What if Gerry Cooney had somehow gotten lucky against Spinks?

[mr. magoo]

Let's pretend for a moment that Gerry Cooney actually showed up in great shape for the Michael Spinks fight in 1987. Of course, even a top form Cooney probably wouldn't have won, but let's say he landed a big shot and somehow managed to pull off a big win..

What do you think his next step would have been?

- would Mike Tyson have been his next fight, and do you think Cooney would go for it.

- Would he pull another disapearing act for several years, as he often tended to do.

- Would he have fought someone else in the interim, perhaps Biggs or Tucker, or maybe an obscure journeyman?

- Would he have permanantely called it quits?

[Bill1234]

He probably would have gone for the big money fight with Tyson and get beat up, disapear for a while, then have the fight with Foreman, and stay retired.

[mr. magoo]

He probably would have gone for the big money fight with Tyson and get beat up, disapear for a while, then have the fight with Foreman, and stay retired.

A likely scenario.

The kind of purse that a Tyson fight would bring, would be just too tempting to pass up for anyone, even Cooney who probably would have been scared shitless.

[janitor]

Given his life circumstances at the time I think that he would have been either an inactive champion or one who fought verry weak opposition.

He might have gone on like this for a few years and it would not so much have been a matter of who beat him as which of the top fighters got him into the ring first.

When he did take one of them on he would have been cashing out and so the fight would have gone to whoever could have put up the most generous terms.

I have just talked myself into being gratefull that it didnt happen.

[mr. magoo]

Given his life circumstances at the time I think that he would have been either an inactive champion or one who fought verry weak opposition.

He might have gone on like this for a few years and it would not so much have been a matter of who beat him as which of the top fighters got him into the ring first.

When he did take one of them on he would have been cashing out and so the fight would have gone to whoever could have put up the most generous terms.

I have just talked myself into being gratefull that it didnt happen.

Technically, Cooney wouldn't have been the OFFICIAL champ, but the ring magazine and perhaps several other bodies might recognized him as having lineal status. My guess, is that the fans would have demanded a match between he and Tyson, probably following Tyson's unification with Tucker. Such a bout likely would have been scheduled for sometime in either spring or summer of 1988, and would have probably been one of ( if not thee ) most hyped fights of all time. Both Tyson and Cooney would have made as much or more money than the two combatants in Tyson vs Spinks. How would it have gone? Well, I think we can all agree that it would have been a very short night. I do however think that a well trained and motivated Cooney ( if that's what we got ), would at least last longer than 91 seconds.

[Rubber Warrior]

He probably would have gone for the big money fight with Tyson and get beat up, disapear for a while, then have the fight with Foreman, and stay retired.

This is my guess as well.

[Rubber Warrior]

Given his life circumstances at the time I think that he would have been either an inactive champion or one who fought verry weak opposition.

He might have gone on like this for a few years and it would not so much have been a matter of who beat him as which of the top fighters got him into the ring first.

When he did take one of them on he would have been cashing out and so the fight would have gone to whoever could have put up the most generous terms.

I have just talked myself into being gratefull that it didnt happen.

Your scenario might very well serve as the template for David Haye should he ever win a title. In fact, I believe Haye would play FAR more games than many anticipate.

[janitor]

Your scenario might very well serve as the template for David Haye should he ever win a title. In fact, I believe Haye would play FAR more games than many anticipate.

It will be interesting to wait and see.

David Haye has ran at the spikes on the ramparts so far.

At cruiserweight he would have fought a Trex that could have made the weight.

[Rico Spadafora]

Cooney looked horrible against Spinks.

If he would have won he would have been inactive, disappeared for a while then would schedule a fight and pull out with an 'injury'.

His career was HORRIBLY managed.

[kenmore]

He probably would have gone for the big money fight with Tyson and get beat up, disapear for a while, then have the fight with Foreman, and stay retired.

Agreed. Had Cooney beaten Spinks, the demand for a Cooney-Tyson showdown would have been overwhelming. Cooney would have fought Tyson in 1988 and been knocked out. Cooney's purse for this fight would probably be even bigger than what he earned against Holmes in 1982.

[mochabuzz]

Agreed. Had Cooney beaten Spinks, the demand for a Cooney-Tyson showdown would have been overwhelming. Cooney would have fought Tyson in 1988 and been knocked out. Cooney's purse for this fight would probably be even bigger than what he earned against Holmes in 1982.


Its funny to think about how this would be such a huge fight... b/c hindsight has shown cooney to be such a chump... but had he figured out a way to beat Spinks in 1987, he would have faced Tyson is 1988. Somebody mentioned earlier that even a faded and out of shape Cooney would probably have been able to last longer than 91 seconds... & I agree with that statement.

[GazOC]

IMHO Cooney would have either stayed inactive or milked the title with a couple of easy defences before maybe being 'forced' into a Tyson fight 18 months or so down the line.

[zadfrak]

That was a real bad cut Spinks had in the 4th round. An opportunist would've got him out of there on a tko. Cooney didn't and lost instead. No matter. Both guys had a style made to order for a young Tyson and Cooney isn't seeing the end of the 2nd round.

[JohnThomas1]

His career was HORRIBLY managed.

Yes and no. Brilliant in that he got his $10 000 000 payday with not much risk. Bad in that he never learnt his craft as he should have.

Post Holmes tho i don't give Cooney a get out of jail card. Motivation must come from within, and he capitulated. Showed zero heart and determination in getting over a loss.

[mr. magoo]

Yes and no. Brilliant in that he got his $10 000 000 payday with not much risk. Bad in that he never learnt his craft as he should have.

Post Holmes tho i don't give Cooney a get out of jail card. Motivation must come from within, and he capitulated. Showed zero heart and determination in getting over a loss.


Exactly,

I don't blame his managment for his shortcummings.. If he felt that his people weren't doing him any service, then it was his obligation to get rid of them and hire someone else the way that so many other fighters have done. Cooney's inability to have a career post Holmes, was his own making and no one elses. He could have chosen to get his arse into the gym every day and stayed active, even against journeyman if that's what it took to keep him busy in between big fights. But instead, he took an extended vacation from boxing, during which time, was spent drinking, using, sleeping, spending...etc...

[Bigcat]

The Spinks fight wasn't for a title, but Tyson would have been very interested in what kind of revinue that fight may have brought....... Cooney will have probably taken the fight and got caught early and stopped gallantly.. and then hid under a rock for a decade, before coming back for some more loose cash....

[Rubber Warrior]

The Spinks fight wasn't for a title, but Tyson would have been very interested in what kind of revinue that fight may have brought....... Cooney will have probably taken the fight and got caught early and stopped gallantly.. and then hid under a rock for a decade, before coming back for some more loose cash....

The Tyson camp was historically keen to the value of defeating Spinks despite no alphabet title. They knew he was the linear champ, and having THAT sense of history, they were after "the man". If Cooney had of beaten Spinks, Tyson's management would have gone after him, rest assured. The money would have been monumental, but they ALWAYS knew what they were after, conventional thinking and alphabet marketing aside.

[GazOC]

As RB says, Tyson and his managment were very concerned over the 'historical' aspect and would have wanted to fight Cooney ASAP to clear up any doubt.

[Titan1]

Gerry fights Tyson and gets the serious coldcock.

[Mendoza]

He probably would have gone for the big money fight with Tyson and get beat up, disapear for a while, then have the fight with Foreman, and stay retired.

I think so too. But team Cooney would have to push him out of his own dressing room to get him in the ring with Tyson.

[Bummy Davis]

I think so too. But team Cooney would have to push him out of his own dressing room to get him in the ring with Tyson.


Gerry had balls, he lacked confidence and had a serious drug habit prior to the Holmes fight and he fought 2 rds in 2 years leading up to Holmes....His brother Tom had a serious habit and Gerry was not far behind..he also was a drinker and had a lot of ladies on him....he did not really have the hunger and was over protected by the wacko twins for the big bucks and he knew it....but he did get the big payday...He went in a threw down vs Foreman and would have done the same with Tyson. Gerry was going out on his sheild

[The Mighty One]

He would have gone to Disney World.

[Rico Spadafora]

Gerry had balls, he lacked confidence and had a serious drug habit prior to the Holmes fight and he fought 2 rds in 2 years leading up to Holmes....His brother Tom had a serious habit and Gerry was not far behind..he also was a drinker and had a lot of ladies on him....he did not really have the hunger and was over protected by the wacko twins for the big bucks and he knew it....but he did get the big payday...He went in a threw down vs Foreman and would have done the same with Tyson. Gerry was going out on his sheild


I could never figure out if the drug/alcohol problems were before or after the Holmes fight. That having been inactive for 13 months prior to the Holmes fight was idiotic by his management the guy had fought something like 5 rounds in 3 years or something like that. Can't prepare for a big fight with that amount of inactivity.

[Bigcat]

When Gerry was preparing to box Big George in that fight in AC.. I just couldn't understand the logic in Gerry just having one behind closed doors tune up... George was BIG News and in order to stage a decent moneyspinning comeback it would have made sense to slaughter a few characters to whooop up tickets at least.. Wesley P Watson in a locked up Gym in NY somewhere only got Gerry cheap sparring...

[Rubber Warrior]

It will be interesting to wait and see.

David Haye has ran at the spikes on the ramparts so far.

At cruiserweight he would have fought a Trex that could have made the weight.

That's the problem. With Haye it is ALL about the "wait" part. :rasta

[MRBILL]

Gerry Cooney did land a few thudding shots to Spinks in '87..... Its just that Gerry boy couldn't follow-up cause he was rusty as a door nail......

Gerry boy got iced in round 5 from a wicked barrage of shots............ I lost $$$ on that KO............. I thought Gerry boy would dust Spinks........
:scaredas:

MR.BILL

[Jorodz]

Gerry cooney is still one of the great what if's in boxing, at least of the past 30 years:

1)Wicked left hook-it was a monster
2)Terrific jab-he was damn near holding his own in the early and mid rounds against holmes, no easy feat
3)Heart-as stated above, big heart

He had many tools but inept management, distasteful racial undertones thrust upon him and alcohol problems negated any potential.

Had he gotten lucky against spinks, not out of the realm of possibility if he had TRAINED, we would have seen him against tyson. and 20 minutes later, we would have seen him in the hospital. i don't see him coming back after that, even against foreman who was a murderous puncher

[Rubber Warrior]

BTW - watch the bout closely and you'll see Spinks deliver - time and again - one of THE most effective and hurtful left jabs in that one. Watch it. It was the sort of jab that would, I'm sure, draw a tip of the hat from Holmes, Liston, Foreman, et al.

[Stevie G]

If Cooney had managed to stop Spinks,I could envisage his next opponent a comebacking Larry Holmes. Think about it. Holmes would want the fight as he would be having his first fight for coming on two years against a guy he'd previously beaten. Also,as Cooney had beaten Spinks,larry would see a victory as indirectly wiping out the bad taste of his controversial loss to Michael. Cooney would n't be able to resist the fight because of the big bucks that he would get. As for what would happen ? In spite of Holmes being 38 and rusty,Cooney because of all sorts of problems,would have deteriorated just as much as Larry had,and as Holmes was so dominant in their 1982 bout,he would be just as much superior in 1987/88. Cooney would lose,probably by a lop-sided decision.

[mr. magoo]

I could never figure out if the drug/alcohol problems were before or after the Holmes fight. That having been inactive for 13 months prior to the Holmes fight was idiotic by his management the guy had fought something like 5 rounds in 3 years or something like that. Can't prepare for a big fight with that amount of inactivity.


In one of his interviews several years ago, he said that Don King owned most of the top fighters in the division, and Cooney couldn't get any big marquee opponents. Apparently, he was also negotiating to fight Mike Weaver, but Bob Arum talked ( or bribed ) the WBA into giving James Tillis a shot instead.

[Rico Spadafora]

In one of his interviews several years ago, he said that Don King owned most of the top fighters in the division, and Cooney couldn't get any big marquee opponents. Apparently, he was also negotiating to fight Mike Weaver, but Bob Arum talked ( or bribed ) the WBA into giving James Tillis a shot instead.


Weaver for the WBA belt would have been a much better choice then he could have fought Holmes in 1983. I don't think Rappaport and Jones wanted to risk their golden goose against anyone before they could get that Holmes payday.

[mr. magoo]

Weaver for the WBA belt would have been a much better choice then he could have fought Holmes in 1983. I don't think Rappaport and Jones wanted to risk their golden goose against anyone before they could get that Holmes payday.


I think Cooney's people were really pushing for the Weaver fight. Had it come off, it probably would have been sometime in the late fall of 1981. Cooney had a good chance against Weaver in my opinion. Mike was a very slow starter who sometimes got in trouble early in fights, while Cooney was most dangerous in the first 3-4 rounds. Gerry also had a significant height and weight advantage. I wouldn't be surprised if a fight like that ended in similar fashion to the Lyle and Norton bouts...

[Bad_Intentions]

He probably would have gone for the big money fight with Tyson and get beat up, disapear for a while, then have the fight with Foreman, and stay retired.
:good:yep

[Stevie G]

I think Cooney's people were really pushing for the Weaver fight. Had it come off, it probably would have been sometime in the late fall of 1981. Cooney had a good chance against Weaver in my opinion. Mike was a very slow starter who sometimes got in trouble early in fights, while Cooney was most dangerous in the first 3-4 rounds. Gerry also had a significant height and weight advantage. I wouldn't be surprised if a fight like that ended in similar fashion to the Lyle and Norton bouts...
I agree. It would have been a smarter fight for Cooney at that stage of his career. He could afford to have waited for a Holmes bout.

[dmille]

$$$,$$$,$$$

[MRBILL]

I lost 25 bucks on Cooney in 1987.......... I thought that Cooney was too big and powerful for Mikey Spinks at the time..........

The overall fight was good............. Cooney did come to fight, but he was rusty and off-key compared to the sharp as nails Spinks Jinx..........

I was stunned when Cooney hit the deck 2 X in rd 5........ But I guess it was coming......... My initial bet was Cooney inside of 4 rds............ I was wrong..... Spinks hammered Cooney bad in the 5th........... Peace...

MR.BILL:bbb:deal

[Bummy Davis]

I think Cooney's people were really pushing for the Weaver fight. Had it come off, it probably would have been sometime in the late fall of 1981. Cooney had a good chance against Weaver in my opinion. Mike was a very slow starter who sometimes got in trouble early in fights, while Cooney was most dangerous in the first 3-4 rounds. Gerry also had a significant height and weight advantage. I wouldn't be surprised if a fight like that ended in similar fashion to the Lyle and Norton bouts...


Gerry had a much better chance vs Weaver for the resons you state and it may have been a needed confidence builder. Look what confidence did for fighters like Weaver after Holmes 1...Gerry had balls but lacked confidence...people that know Gerry's history can understand why he did.

[MRBILL]

Gerry had a much better chance vs Weaver for the resons you state and it may have been a needed confidence builder. Look what confidence did for fighters like Weaver after Holmes 1...Gerry had balls but lacked confidence...people that know Gerry's history can understand why he did.

Bum,

OOOHHH!! Ouch........ Cooney was psyched after kayoing Norton in '81...... Yet, it 'twas misleading....... Larry Holmes brought team Cooney back down to Earth in 1982........

But yes, I agree 100%......... Cooney would've KO'd Mike Weaver in 1982.......

Holmes was too GREAT to lose to Cooney in 1982.......

Even though Cooney was rich and banging bitches and doin' lines of coke in 1986 / '87, I still thought he'd pound Mike Spinks enroute to a 4th round KO in 1987........ I lost money in a pool at work...... ARGH!!
:twisted::patsch

MR.BILL:thumbsup

[kenmore]

Let's pretend for a moment that Gerry Cooney actually showed up in great shape for the Michael Spinks fight in 1987. Of course, even a top form Cooney probably wouldn't have won, but let's say he landed a big shot and somehow managed to pull off a big win..

What do you think his next step would have been?

- would Mike Tyson have been his next fight, and do you think Cooney would go for it.

- Would he pull another disapearing act for several years, as he often tended to do.

- Would he have fought someone else in the interim, perhaps Biggs or Tucker, or maybe an obscure journeyman?

- Would he have permanantely called it quits?

The Cooney who beat Jimmy Young, Ron Lyle, and Ken Norton may indeed have beaten Mike Spinks. It's also possible that if Cooney had only had two or three tune ups in the year prior to fighting Spinks, he may have won. I'm not saying for sure, but it could have happened.

Anyway, if Cooney had beaten Spinks -- because of superior skill or because of a wild, lucky punch -- his next bout would have been Tyson. No two ways about it.

The consumer demand for Tyson vs. Cooney would have been too huge, plain and simple. There is no way that Cooney -- if he had beaten Spinks -- could have walked away from all that money.

[kenmore]

Weaver for the WBA belt would have been a much better choice then he could have fought Holmes in 1983. I don't think Rappaport and Jones wanted to risk their golden goose against anyone before they could get that Holmes payday.

You hit the nail on the head.

[Bummy Davis]

Bum,

OOOHHH!! Ouch........ Cooney was psyched after kayoing Norton in '81...... Yet, it 'twas misleading....... Larry Holmes brought team Cooney back down to Earth in 1982........

But yes, I agree 100%......... Cooney would've KO'd Mike Weaver in 1982.......

Holmes was too GREAT to lose to Cooney in 1982.......

Even though Cooney was rich and banging bitches and doin' lines of coke in 1986 / '87, I still thought he'd pound Mike Spinks enroute to a 4th round KO in 1987........ I lost money in a pool at work...... ARGH!!
:twisted::patsch

MR.BILL:thumbsup


The wacko twins were smart they went for the money they knew Gerry had substance problems his brother checked into rehab and Gerry had the same problems. I happen to know Cooney at the time and people close around him. Gerry was a mess. Gerry's father used to belittle him and tell him how worthless he was...Gerry never really thought of him self as worthy and he did have some losses in the lightheavyweight division a tko loss to Johnny Davis but I saw Cooney win as a middleweight and southpaw( great power) but Gerry was fragile on the recieving end. It was Holmes best win. Geryy was gangly but his left arm was freakish. I saw many of his fights and can attest to his power but he had one arm and was frail but may have had a shot to take a title had it not been a top form and carefull Holmes.

[sweetsci]

I think I've told this story here before, but I was in the Navy and out at sea when Spinks-Cooney happened. After the fight the rumor around the ship (who knows how these things get started!) was that Cooney had KO'd Spinks in the second and had broken his jaw severely in the process. So for several hours that was my reality. I felt really sorry for Spinks but just knew he shouldn't have been in the ring with a big hard-hitting guy like Cooney. Now, imagine my surprise when the real result came through...

Hindsight is 20/20, but the above result isn't too far-fetched considering that the only loss he'd suffered was the gallant effort against Holmes, had knocked almost everyone else out impressively, and that Spinks would be crushed in a similar manner against Tyson a year later.

Had Cooney won like that, Tyson-Cooney would've been enormous. Perhaps Cooney's confidence would have risen (was he over-confident against Spinks, or was he just too messed up to train properly?) and he would've trained well and gone in ready, or perhaps his existing emotional problems would've led to cancellations and lack of confidence going in. Either way, I think, a 1988 Tyson would've gotten Cooney out of there within three rounds.

[MRBILL]

I think I've told this story here before, but I was in the Navy and out at sea when Spinks-Cooney happened. After the fight the rumor around the ship (who knows how these things get started!) was that Cooney had KO'd Spinks in the second and had broken his jaw severely in the process. So for several hours that was my reality. I felt really sorry for Spinks but just knew he shouldn't have been in the ring with a big hard-hitting guy like Cooney. Now, imagine my surprise when the real result came through...

Hindsight is 20/20, but the above result isn't too far-fetched considering that the only loss he'd suffered was the gallant effort against Holmes, had knocked almost everyone else out impressively, and that Spinks would be crushed in a similar manner against Tyson a year later.

Had Cooney won like that, Tyson-Cooney would've been enormous. Perhaps Cooney's confidence would have risen (was he over-confident against Spinks, or was he just too messed up to train properly?) and he would've trained well and gone in ready, or perhaps his existing emotional problems would've led to cancellations and lack of confidence going in. Either way, I think, a 1988 Tyson would've gotten Cooney out of there within three rounds.

Cooney was 238 and tanned going into the '87 fight with Spinks....... Cooney looked strong, but his skills were rust as hell.........

Against Foreman in 1990, Cooney looked gaunt at 231 pounds and was pale as a ghost......
:admin

MR.BILL

[kenmore]

The wacko twins were smart they went for the money they knew Gerry had substance problems his brother checked into rehab and Gerry had the same problems. I happen to know Cooney at the time and people close around him. Gerry was a mess. Gerry's father used to belittle him and tell him how worthless he was...Gerry never really thought of him self as worthy and he did have some losses in the lightheavyweight division a tko loss to Johnny Davis but I saw Cooney win as a middleweight and southpaw( great power) but Gerry was fragile on the recieving end. It was Holmes best win. Geryy was gangly but his left arm was freakish. I saw many of his fights and can attest to his power but he had one arm and was frail but may have had a shot to take a title had it not been a top form and carefull Holmes.

Since you are a New Yorker who watched Cooney live as an amateur, I am curious about something. Did you manage to see Cooney's amateur kayo over the Soviet Nikolai Aksyonov? It was held in MSG in the fall of 1975. It was a team meeting between USA and USSR heavyweight squads, telecast live by ABC.
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Cooney won via a classic, one punch kayo in the first round. Left hook to the jaw. Aksyonov was a top notch, tough and highly seasoned fighter, too.

[Body Head]

well his claim to fame was beating and old past prime Lyle and Norton....Cooney was never that good. He would have never beat Spinks.

He did have nice power tho, ya i guess you could call him a "What if"

[he grant]

He would have fought Tyson for a thirty million split and gotten KO'ed in one round.