How Good was Ricky Hatton?

[ricardinho]

How good was his resume?

Where does he figure at 140 lbs?

As far as marketability goes the Ricky was a smashing success. His biggest win was against Kostya--it was a great win and huge upset. However, Ricky was never able to produce a second great work. Was he a one hit wonder, or are their intangibles that do not appear on his resume?

[Mantequilla]

Solid enough, overachieving world class 140lber and a mediocre welter.

Never looked convincing as a champion to me, with skills that steadily deteriorated from reasonably educated pressure fighter to almost an unwatchable jab, grab and maul style, once he started fighting world opposition, though he was probably right to employ the roughhouse strategy he did against an old Tszyu.

Tough to deal with for sure for fighters at and below B level due to his strength and awkwardness, but imo lacked the inside chops,or durability to be successful with his style against most of the notable junior welters throughout history.Generally just lacked the offensive prowess and sharpness needed to take him beyond being a decent but forgettable champ.

He's probably going to be remembered very favourably strictly as a British great due to the Tszyu win and world title reign, but i don't really agree with that either.He would struggle to make British all-time top 30 for me.I preferred that other overacheving champion Jim watt over him to be honest.

[TBooze]

Until everyone that matters retires, we will not truly be able to tell.

I think though, his resume will show in time that he was very much on the fringes of becoming a true top 15/20 140lber, some may even have him slightly higher.

[teeto]

Well he was/is a nobhead completely, but that's for another day.

I saw his career like this. When he beat Tszyu he was on a genuine platform to establish himself (or attempt to actually) as an all time great light welterweight, as in top ten. Instead the money went to his head and he opted to go for massive money paydays which he had zero chance of winning, rather than the type of legacy enhancing fights that would be recognised in a place such as East Side's Classic forum (haha). He had a win over a top contender in Ben Tackie at the time, which i for one rate, he then got a win over the likes of Maussa and Urango here and there. Not the best, but these are the kind of wins which stack your resume provided the better rated men are added as well. The massive negative was not adding the scalp of Junior Witter to his record, instead going for Castillo, Mayweather and Pacquiao, some fo the greatest of the era, and we know what happened next.

[My2Sense]

As far as marketability goes the Ricky was a smashing success. His biggest win was against Kostya--it was a great win and huge upset. However, Ricky was never able to produce a second great work.

Pretty much the way I would summarize his career, although his KOs of Castillo and Maussa were somewhat noteworthy.


Was he a one hit wonder, or are their intangibles that do not appear on his resume?

Personally, I think he might possibly have stayed at the top longer if he didn't continually balloon in weight between fights and then have to suck himself back down. That's the kind of thing that a fighter can get away with for a short while, but it eventually takes a heavy toll on their bodies. That's what happened to Jorge Paez as a featherweight IMO.

[Mantequilla]

I don't think Hatton ever showed the ability to threaten a top 10 junior welter position, anymore than someone like Paul Hodgkinson or Jim Watt did when they became world champions in their respective weightclasses....you could just see that level of talent wasn't there, though feather and light are deeper than junior welter.

[sweet_scientist]

The stars really were aligned perfectly for him to come in at a time when many of his opponents were declining (Tszyu, Castillo, Phillips, Lazcano etc.) and as a result, he ended up getting hyped way beyond his true measure.

A good fighter for sure, but with glaring limitations which were often hinted at even in bouts he won, before the demise of his own prime set in.

[ricardinho]

Well he was/is a nobhead completely, but that's for another day.

I saw his career like this. When he beat Tszyu he was on a genuine platform to establish himself (or attempt to actually) as an all time great light welterweight, as in top ten. Instead the money went to his head and he opted to go for massive money paydays which he had zero chance of winning, rather than the type of legacy enhancing fights that would be recognised in a place such as East Side's Classic forum (haha). He had a win over a top contender in Ben Tackie at the time, which i for one rate, he then got a win over the likes of Maussa and Urango here and there. Not the best, but these are the kind of wins which stack your resume provided the better rated men are added as well. The massive negative was not adding the scalp of Junior Witter to his record, instead going for Castillo, Mayweather and Pacquiao, some fo the greatest of the era, and we know what happened next.

I agree because he never fought Junior "the Quitter" Witter a fight that he probably would have won he would have had a stronger resume.

[teeto]

I agree because he never fought Junior "the Quitter" Witter a fight that he probably would have won he would have had a stronger resume.
Not sure if you've ever seen my posts on the Hatton-Witter situation, but i'd rather not get into it now, too draining an experience making the posts. I'm not really bothered personally about who would have won, and i wouldn't particularly be rooting for either, but the fact he didn't face him and how he went about not facing him, was a disgrace.

[kmcc505]

Well, I posted this in the other part of the forum but I'm too lazy to go find it. Here ya go: my thoughts on Ricky now and his future.

What's Next for the Hitman?

Even after well over three months from a devastating loss to the hard punching Manny Pacquiao, Ricky "The Hitman" Hatton still doesn't know what is next for his career. Hatton, who was reduced to tears in a meeting with Muhammad Ali recently, still seems no closer to deciding if he'll return to the squared circle any time soon, a place where he's only suffered two losses in 47 career fights.

Speaking to the AP:

"I've had a lot of fights and sometimes, when you've been in this game as long as I have, running in the morning, training in the afternoon, dieting, I've reached the stage that I've had enough now, I want a bit of a rest," he said.

Well, Hatton seems like a candidate for being able to take all the time he wants to decide. He fought the way fans wish all fighters would fight. Despite his apparent flaws, Hatton bulldozed his way through all comers to an impressive 43-0 before splitting his last two fights against the sport's P4P elite (Pacquiao and Mayweather).

Unlike fellow countryman Joe Calzaghe, Hatton came over to America in his prime and battled against other great fighters in theirs. Hatton's tough-as-nails approach and affable demeanor made him a sure commoditiy, and his raucous Brit following always made his fights must-see-tv.

Ricky Hatton is only 30 years old. Heck, most fighter don't start really slowing down until around 32 or 33 anyways. But pressure fighters like the Hitman burn bright and burn fast. They come onto the boxing scene in a bewildering swirl of aggresive menace and leave just as quickly as if swirling down the drain with the havoc they created.

Here's hoping Ricky Hatton makes the decision that is best for him. In my opinion, he's already a sure fire hall of famer. His impressive ledger of accomplishments, coupled with his willingness to fight the very best, make Ricky Hatton a legend in his own time.


If you ask me, though, it sure looked like he could come back and be more successful in future fights. He has only lost to the very, very best. And in hindsight, maybe a change in approach to training wasn't his best move before the fight with Pacman.

In any event, here's to Ricky Hatton and what ever his future holds.

(If you want to see him at his very best, check out the way he mauled Kostya Tszyu into submission in 2002...)

[kmcc505]

In short, I think he's a hall of famer right now. He is only 30 and I can see him getting some more good wins on his resume to enhance his reputation even more.

[teeto]

Well, I posted this in the other part of the forum but I'm too lazy to go find it. Here ya go: my thoughts on Ricky now and his future.

What's Next for the Hitman?

Even after well over three months from a devastating loss to the hard punching Manny Pacquiao, Ricky "The Hitman" Hatton still doesn't know what is next for his career. Hatton, who was reduced to tears in a meeting with Muhammad Ali recently, still seems no closer to deciding if he'll return to the squared circle any time soon, a place where he's only suffered two losses in 47 career fights.

Speaking to the AP:

"I've had a lot of fights and sometimes, when you've been in this game as long as I have, running in the morning, training in the afternoon, dieting, I've reached the stage that I've had enough now, I want a bit of a rest," he said.

Well, Hatton seems like a candidate for being able to take all the time he wants to decide. He fought the way fans wish all fighters would fight. Despite his apparent flaws, Hatton bulldozed his way through all comers to an impressive 43-0 before splitting his last two fights against the sport's P4P elite (Pacquiao and Mayweather).

Unlike fellow countryman Joe Calzaghe, Hatton came over to America in his prime and battled against other great fighters in theirs. Hatton's tough-as-nails approach and affable demeanor made him a sure commoditiy, and his raucous Brit following always made his fights must-see-tv.

Ricky Hatton is only 30 years old. Heck, most fighter don't start really slowing down until around 32 or 33 anyways. But pressure fighters like the Hitman burn bright and burn fast. They come onto the boxing scene in a bewildering swirl of aggresive menace and leave just as quickly as if swirling down the drain with the havoc they created.

Here's hoping Ricky Hatton makes the decision that is best for him. In my opinion, he's already a sure fire hall of famer. His impressive ledger of accomplishments, coupled with his willingness to fight the very best, make Ricky Hatton a legend in his own time.


If you ask me, though, it sure looked like he could come back and be more successful in future fights. He has only lost to the very, very best. And in hindsight, maybe a change in approach to training wasn't his best move before the fight with Pacman.

In any event, here's to Ricky Hatton and what ever his future holds.

(If you want to see him at his very best, check out the way he mauled Kostya Tszyu into submission in 2002...)
I respect your view and standpoint on Ricky Hatton in general.

Just so you know mine, here is the last post i made on Hatton. I was asked about him by a poster named Socrates a while ago, a rare moment i ventured into the General forum. Anyway, here's my reply to him.

Socrates i've really gotta go out, so i know you're going to ask for an explanation, so i'll just so this now for you.

Ricky Hatton 'man of the people', wow, Felix Trinidad and Roberto Duran would be sick to their stomachs if they knew the ins and outs of that one.

As a purist boxing fan, i believe that all fighters, on deserving fights the proper way, by winning, should get their opportunity as much as the next man. I understand that boxing politics play a part in the outcome of such careers, but i hate that. Ricky Hatton and Junior Witter should have fought at domestic level, donkeys years ago, before either won an established title. Junior Witter repeatedly called out the man he had a right to face off against, Witter the man with no great fanbase that is. Hatton with the massive army of football fans, knew all along he was in the position of power, and fuckin taunted him over it.

Now here's the hypocrisy.

Hatton after beating a past prime, ex best LIGHTWEIGHT of the era in Jose Luis Castillo, 'you've just seen more action in them four rounds than in the whole of Floyd Mayweather's career'. Mayweather enraged, gets the fight made and takes care of business. Now Junior Witter, languishing in the shadows for what seemed like an eternity had done all he could to tempt Hatton into fighting him. What does Hatton reply with, 'he hasn't earned his shot', 'his slagging me off won't do anything'.

But Hatton talking absolute shit about Mayweather is good enough to get him a shot, and as we all know, Hatton should never have shared a ring with Mayweather.

Fuck me, people still talk about how terrible it was that Charley Burley never won a title due to boxing politics, look at what is happening right here and now.

I'm no Witter fan, i'm no Hatton fan, i'm simply a boxing fan. And what i know is that when you slog your ass off for years in what is the hardest of games, and you earn that number one contender shot the hard way, you should get that shot. Sorry to bang on but i find it absolutely disgusting.

Meanwhile Hatton laughs about the Witter situation, openly.

I hope Khan beheads him and leaves him no excuse this time, no trainer, no ref, just another beating outright

[duranimal]

I respect your view and standpoint on Ricky Hatton in general.

Just so you know mine, here is the last post i made on Hatton. I was asked about him by a poster named Socrates a while ago, a rare moment i ventured into the General forum. Anyway, here's my reply to him.

Socrates i've really gotta go out, so i know you're going to ask for an explanation, so i'll just so this now for you.

Ricky Hatton 'man of the people', wow, Felix Trinidad and Roberto Duran would be sick to their stomachs if they knew the ins and outs of that one.

As a purist boxing fan, i believe that all fighters, on deserving fights the proper way, by winning, should get their opportunity as much as the next man. I understand that boxing politics play a part in the outcome of such careers, but i hate that. Ricky Hatton and Junior Witter should have fought at domestic level, donkeys years ago, before either won an established title. Junior Witter repeatedly called out the man he had a right to face off against, Witter the man with no great fanbase that is. Hatton with the massive army of football fans, knew all along he was in the position of power, and fuckin taunted him over it.

Now here's the hypocrisy.

Hatton after beating a past prime, ex best LIGHTWEIGHT of the era in Jose Luis Castillo, 'you've just seen more action in them four rounds than in the whole of Floyd Mayweather's career'. Mayweather enraged, gets the fight made and takes care of business. Now Junior Witter, languishing in the shadows for what seemed like an eternity had done all he could to tempt Hatton into fighting him. What does Hatton reply with, 'he hasn't earned his shot', 'his slagging me off won't do anything'.

But Hatton talking absolute shit about Mayweather is good enough to get him a shot, and as we all know, Hatton should never have shared a ring with Mayweather.

Fuck me, people still talk about how terrible it was that Charley Burley never won a title due to boxing politics, look at what is happening right here and now.

I'm no Witter fan, i'm no Hatton fan, i'm simply a boxing fan. And what i know is that when you slog your ass off for years in what is the hardest of games, and you earn that number one contender shot the hard way, you should get that shot. Sorry to bang on but i find it absolutely disgusting.

Meanwhile Hatton laughs about the Witter situation, openly.

I hope Khan beheads him and leaves him no excuse this time, no trainer, no ref, just another beating outright

Well said, fair,constuctive & OH SO TRUE:smoke

[teeto]

Well said, fair,constuctive & OH SO TRUE:smoke
Why thank you.

[ricardinho]

Why thank you.

I agree as well

[teeto]

I agree as well
Why thank you! (kidding), Hatton's just touched a lot of fans in different ways i guess.

[GazOC]

I agree as well

I don't but lifes too short....;)

[teeto]

I don't but lifes too short....;)
Aren't you supposedto be on my side??! (just kidding)

Ibrahimovic is shit by the way.

[GazOC]

Aren't you supposedto be on my side??! (just kidding)

Ibrahimovic is shit by the way.

I know 'we' havn't done that well in the transfer market but Eto plus cash for that lazy fucker is something else!!!!

[teeto]

I know 'we' havn't done that well in the transfer market but Eto plus cash for that lazy fucker is something else!!!!
Seriously, 'lte's just let Real have the title this year', should have been the statement by Barca, madness. Mourinho sounded like he thought it was funny.

Anyway, we're thread hi-jacking mate!

[kidargentine]

He didn't really impress me all that much. He was a tall fighter, that would jab, body punch occasionally...rinse and repeat. He was pretty good, beat an aging Tsuzya, but other than that couldn't reach the elite of the elite level as he was beaten in the big money makers...

[GazOC]

He didn't really impress me all that much. He was a tall fighter, that would jab, body punch occasionally...rinse and repeat. He was pretty good, beat an aging Tsuzya, but other than that couldn't reach the elite of the elite level as he was beaten in the big money makers...

Are you sure you're thinking of the right guy? He was a short arse who didn't have much of a jab and who went to the body as often as possible.

[Manassa]

In the old days I reckon he'd be around the level of Johnny Bratton, who he'd split a series with.

*Inevitable Ike Williams comment* - Ike Williams at 140lbs would cave him in.

[kmcc505]

teeto, I see what you are saying. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think we can blame Hatton for Witter's lack of opportunity. He's shown in other big fights to not be the real deal.

[PbP Bacon]

I must confess I haven't followed Hatton's career closely. So excuse my ignorant post.

However, I have watched his fight with Pacquiao and he didn't impressed me at all. I know that such a short fight is not a good measure of how good Hatton was/is, but the fact is that Hatton's defense was truly bad that night.

Not taking anything away from Manny, but if the way that Hatton fought that night was the same way that he fought his whole career, then it is truly a miracle that Hatton didn't become the poster boy for palooka

[WhataRock]

I liked him when he was coming up and wasnt to surprised he was poison for Tszyu given all the factors involved in that fight.

But agree with the point made that when he consistently stepped up the opposition his limited skillset became apparent..and he went from very watchable to almost unwatchable IMO.

[Flea Man]

I think he accomplished a lot for what he was.

he wasn't an 'inside fighter' but a brawler, and for a brawler he did okay. The Tackie fight is an obvious indicator that he could do more and was more rounded, but Tackie was decent in his prime but known as a 'gatekeeper' really.

The urango win was good when you consider he went on to win the title again; the asethetics of his performances just got real bad, too much holding.

I'll always be a Hatton fan, just not a fan of his style. Would like to see him retire now, I'd say in a post-war list he makes the top 10 British fighters.

[Xplosive]

Ricky is a good fighter, in his prime very good, but theres alot of guys in the history of 140 who would beat him.

[Beeston Brawler]

I think he is an almost impossible fighter to rate.

[PowerPuncher]

I was a big Hatton critic and always complained about who he didn't face but we dont rate fighters by who they didnt face otherwise we wouldnt rate the Sugar Rays. He has a mighty impressive resume imo

Great Opponents

Tyszu - past prime version, but just put in a fabulous performance against Mitchell and was the no1 140lber of the prior 10years. Hatton outboxed, outbrawled and outworked Tyszu, this really is a great win for him

Castillo - KO4, JLC was semi-shot but its a great win because Castillo was the number 1 LW of the prior 5 years

Mayweather - won 3 rounds forcing the fight and landing some good body shots, Mayweather said it was his hardest career fight but could have just being polite about it. Best P4P of the prior

Pacquaio - people say this showed Hatton's level but did the Carter fight show Griffith level? The Duran fight. Pacquaio is a great fighter and was just all wrong for Hatton

Good Opponents

Phillips - ex-champ and the only other man to beat Tyszu, an old man but still sneaky with his powerful right hand, a good dominating win

Urango - Wide UD against a current and future titlist who is simply a massive puncher

Mallignaggi -I wasnt that impressed because I thought Paulie got a couple of gifts but the dominating nature of the win was good

Maussa - Maussa was a lucky titlist so not that impressive

Collazo - a good close win against a belt holder in his first fight in a new weight class, Collazo probably would deserve a decision against Berto and has some decent wins of his own

Decent Contenders

Lazcanno - considered a comeback opponent but has some quality wins

Tackie - considered top10, decent dominating win

Magee - fringe top10 type

Ray Olivera - finge top 10 had some decent wins coming in

He was protected but 45-2 looks very good on paper and its clearly not all fluff. He has those 2 big wins in Tyszu and JLC and some good wins to back it all up.

I don't like rating 140lbers because its such a modern division, which often the best only pass through it when going to WW. All the same I may put him on par with someone like Cervantes who I believe gets overrated

[Flea Man]

Regardless of Hatton being 'protected' he always WANTED the big fights.

Fights that were as tough as Witter if maybe not as tough stylistically (Hatton obviously didn't see that he could beat Witter, nor did I, not on Witters 'best night' anyway, mainly because Hatton seemed intimidated and I doubt he would've attempted to implement his style in the same way as he would against an opponent he was confident against) so he can hardly be called 'protected' when he sought out fights with Tszyu and Pac. ****** may have protected him, but that's not Hatton's fault IMO.

[PowerPuncher]

Regardless of Hatton being 'protected' he always WANTED the big fights.

Fights that were as tough as Witter if maybe not as tough stylistically (Hatton obviously didn't see that he could beat Witter, nor did I, not on Witters 'best night' anyway, mainly because Hatton seemed intimidated and I doubt he would've attempted to implement his style in the same way as he would against an opponent he was confident against) so he can hardly be called 'protected' when he sought out fights with Tszyu and Pac. ****** may have protected him, but that's not Hatton's fault IMO.

Hatton operated his career on a risk-reward basis, which is a smart thing to do but not a fan friendly thing to do. This wasn't simply ****** not letting him have the fights, Team Hatton weren't keen on allot of the harder fights. Hatton turned down a good few fights while with ******. Look at after he left ****** when he could fight whoever he wanted, he fought Maussa, Collazo, while turning down the FMJ fight, turning down the Witter fight. He also turned down a Cotto fight at some stage. But when he could make the big bucks he stepped up and fought the best

Witter may have beaten him, he was a risk, I'm not 100% sure how that would go. Witter lacks stamina/straight punching/. But he is a great shot slipper and faster than Hatton. Hatton has the bigger heart, great stamina/workrate (very underrated stamina), and he can actually fight inside. I was a Witter fan and its 1 I always wanted to see

Its a shame Witter-Hatton didn't happen after the Mayweather fight, but if I had a choice of making £5m against Witter or £20m against Pacquaio I know which I'd take. Its also a shame Witter didnt get a shot earlier in his career, he would have taken Shamba Mitchell out back in the day imo and that would have set something up. Witter was unfortunate to twice come up against 2 very good young American prospects in their prime. But its all Witter's fault really, he fought too negatively, didnt have a big fighting heart, didnt fight often enough, and turned down fights with Cotto/Pinto that could have catapulted him to the big stage.

[Beeston Brawler]

Good post.

People often just blackball Hatton and assume Witter was just an innocent, hard done by, avoided fighter.

The truth was that he was offered plenty of decent fights, turned them down and then started spouting off in the media.

It's alright claiming to be a devastating puncher when fighting the likes of Alan Temple and Lucky Sambo, but let's face it, who with a pulse did he face between Judah and N'Dou?

Hatton was wasting time with a few bullshit WBU fights, but still managed to rack up wins over Magee, Phillips, Tackie, Oliveira and Stewart.

Pretty much any of those would have gotten into the top 3 wins on Witter's resume.

[PowerPuncher]

Good post.

People often just blackball Hatton and assume Witter was just an innocent, hard done by, avoided fighter.

The truth was that he was offered plenty of decent fights, turned them down and then started spouting off in the media.

It's alright claiming to be a devastating puncher when fighting the likes of Alan Temple and Lucky Sambo, but let's face it, who with a pulse did he face between Judah and N'Dou?

Hatton was wasting time with a few bullshit WBU fights, but still managed to rack up wins over Magee, Phillips, Tackie, Oliveira and Stewart.

Pretty much any of those would have gotten into the top 3 wins on Witter's resume.

Ndou, Harris, Kotelnik, Corley all rate solidly over Magee, Phillips, Tackie, Oliveira and Stewart as fighters mate, especially the older versions Hatton faced, I wouldnt mention even Stewart as he was never up to much.

Witter in his defense was taking the Brit/Euro titles and beating fighters of such calibre to do so. He should have taken the Pinto/Maggee fights when they were offered though as they were winnable fights that would have advanced him. He also made a mistake leaving ******. But Witter never had the silver spoon treatment that Ricky had

[Beeston Brawler]

Hmmmm.......

Corley was done, as subsequent results have proved. It was a shit performance by Witter as well.

Harris was never really that good IMO, a top end Euro level fighter (even though he isn't European - but you get me!).

Kotelnik is a good win, but the fight was very close and he had a loss to M'Baye - though in his defence he stripped Maidana of his '0', who subsequently made Ortiz his bitch.

N'Dou is a granite chinned gatekeeper, who if he had a higher workrate, would probably have gotten a share of the spoils vs Witter. He lost to pretty much every top end fighter he ever faced.

Leaving ****** was probably a mistake, but he is a difficult fighter to move. Throughout his career he has had next to no momentum - spells of inactivity followed up by a joke opponent in a tuneup.

They are both pretty tough guys to rate, but I think one of them can be pretty proud of his achievements and the other ought to wonder what might have been. If only I had focused my attentions elsewhere and made a legacy of my own.

Part of that must be bad management, he ought to have realised ages ago that he wasn't on Hatton's radar, yet he continually called him out. Why not take a hard fight in the States and force the fight?

The only time he was in a real position to force the fight was when he beat Harris, but by that time nobody really cared because Ricky was already signed to face Mayweather.

Things haven't panned out right for him on numerous occasions, but he could have done more to help his cause.

[PowerPuncher]

Hmmmm.......

Corley was done, as subsequent results have proved. It was a shit performance by Witter as well.

Harris was never really that good IMO, a top end Euro level fighter (even though he isn't European - but you get me!).

Kotelnik is a good win, but the fight was very close and he had a loss to M'Baye - though in his defence he stripped Maidana of his '0', who subsequently made Ortiz his bitch.

N'Dou is a granite chinned gatekeeper, who if he had a higher workrate, would probably have gotten a share of the spoils vs Witter. He lost to pretty much every top end fighter he ever faced.

Leaving ****** was probably a mistake, but he is a difficult fighter to move. Throughout his career he has had next to no momentum - spells of inactivity followed up by a joke opponent in a tuneup.

They are both pretty tough guys to rate, but I think one of them can be pretty proud of his achievements and the other ought to wonder what might have been. If only I had focused my attentions elsewhere and made a legacy of my own.

Part of that must be bad management, he ought to have realised ages ago that he wasn't on Hatton's radar, yet he continually called him out. Why not take a hard fight in the States and force the fight?

The only time he was in a real position to force the fight was when he beat Harris, but by that time nobody really cared because Ricky was already signed to face Mayweather.

Things haven't panned out right for him on numerous occasions, but he could have done more to help his cause.

All those fighters have their drawbacks but all were titlists, Harris was a pretty good 1 who messed up against Mausa, Ndou deserved wins over Mitchell/Malignaggi 2, and pushed Cotto. Allot of people had Kotelnik beating the French man twice. Corley went down hill after Witter, but nearly all of Hatton's opponents went on losing streaks/retirement afterwards too if you want to look at it that way

They are still all better than Magee, Phillips, Tackie, Oliveira and Stewart. And Maussa/Malignaggi for that matter too.

Hatton has been far more fortunate than Witter with his career in fairness. If WItter and Hatton were strikers Hatton would be playing for Man United (bare with me :lol:) getting 10 chances a game, Witter would be playing at Hull City getting 1-2 half chances of scoring. Hatton has just had far more chances of making big fights on his terms, Witter hasnt. I think we can be pretty sure Tyszu aside which is a tough 1 Witter beats the rest of Hatton's comp. Both are pretty much done though, maybe 1 gets 1 last roll of the dice versus Khan though

[Beeston Brawler]

:lol:

I don't think Junior Witter and Phil Brown could work together effectively!

[Ted Spoon]

"Old habits die hard"...and therein lay Hatton's intrinsic problem when he started to rub shoulders with the best.

You can't have your fists rocking underneath your chin as you come in. Sure, this will work against standard and even some decent opponents as they concern themselves with defending against the expected rushes, but the better ones are going to be picking out those abundant moments when he leads in with his head and persists with the same angle of attack.

The capable Eamonn MaGee showed how much the assertive counterpunch did not agree with Hatton, before he inexplicably simmered as the rounds went by, letting Hatton hoover up the rounds.

After the big slash with a rusty Tszyu came problems at the higher weight and Mayweather unravelled Hatton when it came down to who deserves to be 'undefeated' more. It was all cakes n' cream with Mayweather Sr for a time after the loss, but Hatton needed to learn these little lessons a good 7 years prior.

When Pacquiao came whatever he learnt went out of the window and his style of walking square-on gave him virtually no chance against a man several levels above his game.

Hatton was a good fighter, but his popularity will do more for his legacy than his record will, which contains many stepping-stones of filler. Frank ****** ensured he struck at the right time as did his bad habits (inside the ring and out) ensure he fell from the top in due course.

[janitor]

I think he was prety good really.

He was the best junior welter on the planet for a period of a few years and despite the key fights that he missed he was going after the beltholders.

He was ultiimately overmatched when he was put in with a great fighter like Mayweather or Paquiao but they were both the best pound for pound fighter on the planet when they beat him.

On a final note I think that he might just pull off one last upset before he hangs up his gloves.

[red cobra]

He was painfully overrated. He beat a once-was Tszyu, and was exposed soon enough by the elite fighters he got around to fighting. The British press didn't help matters much by touting him as though he were the second coming of Ken Buchanan. Calzaghe they were justified in raving about...not Hatton.

[Beeston Brawler]

I personally want him to give it away and enjoy the rest of his days.

However, if he chooses to pack in, I'd like to see his comeback fight be a ten rounder on an undercard somewhere - wishful thinking obviously.

It's difficult to guage what he has left - if he is to continue at 140 he needs to get back with his old nutritionist, and with a trainer he can genuinely trust. Billy Graham wasn't a master tactician, but there was 100% trust between the pair of them until after the Floyd fight, after which it all went sour.

I just wish he would have shown more discipline in the ring, granted, he would have still lost to Floyd and Manny, but would have been much more competitive in doing so, and would have won some of his wars easier - therefore preserving his career.

[RafaelGonzal]

The stars really were aligned perfectly for him to come in at a time when many of his opponents were declining (Tszyu, Castillo, Phillips, Lazcano etc.) and as a result, he ended up getting hyped way beyond his true measure.

A good fighter for sure, but with glaring limitations which were often hinted at even in bouts he won, before the demise of his own prime set in.

this is the perfect analises,,,,imagine him trying to crack the top 5 today he would not be a Champ.

[Unforgiven]

Almost everybody was saying Tzsyu would murder him at the time. And almost everybody had Tzsyu near the very top of the pound-for-pound list at the time. Tzsyu's standing was VERY HIGH.
Hatton beat him up.
It's always AFTER the event that people say "washed-up".
Maybe Tszyu was overrated. I dont know.

Hatton deserves credit.

[teeto]

teeto, I see what you are saying. I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think we can blame Hatton for Witter's lack of opportunity. He's shown in other big fights to not be the real deal.
Yeah i understand that completely, but it's just a thing where i hate to see fighters who outright deserve their shot not getting it, and to basically be taunted by the man in the power position, well like i said.

[GazOC]

this is the perfect analises,,,,imagine him trying to crack the top 5 today he would not be a Champ.

he's already beaten one of the current champs, Urango.....

[red cobra]

Almost everybody was saying Tzsyu would murder him at the time. And almost everybody had Tzsyu near the very top of the pound-for-pound list at the time. Tzsyu's standing was VERY HIGH.
Hatton beat him up.
It's always AFTER the event that people say "washed-up".
Maybe Tszyu was overrated. I dont know.

Hatton deserves credit.
A fighter, even a great one, can grow old overnight, i.e. between fights. The best version of Kostya Tzsyu would be too much for the best version of Ricky Hatton.

[PowerPuncher]

A fighter, even a great one, can grow old overnight, i.e. between fights. The best version of Kostya Tzsyu would be too much for the best version of Ricky Hatton.

I'm not so sure, Tyszu was always easy to hit, always slower (dand and foot speed) than Hatton and always had problems with being backed up and being pressured.

[GazOC]

Hatton was a just a bad style matchup for Zoo at that point in his career. I don't think he got 'old overnight' just that he couldn't do 12x3 mins under pressure at high tempo anymore (he was never that keen on it even in his prime).

[teeto]

I agree that Hatton was a bad style match up for Tszyu. Kostya is still better in an overall sense though, and greater at that weight for me as well.

I actually had Kostya winning the first 5 rounds and Hatton the next 6. Only watched it the once though.

[Mantequilla]

Hatton was a just a bad style matchup for Zoo at that point in his career. I don't think he got 'old overnight' just that he couldn't do 12x3 mins under pressure at high tempo anymore (he was never that keen on it even in his prime).

Exactly, and in retrospect, the blowout of a old pure boxer like MItchell(who was was never very good imo)didn't really tell us much about what Kostya had left at the time

[Beeston Brawler]

Hatton even stated in his book that he believed he was the man to give Tszyu fits, because of his higher workrate and output.

Throw in the fact that Hatton was naturally reckless enough to be prepared to take many thudding shots to get his own off - rather than standing at a distance and catching the meaty end of the right hand..... he also admitted that had he stood off ala Judah he would have been put flat on his ass pronto.

There is a lot of revisionist history about this fight, but one must remember that Hatton took a vicious beating in this fight, and there wasn't that much between them on the cards. IMO if Tszyu had KD'd Hatton in the 12th..... the story might have been oh so different.

[frankenfrank]

Well he was/is a nobhead completely, but that's for another day.

I saw his career like this. When he beat Tszyu he was on a genuine platform to establish himself (or attempt to actually) as an all time great light welterweight, as in top ten. Instead the money went to his head and he opted to go for massive money paydays which he had zero chance of winning, rather than the type of legacy enhancing fights that would be recognised in a place such as East Side's Classic forum (haha). He had a win over a top contender in Ben Tackie at the time, which i for one rate, he then got a win over the likes of Maussa and Urango here and there. Not the best, but these are the kind of wins which stack your resume provided the better rated men are added as well. The massive negative was not adding the scalp of Junior Witter to his record, instead going for Castillo, Mayweather and Pacquiao, some fo the greatest of the era, and we know what happened next.

you forget the win over vince phillips and him being the 1st to stop malignaggi - and still the only. and we now saw that malignaggi was not shot when he faced hatton.

[frankenfrank]

I agree that Hatton was a bad style match up for Tszyu. Kostya is still better in an overall sense though, and greater at that weight for me as well.


you are wrong again , hatton beat tszyu and phillips who beat tszyu and ray oliveira who narrowly beat phillips .
and there is no closing the circle from tszyu or phillips.
sounds somewhat like proving his superiority over tszyu for me.

[Beeston Brawler]

Trying to claim that Hatton is greater in an overall sense than Tszyu is just crazy.

Tsyzu would be a lock for a top 10 all time place at 140, probably top 5 - Hatton struggles to crack a top 15.

[red cobra]

Trying to claim that Hatton is greater in an overall sense than Tszyu is just crazy.

Tsyzu would be a lock for a top 10 all time place at 140, probably top 5 - Hatton struggles to crack a top 15.
Yeah, most people, I would wager, would consider Joe Louis to be greater, in the big picture, than Rocky Marciano, and Benny Leonard to be greater than Jimmy McLarnin, even though they were the ko victims, due to the fact that both losses occured at their end of the trail, and other examples exist as well...like Emile Griffith being trounced and decked along the way by Alan Minter, a fine fighter BTW, but one who wouldn't have even gotten near beating Griffith in Griffith's time...likewise it is, in my opinion, concerning Tzsyu and Hatton.

[PowerPuncher]

you are wrong again , hatton beat tszyu and phillips who beat tszyu and ray oliveira who narrowly beat phillips .
and there is no closing the circle from tszyu or phillips.
sounds somewhat like proving his superiority over tszyu for me.

Tyszu was 35, Phillips 39

[frankenfrank]

Tyszu was 35, Phillips 39
well , so the win over phillips really count less than what i thought - he also came back from a loss and apparently was having trouble making 140 and was on a downslide. but 35 isn't that old in tszyu's case : he just came back from a second defeat of a peek Shrmba Mitchell and was quite on hisslef peak , which was not short. if he'd have a weak career before or after that loss , that would have supported your point , but it wasn't the case.

[PowerPuncher]

well , so the win over phillips really count less than what i thought - he also came back from a loss and apparently was having trouble making 140 and was on a downslide. but 35 isn't that old in tszyu's case : he just came back from a second defeat of a peek Shrmba Mitchell and was quite on hisslef peak , which was not short. if he'd have a weak career before or after that loss , that would have supported your point , but it wasn't the case.

35 is pretty old for a 140lber, certainly past prime and he only had 3 rounds in 2 years. In boxing stamina and ability to fight long hard fights counts allot.

Mitchell wasnt that good, was past prime and had just got a gift decision against Ndou the year before. He'd go ont to lose all his next big fights emphatically

Tyszu was slower with less stamina than in his prime, which plays a big part in if he can fight at Hattons pace. He also had a shoulder injury

Now Hatton may have beaten Tyszu in his prime, who knows its a possibility but it would be allot closer and a great win for him none the less.

[frankenfrank]

35 is pretty old for a 140lber, certainly past prime and he only had 3 rounds in 2 years. In boxing stamina and ability to fight long hard fights counts allot.

Mitchell wasnt that good, was past prime and had just got a gift decision against Ndou the year before. He'd go ont to lose all his next big fights emphatically

Tyszu was slower with less stamina than in his prime, which plays a big part in if he can fight at Hattons pace. He also had a shoulder injury

Now Hatton may have beaten Tyszu in his prime, who knows its a possibility but it would be allot closer and a great win for him none the less.
agree except just about the 35 age - look at jmm , nate campbell , witter , mosley (agreed to fight pac at 140,and is 147) , look at what baldomir did when he was 35 , what phillips did in that age.

[ricardinho]

After reading you answers to my question I now believe that Ricky was a good fighter that was far from greatness. Teeto's view on how he treated Witter is of note as well as the fact that Ricky was completeley destroyed twice (PBF and PAC). I feel that had Ricky put up more of a fight with either PBF or PAC I would rank him higher. I am more than certain that Ricky is almost as good as Miguel Angel Gonzalez.

[Grinder]

I know 'we' havn't done that well in the transfer market but Eto plus cash for that lazy fucker is something else!!!!

Lazy Swedish dude + cash = Eto

Not the other way around.

Hatton has been lucky in some ways. He isn't a great fighter by any stretch but by the fact that his fanbase is a bunch of one-eyed gits, he has made the bigs fights and scraped through the close ones when it counted (his decision against that southpaw at WW was dodgy). His greatest victory was a MMA performance against a past-it Tszyu.

At least he can afford to eat pies and drink piss for as long as he wants.