A point to consider about BJ Penn

[Popkins]

Penn's record at his optimum weight is 11-1-1. The loss was in his 4th pro fight by majority decision, and was later avenged by submission.

Unlike GSP (TKO'd by Serra at his prime weight) and Anderson Silva (who has 4 losses and has been submitted), Penn has proven close to unbeatable at his weight.

Is Penn better as a lightweight than St Pierre is at welterweight or Silva is at middleweight?

:bbb

[Stoo]

Ummm maybe, but Penns delusions of grandure in fighting above his natural weight is not a stick you should be beating GSP & Anderson with. Thats if Im reading the meaning of your thread correctly

[rusty nails]

its a strong possibility..
the thing that surprises me about bj fighting in higher divisions is that he doesnt seem very physically strong at all.. even at lightweight. yet hes willing to have a go. :think

[Stoo]

its a strong possibility..
the thing that surprises me about bj fighting in higher divisions is that he doesnt seem very physically strong at all.. even at lightweight. yet hes willing to have a go. :think

Dont let his Mom hear you say that :lol:
But yes, you gotta respect Bj fighting the best WW's to test himself, no other LW's would do half as well as Bj v Hughes & GSP (1st round of fight one anyway)

[achillesthegreat]

No, I don't think he is. I think GSP could have similar success at 185 and likewise Silva at 205.

[jimmie]

His resume at 155 still to isnt quite as good as GSPs at 170.

[Popkins]

His resume at 155 still to isnt quite as good as GSPs at 170.

Devil's advocate: Penn has never been stopped though? And Penn has never been beaten by a relative journeyman?

[jimmie]

Devil's advocate: Penn has never been stopped though? And Penn has never been beaten by a relative journeyman?

Thats true about the stoppage but Serra was no journeyman IMO. Serra gave BJ hell at Lightweight and arguablly won the fight.

[Popkins]

Thats true about the stoppage but Serra was no journeyman IMO. Serra gave BJ hell at Lightweight and arguablly won the fight.

Serra was never on the level of Penn, GSP, Hughes etc though. Losing to Serra at your prime weight is not a loss to an elite level guy IMO, and a stoppage defeat to him is a severe black mark. Fair point on Serra-Penn though.

[Sarah]

It's the quality of the fighter not the weight that makes the difference when comparing resume's. Silva's & GSP's wins are more notable it's that simple.

Slipperyness P4P = Penn

Overall skillset P4P = GSP

Striking P4P = Silva

[jimmie]

Serra was never on the level of Penn, GSP, Hughes etc though. Losing to Serra at your prime weight is not a loss to an elite level guy IMO, and a stoppage defeat to him is a severe black mark. Fair point on Serra-Penn though.

He appears to be close to the level then. Theres no doubt he won the Hughes fight, did KO GSP the 1st time and agian the Penn-Serra fight was close. Id like to see Penn fight Serra agian at 155 actually Serras improved a bit since then and id like to see him compete in a weight class hes actually made for.

[Wilhelm]

Penn has never stayed at his "best weight" long enough to really beat top challenger after top challenger after top challenger. He's beaten Sherk and Florian, both of which are huge wins. However, he needs to stay down there long enough to beat Maynard and Edgar and Guida and whoever the fuck else they throw at him. GSP fought lots of great fighters before he was champ and owned them, and the problem with Penn now is that he takes forever between fights. If he stays at 155 for two years and fights three or four times a year and there's legit NO ONE left for him to fight, then we can start talking about him as up there with GSP and Silva.

[jimmie]

Penn has never stayed at his "best weight" long enough to really beat top challenger after top challenger after top challenger. He's beaten Sherk and Florian, both of which are huge wins. However, he needs to stay down there long enough to beat Maynard and Edgar and Guida and whoever the fuck else they throw at him. GSP fought lots of great fighters before he was champ and owned them, and the problem with Penn now is that he takes forever between fights. If he stays at 155 for two years and fights three or four times a year and there's legit NO ONE left for him to fight, then we can start talking about him as up there with GSP and Silva.

Come on man he doesnt really need to fight Clay Guida. The Sanchez fight is supposed have December 12th I think it is so maybe these 6 months minimum they we always have to wait to see BJ fight is over.

[Popkins]

If Penn beats Sanchez, hasn't he more or less cleaned out his division? Who else would be a serious contender for the number 1 spot?

[jimmie]

If Penn beats Sanchez, hasn't he more or less cleaned out his division? Who else would be a serious contender for the number 1 spot?

Maybe Gray Maynard but thats not a fight thats really in serious demand.

[Beebs]

He appears to be close to the level then. Theres no doubt he won the Hughes fight, did KO GSP the 1st time and agian the Penn-Serra fight was close. Id like to see Penn fight Serra agian at 155 actually Serras improved a bit since then and id like to see him compete in a weight class hes actually made for.

There's quite a bit of doubt, largely revolving around the fact that he lost the fight in reality.

The only argument for giving him the fight is ignoring the fact that the only time he actually scored was after an illegal headbut that led directly to a huge advantage. No illegal blows = no offense of any note for Serra.

Thankfully the judges are better at their job than the ref. Had Serra won that fight there would have been serious reasons to have it declarded a no contest; he certainly wouldn't have won it legally.

[Bill Butcher]

Penn's record at his optimum weight is 11-1-1. The loss was in his 4th pro fight by majority decision, and was later avenged by submission.

Unlike GSP (TKO'd by Serra at his prime weight) and Anderson Silva (who has 4 losses and has been submitted), Penn has proven close to unbeatable at his weight.

Is Penn better as a lightweight than St Pierre is at welterweight or Silva is at middleweight?

:bbb

They are all currently as dominant as each other but Penn`s consistency thru the yrs at LWT means he is undisputedly the best ever at 155, the other 2 are arguable if your talking best ever at the weight, they need more victories to solidify that claim.

[achillesthegreat]

They are all currently as dominant as each other but Penn`s consistency thru the yrs at LWT means he is undisputedly the best ever at 155, the other 2 are arguable if your talking best ever at the weight, they need more victories to solidify that claim.

You don't think that all time, GSP is the best 170 and Silva is the best 185?

[Bill Butcher]

You don't think that all time, GSP is the best 170 and Silva is the best 185?

Possibly but not as definite as Penn.

I think Hughes at 170 & Sakuraba at 185 have strong claims too, who at 155 can even pretend to contest Penn ?

[Popkins]

You don't think that all time, GSP is the best 170 and Silva is the best 185?

I think Silva is the best ever at 185, but surely Hughes has a strong claim to be the best welter OAT?

[Vitor Belfort]

They have all dominated their weight class lately. All have fought the best contender in their weight class. But there is more challenge ahead of them to solidify their dominance.

Penn vs Sanchez is a tough fight for bj. Sanchez is a big 155 lb fighter and has improved his striking to go along with his wrestling.

GSP vs kampman or swick would be a tough fight. Kampman has a big punch so he can be dangerous for gsp.

Silva vs henderson or marquardt would be a tough fight for silva too. Marquardt has improve since their last fight and henderson is still dangerous and is a big puncher.

[codeman99998]

I think it's ridiculous to say, at this point, that Hughes All time is a greater Welter than GSP. GSP has better fights against all of their common opponents (minus the Serra loss) and beat Hughes 2 out of 3. GSP has the better record, I think.

[québecwarrior]

GSP has a better record, in fact GSP has a crazy records
Spratt(who beat Lawler),Parisyan,Hieron(good fighter now),Mayhem Miller,Trigg,Sherk,Hughes 2 times, Penn 2 times, Koscheck, Fitch and Alves.
Soon, he will have Swick probably.

The GSP of right now, would beat Hughes 99 times out of 100. No disrespect to Hughes thought, he was a great fighter. A pionner

[BewareofDawg]

GSP is greater then Hughes, anyone that says otherwise is just trying to grasp on to the past. He has a better resume, better performances against his opposition, more dominant over his career and is just the better fighter, can do anything Hughes can do but better, and he proved to be on another level H2H. He just doesn't have the championship wins, but they will come. He has also faced much better competition.

[yesihavearm2]

I agree nearly 100% with the original poster.

Penn at 155 is virtually unbeatable, the fact that he's not afraid of anyone and has fought a lot of his career at much higher weights, hell he fought Lyoto Machida in an open-weight contest when Machida was weighing 215 and Penn was 170. Thats the same sort of thing as GSP or Silva going up to fight Fedor.

Penn didnt just go up in weight and fight alphabet champions or bums, he fought the absolute best (gsp,mach) at higher weights.

[achillesthegreat]

Hughes was no.1 until GSP raped him twice. GSP is irrefutably no.1 for my money.