Is This Man the Greatest Bantam Of All time?

[mcvey]

[Only registered and activated users can see links] EDER JOFRE

Does He Beat Olivares And Zarate?

[McGrain]

That's a GREAT picture.

[mcvey]

That's a GREAT picture.

Blimey Mac ,that was quick!

[Manassa]

They reckon Jofre was the '60s bantamweight version of Ray Robinson. From what I've seen I think I'd agree.

He's definitely in contention for a 'best of the best' induction.

[AlFrancis]

It's really hard to say. I wish there was more footage of him. Unfortunate that of only 3 films of him that I know about 2 of them are his only defeats. Looking at the Olivares/ Rose fight it is hard to see anyone living with him at his prime. As we know though styles make fights as Chucho Castillo showed.
How would Jofre deal with 69 Olivares? What would he bring?

[My2Sense]

Does He Beat Olivares And Zarate?

I think so, but that still wouldn't necessarily make him the greatest. He'd still have to contend with Ortiz, Brown, Dixon, and Herman. Not so sure how those fights would go.

[My2Sense]

How would Jofre deal with 69 Olivares? What would he bring?

I think he brings everything that Castillo and Herrera brought, and some more.

He should be tough enough and skilled enough to withstand Olivares' "fury" and then turn it back against him, for a late stoppage win IMO.

[WhataRock]

Certainly a level above Zarate IMO.

Him and Ruben have duked it out for my no1 spot for as long as Ive known about them. Ive always kind of sided with Eder though as I think because I sort of feel the need to compensate for the fact I know I have a huge bias when it comes to Olivares.

From what little film Ive seen of him though he certainly deserves the spot..at least I think he would be equal first with Olivares.

[AlFrancis]

I think he brings everything that Castillo and Herrera brought, and some more.

He should be tough enough and skilled enough to withstand Olivares' "fury" and then turn it back against him, for a late stoppage win IMO.


I would say he was a better fighter than either Castillo and Herrera who didn't IMO opinion beat the peak Olivares but I think I would fancy Olivares. I think Jofre had a problem keeping Harada off him and got dragged into his type of fight. Rose had the style to beat Harada by counterpunching and beating him to the punch. Castillo had the style to beat Ruben with a brilliant display of counterpunching in the second fight. I see Jofre struggling to keep Ruben off him and getting dragged into a war. He's only gonna come off second best to the big punching Olivares.
Could be being a bit unfair here comparing the Jofre of the Harada fights, some might say this wasn't a peak Jofre and he was struggling with the weight but he seemed to go the full 15 at a fast pace in both fights and was still a force nearly 10 years later. I'm not saying that Harada and Olivares had similar styles but they were both good at imposing their offensive styles on their opponents..

[Jorodz]

I would say he was a better fighter than either Castillo and Herrera who didn't IMO opinion beat the peak Olivares but I think I would fancy Olivares. I think Jofre had a problem keeping Harada off him and got dragged into his type of fight. Rose had the style to beat Harada by counterpunching and beating him to the punch. Castillo had the style to beat Ruben with a brilliant display of counterpunching in the second fight. I see Jofre struggling to keep Ruben off him and getting dragged into a war. He's only gonna come off second best to the big punching Olivares.
Could be being a bit unfair here comparing the Jofre of the Harada fights, some might say this wasn't a peak Jofre and he was struggling with the weight but he seemed to go the full 15 at a fast pace in both fights and was still a force nearly 10 years later. I'm not saying that Harada and Olivares had similar styles but they were both good at imposing their offensive styles on their opponents..

:thumbsupexcellent post. even though slightly past peak and weight drained, than jofre gives a good indication of the TYPE of fighter that could get to him: a headfirst, aggressive whirlwind puncher. olivares however was more than that. the man could BOX when he had to and was the divisions most powerful hitter ever, bar none. the only thing i think harada had that worked for him in those fights possibly better than ruben was his jab (which in those fights, rates as one of my favourite ever). ruben had much, much more power and used it with skill. while i don't know who would win, olivares at his peak would trouble jofre to no end

[AlFrancis]

:good:thumbsupexcellent post. even though slightly past peak and weight drained, than jofre gives a good indication of the TYPE of fighter that could get to him: a headfirst, aggressive whirlwind puncher. olivares however was more than that. the man could BOX when he had to and was the divisions most powerful hitter ever, bar none. the only thing i think harada had that worked for him in those fights possibly better than ruben was his jab (which in those fights, rates as one of my favourite ever). ruben had much, much more power and used it with skill. while i don't know who would win, olivares at his peak would trouble jofre to no end

:goodyes that is more or less what I'm saying. Both of them great offensive boxers with a lot more to go with it in different ways. I agree with you about Harada's jab he was a lot better boxer than sometimes given credit for. You don't beat Jofre by just swarming all over him.
I was watching Sung Kil Moon yesterday who I rate as a good fighter but as swarming fighters go he wasn't anywhere as near the complete fighter that Harada was.

[Bad_Intentions]

bad ass picture.

[AlFrancis]

bad ass picture.

Which one?

[Jorodz]

:good

:goodyes that is more or less what I'm saying. Both of them great offensive boxers with a lot more to go with it in different ways. I agree with you about Harada's jab he was a lot better boxer than sometimes given credit for. You don't beat Jofre by just swarming all over him.
I was watching Sung Kil Moon yesterday who I rate as a good fighter but as swarming fighters go he wasn't anywhere as near the complete fighter that Harada was.

:deal

[My2Sense]

even though slightly past peak and weight drained, than jofre gives a good indication of the TYPE of fighter that could get to him: a headfirst, aggressive whirlwind puncher.

But you could apply the same logic to Olivares in his losses Castillo and Herrera - an aggressive technician who could step inside his looping punches and work his body can beat him. Harada didn't simply outhustle Jofre either, he also held and wrestled like crazy, and even then just barely eeked out two close, perhaps debatable decisions. Olivares was stopped by both Castillo and Herrera, and in the first Herrera fight he appeared to almost fold or quit. I would say Olivares' losses revealed more weaknesses than Jofre's did.

[Tin_Ribs]

Jofre just pips Olivares for the no.1 slot IMO and Nat Fleischer's opinion of Jofre always sticks in my mind whenever I consider attempting to rank him. Jofre wrote the book on what it is to be a complete boxer-puncher; it's a crying shame that more extensive footage of his prime years isn't available. The fourth round of the first Jofre-Harada fight is one of my all-time favourites, with Harada initially swarming Jofre to the point of almost completely overwhelming him only for Jofre to then fire back, nailing Harada to body and head with remarkable power and precision.

Does anyone think Jofre could have beaten Wilfredo Gomez? At 122 or 126?

[Jorodz]

But you could apply the same logic to Olivares in his losses Castillo and Herrera - an aggressive technician who could step inside his looping punches and work his body can beat him. Harada didn't simply outhustle Jofre either, he also held and wrestled like crazy, and even then just barely eeked out two close, perhaps debatable decisions. Olivares was stopped by both Castillo and Herrera, and in the first Herrera fight he appeared to almost fold or quit. I would say Olivares' losses revealed more weaknesses than Jofre's did.

fair point:good olivares could certainly be outboxed at times and the harada wins were VERY close. it's been theorized by ring that a patient technical precision puncher would destroy olivares (ala azumah nelson). i can't disagree to be honest

[AlFrancis]

The Olivares of the Herrera fight wasn't exactly the 1969 version which is the version we've been talking about.

[WhataRock]

Jofre just pips Olivares for the no.1 slot IMO and Nat Fleischer's opinion of Jofre always sticks in my mind whenever I consider attempting to rank him. Jofre wrote the book on what it is to be a complete boxer-puncher; it's a crying shame that more extensive footage of his prime years isn't available. The fourth round of the first Jofre-Harada fight is one of my all-time favourites, with Harada initially swarming Jofre to the point of almost completely overwhelming him only for Jofre to then fire back, nailing Harada to body and head with remarkable power and precision.

Does anyone think Jofre could have beaten Wilfredo Gomez? At 122 or 126?


I dont know mate...At 122 that is one hell of a fight.

[Tin_Ribs]

But you could apply the same logic to Olivares in his losses Castillo and Herrera - an aggressive technician who could step inside his looping punches and work his body can beat him. Harada didn't simply outhustle Jofre either, he also held and wrestled like crazy, and even then just barely eeked out two close, perhaps debatable decisions. Olivares was stopped by both Castillo and Herrera, and in the first Herrera fight he appeared to almost fold or quit. I would say Olivares' losses revealed more weaknesses than Jofre's did.

Good points, especially the last sentence. Was Olivares at his best for the Castillo and Herrera fights though? I'm not altogether sure, I'll need to watch them more closely.

I do think though that Jofre could and maybe would have taken even the best version of Olivares. It would have been an unearthly tussle.

[AlFrancis]

fair point:good olivares could certainly be outboxed at times and the harada wins were VERY close. it's been theorized by ring that a patient technical precision puncher would destroy olivares (ala azumah nelson). i can't disagree to be honest


Rose was a patient technical precision puncher.

[My2Sense]

The Olivares of the Herrera fight wasn't exactly the 1969 version which is the version we've been talking about.

But neither was the Jofre of the Harada fights the same as the 1962 version.

[Jorodz]

Good points, especially the last sentence. Was Olivares at his best for the Castillo and Herrera fights though? I'm not altogether sure, I'll need to watch them more closely.

I do think though that Jofre could and maybe would have taken even the best version of Olivares. It would have been an unearthly tussle.

this i think we're all agreed upon:D. personally i think a PRIME Jofre would have been more boxer than boxer/puncher and as long as he can handle olivares' power, would time him and control the fight enough to pull out a decision.

[Tin_Ribs]

I dont know mate...At 122 that is one hell of a fight.

Too right it is. I can never make my mind up about it; last time someone mentioned it, I believe I sided with Jofre then - I seem to pick him over everyone to an unhealthy extent at times - but it wouldn't be a particularly confident pick.

[Jorodz]

Rose was a patient technical precision puncher.

:lol:well played

[red cobra]

I'll go out on a limb and say that prime, head to head Jofre vs Olivares would end as a 6 round ko for Jofre.

[WhataRock]

Watching the Castillo fights back to back I think you do see different versions of Ruben.

However perhaps not as much as some make out...Because Chucho was just a straight up quality fighter who still gave a supposedly better conditioned and prepared Olivares another tough encounter in the rematch.

[red cobra]

Jofre just pips Olivares for the no.1 slot IMO and Nat Fleischer's opinion of Jofre always sticks in my mind whenever I consider attempting to rank him. Jofre wrote the book on what it is to be a complete boxer-puncher; it's a crying shame that more extensive footage of his prime years isn't available. The fourth round of the first Jofre-Harada fight is one of my all-time favourites, with Harada initially swarming Jofre to the point of almost completely overwhelming him only for Jofre to then fire back, nailing Harada to body and head with remarkable power and precision.

Does anyone think Jofre could have beaten Wilfredo Gomez? At 122 or 126?
Jofre vs Gomez is the great unanswered question for me...I've got to contemplate that one...

[Tin_Ribs]

this i think we're all agreed upon:D. personally i think a PRIME Jofre would have been more boxer than boxer/puncher and as long as he can handle olivares' power, would time him and control the fight enough to pull out a decision.

This is the intangible that may swing the momentum. Jofre was stung by both Harada and Medel, neither of whom hit like Olivares. Then again, Jofre was a very hard puncher himself, therefore would Olivares be able to handle Jofre's power? He was stopped more than once, though not at his best.

[AlFrancis]

But neither was the Jofre of the Harada fights the same as the 1962 version.

I agree with you and I did say as much before. "maybe I'm not being fair comparing Olivares with Jofre of the Harada fights....."
I think at the time of the second Castillo fight Olivares probably was at his peak. Castillo just brought a style that would always give him problems.

[Jorodz]

Jofre vs Gomez is the great unanswered question for me...I've got to contemplate that one...

i can't even begin to think about that one myself

[Tin_Ribs]

Jofre vs Gomez is the great unanswered question for me...I've got to contemplate that one...

It's a dilemna isn't it :?

[My2Sense]

Does anyone think Jofre could have beaten Wilfredo Gomez? At 122 or 126?

I think possibly so. Gomez's chin was sometimes vulnerable, and he also had something of a tendency to lose discipline and get caught up in slugfests - neither of which would likely do him any favors against Jofre. Jofre was better and more well-rounded than Zarate IMO, and certainly moreso than Pintor. I think Jofre could avoid getting sucked into the kind of trap that Zarate was, and could possibly stop Gomez late.

[AlFrancis]

Hotting up this isn't it

[Tin_Ribs]

I think possibly so. Gomez's chin was sometimes vulnerable, and he also had something of a tendency to lose discipline and get caught up in slugfests - neither of which would likely do him any favors against Jofre. Jofre was better and more well-rounded than Zarate IMO, and certainly moreso than Pintor. I think Jofre could avoid getting sucked into Gomez's kind of fight like Zarate was, and could possibly stop Gomez late.

This was always my train of thought, particularly where Jofre's technical excellence and completeness are concerned. I thought Gomez displayed a pretty good chin and greater discipline prior to being fustigated by Sanchez though.

[My2Sense]

Jofre was stung by both Harada and Medel, neither of whom hit like Olivares.

I'm not so sure about Medel. He was the first (and for a long time, the only) fighter to KO Harada. I think with one punch, he hit at least as hard as Olivares.

[Jorodz]

I think possibly so. Gomez's chin was sometimes vulnerable, and he also had something of a tendency to lose discipline and get caught up in slugfests - neither of which would likely do him any favors against Jofre. Jofre was better and more well-rounded than Zarate IMO, and certainly moreso than Pintor. I think Jofre could avoid getting sucked into Gomez's kind of fight like Zarate was, and could possibly stop Gomez late.

this is absolutely true. Gomez could box when he wanted to but he could get sloppy. The sanchez fight for instance started out with a disciplined boxer/puncher but once he faced stiff resistance (from an admittedly bigger fighter) his gameplan went out the window. The problem is that Gomez, when caught in slugfests, usually won. He was bigger than Jofre and certainly had more one punch power. It comes down I feel to who fights their fight; they're both boxer punchers but Jofre was more technically sound and adaptable. If he can stick to a gameplan of short, straight counters, he could wear gomez down. The problem is at any time bazooka can change the tide and when in full force was an incredible offensive fighter.

[WhataRock]

I think possibly so. Gomez's chin was sometimes vulnerable, and he also had something of a tendency to lose discipline and get caught up in slugfests - neither of which would likely do him any favors against Jofre. Jofre was better and more well-rounded than Zarate IMO, and certainly moreso than Pintor. I think Jofre could avoid getting sucked into the kind of trap that Zarate was, and could possibly stop Gomez late.


Thats just about the most solid argument you are going to get on that discussion.

But on the other hand..The sheer intensity and natural offensive talent of Wilfredo could really offset the solid all around skills of Eder. It does happens quite a lot at this level.

Its just a fight I have a hard time getting my head around as Gomez is near unbeatable at his best, at that weight...But near unbeatable isnt unbeatable and Jofre is certainly one of those fighters who could prove that.

[AlFrancis]

We're talking about real top fighters here, Im sur in a series there could be different outcomes.

[Tin_Ribs]

I'm not so sure about Medel. He was the first (and for a long time, the only) fighter to KO Harada. I think with one punch, he hit at least as hard as Olivares.

Quite possibly, I'll have to look at Medel a bit more extensively; I'd forgotten that he KO'd Harada :patsch. Still, I don't think he put it all together like Olivares in a pure offensive sense, although I know that isn't what you were saying.

[AlFrancis]

I'm not so sure about Medel. He was the first (and for a long time, the only) fighter to KO Harada. I think with one punch, he hit at least as hard as Olivares.

i think Harada was a bit green in that fight' he tried to steamroll Medel who with all his experience and big punch started catching him with big shot's off the ropes. Harada didn't know where he was but he came back a better fighter for it.

[kidargentine]

But neither was the Jofre of the Harada fights the same as the 1962 version.

Jofre had trouble cutting weight, but even wasn't too past his prime. In-fact he came back several years and proved that he was good as ever.

Fighting Harada not only had the style to win but was also tough and one of the greatest boxers ever.

[AlFrancis]

Quite possibly, I'll have to look at Medel a bit more extensively; I'd forgotten that he KO'd Harada :patsch. Still, I don't think he put it all together like Olivares in a pure offensive sense, although I know that isn't what you were saying.

Have a look at the second fight. I had it close and Medel had him rocking in the 15th.
Bit of a dilemma Medel. To me he seemed like one of those top fighters who had maybe a journeyman mentality.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

I would say he was a better fighter than either Castillo and Herrera (Harada?) who didn't IMO opinion beat the peak Olivares but I think I would fancy Olivares...

Agreed.

Jofre's record is sensational. Dominated the bantams for 8 years until Harada beat him twice, both times narrowly. Then went 10 years undefeated as a feather including the scalps of Saldivar & Legra (admittedly both well past prime).

That's gotta put him in the mix with Oliveras, Zarate and Harada. But IMO Oliveras comes first - will never forget his power in the win against Rose.

[Tin_Ribs]

i think Harada was a bit green in that fight' he tried to steamroll Medel who with all his experience and big punch started catching him with big shot's off the ropes. Harada didn't know where he was but he came back a better fighter for it.

Harada set the record straight in the rematch from what I've heard. Medel, however, was an excellent fighter in his own right who was unlucky to come along alomg in such a stacked era. Jofre's powers of recovery were very much in evidence against him.

[Tin_Ribs]

Have a look at the second fight. I had it close and Medel had him rocking in the 15th.
Bit of a dilemma Medel. To me he seemed like one of those top fighters who had maybe a journeyman mentality.

Sorry, didn't catch this before I replied. I'll stick on my to do list.

[Flea Man]

What a pic.

Personally I think he'd outpoint both.

[GPater11093]

It's really hard to say. I wish there was more footage of him. Unfortunate that of only 3 films of him that I know about 2 of them are his only defeats. Looking at the Olivares/ Rose fight it is hard to see anyone living with him at his prime. As we know though styles make fights as Chucho Castillo showed.
How would Jofre deal with 69 Olivares? What would he bring?

There is Harada vs Jofre 1 and 2

Jofre vs Medal 1 - where he wins

Jofre vs Aoki - albeit a 1 punch clip

and the famous Jofre vs Arguello sparring session :deal



I think Olivares would beat him in a series 2-1. But all the fights are close. I like Olivareses footspeed to be the diference as he had quicker feet than Jofre and Jofre would be the one looking to keep it at long range but Olivares who would want it on the inside had the footspeed to do it. I think he could get in like he did vs Rose.

Jofre's long range shots would catch Olivares on the way in and could stun him and hurt him to take rounds but i just think Olivares would be inside too much.

Although saying that Jofre does better on the inside than Olivares on the outside.

It is close aint it.

[teeto]

I really have a hard time picking a winner when it comes to Jofre-Olivares, there's hardly a wrong answer when all is said and done. We only have the one man ever beating Jofre to go off, and how that was done was by the dynamo that was 'Fighting' Harada, with that moving in, letting go plenty of shots in a rapid fashion, and moving back out, even jabbing and moving at times. While i personally think Olivares' footwork is even better than Harada's, i don't know about him fighting the same fight. As much as people will talk about us using an 'on' version of Olivares here, we do know that he can be beaten in fights as well.

Anyway, for the reasons of fairness, i'll talk about the best versions of both. We're going to see the best of the best when it comes to in fighting, Olivares in my opinion is capable of hurting Jofre, but Jofre has them fine cutting edge combos both on the inside and out, and is durable to boot. I'm leaning towards Jofre, i'm picking him if pushed.

On Jofre-Zarate, i don't think enough credit is being given to the formidable fighter the Mexican truly was. I think it would be ultra close, more jabs would be used and a bit of patiently awaited on big shots by both men, and for this reason i see it being maybe even closer than the Olivares fight. Not fought at quite a consistently frantic pace, i don't see Zarate getting a stoppage win so i see Jofre winning by just doing a bit more scoring with the accurate stuff.

Anything can happen in both of these fights, like AlFrancis said, we are talking about top fighters here.

[MrMarvel]

Great fighter but a bit overrated if you call him the Sugar Ray of the bantams. His losses to Harada, and then Harada's loss to Rose gives us the comparison we needed to judge him. He was not a level above Zarate.

[GPater11093]

MrMarval

I think Harada and Rose are top 10 Bantams of all time

good summary Teeto, i just aint seen enough to rank Zarate

[MrMarvel]

MrMarval

I think Harada and Rose are top 10 Bantams of all time

good summary Teeto, i just aint seen enough to rank Zarate

Harada is overrated, too.

[GPater11093]

Harada overrated?

explain please

[Sweet Pea]

They reckon Jofre was the '60s bantamweight version of Ray Robinson. From what I've seen I think I'd agree.Really? I saw very little resemblance between he and Robinson's styles. Both were very well rounded boxer-punchers, but their aesthetic and physical qualities were very different.

He's definitely in contention for a 'best of the best' induction.Definitely among Bantamweights.

[Sweet Pea]

I think he brings everything that Castillo and Herrera brought.Damn, Jofre just has it all doesn't he?

What troubled Olivares with Herrera (outside of his poor conditioning) were the short, compact punches he threw on the inside and during exchanges, which is often what enabled him to beat Olivares to the punch. Castillo on the other hand was more of a boxer-mover with power, quicker with his feet than Jofre. Yes, Jofre had a lot of qualities that would've troubled Olivares (durability, power, body punching) but he doesn't bring "everything" the above fighters bring. I think it's feasible both guys could've given Jofre all he could handle as well, to be honest. They were great fighters, at least as good as someone like Jose Medel, IMO.

[Sweet Pea]

His losses to Harada, and then Harada's loss to Rose gives us the comparison we needed to judge him.:patschFool.

[Sweet Pea]

even though slightly past peak and weight drained, than jofre gives a good indication of the TYPE of fighter that could get to him: a headfirst, aggressive whirlwind puncher. olivares however was more than that. the man could BOX when he had to.I think your impression of Jofre is way off. I'd actually say he was a more skilled technician than Olivares. While Rockabye Ruben could also box very well, I saw Jofre as more of a cool, calm, and collected thinking man's fighter. Perhaps not quite as physically impressive as the more explosive Olivares, but the steadier, more balanced technician. I saw Olivares as more the type to overwhelm his opponents with his relentless approach and dicing combinations. Again, both could box very well, but I very much disagree with your assertion of the two in comparison to one another.

[Sweet Pea]

I think possibly so. Gomez's chin was sometimes vulnerable, and he also had something of a tendency to lose discipline and get caught up in slugfestsA young, prime Gomez was much more disciplined than the latter version.

[GPater11093]

Pea a young Gomez wasnt tested as much against brawlers

[Sweet Pea]

Pea a young Gomez wasnt tested as much against brawlersTrue, but he was tested against a powerful, well-rounded boxer-puncher in Zarate (A test he passed with flying colors, by the way). Jofre himself was not a brawler, but rather a powerful, well rounded boxer-puncher.

[GPater11093]

True, but he was tested against a powerful, well-rounded boxer-puncher in Zarate (A test he passed with flying colors, by the way). Jofre himself was not a brawler, but rather a powerful, well rounded boxer-puncher.

fair point.

[Jorodz]

I think your impression of Jofre is way off. I'd actually say he was a more skilled technician than Olivares. While Rockabye Ruben could also box very well, I saw Jofre as more of a cool, calm, and collected thinking man's fighter. Perhaps not quite as physically impressive as the more explosive Olivares, but the steadier, more balanced technician. I saw Olivares as more the type to overwhelm his opponents with his relentless approach and dicing combinations. Again, both could box very well, but I very much disagree with your assertion of the two in comparison to one another.

oh i absolutely agree that jofre is a better technician than olivares. i was actually comparing harada and olivares, stating that they were similar in aggression but olivaries could box to set up his power when necessary; if he could show the kind of non stop punches that harada did he could trouble jofre. jofre is 100% though technically superior and a more precise boxer/puncher

[Sweet Pea]

oh i absolutely agree that jofre is a better technician than olivares. i was actually comparing harada and olivares

I see. Unfortunately it doesn't change much, as Harada was an excellent boxer himself. Have a look at the first Harada fight on Youtube. He moves, jabs, and boxes beautifully at times, while swarming relentlessly at others. Really a stylistic nightmare for any fighter at his peak. He could pretty much do it all, though he wasn't the puncher the other guys were.

[Jorodz]

I see. Unfortunately it doesn't change much, as Harada was an excellent boxer himself. Have a look at the first Harada fight on Youtube. He moves, jabs, and boxes beautifully at times, while swarming relentlessly at others. Really a stylistic nightmare for any fighter at his peak. He could pretty much do it all, though he wasn't the puncher the other guys were.

damn straight, his jab is one of the best i've ever seen, in both those fights. i think harada was far more than the swarmer he's portrayed as. i just think olivares is as well; more than the greatest puncher in division history i think he had tremendous skills when he utilized them. at his best, he would trouble jofre. not necessarily win but certainly provide a stern test

[DRMULLEN]

dURAN, Started outat 119lbsWhat If.....Duran, you know the one that beat ray and damn near beat marvin ..... stayed at the who beats em? 120s?

[Sweet Pea]

dURAN, Started outat 119lbsWhat If.....Duran, you know the one that beat ray and damn near beat marvin ..... stayed at the who beats em? 120s?:lol:

[Tin_Ribs]

dURAN, Started outat 119lbsWhat If.....Duran, you know the one that beat ray and damn near beat marvin ..... stayed at the who beats em? 120s?

Pardon?

[red cobra]

Harada would have smothered Olivares, and decisioned him with nonstop blizzard punching in my humble and often wrong opinion. Harada w 15 Olivares.

[My2Sense]

There is Harada vs Jofre 1 and 2

Jofre vs Medal 1 - where he wins

Jofre vs Aoki - albeit a 1 punch clip

and the famous Jofre vs Arguello sparring session :deal



His rematch with Medel exists as well.

Here's a clip from it:
ySddl_oyrdk

---------------

The more I think about it, and the more I watch them both, I just can't see Olivares winning. I know people are very much in awe of his performance against Rose (and understandably so), but it's mistake to think he could just "swarm" any fighter like he did to Rose. Rose was more of a defensive boxer and didn't have the kind of style or weapons needed to hurt Olivares and get his respect. Whenever Olivares fought someone that was capable of matching him at close quarters - ie: Castillo, Herrera, Pimentel - he changed his style and boxed much more cautiously. Olivares was also more open to being hit than Jofre (even against Rose) and his chin wasn't quite as solid; in fact, he was down fairly regularly in his title fights. I'd also go out on a limb and say Jofre was mentally tougher and more resilient than Olivares, as IMO Olivares did appear to say "No mas" against Herrera and perhaps a couple other fights.

In a nutshell, Jofre was at least as fast and powerful as Olivares, but also much more technically/defensively sound and was distinctly sturdier and more resilient. I don't see where Olivares would have an advantage here.

[flamengo]

Which one?


The one of you getting driving lessons..... :D

[red cobra]

Yes, Eder Jofre was the greatest bantamweight champion of all time, even if Fighting Harada had his number.

[AlFrancis]

His rematch with Medel exists as well.

Here's a clip from it:
ySddl_oyrdk

---------------

The more I think about it, and the more I watch them both, I just can't see Olivares winning. I know people are very much in awe of his performance against Rose (and understandably so), but it's mistake to think he could just "swarm" any fighter like he did to Rose. Rose was more of a defensive boxer and didn't have the kind of style or weapons needed to hurt Olivares and get his respect. Whenever Olivares fought someone that was capable of matching him at close quarters - ie: Castillo, Herrera, Pimentel - he changed his style and boxed much more cautiously. Olivares was also more open to being hit than Jofre (even against Rose) and his chin wasn't quite as solid; in fact, he was down fairly regularly in his title fights. I'd also go out on a limb and say Jofre was mentally tougher and more resilient than Olivares, as IMO Olivares did appear to say "No mas" against Herrera and perhaps a couple other fights.

In a nutshell, Jofre was at least as fast and powerful as Olivares, but also much more technically/defensively sound and was distinctly sturdier and more resilient. I don't see where Olivares would have an advantage here.


Who's that on the end of the clip?

[AlFrancis]

Here's one of Ruben against the tough former flyweight champ Efren Torres

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[My2Sense]

Who's that on the end of the clip?

Believe it's Jofre against Aoki, not sure though (the Japanese fighter looks almost certainly like Aoki though).

[AlFrancis]

Believe it's Jofre against Aoki, not sure though (the Japanese fighter looks almost certainly like Aoki though).

:good

[AlFrancis]

While we're talking about the 60's bantams. Here's one of my dad I've just uploaded, hope it works

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[GPater11093]

Believe it's Jofre against Aoki, not sure though (the Japanese fighter looks almost certainly like Aoki though).

I have a clip of that fight and all it is is Jofre being punched by 1 punch :lol: