Leonard Hearns II

[80s champs]

:happy Wow Great fight for two ever the hill greats. Despite the draw and Leonards great moments,that was clearly The Hit mans victory,and I think Leonard knew that,but Sugar sure had his moments though,almost knocked him out again.. I wonder how a rematch,yes number 3,would have gone in the next year. I would guess Hearns would ko leonard in the middle rounds,Hearns kept on fighting afterward scoring kos even against larger apponents,while Leonard was clearly on his way out. Hector Camacho knocked out Leonard later on I think. Leonards speed and movement were his best strengths,even though he had decent power too. But who knows with these two.

[Joe E]

Hearns got jobbed bad in this one.

[brooklyn1550]

I remember feeling sad for Tommy after this fight. Both were clearly aging and past their primes, but it was Tommy's chance for redemption. I thought he earned it and even Leonard admits it was Tommy's fight.

[salsanchezfan]

I think "jobbed bad" is a bit harsh. I also thought Hearns won, but no matter how you cut it, this was a close fight (down Rooster, down!).

Hearns may have floored Leonard twice, but Ray also had Tommy in bad trouble twice (at least once enough to easily warrant a 10-8 round). The draw here was FAR from the worst call I've ever seen, in fact I had it for Hearns by a point. Others may have it a bit wider, but it was still close. We have a bad habit here of calling close fights "robberies."

[Hitman]

Hearns was robbed! He desrved the fight and everyone knew it back then. Leonard always had it good with the judges, look at the Hagler fight. The wasn't nearly as close as that fight.

[salsanchezfan]

Hearns was robbed! He desrved the fight and everyone knew it back then. Leonard always had it good with the judges, look at the Hagler fight. The wasn't nearly as close as that fight.


.............Gotta disagree with you here Hitman (nice to see you, by the way). Round by round, this was very close. Leonard had a few emphatic rounds of his own. This was no whitewash.

[cpnasty]

Even Leonard knows Hearns won this fight. Leonard has said it himself

[Illmatic]

yeah, why do people think leonard doesnt admit it? On behind the glory he said "i consider me and tommy as 1-1"

[salsanchezfan]

Even Leonard knows Hearns won this fight. Leonard has said it himself


..........Doesn't make it a robbery. Like I said, I also had Hearns winning. But we all know how time softens the edges of competitive nature. Leonard in my opinion was just tipping his cap to his old rival. He may very well believe that Hearns won. Most would agree. One can't make the mistake of taking offhand comments and applying them to a situation as gospel. Just like Louis saying Marciano could have beaten him in his prime. You'd never catch him saying that in his prime, and Louis was a generous soul. He said these words to compliment Marciano rather than give a real heartfelt analysis of how the fight would have played out in their respective primes.

I recall reading how Willie Pep, seated ringside for Sanchez-Nelson, was heard to say, "I'm glad I never had to fight him" (Sanchez). These are just things a lot of fighters say to be kind.

[dmille]

sal,

you can't dispute one thing. keep the action but credit Leonard with two KDs and tell me that the judges would still have scored it a draw...

[Street Lethal]

Leonard lost to Hagler and he refused to admit it, so it's not like Leonard tips his hat to fighters who actual beat him. He even refused to admit Duran beat him the first time they fought, even when the decision was unanimous for Duran. The Hearns loss was so obvious that, in light of past preferential treatment, it was embarrassing. Leonard was on the canvas twice and outboxed for most of the minutes of most of the rounds. He spent much of the time looking like a frightened rabbit, much as he had in losing 10 of the first 12 rounds in the first fight. The draw so obviously proved the pattern of preferential treatment by judges that Leonard had to admit the loss or at least leave that impression to save face.

Even Leonard was shamefaced after that decision. You could see him thinking, "Shit, another controversial decision. This doesn't look good." Leonard's a smart guy. He wants people to believe that he got what he deserved in boxing. The Hearns decision had the potential to make it all problematic.

I'm convinced that's one of the reasons why Leonard and Trainer made a career out of acting as if every boxing city and writer were out to get Leonard. They would try to game the system by making it look like there was bias towards Leonard. Of course, they also geniunely believed - if what they say is to be believed - that people hated Ray because they were jealous of his marketability. If you were around at the time, you remember this. Leonard would appear on network TV and talk about how persecuted he was. It was pretty ridiculous to say the least.

So back to Hearns, here was Leonard, coming to the end of a career, a sporadic career, one with long layoffs, a serious butt kicking, and arguably the most controversial decision in boxing history (speaking of the Hagler fight now), and you just know he had to be totally concerned that people would see him as having no integrity if he didn't be honest and admit that, yes, in a sheepish sort of way, he should have another loss on his record.

In my eyes, Leonard has five losses on his record: Duran, Hagler, Hearns, Norris, and Camacho. None of these were close fights. Three of them included Leonard on the canvas.

[fists of fury]

I loved this fight.

I thought Leonard at this point had retained more of his skills than Hearns had, and I picked him to win.
Well, we all saw what happened. It was fairly close, but in my mind Hearns won clear enough.
I remember the unashamedly biased commentary from Hagler, who was openly rooting for Tommy to win. It was almost embarrasing at times!

How would a third fight have gone? Well, I'd be inclined to go with Hearns. He wanted a third fight and said as much during the post-fight interviews. Leonard didn't seem so keen on the idea though, saying "Let's go home and rest first."

I must say though, that Leonard handled the situation well. He knew it was Tommy's fight and yet he handled some awkward questions superbly.

[TBooze]

Hearns was my favourite fighter of the 80s and I had little time for Leonard, but there was little wrong with the decision.

Hearns won the fight, but the decision was fair because the judges had to use 10 point must.

The flaw was in ten point must, if you score the fight under that system you can go no better than 113/112 Hearns, thus a draw is fair.

[Doppleganger]

It wasn't a robbery and Tommy is my all-time favourite fighter. It was a close fight, despite SRL's 2 knockdowns. SRL had some big rounds and he won the last one fairly big. I thought Hearns won it by 2 points but certainly not the worst decision I've ever seen calling it a draw.

[salsanchezfan]

sal,

you can't dispute one thing. keep the action but credit Leonard with two KDs and tell me that the judges would still have scored it a draw...


...........Well, play the part of the judge yourself; whom would you have had winning? I might have given Leonard that one.

Either way, the point of this is that it was a close fight. Is anyone here (you don't count Rooster/Street Lethal, or whomever you are this week) denying it was a close fight? That was my whole point to begin with.

[Hitman]

.............Gotta disagree with you here Hitman (nice to see you, by the way). Round by round, this was very close. Leonard had a few emphatic rounds of his own. This was no whitewash.

Nice to see you too! Anyway, back to business. Hearns was robbed!;) !