The Moon-Galaxy Rivalry

[Flea Man]

For me these two fights encompass one of the best rivalries of the little weights.

I re-visited these two fights after McGrain posted his 'Fenech vs Zarate TD 4' thread; he said on that thread that he felt it was a letdown that the fight stopped early, that he saw something in Zarate and that he would've liked to have seen more, whatever the outcome.

For me, this immediately brought to mind the first Khaokor Galaxy and Sung Kil Moon fight.

For the first few rounds Moon employs some very good and well-thought out aggression; he cuts off the ring regularly, and Galaxy is merely pawing with his jab.

Something that really impresses about Moon is that when out of range he will swing a wild hook from distance (similar to Jofre) which takes Galaxy's attention away from his fast foot movement which brings him in to range.

In the first few rounsd Moon looks the stronger of the two, a picture completely different from their 2nd fight (more on that later) In the 3rd and 4th round Galaxy starts to stand his ground and trade with Moon, again Moon looks the stronger of the two. I particularly like the way Galaxy doubles up with a left straight and uppercut. Moon rallies back, but it's still quite a cagey affair.

The penultimate fifth round features some spirited exchanges. Here, Khaokor starts to turn Moon and get him against the ropes, but in the middle of the round Moon responds with some hellacious blows; of which Galaxy asks for more! I believe Moon briefly hurts Galaxy with about 20 seconds left; he then pushes him back to the ropes and unleashes a combination at Galaxy, who in turn uses his own strength to bull Moon back and exchange. Right at the end of the round Galaxy shows off one of his fantastic combinations; he such variety in his shots. Maybe a slightly lesser puncher compared to his Brother, but two things must be taken into consideration; one is that Khaosai never came up against a formidable presence such as Moon. Even though only 6 fights into his career he clearly possesed a solid chin. The other things is that Khaokor's punches are turned over very well and they are always solid shots; they are meant to do damage, and I feel he is a B+ puncher in terms of all-time Bantams. Around the same as say, Lionel Rose?

The stoppage is fair IMO. A bad clash of heads after a spirited exchange? It is clearly right on top of the eyelid and very deep indeed. I don't feel it was designed to give Moon, who was clearly ahead, the title and stop an emerging and resurgant Galaxy from coming back and retaining. It was just IMO.

How do you guys think this would've panned out? Do you think Galaxy had figured Moon out?


Now, the 2nd fight for me is a completely different affair. I think you can say it takes off from where the first fight ended.

Moon comes out strong but Galaxy comes right back at him. He stuns Moon briefly and constantly throws sharp but solid straight blows. One thing I really like about Galaxy is that he doesn't seem to move out of range much; he will let his opponent come into range and try and land some counters on him. If it doesn't come off, he simply uses his immense strength to push Moon away. Now, Moon himself was very strong; in fact, although I am going to wax lyrical about just what I loved about Galaxy in this fight, it is clearly not one-sided; it is very, very competitive.

Moon impresses me with his sheer will and determination. Whatever Galaxy throws at him he keeps coming. One thing then; Is Galaxy able to beat him so convincingly due to Moon being one dimensional? Or is Moon sufficiently dangerous enough to render this performance impressive still? (a mix of the both IMO)

I would like to give the 2nd round to Moon. Both fighters are busy, and Galaxy is landing some sickening body shots in the first round and using good movement. I think this is a very close round because of this. Moon lands a very good series of blows towards the end of the round after initially knocking Galaxy off balance. Moon was very busy.

As the fight goes on Galaxy starts to overwhelm Moon by turning him and pushing him away, letting off combinations on the inside and outside.

At the end of the seventh round Khaokor hurts Moon and has him pinned against the ropes. Here he shows the same instinct for finishing opponents in the corner as his brother; the same cold-eyed stare, picking the shots efficiently and every one with bad intentions. Moon shows a solid chin to stand up to these.

The 10th round is a fantastic one. I'm tempted to say it's one of my favourite rounds of all time. Khaokor is getting very confident it seems, and almost forgets who he's in there with. Backing Moon up against the ropes Galaxy briefly trades wildly.

Moon sharp shoots a straight right at Galaxy and knocks him back. Like a Shark with blood Moon is unrelenting. He punches Galaxy across the ring and has the ex-champ holding. Another series of punches has Galaxy holding again.

However; Galaxy throws a beautiful right hook at Galaxy which reminded me of the hook that Castillo felled Corrales with in their rematch (from an orthodox stance of course) a hook-cum-uppercut that enables him to perform in the last ten seconds or so. This is a very close round with both men hurt but I give it to Moon.

In the 11th Moon shows his toughness and courage, getting continuously beaten on and falling down after a seemingly endless assault on the ropes. Strangely, the Referee administers a standing 8-count shortly afterwards, even though Moon is against the ropes he doesn't seem to have been held up by them.

Another nice touch about Galaxy is his intelligence; even though he has Galaxy very hurt in the 11th he comes out for the last round 'dancing'; keeping out of range, not allowing Moon chance to snatch a late victory. It must've been hard for Moon to fathom when Galaxy was tired, as he has a way of stepping out of the action, laboriously dropping his arms before re-setting as if to say 'Oh, you again'. :lol:

Now, my card is very, very wide. How did others score it? Is Galaxy's ring generalship really as good as I make out.

It is genuinely one of the most complete Bantamweight performances I have ever seen. His ring generalship is incredible and varied.

One thing I am interested in is the build-up to both fights, especially the 2nd. Is there anything about Moon's preperation that I do not know about that may affect the way I view this performance? I'm guessing one of the well-read guys on here will have read 'Ring Magazine' from around the time.

One thing I'm very eager to find out more about is Galaxy's final match which follows the 2nd Moon fight; a fix? Galaxy's chin seemed nigh-on undentable, and he could slip blows as well as ship them. Does this fight detract from his final standing or H2H ability?

I have yet to see his fight with Vasquez, but a SD in Thailand seems vaguely dodgy. How good was this win and is it available?

Am I overrating Moon? How would you rate Khaokor H2H; does he have 'his level'? I.e are there any ATG's/Good H2H Bantams you would not fancy his chances against at all? Who is the best ATG you'd figure he could beat?

Maybe I am just high and over-hyping these fights?



All statements in Boldtype are things I would like people to comment on specifcally or at least take into consideration. 'Conversation pieces' if you will, as if these two fighters aren't enough. I am asking a lot with this I know, they're just two fights I am very interested in and I would like more information and others opinions.

If you've perservered with this :good :good :good

[teeto]

That's some mighty fine write up Flea. I haven't seen either of these fights as of yet unfortunately, but i'm definitely going to now, i'm interested. Youtube?

[Flea Man]

That's some mighty fine write up Flea. I haven't seen either of these fights as of yet unfortunately, but i'm definitely going to now, i'm interested. Youtube?

Both on the tube. 2nd fight has dodgy sound but it's mainly a Thai guy speaking in a language I don't understand and a crowd that sound like a baying Roman public at a Gladiator vs Two Tigers battle (pure hyperbole I'm on Bunce-mode :lol:)

Watch them in order, makes the 2nd fight more impressive IMO and I envy you watching them for the first time bud:good

[teeto]

Both on the tube. 2nd fight has dodgy sound but it's mainly a Thai guy speaking in a language I don't understand and a crowd that sound like a baying Roman public at a Gladiator vs Two Tigers battle (pure hyperbole I'm on Bunce-mode :lol:)

Watch them in order, makes the 2nd fight more impressive IMO and I envy you watching them for the first time bud:good
Haha, really? I'm in for some treat then it seems, thanks for introducing me to a piece of boxing hiatory i haven't ventured into thus far.

[Flea Man]

Haha, really? I'm in for some treat then it seems, thanks for introducing me to a piece of boxing hiatory i haven't ventured into thus far.

Even if what most I have written is through pure hysterics, they're entertaining fights and a good clash of styles.

[teeto]

Even if what most I have written is through pure hysterics, they're entertaining fights and a good clash of styles.
Well i'm about to find out, in a few minutes or so.

[teeto]

Okay i just watched the first fight, what a great war that was. Galaxy looked a decent ring general in there but his opponent was looking a bit of a force of nature, especially early on. Then Galaxy suprised me by showing not just a more than competent skillset, but plenty of grit and determination, pushing Moon back must have been some task. Moon just kept hitting back and unleashing two fisted combos though. It reminded me a bit of (and not to make comparisons) when In Jin Chi just kept coming into Michael Brodie's range and you started to fear for the mancunian (never thought i'd say that! hahaha), but Galaxy give a much better account fo himself than what occurred that evening. Both men showed a good set of whiskers here as well, shipping heavy artillery from one another without really flinching in honesty.

Were either known as big hitters?

[Scorpion]

Okay i just watched the first fight, what a great war that was. Galaxy looked a decent ring general in there but his opponent was looking a bit of a force of nature, especially early on. Then Galaxy suprised me by showing not just a more than competent skillset, but plenty of grit and determination, pushing Moon back must have been some task. Moon just kept hitting back and unleashing two fisted combos though. It reminded me a bit of (and not to make comparisons) when In Jin Chi just kept coming into Michael Brodie's range and you started to fear for the mancunian (never thought i'd say that! hahaha), but Galaxy give a much better account fo himself than what occurred that evening. Both men showed a good set of whiskers here as well, shipping heavy artillery from one another without really flinching in honesty.

Were either known as big hitters?


Galaxy is rated as number 19 on the 100 greatest punchers list, also had 43 ko's in 49 wins. Only one loss I think.

EDIT

Sorry I made a mistake, I was talking about the other Galaxy.:oops:

[Flea Man]

Okay i just watched the first fight, what a great war that was. Galaxy looked a decent ring general in there but his opponent was looking a bit of a force of nature, especially early on. Then Galaxy suprised me by showing not just a more than competent skillset, but plenty of grit and determination, pushing Moon back must have been some task. Moon just kept hitting back and unleashing two fisted combos though. It reminded me a bit of (and not to make comparisons) when In Jin Chi just kept coming into Michael Brodie's range and you started to fear for the mancunian (never thought i'd say that! hahaha), but Galaxy give a much better account fo himself than what occurred that evening. Both men showed a good set of whiskers here as well, shipping heavy artillery from one another without really flinching in honesty.

Were either known as big hitters?

I'd say Khaokor was solid.

Sung-Kil Moon has been desrcibed by (I think it was WhatARock) as a Bantam with 'the power of Jackson but the delivery of Mugabi'. Sorry if I mistquoted whoever that was :good

[WhataRock]

I'd say Khaokor was solid.

Sung-Kil Moon has been desrcibed by (I think it was WhatARock) as a Bantam with 'the power of Jackson but the delivery of Mugabi'. Sorry if I mistquoted whoever that was :good


Mantequilla said that I believe...but thanks for the kudos :D

[Flea Man]

Mantequilla said that I believe...but thanks for the kudos :D

Indeed he did :good

Thanks for the correction.

[Sweet Pea]

Moon was a huge puncher. His physical tools were so fantastic that he was able to use them to his advantage in spite of his technical ineptitude. He was so often off balance after firing off shots, but the momentum he was able to build so quickly in every swing was just overwhelming for opponents, regardless of their technical efficiency. Also, as has been stated, he threw with tremendous power. Aside from just having naturally heavy hands, the momentum he had in his fists (be it arm punches or otherwise) made them like pendulums.

[Flea Man]

Moon was a huge puncher. His physical tools were so fantastic that he was able to use them to his advantage in spite of his technical ineptitude. He was so often off balance after firing off shots, but the momentum he was able to build so quickly in every swing was just overwhelming for opponents, regardless of their technical efficiency. Also, as has been stated, he threw with tremendous power. Aside from just having naturally heavy hands, the momentum he had in his fists (be it arm punches or otherwise) made them like pendulums.

and what are your opinions on Khaokor Pea?

[Sweet Pea]

and what are your opinions on Khaokor Pea?He reminded me of his brother (and a lot of Thai fighters that cross over into boxing) with his lackadaisical approach and Muay Thai guard. I was never much a fan of that style, but the Galaxy brothers did have some impressive physical abilities. Khaokor was probably more versatile and technically able than Khaosai, who was the bigger puncher. Khaosai, though was a lot more muscular than Khaokor, and stronger than he or any fighter at the weight for that matter. Not sure how they'd have fared vs each other (anyone have any insight on this?).

[Flea Man]

He reminded me of his brother (and a lot of Thai fighters that cross over into boxing) with his lackadaisical approach and Muay Thai guard. I was never much a fan of that style, but the Galaxy brothers did have some impressive physical abilities. Khaokor was probably more versatile and technically able than Khaosai, who was the bigger puncher. Khaosai, though was a lot more muscular than Khaokor, and stronger than he or any fighter at the weight for that matter. Not sure how they'd have fared vs each other (anyone have any insight on this?).

Khaosai was freakishly strong and muscular for the weight.

At a Catchweight in between Super-Fly and Bantam I'd say Khaokor. He had a very good chin and enough variety to stop his brother IMO.

How do you rate his performance in the 2nd Moon fight? as one-sided as I said? Just intrigued to see others' opinions as I know how highly regarded Moon is on here and was surprised this performance hasn't received more acclaim.

Maybe it's just me :good

[Sweet Pea]

I'll add that Khaokor had a better chin than Khaosai.

[Flea Man]

I'll add that Khaokor had a better chin than Khaosai.

Khaosai did have good powers of recovery though. Well, from what I've seen his tremendous power either made his opponents wary of attempting to finish him or bailed him out.

[Flea Man]

I think Mantequilla would be able to add a lot to this, he's big on both guys as far as I remember.

Just intrigued to see if anyone knows why Moon got so battered in the second fight? As I say, it was still competitive but he seemed to have lost a lot of the strength he had in the first fight for portions of the rematch. Again, Khaokor was very strong in his own right.

I agree with you Pea on the muay thai guard, a bit strange just pawing both hands out in front of you. But he had very good reflexes and slipping too.

[Sweet Pea]

Khaosai was freakishly strong and muscular for the weight.

At a Catchweight in between Super-Fly and Bantam I'd say Khaokor. He had a very good chin and enough variety to stop his brother IMO.

How do you rate his performance in the 2nd Moon fight? as one-sided as I said? Just intrigued to see others' opinions as I know how highly regarded Moon is on here and was surprised this performance hasn't received more acclaim.

Maybe it's just me :good

In the first fight, Khaokor was just too damn conservative in the early rounds, which is why he lost the technical decision. In the rematch, he opened up with his hands early on, and the power in his body punches clearly had Moon uncomfortable, which is why he won damn near every round.

To be fair, Moon was still a young'n at this point, though I'd still say Khaokor always had a pretty good style to beat him. While he may have looked lazy, his guard was actually very effective and often took the sting out of Moon's punches, if not outright blocked them. And his body punching and power would've always given him trouble. He proved that he could take Moon's punches as well, which ultimately gives him the advantage whenever they fight. Khaokor was very durable.

[Flea Man]

In the first fight, Khaokor was just too damn conservative in the early rounds, which is why he lost the technical decision. In the rematch, he opened up with his hands early on, and the power in his body punches clearly had Moon uncomfortable, which is why he won damn near every round.

To be fair, Moon was still a young'n at this point, though I'd still say Khaokor always had a pretty good style to beat him. While he may have looked lazy, his guard was actually very effective and often took the sting out of Moon's punches, if not outright blocked them. And his body punching and power would've always given him trouble. He proved that he could take Moon's punches as well, which ultimately gives him the advantage whenever they fight. Khaokor was very durable.

my thoughts exactly.

To be honest I was so surprised anyone could dominate Moon so comprehensively. Especially when you consider Moon would go on to force Konadu to quit.

[teeto]

I'm finding it hard to say, as has been mentioned, Khaokor is clearly more versatile in terms of his fighting style, actually he could be described as quite a clever ring general at times. Facing off with his sibling though, all of that might be academic, as much as he is knocked on this board, Khaosai could keep a man in a corner all day. I think the fight might turn out every bit as good as the first Moon fight i just saw, but i'd likely lean towards Galaxy to edge it.

Haha, Khaosai that would be.

[Flea Man]

I'm finding it hard to say, as has been mentioned, Khaokor is clearly more versatile in terms of his fighting style, actually he could be described as quite a clever ring general at times. Facing off with his sibling though, all of that might be academic, as much as he is knocked on this board, Khaosai could keep a man in a corner all day. I think the fight might turn out every bit as good as the first Moon fight i just saw, but i'd likely lean towards Galaxy to edge it.

Haha, Khaosai that would be.
First bold; agreed.

2nd bold; Khaokor very good at turning his opponent.

Think it would be close. I think Khaosai is often unfairly slated due to that infamous Ring Mag list I just feel Khaokor is more varied.

At say a 116.5 catchweight? :good

Glad you enjoyed the fights mate :good

[Flea Man]

Now personally I can't see Khaokor beating the 'holy trinity'; Olivares, Zarate or Jofre.

Which fighters do you guys think he could beat? I think he'd tame and possibly stop Rafa Marquez. Is that 'his level'?

[natonic]

Nothing to add here yet, just thanks, because this is a really good, informative post. I have an ever growing list of fights to watch and it seems like less time to watch them. I'm currently watching the 2 Jofre-Harada fights (a couple rounds at a time). I'll bump Moon-Galaxy up to the top of the queue. It'll be cool to see how they compare to the greats.

[Flea Man]

Nothing to add here yet, just thanks, because this is a really good, informative post. I have an ever growing list of fights to watch and it seems like less time to watch them. I'm currently watching the 2 Jofre-Harada fights (a couple rounds at a time). I'll bump Moon-Galaxy up to the top of the queue. It'll be cool to see how they compare to the greats.

Thanks :good

My next 'analysis' (more observations I guess) is of Harada-Jofre 1. Hope you enjoy that too, when I get round to it :lol:

[Quick Cash]

Yeah, I've always had an issue with that one. It didn't seem to me like a super tight match. I'm of course pertaining to Jofre-Harada. I've always thought that the Japanese fighter won by being aggressive and outworking Eder. I'm looking forward to that discussion.

[Flea Man]

Yeah, I've always had an issue with that one. It didn't seem to me like a super tight match. I'm of course pertaining to Jofre-Harada. I've always thought that the Japanese fighter won by being aggressive and outworking Eder. I'm looking forward to that discussion.

well he did. That was the result. I'm gonna try and figure out 'Why'? :good

[teeto]

First bold; agreed.

2nd bold; Khaokor very good at turning his opponent.

Think it would be close. I think Khaosai is often unfairly slated due to that infamous Ring Mag list I just feel Khaokor is more varied.

At say a 116.5 catchweight? :good

Glad you enjoyed the fights mate :good
Oh i agree that Khaokor is definitely more varied, and what you said about him turning his man very well, i think that might fall into the category of his being a very nice ring general, that we both agreed on. It's a tough one to call, even with the size advantage imo, but a bit of extra workrate early on might edge a decision for Khaosai, who knows? Maybe Khaokor would just be better, etter opposition he has fared well against.

[Flea Man]

Oh i agree that Khaokor is definitely more varied, and what you said about him turning his man very well, i think that might fall into the category of his being a very nice ring general, that we both agreed on. It's a tough one to call, even with the size advantage imo, but a bit of extra workrate early on might edge a decision for Khaosai, who knows? Maybe Khaokor would just be better, etter opposition he has fared well against.

At the same time Khaosai is solid. Khaosai is the harder puncher; he has very heavy hands and seemed an awesome finisher from what I've seen (which is a lot but against middling-to-fair opposition)

To me Khaosai is like Khaokor in destroy mode but with more power. same planting of the feet, subtle movements cutting off the ring, a plodding movement with the awkward Muay Thai guard and well-timed/delivered shots.

Two things; I don't think the size is such an issue. They're twins! Khaosai is also just about the most beastly looking super-fly I have ever seen. I just think that whilst the Bantam Brother could slip in and out of 'seek and destroy mode', I haven't seen much evidence that Khaosai can do much else apart from destroy, although of course he did that very, very well. There is no doubt in my mind that is entirely feasible that Khaosai could knock out 118lb men; Men with the chin of his Brother? Yeah, I reckon so. One thing Khaosai is NOT overrated in is his sheer power, which even against average opposition was evident.

I have just realised that I have been my 'subjects' name wrong for the entire thread; It's Kaokor, not kHaokor as I am been spelling it:patsch

Again, thanks to everyone for their contributions, how do you guys see Kaokor measuring up against other 'ATG's'?

A fight I'm thinking about at the moment is Kaokor vs Jeff Chandler.

Also, re: his final match. He was sparked in the 1st round but I'm reliably informed this seemed very, very dodgy indeed (Kaokor's proven chin being an obvious indication) with a supposed 'delayed reaction'. Has anyone seen it and if so, doe it look odd?

[teeto]

At the same time Khaosai is solid. Khaosai is the harder puncher; he has very heavy hands and seemed an awesome finisher from what I've seen (which is a lot but against middling-to-fair opposition)

To me Khaosai is like Khaokor in destroy mode but with more power. same planting of the feet, subtle movements cutting off the ring, a plodding movement with the awkward Muay Thai guard and well-timed/delivered shots.

Two things; I don't think the size is such an issue. They're twins! Khaosai is also just about the most beastly looking super-fly I have ever seen. I just think that whilst the Bantam Brother could slip in and out of 'seek and destroy mode', I haven't seen much evidence that Khaosai can do much else apart from destroy, although of course he did that very, very well. There is no doubt in my mind that is entirely feasible that Khaosai could knock out 118lb men; Men with the chin of his Brother? Yeah, I reckon so. One thing Khaosai is NOT overrated in is his sheer power, which even against average opposition was evident.

I have just realised that I have been my 'subjects' name wrong for the entire thread; It's Kaokor, not kHaokor as I am been spelling it:patsch

Again, thanks to everyone for their contributions, how do you guys see Kaokor measuring up against other 'ATG's'?

A fight I'm thinking about at the moment is Kaokor vs Jeff Chandler.

Also, re: his final match. He was sparked in the 1st round but I'm reliably informed this seemed very, very dodgy indeed (Kaokor's proven chin being an obvious indication) with a supposed 'delayed reaction'. Has anyone seen it and if so, doe it look odd?
Good post, i'm intrigued and interested by that ko loss now as well. I agree with your post, it's clear who the more versatile warrior was, and who the more prolific demolition man was, both are exciting to watch, Khaosai in the more general sense, but his brother wows the viewer even more when he seems to get pissed off and engage his man because at first you don't think it's 'in him', or part of his game to be more fair.

[AlFrancis]

At the same time Khaosai is solid. Khaosai is the harder puncher; he has very heavy hands and seemed an awesome finisher from what I've seen (which is a lot but against middling-to-fair opposition)

To me Khaosai is like Khaokor in destroy mode but with more power. same planting of the feet, subtle movements cutting off the ring, a plodding movement with the awkward Muay Thai guard and well-timed/delivered shots.

Two things; I don't think the size is such an issue. They're twins! Khaosai is also just about the most beastly looking super-fly I have ever seen. I just think that whilst the Bantam Brother could slip in and out of 'seek and destroy mode', I haven't seen much evidence that Khaosai can do much else apart from destroy, although of course he did that very, very well. There is no doubt in my mind that is entirely feasible that Khaosai could knock out 118lb men; Men with the chin of his Brother? Yeah, I reckon so. One thing Khaosai is NOT overrated in is his sheer power, which even against average opposition was evident.

I have just realised that I have been my 'subjects' name wrong for the entire thread; It's Kaokor, not kHaokor as I am been spelling it:patsch

Again, thanks to everyone for their contributions, how do you guys see Kaokor measuring up against other 'ATG's'?

A fight I'm thinking about at the moment is Kaokor vs Jeff Chandler.

Also, re: his final match. He was sparked in the 1st round but I'm reliably informed this seemed very, very dodgy indeed (Kaokor's proven chin being an obvious indication) with a supposed 'delayed reaction'. Has anyone seen it and if so, doe it look odd?



Here it is
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[teeto]

AlFrancis to the rescue once again.

[AlFrancis]

Looks like he fainted. looks very tight at the weight.

[Flea Man]

Here it is
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED THERE??!?!?!!?!??




Well, clearly he had a good chin, that doesn't bring his chin into question at all.

It makes me thing A)of his health B)his terrible acting skills.

Another thing that comes to mind that some health reason might point toward why he retired straight after this. Just strange that it came to occur at the beginning of a round in a fight, and wasn't spotted before.

can ANYONE clear this up?

Thanks Al :good and what are your opinions on the Moon-Galaxy fights and of Kaokor H2H?

[teeto]

Just watched it, fuckin mad that

[Flea Man]

Looks like he fainted. looks very tight at the weight.

Hmmm. As I say, strange it happened there. Maybe all the lights and the heat of the arena brought it all up to the surface? Why didn't he move up to 122? Who was reigning there at the time (not that I could imagine Kaokor ducking anyone, two name on his resume supercede all of his brothers opponents, sorry to keep comparing them but as they're twins they're genes are similar; hence I'm figuring out which one is the 'bottler', although I'm reliably informed Watanabe avoided Khaosai due to him not being a big name) and if he COULDN'T move up what kind of health issues must he have had?

Again, thanks Al :good

[teeto]

I reckon Chandler beats him now anyway, from seeing that! (just kidding with you Flea, though i'd likely pick him ultimately)

[Flea Man]

I reckon Chandler beats him now anyway, from seeing that! (just kidding with you Flea, though i'd likely pick him ultimately)

Oh I'm no nuthugger :lol:

I also think Chandler is another underrated Bantam to be honest.

I'm still reeling from that clip; very, very odd indeed. :think

[teeto]

Oh I'm no nuthugger :lol:

I also think Chandler is another underrated Bantam to be honest.

I'm still reeling from that clip; very, very odd indeed. :think
Nar i know you don't nuthug, i was just kidding. Chandler was a class boxer in his era, one of the best of it, he'd pose problems to some of the best no doubt. The likes of Jofre's and Olivares' era had a lot of the cream of the crop type men though, great eras both, and somewhat interlinked.

[natonic]

I find Chandler to be generally underrated. I like Olivares, Jofre, Harada at the top, add in Zarate, then I start thinking of Chandler in the next group of bantams. I intend to do some homework on Kaokor though.

[Flea Man]

Nar i know you don't nuthug, i was just kidding. Chandler was a class boxer in his era, one of the best of it, he'd pose problems to some of the best no doubt. The likes of Jofre's and Olivares' era had a lot of the cream of the crop type men though, great eras both, and somewhat interlinked.


I agree with your late statement entirely. For me (in terms of H2H ability i.e ABILITY in general) Jofre, Olivares and Zarate are very much the top tier.

Next in line I'd say Pintor and Rose and Canizales would be right behind them. I'm trying to figure out where to place Kaokor; his resume isn't exactly deep (win over Moon and win over Wilfredo Vasquez which I've yet to see it's probably on the tube and my next 'must-see' are the clear highlights) but take away that bizarre loss (which doesn't seem caused by a punch; maybe the stylistic challenge just fazed him and he thought 'fuck this this guy's well lanky' OR as Al correctly pointed out he looks weight-drained) and you have one loss;

The TD to Moon.

In terms of H2H ability, when you consider the all-round game he showed in the 2nd Moon fight he ranks high IMO.

As Pea correctly pointed out Moon was still learning. As I assumed and as he also said, Moon was still a very dangerous opponent that was hard to deal with. Especially in the manner that Galaxy achieved.

[Flea Man]

I find Chandler to be generally underrated. I like Olivares, Jofre, Harada at the top, add in Zarate, then I start thinking of Chandler in the next group of bantams. I intend to do some homework on Kaokor though.

I'm glad he's captured your imagination :good

What I really should've done is posted all the vids from the tube on here. Oh, well allow people to read and then seek out more if they want. Glad I swayed you buddy.

[teeto]

I agree with your late statement entirely. For me (in terms of H2H ability i.e ABILITY in general) Jofre, Olivares and Zarate are very much the top tier.

Next in line I'd say Pintor and Rose and Canizales would be right behind them. I'm trying to figure out where to place Kaokor; his resume isn't exactly deep (win over Moon and win over Wilfredo Vasquez which I've yet to see it's probably on the tube and my next 'must-see' are the clear highlights) but take away that bizarre loss (which doesn't seem caused by a punch; maybe the stylistic challenge just fazed him and he thought 'fuck this this guy's well lanky' OR as Al correctly pointed out he looks weight-drained) and you have one loss;

The TD to Moon.

In terms of H2H ability, when you consider the all-round game he showed in the 2nd Moon fight he ranks high IMO.

As Pea correctly pointed out Moon was still learning. As I assumed and as he also said, Moon was still a very dangerous opponent that was hard to deal with. Especially in the manner that Galaxy achieved.
Good post all round.

[natonic]

I agree with your late statement entirely. For me (in terms of H2H ability i.e ABILITY in general) Jofre, Olivares and Zarate are very much the top tier.

Next in line I'd say Pintor and Rose and Canizales would be right behind them. I'm trying to figure out where to place Kaokor; his resume isn't exactly deep (win over Moon and win over Wilfredo Vasquez which I've yet to see it's probably on the tube and my next 'must-see' are the clear highlights) but take away that bizarre loss (which doesn't seem caused by a punch; maybe the stylistic challenge just fazed him and he thought 'fuck this this guy's well lanky' OR as Al correctly pointed out he looks weight-drained) and you have one loss;

The TD to Moon.

In terms of H2H ability, when you consider the all-round game he showed in the 2nd Moon fight he ranks high IMO.

As Pea correctly pointed out Moon was still learning. As I assumed and as he also said, Moon was still a very dangerous opponent that was hard to deal with. Especially in the manner that Galaxy achieved.

Flea, I like Chandler in that second group you mention. Not to get off topic, but I look forward to your Harada-Jofre analysis. I'm currently watching that series and found myself trying to picture Olivares in against Harada. I'll save my comments on that for the appropriate thread.

[Flea Man]

Good post all round.

Thanks very much.

Still wish Mantequilla come on I'm sure he'd be able to offer some very good tidbits including info on the 'demise' of Kaokor.

[teeto]

Thanks very much.

Still wish Mantequilla come on I'm sure he'd be able to offer some very good tidbits including info on the 'demise' of Kaokor.
Nar, he just got sparko'd by a very good fighter in Espinosa. I thought you watched the vid.

[Flea Man]

Nar, he just got sparko'd by a very good fighter in Espinosa. I thought you watched the vid.

You think? You know, that it's a genuine stoppage? To me it seems 'health related'.

[teeto]

You think? You know, that it's a genuine stoppage? To me it seems 'health related'.
Obvioulsy i was winding you up. Come on man!

[Flea Man]

Obvioulsy i was winding you up. Come on man!

Eh, calm down calm down :lol:

[teeto]

Eh, calm down calm down :lol:
Hahahaha, you're pissin me off now Flea, getting my perm and muzzy all up in a bunch!

[AlFrancis]

WHAT THE FUCK HAPPENED THERE??!?!?!!?!??




Well, clearly he had a good chin, that doesn't bring his chin into question at all.

It makes me thing A)of his health B)his terrible acting skills.

Another thing that comes to mind that some health reason might point toward why he retired straight after this. Just strange that it came to occur at the beginning of a round in a fight, and wasn't spotted before.

can ANYONE clear this up?

Thanks Al :good and what are your opinions on the Moon-Galaxy fights and of Kaokor H2H?



I haven't seen the fights but I do rate Moon who fought better opposition.
First time I saw him fight was at the 84 Olympics when my next door neighbour John Hyland was unlucky enough to draw him. John was a good amateur I saw him win a close one over Paul Hodkinson. Moon though took him apart, too strong. I think he beat the American in them games as well, Robert Shannon before he went out on a cut eye.
It's harder to judge Khaokor because apart from a couple, I'm unfamiliar with most of his opponents. Moon might of been a bit green when he fought him. Anyone seen the wilfredo Vasquez fight? A split decision in Thaland!

[teeto]

I haven't seen the fights but I do rate Moon who fought better opposition.
First time I saw him fight was at the 84 Olympics when my next door neighbour John Hyland was unlucky enough to draw him. John was a good amateur I saw him win a close one over Paul Hodkinson. Moon though took him apart, too strong. I think he beat the American in them games as well, Robert Shannon before he went out on a cut eye.
It's harder to judge Khaokor because apart from a couple, I'm unfamiliar with most of his opponents. Moon might of been a bit green when he fought him. Anyone seen the wilfredo Vasquez fight? A split decision in Thaland!
Thanks for that, never knew John Hyland fought a great fighter in Moon.

[AlFrancis]

Suppose I'll have to watch them now!

[AlFrancis]

Hahahaha, you're pissin me off now Flea, getting my perm and muzzy all up in a bunch!



Haha. I actually had the perm and muzzy in my younger days. Driving round in my Cortina mk5, thought i looked the bollocks. Looking back now i just looked like bollocks.

[teeto]

Haha. I actually had the perm and muzzy in my younger days. Driving round in my Cortina mk5, thought i looked the bollocks. Looking back now i just looked like bollocks.
Haha, try and refrain from looking back in hindsight Al. See if you can get one of those things from Men In Black that wipes out your memory. haha

[Flea Man]

I haven't seen the fights but I do rate Moon who fought better opposition.
First time I saw him fight was at the 84 Olympics when my next door neighbour John Hyland was unlucky enough to draw him. John was a good amateur I saw him win a close one over Paul Hodkinson. Moon though took him apart, too strong. I think he beat the American in them games as well, Robert Shannon before he went out on a cut eye.
It's harder to judge Khaokor because apart from a couple, I'm unfamiliar with most of his opponents. Moon might of been a bit green when he fought him. Anyone seen the wilfredo Vasquez fight? A split decision in Thaland!

Great anecdote and information as always Al :good

I was saying the same thing? Hopefully it's on the tube.

[Flea Man]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The Vasquez fight :good

[AlFrancis]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

The Vasquez fight :good
:good

[Flea Man]

:good

be interesting to see if it's at all 'iffy'.

[AlFrancis]

be interesting to see if it's at all 'iffy'.


I'm 1 minute into the 4th and i've got him comfortably up. I gave Vasquez the first on workrate.

[Flea Man]

I'm 1 minute into the 4th and i've got him comfortably up. I gave Vasquez the first on workrate.

I watched a snippet of the last part and Galaxy is just throwing a jab, dictating the pace. That's all I've seen. I'ma put it on my ipod and go watch it out in the shed...........Mum won't let me smoke in the house :lol:

Hopefully it will be a good'un. If he wins convincingly it will further his credentials in my eyes.

[Flea Man]

I gave the first two rounds to Vasquez on pressing the fight, though I was surprised at how Galaxy was getting closer each time in countering the longer height and reach of Vasquez.

From the 3rd-to-mid rounds what caught my eye was Galaxy's varied attack, particularly to the body. A few times he had Vasquez backpeddling after hitting him with some barbaric shots to the midsection. Good countering shots from Galaxy too; Gomez using his jab well though, not quiting landing with any power punches yet. Nothing significant anyway.

I give the 9th round to Vasquez. Towards the end of the round he starts to time Galaxy better. Right at the end he lands a succession of straight rights down the pipe that all land, maybe four in a row. Galaxy takes them well.

Vasquez picks up right where he left off at the beginning of th 10th, for me the closest of the fight. He fires a few straight rights and follows with a left hook that has Galaxy covering up as Vasquez attempts another combination. Galaxy pushes Vasquez away and fires back but Vasquez tries to maintain the jab and still fires back a few combos. I'm actually going to go for the better work in the first half of the fight, and give this round to Vasquez. I think he dominated the first 30-60 seconds or so and it was relatively close afterward.

The 11th and 12th; Galaxy dominates these rounds IMO. The 12th round he gives Vasquez a real shellacking, first off dictating the pace with his jab, which he throws with a minimum of effort but a maximum of potency. It keeps Vasquez away, and then Galaxy launches a sustained attack that gives him the fight easily.

The controversial Hometown Decision is this time too close; a SD in Galaxy's favour. I hd Galaxy 116-112.

From this fight however I saw a possible Zarate match come to the fore; I decided that Zarate would stop Galaxy, who has given a good account of himself, around the 9th. Like Vasquez, Zarate is tall for a Bantam and has an upright style on the outside but can throw short punches on the inside. He also threw a nice straight jab and steady, unflashy footwork.

What Zarate has in leaps and bounds over Vasquez is increased timing and accuracy, as well as a massive amount in power.

The reason I think Galaxy does okay is because of his good body attack and lateral movement, proven durability and a good straight left. The only time I have seen Zarate hurt pre-Gomez is against Rodolfo Martinez. I think it's in the 6th round; Martinez lands a nice straight left that briefly buckles Zarate and sends him back, although he quickly recovers.

Galaxy would be getting tagged late, and hit hard; he has a good chin but against Zarate it's out of the question.

I'm quite wrecked and typing in a stream of consciousness. That hypothetical matchup is probably uncalled for and uninteresting but fuck it :rofl :good

[Raging B(_)LL]

Just intrigued to see if anyone knows why Moon got so battered in the second fight?

Moon`s trainer dying the day before the fight surely affected his performance a great deal, he definately didn`t look like the same man from their first encounter notwithstanding Khaokor`s better form in the rematch.

Had it not been for his trainers death Moon would have at the very least acquitted himself better, but as is stands he showed a ton of guts and durability as he got the snot kicked out of him most of the way and still made it to the final bell.

[AlFrancis]

Nice analysis and altough I didn't put pen to paper scoring it I wouldn't argue with your scorecard. How one judge scored for Vasquez is beyond me. He was competitive though throughout the fight but Galaxy did seem to be dictating for most part. Very strong and a good body puncher. Wonder how he would of went against Venice Borkorsor.

[AlFrancis]

Gonna watch the Moon fights tomorrow, Need to see more of him.

[Flea Man]

Moon`s trainer dying the day before the fight surely affected his performance a great deal, he definately didn`t look like the same man from their first encounter notwithstanding Khaokor`s better form in the rematch.

Had it not been for his trainers death Moon would have at the very least acquitted himself better, but as is stands he showed a ton of guts and durability as he got the snot kicked out of him most of the way and still made it to the final bell.


:good Good post, exactly the kind of info I was looking for!

[Flea Man]

Gonna watch the Moon fights tomorrow, Need to see more of him.

Enjoy :good


I need to look up Borkhorsor, don't know enough about him in all honesty.

[Flea Man]

Harada vs Galaxy is another very intriguing clash styles.

I was thinking today about Hamed's performance about a past-prime and out of his best weight Vasquez; Which was more impressive? Hamed pretty much dominated and stopped Vasquez(who was more wiley) but Galaxy looked terrific against him also, closer to his prime.

[GPater11093]

Eh, calm down calm down :lol:

:rofl

Haha. I actually had the perm and muzzy in my younger days. Driving round in my Cortina mk5, thought i looked the bollocks. Looking back now i just looked like bollocks.

:lol:

nice choice of car though. When i was younger me and my Dad used to watch alot of the Proffesionbals and Sweeney etc.. so i love them Cortinas, old style escorts and my favrouite the Capri's.



Just saw that first round 'KO'

I thought it was funny the way the ref walked across the screen then you just saw Galacy lieing on the ground. Definitly looked like he fainted even the way he looked on the ground was like he had fainted.

I ll watch these 2 great wars (as im told) soon as im bust at the moment and have been trying for a few days to get some time to watch Pryor vs Arguello 1 (which i have concurred is the greatest fight ever)

As for the talk of the Golden Bantams.

The best Bantamweight ever for me was Ruben Olivares, he was brilliant one of the best fighters i have ever seen.

Lionel Rose belongs as part of these Golden Bantams. Hes one of my favrouite fighters to watch and a great 'pure' boxer. Very hard to out box.

I havent saw enough of Zarate just the destruction of Zamora.

Jofre i have seen the fights with Harada and Medal and from that videos he belongs up there aswell. His long straight calculated shots were simply amazing. Again one of the best boxers i have ever seen.

Harada belongs up there aswell. Have only saw the Rose and Jofre (first) fight of him but he did impress me. However i did think he was quite wild and reckless but upon learning more and watching the fights again he was actually a very underrated boxer (not the greatest boxer though). Im very impressed at him just not as much as the other guys

God, i love the bantams

[Flea Man]

God, i love the bantams

:good:good:good:good:good

[GPater11093]

:good:good:good:good:good

Im really getting into that Hasegawa hes a solid fighter.

Im getting a heap of Fly/Bantam with some other fights mixed in from RB. So ill love Fly/Bantam even more.

Really got into the lower weights recently way better than the heavyweights

[Flea Man]

Im really getting into that Hasegawa hes a solid fighter.

Im getting a heap of Fly/Bantam with some other fights mixed in from RB. So ill love Fly/Bantam even more.

Really got into the lower weights recently way better than the heavyweights

Different to the Heavys certaintly.

Fingers crossed for Hasegawa-Donaire sometime in 2010, not too many Jap nuthuggers around :lol::good

[GPater11093]

Different to the Heavys certaintly.

Fingers crossed for Hasegawa-Donaire sometime in 2010, not too many Jap nuthuggers around :lol::good

Hasegawa vs Donaire

Donaires a light fly/fly aint he? moving up to Superfly

Id rather see Hasegawa vs Montiel that would be good.

also theres a guy at Minimumweight Roman Gonzalez whos very good and was trained by Arguello for a few months when he was younger. Recently came by some of his early fights

[Flea Man]

Hasegawa vs Donaire

Donaires a light fly/fly aint he? moving up to Superfly

Id rather see Hasegawa vs Montiel that would be good.

also theres a guy at Minimumweight Roman Gonzalez whos very good and was trained by Arguello for a few months when he was younger. Recently came by some of his early fights

You're way behind me mate! I'm admittedly a Gonzalez nuthugger, the Niida win was a fantastic one. I really want to see him fight Joyi, who I've yet to see in action but have only heard brilliant things about. He's the IBF champ.

Though it looks Gonzalez is moving up to Light-Fly, hopefully a fight with a returning Solis before a fight with Villoria. Doubt Roman is on Calderon's radar to be honest.

[Sweet Pea]

The Rose bout is about the worst footage of Harada you could view, where he was badly weight drained and slowing down by that point anyway. If you want to see him in his prime, just re-watch the Jofre fights, he was a superb boxer. Excellent technique, brilliant combinations to the head and body, beautiful footwork, good defense, etc. Harada was one of the most versatile lower weight fighters of all time.

[GPater11093]

You're way behind me mate! I'm admittedly a Gonzalez nuthugger, the Niida win was a fantastic one. I really want to see him fight Joyi, who I've yet to see in action but have only heard brilliant things about. He's the IBF champ.

Though it looks Gonzalez is moving up to Light-Fly, hopefully a fight with a returning Solis before a fight with Villoria. Doubt Roman is on Calderon's radar to be honest.

I think i have Joyis last fight, hes South African aint he? just fought an eliminater?

would be good anyhoo.

Gonzalez yeh should fight Solis then move up to Ligh-Fly and Villoria would be a cracking fight. Possibly then the winner of Calderon vs that lanky guy remtach.

[Flea Man]

I think i have Joyis last fight, hes South African aint he? just fought an eliminater?

would be good anyhoo.

Gonzalez yeh should fight Solis then move up to Ligh-Fly and Villoria would be a cracking fight. Possibly then the winner of Calderon vs that lanky guy remtach.

Mayol.

You have Joyi's fight with Condes? If so WOW!

[GPater11093]

Mayol.

You have Joyi's fight with Condes? If so WOW!

yeh i have Joyi vs Condes.

also have Baloyi vs Klassen these South African fights are good but hard to come by.

Yeh Mayol is th guy i was thinking about

[Flea Man]

yeh i have Joyi vs Condes.

also have Baloyi vs Klassen these South African fights are good but hard to come by.

Yeh Mayol is th guy i was thinking about

my dvd's will be here tomorrow. always up the postie posting shit off so I will send you my list the end of this week.

I know you say 'you always say that' and that's completely true but ask WhataRock about Joyi I been raving on about him for ages and YOU HAVE FOOTAGE!!!!! :happy:happy:happy

[GPater11093]

my dvd's will be here tomorrow. always up the postie posting shit off so I will send you my list the end of this week.

I know you say 'you always say that' and that's completely true but ask WhataRock about Joyi I been raving on about him for ages and YOU HAVE FOOTAGE!!!!! :happy:happy:happy

wow never saw you get so organised so quick

yeh nice one if you send your list you got mine somewhere dont you.

i havent actually seen the Joyi fight yet ill watch it tommorow before going to the gym

[Flea Man]

wow never saw you get so organised so quick

yeh nice one if you send your list you got mine somewhere dont you.

i havent actually seen the Joyi fight yet ill watch it tommorow before going to the gym

yeah I will I'm sure you can recomend a few things as well as the Joyi fight. I'll pretty much leave that in your hands mate.

I'm sure you will enjoy he's supposed to be 'a master'. Although Condes is aggressive he's not great, shame Gonzalez is moving up, with a bit more exposure for the tiny men this would be recognised as a match-up that needs to happen.

Again I say this without actually seeing Joyi though this doesn't stop a lot of old-time fighters being favoured round here.

[GPater11093]

yeah I will I'm sure you can recomend a few things as well as the Joyi fight. I'll pretty much leave that in your hands mate.

I'm sure you will enjoy he's supposed to be 'a master'. Although Condes is aggressive he's not great, shame Gonzalez is moving up, with a bit more exposure for the tiny men this would be recognised as a match-up that needs to happen.

Again I say this without actually seeing Joyi though this doesn't stop a lot of old-time fighters being favoured round here.

ive also heard good stuff about Joyi. also theres another young South African boy who was in Boxing Monthly lately hes about 19 and had afew fights was supposed to be really good, very skilled and dedicated etc...

heard in his last figth he was abit of a stinker but we all have our off days i suppose. cant remember his name though as he is a minimumweight aswell.

I've alota fights ill send your way that i have, like Baloyi vs Klassan

[Flea Man]

ive also heard good stuff about Joyi. also theres another young South African boy who was in Boxing Monthly lately hes about 19 and had afew fights was supposed to be really good, very skilled and dedicated etc...

heard in his last figth he was abit of a stinker but we all have our off days i suppose. cant remember his name though as he is a minimumweight aswell.

I've alota fights ill send your way that i have, like Baloyi vs Klassan

Ummm....he's a light-fly, looks like a tiny Joe Bugner (facially haven't seen him fight) can't think of his name at the moment.

There's a Flyweight,the WBU Champ I think who is supposed to be a phenomenal puncher. Came back from a funny term at the gym so might be talking Anifiwoshe territory hope (bloody hope not)

Will have to gon the WBU website and have a look.

Anyway, this thread appears dead until someone else decides to give me some more info :lol:

[GPater11093]

Ummm....he's a light-fly, looks like a tiny Joe Bugner (facially haven't seen him fight) can't think of his name at the moment.

There's a Flyweight,the WBU Champ I think who is supposed to be a phenomenal puncher. Came back from a funny term at the gym so might be talking Anifiwoshe territory hope (bloody hope not)

Will have to gon the WBU website and have a look.

Anyway, this thread appears dead until someone else decides to give me some more info :lol:

yeh thats the one. Has pet snakes aswell.

have a look for him cant think who your talking about

this thread might live but we better stop hijacking it

[Flea Man]

yeh thats the one. Has pet snakes aswell.

have a look for him cant think who your talking about

this thread might live but we better stop hijacking it

:lol:

[sweet_scientist]

Nice thread, been a good read. :good

[Flea Man]

Nice thread, been a good read. :good

:good

[GPater11093]

just got some DVDs from RB dosent look like ill have time to watch this fights but ill bump it up when i do.

Fleaman got something youll cream yourself over. Jofre and Arguello sparring

[AlFrancis]

just got some DVDs from RB dosent look like ill have time to watch this fights but ill bump it up when i do.

Fleaman got something youll cream yourself over. Jofre and Arguello sparring


Have you seen it yet?

[GPater11093]

Have you seen it yet?

no but im going to watch it tonight looking forward to it

[AlFrancis]

no but im going to watch it tonight looking forward to it



I've seen it

[GPater11093]

nice one is it worth it

[AlFrancis]

nice one is it worth it


I was a bit disappointed as I thought it might of been from around 73-74 but it is an exhibition match from much later.

[GPater11093]

yeh Jofre looked old but Alexis looked in good shape. Alexis played around and Jofre showed some real fast feet in closing the distance but didnt do much haha

it was a good laugh though i enjoyed it. funny stuff if you expect it to be a laugh.

Alexis obviously had huge respect for Jofre though i noted that.#

As for the KD at the end i think it was a dive

[AlFrancis]

yeh Jofre looked old but Alexis looked in good shape. Alexis played around and Jofre showed some real fast feet in closing the distance but didnt do much haha

it was a good laugh though i enjoyed it. funny stuff if you expect it to be a laugh.

Alexis obviously had huge respect for Jofre though i noted that.#

As for the KD at the end i think it was a dive

Reminds me of the Pep Robinson exhibition

[GPater11093]

yeh it does but that one Ray Robinson is sprinting round the ring around Pep who actually wants to spar so then goes sod it and starts throwing Eubank esque shots all the while Marciano is doing serious commentery

[AlFrancis]

Old experienced Jofre of the Saldivar fight versus young inexperienced Arguello of the Marcel fight. Who wins? Only a couple of months between these fights.

[GPater11093]

thats a tough one but i think Jofres experiance would be too much for Arguellos youth. but a very close fight. Just think Jofre could out savvy him and controll the fight better than Alexis could and that would be pivotal, but then again Alexis was bigger and had a hell of a punch

too close to call

[teeto]

thats a tough one but i think Jofres experiance would be too much for Arguellos youth. but a very close fight. Just think Jofre could out savvy him and controll the fight better than Alexis could and that would be pivotal, but then again Alexis was bigger and had a hell of a punch

too close to call
Close to call, but i might agree.

[AlFrancis]

thats a tough one but i think Jofres experiance would be too much for Arguellos youth. but a very close fight. Just think Jofre could out savvy him and controll the fight better than Alexis could and that would be pivotal, but then again Alexis was bigger and had a hell of a punch

too close to call


I wouldn't argue with that. One of those that got away.

[GPater11093]

haha i really hedged my bets didnt i.

my pick was Jofre.

I always think Jofre vs Rose prime for prime would be a good fight as i think Rose has slightly more speed but Jofre is more clever and there quite similar boxers. very tough to call that

[teeto]

haha i really hedged my bets didnt i.

my pick was Jofre.

I always think Jofre vs Rose prime for prime would be a good fight as i think Rose has slightly more speed but Jofre is more clever and there quite similar boxers. very tough to call that
I think it would be very difficult to beat Jofre from long range personally.

[GPater11093]

I think it would be very difficult to beat Jofre from long range personally.

you worded that wrong it sounds liek youd struggle to beat Jofre at long range

the personally should have gone at the start

i think im failing english at school so i dont know

yeh i agree with taht statement but if anyone can do it the Rose who beat Harada can. Remember my theory about the faster guy winning in a similar fight well Rose could maybe pull it off

[teeto]

you worded that wrong it sounds liek youd struggle to beat Jofre at long range

the personally should have gone at the start

i think im failing english at school so i dont know

yeh i agree with taht statement but if anyone can do it the Rose who beat Harada can. Remember my theory about the faster guy winning in a similar fight well Rose could maybe pull it off
Nar i meant that in a long range battle, anyone would be hard pressed to beat the GREAT Eder Jofre (haha, on a roll here me). Rose has a brilliant left hand, for both countering and jabbing especially. Jofre can hit a man with all kinds and is crafty as well from that range, i do think he'd take a decision personally. When it goes to close quarters Rose is strong as hell but i think Jofre would be better.

[GPater11093]

i agree Teeto i just think theres a chance Rose can get it a slight one though.

I rate Rose higher than most though and he was alot bigger than Jofre.

[teeto]

i agree Teeto i just think theres a chance Rose can get it a slight one though.

I rate Rose higher than most though and he was alot bigger than Jofre.
Yeah Rose is a great great fighter and has a chance undoubtedly. Most intimidating bantam i;ve seen ever!

[GPater11093]

nah most intimaidating bantam is olivares the guy looked crazy and he was a huge puncher. very scary stuff.

jofre would be hard to beat at long range but if anyone has a chance its Lionel

[teeto]

I meant Rose is intimidating as in, on the way down to the ring, he looks probably more intimidating just by his eyes than Tyson does in a ringwalk! And then when the robe comes off the man is a monster, a beast.

[GPater11093]

yeh he is a beast. he looks like a man fighting a boy when you see him

[AlFrancis]

For me these two fights encompass one of the best rivalries of the little weights.

I re-visited these two fights after McGrain posted his 'Fenech vs Zarate TD 4' thread; he said on that thread that he felt it was a letdown that the fight stopped early, that he saw something in Zarate and that he would've liked to have seen more, whatever the outcome.

For me, this immediately brought to mind the first Khaokor Galaxy and Sung Kil Moon fight.

For the first few rounds Moon employs some very good and well-thought out aggression; he cuts off the ring regularly, and Galaxy is merely pawing with his jab.

Something that really impresses about Moon is that when out of range he will swing a wild hook from distance (similar to Jofre) which takes Galaxy's attention away from his fast foot movement which brings him in to range.

In the first few rounsd Moon looks the stronger of the two, a picture completely different from their 2nd fight (more on that later) In the 3rd and 4th round Galaxy starts to stand his ground and trade with Moon, again Moon looks the stronger of the two. I particularly like the way Galaxy doubles up with a left straight and uppercut. Moon rallies back, but it's still quite a cagey affair.

The penultimate fifth round features some spirited exchanges. Here, Khaokor starts to turn Moon and get him against the ropes, but in the middle of the round Moon responds with some hellacious blows; of which Galaxy asks for more! I believe Moon briefly hurts Galaxy with about 20 seconds left; he then pushes him back to the ropes and unleashes a combination at Galaxy, who in turn uses his own strength to bull Moon back and exchange. Right at the end of the round Galaxy shows off one of his fantastic combinations; he such variety in his shots. Maybe a slightly lesser puncher compared to his Brother, but two things must be taken into consideration; one is that Khaosai never came up against a formidable presence such as Moon. Even though only 6 fights into his career he clearly possesed a solid chin. The other things is that Khaokor's punches are turned over very well and they are always solid shots; they are meant to do damage, and I feel he is a B+ puncher in terms of all-time Bantams. Around the same as say, Lionel Rose?

The stoppage is fair IMO. A bad clash of heads after a spirited exchange? It is clearly right on top of the eyelid and very deep indeed. I don't feel it was designed to give Moon, who was clearly ahead, the title and stop an emerging and resurgant Galaxy from coming back and retaining. It was just IMO.

How do you guys think this would've panned out? Do you think Galaxy had figured Moon out?


Now, the 2nd fight for me is a completely different affair. I think you can say it takes off from where the first fight ended.

Moon comes out strong but Galaxy comes right back at him. He stuns Moon briefly and constantly throws sharp but solid straight blows. One thing I really like about Galaxy is that he doesn't seem to move out of range much; he will let his opponent come into range and try and land some counters on him. If it doesn't come off, he simply uses his immense strength to push Moon away. Now, Moon himself was very strong; in fact, although I am going to wax lyrical about just what I loved about Galaxy in this fight, it is clearly not one-sided; it is very, very competitive.

Moon impresses me with his sheer will and determination. Whatever Galaxy throws at him he keeps coming. One thing then; Is Galaxy able to beat him so convincingly due to Moon being one dimensional? Or is Moon sufficiently dangerous enough to render this performance impressive still? (a mix of the both IMO)

I would like to give the 2nd round to Moon. Both fighters are busy, and Galaxy is landing some sickening body shots in the first round and using good movement. I think this is a very close round because of this. Moon lands a very good series of blows towards the end of the round after initially knocking Galaxy off balance. Moon was very busy.

As the fight goes on Galaxy starts to overwhelm Moon by turning him and pushing him away, letting off combinations on the inside and outside.

At the end of the seventh round Khaokor hurts Moon and has him pinned against the ropes. Here he shows the same instinct for finishing opponents in the corner as his brother; the same cold-eyed stare, picking the shots efficiently and every one with bad intentions. Moon shows a solid chin to stand up to these.

The 10th round is a fantastic one. I'm tempted to say it's one of my favourite rounds of all time. Khaokor is getting very confident it seems, and almost forgets who he's in there with. Backing Moon up against the ropes Galaxy briefly trades wildly.

Moon sharp shoots a straight right at Galaxy and knocks him back. Like a Shark with blood Moon is unrelenting. He punches Galaxy across the ring and has the ex-champ holding. Another series of punches has Galaxy holding again.

However; Galaxy throws a beautiful right hook at Galaxy which reminded me of the hook that Castillo felled Corrales with in their rematch (from an orthodox stance of course) a hook-cum-uppercut that enables him to perform in the last ten seconds or so. This is a very close round with both men hurt but I give it to Moon.

In the 11th Moon shows his toughness and courage, getting continuously beaten on and falling down after a seemingly endless assault on the ropes. Strangely, the Referee administers a standing 8-count shortly afterwards, even though Moon is against the ropes he doesn't seem to have been held up by them.

Another nice touch about Galaxy is his intelligence; even though he has Galaxy very hurt in the 11th he comes out for the last round 'dancing'; keeping out of range, not allowing Moon chance to snatch a late victory. It must've been hard for Moon to fathom when Galaxy was tired, as he has a way of stepping out of the action, laboriously dropping his arms before re-setting as if to say 'Oh, you again'. :lol:

Now, my card is very, very wide. How did others score it? Is Galaxy's ring generalship really as good as I make out.

It is genuinely one of the most complete Bantamweight performances I have ever seen. His ring generalship is incredible and varied.

One thing I am interested in is the build-up to both fights, especially the 2nd. Is there anything about Moon's preperation that I do not know about that may affect the way I view this performance? I'm guessing one of the well-read guys on here will have read 'Ring Magazine' from around the time.

One thing I'm very eager to find out more about is Galaxy's final match which follows the 2nd Moon fight; a fix? Galaxy's chin seemed nigh-on undentable, and he could slip blows as well as ship them. Does this fight detract from his final standing or H2H ability?

I have yet to see his fight with Vasquez, but a SD in Thailand seems vaguely dodgy. How good was this win and is it available?

Am I overrating Moon? How would you rate Khaokor H2H; does he have 'his level'? I.e are there any ATG's/Good H2H Bantams you would not fancy his chances against at all? Who is the best ATG you'd figure he could beat?

Maybe I am just high and over-hyping these fights?



All statements in Boldtype are things I would like people to comment on specifcally or at least take into consideration. 'Conversation pieces' if you will, as if these two fighters aren't enough. I am asking a lot with this I know, they're just two fights I am very interested in and I would like more information and others opinions.

If you've perservered with this :good :good :good

Alright flea, I've finally managed to watch both fights and was it worth it? YES!
Very impressed with Galaxy. I think the first fight he came into with a bit of a lazy approach and paid the consequences when it came down to the judges scorecards.
The second fight was altogether different. He upped his workrate from the beginning and this made all the difference. Everything behind that right jab but following through with left hands straight down the pipe. Moon is more of a swarming fighter but was coming off second best when he did get Galaxy to engage on the inside. I thought that Galaxy although not a dancing master showed great footwork continually turning from Galaxy's left and right and then on the inside turning him. He made Moon look a bit clumsy at times. Very economical with his footwork and great at moving in and out of range.
It wasn't all one sided as Moon just wouldn't give up and made Galaxy work all the way but he took a hell of lot of punishment on the way in. I'd rate Galaxy a solid puncher and he never missed a chance to get those body shots in. I reckon Moon must have been sore the next day.
I will have to look at Moon's later fights to see what he learn't from this one. What a warrior, he took a lot of punishment here and went on to have a great career (Champions credentials as far as I'm concerned) so it is possible that he was a bit too one dimensional, a little inexperienced in this fight, he'd still only had about 8 or 9 fights at this point in his career I think.
I saw it wide without putting pen to paper but Galaxy always looked in control.
I was very impressed with Galaxy, there were times in the middle rounds where he reminded me of a southpaw Robert Duran specially when he was following through with those left hands off the right jab.
Gonna be watching more of these two, want to see Galaxy against a good mover and with Moon I want to see the Konadu and Roman fights.

[Flea Man]

Al; good post, and very glad you enjoyed the fights :good

Wee Greg; My new dvd's have come through so I'll be pre-occupied with them. Can sort out all the other ones now and get you a list.

:good

[GPater11093]

righ watched the first fight of them too today

an alright fight but Galaxy was waiting far too long and had his best sucess when he let his hands go. Moon forced it throughout and seemed to land with the better shots more often.

Galaxy looked like he couldnt be arsed though. And that cut was atrocious.

anyway asnt a great fight or much with much stuff to discuss about it

[Mantequilla]

The galaxy brothers were always really methodical, especially Khaosai.Definitely an acquired taste, as far as if you will actually enjoy watching them or not.

[GPater11093]

i think there good to watch but i have saw them box better than that.

[Flea Man]

I like that reaction to the first fight, enhances the appreciation for the 2nd fight.

His win over Vasquez (a bizarre Split Decision in Khaokors hometown) is another very impressive performance.

I don't know who the best guy is that I think Khaokor could beat? I guarantee he'd beat the shit outta Rafael Marquez, but I'm nit sure how good an opponent he could beat. He'd certainly take part in some fascinating h2h battles, if anyone outside of about ten people on here are actually familiar with him :lol:

[GPater11093]

now i have seen a cant be arsed Kaoker and a fainting Kaoker in action the guys full of surprises.

Im looking forward to the 2nd fight.

[Flea Man]

I believe Khaokor to be better than Khaosai, whilst he lacked the stone hands of his Brother he had a wide range of punches, his form was excellent, had fairly fast hands and a good chin (him fainting is in no way indicative to the quality of his chin Greg :lol:) and he was a solid hitter if not a barbaric one like Khaosai.

If they met at 116.5lbs, I have no doubt Khaokor would beat his brother.

[Flea Man]

Greg, if you like the 2nd fight (a true thriller) then watch Galaxy vs Wilfredo Vasquez. He has a better resume than his brother also, and I think he retired after 21 fights.

[GPater11093]

Kaoker looks better IMO (at boxing not looks) like you say brillaint form but it does look like hes ready to kick someone, you think? that thai boxing background

would agree he is better but Khaosais punch is huge.

[GPater11093]

i will seek out the Vasquez figth also.

One thing i noticedwas Kaoker was very strong and when he did punch he really pushed back Moon which is a tough thing to do

[Mantequilla]

I agree.

always thought Khaokor was the tougher, more proven and well-rounded fighter of the two, though both do have similar styles.

[Flea Man]

Who's the best Bantam you could envision him beating Mantequilla? Don't think he'd win but he'd have had an awesome fight with Harada. Or that other 80's Bantam Jeff Chandler?

[Flea Man]

One thing I will say about Moon is that I never noticed a discernible shift in style as he moved on. Just seemed to pace himself a bit better and sit down more on certain shots. I've never seen any of his amateur footage and I personally think whilst Khaokor didn't fight a 'prime Moon' (obvious choice would be Moon of the Konadu fights at super-fly I believe) but Moon was just one of those tough guys that could whack who might a well be chucked in at the deep end: sink or swim? And he swam, through waves and typhoons and usually remained standing at the end.

[Mantequilla]

Not sure really.

He has two big issues with me when comparing him to other very good Bantams.1..he will be vulnerable to getting outworked by a lot of the more consistent boxer-punchers and aggressive fighters....2...he's methodical enough where mobile fighters and cuties are going to pose a lot of issues as well.


He could potentially match up well with Ortiz.Fighters who i might put money on him if he was fighting...maybe Pintor, Davila, Chandler, Murata, Castillo, Martinez, Herrera, Rudkin, Borkhorsor.That kind of fighter, those who aren't big movers and would be looking to score with combinations while in range.I wouldn't be surprised if he got outworked and outboxed by them though.

[Flea Man]

Bantam is STACKED :good when you look at the depth there, imagine the top five, many others that aren't there.....sickening really :lol:

Good response. Someone who's able to constantly be on the move and score OR have a consistent in and out approach are gonna cause him problems. Stay tight to him or stay in range too long and you're gonna get outworked, outmanouvered and pushed around.

Despite his proven chin I'd pick the Holy trinity of punchers (Zarate, Olivares, Jofre) to get him out of there, but I can't see anyone not having their hands full with him.

[Drew101]

Great thread...

About to be hijacked. Anybody know what the story was with another one of Khosai's opponents, Isreal Contreras? The guy scored some specatular wins (over Espinosa, a one round kayo of Vasquez, another first round victory over a tough, durable Jesus Flores), but suffered a couple of surprising defeats too (against Eddie Cook and Elvis Alvarez). Guy looked like a world beater against Espinosa, but suffered an equally decisive loss to Cook...Is it just a case of him having a really good power and a really bad chin, or was there something else to explain this type of inconsistancy?

[Flea Man]

I honestly don't know anything about him D.

[GPater11093]

Moon just came out throwing bombs. His best peak seemed to be about the 2nd Konadu fight

[Flea Man]

Agreed Greg :good

now watch Galaxy-Moon 2 and Galaxy-Vasquez :lol:

Just sitting down to watch Lacier-Roman:rasta

[GPater11093]

Moon vs Galaxy 2 is downloading

youll like taht fight 2 good fighters, cant remember what fight i sent you of them was it the first 2 fights. If so they are the best ones

[AlFrancis]

Moon vs Galaxy 2 is downloading

youll like taht fight 2 good fighters, cant remember what fight i sent you of them was it the first 2 fights. If so they are the best ones




Waiting for your analysis!

[Flea Man]

I believe so. I really like Roman from what I've seen.

The few tidbits I got from you and Mantequilla (I think! Sorry if wrong
or forgetting someone elses contribution) have been gestating in my mind and what with the fact he thought so often and was never stopes have acquired him an almost mythical status in my head. Looking forward to this :good

[Flea Man]

I take it YouTube still ain't working then, for Moon 2 and Vasquez are on there in their entirety :good

[Flea Man]

Waiting for your analysis!

Yours was quality Al.

How do you think Galaxy matches up with 'the best'? Who's the best fighter you'd pick him to beat?

[GPater11093]

Waiting for your analysis!

ok, should get it tommorow to wathc

I believe so. I really like Roman from what I've seen.

The few tidbits I got from you and Mantequilla (I think! Sorry if wrong
or forgetting someone elses contribution) have been gestating in my mind and what with the fact he thought so often and was never stopes have acquired him an almost mythical status in my head. Looking forward to this :good

Hes a good tough stylist, really like him

I take it YouTube still ain't working then, for Moon 2 and Vasquez are on there in their entirety :good

nah it plys 2 mins then freezes my computer

[AlFrancis]

Yours was quality Al.

How do you think Galaxy matches up with 'the best'? Who's the best fighter you'd pick him to beat?


Dunno, it's really hard to say. Great chin, good puncher, economical style. There isn't much to judge him by looking at his opponents, though the Vasquez fight was a good win. I really think Moon was made for him. Harada was similar to Moon but with more finesse. Harada's aggression would be more controlled. I think Moon was probably a bigger puncher than Harada and so Masahiko would settle down to boxing a bit more, picking his moments to score points and take a decision. Olivares might struggle a bit more depending on which version shows up. If he takes it to Galaxy he could be in for a shock. I do see him boxing as well, there is always the chance he might tag Khaokor and if he gets him in trouble it could be game over. I think Orlando Canizales could out work him. To beat him I think you've got to be able to mix your attack, box him. Prime Rose could probably pull it off. Castillo 50/50. He might beat Herrera, Martinez, Zamora and Lujan. Zarate to beat him but Pintor would be a war. Davila could give him problems, beautiful boxer that he was. Thinking about it maybe Lujan as well.
Anyway, just noticed the Davila Lujan fight is up, think I'll watch it.

[GPater11093]

right then after months of non stop hounding from Fleaman i have watched this fight (the rematch) :)

And can i thank Flea for telling me about it, it is one of the best displays i have ever seen and now one of my favrouite fights.

Early on i was impressed with Khaokers timing and movement. He got Moon to come forward landed his shots then stepped around to his right to open up a better angle and then was still in range to punch. Very impressive stuff.

His jab was very good keeping Moon off balance and setting up his other shots. Also his right hook was again very impressive especially to the body where he sometimes doubled it up to body then head. It was a fast hard punch that especially when he changed his angle. His straight left was particulary potent either after his right jab or hook it came straight down the middle in perfect time to catch Moon coming forward and this allowed Khaoker to step off at his angles as the long left kept Moon pinned down.

Later on in the fight Khaoker basically kept it up and started to throw more combinations. These combiations reminded me of Pnuematic Cylinders as he pumped them out fast, hard and with regular precision. These really did pin Moon down and when Khaoker l;anded his combination then changed angle and threw another combination i was blown away.

The later rounds were absouloute brillaint Moon just kept going and landed som heavy shots in the 10th but Khaoker came roaring back to nick the closest round of the fight (the 10th). The 11th was brilalint as Khaoker stepped his combos up and finally looked to be breaking down Moon forcing him to take a knee after some heavy Combinations rattled his way. Then another combo 30 seocnds later forced a standing 8 count but Khaoker couldnt finish him.

In the 12th Khaoker showed another dimension to his game working behind his jab and using excellant lateral movement to keep Moon at distance and go the full twelve. Nice fast movemnt to both sides behind a snappy jab.

Ovverall, an excellant display just 2 negatives seemed to lack the punch to keep Moon off him and only really got to Moon late afte beating him for 10 rounds prior to that. Although Moon is tough he hit him heaps. Also at times Galaxy was off balance as he moved to the sides and afew times ws caught off balance by the ever-trying Moon.

[Flea Man]

Al and Greg: :happy

[GPater11093]

why thanks Flea

any points you want to discuss about it

[Flea Man]

Well, one thing is that is backs up Moons chin. He took massive amounts of punishment before he finally went down. I see NO super-fly stoping him, certain Bantams (Jofre, Zarate, Olivares MIGHT do but Moon is relentless even when he has little hope whatsoever) With bigger punches may have him out for the count but whilst not as destructive a puncher as his Brother (opposition?) Khaokor is definitely a solid one.

Greg I'm just glad you watched it; although Moon is one dimensional (albet he is awesome at pressurising/punching) I hope you see now why I rate Khaokor so highly.

The Vasquez fight will reaffirm that; quality performance against a decent operator.

[GPater11093]

Moon has a solid chin he could be put down but always got back up and Galaxy looked like he had broke Moons heart but Moon got up and soldiered on very tough hombre. Like you say he is 1 dimensional but brillaint at it but Moon just used a tight angle to still catch Moon coming forward but be out of the way of him.

[Flea Man]

So, do you see why I have a fondness for Khaokor now? Who do you feel is the better fighter, Khaosai or Khaokor? Better still, who would win in a 116.5 lb catchweight showdown between the brothers?

[GPater11093]

yeh i see why you like him.

I think Khaoker si the better fighter but you could probably argue Khaosai was greater. I think Khaoker beats his bro

[Flea Man]

yeh i see why you like him.

I think Khaoker si the better fighter but you could probably argue Khaosai was greater. I think Khaoker beats his bro

Any ideas on where he ranks head to head? Who's the best guy you could see him beating? Watch the Vasqueza fight as well, another astounding performance:good

[GPater11093]

not sure Flea will have to think it over more.

ill try get that Vasquez fight