Let's Look At John Ruiz For A Second..................

[A-50]

Since it seems there are many people here who think Ruiz was a fighter that fought within the rules and has such a great resume let's look at him for a second.


KOed by Tua in 19 seconds

Lost to not one but TWO former Middleweights (Jones/Toney)

His style was so boring and pathetic it caused a referee to make a mercy stoppage versus Oquendo for the fans (I can never remember seeing this since)

Has to fake low blows to beat Kirk Johnson (pathetic)

Glass Jaw Roy Jones handpicks you to win a Heavyweight Paper Title (this should be the real evidence that Ruiz is horrible)

The only reason Ruiz "won" a belt was King thought he could create a Latino PPV Heavyweight star to the huge Latino fanbase, too bad the fighter he picked for this was boring and just basically a club fighter. King's plan backfired.


Ruiz is a terrible fighter with a cheating "style" end of story. :smoke

[aliwasthegreatest]

um.....ok? whats your point. fact is he has one of the better resume's of active HWs sure he was boring and irritating to watch. but hey to each there own.

[Amsterdam]

Spot on A-50.:good

When's the chin list update coming?

[Claypole]

Ruiz is a terrible fighter with a cheating "style" end of story. :smoke But you like him apart from that?

[A-50]

um.....ok? whats your point. fact is he has one of the better resume's of active HWs sure he was boring and irritating to watch. but hey to each there own.


the point is his resume is shit. It is garbage.

[Amsterdam]

the point is his resume is shit. It is garbage.

Most don't count losses in a resume, I do however.

[Amsterdam]

Oh, another one joins the "not-to-be-taken-serious"-club alongside Zakman and Amsterdam.

Why am I not to be taken serious? Because I tell it like it is and you don't like it?:yep

[A-50]

Why am I not to be taken serious? Because I tell it like it is and you don't like it?:yep

Many people here have agendas.

[lefthook31]

the point is his resume is shit. It is garbage.

If his resume is garbage, Vitali Klitschko's is a step below garbage right?:good

[EpsilonAxis]

Ok, let's look at it based on what actually happened...

Lost in 19 seconds to Tua.
Went 1-1-1 with Holyfield (i thought he won 2 of those fights, however).
BEAT Kirk Johnson after Johnson VICIOUSLY lowblowed him 4+ times.
Beat Fres Oquendo convincingly.
Lost to RJJ.
Beat Hasim Rahman convincingly.
Beat Andrew Golota.
NC against Toney who tested positive for drug use.
Lost to Valuev in controversial fashion.
Lost to Chagaev in non-controversial fashion.

Overall, he has fought a great list of fighters. All your allegations are proofless. He's a guy who could always go 12 tough rounds, and who never had a single tuneup fight for 5+ years. VERY few fighters have fought on the highest echelon of the division so consistently.

[The Kurgan]

Like I want to look at Ruiz again. :roll:

[A-50]

Ok, let's look at it based on what actually happened...

Lost in 19 seconds to Tua.
Went 1-1-1 with Holyfield (i thought he won 2 of those fights, however).
BEAT Kirk Johnson after Johnson VICIOUSLY lowblowed him 4+ times.
Beat Fres Oquendo convincingly.
Lost to RJJ.
Beat Hasim Rahman convincingly.
Beat Andrew Golota.
NC against Toney who tested positive for drug use.
Lost to Valuev in controversial fashion.
Lost to Chagaev in non-controversial fashion.



Overall, he has fought a great list of fighters. All your allegations are proofless. He's a guy who could always go 12 tough rounds, and who never had a single tuneup fight for 5+ years. VERY few fighters have fought on the highest echelon of the division so consistently.


He did not beat Rahman convincingly or Oquendo. Up until the referee mercy stoppage against Oquendo, I could not even score a round in that fight there was so much holding, grabbing, and hugging going on. Same for the Rahman fight, way to much holding and grabbing to even score the damn rounds. What a farce both those fights were.

[mightyd40]

i cant make it the full second without getting bored out of my mind so i will pass

[Guru_Too_You]

He did not beat Rahman convincingly or Oquendo. Up until the referee mercy stoppage against Oquendo, I could not even score a round in that fight there was so much holding, grabbing, and hugging going on. Same for the Rahman fight, way to much holding and grabbing to even score the damn rounds. What a farce both those fights were.

But just because you don't like the way a fight was fought doesnt mean you can discredit the win.

[yoshimura]

ha haha I love it how the Ruiz fans always claim that after Golota destroyed him for two rounds, 'he made a comeback winning the next eight'.

Did Ruiz not 'win' those rounds by initiating more clinches than throwing punches???

If so, how is this boxing?

Also, how was it that he got a pont taken away for holding at the begining and then, as the holding increased, no more points were taken?

[KayEpps]

John Ruiz does have an impressive resume' - regardless to who boring he is/was.

And he's the first and only Latino Heavyweight Champ - so that's something that can never be taken from him.

[Carlos Primera]

nut huggers are overating ruiz to make him a big win for rjj.

[2ironmt]

Ok, let's look at it based on what actually happened...

Lost in 19 seconds to Tua.
Went 1-1-1 with Holyfield (i thought he won 2 of those fights, however).
BEAT Kirk Johnson after Johnson VICIOUSLY lowblowed him 4+ times.
Beat Fres Oquendo convincingly.
Lost to RJJ.
Beat Hasim Rahman convincingly.
Beat Andrew Golota.
NC against Toney who tested positive for drug use.
Lost to Valuev in controversial fashion.
Lost to Chagaev in non-controversial fashion.

Overall, he has fought a great list of fighters. All your allegations are proofless. He's a guy who could always go 12 tough rounds, and who never had a single tuneup fight for 5+ years. VERY few fighters have fought on the highest echelon of the division so consistently. i watched the oquendo fight and he didn't win convincingly by any stretch of imagination. from my recollection the best way to describe most of the above fights were Ruiz was competitive w/ Oquendo, Golota, Rahman, Chagaev, and Valuev and either got some close, some disputed wins and losses in some rather boring fights. He has fought a GOOD list of heavyweights (meaning compared to other active hw's his resume stacks up well and has fought a lot of guys, but he hasn't fought really any great hws). Ruiz has been a competitive fighter with the top of the division over the past 6 years or so and the division hasn't been stellar, but that is an accomplishment. All this being said any non Vitali hater would have to admit that VK is the more dominant hw and his resume stacks up with (and IMO is better) Ruiz's although Ruiz might have fought one or two more solid hw's. You cannot ignore how a fighter has performed in their fights (even against good hws) not just who might have eeked out a controversial decision etc. Also any non delusional human would realize that VK would absolutely dominate Ruiz head to head.

[A-50]

nut huggers are overating ruiz to make him a big win for rjj.

that is a whole issue by itself, Glass Jaw Roy handpicked Ruiz becuase he was the worst beltholder at the time. Then ole Glass Jaw tried to tell us he was fighting a man "50 pounds" (a lie) more than him and tried to make Ruiz out to be some knockout artist when in reality his last KO before the Jones fight was 1998!

[Zakman]

Oh, another one joins the "not-to-be-taken-serious"-club alongside Zakman and Amsterdam.
No - what's not to be taken seriously are fans who ignore the BLATANT and repeated cheating that Ruiz engaged in from the moment King manuevered him into contention. Excessive holding is illegal, and faking low blows is just out and out DISGRACEFUL.:nono

Fans who give credibility to this blatant cheater are sanctioning the corruption of the sport by manipulators like Don King. Without King, Ruiz would have been lucky to win a regional belt, let alone a world title. That some fans applaud this sort of chicanery is, frankly, sickening. :barf

[the_what]

Ruiz is a pimp. And a future Hall of Famer :happy

[Shotgun]

The Ruiz Fraud is one of the biggest disgraces to the sport in the past 10 years. It was the definition of everything wrong with boxing

[rodney]

Ruiz managed to win a title and make a few bucks.
Not pretty to watch --- painful at times.
But there were people out willing to pay to watch him fight.
Ruiz was smart enough to take the money.

[Axe]

The Ruiz Fraud is one of the biggest disgraces to the sport in the past 10 years. It was the definition of everything wrong with boxing

:good

[MrSmall]

Yeah, that was about enough.

[lefthook31]

I dont think there is anyone who can say they are actually a Ruiz fan. With that being said, the guy accomplished more than anyone ever expected, and a lot more than some of the most popular heavyweights and fighters that so many on this site tout greatness too. Thats about all you can say about Ruiz.

[kg0208]

Many people here have agendas.
Looked in the mirror much?

Your whole life on this message board is trying to discredit RJJ....wonder if it's the DM complex?

[A-50]

Looked in the mirror much?

Your whole life on this message board is trying to discredit RJJ....wonder if it's the DM complex?


I have never seen a whole DM fight and do not care for him.

[kg0208]

I have never seen a whole DM fight and do not care for him.

Well then, at least you didn't deny you have the agenda of discrediting Jones. Cuz that would be a lie.

You still like to bend reality for Euro fighters.

[Amsterdam]

Looked in the mirror much?

Your whole life on this message board is trying to discredit RJJ....wonder if it's the DM complex?

A-50 has the Calzaghe eccentricity actually.:yep

It's forgiveable...

[standing 8]

that is a whole issue by itself, Glass Jaw Roy handpicked Ruiz becuase he was the worst beltholder at the time. Then ole Glass Jaw tried to tell us he was fighting a man "50 pounds" (a lie) more than him and tried to make Ruiz out to be some knockout artist when in reality his last KO before the Jones fight was 1998!


Jones wanted to fight Michael Moorer before the Ruiz fight back in the late '90's and Moorer turned him down. I think that the main reason Jones wanted the match with Ruiz was because he was one of the smaller champions in the Heavyweight division.

[lefthook31]

that is a whole issue by itself, Glass Jaw Roy handpicked Ruiz becuase he was the worst beltholder at the time. Then ole Glass Jaw tried to tell us he was fighting a man "50 pounds" (a lie) more than him and tried to make Ruiz out to be some knockout artist when in reality his last KO before the Jones fight was 1998!

Why do you keep calling him glass jaw Roy? Roy Jones was basically a middleweight or super middleweight tops. To accomplish what he accomplished fighting at LH alone is huge. To fight any legit heavy, and Ruiz certainly proved he is legit, is something that is rarely seen. Ruiz dropped guys like Holyfield and Kirk Johnson, so its not like hes feather fisted. Every fighter handpicks opponents, and yes Ruiz was the easiest target, but still the odds only slightly favored Jones at fight time, and many so called experts believed Roy would be steam rolled by Ruiz. Roy's chin certainly got worse after putting his body through the weight and muscle gains and losses from his move up and down, but during his reign as undisputed LH champ, he certainly proved he could take a decent shot from a bigger guy. If you cant recognize that, go back and watch some Roy Jones fights starting when he was a MIDDLEWEIGHT, and watch how he dominated all the way through LIGHT HEAVYWEIGHT, ignoramous.

[kg0208]

Jones wanted to fight Michael Moorer before the Ruiz fight back in the late '90's and Moorer turned him down. I think that the main reason Jones wanted the match with Ruiz was because he was one of the smaller champions in the Heavyweight division.
It is. And Lennox Lewis publicly said that Jones offered him 25 million to fight after he beat Ruiz, but Lewis turned it down and told Jones he was unsure of his plans. So he obviously was looking to fight the real champ as well, though he would have lost.

[Amsterdam]

It is. And Lennox Lewis publicly said that Jones offered him 25 million to fight after he beat Ruiz, but Lewis turned it down and told Jones he was unsure of his plans. So he obviously was looking to fight the real champ as well, though he would have lost.

I'd have given Jones a good shot at Byrd, which coupled with his win over Ruiz would have been something special in this era.

[kg0208]

I'd have given Jones a good shot at Byrd, which coupled with his win over Ruiz would have been something special in this era.

No idea why he didn't fight Byrd. No excuses here....I just don't know. Maybe no money in it? Maybe he thought he would lose? Who knows.

[Amsterdam]

No idea why he didn't fight Byrd. No excuses here....I just don't know. Maybe no money in it? Maybe he thought he would lose? Who knows.

Had to be money, I think next to Ruiz, Byrd was Jones' most likely fight to win at HW. It would have at least solidified him in his HW attempt, just because Ruiz was just a poor champion, even though highly ranked with wins.

Jones/Lennox would have been an absurd mismatch.

Tell you what though, Jones could have easily beaten Rahman. He could have been a real HW contender, depending. And I also wouldn't have picked any of the CW's over Jones, maybe it would have benefitted him to pick up the Cruiser belt before draining back down to milk dud.

[lefthook31]

Had to be money, I think next to Ruiz, Byrd was Jones' most likely fight to win at HW. It would have at least solidified him in his HW attempt, just because Ruiz was just a poor champion, even though highly ranked with wins.

Jones/Lennox would have been an absurd mismatch.

Tell you what though, Jones could have easily beaten Rahman. He could have been a real HW contender, depending. And I also wouldn't have picked any of the CW's over Jones, maybe it would have benefitted him to pick up the Cruiser belt before draining back down to milk dud.

I can agree with this, but really Jones should have retired after winning the heavyweight title. He had already beaten Tarver, even though it was somewhat controversially,and won titles from middle to heavy. He definitely tarnished his career by going on. I can actually see Trinidad beating him too, which would really be a sad sight.

[A-50]

Well then, at least you didn't deny you have the agenda of discrediting Jones. Cuz that would be a lie.

You still like to bend reality for Euro fighters.


False. The ONLY Euro fighter I like is Vitali Klitschko. I also like Calzaghe but do not consider him a "Euro" fighter. Also, Roy Jones has a Glass Jaw and handpicked fighters his whole damn career. Those are Facts. Seems like you are one of his nuthugger fans that can't accept the fact that he ducked anyone with power, never took a risk, and priced himself out of every big fight because he knew he would get KOed.

[A-50]

It is. And Lennox Lewis publicly said that Jones offered him 25 million to fight after he beat Ruiz, but Lewis turned it down and told Jones he was unsure of his plans. So he obviously was looking to fight the real champ as well, though he would have lost.

BS. Jones said he would fight Lennox for 50 million dollars. So Jones was going to make 50 million and the legit Heavyweight Champ was going to make 25 million? LOL.

[kg0208]

False. The ONLY Euro fighter I like is Vitali Klitschko. I also like Calzaghe but do not consider him a "Euro" fighter. Also, Roy Jones has a Glass Jaw and handpicked fighters his whole damn career. Those are Facts. Seems like you are one of his nuthugger fans that can't accept the fact that he ducked anyone with power, never took a risk, and priced himself out of every big fight because he knew he would get KOed.
No, not false. I see you push Euro fighters constantly. Calzaghe not a Euro fighter? Is he from Africa?

I don't care about your opinion of Jones because honestly, its an outright lie and you can't prove a word of it. You're hatred bugs you and it's why you constantly bitch about Jones.

Opinions are facts, but you can go through life thinking that if it helps you sleep at night.

You have a pretty pathetic point of view....and you can't call anyone nuthugger after posting that Vitali should get the Ring title after not having fought in years.

[kg0208]

BS. Jones said he would fight Lennox for 50 million dollars. So Jones was going to make 50 million and the legit Heavyweight Champ was going to make 25 million? LOL.

Tell Lennox Lewis that....just cuz Jones said something publicly doesn't mean that was the offer presented at the table. Most remember Lewis' statement. If you don't know about it, mark it down as another thing in life you don't know.

[A-50]

No, not false. I see you push Euro fighters constantly.

I don't care about your opinion of Jones because honestly, its an outright lie and you can't prove a word of it. You're hatred bugs you and it's why you constantly bitch about Jones.

Opinions are facts, but you can go through life thinking that if it helps you sleep at night.

Which Euro fighters do I push? I would like to see some evidence.

[Loufatski]

Since it seems there are many people here who think Ruiz was a fighter that fought within the rules and has such a great resume let's look at him for a second.


KOed by Tua in 19 seconds

Lost to not one but TWO former Middleweights (Jones/Toney)

His style was so boring and pathetic it caused a referee to make a mercy stoppage versus Oquendo for the fans (I can never remember seeing this since)

Has to fake low blows to beat Kirk Johnson (pathetic)

Glass Jaw Roy Jones handpicks you to win a Heavyweight Paper Title (this should be the real evidence that Ruiz is horrible)

The only reason Ruiz "won" a belt was King thought he could create a Latino PPV Heavyweight star to the huge Latino fanbase, too bad the fighter he picked for this was boring and just basically a club fighter. King's plan backfired.


Ruiz is a terrible fighter with a cheating "style" end of story. :smoke

Any watch Ruiz fight Golota?? I've never seen so much holding in my life!! Golota won the fight, and they gave it to Ruiz!! UGGHHHHHHHH!

[A-50]

Tell Lennox Lewis that....just cuz Jones said something publicly doesn't mean that was the offer presented at the table. Most remember Lewis' statement. If you don't know about it, mark it down as another thing in life you don't know.

What I remember was an interview by Max Kellerman on the Best Damn Sports Show (when Kellerman was with Fox) and he asked Jones if he would fight Lennox and the answer was 50 million. Lennox would have KOed Glass Jaw Roy with a jab.

[lefthook31]

False. The ONLY Euro fighter I like is Vitali Klitschko. I also like Calzaghe but do not consider him a "Euro" fighter. Also, Roy Jones has a Glass Jaw and handpicked fighters his whole damn career. Those are Facts. Seems like you are one of his nuthugger fans that can't accept the fact that he ducked anyone with power, never took a risk, and priced himself out of every big fight because he knew he would get KOed.

How can you like Vitali? He is the king of handpicking opponents, quitting in fights, and postponing fights. Calzahge hasnt fought anyone close to the caliber of Jones Jr comp. You must not see too many fights.

[kg0208]

Which Euro fighters do I push? I would like to see some evidence.

You just named 2.

The majority of your posts are spent saying Jones has a glass jaw.

You like facts? You produce evidence, outside your opinion, that I cannot contradict that Jones had a glass jaw his entire career and handpicked his opponents. You won't be able to. I have asked you before and all you do is go on and on about Jones not fighting anybody, where as I can produce a list of the fighters he fought and proved they were top 10 fighters or champions.

[kg0208]

What I remember was an interview by Max Kellerman on the Best Damn Sports Show (when Kellerman was with Fox) and he asked Jones if he would fight Lennox and the answer was 50 million. Lennox would have KOed Glass Jaw Roy with a jab.

Blah blah....only a few guys like you push the Glass Jaw bit. Funny how you can ignore his first 50 fights just to use 2 of them at age 34 to prove you knew something all along, despite evidence to the contrary.

As I said....Lewis said the offer was for 25 million. Even if it was MORE, Lewis acknowledged the offer. And that was the point now wasn't it?

[A-50]

You just named 2.

The majority of your posts are spent saying Jones has a glass jaw.

You like facts? You produce evidence, outside your opinion, that I cannot contradict that Jones had a glass jaw his entire career and handpicked his opponents. You won't be able to. I have asked you before and all you do is go on and on about Jones not fighting anybody, where as I can produce a list of the fighters he fought and proved they were top 10 fighters or champions.


you were acting like I only push Euro fighters which I do not. Quit trying to spin this. Out of all the fighters around today and I like 2 Euro's and that makes me someone who pushes Euro fighters? :huh

Jones was knocked down by Lou Del Valle for christ sakes, the issue is nobody landed a flush punch on that Glass Jaw and you saw what happened when they did and nighter guy was a power puncher.

[kg0208]

you were acting like I only push Euro fighters which I do not. Quit trying to spin this. Out of all the fighters around today and I like 2 Euro's and that makes me someone who pushes Euro fighters? :huh

Jones was knocked down by Lou Del Valle for christ sakes, the issue is nobody landed a flush punch on that Glass Jaw and you saw what happened when they did and nighter guy was a power puncher.
No spin...where did I say you ONLY push Euro fighters. I said you push Euro fighters constantly. Not that you only push them. Don't try to add meaning to my words where there is none. I have seen you mention more than 2, but honestly, considering you never come back with proof of anything any time I ask you to in a cordial debate, I can't be bothered doing it for you.

Like I said, you spend most of your posts that I see saying Jones has a glass jaw.

Jones had a flash KD against Del Valle and got up at the count of 5.

Ruiz, Hopkins, Toney all landed flush. Jones never flinched. To say no one landed a punch on his jaw in 50 fights is absurd, and again, is an opinion you cannot prove, where as I have a video of Hopkins hitting Jones flush a # of times in the latter rounds of their fight, and we all saw Ruiz, not a big puncher, but a HW hitting a guy who isn't even a true LHW, hit him flush. Your point isn't very strong.

Tarver is not a power puncher? He has 18 KO's in 25 wins. He is known for having a huge left hand. So that's just you exaggerating to make your point. And Johnson landed all night on Jones. It took alot of punishment for Jones to go down.

Like I said....facts say contrary to what you post constantly. His chin may be average, but glass is overstating it quite a bit.

[CASH_718]

Since it seems there are many people here who think Ruiz was a fighter that fought within the rules and has such a great resume let's look at him for a second.


KOed by Tua in 19 seconds

Lost to not one but TWO former Middleweights (Jones/Toney)

His style was so boring and pathetic it caused a referee to make a mercy stoppage versus Oquendo for the fans (I can never remember seeing this since)

Has to fake low blows to beat Kirk Johnson (pathetic)

Glass Jaw Roy Jones handpicks you to win a Heavyweight Paper Title (this should be the real evidence that Ruiz is horrible)

The only reason Ruiz "won" a belt was King thought he could create a Latino PPV Heavyweight star to the huge Latino fanbase, too bad the fighter he picked for this was boring and just basically a club fighter. King's plan backfired.


Ruiz is a terrible fighter with a cheating "style" end of story. :smokeIt's been close to a year since the last time Ruiz fought and he has no fights coming up and his name hasn't even been mentioned. What kind of a fucking loser are you to start a bullshit Ruiz thread(that's been done many times before)?????

Fuck Ruiz and fuck you. I wish you would fuck off like Ruiz has.

[CASH_718]

I'd rather watch Ruiz vs Rahman then read another one of your bullshit posts.

[andyZOR]

Since it seems there are many people here who think Ruiz was a fighter that fought within the rules and has such a great resume let's look at him for a second.


KOed by Tua in 19 seconds

Lost to not one but TWO former Middleweights (Jones/Toney)

His style was so boring and pathetic it caused a referee to make a mercy stoppage versus Oquendo for the fans (I can never remember seeing this since)

Has to fake low blows to beat Kirk Johnson (pathetic)

Glass Jaw Roy Jones handpicks you to win a Heavyweight Paper Title (this should be the real evidence that Ruiz is horrible)

The only reason Ruiz "won" a belt was King thought he could create a Latino PPV Heavyweight star to the huge Latino fanbase, too bad the fighter he picked for this was boring and just basically a club fighter. King's plan backfired.


Ruiz is a terrible fighter with a cheating "style" end of story. :smoke

And don't forget the fact he had gift decisions as well. (Golota)

[A-50]

No spin...where did I say you ONLY push Euro fighters. I said you push Euro fighters constantly. Not that you only push them. Don't try to add meaning to my words where there is none. I have seen you mention more than 2, but honestly, considering you never come back with proof of anything any time I ask you to in a cordial debate, I can't be bothered doing it for you.

Like I said, you spend most of your posts that I see saying Jones has a glass jaw.

Jones had a flash KD against Del Valle and got up at the count of 5.

Ruiz, Hopkins, Toney all landed flush. Jones never flinched. To say no one landed a punch on his jaw in 50 fights is absurd, and again, is an opinion you cannot prove, where as I have a video of Hopkins hitting Jones flush a # of times in the latter rounds of their fight, and we all saw Ruiz, not a big puncher, but a HW hitting a guy who isn't even a true LHW, hit him flush. Your point isn't very strong.

Tarver is not a power puncher? He has 18 KO's in 25 wins. He is known for having a huge left hand. So that's just you exaggerating to make your point. And Johnson landed all night on Jones. It took alot of punishment for Jones to go down.

Like I said....facts say contrary to what you post constantly. His chin may be average, but glass is overstating it quite a bit.


When Jones fought Ruiz, ole Jawny last KO was 1998! Who did Ruiz KO? Nobody but bums and do not mention that referee mercy stoppage on Oquendo. The bottomline is Glass Jaw Roy handpicked Ruiz and then tried to make it out like he was about to fight Jack Dempsey.

[A-50]

It's been close to a year since the last time Ruiz fought and he has no fights coming up and his name hasn't even been mentioned. What kind of a fucking loser are you to start a bullshit Ruiz thread(that's been done many times before)?????

Fuck Ruiz and fuck you. I wish you would fuck off like Ruiz has.


you must have missed the Vitali Klitschko/Jawny Ruiz thread.

[Zakman]

He fucking sucks . Most of the fights against names that everyone claims where so great could have went the other way and probably should have . He didn't win any of them convincingly !

Not only that, but he CHEATED in virtually all of those fights, usually by holding excessively, but sometimes, even worse, by faking "low blows." There isn't a "win" on Ruiz's ledger once he started fighting decent fighters, that isn't tainted in some respect.

Notice how once King dumped him, he hasn't "won" a single fight. There's a reason for that.:yep

[kg0208]

When Jones fought Ruiz, ole Jawny last KO was 1998! Who did Ruiz KO? Nobody but bums and do not mention that referee mercy stoppage on Oquendo. The bottomline is Glass Jaw Roy handpicked Ruiz and then tried to make it out like he was about to fight Jack Dempsey.

Blah blah blah.....like I said. Never facts, just your opinion. Even an average hitting HW would hit hard compared to a LHW.

Agenda exposed as always. When you have anything other than your opinion to back up your claims, let me know and we can discuss them.

[lefthook31]

Not only that, but he CHEATED in virtually all of those fights, usually by holding excessively, but sometimes, even worse, by faking "low blows." There isn't a "win" on Ruiz's ledger once he started fighting decent fighters, that isn't tainted in some respect.

Notice how once King dumped him, he hasn't "won" a single fight. There's a reason for that.:yep

I woud say Lewis cheated in the Bruno fight for holding his head up with one hand and hitting him with the other. He also cheated against Grant holding his head down when he threw the uppercut to KO him. He also cheated against Holyfield when he held his neck down. He also cheated against Tyson when he leaned all his weight on Tysons back when he was bent down. Lennox lewis cheated as much as Ruiz did, so his legacy should be tarnished. :hey

[TheGreat]

If his resume is garbage, Vitali Klitschko's is a step below garbage right?:good

Well said.

[Mind Reader]

When Jones fought Ruiz, ole Jawny last KO was 1998! Who did Ruiz KO? Nobody but bums and do not mention that referee mercy stoppage on Oquendo. The bottomline is Glass Jaw Roy handpicked Ruiz and then tried to make it out like he was about to fight Jack Dempsey.

No, the bottom line is no glass jawed light heavyweight (especially one that started his carrer at middle) takes a flush shot from any heavyweight. That disproves the whole "glass jaw" crap that you are obsessed with.

[Mind Reader]

Many people here have agendas.

:lol: :lol: :lol:
This whole thread is one of your many agendas to try and discredit Roy Jones.. This really isnt even about Ruiz is it??

[Jimbo]

Let's look at him for 19

BLuV0vCWs_A

[Zakman]

I woud say Lewis cheated in the Bruno fight for holding his head up with one hand and hitting him with the other. He also cheated against Grant holding his head down when he threw the uppercut to KO him. He also cheated against Holyfield when he held his neck down. He also cheated against Tyson when he leaned all his weight on Tysons back when he was bent down. Lennox lewis cheated as much as Ruiz did, so his legacy should be tarnished. :hey

Lewis' legacy is already tarnished by getting starched by second-raters, and not facing ANY of the great fighters in his era in their primes....but that's another subject.....:lol:

More to the point - NO ONE, even those of us who think he's overrated by many - would suggest that Lewis didn't have world class ability. There is a big difference between using illegal tactics PERIODICALLY to SUPPLEMENT actual world class boxing ability, as Lewis, Hopkins, Holyfield, Ali and many others did - and using them CONSTANTLY as a REPLACEMENT for the LACK of them, as Ruiz did.

I really hope you can see the difference here. The issue is not so much that Ruiz bent the rules occationally, but that he did it ALL THE TIME, and that unlike those other fighters, if he hadn't, he would have LOST. That's why he did it!:yep

[kg0208]

Lewis' legacy is already tarnished by getting starched by second-raters, and not facing ANY of the great fighters in his era in their primes....but that's another subject.....:lol:

More to the point - NO ONE, even those of us who think he's overrated by many - would suggest that Lewis didn't have world class ability. There is a big difference between using illegal tactics PERIODICALLY to SUPPLEMENT actual world class boxing ability, as Lewis, Hopkins, Holyfield, Ali and many others did - and using them CONSTANTLY as a REPLACEMENT for the LACK of them, as Ruiz did.

I really hope you can see the difference here. The issue is not so much that Ruiz bent the rules occationally, but that he did it ALL THE TIME, and that unlike those other fighters, if he hadn't, he would have LOST. That's why he did it!:yep

For Lewis' legacy to be tarnished, the general boxing public would have to view those KO's the same way you do. There is more than enough evidence that they don't. So his legacy is fine.

[lefthook31]

Lewis' legacy is already tarnished by getting starched by second-raters, and not facing ANY of the great fighters in his era in their primes....but that's another subject.....:lol:

More to the point - NO ONE, even those of us who think he's overrated by many - would suggest that Lewis didn't have world class ability. There is a big difference between using illegal tactics PERIODICALLY to SUPPLEMENT actual world class boxing ability, as Lewis, Hopkins, Holyfield, Ali and many others did - and using them CONSTANTLY as a REPLACEMENT for the LACK of them, as Ruiz did.

I really hope you can see the difference here. The issue is not so much that Ruiz bent the rules occationally, but that he did it ALL THE TIME, and that unlike those other fighters, if he hadn't, he would have LOST. That's why he did it!:yep
Well I think a better way of saying it, is that Lewis didnt need the illegal tactics to win, but Ruiz did. :hey Im hardly comparing Ruiz's skills to Lewis, but he had to do something right to win the fights he did, against some pretty decent guys.

[lefthook31]

For Lewis' legacy to be tarnished, the general boxing public would have to view those KO's the same way you do. There is more than enough evidence that they don't. So his legacy is fine.
Revenging defeat is great, but revenging a devastating KO loss to a mediocre fighter, doesnt wipe the slate clean. Lewis legacy will always be in question when placing him with the greats due to these losses.

[kg0208]

Revenging defeat is great, but revenging a devastating KO loss to a mediocre fighter, doesnt wipe the slate clean. Lewis legacy will always be in question when placing him with the greats due to these losses.

Perhaps with some....but not with most. Everytime someone says this and there is a debate, the overwhelming majority say Lewis is a top 10 ATG, meaning his legacy is intact.

I never said it wiped the slate clean. But very few say his legacy is tarnished, which is to imply that he wasn't very good, at least the way Zakman is using it.

[lefthook31]

Perhaps with some....but not with most. Everytime someone says this and there is a debate, the overwhelming majority say Lewis is a top 10 ATG, meaning his legacy is intact.

I never said it wiped the slate clean. But very few say his legacy is tarnished, which is to imply that he wasn't very good, at least the way Zakman is using it.

I think things would have been a lot different for Lewis had he been fighting the better guys in the late 80's and early 90's, and without Steward. If guys like Rahman, Mcall, Mercer and Bruno could expose his weaknesses, think of what Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield at their peak would have done to him, but thats a whole other arguement. :hey

[andyZOR]

Let's look at him for 19

BLuV0vCWs_A

Man that never gets old. :good

[kg0208]

I think things would have been a lot different for Lewis had he been fighting the better guys in the late 80's and early 90's, and without Steward. If guys like Rahman, Mcall, Mercer and Bruno could expose his weaknesses, think of what Bowe, Tyson, Holyfield at their peak would have done to him, but thats a whole other arguement. :hey

Well it is another argument entirely, because the good fighters Lewis fought never dropped him.

[See Me Flow]

Originally Posted by A-50
Many people here have agendas.




Looked in the mirror much?

Your whole life on this message board is trying to discredit RJJ....wonder if it's the DM complex?

:yep :good

[C Money]

Since it seems there are many people here who think Ruiz was a fighter that fought within the rules and has such a great resume let's look at him for a second.


KOed by Tua in 19 seconds

Lost to not one but TWO former Middleweights (Jones/Toney)

His style was so boring and pathetic it caused a referee to make a mercy stoppage versus Oquendo for the fans (I can never remember seeing this since)

Has to fake low blows to beat Kirk Johnson (pathetic)

Glass Jaw Roy Jones handpicks you to win a Heavyweight Paper Title (this should be the real evidence that Ruiz is horrible)

The only reason Ruiz "won" a belt was King thought he could create a Latino PPV Heavyweight star to the huge Latino fanbase, too bad the fighter he picked for this was boring and just basically a club fighter. King's plan backfired.


Ruiz is a terrible fighter with a cheating "style" end of story. :smoke

Precisley!!!! So why are we taking a look at him??


I'm still trying to FORGET!!!



MOTHERFUCK JANE LOUISE, NORMAN STONEHEAD(Lou Albano) and all the unholiness they brought to the sport:good

[PJD3]

HEY action YOU SHOULD BE ALL OVER THIS GUY HE WOULD HAVE BEEN THE GREATEST CHAMPION IN mma:good

[Zakman]

Well I think a better way of saying it, is that Lewis didnt need the illegal tactics to win, but Ruiz did. :hey

That's basically what I said - and that's why Ruiz is a fraud, and Lewis a legitimate world class HW. "Winning" fights you would otherwise lose by using illegal tactics is cheating - and not only cheating your opponents, but cheating the fans as well.

It is utterly amazing to me that anybody gives Ruiz any credibility whatsoever. He didn't just cheat his opponents of their opportunity to win within the rules, he cheated the fans of the boxing matches they paid to see!!

[A-50]

That's basically what I said - and that's why Ruiz is a fraud, and Lewis a legitimate world class HW. "Winning" fights you would otherwise lose by using illegal tactics is cheating - and not only cheating your opponents, but cheating the fans as well.

It is utterly amazing to me that anybody gives Ruiz any credibility whatsoever. He didn't just cheat his opponents of their opportunity to win within the rules, he cheated the fans of the boxing matches they paid to see!!


Bottomline is Lewis has pugilistic skills and Ruiz does not. Ruiz was a fraud and a joke and anyone that defends this guy knows nothing about boxing.

[Carlos Primera]

Bottomline is Lewis has pugilistic skills and Ruiz does not. Ruiz was a fraud and a joke and anyone that defends this guy knows nothing about boxing.
and rjj is given a lot of kudos for beating this guy.

[Feiti]

Ok, let's look at it based on what actually happened...

Lost in 19 seconds to Tua.
Went 1-1-1 with Holyfield (i thought he won 2 of those fights, however).
BEAT Kirk Johnson after Johnson VICIOUSLY lowblowed him 4+ times.
Beat Fres Oquendo convincingly.
Lost to RJJ.
Beat Hasim Rahman convincingly.
Beat Andrew Golota.
NC against Toney who tested positive for drug use.
Lost to Valuev in controversial fashion.
Lost to Chagaev in non-controversial fashion.


NO, here is what REALLY happened

1) Lost to Sergei Kobozev by SD

2) Lost to Danell Nicholson by SD

3) Lost in 19 seconds to Tua

4) Got a somewhat controversial loss a clear win and a somewhat controversial draw against Holyfield, where a lot of people thought Holy won. In the clear win, many people felt Holy´s low blow was a legal body shot. Ruiz did not get penaltized for throwing an admittedly low blow in retaliation.

5) Beat Kirk Johnson by DQ where most people feel Ruiz faked at least some of the low blows

6) Got OWNED and SCHOOLED by Roy Jones

7) Beat a pretty out of shape Rahman in a horrible hugfest.

8) Beat Oquendo in a terrible hugfest

9) Got a really shameless gift decision against Golota, in a fight he was floored at least once legitimately. A poll on this form had 80% of posters saying Golota should have won the fight.

11) Got outboxed, OWNED and SCHOOLED by a fat James Toney, but got the belt back when Toney was found to have used illegal substances

12) Lost to Valuev by a disputed decision

13) Lost a close but not so disputed fight with Chagaev

[Feiti]

He didn't just cheat his opponents of their opportunity to win within the rules, he cheated the fans of the boxing matches they paid to see!!

That is mostly true, but I certainly didn´t feel cheated watching the fights where Ruiz got his ass handed to him (and did not get a gift decision). The dislike I had for Ruiz made Ruiz-Toney as maybe the most enjoyable match I´ve ever watched! I really should get the Ruiz-Jones fight somewhere. Would make my day.

[Feiti]

Ruiz resume is not really that impressive just because he fought good opposition. He lost to about half the good fighters he faced. This is just looking at the record, regardless of unfair decisions or illegal tactics in fights.

Major wins:
1) Holyfield
2) Golota
3) Johnson
4) Oquendo
5) Rahman
6) Thunder
7) Tucker

Major losses:
1) Holyfield
2) Tua
3) Valuev
4) Chagaev
5) Jones
6) Nicholson
7) Kobozev

Pair that with the fact that many of Ruiz´s wins were close, unimpressive or simply unfair - his resume is not that good at all.

[kg0208]

and rjj is given a lot of kudos for beating this guy.

Of course he is. Ruiz was a handpicked titleholder....lets say he was.

WHO CARES. He was still A) a title holder...weakest of them or not B) MUCH larger than Jones who was a small LHW to begin with and really a SMW

Jones being held to a higher standard here. Let me tell you, if Hopkins had moved up years ago and beaten Ruiz, no one would be talking about "Handpicked" or anything else.

[A-50]

Of course he is. Ruiz was a handpicked titleholder....lets say he was.

WHO CARES. He was still A) a title holder...weakest of them or not B) MUCH larger than Jones who was a small LHW to begin with and really a SMW

Jones being held to a higher standard here. Let me tell you, if Hopkins had moved up years ago and beaten Ruiz, no one would be talking about "Handpicked" or anything else.

Because Bhop did not handpick 99% of the fighters he faced like Jones did.

[kg0208]

Because Bhop did not handpick 99% of the fighters he faced like Jones did.
Proof? Other than your opinion? Cuz Hopkins best wins did come against guys who started much smaller than he did right? And Hopkins reigned over a division just as weak if not weaker than Jones LHW division right?

How bout some proof A-50? Got any? Any at ALL?

[Zakman]

Ruiz resume is not really that impressive just because he fought good opposition. He lost to about half the good fighters he faced. This is just looking at the record, regardless of unfair decisions or illegal tactics in fights.


Pair that with the fact that many of Ruiz´s wins were close, unimpressive or simply unfair - his resume is not that good at all.

Exactly. People tout Ruiz's resume, but it is really not that great at all - particularly considering that this is one of the most mediocre eras in HW history.

Truthfully, when you look historically, Ruiz is probably the least talented fighter to ever hold a HW title belt - which is why he had to cheat to get it!:yep