Carlos Monzon dropped 3 times and nearly stopped by Felipe Cambeiro

[cotto20]

Any one know much about this fight? was surprised monzon was dropped so many times. But i remember reading monzon didnt really train for the fight

[DRmullen2]

Well, Monzon, is still the best ever at 160.

[Mantequilla]

PRobably did train, but it doesn't really matter one way or the other.It's ocercoming stuff like this that makes great fighters.

[cotto20]

Well, Monzon, is still the best ever at 160.
Yeah i agree the best ever middleweight, he should of went after foster and conteh at lightheavyweight, monzon use to spar heavyweights and was 6 foot 1 so he would of been big and strong enougth, i think monzon would of beat conteh and foster

[Flea Man]

Yeah i agree the best ever middleweight, he should of went after foster and conteh at lightheavyweight, monzon use to spar heavyweights and was 6 foot 1 so he would of been big and strong enougth, i think monzon would of beat conteh and foster

Negative.

[cotto20]

Negative.
what you think conteh and foster would of beat monzon? conteh was a great british fighter but didnt he struggle with tom boggs?

[My2Sense]

It was only in Monzon's first year as a pro, and he was being thrown in with guys that were much more experienced than him. Within a few years, those same guys couldn't handle him.

[Smith]

meh

[Sonny Carson]

He was also hurt badly by Bennie Briscoe in their second fight. I think Monzon is a top three middleweight but I think he's a bit overrated H2H wise.

[Bad_Intentions]

monzon beats coteh? maybe.
monzon beats foster at LHW? nope.

[WhataRock]

what you think conteh and foster would of beat monzon? conteh was a great british fighter but didnt he struggle with tom boggs?


Nah.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

He was also hurt badly by Bennie Briscoe in their second fight. I think Monzon is a top three middleweight but I think he's a bit overrated H2H wise.

I personally rate Monzon the best ever middle (certainly in my own time), as do many others.

Heard an interview last night with Australia's great middleweight of the 70's Tony Mundine. Mundine fought many of the greats including Monzon, Griffith, Briscoe, Moyer, Stirling, Rodriguez etc.

When asked how hard Monzon hit Mundine said he didn't rate his power that highly. But he did say that he rated Briscoe the biggest puncher he ever faced.

(he must also rate Luis Rodriguez pretty highly though as Rodriguez KO'ed him inside the first minute of their bout).

[red cobra]

Any one know much about this fight? was surprised monzon was dropped so many times. But i remember reading monzon didnt really train for the fight
Hell of a jump from that version of Monzon and what he became...and he avenged this defeat, oif course.

[red cobra]

Monzon was the greatest middleweight champion, period.

[mcvey]

Yeah i agree the best ever middleweight, he should of went after foster and conteh at lightheavyweight, monzon use to spar heavyweights and was 6 foot 1 so he would of been big and strong enougth, i think monzon would of beat conteh and foster

Monzon was 5 feet eleven and a half inch tall, as I told you before.
I would not fancy his chances against either of those you mentioned.

[Flea Man]

I think Conteh was as good a boxer as Monzon, with a more fluent style, a solid hitter with faster hands and naturally bigger.

Cotto20; no, I do not think Monzon would've beaten him in the mid 70's when that fight was first mooted.

I think, like Hagler (regardless of the few inches he had on him in height) Monzon's level was Middleweight.

[Flea Man]

Foster would've sparked him IMO. Again, no disgrace in that.

[Boilermaker]

I think Conteh was as good a boxer as Monzon, with a more fluent style, a solid hitter with faster hands and naturally bigger.

Cotto20; no, I do not think Monzon would've beaten him in the mid 70's when that fight was first mooted.

I think, like Hagler (regardless of the few inches he had on him in height) Monzon's level was Middleweight.

But why would their level be middleweight, when other middleweights who are not considered as good as Hagler or Monzon have fought light heavys and beaten them. Even in recent times the likes of Hopkins, Calzaghe, Jones Jr and Toney have moved from middle to light heavy without too much trouble. Even say Danny Green, has done it. I think there is no doubt that Monzon and Hagler would have done it. I think both would beat Foster quite comfortably, but then again, i dont rate Foster as highly as most seem to.

[Flea Man]

But why would their level be middleweight, when other middleweights who are not considered as good as Hagler or Monzon have fought light heavys and beaten them. Even in recent times the likes of Hopkins, Calzaghe, Jones Jr and Toney have moved from middle to light heavy without too much trouble. Even say Danny Green, has done it. I think there is no doubt that Monzon and Hagler would have done it. I think both would beat Foster quite comfortably, but then again, i dont rate Foster as highly as most seem to.

:patsch

Due to their dimensions. For fuckssake do you disagree just for the fun of it or not bother to read my posts????

So if Hagler went up to Light-Heavy in the early 80's, you think he'd have beaten Spinks? He was a 5'8 Middle, and didn't have the shape of say, Dwight Qawi, who made a 5'6 light-heavy look feasible.

Again, my post was in NO POINT WHATSOEVER referring to the class of these fighters, only due to their dimensions and how they would've found Light-Heavy (TWO DIVISIONS ABOVE MIDDLE BY TODAYS STANDARDS) a bit of a stretch.

Regards, Fleaman

By the way, you think Monzon and Hagler would beat Foster quite comfortably???? Why, and please refer to styles, similar opposition etc etc etc otherwise your reasoning will not be taken into account. Why do you not rate Foster as highly as others supposedly do (and for good reason)

Not flaming you, just that you are making points you clearly feel strongly about and I'm intrigued to find out why :good

[Flea Man]

Just noticed a few more things;

Calzaghe did NOT move to light-heavy from middle, he moved there from 168. Less of an increase.

James Toney moved up due to getting overweight. Not a decent transition by any means, no one would disagree that he had to make allowances in his style in order to move up and was at his physical peak at 160. I personally think he has become a 'better' fighter since but that is not the argument.

Jones Jr managed to keep his reflexes all the way up to heavyweight, but this is due to his style. Could Hagler have outboxed someone that was naturally bigger with a longer reach like Spinks for instance, who was no doubt more durable at Light-Heavy than Hearns was at 160. Or be able to slug it out with a pinpoint power puncher like Spinks?

Would Monzon be able to maintain a rhythm against Foster, who had a fantastic jab and could keep range very well. Would his chin be able to take the bombs Foster would undoubtedly land? Would Foster be affected by Monzon's accumulative digs when Monzon was no Jackson at 160, let alone at light-heavy?

There are a lot of variables that I don't think A)you've taken into account B)understand enough to take into account.

Discuss.

[Boilermaker]

:patsch

Due to their dimensions. For fuckssake do you disagree just for the fun of it or not bother to read my posts????

So if Hagler went up to Light-Heavy in the early 80's, you think he'd have beaten Spinks? He was a 5'8 Middle, and didn't have the shape of say, Dwight Qawi, who made a 5'6 light-heavy look feasible.



I dont think he would have beaten Michael Spinks. But i dont think he would have been without some form of chance. I certainly give him a better chance of beating spinks (whether he is a middleweight or not) than i would give (for example) Antwon Echols, simply because of the class factor.


Again, my post was in NO POINT WHATSOEVER referring to the class of these fighters, only due to their dimensions and how they would've found Light-Heavy (TWO DIVISIONS ABOVE MIDDLE BY TODAYS STANDARDS) a bit of a stretch.

It is a fair point. I just dont agree with it because of the class factor. I guess the difference is that while i am not saying size and weight is not important, i do not think it is the be all and all for modern fighters just because modern rules do not pit fighters of different weights against each other. I am more than confident that middleweight Marvin Hagler beats many, many light heavyweights. In fact i am certain of it.


By the way, you think Monzon and Hagler would beat Foster quite comfortably???? Why, and please refer to styles, similar opposition etc etc etc otherwise your reasoning will not be taken into account. Why do you not rate Foster as highly as others supposedly do (and for good reason)

Not flaming you, just that you are making points you clearly feel strongly about and I'm intrigued to find out why :good

I will answer this a bit later, but in short, as i said I dont rate Bob Foster anywhere near as highly as most people do.

[COULDHAVEBEEN]

Could Monzon beat Foster - not IMO - and yes it's about size and power.

[Flea Man]

I dont think he would have beaten Michael Spinks. But i dont think he would have been without some form of chance. I certainly give him a better chance of beating spinks (whether he is a middleweight or not) than i would give (for example) Antwon Echols, simply because of the class factor.(1)


It is a fair point. I just dont agree with it because of the class factor. I guess the difference is that while i am not saying size and weight is not important, i do not think it is the be all and all for modern fighters just because modern rules do not pit fighters of different weights against each other. I am more than confident that middleweight Marvin Hagler beats many, many light heavyweights. In fact i am certain of it. (2.)



I will answer this a bit later (3.), but in short, as i said I dont rate Bob Foster anywhere near as highly as most people do.

1. WTF?!?!??!?

2. Why? And whom?

3. Once you've had a chance to take a look at Boxrec you mean?

[Flea Man]

bump

[Silver]

he probably sees the bell with conteh, but foster would knock monzon out

[cotto20]

he probably sees the bell with conteh, but foster would knock monzon out
only see the bell with conteh? This the same john conteh who got dropped and struggled with tom boggs? Who monzon stoped in 5 easy rounds

[My dinner with Conteh]

only see the bell with conteh? This the same john conteh who got dropped and struggled with tom boggs? Who monzon stoped in 5 easy rounds


Struggled? A flash knockdown then a relatively easy win. Monzon never seriously wanted the Conteh match it was as simple as that, it was John that was doing all the shouting to the press. Monzon fudged the Mundine fight long enough, so why would he take on an excellent champion who'd just convincingly beaten his bigger, stronger countryman?

[teeto]

Struggled? A flash knockdown then a relatively easy win. Monzon never seriously wanted the Conteh match it was as simple as that, it was John that was doing all the shouting to the press. Monzon fudged the Mundine fight long enough, so why would he take on an excellent champion who'd just convincingly beaten his bigger, stronger countryman?
A bit of fucking scouse unity, that's what i'm talking about. On a serious note though, Conteh is rated so high on this forum for ability, and by many posters from the other side of the Atlantic as well. He'd be very proud if he read this stuff i'm sure. In general, or for the average boxing fan i reckon most would not pick him over the great Carlos Monzon, regardless of size, but here he gets the nod by knowledgeable posters.

I'd likely pick him as well, after all, the man was successful at the top level of a higher weight class.

[cotto20]

Struggled? A flash knockdown then a relatively easy win. Monzon never seriously wanted the Conteh match it was as simple as that, it was John that was doing all the shouting to the press. Monzon fudged the Mundine fight long enough, so why would he take on an excellent champion who'd just convincingly beaten his bigger, stronger countryman?
It was not an easy win, monzons win against boggs was an easy win, john went the full 15 got knocked down and lost some rounds, monzon was over all better fighter than john better chin and bigger punch

[My dinner with Conteh]

Yes, it's great to see some really good posters realise how good he was. I always thought it was just a British thing, because he was always very highly rated over here. A really talented fighter, one of our all-time best, just couldn't keep his dick in his pants. :yep

[My dinner with Conteh]

It was not an easy win, monzons win against boggs was an easy win, john went the full 15 got knocked down and lost some rounds, monzon was over all better fighter than john better chin and bigger punch


Conteh stopped Bogs in 7. Get an idea lad.

[teeto]

Yes, it's great to see some really good posters realise how good he was. I always thought it was just a British thing, because he was always very highly rated over here. A really talented fighter, one of our all-time best, just couldn't keep his dick in his pants. :yep
Real man. That's my verdict.

On the point Cotto made about Monzon being a better fighter, that is actually subjective and debatable in a pure sense, but Monzon was certainly the greater fighter, what a ring presence he had.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Real man. That's my verdict.

On the point Cotto made about Monzon being a better fighter, that is actually subjective and debatable in a pure sense, but Monzon was certainly the greater fighter, what a ring presence he had.


Of course, Monzon was a fantastic fighter, but never really fancied the job at 175. No shame in that, he was a fully fledged middle who was perfect at that weight. Conteh was previously a heavyweight so Carlos' strength (so dominant at 160) wouldn't likely ever be a factor if they met.

[teeto]

I'm feeling some Carlos Monzon tribute vids.

[teeto]

I'm feeling some Carlos Monzon tribute vids.
Haha, and to think this thread was actually started on a negative note regarding Monzon as a fighter!

[Mantequilla]

It was not an easy win, monzons win against boggs was an easy win, john went the full 15 got knocked down and lost some rounds, monzon was over all better fighter than john better chin and bigger punch


Bogs got pulled out by his corner at the end of round 6\7(i'd need to watch it again to be sure)on cuts, though it looked more that it was being used as an excuse to save him from further punishment as he was starting to take a terrible beating and likely going to get badly kocked out sooner rather than later.I'd certainly classify it as an easy routine win, despite the first round knockdown, which while embarassing, was more of a fluke than anything else.bogs was almost behind him when he threw the punch, though it's a classic case of the old cliche "protect yourself at all times".


I think Conteh probably took the aging Bogs lightly, especially as he showed him nothign but disdain defensively even after the knockdown.He might have suffered an embarassing early knockout had he got himself in that position against a proper light heavy puncher.

Incidentally,looking at those two fights you see the difference in body strength between a big middle like Bogs or MONzon and a big light heavy that had fought heavyweights.Bogs was physically outmatched and had to use his mobility to stay awayand was manhandled up close, whereas he was the Napoles'esque stalker against Monzon and ripping combo's, though Carlos zeroed in beautifully with the right hand in his oft-favoured fifth round.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Bogs got pulled out by his corner at the end of round 6\7(i'd need to watch it again to be sure)on cuts.


...at the very beginning of the 7th mate. John came out but doc stopped it.

[teeto]

...at the very beginning of the 7th mate. John came out but doc stopped it.
So what's your posting name about then Conteh? If you don't mind me asking, i've never known.

[Flea Man]

cOTTO20;

Oscar Larios went the full 12 with Manny Pac.

In one of their encounters Israel Vasquez sparked him in the first.

Vasquez over Pac? Nope. That's why the fighter A beats Fighter B but C struggles with B so A must beat B DOES NOT WORK!!!

Especially when you get the result wrong.

You are showing your idiocy all acorss eastside with your ridiculous and ill-informed 'who does paul williams think he is' thread on the British forum and incessent 'fantasy match-up's'.

Come back when you have a clue :good

[Sweet Pea]

what you think conteh and foster would of beat monzon? conteh was a great british fighter but didnt he struggle with tom boggs?
No.

[Flea Man]

No.

still looking for frankenfrank/boilermaker's reply :think:lol:

[Boilermaker]

still looking for frankenfrank/boilermaker's reply :think:lol:
Well since you are so interested,

Foster is very overated. He obviously has great light heavyweight power, but that is about it. He needs more than power to beat a great like Monzon. Monzon wasnt the Fastest middleweight or even the hardest hitting. What he was, was probably the most precise hitting with a very simple but solid defence. This is bad news for Foster. Foster, as i am sure you are aware uses the old style low hands defence. He also stands unbelieveably side on. This means he cannot move sideways effectively, and he really is very, very poor with his footwork. ONe of the worst, i have seen from an ATG. I believe that these factors as much as anything is what hurt him, when he fought the very best Heavyweights.

Against Monzon it is going to be very bad news. Monzon will simply land his shots all day, as Foster is too stationery. And the side stance will mean that he will rarely if ever land his right cleanly on Monzon. Monzon, like with most o fhis opponents will land his shots precisely and cleanly and eventually will wear Foster down. Foster, of course retains the punchers chance, and will look good for a few rounds until Monzon starts to wear him down but Monzon will eventually catch up with him. To be honest, i would be quite surprised if Monzon did not Knock him out.

[The Funny Man 7]

There's no way Monzon beats Foster. Period.

[Sweet Pea]

Well since you are so interested,

Foster is very overated. He obviously has great light heavyweight power, but that is about it. He needs more than power to beat a great like Monzon. Monzon wasnt the Fastest middleweight or even the hardest hitting. What he was, was probably the most precise hitting with a very simple but solid defence. This is bad news for Foster. Foster, as i am sure you are aware uses the old style low hands defence. He also stands unbelieveably side on. This means he cannot move sideways effectively, and he really is very, very poor with his footwork. ONe of the worst, i have seen from an ATG. I believe that these factors as much as anything is what hurt him, when he fought the very best Heavyweights.

Against Monzon it is going to be very bad news. Monzon will simply land his shots all day, as Foster is too stationery. And the side stance will mean that he will rarely if ever land his right cleanly on Monzon. Monzon, like with most o fhis opponents will land his shots precisely and cleanly and eventually will wear Foster down. Foster, of course retains the punchers chance, and will look good for a few rounds until Monzon starts to wear him down but Monzon will eventually catch up with him. To be honest, i would be quite surprised if Monzon did not Knock him out.Actually, none of that would play to his disadvantage against Monzon, as Monzon was just as upright and stationary as Foster. You fail to point that out in your post. Only a fighter with excellent footwork and angle movement would, theoretically, do so well against Foster. Monzon was as straight up and down as any elite boxer has ever been. A better in-fighter than Foster for sure, but I doubt if a proven LHW and inside powerhouse in Tiger isn't getting anything going there, than Monzon isn't either.

Monzon was simply not a LHW. You're a good writer Boilermaker, but a lot of words don't neccessarily make a sound point. And you rarely do with yours.

[TheGreatA]

Foster looks pretty sharp here against the game Chris Finnegan:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Conteh giving Tom Bogs a beating:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Boilermaker]

Actually, none of that would play to his disadvantage against Monzon, as Monzon was just as upright and stationary as Foster. You fail to point that out in your post. Only a fighter with excellent footwork and angle movement would, theoretically, do so well against Foster. Monzon was as straight up and down as any elite boxer has ever been.



Fair comments regarding Monzon's movement. But it is the low guard that kills Foster. You surely dont think that a low guard is a good idea against Monzon. Particularly when your chin has been cracked (admittedly by bigger and heavier fighters) quite a bit. I think that being stationery is less of a problem when your defence is an awful lot tighter, like Monzons was. That is why i think that he eventually wears Foster down.

I know some people think that because Monzon never fought at light heavyweight, he will fold to the bigger power (like some people, wrongly in my opinion, seem to think foster did when he faced a heavyeight), but i dont think it is realistically.

[Seamus]

I think Monzon has a good chance against Foster and a better chance against Conteh. All things considered, he was a better fighter than either. Say what you will descriptively about his style, it was one of the most effective styles ever to be displayed in the ring. I put my money on effectiveness not aesthetics. The fact he was an overwhelmingly superior fighter to either makes me think he would have a chance regardless of carrying less pop or weight. Shit, how many posters on here think Greb or Langford would destroy either Klitschko? And we are not even talking that level of discrepancy.

[Manassa]

Can't bet against Foster, but whether he'd spark Monzon is another matter, same with Spinks-Hagler.

Now I know there is a gulf between the punches of middleweights and light heavyweights - especially such hard hitting ones - but we are talking about two middleweights who not only were never stopped, but who were almost never even floored - Hagler, never, and Monzon just once over the last thirteen years of his career for a no-count. You'd do well to supply more than one or two examples where they were even briefly stunned. With Hagler, about the best you'll do is the Hearns right hand that apparently wobbled his legs (but half of us didn't even notice that).

We are talking not Gene Fullmers or Tony Zales, but men with even harder jaws that had the survival skills and defence to back it up. I don't think that, unless old, Hagler and Monzon - the most unstoppable of middleweights - would be flat on their back just because they fought a hard hitting fighter fifteen pounds heavier.

[TheGreatA]

Can't bet against Foster, but whether he'd spark Monzon is another matter, same with Spinks-Hagler.

Now I know there is a gulf between the punches of middleweights and light heavyweights - especially such hard hitting ones - but we are talking about two middleweights who not only were never stopped, but who were almost never even floored - Hagler, never, and Monzon just once over the last thirteen years of his career for a no-count. You'd do well to supply more than one or two examples where they were even briefly stunned. With Hagler, about the best you'll do is the Hearns right hand that apparently wobbled his legs (but half of us didn't even notice that).

We are talking not Gene Fullmers or Tony Zales, but men with even harder jaws that had the survival skills and defence to back it up. I don't think that, unless old, Hagler and Monzon - the most unstoppable of middleweights - would be flat on their back just because they fought a hard hitting fighter fifteen pounds heavier.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Manassa]

'Unless old', you fucking smart-arsed cunt. Tiger was nowhere near his best - and this is coming from a big Foster fan.

[TheGreatA]

'Unless old', you fucking smart-arsed cunt. Tiger was nowhere near his best - and this is coming from a big Foster fan.

Not sure if a prime Dick Tiger could have taken that bomb of a left hook either.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Bob Foster has cracked a chin comparable to Hagler's or Monzon's but I don't think either of them ever fought a puncher like Foster.

[mcvey]

Can't bet against Foster, but whether he'd spark Monzon is another matter, same with Spinks-Hagler.

Now I know there is a gulf between the punches of middleweights and light heavyweights - especially such hard hitting ones - but we are talking about two middleweights who not only were never stopped, but who were almost never even floored - Hagler, never, and Monzon just once over the last thirteen years of his career for a no-count. You'd do well to supply more than one or two examples where they were even briefly stunned. With Hagler, about the best you'll do is the Hearns right hand that apparently wobbled his legs (but half of us didn't even notice that).

We are talking not Gene Fullmers or Tony Zales, but men with even harder jaws that had the survival skills and defence to back it up. I don't think that, unless old, Hagler and Monzon - the most unstoppable of middleweights - would be flat on their back just because they fought a hard hitting fighter fifteen pounds heavier.

Monzon never fought a SRR 6 times, in fact how many punchers did he face 4 /5?

[mcvey]

'Unless old', you fucking smart-arsed cunt. Tiger was nowhere near his best - and this is coming from a big Foster fan.
Dear me! Over reaction there me thinks.:roll:

[Manassa]

Monzon never fought a SRR 6 times, in fact how many punchers did he face 4 /5?

A lighter Ray Robinson you mean? :cool:

On the flipside, Robinson himself - how many punchers did he face?

Since you asked about Monzon, he not only survived Rodrigo Valdez twice but he took all he could handle and gave even more back. And against Bennie Briscoe. Proof enough, I think, combined with another eighty odd fights without being dropped or stopped.

[Manassa]

Dear me! Over reaction there me thinks.:roll:

Don't mistake profanity for anger :good

[mcvey]

Don't mistake profanity for anger :good

Profanity should be as a result of anger, it has no function otherwise.

[mcvey]

A lighter Ray Robinson you mean? :cool:

On the flipside, Robinson himself - how many punchers did he face?

Since you asked about Monzon, he not only survived Rodrigo Valdez twice but he took all he could handle and gave even more back. And against Bennie Briscoe. Proof enough, I think, combined with another eighty odd fights without being dropped or stopped.

Oh please, "a lighter Robinson"! SRR was an alltime puncher at Welter AND Middle.Robinson could knock you out going backwards.
Monzon met two punchers one of whom dropped him. NEITHER HIT REMOTELY IN THE SAME STRATOSPHERE AS FOSTER.

I think you will find Monzon was floored in early domestic fights.


.What relevance has the amount of punchers Robinson faced have to do with this ?
I tell you this,I beleive Foster hit hard enough to ko a prime Tiger,and hard enough to stop a prime Monzon.
Monzon was durable ,of course he was, but super durable ? The Jury is still out imo.
Monzon made more use of his physical size than any fighter I can think of, BUT he NEVER beat a significantly bigger man,I dont suggest a blow out by any means ,but I can see Monzon with his eye closed having been dropped a couple of times finally wilting under a late assault.
Monzon would have lost to Conteh and Galindez imo,never mind Foster.

[Flea Man]

I DO think Foster would stop Hagler and Monzon. It's hard to conceive because neither of them have come close to being stopped. It's almost hard to visualise what a stoppage of them would look like.

But Foster is something else. I honestly think Spinks would stop them both, mainly based on the fact that those guys were physically perfect middleweights. I just can't conceive of them being any bigger AND being effective.

By the way, THAT punch which supposedly wobble Hagler (!) is that the punch that broke Hearns' hand? Says a lot about the toughness of Hagler's head.

[Flea Man]

Actually, none of that would play to his disadvantage against Monzon, as Monzon was just as upright and stationary as Foster. You fail to point that out in your post. Only a fighter with excellent footwork and angle movement would, theoretically, do so well against Foster. Monzon was as straight up and down as any elite boxer has ever been. A better in-fighter than Foster for sure, but I doubt if a proven LHW and inside powerhouse in Tiger isn't getting anything going there, than Monzon isn't either.

Monzon was simply not a LHW. You're a good writer Boilermaker, but a lot of words don't neccessarily make a sound point. And you rarely do with yours.

:happy:good:lol:

[Manassa]

[/u]

Oh please, "a lighter Robinson"! SRR was an alltime puncher at Welter AND Middle.Robinson could knock you out going backwards.
Monzon met two punchers one of whom dropped him. NEITHER HIT REMOTELY IN THE SAME STRATOSPHERE AS FOSTER.

I think you will find Monzon was floored in early domestic fights.


.What relevance has the amount of punchers Robinson faced have to do with this ?
I tell you this,I beleive Foster hit hard enough to ko a prime Tiger,and hard enough to stop a prime Monzon.
Monzon was durable ,of course he was, but super durable ? The Jury is still out imo.
Monzon made more use of his physical size than any fighter I can think of, BUT he NEVER beat a significantly bigger man,I dont suggest a blow out by any means ,but I can see Monzon with his eye closed having been dropped a couple of times finally wilting under a late assault.
Monzon would have lost to Conteh and Galindez imo,never mind Foster.

Capital letters - result of anger? :D

I know Monzon was dropped early in his career, I said he wasn't stopped in eighty odd fights after that. And he was only in his second year as a professional, shouldn't count for much. Hagler was sent reeling by Dornell Wigfall...

Robinson was a great puncher at welterweight and probably 'still very handy' at middleweight. But LaMotta, being naturally heavier, would be less fazed by Robinson's punches than Carlos Monzon would be by Rodrigo Valdez', surely?

Unless you think Robinson hit harder than Valdez.

Boxing is a bit more than 'who did he beat.' I predicted Monzon wouldn't be knocked out by Foster, not that he'd tie Foster into a little bow and post him back to Argentina.

[mcvey]

Capital letters - result of anger? :D

I know Monzon was dropped early in his career, I said he wasn't stopped in eighty odd fights after that. And he was only in his second year as a professional, shouldn't count for much. Hagler was sent reeling by Dornell Wigfall...

Robinson was a great puncher at welterweight and probably 'still very handy' at middleweight. But LaMotta, being naturally heavier, would be less fazed by Robinson's punches than Carlos Monzon would be by Rodrigo Valdez', surely?

Unless you think Robinson hit harder than Valdez.

Boxing is a bit more than 'who did he beat.' I predicted Monzon wouldn't be knocked out by Foster, not that he'd tie Foster into a little bow and post him back to Argentina.
Jumped out at me".boxing is a bit more than who did he beat "
FUCK OFF SONNY !

Monzon met 2 punchers period.
The analogy you make about Jake and SRR is bollocks Jake took BIG punching Lhvys shots.
"Probably still very handy at middleweight," You patronising prick.
Show me a blow out comparable to the Fullmer Ko ,.that was acheived by Valdez ,over the same proven type of durable opponent .[not Briscoe please].
You should visit with Mendoza!

[Manassa]

Jumped out at me".boxing is a bit more than who did he beat "
FUCK OFF SONNY !

Monzon met 2 punchers period.
The analogy you make about Jake and SRR is bollocks Jake took BIG punching Lhvys shots.
"Probably still very handy at middleweight," You patronising prick.
Show me a blow out comparable to the Fullmer Ko ,.that was acheived by Valdez ,over the same proven type of durable opponent .[not Briscoe please].
You should visit with Mendoza!

Monzon met two punchers? Rubbish sweeping statement.

You're the one who brought up Robinson, not me. If I were making the argument, the first I'd have brought up would have been Bob Murphy (who of course stopped LaMotta :oops:).

Show me a blow out comparable to the Fullmer Ko ,.that was acheived by Valdez ,over the same proven type of durable opponent .[not Briscoe please].

Why not Briscoe? He was as durable as Fullmer, surely. Bit convenient of you to disallow that one.

I don't even need to find any more examples. Valdez was a massive puncher, it's just a known thing. Just like Eugene Hart could blow your brains out - if he landed.

Calm down, old man.

[Flea Man]

Monzon met two punchers? Rubbish sweeping statement.

You're the one who brought up Robinson, not me. If I were making the argument, the first I'd have brought up would have been Bob Murphy (who of course stopped LaMotta :oops:).



Why not Briscoe? He was as durable as Fullmer, surely. Bit convenient of you to disallow that one.

I don't even need to find any more examples. Valdez was a massive puncher, it's just a known thing. Just like Eugene Hart could blow your brains out - if he landed.

Calm down, old man.


I keep hearing about Hart but haven't seen him spark anyone? Was he really that big a puncher???

[mcvey]

Monzon met two punchers? Rubbish sweeping statement.

You're the one who brought up Robinson, not me. If I were making the argument, the first I'd have brought up would have been Bob Murphy (who of course stopped LaMotta :oops:).



Why not Briscoe? He was as durable as Fullmer, surely. Bit convenient of you to disallow that one.

I don't even need to find any more examples. Valdez was a massive puncher, it's just a known thing. Just like Eugene Hart could blow your brains out - if he landed.

Calm down, old man.

I brought SRR into the equation to illustrate Lamotta's durabilityat 160lbs
Murphy was a light heavyweight something Monzon NEVER experienced being hit by.
Valdez was a heavy banger no argument there, so why regurgitate him?
Briscoe was a good puncher but not stellar, imo. NAME ANOTHER MONZON FACED.
ps no need to confuse profanity with anger,when I use it I'm angry.
Young Man :good

[Manassa]

I brought SRR into the equation to illustrate Lamotta's durabilityat 160lbs
Murphy was a light heavyweight something Monzon NEVER experienced being hit by.
Valdez was a heavy banger no argument there, so why regurgitate him?
Briscoe was a good puncher but not stellar, imo. NAME ANOTHER MONZON FACED.
ps no need to confuse profanity with anger,when I use it I'm angry.
Young Man :good

Gratien Tonna? Jose Jorge Fernandez?

Monzon's jaw dealt with enough challenges to prove its worth - but in your old age you seem to think I'm claiming LaMotta's jaw wasn't as good.

It was just as good, probably even stronger, but he didn't have the same survival skills.

And on Eugene Hart, he knocked out a few good fighters, but his 'lack of' doesn't mean he couldn't hit. He had a terrific left hook, it's a known thing in Philadelphia, he just didn't have the other skills necessary to land it consistently.

[teeto]

Gratien Tonna? Jose Jorge Fernandez?

Monzon's jaw dealt with enough challenges to prove its worth - but in your old age you seem to think I'm claiming LaMotta's jaw wasn't as good.

It was just as good, probably even stronger, but he didn't have the same survival skills.

And on Eugene Hart, he knocked out a few good fighters, but his 'lack of' doesn't mean he couldn't hit. He had a terrific left hook, it's a known thing in Philadelphia, he just didn't have the other skills necessary to land it consistently.
That's a great avatar Manassa, you've gne through more lately than you did in ages. I srt of associated you with 'the she bangs the drums' one. You must be back in love with boxing with these new ones you're sporting.

Is that Rodrigo Valdez?

[Manassa]

That's a great avatar Manassa, you've gne through more lately than you did in ages. I srt of associated you with 'the she bangs the drums' one. You must be back in love with boxing with these new ones you're sporting.

Is that Rodrigo Valdez?

Yeah, I know it sounds silly but playing Fight Night Round 4 with my mates sparked up the interest again. Yeah it's Valdez after the Monzon rematch.

[Flea Man]

Yeah, I know it sounds silly but playing Fight Night Round 4 with my mates sparked up the interest again. Yeah it's Valdez after the Monzon rematch.

It's a good game. Still isn't 'perfect' you CAN blow Hagler away inside a couple of rounds on the hardest difficulty. It just SHOULDN'T HAPPEN!

Best game engine in terms of fighting is still Victorious Boxers for me. Looks like the real thing, unfortunately every character is chinny as fuck AND has massive power!

[mcvey]

Gratien Tonna? Jose Jorge Fernandez?

Monzon's jaw dealt with enough challenges to prove its worth - but in your old age you seem to think I'm claiming LaMotta's jaw wasn't as good.

It was just as good, probably even stronger, but he didn't have the same survival skills.

And on Eugene Hart, he knocked out a few good fighters, but his 'lack of' doesn't mean he couldn't hit. He had a terrific left hook, it's a known thing in Philadelphia, he just didn't have the other skills necessary to land it consistently.
I took issue when you said Monzon was probably the second most durable middle .
Tonna, Fernandez were no more than scond tier punchers imo.
I said Monzon faced two real punchers nothings changed my mind.
Which by the way still functions.

[Manassa]

I took issue when you said Monzon was probably the second most durable middle .
Tonna, Fernandez were no more than scond tier punchers imo.
I said Monzon faced two real punchers nothings changed my mind.
Which by the way still functions.

And I think you jumped out of your pram a bit too hastily, unless of course you were being ironic since normally you're the one who has a go at me for getting worked up. Which, by the way, I never do - it's the internet.

On Tonna & Fernandez - Tonna was maybe second tier but still ferocious in his own right, Fernandez was more than that, knocking the shit out of anyone who wasn't at least a strong contender. Regardless of skill, both punched very hard and you can bet Monzon caught their hardest punches on the jaw.