My thoughts on Joe Calzaghe and Floyd Mayweather Jr

[ripcity]

Joe Calzaghe and Floyd Mayweather Jr have been critizied for the level of their past oppoistion. This criticism is somewhat fair more so for Calzaghe in my opinion than Mayweather. I don't think that Calzaghe has fought anyone who is anywhere near his level with the exception of Jeff Lacy. Mayweither I don't think he has fought the best but his oppistion has not been as bad as his detractors clame.
Ok. Now to the point of this post both Calzaghe and Mayweither are about to take on opoent who can beat them. It is Ok to criticize their past level of oppistion but you have to credit them for taking on. Ricky Hatton and Mikkel Kessler. I probbly wont root for eather in their upcomeing fights, but my respect has gone up for both of them.

[brooklyn1550]

Nobody should question their opposition after their upcoming fights. Both are taking on undefeated champions. I know Mayweather isn't fighting Cotto, Mosley, or Williams (legitimate welterweights), but the Hatton fight is a step in that direction. And Calzaghe is taking on a guy who many believe is the best at 168, so no problems there. Mayweather, in my opinion, has already established himself as an ATG so now he's looking to add to his legacy. Calzaghe on the other hand is looking to become one of the greats and a win over Mikkel Kessler (which I predict) will solidify his place as a great fighter.

[cuchulain]

Joe Calzaghe and Floyd Mayweather Jr have been critizied for the level of their past oppoistion. This criticism is somewhat fair more so for Calzaghe in my opinion than Mayweather. I don't think that Calzaghe has fought anyone who is anywhere near his level with the exception of Jeff Lacy. Mayweither I don't think he has fought the best but his oppistion has not been as bad as his detractors clame.
.


Mayweather is in a better position here than Joe. And Mayweather has dealt with most of his possible good opponents (Corales, Castillo, Judah, DeLahoya, and soon, Hatton. He still needs SSM and Cotto to have 'cleaned up'.

Joe suffered here because he is so far above all the other SMWs.

"I don't think that Calzaghe has fought anyone who is anywhere near his level with the exception of Jeff Lacy"

Partly true, the first part, and that's because they didn't exist (save for Roy, and Roy wasn't too interested).

Re: the second part: Jeff Lacey was NOT near Joe's level and not his best win.

[kg0208]

Mayweather is in a better position here than Joe. And Mayweather has dealt with most of his possible good opponents (Corales, Castillo, Judah, DeLahoya, and soon, Hatton. He still needs SSM and Cotto to have 'cleaned up'.

Joe suffered here because he is so far above all the other SMWs.

"I don't think that Calzaghe has fought anyone who is anywhere near his level with the exception of Jeff Lacy"

Partly true, the first part, and that's because they didn't exist (save for Roy, and Roy wasn't too interested).

Re: the second part: Jeff Lacey was NOT near Joe's level and not his best win.

Well Jones was not at 168 when Calzaghe came to prominance.

[kg0208]

How can Joe fight someone near his level in a division that doesn't have anyone near his level? He is peerless at 168.

He'll fight and kick Kessler's ass and then someone will suggest Bute is the guy to beat him, this has gone on his entire career but most of you only know of him since the Lacy fight.

Calzaghe tried to get Hopkins, tried to get RJJ back when they meant something, not enough money in the Calzaghe pot at the time to lure those fights, can't blame Calzaghe for that.

The fact is, he's beaten many good fighters, a few great fighters and one elite (Eubank) - he's about to beat another good fighter in Kessler, maybe he'll get some more dues there but unless he thrashes American icons like Tarver, Jones Jr, Hopkins, he's never going to be that well received in America

He tried to get RJJ to come down to him and to his home country when Jones was #1 P4P and the LHW champion. It wasn't about money, it was that Calzaghe didn't have the clout to ask that of Jones and wasn't willing to go to Jones.

I don't think he is not well received because he is not American. Lewis is rated highly and he is not American. Hatton is rated highly and he is not American.

[kg0208]

IBF? INternational Boxing Fuckups? The same sanctioning body that let Judah keep his title after being beaten by Baldomir? Please.

The titles all mean shit - it's the fighters who define the titles, Joe's WBO is the best title at SMW, that's all you have to worry about you ducky fuck

The WBO title isn't better than anyone elses. Joe is better, not the title.

Hell, its why his opposition has been lacking somewhat. It's not as bad as they say, but not great by any means.

The WBO doesn't strip fighters like the other orgs do, but often their rankings have been horrible resulting in horrible mandatories. But he has beaten some good fighters. He also missed some great ones.

[kg0208]

Hatton isn't rated highly, it's just that everyone wants to believe there is someone out there that can take the 0 from Mayweather, Hatton isn't the guy for that. In any case, Hatton beat a top mexican fighter in JLC, as well as beating a universally liked Kosta Tsyzu - two big househeld names.

Lewis? Made his career blowing out American fighters.

Calzaghe hasn't had many USA fighters on his scoresheet.

Lewis made his career beating top level fighters. Who cares where they are from? You do....

No one complained when Lewis fought Bruno.

And Hatton has been rated highly for a while now. You are just tossing in your opinion now to make your point. He IS rated as the top 140lb fighter, and if people think he can beat PBF, then he is obviously thought highly of and that's the proof.

[ripcity]

I think you are missing my point. Criticism of their oppistion is fair but we need to give them credit for upcomeing fights.

[kg0208]

Read the fucking post above you lame cunt. WBO is the best title at SMW because of the legacy it has, have a look at all of the other titles and see how many times they've changed hands.

What you gonna say when Cazlaghe fucks Kessler over and takes all the straps in the game? "Oh, Joe should have gone for the IBO, FUCKING PANZY"
Another pathetic name calling keyboard warrior who can't debate cordially.

You have no point. And I picked Calzaghe to beat Kessler so that was idiotic to say.

The WBO doesn't have a legacy. Calzaghe does.

[kg0208]

At SMW? The only four opportunities I think he missed are

1. Sven Ottke - who didn't want to fight Joe Calzaghe, who Calzaghe offered to fight in Germany for free at one point via one of his articles.

2. Markus Beyer - before Kessler got to him, Joe would've massacred this guy without breaking a sweat.

3. Anthony Mundine - again, before Kessler got to him, Joe would've stopped this guy in an earlier round than Ottke, then could've put pressure on Ottke for a fight

4. Glen Johnson - a renowned fighter now due to performances over Jones and a solid fighter known in America with which to base further careers on

So, 1 is ruled out because Ottke wouldn't make the fight

2 and 3 are ruled out because they got beaten into oblivion by Kessler.

Which leaves 4...

Glen Johnson is the only guy Calzaghe could have fought, should have fought but did not fight.

I never said SMW. I said great fighters. Like other great fighters, he can move up in weight to challenge other great fighters.

[kg0208]

Learn how to read, you ignorant little shit. I'm posting to the other guy who is replying to these threads, you know, the one that threw out insults first?

Now you deserve insults, you dopey cunt.
Learn to read yourself. I JUST said something about the WBO and you posted about it with a bunch of ignorant name calling and didn't mention a name. Learn to use the quote button that way your post is in context.

Call me names all you like. It's the internet and you're the only one pissed off here.

[brooklyn1550]

It's a contender's belt..it's for young up and coming fighters..not 40 y/o Welsh/Wop sissies that are too scared to fight anybody..:deal

Joe is bitch fighter and has bitch fans:yep

You're definitely correct...Joe is too afraid to fight anybody with a pulse. Who the hell is this Kessler guy anyways? If Calzaghe doesn't want to be remembered as a "bitch fighter with bitch fans," he should take on a real challenger like Markus Beyer or Jurgen Braehmer.

[Rock0052]

:happy :happy :happy

You cracked his ass with that one..

Pal Joey must have BABY NUTS...I mean..who else would dump a REAL belt for a WBO crap-strap??:nut

So now you think he ducked Stieglitz? :lol:

[kg0208]

Lewis wasn't rated in America after the Bruno performance though, it took the beating of Holyfield, Rahman, Tyson, Briggs, McCall, Morrison before he started getting his dues in America.

Like I said, you take away the icon fighters from Lennox Lewis (and quite frankly, the versions of Tyson, McCall, Morrison and Briggs that he fought weren't that good) and he isn't rated as highly.

Hatton is ONLY thought of highly because people WANT him to beat Mayweather. Perhaps you didn't see people rip into him in his attempt at 147, calling him another over-rated English bum, huh?

Wasn't til he beat JLC that he started getting more and more respect again

They ripped into him because he looked bad, not because he was English. The fact that they think he can beat PBF says they think he is good. No one here, even PBF's haters, pick just anyone to beat PBF.

Lewis was rated highly when he beat Bruno. He was #3 by Ring who only had Holyfield who had 2 titles and was Lineal and Bowe who was the former champion (they had split their matches) ahead of him. No one complained when he fought Bruno to my memory.

[kg0208]

I don't give a fuck if it's the internet, you get all squeemy because you see swear words and think someone's pissed off? I'm laughing at your assertion that the WBO means nothing in SMW. Fighters define the title, not vice versa

At the moment, Joe's WBO strap is the best in the business at 168 - like it or fucking lump it, you queer little bitch.

Say what you want. You are angry and you haven't proven anything. I think it's funny. Keep it up, you look like a moron doing it.

[kg0208]

And give away his want to have 20 title defences that he's been talking about since his 10th? Shyeah, Right.

Sorry, I don't buy that ALL fighters have to go up and down weight divisions to prove greatness, I prefer fighters who stay in a division and clean it out.
Then he missed great fights didn't he. Point proven. It has nothing to do with what you think is greatness. We are talking about perception. You said he tried to get Jones. I guess you think Jones should go down to him?

[brooklyn1550]

Kessler is gonna stomp that old geezer:deal

Maybe he will, maybe he wont...this is boxing and anything can happen. Let's wait until November 3rd and we'll find out:good

[kg0208]

So, if we're basing ratings off of the Ring, then Joe has been rated highly since 1997. He's been either #2, 1 or Champ since 1997 as far as I can remember. So hell, Joe must be the most popular fighter ever to have lasted that long in the rankings huh?

Funny that you talk about context, how about you learn some

We're talking popularity and common perception of a fighter, not educated perception - Ring have known since 1997 that Calzaghe was a great fighter.

You are talking about YOUR perception and generalizing public perception. You need to learn how to make a point. Facts trump opinioins, which is all you've got.

[Danny Ocean]

Get me some sense? You fucking moron

He beat Lacy for the IBF
He's about to beat Kessler for WBC, WBA.

All four belts, five including the ring.

That's not cleaning a division? Go grow a fucking brain.

so emotional :-(

[kg0208]

He didn't miss anything, he cleaned up his division and will soon have held every single belt in his division without losing any of them - making him about the only undisputed champion we've had in boxing for how long now?

Let little Floyd try that one out, stay at 140-147 until he's gained all four major belts.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Taylor is undisputed NOW at 160. PBF is undisputed NOW at 147.

You are contradicting yourself.

[kg0208]

You're nothing more than a hollow arguer who tries to evolve from his initial statement to avoid being proven wrong

You stated that Lewis was rated highly and thought of highly, adverse to Calzaghe. When shown that Lewis was only rated highly due to performances over American icon fighters, you then bought out the Ring Ratings.

When shown that Calzaghe has been in the Top10 Ring ratings for more than a decade, you shy away from that point and tell me that all I am is opinions?

You arguing for an arguments sake, shitwit.
Not really, you just like to twist things into something they aren't to avoid actual points.

I said Lewis was rated highly. He was. He beat RATED fighters and former champions and ATG. They happen to be American. He was rated highly because he beat highly rated fighters. If their were highly rated foreign HW's and Lewis beat them, then he would still have been rated highly.

You prove this point by pointing out that Calzaghe has been rated highly for years at SMW. He got their by beating highly rated fighters....many of whom were not American. So it's about fighting highly rated fighters NOT where they are from. Otherwise Calzaghe wouldn't have been rated very highly at all.

YOU are talking about PUBLIC perception, something you cannot prove. Calzaghe isn't given his due like you think he should and you want to argue that. Fine, like I said, he hasn't beaten alot of great fighters. He has missed quite a few. Your argument there is that he shouldn't have to leave his division. Well thats your opinion. Hatton beat an ATG and the lineal champion. He is now about to fight P4P #1...thats why he has respect.

You have no actual point other than your opinion and trying to lean on the American bias BS. If you beat highly rated fighters, no one cares where you're from.

[kg0208]

Floyd doesn't hold all 4 belts at 147.
Taylor doesn't hold all 4 belts at 160.

And Calzaghe won't hold all 4 belts if he beats Kessler.

But you don't count the IBF stripping him. He never lost it in the ring, so while someone else holds the belt, he is still champion right?

Taylor BEAT Hopkins when Hopkins held all 4 belts.

PBF beat Baldomir who beat Judah when he held all 4 belts.

When you beat the undiputed champion, you are undisputed. Isn't that your concept with Calzaghe? :patsch

[kg0208]

Sorry, fella - but how am I twisting things when you brought up the Ring Ratings to confirm that Lewis was highly rated after the Bruno victory?

Get a fucking clue. You can't use one measurement stick for one fighter and then switch to another measurement stick for Calzaghe, you're just fucking stupid if you do.

Joe has been highly RANKED - not highly RATED. American's still expect him to lose against Kessler which is such a fucking stupid concept it makes me laugh, just like they expected the loss against Lacy.

The fact remains, Lewis got his fame and rating from beating American icons, until you dispute that, I'm not going to bother answering any of your other points, you're a strawman - nothing more.

:lol::lol::lol:

Pathetic. I used Ring to point out a British fighter who was highly ranked, rated whatever you like. I also used Ring to rate Calzaghe. So how did I use 2 different measuring sticks?

You keep trying to make this into some opinion based bash the Americans escapade as is your way. Americans think Kessler is going to win? Who is the betting favorite in Vegas Blocky? For that matter Kessler isn't American, so that was a moronic statement to begin with.

Can you dispute that Lewis beat highly rated fighters? No, you can't. They happen to be American, but that doesn't prove your point. ANY fighter who beats alot of ranked fighters gets respect. They happen to be American this time. Pacman has gotten a ton of respect by beating Mexican icons...so there goes that theory. Or does this only apply to Calzaghe?

[kg0208]

A bit of a difference between winning all four belts off of the work of another fighter rather than gaining them from unification fights.

How many times did PBF defend his 4 belts? Oh, that's right.

How many times has Calzaghe defended all 4 belts? Oh yeah...thats right:deal

No, its not different. They beat the champion. Are you going to hold it against Calzaghe that Kessler had 2 of the belts? Is he benefiting from the work of another fighter?

When you beat the man, you are the man. The others are only title holders.

[Amsterdam]

Blocky, you're an absolute cunt. There is no reason to get that personal when discussing boxing. It's not even some poking jokes, you have nothing but vulgarity and an immature lack of respect against seasoned posters who are willing to debate with you.

Find another site, please.

[kg0208]

Blocky, you're an absolute cunt. There is no reason to get that personal when discussing boxing. It's not even some poking jokes, you have nothing but vulgarity and an immature lack of respect against seasoned posters who are willing to debate with you.

Find another site, please.

Hey, whats up with Mijares? I saw you rated him pretty high. I honestly can say I have never seen him fight. Is he THAT good?

[cuchulain]

Blocky, you're an absolute cunt. There is no reason to get that personal when discussing boxing. It's not even some poking jokes, you have nothing but vulgarity and an immature lack of respect against seasoned posters who are willing to debate with you.

Find another site, please.

Amsterdam,

you have just insulted all cunts everywhere by including Blocky in their number !

[ripcity]

Are you seriously considering that Hatton is a tough opponent for Floyd?? When Floyd takes care of Fatton he will take the winner of Cotto/Mosley. And that will be that.

[Only registered and activated users can see links] ([Only registered and activated users can see links])
Rather Hatton is going to be a tough opoent for Mayweather is to be determened in the ring. Hatton is however a very good boxer comeing off a major win. He is undefeted and dose very well aginst top his compition (Jose Luis Castillo and Kostya Tszyu)

[Amsterdam]

Hey, whats up with Mijares? I saw you rated him pretty high. I honestly can say I have never seen him fight. Is he THAT good?

Well, you should know by now what impresses me mate.:D

Yes, he's that good, he's also a work in progress at age 25. The only problem I have with him are a few defensive flaws, but offensively he's unbelievable.

He drilled Arce over 12 and took all but 1, it was just like Calz-Lacy, but from a stand up style, he was timing and landing 4-5 and 6 shots combinations at times and showed no holes except for the defense in a few area's.

Think about this -

Solid chin
Endless stamina
Accurate
Pin point constant jab
Fantastic footwork
A wide variety of shots
The ability to pop off combinations from a variety of situations
Great timing
'Workable' defense
Great hand and footspeed

That's how I'd describe Mijares and only after I managed to pick up a few more of his bouts. I am very high on the kid at the moment and think he will clear out the 112-118 general crop if he's given the oppurtunity.

[Toopretty]

How can Joe fight someone near his level in a division that doesn't have anyone near his level? He is peerless at 168.

He'll fight and kick Kessler's ass and then someone will suggest Bute is the guy to beat him, this has gone on his entire career but most of you only know of him since the Lacy fight.

Calzaghe tried to get Hopkins, tried to get RJJ back when they meant something, not enough money in the Calzaghe pot at the time to lure those fights, can't blame Calzaghe for that.

The fact is, he's beaten many good fighters, a few great fighters and one elite (Eubank) - he's about to beat another good fighter in Kessler, maybe he'll get some more dues there but unless he thrashes American icons like Tarver, Jones Jr, Hopkins, he's never going to be that well received in America

Thats crap..no way did Joey try for any of those guys..he did not even settle for less.....WAYYYY off.