sugar ray leonard vs marvin hagler

[Bill Butcher]

This has probably been done 1000`s of times & it is probably the most contraversial fight in history but here goes.

This was to determine who was the true boxing talent of the 80`s & I personally thought it was a fantastic fight between 2 atg`s, not in their prime but still good enough to show us what it might have looked like had it been.

I had leonard a 115-113 winner (the 118-110 judge was on crack) as I thought ray took 5 of the 1st 6 rds (losing rd 5) but although marvin came back wonderfully, I dont think he took 5 of the last 6 in the 2nd half.


This fight cemented what most already thought, that ray leonard was 1 of the most talented, clever & gritty boxers ever to lace them up & I thought the guy definetely deserved the decision.

I think marv was so gutted because he knew how massive this fight was to both their legacies that he has a taste of sour grapes but 1 day when (if) hagler ever gets over this fight, he can sit down & say `you know what, ray leonard won that fight.`


For the record, I gave srl rds 1 2 3 4 6 11 12
The fight was even after 10 rds & leonard showed his true championship quality by winning the last 2 rds.

sugar ray leonard, the `boxer of the 80s`

[achillesthegreat]

I love Marv but he lost and he lost to a welterweight - Leonard was a special fighter. That means alot considering he fought in probably the most special era for small guys.

[Thread Stealer]

I thought Hagler won.

I like Leonard more than I do Hagler so there's no bias here.

But it was a close fight, and I don't really have a problem with Leonard winning. What bothered me was the 118-110 scorecard. That was a joke.

[Senya13]

Leonard ahead by 1 point or a draw.

[Robbi]

I love Marv but he lost and he lost to a welterweight - Leonard was a special fighter. That means alot considering he fought in probably the most special era for small guys.

I do personally like Hagler more than Leonard. But Hagler lost the fight, fairly and clearly as well. I happend to be fast forwarding one of my video tapes the other night and stopped and played it during the 4th round of the fight. Hagler was missing with many punches, and at one point he missed with a wide lead left hook, to say it was off target is an understatement.

Casting my mind back further when I last viewed the fight, Hagler looked dreadful during the 9th round, which was one of his best rounds of the fight. He won the round with his pressure, but never looked good doing so. He had Leonard against the ropes but was missing more than he was landing, and his handspeed had diminished considerably since he fought Hearns two years earlier.

Hagler's post fight comments were that of a sore loser. "Leonard never hurt me, he ran, and fought like a girl". Couldn't care, he showed better variation, better defense, and landed scoring punches. If punches land and dont hurt an opponent, they score points. Also running in Hagler's eyes, is defensively minded smart boxing in mines.

[TIGEREDGE]

i believe that hagler blew the fight in the early rounds by trying to be cute and outbox srl. if he had of put the pressure on ray from the start, it would of been a different fight

i had it 115-113 for srl but it was very close. hagler beat hagler not srl (see above)

[achillesthegreat]

Leonard was the ring general, he fought his fight. The punch stats show a better defence and more accurate punching...

...and yes he won the crowd over, the judges over and the viewers at home.

Leonard was the underdog facing a monster and he won arguably the first four rounds. I think it was the fifth round that he wound up a punch and let it rip. I remember when he did it, a woman in the crowd gets up and screams with glee. That is the sort of power Leonard had over the people - he electrified them. Even in the 9th when Hagler is beginning to rip Leonard and it looks like Leonards time had come, he was letting rip with combos that had you thinking WOW rather than Hagler won the round. Finally in the 12th Leonard wins everyone over with his dancing, showboating etc

I don't mind someone having it 7-5 Hagler. Many prefer the offensive, aggressive fighter. No problem but more people than not will pick Sugar. It was Sugars night and still gives me a buzz to watch it for the millionth time.

[80s champs]

I thought Hearns did a better job,especially in the second fight,than Hagler did in his matchup with the Sugar Man. The Hit man was totally outboxing Leonard in the first fight before running out of gas and getting knocked out,in the second fight however,Hearns Cleary won that,and had a better chin this time around,even though Leonard often showed his championship dominance. That second was a great fight though even though both were passed their primes,that night though Hearns was da man..

[JohnThomas1]

Welcome to the forums Bill and your card is around the same as mine. Hard to disagree with you Fighter of the 80's tag

:good

[Robbi]

Welcome to the forums Bill and your card is around the same as mine. Hard to disagree with you Fighter of the 80's tag

:good

JT. My top five fighters of the 80's.

1. Sugar Ray Leonard.
2. Marvin Hagler
3. Larry Holmes
4. Mike Tyson
5. Michael Spinks

[Robbi]

Hm, what about chavez? Duran?

Chavez would be just outside my top 5. Duran had some solid wins, but also had many setbacks as well. Losses to Leonard and Hearns stand out. He's better getting a mention among the best fighters of the 70's, as his longevity was better, and he was in his prime.

[TIGEREDGE]

JT. My top five fighters of the 80's.

1. Sugar Ray Leonard.
2. Marvin Hagler
3. Larry Holmes
4. Mike Tyson
5. Michael Spinks

HERE IS MY 1980's TOP 10:

HAGLER
SRL
SANCHEZ
LARRY HOLMES
HEARNS
CHAVEZ
TYSON
Mccallum
Pryor
Holyfield


so many to choose from

[redrooster]

This has probably been done 1000`s of times & it is probably the most contraversial fight in history but here goes.

This was to determine who was the true boxing talent of the 80`s & I personally thought it was a fantastic fight between 2 atg`s, not in their prime but still good enough to show us what it might have looked like had it been.

I had leonard a 115-113 winner (the 118-110 judge was on crack) as I thought ray took 5 of the 1st 6 rds (losing rd 5) but although marvin came back wonderfully, I dont think he took 5 of the last 6 in the 2nd half.


This fight cemented what most already thought, that ray leonard was 1 of the most talented, clever & gritty boxers ever to lace them up & I thought the guy definetely deserved the decision.

I think marv was so gutted because he knew how massive this fight was to both their legacies that he has a taste of sour grapes but 1 day when (if) hagler ever gets over this fight, he can sit down & say `you know what, ray leonard won that fight.`


For the record, I gave srl rds 1 2 3 4 6 11 12
The fight was even after 10 rds & leonard showed his true championship quality by winning the last 2 rds.

sugar ray leonard, the `boxer of the 80s`

No. To decide who was the p4p best would have come around 5 years before but Ray couldn't go thru with it because he knew his chances were nil. Hagler was trying to goad Ray into not going thru with his fake retirement.

Marvin understood the reasons for Ray's being hesitant. He saw the fear in his eyes in the closeup interview and knew how a knockout loss would make him look.

In fact, this was not viewed as that sort of fight-fighter of the decade. Leonard hadn't fought in three years and even then wasn't considered the best fighter. Moreover, by 1986, Hagler was ready to retire after the Mugabi fight so it was already forgotten because no one ever thought it would happen - it wasn't the highly anticipated mega fight Hagler-Hearns was.

[Robbi]

No. To decide who was the p4p best would have come around 5 years before but Ray couldn't go thru with it because he knew his chances were nil. Hagler was trying to goad Ray into not going thru with his fake retirement.

Marvin understood the reasons for Ray's being hesitant. He saw the fear in his eyes in the closeup interview and knew how a knockout loss would make him look.

In fact, this was not viewed as that sort of fight-fighter of the decade. Leonard hadn't fought in three years and even then wasn't considered the best fighter. Moreover, by 1986, Hagler was ready to retire after the Mugabi fight so it was already forgotten because no one ever thought it would happen - it wasn't the highly anticipated mega fight Hagler-Hearns was.

Little Rooster. You really are biased towards Leonard. No offence, but Ive been reading your posts on him for quite some time now. While I don't claim to be a Leonard bandwagon follower, I can see he was clearly a great fighter. It seems the decision against Hagler really is part of the problem in your true distain towards him.

On paper Hagler should have knocked Leonard out. He was rated by many as "pound for pound" the best fighter in the world along with Curry. Sure, he was past his prime, probably by around 3-4 years to be fair. But he squared off against a fighter who had one fight in five years, and had never fought at middleweight. Don't you at least give Leonard some credit for lasting the distance, even if you thought Hagler won?.

And before you rubbish Leonard tactics, lets not forget many fighters enter the ring with the mindset on solely winning a decision. Leonard knew coming forward exchanging blows with Hagler was far from a wise move against a decent banger, combined with Hagler's terrific chin. I don't see anything remotley sensible for Leonard trying to go for the knockout. He'd be playing right into Hagler's hands.

[mcvey]

This has probably been done 1000`s of times & it is probably the most contraversial fight in history but here goes.

This was to determine who was the true boxing talent of the 80`s & I personally thought it was a fantastic fight between 2 atg`s, not in their prime but still good enough to show us what it might have looked like had it been.

I had leonard a 115-113 winner (the 118-110 judge was on crack) as I thought ray took 5 of the 1st 6 rds (losing rd 5) but although marvin came back wonderfully, I dont think he took 5 of the last 6 in the 2nd half.


This fight cemented what most already thought, that ray leonard was 1 of the most talented, clever & gritty boxers ever to lace them up & I thought the guy definetely deserved the decision.

I think marv was so gutted because he knew how massive this fight was to both their legacies that he has a taste of sour grapes but 1 day when (if) hagler ever gets over this fight, he can sit down & say `you know what, ray leonard won that fight.`


For the record, I gave srl rds 1 2 3 4 6 11 12
The fight was even after 10 rds & leonard showed his true championship quality by winning the last 2 rds.

sugar ray leonard, the `boxer of the 80s`
I thought leonard took it by about a round ,it was too close for all the furore thats endured over the years,either way it wouldnt have been a robbery.

[Robbi]

I thought Hagler won.

I like Leonard more than I do Hagler so there's no bias here.

But it was a close fight, and I don't really have a problem with Leonard winning. What bothered me was the 118-110 scorecard. That was a joke.

Just thumbed the pages of the Leonard v Hagler review in KO, 1987. They had the fight scored 118-111, Leonard. :yikes

[Street Lethal]

12 successful title defenses, all but one coming inside the distance. Undefeated over 11 years. Clear points win over Duran, who was Leonard's master, a devastating knockout of Hearns, who busted Leonard up + brutal beatdowns of Mugabi, Hamsho, Antuofermo, Obel, Roldan, Minter, and Sibson. Marvin Hagler, fighter of the decade hands down.

[Thread Stealer]

Just thumbed the pages of the Leonard v Hagler review in KO, 1987. They had the fight scored 118-111, Leonard. :yikes

I remember one of those magazines giving Hagler 2 rounds. I couldn't remember which one, thanks for reminding me.

Laughable scorecard.

[Street Lethal]

Just thumbed the pages of the Leonard v Hagler review in KO, 1987. They had the fight scored 118-111, Leonard. :yikes
I remember that and wasn't surprised. KO was always a dedicated Leonard shaftstroker.

[My dinner with Conteh]

At least KO got the right winner. :good
As for the Fighter of the 1980s, it mayeb should go to Hagler as he dominated most of it, while Leonard had more of a 'fits and starts' style career.

[redrooster]

Just thumbed the pages of the Leonard v Hagler review in KO, 1987. They had the fight scored 118-111, Leonard. :yikes

I'm guessing that must have been Farhood. He usually got so excited watching leonard fight, that he couldn't think straight. He's what some people might call a genuine cunt.

[Street Lethal]

I'm guessing that must have been Farhood. He usually got so excited watching leonard fight, that he couldn't think straight. He's what some people might call a genuine cunt.
I think it was Farhood. Wetdream for him.

[JohnThomas1]

HERE IS MY 1980's TOP 10:

Holyfield




:blood

Also a big Sanchez fan but find it difficult to have a guy who fought for just over 2 years in the 80's as top 3.

[JohnThomas1]

I'm guessing that must have been Farhood. He usually got so excited watching leonard fight, that he couldn't think straight. He's what some people might call a genuine cunt.


:rofl

[Holmes' Jab]

Leonard by UD, 116-112. :good

[achillesthegreat]

So what? Leonard lost to a past prime lightweight, badly, while he was in his prime.
True, but the record books show Leonard avenged it.

[George W Hedge]

I think I had the same score of 7-5 leonard but that was trying not to give any even rds.

I gave hagler more even rds than srl, probably because I had leonard well ahead & didnt want to end up with a lopsided scorecard to be honest.

Leonard boxed beautifully & won the 1st 4 rds
Hagler lost the 1st 2 mins of rd 5 but landed some big bombs in the final min to take his 1st rd.
Both men had there moments in a close rd 6 but leonard landed a bit more + scored with about 4 or 5 punches to end & win the rd.

2nd half....

Hagler pounds leonard who trades with his man more than he should have for rds 7 & 8 but these were marvins best rds & he looked to have finally caught up with srl... both rds to hagler.
Best rd of fight was rd 9... both men showed their grit & skill but I gave it to Hagler on sheer aggressive pressure.
Rd 10,just like rd 6, very hard to score but hagler gets the last punches in aswell as catching srl with a belter of a right hook after ducking a wild right, rd to hagler.

championship rds....

A tired looking srl puts some nice movement & combos together in spurts while avoiding haglers biggest bombs, both looked gassed, rd to leonard.
The final rd & leonard looks refreshed as in rd 1, hagler traps him now & then landing occassionally but mostly being made to miss & in the mean time being hit cleanly by ray, also srl lands some beautifull flurries, most of which score, ray gets on his bike feeling the rd is his, marvin catches him with about 10-15 secs to go but the trading on the ropes is about 50/50, marvin lands the last good punch, his final punch is blocked by ray then the bell goes... rd to leonard purely on clean punching & defence.

I fkn love this fight, its right up there with Ali Foreman & Morales Pacquiao 1 as its my 3 fav boxers most magical performances.

No doubt leonard won this fight & marvin should watch real robberies like EM MAB 2 before he opens his mouth & spills shit.

:good

[redrooster]

:rofl

we're talking about a one in a million who went along with Guerra's scorecard who can't score a fight and you're wondering why he doesn't get respect?

[redrooster]

I think I had the same score of 7-5 leonard but that was trying not to give any even rds.

I gave hagler more even rds than srl, probably because I had leonard well ahead & didnt want to end up with a lopsided scorecard to be honest.

Leonard boxed beautifully & won the 1st 4 rds
Hagler lost the 1st 2 mins of rd 5 but landed some big bombs in the final min to take his 1st rd.
Both men had there moments in a close rd 6 but leonard landed a bit more + scored with about 4 or 5 punches to end & win the rd.

2nd half....

Hagler pounds leonard who trades with his man more than he should have for rds 7 & 8 but these were marvins best rds & he looked to have finally caught up with srl... both rds to hagler.
Best rd of fight was rd 9... both men showed their grit & skill but I gave it to Hagler on sheer aggressive pressure.
Rd 10,just like rd 6, very hard to score but hagler gets the last punches in aswell as catching srl with a belter of a right hook after ducking a wild right, rd to hagler.

championship rds....

A tired looking srl puts some nice movement & combos together in spurts while avoiding haglers biggest bombs, both looked gassed, rd to leonard.
The final rd & leonard looks refreshed as in rd 1, hagler traps him now & then landing occassionally but mostly being made to miss & in the mean time being hit cleanly by ray, also srl lands some beautifull flurries, most of which score, ray gets on his bike feeling the rd is his, marvin catches him with about 10-15 secs to go but the trading on the ropes is about 50/50, marvin lands the last good punch, his final punch is blocked by ray then the bell goes... rd to leonard purely on clean punching & defence.

I fkn love this fight, its right up there with Ali Foreman & Morales Pacquiao 1 as its my 3 fav boxers most magical performances.

No doubt leonard won this fight & marvin should watch real robberies like EM MAB 2 before he opens his mouth & spills shit.

:good

This was one of the WORST posts I've ever seen.

[JohnThomas1]

we're talking about a one in a million who went along with Guerra's scorecard who can't score a fight and you're wondering why he doesn't get respect?

Yeah, i bet he yearns for the respect afforded the Big Red Rooster from the boxing community hey

:lol:

[redrooster]

Yeah, i bet he yearns for the respect afforded the Big Red Rooster from the boxing community hey

:lol:

Maybe he deserves the same disrespect as Guerra. I can only imagine what Farhood thought of the criticism Guerra recieved over the scoring. Probably just kept quiet about the whole thing

[JohnThomas1]

Maybe he deserves the same disrespect as Guerra. I can only imagine what Farhood thought of the criticism Guerra recieved over the scoring. Probably just kept quiet about the whole thing

Well regardless Leonard walked away the champ so it matters little

:good

[My dinner with Conteh]

I'm guessing that must have been Farhood. He usually got so excited watching leonard fight, that he couldn't think straight. He's what some people might call a genuine cunt.


It was Jeff Ryan. Now He was up Leonard's arse...albeit a few inches less than you're up Marv's. :good

[redrooster]

It was Jeff Ryan. Now He was up Leonard's arse...albeit a few inches less than you're up Marv's. :good


Only fags use the word "albeit" :lol:

[Bill Butcher]

Only fags use the word "albeit" :lol:

Thats why you just used it I guess.

Anyway, I thought hedge`s thread was pretty damn accurate.
I personally think morales best win was the 1st mab fight & ali`s best win was vs frazier (3rd fight) but other than that the leonard hagler description sounds just about right.

Most people think the decision was right aswell as 2 judges & 1 judge actually has the fight exactly as I & many others saw it.

Dont get me wrong, hagler made this a close fight after a terrible start when srl schooled him in the pure art of boxing, marvin did well to come back but he never came back enough to even get a draw, leonard won this fight hands down.

Rooster, please watch this again, put down the crack pipe the beer & the valium, take a deep breath then watch the biggest non-hwt fight in history go to the better boxer, I love it, maybe you can aswell.

:hi:

[Sonny Carson]

There are more people nowadays who think Hagler won, I'm one of those people. All Sugar Ray did was pitty pat and run. Hagler hurt Leonard a couple of times and landed harder blow's throughout the fight. Leonard didn't like it to the body and Hagler hurt him badly in the 12th with a body shot.

[Street Lethal]

There are more people nowadays who think Hagler won, I'm one of those people. All Sugar Ray did was pitty pat and run. Hagler hurt Leonard a couple of times and landed harder blow's throughout the fight. Leonard didn't like it to the body and Hagler hurt him badly in the 12th with a body shot.
As time goes on more and more people will come to know that Hagler won the fight. Leonard's star was bright and blinded people. As his star fades, more people are able to see the bigger stars behind it.

[redrooster]

Thats why you just used it I guess.

Anyway, I thought hedge`s thread was pretty damn accurate.
I personally think morales best win was the 1st mab fight & ali`s best win was vs frazier (3rd fight) but other than that the leonard hagler description sounds just about right.

Most people think the decision was right aswell as 2 judges & 1 judge actually has the fight exactly as I & many others saw it.

Dont get me wrong, hagler made this a close fight after a terrible start when srl schooled him in the pure art of boxing, marvin did well to come back but he never came back enough to even get a draw, leonard won this fight hands down.

Rooster, please watch this again, put down the crack pipe the beer & the valium, take a deep breath then watch the biggest non-hwt fight in history go to the better boxer, I love it, maybe you can aswell.

:hi:

Screw that shit, Bill the bitch.

It's not accurate at all. it's biased with a capital B. I mean, he actually comes off like the fight took place when it should have. And as for the scoring, he mentions that leonard took the firrst four rounds straight which he didn't.

Rounds one and three were too close to give to either man if you want to be perfectly honest. But you're not honest because you count all the blows that caught Marvin on the gloves and you say most people count leonard the winner but from all the people I've talked to, I get just the opposite picture.

Other than that, Ray didn't do much actual scoring and Hagler didn't either. Leonard's always been somewhat weak in the delivery department-you don't believe me just watch leonard-Hearns over again. leonard has always been one of the least impressive performers in the sport so it's no surprise to me he was forced to wait a few years to get the most mediocre version of Marvin available.

I won't lie to you. Ray was impressive that night but Marvin seemed to be hitting him as lightly as possible, as slow as possible, as cautiously as possible, as if to let Leonard into the fight, something he never could have done with Terry Norris. It's as if marvin was coming down to his level, hence, all the cries of "fix".

I scored round one even, two for leonard, three was even and four for leonard.

Those rounds were nowhere near as decisive as say, rds. 1-12 from Norris-Leonard.

You want to see true ring wizardry, then that's the fight to watch. So please don't insult my intelligence with such crap as Ray Leonard-Marvin Hagler. This superfight was a dud. Not as much a dud as Hagler-Duran but it hardly matched up with some of the others.

[Street Lethal]

I heard as lot of calls of fix after the Hagler fight, too, but it doesn't make sense. I can never see Hagler going along with that. Hagler was far from his top form. He had trouble pulling the trigger. You saw the same thing with Chavez as he declined.