight untill the lst 20 seconds makes his legacy better than calzaghes?

[mattress]

So one fight against a guy that had lost 2 of his last 3 drew the one before that and was winning the fight untill the lst 20 seconds makes his legacy better than calzaghes?

I know, it is laughable, isnt it?

["TKO"]

I get the impression that this thread is somewhat tongue in cheek from Jeff. Regardless, there is no way unless he beats all of the other 5 one after the other that this point can even be argued.