"Ali-Marciano" '69 comp. fight...

[MRBILL]

Folks,

I bought the DVD from Amazon a while ago..... A great gift for any fight fan...... I love it, despite it being loaded with plenty of bullshit....

No way in hell Rocco Marciano gets Ali pinned against the ropes for any great length of time to absorb punishment... Not gonna happen........ Ali never worked off the ropes until he fought Frazier in 1971 at a rusty 29 yrs of age....

Prime-4-prime, a '67 version of Ali pitted against a '52 version of Marciano, is a SOLID lock / win for Ali in my book..... Marciano rarely gets off with a decent combo against the overally spry and slick Ali....... I'm sorry, but Ali batters Marciano into a mid to late rds TKO, with the stoppage being a result of too many cuts and blood flowing from Marciano's face.... Ali wins....

Again, no way in hell, Marciano ever beats Ali............ I am talkin' bout BOTH guys in their primes stemming from 1952 and 1967................
:bbb:deal:hat

SR.BILLARDO:think

[laxpdx]

Interesting...and ironic they have Rocky winning. I think 1967 is the only version of Ali that could ever have beaten prime Marciano.

[MRBILL]

Interesting...and ironic they have Rocky winning. I think 1967 is the only version of Ali that could ever have beaten prime Marciano.

WOW! I have Ali winning anything between 1964 thru 1975 with little to no problem against The Rockster............
:hey

MR.BILL

[kosaros]

Interesting...and ironic they have Rocky winning. I think 1967 is the only version of Ali that could ever have beaten prime Marciano.

Really?

[laxpdx]

WOW! I have Ali winning anything between 1964 thru 1975 with little to no problem against The Rockster............
:hey

MR.BILL

Correction. I meant '64-'67 Ali, aka peak version.

[laxpdx]

Really?

I feel Ali of the 60's, given his speed and overall talent, would've pulled it out. The 70's version lied on the ropes too much.

[PetethePrince]

Folks,

I bought the DVD from Amazon a while ago..... A great gift for any fight fan...... I love it, despite it being loaded with plenty of bullshit....

No way in hell Rocco Marciano gets Ali pinned against the ropes for any great length of time to absorb punishment... Not gonna happen........ Ali never worked off the ropes until he fought Frazier in 1971 at a rusty 29 yrs of age....

Prime-4-prime, a '67 version of Ali pitted against a '52 version of Marciano, is a SOLID lock / win for Ali in my book..... Marciano rarely gets off with a decent combo against the overally spry and slick Ali....... I'm sorry, but Ali batters Marciano into a mid to late rds TKO, with the stoppage being a result of too many cuts and blood flowing from Marciano's face.... Ali wins....

Again, no way in hell, Marciano ever beats Ali............ I am talkin' bout BOTH guys in their primes stemming from 1952 and 1967................
:bbb:deal:hat

SR.BILLARDO:think

Prime Ali beats Marciano. Requires a bit of a stretch of faith having Rocky win. Ali was better in every conceivable way except punching power in his prime compared to post exile. Maybe his hand troubles and lack of power could help the Rock... but I just see Ali winning a decision.

The computer fighter is crazy. Ali isn't dropping Rocky the way they have it nor is Rocky KOing or droping Ali a multiple of times. Silly scenario. It's kind of too much like the Walcott fight. However, prime Rocky finds Ali in that small ring they fought in lol...

But come on Bill. 71-75 Ali beats a prime Rock? That's almost just as much nonsense as the computer fight. That lay on the ropes tactic and conserve energy tactic would be suicide! And Ali can't keep on the move nor fend Rocky long enough at this point in his career.

[Hydraulix]

That lay on the ropes tactic and conserve energy tactic would be suicide!

My thoughts exactly. That rope-a-dope wouldn't work against Rocky. Ask Carmine Vingo.

[Bummy Davis]

Joe Frazier and George Foreman said Ali could never rope a dope Marciano....Tough fight for both men at any stage....could be a trilogy

[Boilermaker]

While the fight is obviously no more than a bit of fun, and a computer obviously cannot predict such a fight, one thing which is often forgotten is that when the fight was made, it was always assumed that Ali did not have the greatest of chins. This is one of the obvious reasons why the predicted result was that Rocky would wear out and catch ali. AFter the second portion of his career, one would ahve expected the "toughness" rating in his career to raise from say 50% to maybe 95%. This would more than likely make Ali a much tougher proposition in a Marciano v Ali II computer fight.

[Flea Man]

Ali could beat Marciano any way he wanted, including the rope-a-dope.

To be honest, I think he was just being polite to an old man by allowing him to win the fantasy match-up.

[KTFO]

Clay in 6

[turpinr]

WOW! I have Ali winning anything between 1964 thru 1975 with little to no problem against The Rockster............
:hey

MR.BILL

with or without rocky's wig:lol:

[Boilermaker]

Ali could beat Marciano any way he wanted, including the rope-a-dope.

To be honest, I think he was just being polite to an old man by allowing him to win the fantasy match-up.

:patsch How did he allow him, it was picked by a computer! And Ali disputed the decision!

[TheGreatA]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Bummy Davis]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Marciano was faster hit harder and put on much more pressure than Chuvalo.....I laugh when some of these posters think it would be an easy win for Ali....I think Louis and Marciano would be the wrong fighters for him....Ali was great vs the slow heavyhanded fighters.....Marciano was a different animal

[TheGreatA]

Marciano was faster hit harder and put on much more pressure than Chuvalo.....I laugh when some of these posters think it would be an easy win for Ali....I think Louis and Marciano would be the wrong fighters for him....Ali was great vs the slow heavyhanded fighters.....Marciano was a different animal

Agreed. I don't think Marciano or Louis would be any more wrong for him than he would be for Louis and Marciano themselves but I also don't see how they could be counted out in match-ups against Ali as easily as they are. These are all great fighters we are talking about.

There is a myth of invincibility about the "prime" Ali which I don't really agree with.

[mcvey]

Folks,

I bought the DVD from Amazon a while ago..... A great gift for any fight fan...... I love it, despite it being loaded with plenty of bullshit....

No way in hell Rocco Marciano gets Ali pinned against the ropes for any great length of time to absorb punishment... Not gonna happen........ Ali never worked off the ropes until he fought Frazier in 1971 at a rusty 29 yrs of age....

Prime-4-prime, a '67 version of Ali pitted against a '52 version of Marciano, is a SOLID lock / win for Ali in my book..... Marciano rarely gets off with a decent combo against the overally spry and slick Ali....... I'm sorry, but Ali batters Marciano into a mid to late rds TKO, with the stoppage being a result of too many cuts and blood flowing from Marciano's face.... Ali wins....

Again, no way in hell, Marciano ever beats Ali............ I am talkin' bout BOTH guys in their primes stemming from 1952 and 1967................
:bbb:deal:hat

SR.BILLARDO:think
I have this too ,pure entertainment.
Two versions were actually made, one had Ali winning by late tko.
Marciano was pissed that on a couple of occasions Ali dislodged his toupee with jabs,he wondered if it was on purpose .
The story is that Rocky went to his tragically early grave never knowing the result of the figth,but Skeehan's book said he did know that the had won it.

[warrior85]

ali beats marciano 10/10 imo

[MRBILL]

Correction. I meant '64-'67 Ali, aka peak version.

I'll accept that.......... :bbb

SR.BILL

[MRBILL]

For the record, back in '70, the computer fight that was shown to the world only showed the scenario in which Marciano KO's Ali late in the fight with a barrage of shots to the head and body.... But the DVD comes with an alternate ending to please BOTH Ali and Marciano fans........... Myself, I respect BOTH guys to the fullest, but I generally only buy into the scenario in which Ali TKO's Marciano in round 13 with a volley of slashing punches that causes referee Chris Dundee to halt the bout and award Ali the win......

MR.BILL

[Bummy Davis]

Agreed. I don't think Marciano or Louis would be any more wrong for him than he would be for Louis and Marciano themselves but I also don't see how they could be counted out in match-ups against Ali as easily as they are. These are all great fighters we are talking about.

There is a myth of invincibility about the "prime" Ali which I don't really agree with.


Joe Frazier spoke of the myth on Ali and said he would bet his house that Louis and Marciano would beat Ali and I think they both had an excellent chance to do so. When did Ali look unbeatable vs Cleveland Williams, Ernie Terrel, Foley,Cooper Moore, Frazier....I can see Liston 1 and Foreman being great fights for him but the slow big punchers were his cup of tea, not the swarming pressure fighters....Frazier, Norton,Cooper,Spinks....Marciano was a great fighter to discount him so lightly shows the way he is undermined by many of the younger posters

[SuzieQ49]

Only a 1960s version of ali would beat marciano. the 1970s ali would get battered and pummeled on the ropes.

[la-califa]

Folks,

I bought the DVD from Amazon a while ago..... A great gift for any fight fan...... I love it, despite it being loaded with plenty of bullshit....

No way in hell Rocco Marciano gets Ali pinned against the ropes for any great length of time to absorb punishment... Not gonna happen........ Ali never worked off the ropes until he fought Frazier in 1971 at a rusty 29 yrs of age....

Prime-4-prime, a '67 version of Ali pitted against a '52 version of Marciano, is a SOLID lock / win for Ali in my book..... Marciano rarely gets off with a decent combo against the overally spry and slick Ali....... I'm sorry, but Ali batters Marciano into a mid to late rds TKO, with the stoppage being a result of too many cuts and blood flowing from Marciano's face.... Ali wins....

Again, no way in hell, Marciano ever beats Ali............ I am talkin' bout BOTH guys in their primes stemming from 1952 and 1967................
:bbb:deal:hat

SR.BILLARDO:thinkThis was the same Ali, which was dropped & serverly hurt against Henry Cooper? Imagine him getting tagged by a prime Marciano? It would be a tough, tough fight. But don't dismiss this as an easy victory for Ali. Ali would have to withstand more pressure & harder punches than Frazier could ever throw at him.

[MRBILL]

This was the same Ali, which was dropped & serverly hurt against Henry Cooper? Imagine him getting tagged by a prime Marciano? It would be a tough, tough fight. But don't dismiss this as an easy victory for Ali. Ali would have to withstand more pressure & harder punches than Frazier could ever throw at him.


Cooper was taller and had a better reach than Marciano.... Plus, Cooper caught Ali daydreaming for a brief second...... Who's to say the Coop's hook wasn't as wicked as Marciano's right hand? Both had power..... Still, Ali always got up when decked......

Now, I know godamn well Frazier's left hook was just as wicked if not more so than Marciano's right cross........ Frazier's hook was the best in the business in 1970....... However, in 1971, Ali was dropped by the hook, yet still got up.........

I'm sorry, but if dudes like Frazier, Foreman, Norton & Shavers couldn't KO Ali while he was resting on the ropes in the 70s, than I seriously doubt a prime Marciano at 185 pounds could stop Ali....... I just don't see it.....
:bbb

MR.BILL

[groove]

i've never watched the movie fight but i read that here in the UK they had to change it to ali winning as the public wouldn't accept the marciano ko result.

[Hydraulix]

Marciano was faster hit harder and put on much more pressure than Chuvalo.....I laugh when some of these posters think it would be an easy win for Ali....I think Louis and Marciano would be the wrong fighters for him....Ali was great vs the slow heavyhanded fighters.....Marciano was a different animal

Agreed. I don't think Marciano or Louis would be any more wrong for him than he would be for Louis and Marciano themselves but I also don't see how they could be counted out in match-ups against Ali as easily as they are. These are all great fighters we are talking about.

There is a myth of invincibility about the "prime" Ali which I don't really agree with.

I agree with both of you guys.

However, I don't have 100% faith in this "Superfight Computer." Didn't they use that same computer to predict the Joe Frazier/Bob Foster fight? The "expert" computer predicted that Foster would knock out Frazier in 5 rounds, but in the actual fight, Frazier knocked out Foster in only two rounds. I believe that Rocky would beat Ali, but I don't trust the computer entirely.

The computer was right, however, in the sense that it picked the style of Rocky to beat Ali. It predicted that a pressure fighter would cut the ring and reduce Ali's speed, which is exactly what Frazier did a few years later.

[Flea Man]

This was the same Ali, which was dropped & serverly hurt against Henry Cooper? Imagine him getting tagged by a prime Marciano? It would be a tough, tough fight. But don't dismiss this as an easy victory for Ali. Ali would have to withstand more pressure & harder punches than Frazier could ever throw at him.

No you're getting him mixed up with someone else. We're talking about the guy that put on a masterful display of boxing against Sonny Liston:deal

[PetethePrince]

Ali could beat Marciano any way he wanted, including the rope-a-dope.

To be honest, I think he was just being polite to an old man by allowing him to win the fantasy match-up.

Like he let him win? :lol:

[PetethePrince]

I have this too ,pure entertainment.
Two versions were actually made, one had Ali winning by late tko.
Marciano was pissed that on a couple of occasions Ali dislodged his toupee with jabs,he wondered if it was on purpose .
The story is that Rocky went to his tragically early grave never knowing the result of the figth,but Skeehan's book said he did know that the had won it.

Yes, I believe he knew.

[PetethePrince]

Cooper was taller and had a better reach than Marciano.... Plus, Cooper caught Ali daydreaming for a brief second...... Who's to say the Coop's hook wasn't as wicked as Marciano's right hand?

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Now, I know godamn well Frazier's left hook was just as wicked if not more so than Marciano's right cross........ Frazier's hook was the best in the business in 1970....... However, in 1971, Ali was dropped by the hook, yet still got up.........

Know? So you got hit by both? All proof shows otherwise too.

[la-califa]

No you're getting him mixed up with someone else. We're talking about the guy that put on a masterful display of boxing against Sonny Liston:deal & previously struggled with Doug Jones.:deal

[MRBILL]

Marciano's power is legendary, however, also fabled too...... He parked a lotta typical guys who were either old or under 200 pounds......... Plus, it took a barrage of shots to KO 188 lb. Archie Moore in 1955... Sorry Charlie, but I can't envision Marciano pinning or pummeling bigger dudes like Frazier, Foreman, Ali or Holmes in a time machine........ Them dudes would break out the "Ass Whup" on Marciano....... Cheers....

MR.BILL

[la-califa]

Marciano's power is legendary, however, also fabled too...... He parked a lotta typical guys who were either old or under 200 pounds......... Plus, it took a barrage of shots to KO 188 lb. Archie Moore in 1955... Sorry Charlie, but I can't envision Marciano pinning or pummeling bigger dudes like Frazier, Foreman, Ali or Holmes in a time machine........ Them dudes would break out the "Ass Whup" on Marciano....... Cheers....

MR.BILL Plus remember this version of Ali was not long in fighting over 200 Lbs. The older, heavier version grew to take the heavyweight punch very well. But the lighter, pre-Frazier Ali. Did get rattled from time to time. Not saying one way or the other on this match up. But there are alot of factors to be considered. Plus sheer size doesn't guarantee victory. Just look at Tyson-Ruddock or Dempsey-Willard. Both of the smaller fighters beat thier opponents.

[mcvey]

Joe Frazier spoke of the myth on Ali and said he would bet his house that Louis and Marciano would beat Ali and I think they both had an excellent chance to do so. When did Ali look unbeatable vs Cleveland Williams, Ernie Terrel, Foley,Cooper Moore, Frazier....I can see Liston 1 and Foreman being great fights for him but the slow big punchers were his cup of tea, not the swarming pressure fighters....Frazier, Norton,Cooper,Spinks....Marciano was a great fighter to discount him so lightly shows the way he is undermined by many of the younger posters

Cooper was not a swarming pressure fighter ,he was a stand up boxer who worked behind his left jab, probing for openings for his left hook ,his right hand was only used to wipe his arse with.

[(PimpThaSystem)]

Plus remember this version of Ali was not long in fighting over 200 Lbs. The older, heavier version grew to take the heavyweight punch very well. But the lighter, pre-Frazier Ali.

Really? This myth again? Ali weighed 212 against Terrell, Folley, and Williams; the same weight he would make in the Frazier/Norton rematches.

[MRBILL]

Clay was like 210 1/2 for Liston in '64 and 206 for the rematch in Maine later come 1965...... YES! Clay / Ali was near or at 211 to 212 pounds for Williams and Folley......... By the middle 60s, Ol' Ali was a big mother for the era.......... Razor sharp with a decent punch.......... Williams and Folley sure felt some thunder........... Peace.......

MR.BILL

[Bummy Davis]

Cooper was not a swarming pressure fighter ,he was a stand up boxer who worked behind his left jab, probing for openings for his left hook ,his right hand was only used to wipe his arse with.

Cooper could put pressure on you if he could get past your power and not bleed to death...He caught Ali with a few good hooks before the one that dropped him and he kept throwing them

[Bummy Davis]

Plus remember this version of Ali was not long in fighting over 200 Lbs. The older, heavier version grew to take the heavyweight punch very well. But the lighter, pre-Frazier Ali. Did get rattled from time to time. Not saying one way or the other on this match up. But there are alot of factors to be considered. Plus sheer size doesn't guarantee victory. Just look at Tyson-Ruddock or Dempsey-Willard. Both of the smaller fighters beat thier opponents.


:good:good:goodSmart post

[Bummy Davis]

Cooper was taller and had a better reach than Marciano.... Plus, Cooper caught Ali daydreaming for a brief second...... Who's to say the Coop's hook wasn't as wicked as Marciano's right hand? Both had power..... Still, Ali always got up when decked......

Now, I know godamn well Frazier's left hook was just as wicked if not more so than Marciano's right cross........ Frazier's hook was the best in the business in 1970....... However, in 1971, Ali was dropped by the hook, yet still got up.........

I'm sorry, but if dudes like Frazier, Foreman, Norton & Shavers couldn't KO Ali while he was resting on the ropes in the 70s, than I seriously doubt a prime Marciano at 185 pounds could stop Ali....... I just don't see it.....
:bbb

MR.BILL

Cooper was taller? He was taller than Tyson, Langford and Frazier but what does that mean...Cooper weighed 185lbs and could not punch anywhere like Marciano with either hand.....In fact Cooper was KO'd in 4 rds )KO'd by 6 ft 191lb Floyd Patterson....I know you are infacuated with size but that is ridiculas and to compare Earnie Shavers who was a puncher to an all-time great two-fisted puncher like Marciano or Joe Louis is weak..Shavers lost all the big ones and some of the guys that dominated him were 5"10 Bob Stallings, 5"10 1/2 Ron Stander and 6ft Jerry Quarry, all these men had Shavers on the floor Quarry KO Shavers 1...Stander KO Shavers in 5....and it was the smaller lighter men that Ali had trouble with Cooper 185lbs...Doug Jones 6ft 188, Joe Frazier 5'11 205 and Bonevena 5"10 205 and that is the facts

[groove]

ali was knocked down but won every other round that they fought in 2 fights. ali in 1966 rematch was far classier. cooper did have a great left hook - far better than most heavies as he was a natural leftie so that was his power punch - it even had a famous nickname. if stopping a fighter in his predicted 5 rounds is really struggling.................but that was the problem - ali waiting for 5th got slack at end of 4th and got nailed good.

[MRBILL]

People can laugh or scoff all they want to, but while I know damn well that Marciano would have his head knocked off and handed back to him by guys like Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman & Holmes, I'd be willing to bet that Marciano would be in the fight / fights of his life with dudes like Cleve Williams, Henry Cooper, Jerry Quarry, George Chuvalo & Oscar Bonavena...... Ol' Rocco was lucky and smart by retiring in 1955 after his KO win over 40ish Archie Moore....... Marciano was lucky to have fought in a suitable era (1947-1955) for his body and skills........ Cheers......

MR.BILL

[djanders]

Ali was the better fighter. I currently have him at #1 on my all-time list. With that said, I do not think Rocky would have his head knocked off and handed to him by Ali. I think Ali would be in for a hell of a scrap with Marciano. Ali would win the decision, but he would pay dearly for that win...in my opinion.

[Ted Stickles]

I had a video on here where Ali says himself he doesnt know if he would have beaten Marciano......I tried to find it again but youtube removed it,sorry

[MRBILL]

I had a video on here where Ali says himself he doesnt know if he would have beaten Marciano......I tried to find it again but youtube removed it,sorry

Ted,

I see "Ali-Marciano" similar to "Robinson-LaMotta." Yes, LaMotta out-hussled Robby ONE TIME, but he was never able to do it again........ Robinson was too slick and quick for LaMotta, and Ali would be the same for Marciano........

MR.BILL:rasta

[Bummy Davis]

Ted,

I see "Ali-Marciano" similar to "Robinson-LaMotta." Yes, LaMotta out-hussled Robby ONE TIME, but he was never able to do it again........ Robinson was too slick and quick for LaMotta, and Ali would be the same for Marciano........

MR.BILL:rasta

Lamotta and Marciano had two things in common they were Italian and aggresive but Lamotta could not punch anywhere like Marciano with either hand and the comparison ends there

[MRBILL]

Lamotta and Marciano had two things in common they were Italian and aggresive but Lamotta could not punch anywhere like Marciano with either hand and the comparison ends there


I know LaMotta had few KO's (30) or so, but he was not a featherfisted fighter........ He also decked Robinson in one of the fights they had..... LaMotta may not have had wicked one shot power, but he could whack well enough.......

Getting back to Ali.... Ali surely could take anything Marciano could throw...... If Ali could eat and digest power shots from "Liston, Quarry, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Lyle & Shavers" without folding like a lawn chair, he'd handle Marciano's power too............
:bbb

MR.BILL

[Dempsey1238]

Lamotta should have won the bout shortly before Robinson join WWII.

There are reports that some of the 6 bouts were bad calls desion wise.

[MRBILL]

Lamotta should have won the bout shortly before Robinson join WWII.

There are reports that some of the 6 bouts were bad calls desion wise.

True... But my initial point was, I think Ali with his flash and dash type of style would be able to soundly outbox Marciano over the course of 15 rds.... I honestly can see Ali winning by scores of 10 to 5 over 15 rds with Marciano...... However, my real guess is, Ali thrashes and slices up Marciano's face to where the ref steps in and stops the bout on a TKO for Ali......
:good:deal:thumbsup:rasta

MR.BILL

[PetethePrince]

Lamotta and Marciano had two things in common they were Italian and aggresive but Lamotta could not punch anywhere like Marciano with either hand and the comparison ends there

And SRR was a better technician with more power than Ali in a P4P sense. However, Lamotta had the physical edges (Not in height or reach) in weight and strength. Rocky has the strength, certainly but the physical disadvantages are more noticeable against Marciano rather than SRR. However, SRR was better in a P4P sense and Rocky certainly hit harder than Lamotta. So it equals out a bit.

Lamotta should have won the bout shortly before Robinson join WWII.

There are reports that some of the 6 bouts were bad calls desion wise.

I remember this from Raging Bull.

Joe Pesci, "I swear they only gave him that fucking decision because he's going to the army next week."

De Niro, "I don't know Joe maybe I've bad luck. I've done some bad things and maybe it's coming back to me... I dunno I mean maybe I'm a jinx who knows."

Classic film.

[MRBILL]

And SRR was a better technician with more power than Ali in a P4P sense. However, Lamotta had the physical edges (Not in height or reach) in weight and strength. Rocky has the strength, certainly but the physical disadvantages are more noticeable against Marciano rather than SRR. However, SRR was better in a P4P sense and Rocky certainly hit harder than Lamotta. So it equals out a bit.



I remember this from Raging Bull.

Joe Pesci, "I swear they only gave him that fucking decision because he's going to the army next week."

De Niro, "I don't know Joe maybe I've bad luck. I've done some bad things and maybe it's coming back to me... I dunno I mean maybe I'm a jinx who knows."

Classic film.

Everybody loves "Raging Bull" from '80 with DeNiro....:deal

MR.BILL

Note: Be as it may, but LaMotta was affected by the weight of 160 for the '51 slaughter loss to Robinson........ Robinson by '51 was suited for 160, while LaMotta really needed 165 to 168 pounds badly....... LaMotta left his fight in the gym back in 1951........

MR.BILL:bbb

[sugarsean]

Ali would have to withstand more pressure & harder punches than Frazier could ever throw at him.

Joe Frazier was a better fighter than Rocky Marciano

faster
better head movement
faster footwork
a better inside fighter

[PetethePrince]

Everybody loves "Raging Bull" from '80 with DeNiro....:deal

MR.BILL

:cheers:


Note: Be as it may, but LaMotta was affected by the weight of 160 for the '51 slaughter loss to Robinson........ Robinson by '51 was suited for 160, while LaMotta really needed 165 to 168 pounds badly....... LaMotta left his fight in the gym back in 1951........

MR.BILL:bbb

True, but come on Bill. Ali vs Marciano is no slaughter and a 75 version is no way beating a prime Marciano. The whole Cooper left hook being as wicked as Rocky's is rather ridiculous, especially after the assertion that Rocky's power is rather fabled. That's not how you're going to gain credibility. :-(

Rocky hit harder than Frazier. Most believe this too. Either way, comparing Frazier/Marciano to Cooper in power is wrong.

[MRBILL]

:hatJoe Frazier was a better fighter than Rocky Marciano

faster
better head movement
faster footwork
a better inside fighter

Marciano was prolly a better two-fisted fighter than Frazier was, but I agree that all around a prime Frazier was better and tougher than Marciano.......... NOBODY other than greats like "Foreman and Ali" could KO or batter to death a dude like Joe Frazier........ Frazier kicked everyone else's ass up until 1976.............

Also, as Ali found out for sure in '75, Frazier developed a decent right hand to the body in Manila........ I think a prime Frazier of 1970 beats the piss outta a '52 Marciano in a time machine......
:thumbsup

MR.BILL

[PetethePrince]

:hat

Marciano was prolly a better two-fisted fighter than Frazier was, but I agree that all around a prime Frazier was better and tougher than Marciano.......... NOBODY other than greats like "Foreman and Ali" could KO or batter to death a dude like Joe Frazier........ Frazier kicked everyone else's ass up until 1976.............

:patsch

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

Also, as Ali found out for sure in '75, Frazier developed a decent right hand to the body in Manila........ I think a prime Frazier of 1970 beats the piss outta a '52 Marciano in a time machine......
:thumbsup

MR.BILL

Joe always had the right hand body attack. It was the hook to the head that was a bit improved by then.

[Seamus]

Marciano was faster hit harder and put on much more pressure than Chuvalo.....I laugh when some of these posters think it would be an easy win for Ali....I think Louis and Marciano would be the wrong fighters for him....Ali was great vs the slow heavyhanded fighters.....Marciano was a different animal

Watching that Chuvalo footage one has to think Marciano had a decent chance against Ali on a given night. If that was a prime Marciano in the ring on that night, there would have been a victory for the Rock. On any given night. Maybe not on most, but on some.

[MRBILL]

I'm sorry, but I just think Rocco Marciano is well outta his league and would do poorly in the POST 1960 era of heavyweight boxing..... From 1887 to 1960, I rate Marciano for sure in the top-5 ATG ratings....... But considering some of the dudes who popped up since 1960 to the present time being, Marciano drops down to top-12 ATG material.....

Also, in all reality, regardless of Rocco's age of nearing or at 33 in 1956 and his rumored bad back, he was smart to pack-it-in that year and walk away from boxing.... Had Marciano tried to push onward into 1957 / '58 he would've had lotsa' trouble with guys like "Patterson, Cleve Williams and Sonny Liston" for sure........ Patterson was nowhere near as tuff as Marciano, but he was 12 yrs younger and a hell of a lot faster than Marciano was in 1956...... Williams and Liston would KTFO of Marciano for sure in the late 50s......... Come 1960 things were changing.........

MR.BILL

[MRBILL]

:patsch

[Only registered and activated users can see links]



Joe always had the right hand body attack. It was the hook to the head that was a bit improved by then.

Not really a right hook shot, but rather a chopping right to the head after drilling to the rib-cage.......
:yep

MR.BILL

[PetethePrince]

Not really a right hook shot, but rather a chopping right to the head after drilling to the rib-cage.......
:yep

MR.BILL

...Right, unfortunately Frazier was a bit forgone at that point. I think I saw him stun Quarry once with the right hand. Other than that he was pretty left-hand oriented.

Marciano has stamina, power, two fisted attack, and durability.

I should say toughness since you claimed the opposite. If anyone was more tougher than Frazier it was Rocky. Maybe that's impossible to argue but I'd be willing to argue it. However, Rocky may've just proved greater recovery powers then...

[mcvey]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Dempsey1238]

The same Williams that had a glass chin??

I think one good right hand, and Marciano would have knock Williams out, pretty much how Rocky took Rex Layne out.

[mcvey]

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[MRBILL]

The same Williams that had a glass chin??

I think one good right hand, and Marciano would have knock Williams out, pretty much how Rocky took Rex Layne out.

The hell? Getting parked by Liston doesn't really suggest or determine a mother-ducker has a glass chin..... Liston landed some thunderous shots upside Williams' head in BOTH fights of 1959 and '60...... Not many dudes at the time could've taken them punches and remained intact with their senses......
:bbb

MR.BILL:think

[he grant]

The different in these matchups was that Ali was much larger than Marciano while LaMotta was shorter but much heavier than Robinson.

I understand the points made about Rocky's toughness but Frazier did fight much bigger men. Let's keep it in mind.

[MRBILL]

The different in these matchups was that Ali was much larger than Marciano while LaMotta was shorter but much heavier than Robinson.

I understand the points made about Rocky's toughness but Frazier did fight much bigger men. Let's keep it in mind.

Grant,

I'll swear to God and sonny Jesus that '70 Frazier would chase a '52 Marciano right outta the ring before 15 rds was up........... Due to styles, their is NO WAY that this fight would go the 15 rd. distance.... NO WAY!!:thumbsup

[djanders]

Grant,

I'll swear to God and sonny Jesus that '70 Frazier would chase a '52 Marciano right outta the ring before 15 rds was up........... Due to styles, their is NO WAY that this fight would go the 15 rd. distance.... NO WAY!!:thumbsup

Good Lord! You are SERIOUSLY underestimating Marciano...in my opinion. Have you ever seen the man fight? Nobody who ever lived is chasing him out of any boxing ring! He would be a hard fight for ANY of them!

[Bummy Davis]

True... But my initial point was, I think Ali with his flash and dash type of style would be able to soundly outbox Marciano over the course of 15 rds.... I honestly can see Ali winning by scores of 10 to 5 over 15 rds with Marciano...... However, my real guess is, Ali thrashes and slices up Marciano's face to where the ref steps in and stops the bout on a TKO for Ali......
:good:deal:thumbsup:rasta

MR.BILL

Or Ali could get a broken Jaw like he did in the fight with Norton or hurt late in the fight like he did in the 11th vs Frazier and dropped in the 15th or Rocked and dropped like he was against Cooper, only Marciano was a better finisher and had 2 handed Power....Speculation is nice as long as you know it is just that.

[Bummy Davis]

Grant,

I'll swear to God and sonny Jesus that '70 Frazier would chase a '52 Marciano right outta the ring before 15 rds was up........... Due to styles, their is NO WAY that this fight would go the 15 rd. distance.... NO WAY!!:thumbsup


What you been smokin boy.....Ali chase Marciano out of the ring, I think not......

[MRBILL]

Good Lord! You are SERIOUSLY underestimating Marciano...in my opinion. Have you ever seen the man fight? Nobody who ever lived is chasing him out of any boxing ring! He would be a hard fight for ANY of them!


Marciano NEVER fought a dude the caliber or as aggressive of a Joeseph Frazier....... I'm sorry, but Frazier would've eaten up everybody that Marciano ever fought, if pitted against the same versions that Rocco faced throughout his career..... Louis of '51 and Walcott of '52 were still very good and all, but no way they beat a '70 Frazier at that stage.......... That's all I'm saying..... SO! Yes, I can keep a straight face by saying '70 Frazier chases '52 Marciano right outta the ring....... Frazier being roughly the same height, yet nearly 20 solid pounds heavier and full of piss and vinegar, stops Marciano's attack and kicks some real ass in the ring.....
:nono

MR.BILL:bbb

P.S.

I understand Rocky Marciano was great for what he did against the guys he fought, but the man would be in deep shit against many of these post '60 heavies.......... People gotta stop riding his nutsack like he was Superman.......
:deal:hat

[abraq]

What you been smokin boy.....Ali chase Marciano out of the ring, I think not......

I think he said that Frazier, and not Ali, would chase Marciano right out of the ring.

[Bokaj]

Yes, Ali had some trouble with Chuvalo, but less than Marciano had with an old Ezzard Charles. Yes, Frazier was a fiercly tough opponent for a post-prime Ali, but Walcott and Moore gave Rocky trouble when they were close to 40.

But I don't think Marciano would have been an easy opponent for Ali at any point. Tough, entertaining fight.

[Dempsey1238]

I dont think old Archie gave Marciano that much trouble.
It was a pretty one sided beating.


Some one must of forgot when Ali walk in the ring and had his way with Williams.

Williams was not one of the best chin fighters.

[Bokaj]

I dont think old Archie gave Marciano that much trouble.
It was a pretty one sided beating

Well, he managed to floor him. That's always something.

[djanders]

I actually sat directly behind Muhammad Ali during the showing of this fight on the big screen in the old Stanley Theater in Philadelphia, chatted with him throughout the show...most of the talk was initiated by him. All I did was say "Hi, Champ" at the beginning. He mostly carried it from there. He kept turning and making comments to me and the guy sitting next to me. He was a riot! Nice guy! Very friendly! Fun talking with him! Great memory! :good

[janitor]

Marciano NEVER fought a dude the caliber or as aggressive of a Joeseph Frazier....... I'm sorry, but Frazier would've eaten up everybody that Marciano ever fought, if pitted against the same versions that Rocco faced throughout his career..... Louis of '51 and Walcott of '52 were still very good and all, but no way they beat a '70 Frazier at that stage.......... That's all I'm saying..... SO! Yes, I can keep a straight face by saying '70 Frazier chases '52 Marciano right outta the ring....... Frazier being roughly the same height, yet nearly 20 solid pounds heavier and full of piss and vinegar, stops Marciano's attack and kicks some real ass in the ring.....
:nono

MR.BILL:bbb

P.S.

I understand Rocky Marciano was great for what he did against the guys he fought, but the man would be in deep shit against many of these post '60 heavies.......... People gotta stop riding his nutsack like he was Superman.......
:deal:hat

Frazier might have been heavier than Marciano but I don't think that he was physicaly stronger and I don't think that he hit harder or had a better chin.

He was faster and perhaps better suited to fighting Ali stylisticaly.

I think that Marciano's era had more quality heavyweights than the early 60s during Ali's title reign before he was stripped. I also think that there was more depth than when Sonny Liston was coming up through the ranks.

[MRBILL]

This is driving me nuts...... Somebody needs to dig Marciano up and rewind his clock....

Archie Moore was trouble for Marciano.... At least for 7 of the 9 rds that the fight went... 'Twas no walk in the park for Rocco......

Chins?? Hmm..... Who knows for sure, but I get the feeling that Frazier wouldn't have been decked by the Walcott hook of '52 in round 1 or the right hand from Moore in '55...... Yet Frazier was decked and hurt badly by Bonavena in '66........ Frazier's chin is comparable to whatever Marciano did........ Frazier only got smoked by Foreman, as would Marciano would be too, if tagged with them bombs of '73 by George.....

Joe Frazier was a tuff mother and a wicked hooker with stamina and aggression rarely matched............

MR.BILL

[PetethePrince]

This is driving me nuts...... Somebody needs to dig Marciano up and rewind his clock....

Archie Moore was trouble for Marciano.... At least for 7 of the 9 rds that the fight went... 'Twas no walk in the park for Rocco......

Bill, re-watch the fight. Please. Rocky got hit with a big uppercut when he was leaning forward, off balance, and a shot he didn't see. And he got up at 3. The rest of the fight is Marciano dominating Archie. He punished him dropping him like 5 times or so. Moore was dead game by round 6 and kept getting saved by the bill and in complete survival mode. Archie won 1-2 rounds in that fight. HOW was he troubling Rocky for 7/9 rounds? That's the most ridiclious assertion I ever heard. Bonavena arguably beat Frazier over Moore troubling Rocky for 7/9 rounds.

Chins?? Hmm..... Who knows for sure, but I get the feeling that Frazier wouldn't have been decked by the Walcott hook of '52 in round 1 or the right hand from Moore in '55...... Yet Frazier was decked and hurt badly by Bonavena in '66........ Frazier's chin is comparable to whatever Marciano did........ Frazier only got smoked by Foreman, as would Marciano would be too, if tagged with them bombs of '73 by George.....

Frazier has been staggered and hurt by lesser punchers. A bum in his 2nd fight had him down for an 8 count. That's more than Rocky was ever on the canvas his entire career.

Walcott troubles Frazier greatly in my opinion. More so than Ellis and Quarry did by far.

[Bummy Davis]

I think he said that Frazier, and not Ali, would chase Marciano right out of the ring.


one thing Marciano had plenty of was Balls and I dont think anyone would be chasing him out of the Ring...Oscar Bonvena had Frazier down twice and I donr think even Bill (bigger is Better BIll) could say Oscar hit harder than Rocky.....on top of that Manual Ramos hurt Frazier bad in the 1st rd of there fight and Ramos only won 4 of his next 33 fights....

[RockyJim]

The myth still persists that pime Ali at 6'3 ...218 pounds...1963-1967 was unhittable...
Picture a prime Rocky Marciano in the ring with a 1966 Ali..and substitute The Rock for George Chuvalo.....Marciano was a force of nature....never stopped coming....Ali would have to fight 3 minutes of every round against Marciano..something he rarely did! No shuffles....no talking...no waving to the crowd...none of that shit! A left jab is not going to work against the best conditioned fighter who ever lived! Ali wanted to quit against Liston in their 1st fight in Miami in 1964 because something (possibly some kind of linament) got into his eyes!
He was pushed back out by Angelo Dundee.....NO QUIT in Marciano!
An EASY fight for Ali?......yeah,...and then you woke up!!!

[MRBILL]

I still believe that Ali would hammer Marciano in a time machine for a late round TKO due to cuts and tears to Rock's face..... Rocky Marciano would start to bleed very early on and the blood in his face, along with Ali's punches would be too much for Marciano to overcome..... Ali wins by TKO over Marciano.....

MR.BILL

[RockysSplitNose]

I actually sat directly behind Muhammad Ali during the showing of this fight on the big screen in the old Stanley Theater in Philadelphia, chatted with him throughout the show...most of the talk was initiated by him. All I did was say "Hi, Champ" at the beginning. He mostly carried it from there. He kept turning and making comments to me and the guy sitting next to me. He was a riot! Nice guy! Very friendly! Fun talking with him! Great memory! :good

Unreal - did he give you any pointers about what Marciano was like or anything?

[gentleman jim]

Although I don't think it would as easy a win for Ali as MR. BILL thinks, I agree with him on the outcome. Ali's height, reach and speed would simply be too much for Rocky to overcome. Rocky's crouch would make it somewhat difficult for Ali to land cleanly at times and Ali would have to watch out for a surprisingly fast right hand or left hook that Rocky could send in behind that crouch but I don't see him landing often enough to win. If Ali stays on his toes and pumps that long jab and fast right continuously then Rocky will have to lunge at Ali and that spells trouble. If Rocky fought at the same speed as Frazier then he would stand a better chance but he didn't. He was slower. Too much size and speed I feel. Certainly wouldn't be a walk in the park for Ali but in the end I think he wins via decision or late round stoppage due to cuts.

[MRBILL]

I have my "Ali-Marciano" disc in the player rolling right now. I also pushed the button for the "Alternate" ending in which Ali TKO's Marciano on cuts in round 13...... I believe that assumption to be correct from the '69 computer........

The original theatre showing of Ali being KO'd by Marciano irks me and makes me scoff...... I don't buy that at all........

MR.BILL

[North Star]

If Ali and Rocky fought 5 times prime to prime, I think Rocky might win once or twice. During Ali's era some of Rocky's fights would be more prone to stoppage than they would be in Rocky's day because of Marciano's serious cuts, and it is hard to imagine Ali not cutting Rocky severely.

The computer fight is a rehearsed fantasy captured on film but it's great fun to watch Ali and Rocky moving around together in a ring. Ali's comments about it over the years suggest that in a real fight he would have taken a prime Marciano very seriously. During their artificial computer film activities together Ali must have been trying to project what the real Rocky might have been like to deal with.

[mjk612]

Wow. Mr. Bill, you are a Rocky hater. You say that you respect him and all, but you don't give him anywhere near the respect that Ali himself gave him. He thought that Rocky was a little better than Frazier and would give him trouble. It was mid 70s and I think after the Thrilla in Manilla, but I'm not sure. It appeared to me to be a genuine assessment he gave during an interview with Howard Cossell. BTW, when forced to choose, I go with Ali.

[MRBILL]

I'm not a "Hater" of Marciano at all....... I am a "Realist."

MR.BILL

[Boilermaker]

I have my "Ali-Marciano" disc in the player rolling right now. I also pushed the button for the "Alternate" ending in which Ali TKO's Marciano on cuts in round 13...... I believe that assumption to be correct from the '69 computer........

The original theatre showing of Ali being KO'd by Marciano irks me and makes me scoff...... I don't buy that at all........

MR.BILL

I think that the ending was perfectly believeable and even probable as a prediction in 1969. But what people forget is that in 1969, it was thought that Ali had a poor chin and not that much heart. This was before his second career where his results probably went from a 4 out of 10 for these traits to a 9 or 10 out of 10. I am not sure how the program worked, but presumably if we knew about Ali then, what we did now, When Rocky dropped him in the 13th, Ali would get back, up, call on the legendary recuperative powers and at the very least, keep boxing, but more than likely start winning rounds. How was the points score after the 13th? Was Ali ahead, or would he be ahead if he won rounds 14 and 15?

[he grant]

Grant,

I'll swear to God and sonny Jesus that '70 Frazier would chase a '52 Marciano right outta the ring before 15 rds was up........... Due to styles, their is NO WAY that this fight would go the 15 rd. distance.... NO WAY!!:thumbsup

Go to the interview at about the 5:25 mark .... Frazier makes some very interesting and possibly revealing comments about his troubles fighting short fighters ... makes you wonder a bit more about a Marciano match up ...

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[Stevie G]

I remember watching this on the TV. Some of you will remember a British heavyweight called Jack Bodell. Not the most skilled of pugilists. A journalist was commenting on Ali and Marciano fighting with a blank background outside of the ring instead of a crowd. Anyway this journo quipped "That's some crowd. Bodell must have been on the bill" Bit cruel,but funny. Regarding the 'fight' Marciano was looked upon as the all American boy,and Ali was still Public Enemy number one,as far as the American establishment was concerned,so it was inevitable that one of the endings featuring Marciano winning would be used. No disrespect intended to Rocky.

[Son of Gaul]

WOW! I have Ali winning anything between 1964 thru 1975 with little to no problem against The Rockster............
:hey

MR.BILL

I think The Rock would certainly fare better against the 1970-75 version than the 1966-67 version.

[mcvey]

Folks,

I bought the DVD from Amazon a while ago..... A great gift for any fight fan...... I love it, despite it being loaded with plenty of bullshit....

No way in hell Rocco Marciano gets Ali pinned against the ropes for any great length of time to absorb punishment... Not gonna happen........ Ali never worked off the ropes until he fought Frazier in 1971 at a rusty 29 yrs of age....

Prime-4-prime, a '67 version of Ali pitted against a '52 version of Marciano, is a SOLID lock / win for Ali in my book..... Marciano rarely gets off with a decent combo against the overally spry and slick Ali....... I'm sorry, but Ali batters Marciano into a mid to late rds TKO, with the stoppage being a result of too many cuts and blood flowing from Marciano's face.... Ali wins....

Again, no way in hell, Marciano ever beats Ali............ I am talkin' bout BOTH guys in their primes stemming from 1952 and 1967................
:bbb:deal:hat

SR.BILLARDO:think
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Thats about how I see it too.

[Stevie G]

Thats about how I see it too.
I also see it that way. Ali too fast and strong. As tough as Marciano was.

[Stevie G]

I think The Rock would certainly fare better against the 1970-75 version than the 1966-67 version.
I see Marciano faring better,but still losing to the 1970-75 version of Muhammad.

[McGrain]

I think Marciano would beat Ali in Zaire. But prime for prime it's a horrible match up for Rocky. Not enough speed in his relentless pressure in my opinion, and Ali was known for cutting opponents.

[MRBILL]

I think Marciano would beat Ali in Zaire. But prime for prime it's a horrible match up for Rocky. Not enough speed in his relentless pressure in my opinion, and Ali was known for cutting opponents.


Interesting.......... I still favor Ali of Zaire to beat Marciano..........:deal

Q:

I am curious how Marciano would deal with and handle high temps with high humidity levels in the air....... I know Marciano fought a few fights in very cool weather, but I cannot recall him ever fighting in extreme HOT weather........

When I was in school playing baseball I always preferred the game on a cool night cuz I felt better after warming up..... I hated them HOT-ASS weekend afternoon games in Los Angeles when the temp would be 88 degrees and the smog was as thick as Molasses.......
:patsch:shock:

MR.BILL

[he grant]

I don't see the Ali of Zaire losing to Rocky ....People forget just how strong Ali was .. Rocky would not tire like Foreman but he did not hit as hard nor had the 80 plus inch reach to hit him ... I'd take the Ali of 74 way over the Charles that went 15 with ocky ...

[MRBILL]

Grant,

Just my point..... If Marciano thought the 6' tall and 185 pound Buzzard Charles was slick and very capable in the ring, just imagine how Marciano would've felt with a 6' 3" tall Ali who was 212 pounds...........

Good points............. Ali's strength and power always seem to get overshadowed by his speed and ring savvy.......... A peaked Ali was not wimpy in strength or power..... People need to realize that.........

MR.BILL

[Unforgiven]

If Ali tried to rope-a-dope him, Rocky would beat him, I think. But maybe Ali would adopt better strategy. Rocky was try to make him fight his (Rocky's) fight too, so who knows what would occur.

I'm not sure Foreman hit harder than Marciano.

[MRBILL]

If Ali could hang out by the ropes with "Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Shavers & Leon Stinks" during his career without be dropped or seriously hurt, I think Ali could handle and toy with the MUCH smaller Rocco Marciano.......

NOTE:

Shavers rocked Ali a couple of times in 1977, but Ali was in ring center and jabbing while circling when Shavers came over Ali's jab with a countering right hand bomb.... Ali was NOT on the ropes there.......

MR.BILL:thumbsup:hat

[Unforgiven]

If Ali could hang out by the ropes with "Frazier, Norton, Foreman, Shavers & Leon Stinks" during his career without be dropped or seriously hurt, I think Ali could handle and toy with the MUCH smaller Rocco Marciano.......

NOTE:

Shavers rocked Ali a couple of times in 1977, but Ali was in ring center and jabbing while circling when Shavers came over Ali's jab with a countering right hand bomb.... Ali was NOT on the ropes there.......

MR.BILL:thumbsup:hat

Frazier beat Ali up on the ropes.
Norton beat Ali on the ropes.
Leon Spinks (only 197 pounds and not nearly as powerful as Marciano) beat Ali on the ropes.
And Shavers came close.

Ali spent most his glorious days of "rope-a-dope" getting his kidneys and brain turned to mush. Yes, he was tough. But Foreman's about the only fight where you can even begin to argue it was worth it.
Ali stank the joint out in most those fights in the 70s.

Ali's not toying with Rocky.

I'm no hero-worshipper of Marciano, but he was a pretty hurtful fighter.
I see a lot of Ali hero-worship going on around here.

[MRBILL]

Truly, based on styles and skills, I see Marciano being tuff and somewhat successful against Ali for about "6" rds in a 15 rounder.... That is my best guess too........ After round 6, Ali's jabs and crosses have Marciano cut above the eyes and bleeding from the mouth..... By round 10, its merely a matter of time before the corner cannot control Marciano's facial wounds and the doctor has got to call it off.........

Again, based on styles, I think Marciano would ONLY be successful with his body attack. Marciano would eat leather coming in, but he'd land some thudding shots to Ali's body..... Ali is noted for taking a tremendous shot to the body, as well as the jaw.......

I really think Marciano would struggle major league in hitting Ali with a jab or right hand to the face / jaw....... I can't see Marciano with his 68" inch reach being effective upstairs on the elusive master Ali..........

In the end, its Ali by TKO victory somewhere between rds 10 thru 13......... Marciano goes to the hospital to receive stitches and perhaps a pint of blood from storage........ WORD!

MR.BILL

[mcvey]

Truly, based on styles and skills, I see Marciano being tuff and somewhat successful against Ali for about "6" rds in a 15 rounder.... That is my best guess too........ After round 6, Ali's jabs and crosses have Marciano cut above the eyes and bleeding from the mouth..... By round 10, its merely a matter of time before the corner cannot control Marciano's facial wounds and the doctor has got to call it off.........

Again, based on styles, I think Marciano would ONLY be successful with his body attack. Marciano would eat leather coming in, but he'd land some thudding shots to Ali's body..... Ali is noted for taking a tremendous shot to the body, as well as the jaw.......

I really think Marciano would struggle major league in hitting Ali with a jab or right hand to the face / jaw....... I can't see Marciano with his 68" inch reach being effective upstairs on the elusive master Ali..........

In the end, its Ali by TKO victory somewhere between rds 10 thru 13......... Marciano goes to the hospital to receive stitches and perhaps a pint of blood from storage........ WORD!

MR.BILL[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[Stevie G]

I don't see the Ali of Zaire losing to Rocky ....People forget just how strong Ali was .. Rocky would not tire like Foreman but he did not hit as hard nor had the 80 plus inch reach to hit him ... I'd take the Ali of 74 way over the Charles that went 15 with ocky ...
So would I.

[Terror]

From what I heard, they showed Marciano winning in the US because they felt that Marciano was more of an all-American guy.

In the UK theater release, Ali stopped Marciano on cuts.

That's what I read in Dundee's book and some other places.

[he grant]

[Only registered and activated users can see links]
Thats about how I see it too.

Marciano looks like Joe Pesce in size against Ali in this picture ...

[he grant]

From what I heard, they showed Marciano winning in the US because they felt that Marciano was more of an all-American guy.

In the UK theater release, Ali stopped Marciano on cuts.

That's what I read in Dundee's book and some other places.

Guys, the fight was produced in the late 1960's when Ali was despised, when no one yet knew how great he really was or how tough and in a transitionary period in American history when black athletes began to truly dominate across the board. The computer fight was a joke , a publicity stunt. Let's get real ...

[MRBILL]

Marciano winning the original comp. fight of '69 was due to several issues: White Power; Ali refusing military service duty and the fact that "The Rock" croaked in a plane crash + or - 1000 yds short of the runway in Iowa earlier in Aug. 1969....... All "KEY" factors is giving Rocky Marciano the win at the theatre....

However, I agree with the "Alternate" ending in which Ali batters a bloodied Marciano into a late round TKO defeat......

MR.BILL

[tommygun711]

I would pick Ali but he wouldn't just blow away the rock like a lot of you guys said. If Frazier can stun and knock down a nearly prime Ali, then it's not so far fetched to say that Marciano would at least trouble Ali.
he had more punches then frazier, who only had a left hook. he had a very powerful right cross, a good left hook, uppercuts, etc. the fact that Henry Cooper, chuck wepner, and Doug jones can knock down Ali, Marciano could too. this wasn't prime Ali, but it's still reliable.
I think Ali beats Marciano, but not easily. it would be a war.

[mjk612]

Here's the link: [Only registered and activated users can see links]

It is worth noting that this special is from 1976, and, if you watch the clips that go with this one, Ali seems to give Marciano the best chance against him. He also clearly says that he thinks Marciano is a little better than Frazier. Given that he also says "and you saw what Frazier did to me," this wasn't just a jab at Frazier. I agree with Ali's assessment - he wins, but this is a rough and tough fight. That is "realistic."

[mjk612]

I'll also add that Ali clearly thinks that he would no KO (or presumably TKO) Marciano.

[he grant]

I would pick Ali but he wouldn't just blow away the rock like a lot of you guys said. If Frazier can stun and knock down a nearly prime Ali, then it's not so far fetched to say that Marciano would at least trouble Ali.
he had more punches then frazier, who only had a left hook. he had a very powerful right cross, a good left hook, uppercuts, etc. the fact that Henry Cooper, chuck wepner, and Doug jones can knock down Ali, Marciano could too. this wasn't prime Ali, but it's still reliable.
I think Ali beats Marciano, but not easily. it would be a war.

I do't think anyone thinks Ali would blow Marciano away ... it's not Ali's style to do so and Rocky was such a tough SOB ... Ali would likely win a decision by boxing with size , reach and speed and/or possibly stop Rocky on cuts ...

Even though Ali seems to be universially recognized as the greatest heavyweight, which I'm not 100% sold on, He is not one of the more dangerous match ups for Rocky. I do not think Ali could really seriously hurt him and both Chuvalo and Frazier proved a Marciano type style could have success against Ali ...

[Tuaman]

However, I don't have 100% faith in this "Superfight Computer." Didn't they use that same computer to predict the Joe Frazier/Bob Foster fight? The "expert" computer predicted that Foster would knock out Frazier in 5 rounds, but in the actual fight, Frazier knocked out Foster in only two rounds. I believe that Rocky would beat Ali, but I don't trust the computer entirely.

The computer was right, however, in the sense that it picked the style of Rocky to beat Ali. It predicted that a pressure fighter would cut the ring and reduce Ali's speed, which is exactly what Frazier did a few years later.

I noticed that myself. This fight played out a lot like the first Ali-Frazier fight. Rocky lost the early rounds, but his body attack slowed Ali down and he gradually stepped up his pace and knocked Ali out. The same thing happened in the 1971 Ali-Frazier fight, only Joe didn't get a knockout.

[MRBILL]

Marciano was actually smaller than Frazier by about an inch in height and 15 to 20 solid pounds of weight.... I pick Frazier to breakdown Marciano in a time machine, too... "The Rock" never fought anyone as badass as the '71 version of Frazier....

MR.BILL:bbb:deal

[BUDW]

Cooper put Ali on the deck Rocky puts Ali out.

[MRBILL]

Cooper put Ali on the deck Rocky puts Ali out.


Manure.... Was Marciano's hook harder than Cooper's hook? Cooper was an ass-wicked hooker in the 1960s...

MR.BILL:deal

[SuzieQ49]

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[MRBILL]

Like I said, I bought the comp. fight disc a while ago, but I can only sit through the alternate ending in which Ali stops Marciano inside 13 rds on cuts.... The version of Marciano kayoing Ali down to the floor is too hard to digest here......

MR.BILL:deal:bbb:hat