The Middleweight Tournament Final

[GPater11093]

Its here people. The final of the Middleweight Tournament. Who will win?

'Marvellous' Marvin Hagler vs Carlos Monzon over 15, 3 minute rounds.

For the ESB Middleweight Tournament Title.

[teeto]

Oh fuckinghell i'm excited!

Is this the voting thread little guy?

[GPater11093]

yeh vote here with a reason

[teeto]

Feel like i'm on a rollercoaster.

[GPater11093]

Feel like i'm on a rollercoaster.

is that good or bad

[teeto]

is that good or bad
Good but nervous, you been on the pepsi max greg? it's like i'm on the bit where it's going up really slow, and you know you're going to go down the scary bit, you can hear the fucking ticking noise. Nar in fact, i might not get on at all (might not vote!), haha.

[GPater11093]

Good but nervous, you been on the pepsi max greg? it's like i'm on the bit where it's going up really slow, and you know you're going to go down the scary bit, you can hear the fucking ticking noise. Nar in fact, i might not get on at all (might not vote!), haha.

haha its a good one im tempted to provide my anaylisis of it.

aint been on the pepsi max im not a roller coaster man really.

anyway stop spamming my thread :lol:

[teeto]

I'm Sonny Liston, I'm Jack Dempsey.............

[GPater11093]

I'm Sonny Liston, I'm Jack Dempsey.............

:rofl:rofl

i mean it stop it

[teeto]

:rofl:rofl

i mean it stop it
Sorry kiddo, just thought it had been a while since i'd hit you with that one. Back to the thread.

[teeto]

Make a vote then GP to start the ball rolling, i'm really interested here and you're ignoring me you little shit. Hurry up and i might vote with more insight, i don't wanna stay online forever tonight really.

Everyone, let's get this voting going.

[la-califa]

I like Hagler by a very close decision here. Marvin should take the early rounds & would be on the inside landing hard shots. Hagler wouldn't be intimidated by Monzon's power, so he should atacking harder than usual. Monzon wouldn't waver & he should start to come on in the later rounds. But Marvin should have enough rounds in the bank, plus be competitive in a few of the later rounds to escape with a close decision.

[teeto]

I like Hagler by a very close decision here. Marvin should take the early rounds & would be on the inside landing hard shots. Hagler wouldn't be intimidated by Monzon's power, so he should atacking harder than usual. Monzon wouldn't waver & he should start to come on in the later rounds. But Marvin should have enough rounds in the bank, plus be competitive in a few of the later rounds to escape with a close decision.
A lot of people are going to pick Monzon here, because they deem him impossible to beat on the cards at his best. But Hagler, pressing the fight with anyone, 'making them fight', well i believe he bodes well against the vast majority of history's 160 pounders doing that. Still undecided as you can see, and i'm not one to sit on the fence.

[GPater11093]

Teeto im not voting tonight

im going to mulll it over and vote at the weekend

[Smith]

Escopeta wins this one via close, close UD. He got in the ring with a lot of world elite class fighters, but Marvin would be his hardest fight of course. I've said this before on this fight a while ago, but I see it as a closer Valdez II, Monzon gets rocked a few times by Marvin early on, then starts to claw his way back in and grind down Marvelous to claim back a few rounds. With the way the fight has gone, the crowd are on there feet for a grandstand finish in the last round, with both men showing why they are considered the two best of all time at the weight. In the end Carlos's ice cold brutality wins him the decisive latter rounds, and with the 15th being a dead even draw, Carlos gets the nod. Both men applaud each other knowing they've just created a moment of magic in boxing history, and there is no hard feelings from Marvin or his team. He whispers in Carlos's ear 'we have to fight again, rematch next!', to which the shotgun replies no way jose, thats me, i'm finished, i'm now the best, i'm riding off into the sunset. Marvin grins and both men are joined by there women who hold there mens hands up and the crowd erupts in applause. Marvin leaves the ring and shouts back, 'youre on top of the world Carlos, enjoy it, go have fun, treat that beautiful wife of yours right there well, adios'....Carlos grins.



_____________________________


Please excuse this, I'm a few ice cold beers down, get all carried away.

[GPater11093]

smith i really had to think who you would pick

nah just joking fair anaylisis

love the dialogou at the end

[teeto]

Escopeta wins this one via close, close UD. He got in the ring with a lot of world elite class fighters, but Marvin would be his hardest fight of course. I've said this before on this fight a while ago, but I see it as a closer Valdez II, Monzon gets rocked a few times by Marvin early on, then starts to claw his way back in and grind down Marvelous to claim back a few rounds. With the way the fight has gone, the crowd are on there feet for a grandstand finish in the last round, with both men showing why they are considered the two best of all time at the weight. In the end Carlos's ice cold brutality wins him the decisive latter rounds, and with the 15th being a dead even draw, Carlos gets the nod. Both men applaud each other knowing they've just created a moment of magic in boxing history, and there is no hard feelings from Marvin or his team. He whispers in Carlos's ear 'we have to fight again, rematch next!', to which the shotgun replies no way jose, thats me, i'm finished, i'm now the best, i'm riding off into the sunset. Marvin grins and both men are joined by there women who hold there mens hands up and the crowd erupts in applause. Marvin leaves the ring and shouts back, 'youre on top of the world Carlos, enjoy it, go have fun, treat that beautiful wife of yours right there well, adios'....Carlos grins.



_____________________________


Please excuse this, I'm a few ice cold beers down, get all carried away.
Post of the month and it's only 02/09, (Bill Shankly's birthday by the way)

Great post, really, i visualised that last bit, with the crowd and everything, think i actually heard them in my head.

[Boilermaker]

I was going to comment on how amazing it was that after all the upsets and controversies the two favourites have rose to the top, but it seems that the Primitive Boys are not done yet. This has certainly been the most interesting and controversial Tourament i have ever seen an a message board.

[PbP Bacon]

.....................................

THIS SPACE IS RESERVED :D

.....................................

I will need some time to think my vote.

I have no doubts on WHO wins, my problem is that I can't articulate yet HOW he wins :yep

[janitor]

I confess that I am a little disapointed that it has come down to these two fighters.

We have two fighters elevated to a near mythical status based on televised careers where they built up long title reigns at middleweight but shunned the bigger challenges that were at their disposal.

To the student of boxing history it seems to be the triumph of technicolour over substance.

[Jorodz]

i have to say seeing how this tournament progressed, i sort of expect these two to meet. hagler has always gotten respect but lately it seems to be a monzon renassaince.

anyway, i may be in the minority but i've always felt hagler is the greatest middle of all time. I've rarely seen any fighter, at any weight class with such a complete well rounded arsenal. He was a total fighter in every sense.

That said this is about who would win in this fight, and styles as always make the fight. I see hagler starting a little slow, as he always did against opponents he respects (ala duran) and getting outworked and out timed by monzon early. This is a BIG mistake as once Monzon gets into his rhythm he's almost impossible to break out of it.

The jab and right keep landing for Carlos but by the 6th Hagler is breaking through and landing hard hooks on the inside, trying to wear down Monzon's body. Knowing of his poor training habits, Hagler is working him down for the long haul. However he is still losing the battle of the jabs. Hagler starts making some ground by the 8th and in the 10th a hard hook leads to a flash knockdown.

Monzon rises, furious, and continues his gameplan with disturbing patience, keeping hagler at distance and rocking him with the occasional right hand. It comes down the championship rounds and monzon's timing, ring generalship and jab force hagler to fight at distance, which he is not comfortable with and the rounds, though close, begin the slip away. Hagler is the aggressor and landed the harder shots, but Monzon's firm and patient execution of his gameplan, along with an early lead give him the decision.

Monzon SD 15

*Oh my God I gave it to Monzon....

[Jorodz]

I confess that I am a little disapointed that it has come down to these two fighters.

We have two fighters elevated to a near mythical status based on televised careers where they built up long title reigns at middleweight but shunned the bigger challenges that were at their disposal.

To the student of boxing history it seems to be the triumph of technicolour over substance.

janitor i friggin love this line. I think this is a great fight but i understand your complaint.

[McGrain]

I confess that I am a little disapointed that it has come down to these two fighters.

We have two fighters elevated to a near mythical status based on televised careers where they built up long title reigns at middleweight but shunned the bigger challenges that were at their disposal.

To the student of boxing history it seems to be the triumph of technicolour over substance.


But who, really, who could claim to be out and out better than these two? Arguably Greb? Arguably, and he was stopped by a finalist. Old timers made a good showing in this tournie, Fitzsimmons knocking out Robinson - that wouldn't have happened anywhere but on this forum (or if they had ever fought, from your point of view ;)) and I thought Flowers made a most excellent showing too - what was it, semi-final?

It's a fair representation, I dont' see generational bias at all, just two universally acknowledged exceptional post-Greb MW champoins. It's a good final.


Monzon. I've calculated he is 0.7% better.

[Manassa]

I confess that I am a little disapointed that it has come down to these two fighters.

To the student of boxing history it seems to be the triumph of technicolour over substance.

Snob.

[janitor]

But who, really, who could claim to be out and out better than these two? Arguably Greb? Arguably, and he was stopped by a finalist. Old timers made a good showing in this tournie, Fitzsimmons knocking out Robinson - that wouldn't have happened anywhere but on this forum (or if they had ever fought, from your point of view ;)) and I thought Flowers made a most excellent showing too - what was it, semi-final?

It's a fair representation, I dont' see generational bias at all, just two universally acknowledged exceptional post-Greb MW champoins. It's a good final.


Monzon. I've calculated he is 0.7% better.

The fact that the old timers had a good showing in this tournament makes the final match up more disapointing in some ways.

Imagine if it had been Fitzsimmons Hagler or Monzon Burley?

[janitor]

Snob.

You say that as if its a negative.

[frankenfrank]

Its here people. The final of the Middleweight Tournament. Who will win?

'Marvellous' Marvin Hagler vs Carlos Monzon over 15, 3 minute rounds.

For the ESB Middleweight Tournament Title.
hard question , but (1) hagler struggled more with lesser man than monzon than vice-versa
(2) monzon had the size advantage


to the contrary it can be said that hagler had the better chin , but he wasn't a monster puncher so he wouldn't have stopped monzon.
probably monzon wouldn't have stopped hagler.

i think monzon by close decision

[Ezzard]

Monzon by very close decision. He has the better chance of getting Marvin to lead. The guy who leads in this one loses.

[Boilermaker]

The fact that the old timers had a good showing in this tournament makes the final match up more disapointing in some ways.

Imagine if it had been Fitzsimmons Hagler or Monzon Burley?
I still dont understand how Burley is not in the final considering he got more votes than Hagler!

Dont count the great man out, I am sure GPater will fix the situation when he realises. Dont count the great Burley out yet!

[Smith]

I confess that I am a little disapointed that it has come down to these two fighters.

We have two fighters elevated to a near mythical status based on grainy and little footage where they had good reigns at middleweight.

To the student of boxing history it seems to be the triumph of the old timers over substance.
Or i've changed it to be seen this way.:think.


Theres absolutely nothing wrong with this final, I detect a hint of bias to pre war boxers.

[Smith]

Post of the month and it's only 02/09, (Bill Shankly's birthday by the way)

Great post, really, i visualised that last bit, with the crowd and everything, think i actually heard them in my head.:lol::good I slipped away in a little dream world and done the same thing.

[janitor]

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with this final, I detect a hint of bias to pre war boxers.

Only a hint?

I think that this is one weight class where the pre war fighters are strongest relative to their post war counterparts.

Incidentaly, I think that in the light of history Bernard Hopkins will be ranked higher than both the participants in this final, but in a twist of the tournament he was an early casualty.

[Smith]

Only a hint?

I think that this is one weight class where the pre war fighters are strongest relative to their post war counterparts.

Incidentaly, I think that in the light of history Bernard Hopkins will be ranked higher than both the participants in this final, but in a twist of the tournament he was an early casualty.I really don't know what to say to that. I'll leave it.

[junior-soprano]

well for me impossible to predict.. i would favour monzon. but by close descision.. and i wouldn't be suprised if it was the other way around..
would be a great match-up to watch..

[Unforgiven]

Hagler wins, by 1st round KO.

He just goes demented and comes out throwing all sorts of bombs, hooks, jabs, uppercuts. Monzon falls from a solid right hook to the head, by it's really a half a slip - Monzon isn't really hurt and was caught backing off and tripped a bit as the punch landed - but it counts as a KD. Unfortunately, Carlos twists his ankle really badly and is counted out.

[GPater11093]

I confess that I am a little disapointed that it has come down to these two fighters.

We have two fighters elevated to a near mythical status based on televised careers where they built up long title reigns at middleweight but shunned the bigger challenges that were at their disposal.

To the student of boxing history it seems to be the triumph of technicolour over substance.

I wanted a good final aswell. But ihad to tiebreak and i went out of who would have won the fight

and you cant say theres been not enough surprises

But who, really, who could claim to be out and out better than these two? Arguably Greb? Arguably, and he was stopped by a finalist. Old timers made a good showing in this tournie, Fitzsimmons knocking out Robinson - that wouldn't have happened anywhere but on this forum (or if they had ever fought, from your point of view ;)) and I thought Flowers made a most excellent showing too - what was it, semi-final?

It's a fair representation, I dont' see generational bias at all, just two universally acknowledged exceptional post-Greb MW champoins. It's a good final.


Monzon. I've calculated he is 0.7% better.

:good

had to laugh at the Monzon commet

The fact that the old timers had a good showing in this tournament makes the final match up more disapointing in some ways.

Imagine if it had been Fitzsimmons Hagler or Monzon Burley?

would have been good but not to be

I still dont understand how Burley is not in the final considering he got more votes than Hagler!

Dont count the great man out, I am sure GPater will fix the situation when he realises. Dont count the great Burley out yet!

it was drawn 4-4 and i was the tie break. There was 1 vote extra for Burley but no reason provided

[teeto]

:lol::good I slipped away in a little dream world and done the same thing.
Really it was a great post Smith, i love posts like that.

Anyway, time for me to man up.

I see the argument strongly for Monzon. The way the Argentine fought was so fitting of the label 'King Carlos' he has been given by many scribes. I do want to say before i get into it though, that i've always thought (and said) that the top few middleweights of all time are so hard to split when pitted against each other in our mind's eye. The reason for this is because they were all so good at what they did that it seemingly doesn't matter what their opponent did to exploit their 'weaknesses', which effectively could be non existent at times. It was all about what they did well,and consistenty, they were prolific fighters of epic proportions. It is two of these great fighters that we are trying to split here, Carlos Monzon, and Marvin Hagler.

I do think that Monzon will win the poll, and i cannot argue, he was the middleweight king. Here Monzon would likely score the first points to be earned in the bout, his jab would score, long raking body shots would be scored with the left hand underneath Hagler's right elbow as the Marvelous one advanced. In the next couple of rounds Hagler looks to block shots and counter, stiff right hands are then thrown in his own ditection, again he sees the round out second best.

Marvin Hagler was one of the most complete stylistically, fighters ever, he could also adapt, and it is testament to how prolific a battler he was that whenever he forced the action, switch hitting, making his man fight, he always looked a force of nature and was on top ultimately. On this night, his attempts to outspeed his opponent on the outside (like in his prime he would do), are thwarted by such a stiff jab that he is FORCED to switch tactics. That's right, Marvin Hagler is not dictating a fight. Hagler goes southpaw, his facial expressions becomes all about fighting, and mean, he wings lead right hooks at his man, he digs to the body, he hooks with both hands up top, he ups the tempo. His own face is becoming cut, he's shipping heavy shots from his man who works from the ropes, but he's taking rounds and making up for lost ground on the cards. The late rounds see both men working their own pugilistic brand of magic as best they can, Hagler shortens his shots, lands up and down in succession, without losing balance. Monzon lands heavy one-two's down the pipe, following up with left hooks when his man tries to get reset. Hagler goes all out in the last round and exerts all his energy to not let the King score his own points. Round 15 separates the warriors and Mr. Hagler has his marvelous limb raised in victory. Like Leonard-Duran 1, what happened in the ring on this night is something that money cannot buy, both men left it all in the ring.

I might have picked the wrong man i know, but i have made a pick.

[Mr Butt]

hagler is once again covered in blood but has a slight lead from the early rounds with the middle rounds being shared between the two gladiators with two rounds even, monzon wins the final two rounds

my card -hagler 7-monzon 6-even 2

hagler takes a split decision

[natonic]

Monzon by close decision. Hagler ends the fight bleeding but not broken. I like the previous comment that whoever leads in this fight loses. I think Monzon does enough work with that jab and his abillity to tie up and match Marv's strength on the inside is enough to bank enough rounds. 9-6ish Monzon.

[Boilermaker]

The fact that the old timers had a good showing in this tournament makes the final match up more disapointing in some ways.

Imagine if it had been Fitzsimmons Hagler or Monzon Burley?

We wouldnt have had to imagine, if you actually voted for Burley against Hagler!:lol:

[JohnThomas1]

We wouldnt have had to imagine, if you actually voted for Burley against Hagler!:lol:

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl

Monzon by close decision, with his tactical excellence the only real difference.

[Mr Butt]

bump

[Shake]

Monzon by close UD. Range, durability, strength -- it's going to be close, but I expect Monzon to do the better work.

[red cobra]

Monzon frustrates Hagler throughout most of the night. Those who expect something of the equivalent of Hagler-Hearns are quickly disillusioned as the fight developes into a tactical batlle with Monzon backing and circling sending out the odd probing jab here and there and Hagler ever advancing, pressing in to land to the body. The npatter repeats itself for three or four rounds with Monzon too smart to get trapped in a corner or on the ropes mostly, but when he does he teis up Hagler effectively. Hagler gets through with the left at times in the middle rounds and appears to be fresher and to be coming on, but Monzon is cleverly timimg Haglers rushes with one-twos and begins to introduce Marvin to the right, sparingly thrown. Whenever Hagler gets in range, he is met with a tangle of arms and elbows, then gets grabbed and spun, then the pattern repeats itself. They split rounds 11 (Monzon) AND 12 (Hagler), before going into the no man's land of the rounds 13 thru 15. Monzon comes alive after twisting out of a clinch and scores with one twos and gives Hagler some concern by cutting him badly over the left eye..seeing this Monzon fires a series of three big right hands, and returns to the jab...Monzon spears the bloody eye of Hagler at the bell ending the 13th. Hagler bangs his gloves together and is exhorted by the Petronelli brothers to open up with the heavy artillery, which he does, and stuns Monzon with a right-left combo that drives Carlos to the ropes, and Hagler moves in but Monzon covers up well and when the storm loses momentum, fires his own leather..a left hook followed by a big right buckles Hagler's knees, and the two trade until the bell. The blood still oozes from Haglers eye at the bell beginning the 15th, and after touching gloves, Monzon goes to town with a series of one twos and ties up Hagler on the inside. Monzon jabs away at Hagler, who finally gets a chance to land a few of his own, but they don't land solidly..Monzon fights conservatively, and outboxes Hagler..and lands a huge right on the bad eye moments before the bell. In my scenario, Monzon has essesntially outboxed Hagler for most of the fight, and was never foolish enough to allow himself to be caught by Hagler, by virtue of his superior generalship, though both men display souveneirs of the battle in terms of bruises and swellings, though Monzon's are minor compared to the swollen, lacerated eye of Hagler. The scores are announced and Carlos Monzon is the winner by a unanimous 15 round decision...9 to 6, 10 to 5 and a surprising 8-6-1 on the third card.

[Flea Man]

I would say this HAD to be the final. And for good reason.

I say Hagler takes this IMO. Although I see it as a close fight I think Hagler, by being effective in either stance, fluent boxing AND ability to really mix it up (tactically as well as physically) will see him force Monzon to fight at a harder pace than even he has ever seen.

I see Monzon providing the kind of heavy handed and accurate sharp shoots down the centre that will keep Hagler smart. I just feel Hagler has more answers to Monzons one very effective gear, and will take the early and late rounds (after re-ad******g to Monzon's mid-fight breakthrough; this is when Hagler will have to change up as Monzon will be landing some serious leather and establishing a jab so good Hagler starts to get frustrated) for a 9-6 victory where he is on pure assault mode late on, with Monzon more than happy to oblige. I see Hagler having the right balance of sheer strength, toughness and ability to offset Monzon's effective ring generalship and hard as naills mentality.

[Jorodz]

I would say this HAD to be the final. And for good reason.

I say Hagler takes this IMO. Although I see it as a close fight I think Hagler, by being effective in either stance, fluent boxing AND ability to really mix it up (tactically as well as physically) will see him force Monzon to fight at a harder pace than even he has ever seen.

I see Monzon providing the kind of heavy handed and accurate sharp shoots down the centre that will keep Hagler smart. I just feel Hagler has more answers to Monzons one very effective gear, and will take the early and late rounds (after re-ad******g to Monzon's mid-fight breakthrough; this is when Hagler will have to change up as Monzon will be landing some serious leather and establishing a jab so good Hagler starts to get frustrated) for a 9-6 victory where he is on pure assault mode late on, with Monzon more than happy to oblige. I see Hagler having the right balance of sheer strength, toughness and ability to offset Monzon's effective ring generalship and hard as naills mentality.

even though we see a very different result, very good analysis:good

[GPater11093]

I see the fight being, not boring but hardly the best fight of all time.

I think Hagler takes the early rounds by outworking the calculating Monzon as Hagler was very rarely hit with a jab and could avoid Monzons jab and come in with his own spearing right.

The middle rounds belong to Monzon who starts to time Hagler with the right using the jab to confuse Hagler. Monzon can use his height well here and keep it in the middle of the ring and tie up Hagler inside.

The later rounds are good rounds as Hagler knows the fight is in the balance and he was a very very determined fighter. Hagler comes out in a special way, nothing seems to faze him. He like a ravenous Badger cornered and intent to kill the attacker. He attacks with ferocity and really really wants it. Monzon has to keep up with Hagler and struggles as Hagler really pulls it out the bag late and edges a 8-7 decision.

Key Points

Haglers ability to avoid a jab
Haglers determination
Monzons right hand and timing
Ring Generalship by each man
Inside work

You can discuss the key points

[Flea Man]

I see the fight being, not boring but hardly the best fight of all time.

I think Hagler takes the early rounds by outworking the calculating Monzon as Hagler was very rarely hit with a jab and could avoid Monzons jab and come in with his own spearing right.

The middle rounds belong to Monzon who starts to time Hagler with the right using the jab to confuse Hagler. Monzon can use his height well here and keep it in the middle of the ring and tie up Hagler inside.

The later rounds are good rounds as Hagler knows the fight is in the balance and he was a very very determined fighter. Hagler comes out in a special way, nothing seems to faze him. He like a ravenous Badger cornered and intent to kill the attacker. He attacks with ferocity and really really wants it. Monzon has to keep up with Hagler and struggles as Hagler really pulls it out the bag late and edges a 8-7 decision.

Key Points

Haglers ability to avoid a jab
Haglers determination
Monzons right hand and timing
Ring Generalship by each man
Inside work

You can discuss the key points

Good post, basically as I see it. as Teeto, a very good tournament:good

Don't know as much as I'd like about th Flyweights; hence why I haven't been able to contribute more fully to Sweet Pea's. I have however found the fighters being discussed interesting, it's good to 'discover' fighters you maybe hadn't before.

[GPater11093]

yeh i really like the Flyweight tournament as now i can add abit and learn heaps.

at least most people have seen all the great MWs

[teeto]

Good post, basically as I see it. as Teeto, a very good tournament:good

Don't know as much as I'd like about th Flyweights; hence why I haven't been able to contribute more fully to Sweet Pea's. I have however found the fighters being discussed interesting, it's good to 'discover' fighters you maybe hadn't before.
Yeah there are a few of us in agreement here on this one, good. You are pretty knowledgeable on the lighter greats though, Flea, modest cunt!

Anyway, i'm off now lads, seak to you later or tomorrow maybe.

[Flea Man]

Yeah there are a few of us in agreement here on this one, good. You are pretty knowledgeable on the lighter greats though, Flea, modest cunt!

Anyway, i'm off now lads, seak to you later or tomorrow maybe.

Well the ones I know about I KNOW about.

The ones I'm not as aware of I have only brief knowledge on. Which is why I always thank the likes of Sweet Pea for sharing knowledge, it can only make the discussions more intense if other posters have more knowledge:good

[the cobra]

Monzon UD. By the middle rounds I see him doing a better job of establishing his jab, frustrating Hagler with his defense, timing the right hand, and tying him up whenever Marvin gets close.

10-5 or 9-6 decision.

[Dave's Top Ten]

Monzon UD. By the middle rounds I see him doing a better job of establishing his jab, frustrating Hagler with his defense, timing the right hand, and tying him up whenever Marvin gets close.

10-5 or 9-6 decision.

Hmmm, while I wouldn't argue too strongly that Hagler could win (I struggle to split these two), I just don't see Hagler getting pinned on the end of a jab. Which fight in Hagler's career was he ever on the end of a jab? His soutpaw style made that particularly difficult and he was particularly adept at avoiding the left hand. If anyone's going to have success with a jab in this fight, it's Hagler, and if Hagler were to win then that punch would be the key.

It'd be Monzon's right that would win it, and make Hagler tentative, if Monzon was to come out on top.

[Boilermaker]

This is a tough one, as everyone seems to agree.

Purely on their records, Monzon was more consistent but Hagler was more devastating with quicker KO wins. I think Hagler is faster and stronger and a quite a bit more mobile. His Southpaw stance should also theoretically cause the straight punching of Monzon's some form of difficulty. Both have equally great chins. but i think that the lateral movement of Hagler, combined with his speed is enough to win this one.

[Axl_Nose]

Only a hint?

I think that this is one weight class where the pre war fighters are strongest relative to their post war counterparts.

Incidentaly, I think that in the light of history Bernard Hopkins will be ranked higher than both the participants in this final, but in a twist of the tournament he was an early casualty.

Monzon beats Hagler .. Monzon might have a problem with a slick boxer as in Roy Jones, but i see him handling Hagler over the distance, maybe by 4 or 5 rounds ..

As for Bernard Hopkins, he reigned in one of the weakest Middleweight divisions in history, he made his name beating Trinidad who wasnt a Middleweight. He was involved in the 'scam' of the De La Hoya fight, he was beaten twice by Jermain Taylor who would be fairly easy meat for a top Middleweight .. Hopkins will never appear in the same category as Hagler and Monzon, apart from in the warped scribblings of his ultra die-hard fans .....

[GPater11093]

bump it up

got till friday