Tim Witherspoon: "Larry Holmes beat a sick man when he fought ALI" ~ Listen In

[Boxing Girl]

In this 8 minute interview for "On The Ropes" Terrible Tim Witherspoon speaks out about his controversial decision loss to Larry Holmes, sparring with Muhammad Ali, his promotional issues with Don King, his fight with Andrew Golota and the controversial second fight with Bone Crusher Smith where he says knew he was going to down :!:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Full 48 minute show interview Here

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[mr. magoo]

Thanks for that.

This helped to clear up a lot of suspicians that I have always had regarding the James Smith rematch....

[MRBILL]

Christ, we know Ali was Ill, Boxing Babe........... I watched the fight back in '80......... I have a copy on tape now... Take it from me......... In late '80, Ali looked amazing in the publicity photos' at near 220 pounds and his hair dyed jet black; he had me fooled---to a degree.... Come the weigh-in, Ali was 218 and looked like he was young again...... BUT! His speech was off...... Come the fight, Ali showed no speed whatsoever.... By round three, I knew Ali was screwed blue and in trouble...... It was all a hoax........... Larry Holmes was not to be denied at age 30 and 211 pounds............... A terrible PPV from SELECTV........ Jesus Christ, the main event was horrid..............

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

Okay, how do we all know Rums is dead??? Who let the cat out of the box??? Also, what was the actual cause of demise???

MR.BILL:huh:deal

[lefthook31]

His comments regarding the Smith matchup make no sense. "The belt represents power and money, so I gave it to them" :huh
He doesnt understand why he wasnt paid as much as Bruno fighting him in Wembley??
Tim you're a great guy, but a business man you are not.

[mr. magoo]

=lefthook31;4898083]His comments regarding the Smith matchup make no sense. "The belt represents power and money, so I gave it to them" :huh

It makes perfect sense. Regardless of holding a title, the power and money weren't there. He was being robbed blind.



He doesnt understand why he wasnt paid as much as Bruno fighting him in Wembley??


He was the defending WBA champion, while Bruno was a mere contender, yet he made only $95,000 whereas Bruno made $1.5 million, and had the luxury of fighting on his own turf. Does this not seem a tad lop sided to you?


Tim you're a great guy, but a business man you are not.


A business man is only as savvy as his ability to call the shots. His hands were tied, and he was in no position to demand anything. Fighters did not set their fees. The promotors did, and Don King had just about every marketable fighter ( along with the governing bodies ), in his back pocket. For what its worth, Tim made a ballsy move by taking King to court over lost earnings in the Bruno fight, and won.

[Bill Butcher]

Obviously Ali was ill vs Larry, he looked like an imposter.

[MRBILL]

His comments regarding the Smith matchup make no sense. "The belt represents power and money, so I gave it to them" :huh
He doesnt understand why he wasnt paid as much as Bruno fighting him in Wembley??
Tim you're a great guy, but a business man you are not.

Spoon was a damn good fighter who MIGHT'VE been great with some added dedication to his game back in 1984 thru 1990................... Spoon was often lazy and jerkin' off on the side when he should've been serious....... However, yes, he fucked up bad against Jimmy Smith in 1986 up in New York........ Ol' Spoon entered the ring looking like he just crawled outta bed with a couple of broads; he was whipped galore.... He had no speed or reflexes, and no eye of the tiger to win.... BUT! I was stoked for Smith at the time...........

Then Ol' "Lazy Bones" Smith looked like an idiot holding and hugging Tyson to death in early '87....... I was livid........:twisted: I thought that was gonna be a wicked fireworks display on regular HBO...... :rofl I was pissed.......:fire

MR.BILL

[lefthook31]

It makes perfect sense. Regardless of holding a title, the power and money weren't there. He was being robbed blind.




He was the defending WBA champion, while Bruno was a mere contender, yet he made only $95,000 whereas Bruno made $1.5 million, and had the luxury of fighting on his own turf. Does this not seem a tad lop sided to you?



A business man is only as savvy as his ability to call the shots. His hands were tied, and he was in no position to demand anything. Fighters did not set their fees. The promotors did, and Don King had just about every marketable fighter ( along with the governing bodies ), in his back pocket. For what its worth, Tim made a ballsy move by taking King to court over lost earnings in the Bruno fight, and won.
Your obviously not a business man either. Sometimes you have to invest a little to ultimately call the shots ala Bernard Hopkins.
Bruno was a far more popular fighter, and could fill Wembley Stadium. Tim couldnt fill his backyard. Does this make sense to you?

[MRBILL]

Your obviously not a business man either. Sometimes you have to invest a little to ultimately call the shots ala Bernard Hopkins.
Bruno was a far more popular fighter, and could fill Wembley Stadium. Tim couldnt fill his backyard. Does this make sense to you?

Business or no business, King did screw Spoon a great deal in 1986........... The fact that "Smith-Bruno" was held in London should've been a plus factor for Spoon................. Spoon was the WBA chump...... Bruno was the beloved countryman looking to win a title.......... Fact is, Spoon and Bruno needed each other to make money........... In all fairness, that fight would've and should've been a rare case in which both champion and challenger earn purse parity and each walks away fair and equal, win or lose................. KING ROBBED Spoon's purse money and left him hanging in the wind........... King could NOT screw Bruno nearly as good since Bruno had other links to English business men who would not tolerate King's bullshit............
:deal

MR.BILL


Note:

King never would've gotten out of England in one piece had he jacked team Bruno around on the money....... King knew that, too.....

[mr. magoo]

KING ROBBED Spoon's purse money and left him hanging in the wind........... King could NOT screw Bruno nearly as good since Bruno had other links to English business men who would not tolerate King's bullshit............
:deal

MR.BILL


Note:

King never would've gotten out of England in one piece had he jacked team Bruno around on the money....... King knew that, too.....


Nicely done.. :clap:

Hopfully right cross will get it..

[lefthook31]

Business or no business, King did screw Spoon a great deal in 1986........... The fact that "Smith-Bruno" was held in London should've been a plus factor for Spoon................. Spoon was the WBA chump...... Bruno was the beloved countryman looking to win a title.......... Fact is, Spoon and Bruno needed each other to make money........... In all fairness, that fight would've and should've been a rare case in which both champion and challenger earn purse parity and each walks away fair and equal, win or lose................. KING ROBBED Spoon's purse money and left him hanging in the wind........... King could NOT screw Bruno nearly as good since Bruno had other links to English business men who would not tolerate King's bullshit............
:deal

MR.BILL


Note:

King never would've gotten out of England in one piece had he jacked team Bruno around on the money....... King knew that, too.....
Nothing new with King. Just recently King was paid 350K to deliver Vic Darchinians opponent. He paid the guy who retained his title 30K.
How do you become in control of your own destiny? You keep winning. Promoters like King put up a lot of money to stage fights and fighters. When the fighter becomes popular he thinks its only because of him, but the fact is the promoter invests a lot in the beginning when they're not a household name. Witherspoon could have ultimately kept "winning" and moved onto bigger and better things, especially if he had a shot at Tyson next.
As I said in a previous post, Don King threw everything at Hopkins but the kitchen sink, and he couldnt get his title away from him. That title is ultimately what put Hopkins in control as he had something King wanted for Trinidad, just as Spoon would have had something King NEEDED to continue promoting Tyson fights.

[lefthook31]

Nicely done.. :clap:

Hopfully right cross will get it..
Your as dumb as Spoon, thats why you will never get it. :good

[MRBILL]

Yepper....... Had Spoon beaten Smith in 1986, he'd have fought Tyson in early '87 on HBO for some more dough in a high-profile fight...... BUT! Smith had a huge / peak year for his career in 1986........ Smith beat "Weaver, Ferguson, Bey & Spoon" to round out the year..... That helped make "Smith-Tyson" very popular in 1987...........

Spoon got real lazy after beating Tony Blubbs in Jan. 1986 on HBO for the WBA belt...... Spoon was 227 for Blubbs, but then shot upward of 233 to 235 pounds for his fights with Bruno and Smith......... Spoon would've been harpooned by Tyson if he tried coming in at 235 soft pounds of lard in 1987..... Had Spoon somehow managed to get passed Smith in '86, Spoon would've had to get really serious in training or Tyson would for sure KO him in 1987...........

MR.BILL

[mr. magoo]

Your as dumb as Spoon, thats why you will never get it. :good

Well you're the only personal who I have ever heard in 20 years say that the Spoon - Bruno deal was fair, so what does that say?

[lefthook31]

Yepper....... Had Spoon beaten Smith in 1986, he'd have fought Tyson in early '87 on HBO for some more dough in a high-profile fight...... BUT! Smith had a huge / peak year for his career in 1986........ Smith beat "Weaver, Ferguson, Bey & Spoon" to round out the year..... That helped make "Smith-Tyson" very popular in 1987...........

Spoon got real lazy after beating Tony Blubbs in Jan. 1986 on HBO for the WBA belt...... Spoon was 227 for Blubbs, but then shot upward of 233 to 235 pounds for his fights with Bruno and Smith......... Spoon would've been harpooned by Tyson if he tried coming in at 235 soft pounds of lard in 1987..... Had Spoon somehow managed to get passed Smith in '86, Spoon would've had to get really serious in training or Tyson would for sure KO him in 1987...........

MR.BILL
King controlled the titles. He had ALL the heavyweights signed except for a couple that didnt need King. Spoon was not one of those fighters. They signed with him because he controlled the division and the titles. Along comes fighters like Mike Tyson, and Frank Bruno who are independently promoted, but have huge drawing power. The fighters that King owned had no drawing power on their own. Even the titles amongst this group did little else than give King bargaining chips to make fights with the bigger names, thus the reasoning of why he couldnt care less whose name was attached to it. The fighters that King promoted were more like employees rather than getting a promotional cut. I think Spoon admits he understood this later on, but his reasoning at the time was very foolish.
Throw the fight against Smith, lose his only bargaining chip, sue King and spend money on legal fees. Wind up with nothing, start over in a division that was completely controlled by King?

[lefthook31]

Well you're the only personal who I have ever heard in 20 years say that the Spoon - Bruno deal was fair, so what does that say?
Fair or typical? You get title fights when you sign with King, not paid. If he didnt realize this going in, hes as stupid as you are.

[ChrisPontius]

Nothing new with King. Just recently King was paid 350K to deliver Vic Darchinians opponent. He paid the guy who retained his title 30K.
How do you become in control of your own destiny? You keep winning. Promoters like King put up a lot of money to stage fights and fighters. When the fighter becomes popular he thinks its only because of him, but the fact is the promoter invests a lot in the beginning when they're not a household name. Witherspoon could have ultimately kept "winning" and moved onto bigger and better things, especially if he had a shot at Tyson next.
As I said in a previous post, Don King threw everything at Hopkins but the kitchen sink, and he couldnt get his title away from him. That title is ultimately what put Hopkins in control as he had something King wanted for Trinidad, just as Spoon would have had something King NEEDED to continue promoting Tyson fights.


No doubt that promoters take a risk, but you're making way too much excuses for King. He has been robbing fighters ever since he became a big time promoter since Ali-Foreman. He knows 99% of all boxers come from poor background and are neither smart nor good business men. He charms them into trusting him, but ultimately robs them and takes way too much money. I'm not saying other promoters are clean (it is a dirty business), but King knew damn well what he did..

[mr. magoo]

lefthook31;4898704]Fair or typical? You get title fights when you sign with King, not paid.


Here, read this ( if you're capable ). Pay particular attention to the comment in red.

Witherspoon's second reign as a Heavyweight champion saw him travel to London, England and defend his title against hard hitting local Frank Bruno ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) in front of 60,000 fans. After a tough, bruising fight, Witherspoon came from behind to stop Bruno in the 11th, retaining his title. After the fight, Bruno would receive a million sterling from his promoters. Witherspoon, due the same amount, devastatingly received less than $100,000 after Don King's creative accounting and deductions.

If he didnt realize this going in, hes as stupid as you are.

Yes, when I SIGN A CONTRACT clearly stating that I am owed a certain amount, upon performing a specific task, I expect to get paid. For the less educated, this is how business is done. To breach a contract, is against the law, and King was rightfully taken to court over it.

Now tell me something, do you sign contracts that you don't intend for the other party to honor? If so, then I seriously have to question your intelligence. Its also rather daft of anyone to think that its standard practice for the CHALLENGER to recieve close to 12 times the size purse as the defending champion......

[lefthook31]

No doubt that promoters take a risk, but you're making way too much excuses for King. He has been robbing fighters ever since he became a big time promoter since Ali-Foreman. He knows 99% of all boxers come from poor background and are neither smart nor good business men. He charms them into trusting him, but ultimately robs them and takes way too much money. I'm not saying other promoters are clean (it is a dirty business), but King knew damn well what he did..
Hey Im not saying its right, but like you said King was doing it since the early 70's, you knew what you got when you signed with King. King was and is the biggest dirtbag in the world, and Im not giving him all the credit, but some should be given to him. He did charm them into trusting them, because of what he had, the titles! Most fighters want the title, and because they came from poor backgrounds, they dont know anything about money or business of boxing. Thats why arming yourself with a good manager is just as important, but were talking about no name fighters here, that were signed in a gym, by King, his son, or his cohorts. They were given opportunities they would have most likely never gotten or gotten as quickly as King provided, and thats the only credit King should get.

[lefthook31]

Here, read this ( if you're capable ). Pay particular attention to the comment in red.

Witherspoon's second reign as a Heavyweight champion saw him travel to London, England and defend his title against hard hitting local Frank Bruno ([Only registered and activated users can see links]) in front of 60,000 fans. After a tough, bruising fight, Witherspoon came from behind to stop Bruno in the 11th, retaining his title. After the fight, Bruno would receive a million sterling from his promoters. Witherspoon, due the same amount, devastatingly received less than $100,000 after Don King's creative accounting and deductions.



Yes, when I SIGN A CONTRACT clearly stating that I am owed a certain amount, upon performing a specific task, I expect to get paid. For the less educated, this is how business is done. To breach a contract, is against the law, and King was rightfully taken to court over it.

Now tell me something, do you sign contracts that you don't intend for the other party to honor? If so, then I seriously have to question your intelligence. Its also rather daft of anyone to think that its standard practice for the CHALLENGER to recieve close to 12 times the size purse as the defending champion......
And what was the verdict of that lawsuit? King was always taken to court, not because of breach most of the time, but because of how unfair it was. Do you know what his contract consisted of with King and what Spoon was responsible for? No. He could have been responsible for paying everyones first class ticket over to Wembley and back and their living arrangements plus buying them all new Ferraris upon their return. Do you think Spoon or most of the fighters read the contracts? Were their managers acting in their best interest, or on Kings payroll?
Was King, his son, or someone acting as his manager ulitmately connected to King? Most likely. Thats where the creative accounting comes in. Thats how King robbed all his fighters, including Mike Tyson. Is charging Tyson 30K for an oil change fair, no, but thats how King did it. He setup managers to manage his fighters and then charged their companies
exorbitant amounts of money, twenty times the actual cost. Is it a form of embezzlement, yes, but how many fighters could afford to sue King?
Tyson settled for what 8 million on a 100 million dollar lawsuit?

[mr. magoo]

=lefthook31;4898835]And what was the verdict of that lawsuit?
King was always taken to court, not because of breach most of the time, but because of how unfair it was. Do you know what his contract consisted of with King and what Spoon was responsible for? No. He could have been responsible for paying everyones first class ticket over to Wembley and back and their living arrangements plus buying them all new Ferraris upon their return. Do you think Spoon or most of the fighters read the contracts? Were their managers acting in their best interest, or on Kings payroll?
Was King, his son, or someone acting as his manager ulitmately connected to King? Most likely. Thats where the creative accounting comes in. Thats how King robbed all his fighters, including Mike Tyson. Is charging Tyson 30K for an oil change fair, no, but thats how King did it. He setup managers to manage his fighters and then charged their companies
exorbitant amounts of money, twenty times the actual cost. Is it a form of embezzlement, yes, but how many fighters could afford to sue King?
Tyson settled for what 8 million on a 100 million dollar lawsuit?

Spoon took King and his son Carl to court, and filed a suit asking for $25 million dollars. King offered to settle for $1 million and Spoon took it. No matter how you try to fudge the facts, Spoon got fucked.

[lefthook31]

Spoon took King and his son Carl to court, and filed a suit asking for $25 million dollars. King offered to settle for $1 million and Spoon took it. No matter how you try to fudge the facts, Spoon got fucked.
See, Carl King, Monarch Management. Owned and controlled completely by Don King. So Spoon was managed promoted and completely owned by Don King, backing up what I said before. Hes on a long long list of fighters who got fucked.
Ricardo Mayorga also managed by Carl King and promoted by Don King, just filed a lawsuit last week against King allegeing the same misfortunes. King pulled Mayorga out of a gym in Nicarauga and got him a title shot against Andrew Six Heads Lewis, another fighter who at the time was embroiled in a lawsuit against King. The rest is history. It will happen as long as that man is promoting fighters.

[MRBILL]

Signed contracts? YES! Many of King's contracts are signed before a major fight takes place.. However, it has also been widely reported that King had dudes like "Spoon and Chavez" signing their names to "Blank" contracts and King would later fill in all the blank slots to his liking........... Spoon has already admitted that he did indeed sign a few papers that were blank................ Folks, that is pretty dumb.............

MR.BILL

[mr. magoo]

See, Carl King, Monarch Management. Owned and controlled completely by Don King. So Spoon was managed promoted and completely owned by Don King, backing up what I said before. Hes on a long long list of fighters who got fucked.
Ricardo Mayorga also managed by Carl King and promoted by Don King, just filed a lawsuit last week against King allegeing the same misfortunes. King pulled Mayorga out of a gym in Nicarauga and got him a title shot against Andrew Six Heads Lewis, another fighter who at the time was embroiled in a lawsuit against King. The rest is history. It will happen as long as that man is promoting fighters.


But none of these things justify labeling Witherspoon as being ignorant or " stupid " for taking the Bruno fight or any others. The King family was in control. They signed a contract.. They broke it....And Witherspoon got fucked... It also does not explain nor justify Bruno getting more money.. As for Witherspoon's decision to drop the Smith fight in the tank to free himself of King, well I don't know if it was the right thing to do, but I can see the logic behind it.

[lefthook31]

Signed contracts? YES! Many of King's contracts are signed before a major fight takes place.. However, it has also been widely reported that King had dudes like "Spoon and Chavez" signing their names to "Blank" contracts and King would later fill in all the blank slots to his liking........... Spoon has already admitted that he did indeed sign a few papers that were blank................ Folks, that is pretty dumb.............

MR.BILL
Sign here, your going to be champion of the world. Ill take care of you, trust me your going to be a star and make millions. Welcome to the world of big business.
You think thats bad, let's talk about the music business! :lol:

[lefthook31]

But none of these things justify labeling Witherspoon as being ignorant or " stupid " for taking the Bruno fight or any others. The King family was in control. They signed a contract.. They broke it....And Witherspoon got fucked... It also does not explain nor justify Bruno getting more money.. As for Witherspoon's decision to drop the Smith fight in the tank to free himself of King, well I don't know if it was the right thing to do, but I can see the logic behind it.

The FACT is he was ignorant, and most likely stupid too, but certainly ignorant, for signing blank papers, or signing with a manager who is the son of the devil. That in itself is red light and a huge conflict of interest.
If your saying Witherspoon was a good guy and fighter, and just wanted a fair piece of the pie, yeah sure, but like I said, unless you were a box office smash on your own, and didnt need the promotional services of Don King to land super fights, you played on his terms.
Without King, Witherspoon could have never landed a title shot, or even fought for 90K, and thats how King sees it. He believes without him these guys wouldnt have a chance in hell of earning any serious money. I know Don King, he is so ridiculously enamoured by money, you can go to his office in Deerfield Beach Florida and meet with him to buy old fight posters and promotional material. He will personally sit there and set the prices for the shit. The guy is a reported billionaire, but he will sit there and collect his 100 bucks for posters..

[mr. magoo]

The FACT is he was ignorant, and most likely stupid too, but certainly ignorant, for signing blank papers, or signing with a manager who is the son of the devil. That in itself is red light and a huge conflict of interest.
If your saying Witherspoon was a good guy and fighter, and just wanted a fair piece of the pie, yeah sure, but like I said, unless you were a box office smash on your own, and didnt need the promotional services of Don King to land super fights, you played on his terms.
Without King, Witherspoon could have never landed a title shot, or even fought for 90K, and thats how King sees it. He believes without him these guys wouldnt have a chance in hell of earning any serious money. I know Don King, he is so ridiculously enamoured by money, you can go to his office in Deerfield Beach Florida and meet with him to buy old fight posters and promotional material. He will personally sit there and set the prices for the shit. The guy is a reported billionaire, but he will sit there and collect his 100 bucks for posters..

Did you see these " unsigned contracts " or are you just taking Mr. Bill's word for it, because it seems like an easy way out of a debate that you once again can't hold on your own? Don King readily wrote a check to Witherspoon to avoid going to court. If he was a billionaire who indeed spent time finaggling over $100.00 posters just to amuse himself ( like you say ), then I doubt he would so willingly wright a $100,000,000 check just to get a guy off his back, especially considering the further damage that it did to his reputation. Unless, of course he had something hide, or knew he couldn't win. Had Witherspoon foolishly signed an unwritten agreement, then he'd clearly have nothing to fight with in court, and King would have known this....

Witherspoon started off doing what every other man including Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, and Larry Holmes did. He bit the bullet, swallowed his pride, and got raped. But, he took things a step further and did what no other fighter had ever done.... He stood up to King and basically won.. That to me constitutes both heart and intelligence....

[lefthook31]

Did you see these " unsigned contracts " or are you just taking Mr. Bill's word for it, because it seems like an easy way out of a debate that you once again can't hold on your own? Don King readily wrote a check to Witherspoon to avoid going to court. If he was a billionaire who indeed spent time finaggling over $100.00 posters just to amuse himself ( like you say ), then I doubt he would so willingly wright a $100,000,000 check just to get a guy off his back, especially considering the further damage that it did to his reputation. Unless, of course he had something hide, or knew he couldn't win. Had Witherspoon foolishly signed an unwritten agreement, then he'd clearly have nothing to fight with in court, and King would have known this....

Witherspoon started off doing what every other man including Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, and Larry Holmes did. He bit the bullet, swallowed his pride, and got raped. But, he took things a step further and did what no other fighter had ever done.... He stood up to King and basically won.. That to me constitutes both heart and intelligence....
Cant hold my own?? There's a reason why people call you an obnoxious cunt, and this is why. There are plenty of books written by fighters which have copies of the blatant one sided contracts that King presented to fighters that they did sign. They all claim their managers were at fault or that they trusted King. If this is news to you, they can easily be found on the internet or ebay.
Witherspoon was not the first, nor the last to sue King for a contract dispute. He didnt do anything other than ruin his own boxing career thinking he could take down King. "Stood up to King and won" Hmm lets see, after legal feels he probably received a 1/3 of the million, he was blackballed from the heavyweight division, and blew a chance at fighting Mike Tyson. If you consider that winning, well, dont ever become a boxing manager, or an attorney for that matter.
For the record, how could you even begin to discuss a contract when you cant even spell "write" or put a million dollars in the proper numerical order??

[mr. magoo]

For the record, how could you even begin to discuss a contract when you cant even spell "write" or put a million dollars in the proper numerical order??


I saw those mistakes right before I clicked submit last night, but was too tired to change them and figured that they were well suited to the audience... :hi:

[mr. magoo]

=lefthook31;4903061]Cant hold my own?? There's a reason why people call you an obnoxious cunt, and this is why.

Common. What about these comments?


If he didnt realize this going in, hes as stupid as you are.



Your as dumb as Spoon, thats why you will never get it. :good






There are plenty of books written by fighters which have copies of the blatant one sided contracts that King presented to fighters that they did sign. They all claim their managers were at fault or that they trusted King. If this is news to you, they can easily be found on the internet or ebay.

Perhaps, but my only question is have you seen the contracts that Witherspoon signed specifically.

Witherspoon was not the first, nor the last to sue King for a contract dispute.

I was always under the impression that he was at least the first.


He didnt do anything other than ruin his own boxing career thinking he could take down King.

His career was already trashed long before going to court with King..


"Stood up to King and won" Hmm lets see, after legal feels he probably received a 1/3 of the million, he was blackballed from the heavyweight division, and blew a chance at fighting Mike Tyson

Witherspoon chosing to throw the Smith fight in the tank and missing out on a shot at Tyson had absolutely nothing to do with Spoon taking King to court over lost earnings in the Bruno fight....Nothing whatsoever. And yes, taking a settlement for one million dollars is still better than letting the man get away with robbery.


. If you consider that winning, well, dont ever become a boxing manager, or an attorney for that matter.

I have no desire to endeavor to do either of those things.


For the record, how could you even begin to discuss a contract when you cant even spell "write" or put a million dollars in the proper numerical order??]



Saw the mistakes last night...Was too lazy to correct them.

[lefthook31]

Yeah sure you did. Nice try though. Noone has called me a cunt on this board. I may be confrontational with some but you bring out the fun stuff. Way to change your first insulting post. I was going to hurl some more insults right back at you, so you could add them to your list. Hell, I will anyway. What are you trying to accomplish? Are you looking for a gang of angry posters to try and make a negative comment towards me? I dont really care what you, or anyone thinks, and your constant longing for reinforcement by others, is a serious personal problem that you shouldnt be looking to pacify on a message board. Were you not loved as a child? Did your parents always put you down, and make fun of you?
As far as your rambling obsessive post, time to put it to a rest, but Im sure that's not going to happen.:dead

[mr. magoo]

Yeah sure you did. Nice try though. Noone has called me a cunt on this board. I may be confrontational with some but you bring out the fun stuff. Way to change your first insulting post. I was going to hurl some more insults right back at you, so you could add them to your list. Hell, I will anyway. What are you trying to accomplish? Are you looking for a gang of angry posters to try and make a negative comment towards me? I dont really care what you, or anyone thinks, and your constant longing for reinforcement by others, is a serious personal problem that you shouldnt be looking to pacify on a message board. Were you not loved as a child? Did your parents always put you down, and make fun of you?
As far as your rambling obsessive post, time to put it to a rest, but Im sure that's not going to happen.:dead

As you said, I cleaned up my first post. This sort of nastiness isn't particularly necessary, but I'm not going to contribute to it any longer. You stick to what you believe and I'll do the same. From now on, where both probably better off avoiding the other....

[Rumsfeld]

Witherspoon started off doing what every other man including Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, and Larry Holmes did. He bit the bullet, swallowed his pride, and got raped. But, he took things a step further and did what no other fighter had ever done.... He stood up to King and basically won.. That to me constitutes both heart and intelligence....

That makes two of us.
:good

[MRBILL]

Where the hell is Boxing Babe at?

[Boxing Girl]

His comments regarding the Smith matchup make no sense. "The belt represents power and money, so I gave it to them" :huh
He doesnt understand why he wasnt paid as much as Bruno fighting him in Wembley??
Tim you're a great guy, but a business man you are not.

Well thats cause he was told he was going to get more....he talked about the in the full interview we did with him.....he said something around 600,000 was what he should of cut and it was cut to 95,000....Don King cheated a lot of fighters in the 80's and 90's....but look where he is now.

[Boxing Girl]

Thanks for that.

This helped to clear up a lot of suspicians that I have always had regarding the James Smith rematch....

ya that was really interesting what he had to say about that fight, for the video is seems hes trying his best but came in there with the wrong mind set.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[MRBILL]

ya that was really interesting what he had to say about that fight, for the video is seems hes trying his best but came in there with the wrong mind set.

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Boxing Babe,

I got video tapes older than you......... I watched / taped "Smith-Spoon" in '86 as it occured.........

I even saw Spoon school Smith in '85 on HBO on the undercard to "Thomas-Weaver." Spoon fell apart within a scant year and a half.........
:bbb:deal:rasta

MR.BILL

[lefthook31]

Well thats cause he was told he was going to get more....he talked about the in the full interview we did with him.....he said something around 600,000 was what he should of cut and it was cut to 95,000....Don King cheated a lot of fighters in the 80's and 90's....but look where he is now.
Yes I understand what you are saying but here is another example of what was common place with Don King. For the Tyson Holy fight, Tyson was getting supposedly 30 million dollars? The contract stated it, he announced it publicly, and his managers acknowledged it. What they didnt know and 99.9% of the fighters didnt know that were exclusively signed to King, was all the responsibilities that the fighter had to pay for before getting their final cut.
What King did to Spoon was the same thing he did with Tyson only under Mike Tyson Enterprises which had John Horne and Rory Holloway acting as managers for Tyson (but really working for salary under Don King), instead of Monarch Management run by Carl King, (Don's step son)
King took over their entire life, from their house payments, cars, cell phones, living expenses, sparring partners, etc. King would hire or purchase what was needed for the fighter through his company (Don King Enterprises) and then charge the management company an exhorbitant amount. For example he would pay Oliver Mcall 1,000 a week to spar with Tyson. King would then turn around and charge Mike Tyson Enterprises 100,000.00 for sparring partner services for the entire camp. So King would spend roughly 6-10 grand for the sparring partner, and turn around and charge Tyson ten times that. He did this with everything down the line. Everything had to be run through the management company with Kings approval. So the fighter would think he was getting 30 million or 600K but by the time King subtracted all the camp related and fight related expenses, they wound up with nothing or very little.
Where King usually made mistakes was the unfair charges he made against the fighters, like charging Mike Tyson 30,000.00 for an oil change on his Ferrari. The reason he settled with some of the guys is because he had made a ton off of them already, and most of them couldnt afford to sue King. Giving Witherspoon a million bucks was probably nothing compared to what he stole from him overall, and thats how King did it and still does it today. He has an army of lawyers working for him and he is right up there as being as smart and savvy as all the lawyers.
Tyson was in such dire straights financially when he was sueing King, he had to settle for pennies on the dollar, because King had the money to keep paying his attorneys to postpone and postpone the court dates.
Judd Burnstein a prominent fight attorney was the only one who seemed to consistently kick Don King's ass, with Lennox Lewis related lawsuits and a few others, so King just hired the guy. Money is power, and Witherspoon's attorney should have advised him to keep fighting and winning until he was free of his bum contract he signed with King. If it was a lifetime contract which King liked to do, (and was eventually outlawed when the Ali act was passed), well he really had no other choice than what he did.
You say look where he is now? He's a billionaire that made it by stepping on everyone he could flying around in private jets and living in a huge mansion in Manalipan Florida. Hes almost 80 years old now, but hes had quite the career. As much as hes hated, he was the first to pay a fighter a million bucks for a fight, and realistically is responsible for revolutionizing the pay scale in boxing. Before King boxers never made close to what they make today, and while hes been a cheat and a thief, hes one of the main players responsbile for making boxing as popular as it became.

[lefthook31]

Anyone interested in reading about King this book is excellent. King tried to sue Newfield over the content but lost. Every fighter should have read this book before signing with King.:lol:

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[Boxing Girl]

When I say look where he is now it's the promotional level, he has done quite well for himself to get to where he got from where he started, and im sure he is quite wealthy from all of hims "dealing", but promotional wise when the fight game changed and promoters were getting looked at more closely he stopped being a top promoter, he has fallen from his great heights and a lot of the top fighters try to avoid getting stuck under his banner....but he has created some of the biggest events in history, but it seems his time is done as a top promoter


Yes I understand what you are saying but here is another example of what was common place with Don King. For the Tyson Holy fight, Tyson was getting supposedly 30 million dollars? The contract stated it, he announced it publicly, and his managers acknowledged it. What they didnt know and 99.9% of the fighters didnt know that were exclusively signed to King, was all the responsibilities that the fighter had to pay for before getting their final cut.
What King did to Spoon was the same thing he did with Tyson only under Mike Tyson Enterprises which had John Horne and Rory Holloway acting as managers for Tyson (but really working for salary under Don King), instead of Monarch Management run by Carl King, (Don's step son)
King took over their entire life, from their house payments, cars, cell phones, living expenses, sparring partners, etc. King would hire or purchase what was needed for the fighter through his company (Don King Enterprises) and then charge the management company an exhorbitant amount. For example he would pay Oliver Mcall 1,000 a week to spar with Tyson. King would then turn around and charge Mike Tyson Enterprises 100,000.00 for sparring partner services for the entire camp. So King would spend roughly 6-10 grand for the sparring partner, and turn around and charge Tyson ten times that. He did this with everything down the line. Everything had to be run through the management company with Kings approval. So the fighter would think he was getting 30 million or 600K but by the time King subtracted all the camp related and fight related expenses, they wound up with nothing or very little.
Where King usually made mistakes was the unfair charges he made against the fighters, like charging Mike Tyson 30,000.00 for an oil change on his Ferrari. The reason he settled with some of the guys is because he had made a ton off of them already, and most of them couldnt afford to sue King. Giving Witherspoon a million bucks was probably nothing compared to what he stole from him overall, and thats how King did it and still does it today. He has an army of lawyers working for him and he is right up there as being as smart and savvy as all the lawyers.
Tyson was in such dire straights financially when he was sueing King, he had to settle for pennies on the dollar, because King had the money to keep paying his attorneys to postpone and postpone the court dates.
Judd Burnstein a prominent fight attorney was the only one who seemed to consistently kick Don King's ass, with Lennox Lewis related lawsuits and a few others, so King just hired the guy. Money is power, and Witherspoon's attorney should have advised him to keep fighting and winning until he was free of his bum contract he signed with King. If it was a lifetime contract which King liked to do, (and was eventually outlawed when the Ali act was passed), well he really had no other choice than what he did.
You say look where he is now? He's a billionaire that made it by stepping on everyone he could flying around in private jets and living in a huge mansion in Manalipan Florida. Hes almost 80 years old now, but hes had quite the career. As much as hes hated, he was the first to pay a fighter a million bucks for a fight, and realistically is responsible for revolutionizing the pay scale in boxing. Before King boxers never made close to what they make today, and while hes been a cheat and a thief, hes one of the main players responsbile for making boxing as popular as it became.

[lefthook31]

Most people are retired by 65, hes 78. Just yesterday he signed Sergei Liahovich and Steve Forbes. Never count out the Donald, until he officially announces his retirement. :hey

[Dr. Iron Fist]

Most people are retired by 65, hes 78. Just yesterday he signed Sergei Liahovich and Steve Forbes. Never count out the Donald, until he officially announces his retirement. :hey

haha, what great pick ups, you got Liahovich 0-2 in his last and who got owned by Shannon Briggs and just sat there and took punches against that bag of shit Valuev, and then you got Steve Forbes who is 2-3 in his last 5. So Don King is done, it's time for K2 promotions to take over boxing.

[lefthook31]

haha, what great pick ups, you got Liahovich 0-2 in his last and who got owned by Shannon Briggs and just sat there and took punches against that bag of shit Valuev, and then you got Steve Forbes who is 2-3 in his last 5. So Don King is done, it's time for K2 promotions to take over boxing.
King has a piece of the WBA heavyweight champion. Hes got a couple junior welter titliest. A lightweight, and a few other heavies. King is always on the move, moving his chess pieces and positioning them for title fights. All it takes is one upset and hes back in control of a division. Thats how hes always done it. Noone thought he would be able to get control of the heavyweight titles before Tyson was released from jail and he did it. That allowed him to sign Tyson.
Fighters are a lot smarter now, they promote themselves if they can afford to, and Oscars company has put a big hurting on both Arum and King, by snatching up most of the HBO dates. The Klitschkos cant even consistently get on American tv and they dominate heavyweight boxing, so dont look for them to become a promotional force anytime soon, especially with Vitali being on his way out of boxing.