fedors legacy will not be complete until he fights in the ufc

[rusty nails]

As good as he is his record is full of B grade fighters and ufc rejects.

I realise this will offend some.

[boxingcar]

Not necessarily.... Let's say Lesnar gets beaten in his next fight...by anybody. Lesnar's fans will either call it a fluke or they'll stop saying that fedor is avoiding competition.

Even better , if Lesnar loses against Crocop (not likely but just for argument's sake)...Then nobody will even be pissed about the fact that emelianenko isn't fighting in ufc's hw division.

So far , he's been able to bypass all of this by fighting ex-ufc champions (Arlovski and Sylvia)

But since Arlovski later lost in a matter of seconds against Brett Rogers & Sylvia was koed in no time by Mercer... These victories have been tarnished in a way.

Which brings me to Anderson Silva (slightly changing the subject here)

I find it rather ironic that Anderson's latest victory over Forest Griffin triggered sherdog's staff to rank him as P4P # 1

Here's why...

1 - anderson cuts to MW...(so even though he beat a LHW , he was just fighting in his natural weight category).

2 - Griffin was defeated by Rashad Evans 8 months earlier.

In other words , giving all the praise in the world and ranking anderson # 1 is the equivalent of doing the same with Brett Rogers because he defeated Arlovski in a few seconds.

Chronologically speaking , it's ridiculous imo.

(not to mention the very concept of P4P is incredibly flawed and absurd & it in no way reliable , but again , that's another entire different issue).

--------------------------

On the other hand....If Fedor loses his next fight in strikeforce , Dana white , the entire ufc staff including a huge portion of mma fans will be happy to spit on fedor's resume and mock his entire career.

What Fedor and Finkelstein are doing is a VERY risky career move. Right now , fedor is the king of the hill but everything could end in an instant. It wouldn't be the same if he'd be part of ufc's stable of fighters but he isn't.

[boxingcar]

As good as he is his record is full of B grade fighters and ufc rejects.

I realise this will offend some.

Btw fedor defeated what you call "ufc rejects" and b grade fighters...when it mattered.

At the time he defeated them...it was relevant and important.

I don't see you bitching about Lesnar annihilating Herring.... when Fedor did the same (only better , since herring was so badly hurt he had to quit the fight) , a few years earlier....when herring was still at his best.

Fedor defeated Nogueira & Crocop when it mattered.
Even Semmy Schilt (when it mattered because it was part of a GP and fedor was the underdog too).

Lesnar for ex , hasn't done it so far. His best victory was against Mir...
a guy who not only already defeated him. But who also lost against Brandon Vera not so long ago.

We could maybe also count his victory over Couture but here again , Couture is 45 (i think)...and yet , he was doing pretty good against the much bigger , younger , more powerful...Lesnar. Couture was at times , outwrestling him before the TKO... Lesnar was obviously gassed.

Fedor also defeated Coleman and Randleman when it mattered...(especially randleman , as inconsistent as he is...he defeated him in 2004...in other words back when Kevin pulled one of the biggest upset in mma history)...not only that , it was during another GP.

It's a bit like couture's victory over Gonzaga...People had doubts , Gonzaga was the new "it" fighter of the hw division at the time..

people used to say Gonzaga > Fedor etc...it was ridiculous. Then Werdum defeated him (again)


Fans in general , tend to have a pretty short memory..or a selective one.

[rusty nails]

Not necessarily.... Let's say Lesnar gets beaten in his next fight...by anybody. Lesnar's fans will either call it a fluke or they'll stop saying that fedor is avoiding competition.

Even better , if Lesnar loses against Crocop (not likely but just for argument's sake)...Then nobody will even be pissed about the fact that emelianenko isn't fighting in ufc's hw division.

So far , he's been able to bypass all of this by fighting ex-ufc champions (Arlovski and Sylvia)

But since Arlovski later lost in a matter of seconds against Brett Rogers & Sylvia was koed in no time by Mercer... These victories have been tarnished in a way.

Which brings me to Anderson Silva (slightly changing the subject here)

I find it rather ironic that Anderson's latest victory over Forest Griffin triggered sherdog's staff to rank him as P4P # 1

Here's why...

1 - anderson cuts to MW...(so even though he beat a LHW , he was just fighting in his natural weight category).

2 - Griffin was defeated by Rashad Evans 8 months earlier.

In other words , giving all the praise in the world and ranking anderson # 1 is the equivalent of doing the same with Brett Rogers because he defeated Arlovski in a few seconds.

Chronologically speaking , it's ridiculous imo.

(not to mention the very concept of P4P is incredibly flawed and absurd & it in no way reliable , but again , that's another entire different issue).

--------------------------

On the other hand....If Fedor loses his next fight in strikeforce , Dana white , the entire ufc staff including a huge portion of mma fans will be happy to spit on fedor's resume and mock his entire career.

What Fedor and Finkelstein are doing is a VERY risky career move. Right now , fedor is the king of the hill but everything could end in an instant. It wouldn't be the same if he'd be part of ufc's stable of fighters but he isn't.

I agree with virtually all of this.. and its the reason i have lyoto machida ranked at 1 p4p

[boxingcar]

Another small detail.....
We could say that sylvia is a ufc reject but it still doesn't changes the fact that he was a champion in their organisation.

And also...

Unlike Sylvia , no one can label Arlovski as a reject and here's why.
According to his record:
He won 3 fights in a row inside the octagon
(against Cruz , Werdum & O'brien )
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Then he simply left the ufc (maybe because he was asking for more money ? who knows...) and fought rothwell in affliction

And here again , fedor defeated arlovski when it also mattered...
(arlovski had a 5 winning streak before losing against Fedor)

[scurlaruntings]

As good as he is his record is full of B grade fighters and ufc rejects.

I realise this will offend some.:roll:

[rusty nails]

Btw fedor defeated what you call "ufc rejects" and b grade fighters...when it mattered.

At the time he defeated them...it was relevant and important.

I don't see you bitching about Lesnar annihilating Herring.... when Fedor did the same (only better , since herring was so badly hurt he had to quit the fight) , a few years earlier....when herring was still at his best.

Fedor defeated Nogueira & Crocop when it mattered.
Even Semmy Schilt (when it mattered because it was part of a GP and fedor was the underdog too).

Lesnar for ex , hasn't done it so far. His best victory was against Mir...
a guy who not only already defeated him. But who also lost against Brandon Vera not so long ago.

We could maybe also count his victory over Couture but here again , Couture is 45 (i think)...and yet , he was doing pretty good against the much bigger , younger , more powerful...Lesnar. Couture was at times , outwrestling him before the TKO... Lesnar was obviously gassed.

Fedor also defeated Coleman and Randleman when it mattered...(especially randleman , as inconsistent as he is...he defeated him in 2004...in other words back when Kevin pulled one of the biggest upset in mma history)...not only that , it was during another GP.

It's a bit like couture's victory over Gonzaga...People had doubts , Gonzaga was the new "it" fighter of the hw division at the time..

people used to say Gonzaga > Fedor etc...it was ridiculous. Then Werdum defeated him (again)


Fans in general , tend to have a pretty short memory..or a selective one.


you dont see me bitching period boxingcar..

The tone of your response suggests im against the man. thats not true.
i admire fedor immensely and i WANT to see him do well.. but the fact is every pride star thats entered the ufc has been demolished and its unfair to suggest he would be any different until he steps onto the biggest stage there is and proves otherwise..
Its unfair that fans should have to speculate. lets see it!

[scurlaruntings]

you dont see me bitching period boxingcar..

The tone of your response suggests im against the man. thats not true.
i admire fedor immensely and i WANT to see him do well.. but the fact is every pride star thats entered the ufc has been demolished and its unfair to suggest he would be any different until he steps onto the biggest stage there is and proves otherwise..
Its unfair that fans should have to speculate. lets see it!You mean like Rampage? or Silva? And who are these major challenges in the UFC? Carwin? Cain? 4-1 Lesnar? :roll:

[rusty nails]

You mean like Rampage? or Silva? And who are these major challenges in the UFC? Carwin? Cain? 4-1 Lesnar? :roll:


i dont care who he fights.. hell most likely hammer them anyway.
but until he holds that belt there will be a big gaping hole in his career

[MaliSlamusrex]

I don't understand this at all, it's like saying if you don't have an advert with Coke or Pepsi your not a real pop star.

i dont care who he fights.. hell most likely hammer them anyway.
but until he holds that belt there will be a big gaping hole in his career

[scurlaruntings]

i dont care who he fights.. hell most likely hammer them anyway.
but until he holds that belt there will be a big gaping hole in his careerOk pookie. Did you know the moon is made of cheese? I like cheese. Cheese is yummy!

[boxingcar]

but the fact is every pride star thats entered the ufc has been demolished and its unfair to suggest he would be any different until he steps onto the biggest stage there is and proves otherwise..

Anderson Silva (ex pride fc fighter). FAILED to grab the belt over there. And happens to be today's UFC champion.

Quentin Jackson (ex pride fc fighter) FAILED to grab the LHW belt , and became UFC champ.

Josh Barnett ( ex UFC champion ) FAILED to grab the grand prix belt

Nogueira ex pride fc champ & UFC interim heavyweight champion.

Liddell , FAILED when he entered Pride's final conflict 2003 then 2 years later became UFC champ

THE ONLY EX-UFC fighter who ever had both titles (pride fc belt) was Mark Coleman. in 2000 , Coleman won pride's openweight GP. (and won ufc's first ever hw title)

It all boils down to Gonzaga vs Crocop.... NOBODY was expecting it to happen. and that's when everybody was questioning pride's talent pool.

But of course it's absolute garbage because mma ogranisations DO NOT train the fucking fighters. Dream entertainement wasn't training fedor...Zuffa isn't training Anderson.

Would Gonzaga own Fedor ? Who knows...Maybe ...maybe not.
What i do know , is that after all the hysteria and mega hype this guy had...WERDUM (ex pride fc fighter ) , had a rematch with him , and defeated him twice.

Herring...defeated Kongo.

Shogun had a very disappointing debut , i'll give you that (against Griffin )
But here again , it doesn't erases the past , he defeated Jackson , Arona , Overeem , Rogerio.

Shogun also looked like utter shit against Mark the fossil Coleman. WHY ? Who the fuck knows...Maybe roids are missing ?

Granted Werdum was defeated by Arlovski , then Fedor also defeated Arlovski so case closed.

Sokoudjou had a disappointing UFC run..true
But at least he lost against Machida (who later became champion)

It wasn't the case with Chuck , because back in 2003 & 2005 the guys who were owning the LHW division were Wanderlei & Shogun. Not Jackson. (even though he was a top fighter & a contender)

Sokoudjou also lost against Cane and Sobral (but that was in affliction) , Sobral recently got owned by an M1 fighter (Mousasi). Before Pride fc , Soko lost at WEC against Teixeira.

Orgs don't train fighters. So...
but the fact is every pride star thats entered the ufc has been demolished ..

NO...just no. When you look at "who beats who"...You quickly realise that not only are most of them contenders but also happen to be champions or ex champions. (jackson).

Next contender ? Henderson !...

If you just concentrate on the losses , and ignore the rest...you're obviously gonna say "fedor's legacy will not be complete until...."

It doesn't matter if the fight takes place in the ufc or on mars...
The only interesting fights for him over there are against Lesnar & maybe Dos Santos & Shane Carwin...

Thing is , if Couture beats Nogueira (which imo he probably will becaue Nog is shot...looked bad against Herring and almost got koed in the process , was surviving against Sylvia & got defeated by mir )...I bet everyone will soon say Couture > Fedor.

(even though , Couture already lost against Barnett in his prime , and Barnett lost against Nogueira).

Mmath doesn't work and never will. and Org vs Org fighter is also meaningless.

It's funny how all the ex-pride fc fighters are now considered as ufc fighters , but all ex pride fc fighters who lose their fights outside pride are still considered pride fc fighters by ufc fans

You don't see that shit with Jackson...You do see it with Crocop...don't see it with Machida (hey afterall , he fought 3 times in K1 didn't he ? )...I bet if he never had the career he's enjoying today , you'd have idiots say "he should go back to japan where the competition is easier"...Kinda like Leben did before getting raped by Anderson.

In the end , all of this is irrelevant..just enjoy the fucking fights , you never know what could happen...maybe fedor will lose in strikeforce anyway...or maybe Lesnar will get koed by someone nobody is expecting.

[rusty nails]

Anderson Silva (ex pride fc fighter). FAILED to grab the belt over there. And happens to be today's UFC champion.

Quentin Jackson (ex pride fc fighter) FAILED to grab the LHW belt , and became UFC champ.

Josh Barnett ( ex UFC champion ) FAILED to grab the grand prix belt

Nogueira ex pride fc champ & UFC interim heavyweight champion.

Liddell , FAILED when he entered Pride's final conflict 2003 then 2 years later became UFC champ

THE ONLY EX-UFC fighter who ever had both titles (pride fc belt) was Mark Coleman. in 2000 , Coleman won pride's openweight GP. (and won ufc's first ever hw title)

It all boils down to Gonzaga vs Crocop.... NOBODY was expecting it to happen. and that's when everybody was questioning pride's talent pool.

But of course it's absolute garbage because mma ogranisations DO NOT train the fucking fighters. Dream entertainement wasn't training fedor...Zuffa isn't training Anderson.

Would Gonzaga own Fedor ? Who knows...Maybe ...maybe not.
What i do know , is that after all the hysteria and mega hype this guy had...WERDUM (ex pride fc fighter ) , had a rematch with him , and defeated him twice.

Herring...defeated Kongo.

Shogun had a very disappointing debut , i'll give you that (against Griffin )
But here again , it doesn't erases the past , he defeated Jackson , Arona , Overeem , Rogerio.

Shogun also looked like utter shit against Mark the fossil Coleman. WHY ? Who the fuck knows...Maybe roids are missing ?

Granted Werdum was defeated by Arlovski , then Fedor also defeated Arlovski so case closed.

Sokoudjou had a disappointing UFC run..true
But at least he lost against Machida (who later became champion)

It wasn't the case with Chuck , because back in 2003 & 2005 the guys who were owning the LHW division were Wanderlei & Shogun. Not Jackson. (even though he was a top fighter & a contender)

Sokoudjou also lost against Cane and Sobral (but that was in affliction) , Sobral recently got owned by an M1 fighter (Mousasi). Before Pride fc , Soko lost at WEC against Teixeira.

Orgs don't train fighters. So...


NO...just no. When you look at "who beats who"...You quickly realise that not only are most of them contenders but also happen to be champions or ex champions. (jackson).

Next contender ? Henderson !...

If you just concentrate on the losses , and ignore the rest...you're obviously gonna say "fedor's legacy will not be complete until...."

It doesn't matter if the fight takes place in the ufc or on mars...
The only interesting fights for him over there are against Lesnar & maybe Dos Santos & Shane Carwin...

Thing is , if Couture beats Nogueira (which imo he probably will becaue Nog is shot...looked bad against Herring and almost got koed in the process , was surviving against Sylvia & got defeated by mir )...I bet everyone will soon say Couture > Fedor.

(even though , Couture already lost against Barnett in his prime , and Barnett lost against Nogueira).

Mmath doesn't work and never will. and Org vs Org fighter is also meaningless.

It's funny how all the ex-pride fc fighters are now considered as ufc fighters , but all ex pride fc fighters who lose their fights outside pride are still considered pride fc fighters by ufc fans

You don't see that shit with Jackson...You do see it with Crocop...don't see it with Machida (hey afterall , he fought 3 times in K1 didn't he ? )...I bet if he never had the career he's enjoying today , you'd have idiots say "he should go back to japan where the competition is easier"...Kinda like Leben did before getting raped by Anderson.

In the end , all of this is irrelevant..just enjoy the fucking fights , you never know what could happen...maybe fedor will lose in strikeforce anyway...or maybe Lesnar will get koed by someone nobody is expecting.

:patsch


this isnt a pride versus ufc thing..

i dont give a shit about that stuff

im just using it as a reference point
i could go on and articulate how MOST of the pride guys have lost in the ufc and blah blah blah but its all irrelevant..
im just saying the ufc is the worlds biggest stage in terms of mma..
If fedor doesnt conquer that kingdom he wont have achieved his rightful place, undisputed at the top of the mountain. Its something his critics will point to 200 years from now and say "yeah he was good but he never won the ufc title".
I DONT WANT THAT TO HAPPEN

[thejokerswild]

most of you mma fans have no integrity...

[Dave_j1985]

He won the Pride heavy-weight title which was probably a much tougher task when you consider the fighters in each organization at the time. It's no secret the best heavy-weights during Fedor's reign as Pride champ were fighting in Japan.

Is he avoiding the tougher fights? Maybe. Does this change all his acclompished in his past? NO. As far as p4p goes it is simply opinion, in my opinion he hasn't done enough lately to be considered best p4p fighter. BUT, I would easily still have him ranked 1# heavy-weight.

There's my 2c

[Kestrel]

He won the Pride heavy-weight title which was probably a much tougher task when you consider the fighters in each organization at the time. It's no secret the best heavy-weights during Fedor's reign as Pride champ were fighting in Japan.

Is he avoiding the tougher fights? Maybe. Does this change all his acclompished in his past? NO. As far as p4p goes it is simply opinion, in my opinion he hasn't done enough lately to be considered best p4p fighter. BUT, I would easily still have him ranked 1# heavy-weight.

There's my 2c

nice avatar, so what are we talking about? :D

[BewareofDawg]

Fedor doesn't give a shit.

[Polymath]

Without a win against Cain Valazquez, Fedor is nothing.

[Rangersfan1982]

Absolute nonsense. Fedor has beaten better fighters that are in the UFC HW division.

[iksrtfo]

Fighting in the UFC will only make him the greatest to the mainstream. Most people who are not much more than a casual fan do no know who fedor even is.

Like Mike tyson, in 1989 or so even if you never saw a boxing match, you KNEW who Mike Tyson was.

The only way Fedor can reach that type of legacy if by fighting in the UFC, the biggest org there is with the biggest fan base.

Yes he is the greatest, but how many people even know that?

[Rico Spadafora]

As good as he is his record is full of B grade fighters and ufc rejects.

I realise this will offend some.


:lol::rofl:patsch

He has beat 5 former UFC Heavyweight Champions.

It is not Fedor's job to go and fight anywhere he is the established fighter and #1 Heavyweight and mythical #1 P4P fighter in the World.

It is Lesnar and the rest of Dana White's slaves job to grow some balls tell White to fuck off and go make the fight happen in another organization.

[300press]

Rusty, how are we supposed to take you seriously? You have a fucking Vin Diesel avatar from one of the gayest movies of alltime.:patsch

Fedor has fought and dominated in Rings, Sambo games, Bodog, Affliction and oh what was the one company i forget.......oh yeah, PRIDE FC you dumbass!!

If Lesnar wants any respect he needs to go after Fedor, Fedor has nothing to prove. Lesnar has 4 wins against guys that Fedor would take out in a mintue tops.

Why would he fight for Dana White when he hates the guys gut. Not to hard to understand.:patsch

[wentz]

Stupid point. There is no "in the ufc."

Besides, the ufc is quickly becoming irrelevant. These adult-children that run that event are being taken less seriously daily.

[Kestrel]

Rusty, how are we supposed to take you seriously? You have a fucking Vin Diesel avatar from one of the gayest movies of alltime.:patsch




hahha :rofl You won the argument, End of Thread. :lol:

[codeman99998]

:lol::rofl:patsch

He has beat 5 former UFC Heavyweight Champions.

It is not Fedor's job to go and fight anywhere he is the established fighter and #1 Heavyweight and mythical #1 P4P fighter in the World.

It is Lesnar and the rest of Dana White's slaves job to grow some balls tell White to fuck off and go make the fight happen in another organization.

Why do you keep saying "mythical" #1? That's the second time I've noticed it. What does that even mean?

Is he better than Achilles?

[Dave_j1985]

Stupid point. There is no "in the ufc."

Besides, the ufc is quickly becoming irrelevant. These adult-children that run that event are being taken less seriously daily.

:patsch

[achillesthegreat]

Hindsight is an absolute bitch in fighting. When Fedor blasted Sylvia and Arlovski etc, it meant something.

[curmudgeon]

Since when fighter is defined by a promotion?

Fuck UFC.

If Lesnar or anybody else has any claim as to be better - they should haul their asses to Strikeforce to fight him. Otherwise they are just hiding from Fedor behind a contract.

[thejokerswild]

Since when fighter is defined by a promotion?

Fuck UFC.

If Lesnar or anybody else has any claim as to be better - they should haul their asses to Strikeforce to fight him. Otherwise they are just hiding from Fedor behind a contract.
This is a man with common sense.

[300press]

curmudgeon I totally agree...

Remember when Dana White took Liddell to Pride FC for the middleweight Grand Prix? Why can't he send Lesnar to Strikeforce? Because he knows Lesnar will lose, and he wants to hold down Fedor with a long term contract so he stays with UFC. So UFC looks like a juggernaut.:good

[scurlaruntings]

curmudgeon I totally agree...

Remember when Dana White took Liddell to Pride FC for the middleweight Grand Prix? Why can't he send Lesnar to Strikeforce? Because he knows Lesnar will lose, and he wants to hold down Fedor with a long term contract so he stays with UFC. So UFC looks like a juggernaut.:good
He took him there because he thought Liddell would have a walk in the park. He got shook vs Overeem and he got "proper" fucked vs Rampage. Iv been saying for ages Fedor doesnt need to come to the UFC to prove fuck all and a bunch of frat boys tried to laugh me off the board. If Lesnar wants it so bad fight Fedor when he's contract expires. Either way a guy who boasts a record of 4-1 is pretty shambolic. UFC fans have selective memories that are extremely short. When Fedor was kicking ass in PRIDE Lesnar was still in the OVW. :D

[300press]

scurlaruntings ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) my man!:good

[ufoalf]

Lesnar is already in the #1 organization with the most top rated heavyweights. Why would he take a paycut and ruin his career by pursuing one fighter outside of the UFC when there is nobody else to fight after Fedor?

Why Fedor has to give up his priorities to fight someone inferior? At least Brock has an incentive to give up his priority. Whis is to fight #1 HW in Fedor.

[scurlaruntings]

Brock's 4-1 record is about the most impressive 4-1 record in MMA history. He has already defeated one of the top BJJ guys in the biz (Mir), a legend in Couture, and a tough as nails gatekeeper in Herring who has basically fought everybody. Lesnar's one loss comes by way of his very first UFC fight where he dominated one of the worlds top rated heavyweights until the last 8 seconds.

As to Fedor. I don't know why people are trying to defend his honour because he chose to go to a second rate organization. Defend him for what? Warm fuzzy feelings? Do any of you really want to see Fedor wasting away the remaining years of his prime fighting the likes of Werdum, Rogers and Overeem when he could having fights with guys Like Lesnar, Couture, Machida, Silva, Mir, Nog, CroCop, Dos Santos, Gonzaga, Carwin, Velesquez, and Kongo.

The people who get screwed the most by Fedor's decision are the fans. Is that really something to celebrate?:lol::lol::lol::lol: You UFC fans are awesome. Im guessing you started watching MMA yesterday right? I mean Mir Couture Carwin Cain thems some real killers there. :lol:

[ufoalf]

Asking Brock to leave his contract with the UFC to fight Fedor would be akin to asking the New England Patriots to leave the NFL to play some European team because people are saying they are the best. Ridiculous.

Asking Fedor to bend over giving up his desires to join UFC to fight a 4-1 guy who is greener than grass would be asking American basketball team to represent China in the Olympics because it would make them more money and more popular. Ridiculous.

:good

[scurlaruntings]

Carwin and Cain are among the worst of the plethora of heavies I listed from the UFC and yet both are more legitimate heavyweights at this point than either Werdum (cut from the UFC) or Rogers (no wrestling background whatsoever), and Mir and Couture are ranked higher than Overeem. Strikeforce is a joke. Let's call a spade a spade. They don't have 1/100th the roster that the UFC has and if you can say anything to prove otherwise please do. I need a good laugh. There's a reason why there are so many UFC fans - because the alternatives stink. Keep using the laughing emoticons all you like but they don't mask the insecurity of your post.:lol::lol: I was right you're a new fan. Werdum is a two-time Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu world champion, 2007 ADCC world heavyweight champion and European Jiu-Jitsu champion. He has a Black Belt in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and a Brown Belt in Judo. He's also a veteran of PRIDE and has some of the finest grappling credentials in the sport:

ADCC 2005 99 kg+: 3rd place
ADCC 2003 Absolute: 3rd place 99 kg+: 2nd place
Record of opponents:
Won: Dennis Roberts (pts), Daniel Gracie (pts), Andy Reese (pts), Tsuyoshi Kosaka (pts), Jehad A Hamdan (pts), Mike Van Arsdale (pts), Matt Lindland (armbar), Akira Shoji (pts), Marcio 'Pe De Pano' Cruz (pts), Elvis Sinosic (sub), Karol Bedorf (sub), Darren Andy (sub), Rolles Gracie (4-0, two takedowns), Mario Rinaldi (sub),
Lost: Marcio Corletta (pts)?, Jeff Monson (pts), Roger Gracie (sub), Marcio 'Pe De Pano' Cruz (pts), Alexandre Ferreira 'Cacareco' (pts), André Galvão (pts)
CBJJ World Championships
2004 Black Belt Pesadissimo: 1st Place
2003 Black Belt Super-Pesado: 1st Place Black Belt Absolute: =3rd Place
2002 Brown Belt Super-Pesado: 3rd Place
2001 Purple Belt Absolute: 2nd Place
2000 Blue Belt Super-Pesado: 1st Place Blue Belt Absolute: 1st Place
CBJJ Pan American Championships
2003 Black Belt Super Super Heavy: =3rd Place Black Belt Absolute: 2nd Place
2002 Brown Belt Super-Pesado: 1st Place
2001 Purple Belt Super-Pesado: 1st Place Purple Belt Absolute: 1st Place
CBJJO BJJ World Cup
2004 Black Belt Pesadissimo: 2nd Place Black Belt Absolute: =3rd Place
2003 Black Belt Belt Pesadissimo: 2nd Place


Now Brett Rogers just KO'ed AA. The UFC's former heavyweight champ. Who's Cain's biggest opponent to date? A life and death war with Gonzaga?



And how about Overeem. K1 and PRIDE veteran. He has wins over studs like Kharitonov Belfort and Igor Vonchancyn. Im pretty sure you've never heard of any of them seeing as you only started watching MMA yesterday and as is usual for most frat boys glibly towe the company line. Overeem one of MMA's best strikers has had more fights than goons like Carwin and Cain combined but he's a nobody right because he's not in the UFC.



Seriously find another sport to watch. Typical frat fanboy.

[scurlaruntings]

The 4-1 guy you're talking about is ranked number 2 in the world by every ranking worth a damn and a bigger threat to Fedor than any other heavyweight on the planet. Fedor making far more money in the UFC than he is in Strikeforce and getting the chance to face the best in the world is hardly him bending over. He's bending over for M1 because he's more concerned about his business endeavor which will inevitaby fail than he is concerned with his career. Sad.No whats sad here is the fact you dont even know who Fedor is. Tell you what why dont you dissect his career for us. Tell us how a few of his fights went in PRIDE or Rings. You know educate us with you're stunning objectiveness and really explain to us how his career is going down the toilet because he signed for a BETTER deal financially than the UFC could offer him.

[ufoalf]

Add to Overeems list is decimation of Crocop in kickboxing. Which is NOT easy to do.

[brandon9624]

Let's face it, as good as Werdum is, Fedor is going to BLUDGEON him. This will also be an interesting matchup since Werdum subbed Aleksander.
I think with the acquisition of Mousasi, and his destruction of Babalu for the belt, and signing Fedor, Strikeforce is starting to look more like a rival to UFC than an inferior product, and could possibly start to lure away some UFC talent who are looking to fight the best.

[scurlaruntings]

Add to Overeems list is decimation of Crocop in kickboxing. Which is NOT easy to do.O that means nothing because homeboy only watches the UFC. K1? What on earth is that.

[scurlaruntings]

But also the same Fedor who lost his most recent Sambo tournament, and was getting tooled Andre Arlovski until his one punch knockout.
That mon fere pretty much sums up you're post. Theres no need for a further discussion as you're repeating by wrote the same shite you've read on Sherdog. If you were an objective fan your fanboy attitude wouldnt be so apparent. But unfortunately that along with your feeble capacity for one up man ship as well as your clear lack of knowledge on any of Fedor's fights or his Sambo credentials other than the dregs you've dragged up from internet boards pretty much makes you and your opinion wholly insignificant and throughly worthless. Im fairly sure Fedor feels the exact same way.

[AJAX]

Your the last person that should be talking about an objective fan. If anybody on here doesn't hate the UFC they are automatically fan boys and don't know anything about MMA. Your posts are 100% anti UFC so what do you know about being objective?

[AJAX]

I watched the Fedor who got slammed on his head by Randleman and got up as if it was nothing - the fedor who got rocked by Fujita and did a fish dance but came back to destroy him. The Fedor that beat CroCop at his own game, and the Fedor who nearly killed Nogueira not once but twice.

But also the same Fedor who lost his most recent Sambo tournament, and was getting tooled Andre Arlovski until his one punch knockout. The same Fedor who is slowing down, and the same Fedor who I would prefer not spend his remaining years at the top fighting cans and UFC rejects.

Now, that you've been embarassed and proven entirely wrong about me not knowing about anything Fedor, I would love to see you produce real evidence that Fedor signed to a better deal with Strikeforce than the UFC could offer him because I know you can't :good

He won't he'll just call you names and put lots of these :lol::lol::lol: in his posts.

[AJAX]

So you mean you can't actually produce any real evidence that Fedor got offered a better deal at Strikeforce like you said or are you just going to keep on avoiding it by backpedaling and highlighting portions of my posts that you disagree with ? :hi:

He's almost like a lawer....tap dances around some questions while choosing ones to answer that he can have a response to.

[AJAX]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

It's clear from the offer that since M1 Global couldn't rape the ufc like Affliction and bodog they wern't interested. they want 50% of profits on top of Fedors salary but yet don't take any of the loses .

[scurlaruntings]

The same Crocop who lost to Kongo and Gonzaga two of the UFC's lesser heavyweights? The same Crocop who just came crawling back to the UFC?

You're one of those guys who gets a sense of internet satfisfaction that he can tell everybody that he's some kind of hardcore fan because he follows organizations outside of the 'mainsteam UFC'. Because you're not hardcore if you don't worship Fedor and second rate MMA organizations like Strikeforce or Dream even though they have crap rosters and put on crap shows.

Who cares if UFC has by far the best fighters, the best fights and the most events? ... it's mainsteam! If you like something that almost everybody else likes because it's clearly the best that means you're mainstream... you're not unique or internet cool, and that means you're not hardcore... you know like you. So hardcore.

:lol:Now that you two have finished making love its safe to say we can ignore this load of convoluted tripe. Im not interested in reading your subjective drivel. When you make a point that has some merit get back to me.

[scurlaruntings]

He's almost like a lawer....tap dances around some questions while choosing ones to answer that he can have a response to.:roll: Boring. Still towing the company line aye? Now trot off and go make Dana a drink your boring me.

[ufoalf]

So you mean you can't actually produce any real evidence that Fedor got offered a better deal at Strikeforce like you said or are you just going to keep on avoiding it by backpedaling and highlighting portions of my posts that you disagree with ? :hi:

M-1 got a better deal in co-promotion and Fedor fights for M-1 :hi:

[McAllister]

That statement is wrong. Fedor no matter what, is he best Fighter to ever walk the earth. The "B Level" fighers he have beaten include

Big Nog 2 times!(2nd best HW of all time)
Cro- Cop ( one of the most dangerous strikers of his time)
Randlemann (had to overcome the vicious slam)
Former Ufc Champs Fedor has stopped
Randleman,Arlovski,Nog,Sylvia,

The list goes on

[scurlaruntings]

That statement is wrong. Fedor no matter what, is he best Fighter to ever walk the earth. The "B Level" fighers he have beaten include

Big Nog 2 times!(2nd best HW of all time)
Cro- Cop ( one of the most dangerous strikers of his time)
Randlemann (had to overcome the vicious slam)
Former Ufc Champs Fedor has stopped
Randleman,Arlovski,Nog,Sylvia,

The list goes onTheres no need to explain that. He was getting tooled by AA didnt you notice? Plus he lost a Sambo tournament. His first in 8 years considering his sheer dominance but that means he's shit now.

[AJAX]

M-1 got a better deal in co-promotion and Fedor fights for M-1 :hi:

And by doing this Fedor will not lose no matter what with the deal. Finkel is an asshole but he's not stupid, with M1 co-promoting and not taking any loses should there be any it's a full proof deal. However Finkel might ass rape strikeforce with the conditions of the deal. I hope strikeforce doesn't end up like Bodog and Affliction.

[Mob]

To the KNOWLEDGEABLE MMA fans....Fedor is cemented now.

To gain the acclaim he deserves from the ordinary mainstream fans....the UFC will make or break his legacy.

[196osh]

l
Are any of you going to argue that Fedor does not have substantially better competition in the UFC?





Lesnar is better than anybody outside the UFC.

Overeem, Werdum and Rogers are just as good as the other UFC heavyweights

Substantially my ass!

[thejokerswild]

I watched the Fedor who got slammed on his head by Randleman and got up as if it was nothing - the fedor who got rocked by Fujita and did a fish dance but came back to destroy him. The Fedor that beat CroCop at his own game, and the Fedor who nearly killed Nogueira not once but twice.

But also the same Fedor who lost his most recent Sambo tournament, and was getting tooled Andre Arlovski until his one punch knockout. The same Fedor who is slowing down, and the same Fedor who I would prefer not spend his remaining years at the top fighting cans and UFC rejects.

Now, that you've been embarassed and proven entirely wrong about me not knowing about anything Fedor, I would love to see you produce real evidence that Fedor signed to a better deal with Strikeforce than the UFC could offer him because I know you can't :good

Wow fedor lost in Sambo. Someone better start arranging his pension coz he's over the hill!

I can honestly say thats about all you can use to back up any argument contesting his ability to produce wins against anyone. Unfortunately It's like using a 9mm to blow up a building.

What else do you have to reason? Oh yeah the AA fight....:patsch silly me

Prior to his 3 and half minute KO of a well respected ex world champion, his hand speed was appearing to be outmatched by a younger better trained fighter. It's hilarious when people even mention this, it's like they know the rest of the fight that didn't happen.

Many of you UFC loyalists(wether you know you are or not) are crazy in department of rationalism, you doubt his credibility and legacy because he won't take on a 4-1 fighter? it's like 'what have you done for me lately' you sound like a bunch of whiney women.

It's true when they say politics is a strife of interests masquerading as a contest of principles.

[Mob]

Lesnar is better than anybody outside the UFC.

Overeem, Werdum and Rogers are just as good as the other UFC heavyweights

Substantially my ass!


Exactly right.

[LHL]

That spider guy has to be an alias

[196osh]

There are between five to seven UFC heavyweights in the top 10 depending on which rankings you look at (not even counting the non heavyweights like Machida and Silva who could both fight Fedor in the UFC as well) and only between one or two in Strikeforce.

That alone pretty much renders your post useless. Try again.

:blood

Fedor has already beaten, Nog and Coture are old as sin and Fedor has already beat the hell out of prime Nog x 2.

In what way is Carwin a danger to Fedor, more so than Overeem?

Mir who's only acomplishments recently are getting the fuck beaten out of him by Lesnar and beating an old ass Nog, does he present a threat to Fedor more than, Rogers?

Then add Barnett and Arlovski and there is your top 10.

Relics and green fighters vs Fedor will not end well.

[196osh]

Mir

Couture

Nog

Crocop

Kongo

Gonzaga


These vs Fedor would be a massacre, who are you trying to kid?

[thejokerswild]

Also are any of you actually disagreeing that the UFC is a superior organization to Strikeforce?

No that would be crazy.

Are any of you going to argue that Fedor does not have substantially better competition in the UFC?
I would argue the substantial part but there is better competition in the UFC. It's not enough to break your principles over though. Especially considering he's already a well proven legand.You 4-1 hero isn't worth what you think he is in the real world.

Are you guys MMA fans who want to see Fedor fight the best level of competition, or are you stock holders in M1?
I hate to break it to you but he already has beat the best. You need to stop ignoring the fact that Fedor is not giving in this conflict of principles over 1 or 2 decent fights. And that in the fight game, if you're a contender you have to chase the champion, the champion doesn't come looking for you. Especially if the wanna be champion has 4-1 record... haha

[curmudgeon]

Lesnar is already in the #1 organization with the most top rated heavyweights. Why would he take a paycut and ruin his career by pursuing one fighter outside of the UFC when there is nobody else to fight after Fedor?


Because if he dreams he is better, he should get his ass in line to fight Fedor.

Why would he take a paycut? Who said it will be a paycut? If he hides behind a contract, he is just a little Dana's bitch.

Fedor deserved that challengers haul their asses to him, not the other way around.

Those who do not - fuck them.

[curmudgeon]

You think Strikeforce can pay Lesnar what the UFC is :lol: Fedor's going to bankrupt them as it is.


It does not matter. Burden of proof is on Lesnar, not on Fedor.

Nobody heard about? Log in to Yahoo and look at their ratings and shut the fuck up. You sound like an idiot.

[curmudgeon]

lol tell me that when Lesnar passes Fedor in the rankings due to defeating superior opposition based on recent performances.

What recent performances? Did he defeat anybody as good as Silva or Arlovsky? I must have missed that.

When Lesnar is 20+ to 1 and defeated everybody of note in his era, then get back. In the mean time keep sucking Dana's dick.

[curmudgeon]

Kimbo Slice has proven to be a bigger draw than Fedor. Who are you trying to kid?

Only a complete moron will evaluate fighter performance by US TV ratings.

[curmudgeon]

We weren't evaluating fighters, we were talking about their popularity you tool.

I was not talking about Fedor's popularity, if you have bothered to interrupt your UFC cheer-leading and read my post.

The title of this thread is about Fedor's legacy. Legacy is not defined by revenues. Nobody gives a fuck about how many fucks tune in to watch Lesnar beat on some sucker.

If Lesnar or anybody else think they are better then Fedor right now, they need to prove it. Not the other way around.

[curmudgeon]

Considering that Mir was ranked above both of them and that Couture kicked Silvia's ass who kicked Arlovskis ass you dont have much legs to stand on in this argument.

That must be the dumbest post in this thread.

Consider also that Lesnar did lose to Mir.

[curmudgeon]

I said Kimbo was a bigger draw than Fedor, not a better fighter than Fedor, yet you claimed I was trying to say that Kimbo was a better fighter. Which part of that confused you? Do you need me to draw you a graph next time?

Are you indeed that obtuse?

Yes, please, draw me a graph. You are amusing.

[thejokerswild]

Clearly you're so stuck on Fedors nuts that you would rather bask in his former accomplishments than watch him fight in fights that people actually want to see here in the present day..... you know that thing called reality?

Keep dusting off your old pride DVD's as the rest of the world passes you by with their eyes focussed on the only relavant MMA organization.


A fascination and pathetic commitment to a company that is the UFC is clouding your judgement to look at things properly. At the end of the day it's the 2 men in the ring(or cage...) that count, everything else must come 2nd.

Truth be told, Fedor has done all he needs to do to be the best. 2nd place is pretty far back. There is no fight out there that he needs to win to prove to a healthy minded person that he's the greatest. How are you going to dispute that?

Therefore, all other fights are unnecessary, entertaining and anticipated ofcourse but still fact is, they are unnecessary. Obviously i want to see those other fights but it's about being objective. AS opposed to looking at only at my own interests.

UFC loyal scumbags know he did it all without a single Dana White transaction and to this day wants nothing to do with that company. They hate that fact, they would like to bring him down at any given oppurtunity. Especially the weakass one that he was losing the first 3 and half minutes of a first round KO. :lol:

[Mob]

Because if he dreams he is better, he should get his ass in line to fight Fedor.

Why would he take a paycut? Who said it will be a paycut? If he hides behind a contract, he is just a little Dana's bitch.

Fedor deserved that challengers haul their asses to him, not the other way around.

Those who do not - fuck them.

Lesnar doesn't need Fedor. The UFC, unfortunately...doesnt' need Fedor.

And evidently...Fedor doesn't need them


But the fact is that in the past year or so....Lesnar's comp has been better than Fedor's comp.

[ufoalf]

Lesnar doesn't need Fedor. The UFC, unfortunately...doesnt' need Fedor.

And evidently...Fedor doesn't need them


But the fact is that in the past year or so....Lesnar's comp has been better than Fedor's comp.

UFC doesn't need Fedor but they sure as fuck want him. Fedor doesn't need UFC and doesn't want UFC. Fedor has proven everything he needs to be called GOAT today.

As for the last statement, it's complete rubbish. Check your facts sir.


Also, seriously. This argument is retarded. It's clear that EVERYONE wants Fedor in the UFC, the argument usually starts when people start calling Fedor pussy, scared of competition etc. I as a fan will defend him because I understand his point of you much more than you do, otherwise you wouldn't talk shit. I understand his priorities but I still would've loved to see him in UFC. Unfortunately his legacy can't be tarnished by this decision even if it could, Fedor just don't give a f@*k.

[thejokerswild]

You pigeon holing me into a make believe world where people who watch the UFC are brainwashed Dana White acolytes is laughable. I couldn't care less about Dana White or the UFC as a business. There's a reason why everybody watches the UFC. They have 95% of the talent, they put on the most shows and the best shows. I fall into this category: I want to see all of the best fighters housed under the same roof so we can see them all fight eachother. If that roof was Strikeforce than so be it.... but here in reality it's the UFC that dominates MMA while Strikeforce is some second rate bush league that only has one fighter of any real consequence.

If you want to be some rogue internet badass who does not support things because they're mainstream than so be it, watch your strikeforce. Enjoy :lol: The UFC is where it's at and everybody and their mother knows it. If Fedor doesn't want to join the party than #uck him. He would have been a god among men if he had cleaned out the UFC heavyweight division - now he's only going to be a sidenote in the history books while the guys in the UFC who he's probably better than are going to get all of the glory. Hope M1 was worth it.
:verysad...

The only thing I'm disapointed in is the fact mainstream america are likely to never really know/accept his achievements from the decision he's made. That doesn't seem to concern him anyway, he's probably living in a mountain cave for all we know.

[scurlaruntings]

I dont know why you guys are bothering with this cretin. He's just one of those UFC joy boys you see posting on Sherdog or MMA Junkie. Let sleep dogs lay.

[Ubersteve]

Fedor supposedly has three fights left with M-1. Overeem, Werdum and Rogers are all worthy fights, then he can go to the UFC if he wants.

Dude was set to fight Barnett, so obviously he aint ducking anyone.

[Ubersteve]

Well if he doesn't, it's just down to shitty politics. Barnett was a bigger threat than anyone he could have fought in UFC.

[curmudgeon]

I dont know why you guys are bothering with this cretin. He's just one of those UFC joy boys you see posting on Sherdog or MMA Junkie. Let sleep dogs lay.

I am not sure why I have bothered to answer him. I usually do not argue with dummies.

Somehow he is obsessed with MMA organizations He is obviously clueless about MMA fighters.

[curmudgeon]

:patschThis coming from the guy who thinks Lesnar should drop his contract at UFC to sign with Strikeforce:good

You lack basic comprehension skills.

I have said that Lesnar needs to fight Fedor if he wants to prove that he is better.

I do not give a flying fuck where he signs up. It is up to him to prove himself, not up to Fedor.

You are completely incapable of even basic logical thinking and comprehension. I will take my own advice and stop talking with a dummy any further.

[thejokerswild]

lmao you're a tool.

[curmudgeon]

lmao you're a tool.

You are too nice to him.

[Sarah]

Pretty much every MMA star will tell you Fedor is the P4P greatest so unless you are an MMA star yourself you are wrong.