Linear Heavyweight Time Machine Roundup

[djanders]

Let's try this a different way. We get our time machine and call up all the linear heavyweight champs, and their supporting groups, at their best. Every one of them fights every other one in scheduled 12 round bouts, under modern rules, training aids, equipment, and officiating. Who ends up with the best record? Feel free to list your top 10 if you wish.

Generally Recognized Linear Heavyweight Champions:

John L. Sullivan
James J. Corbett
Bob Fitzsimmons
James J. Jeffries
Marvin Hart
Tommy Burns
Jack Johnson
Jess Willard
Jack Dempsey
Gene Tunney
Max Schmeling
Jack Sharkey
Primo Carnera
Max Baer
James J. Braddock
Joe Louis
Ezzard Charles
Jersey Joe Walcott
Rocky Marciano
Floyd Patterson
Ingemar Johansson
---Floyd Patterson again
Sonny Liston
Muhammad Ali
Joe Frazier
George Foreman
---Muhammad Ali again
Leon Spinks
---Muhammad Ali again
Larry Holmes
Michael Spinks
Mike Tyson
James Buster Douglas
Evander Holyfield
Riddick Bowe
---Evander Holyfield again
Michael Moorer
---George Foreman again
Shannon Briggs
Lennox Lewis
Hasim Rahman
---Lennox Lewis again
Wladimir Klitschko

(I made this list from memory, so if I have forgotten anyone, help me out.)

[Beeston Brawler]

I will come up with a top 10 later today.... not happy about Wlado being on the list but anyways..... :verysad

:yep

[MRBILL]

My Top 10 are:

1. Ali
2. Holmes
3. Johnson
4. Louis
5. Foreman
6. Lewis
8. Vitali Klit (Don't Laugh Too Hard.)
9. Holy
10. Tyson / Frazier / Marciano (Pick 'Em.)

MR.BILL

[McGrain]

That's too hard for me man!!

I think Ali would do best against the field. I'm convinced that Louis is almost as good as Ali on a "prime for prime" head to head basis, but his style combined with his only very good chin means he would drop a couple of .W's to the massive punching super-heavies involved - I would expect him to lose one to Lewis, Bowe or Wlad. Would he come second? Impossible to say...one of the big guys, probably Lewis would run him close and I suspect Liston would do very very well.

But all these guys have vulnerabilities that Ali doesn't have IMO. Lewis may be vulnerable to punchers. Louis can be spilled and might lose odd ones to someone like Johnson or Tunney. The old-timers are handicapped by the ruleset. Liston may be repeatedly outsped. Ali, primed Ali is going to perhaps lose to Frazier and Louis but would do exceptionally well against many of the others I think.

Holmes is the dark horse.

[essexboy]

This is virtually impossible. I may try it though when I've got a couple of days handy.

[McGrain]

This is virtually impossible. I may try it though when I've got a couple of days handy.

:lol:

Yeah, it is so true, that's the bottom line! It's impossible...but...

[janitor]

Who ends up with the best record?

Probably the person best able to adapt to the schedule, number of bouts and likley ring wear.

Jack Johnson might be a good pick because:

1. He was acustomed to fighting to a verry busy scedule and taking on multiple elite fighters back to back.

2. His style was verry economical in terms of energy expenditure so he would be less likley to burn out half way through the tournament.

3. He was a defensive fighter and as such would tkae less cumulative pinishment than most of the fighters in the tournament.

Simply put he would outlast the competition.

[Manassa]

Joe Louis would do well to fight consummately against most, or to decapitate the forward runners in a couple of rounds. I reckon he'd win the most through not expending as much energy as the rest. Joe Frazier would start well but be fucked by the half way point, ending up with a 50/50 record. Louis had about seven or eight 'peak' years owing much to his style, which has sometimes been described as boring for most of a fight, but in the end he produced spectacular and decisive results.

Thirty seven champions there I think, and Louis would be fighting about eighteen of them right? Assuming there's a couple of months between each fight I predict Louis would end up at about 14-4 (the schedule taking its toll) with 10 knockouts.

[McGrain]

Joe Frazier would start well but be fucked by the half way point, ending up with a 50/50 record.


Yup.

Imagine how pissed off you would be if you drew Frazier in the first round?

[junior-soprano]

still got a few questions
how do they fight eachother once a week, once a month, or what ? if they fight eachother in a tight schedule the swarmers are out early cause there way of fighting costs so much energy. for example frazier. he didn't mind if he had to take 2 punches to deliver one. but in a tournament that will break him up.
i asume they will fight every few days then i will go for the talents and the economic fighters. probably guys like ali, johnson, holmes, liston, louis, lewis. and maybe foreman comes a long way. since his incredible power and size.. he has a huge advantage over guys like marciano, walcott, dempsey, sharkey, tunney, patterson and so on and so on

[Manassa]

Yup.

Imagine how pissed off you would be if you drew Frazier in the first round?

Probably beats Louis?

But then Louis rips the shit out of Frazier in a focused rematch.

[McGrain]

Probably beats Louis?.

Hmmm. I dunno about that. Louis can absorb quite a beating, and I like his concise, persistant punching to get Frazier before Frazier can finish the job.

[MRBILL]

Gotta go with Ali and Holmes as my boys...........

MR.BILL

[djanders]

Partial quote: still got a few questions
how do they fight each other once a week, once a month, or what?

Once a month sounds good to me. I would make allowances for cuts that need to heal, etc. We should still be able to accomplish this and time machine them back where they were within 3 to 5 years...I hope. Of course, we would send them back to the time we took them, back into the bodies they had, so no time would be lost then.

Any time machine experts on here? :nut

[djanders]

By the way, I'm going with Muhammad Ali in this...but I must admit that there are some who worry me in my pick...Joe Louis, Jack Johnson, and a few others.

[djanders]

Probably the person best able to adapt to the schedule, number of bouts and likley ring wear.

Jack Johnson might be a good pick because:

1. He was acustomed to fighting to a verry busy scedule and taking on multiple elite fighters back to back.

2. His style was verry economical in terms of energy expenditure so he would be less likley to burn out half way through the tournament.

3. He was a defensive fighter and as such would tkae less cumulative pinishment than most of the fighters in the tournament.

Simply put he would outlast the competition.

Good points! That's one thing that worries me about picking Muhammad Ali to win this. Would this type of schedule wear him down sooner than his real schedule did?

[janitor]

Good points! That's one thing that worries me about picking Muhammad Ali to win this. Would this type of schedule wear him down sooner than his real schedule did?

I think possibly it would combined with his propensity for taking punishment when needed.

By the time this thing was resolved it would cease to be a measure of who was greatest and become more of an endurance test.

[Chris Warren]

Did you people know that Pierre Coetzer has the highest recorded I.Q. recorded in human history? The man has a I.Q. of 800. So not only was Coetzer a great a boxer, that man was a genius

[ripcity]

Modern training gives an advantage to the old timers. I think that they could add 10 lbs of muscule. Those who have good highth and reach would probbly fight with a beter strgity.

[Boilermaker]

Good points! That's one thing that worries me about picking Muhammad Ali to win this. Would this type of schedule wear him down sooner than his real schedule did?

It certainly adds an interesting element if the fights are once a week, fortnight or even month. I am thinking that maybe a hitter and dominater might have the advanatage. John L Sullivan pretty much fought to this sort of schedule regularly so he must be one of the favourites. Maybe a defence oriented fighter like Jack Johnson could have a chance, but i think he would have to tire. AS a dark horse, i think that a prime Tyson would be the best chance. Even when he was taken the distance it was usually dominating wins and he rarely took much punishment. Contrast this with the likes of Ali or Frazier who would be in plenty of wars. Another dark horse might be Sam Langford. And, strangely enough i think that a Klitchsko or even Lennox lewis might also do better than expected as there size would mean they are not hit that often, and when they are, they would often go down and lose, but not take the punishment. I think that every fighrer would drop at least a few fights.

[Bummy Davis]

I think it depends of who get the pick of the draw....There may be an upset if Ali gets stuck with Marciano or Frazier 1st pick and certain logic would tell you that Marciano and Frazier would have the cards stacked against them vs Foreman,Liston and Lewis...Of all I think Joe Louis is the best head to head....I can see him beating them all, even Lewis by KO and Vlad and Vitali....Ali would have trouble with the swarmers and the larger sized awkward men like the Klitscko's and Lewis....Louis may lose a couple but was a master at rematches....and I would not be suprised if my boy Marciano KO'd a few of the monster Giants and with his power and stamina....but the best for the money Joe Louis

[Manassa]

I'd bet on Louis mainly for the fact he'd be able to end certain fights relatively quickly. Muhammad Ali, for instance, might win a gruelling decision against Lennox Lewis whereas Louis might be able to land the right combination that sends out Lewis in three.

Or a better example might be in a fight against Max Baer. Ali would outclass him of course, but expend more energy with a decision win. Louis would knock him out in three or four rounds, just like in real life, getting a good workout but not overdoing it.

[ripcity]

It would be interesting to see if Jess Willard & Primo Carnera can fight off their back foot.

[frankenfrank]

1. Vitali
2. Wlad
3. Lewis
4. Holyfield
5. Tyson
6. Ali
7. Foreman
8. Bowe
9. Frazier
10. Marciano