I dont care what anyone says.....James Toney is better and would beat .......

[Toopretty]

Joe Calzaghe in any category of boxing. He will beat him prime for prime at 168. He would beat him to the HOF. He beats him on skill and boxing ability as JT is one of the best skilled guys of our ERA bar none. JT was elite for over 10+ years. To assume a swarmer like Calzaghe would beat JT ..easily..or not even make it 50/50 is retarded to say the least. It would be fun to see Calzaghe get cracked with counter right hands all night long and see how he would react with a better boxer in the ring with more skill. Just my view.

[rushman]

I aint exactly a JC fan. But it is pretty easy to point out that Toney has several losses over his career, and JC has none.

I mean, Thadzi?

[IntentionalButt]

He would beat him to the HOF.

What, you mean in a go-kart race? :huh

[KO Boxing]

I aint exactly a JC fan. But it is pretty easy to point out that Toney has several losses over his career, and JC has none.

I mean, Thadzi?
Toney has also fought the much greater opponents, hence the more losses. If Calzaghe had fought Jones, I'd be almost positive his record would be 4...whatever...-1

Have you seen the Thadzi fight? Pretty damn close, in a period of Toney's career where he wasn't exactly considered elite

[C Money]

Joe Calzaghe in any category of boxing. He will beat him prime for prime at 168. He would beat him to the HOF. He beats him on skill and boxing ability as JT is one of the best skilled guys of our ERA bar none. JT was elite for over 10+ years. To assume a swarmer like Calzaghe would beat JT ..easily..or not even make it 50/50 is retarded to say the least. It would be fun to see Calzaghe get cracked with counter right hands all night long and see how he would react with a better boxer in the ring with more skill. Just my view.

I'd like to agree, but?? Toneys performances were too inconsistent. I vomited when he did what little he did vs RJJ.

Unfortunately?? JT has a serious history of underperforming in BIG EVENTS, JC would be a big event.

Toney had one of the best Defenses in many years but always let conditioning and lack of volume bring him down.

As sick as it makes me to say it?? Calzaghe probably outworks him like RJJ did:-( :-( :-(

[brooklyn1550]

50/50 fight in which I would pick Calzaghe to win

Here is my analysis from a different thread

Toney-Calzaghe is a very interesting matchup. First off, Toney was such a crafty fighter who knew every trick in the book, could stand in one place and make you miss/pay, and he could throw every punch in the book as well. His straight right hand counter could spell trouble for Calzaghe as that is the punch he is most vulnerable to. And Calzaghe would leave himself open for some great Toney counters. Toney would most certainly not be getting stopped by Calzaghe either.

However, Calzaghe may just have the style to beat Toney at 168. Calzaghe's workrate, hand speed, and footwork would cause Toney problems. Toney is the greater fighter, the better counter puncher, the craftier fighter, has the better chin, the better jab, and was the better defensive fighter, but I believe Calzaghe has all the tools to win a close decision over Toney. I think he would keep Toney off balance with his feints and movements, work his way inside, fire off quick punches, and move right back out of range. Calzaghe would be the one staying busier and throwing more punches. Let's not forget the awkward angles and punches Calzaghe give and throws. Calzaghe is no slouch on the inside either - he's a truly dynamic fighter. Additionally, I also think Calzaghe has the chin and toughness to survive a late Toney onslaught.

Toney was best against slower, come forward guys, but against Calzaghe, I see him having trouble getting set to counter. Toney had an excellent, shot-gun jab, but Joe's a southpaw, so I doubt he would be able to effectively establish it.

Joe Calzaghe by unanimous decision

[Toopretty]

I aint exactly a JC fan. But it is pretty easy to point out that Toney has several losses over his career, and JC has none.

I mean, Thadzi?.

:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl:rofl yeah......I guess JT fighting in 5 divisions against championship caliber opponents in all of them and he was robbed the first Peter fight..lol..anyway...Calzaghe who???? wins against mandatories.. I dont think you need to be on a boxing site......

[Toopretty]

NAHHHHH...Calzaghe has nothing on JT...at 168 or anywhere.. You cannot compare how he looked in with Roy to calzaghe..calzaghe is nothing like roy in any aspect of fighting..not even close.....IN ANYTHING.

[Scar]

You never know, even though I do favor JT as well.

[C Money]

NAHHHHH...Calzaghe has nothing on JT...at 168 or anywhere.. You cannot compare how he looked in with Roy to calzaghe..calzaghe is nothing like roy in any aspect of fighting..not even close.....IN ANYTHING.

JC is a very good SMW and has fast hands and high volume.

A lethargic JT and.....It's an L!!

It gives me no pleasure to say that, as I said JT's defense and ability is incredible, yet he fell short and underperformed too often.

[jackiebrown]

JT is good in there with big sluggers.. and people who press the fight with big shots .. you get a guy in there with fast hands and in and out tricky movements ..
toney has trouble getting set ....

i dont see toney out working any one with tons of speed and shit ..

[box03]

James Toney is the better boxer in my opinion, at least he fought the best in all 5 divisions. Anybody good that Calazaghe fought were either out of there prime or never really had one. If Toney fought Calazaghe the night he fought Barkley, he would of took JTs head off.

[box03]

I mean JC would get knocked out.

[C Money]

James Toney is the better boxer in my opinion, at least he fought the best in all 5 divisions. Anybody good that Calazaghe fought were either out of there prime or never really had one. If Toney fought Calazaghe the night he fought Barkley, he would of took JTs head off.

Ok... I'll buy the night of Barkley, but any other night??

IT's Calzaghe.

I've got mad respect for Toney, I've wished many times that he could be more consistent.

[Toopretty]

Calzaghe would not beat Toney....and HOF...Hall of Fame........................................I thought that was simple.

[C Money]

Calzaghe would not beat Toney....and HOF...Hall of Fame........................................I thought that was simple.

I wouldnt like it, but??? Tell me you werent disgusted against RJJ either:nono

[box03]

Ok... I'll buy the night of Barkley, but any other night??

IT's Calzaghe.

I've got mad respect for Toney, I've wished many times that he could be more consistent. Toney had more power at SM in my opinion which could be a factor, but Toney on his best night vs Calazaghe on his best night Toney wins. It sucks that Toney cant stay in shape and now has to resort to steroids to enhance his ability.

[IntentionalButt]

Calzaghe would not beat Toney....and HOF...Hall of Fame........................................I thought that was simple.
Nobody was confused as to what you meant by HOF. What you said, though, is 'Toney would beat him to the HOF'. Like in some hypothetical fictitious race. When in fact they'd both be blown away by...



















































[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[El Bombasto]

Toney has also fought the much greater opponents, hence the more losses. If Calzaghe had fought Jones, I'd be almost positive his record would be 4...whatever...-1

Have you seen the Thadzi fight? Pretty damn close, in a period of Toney's career where he wasn't exactly considered elite

i think it's pretty safe to assume that calfaggi would beat thadzi and griffin, and rather easily i might add......

[Toopretty]

I wouldnt like it, but??? Tell me you werent disgusted against RJJ either:nono

Toney was weight drained and not 100% ...shit..he moved up right after that fight....JT vs. JC prime for prime best for best..JT beats him. I dont see it any other way. JC is not the best at 168 all time and he as not proven shit. He is a great fighter..JT is the better fighter and beats him.

[Toopretty]

i think it's pretty safe to assume that calfaggi would beat thadzi and griffin, and rather easily i might add......

Based on what....lol....retard...beating Lacy....oh better..Manfredo.....oh one more...going to war with Robin Reid..I got ya...all of these sub caliber fighters at 168...ingrate.

[El Bombasto]

Based on what....lol....retard...beating Lacy....oh better..Manfredo.....oh one more...going to war with Robin Reid..I got ya...all of these sub caliber fighters at 168...ingrate.

wow, i didn't know that thadzi and griffin were that highly regarded.....well, at leat by some tards around here.....

[Amsterdam]

Calzaghe wins wide - 117-111. He has the worst style for Toney to adapt against outside of Roy Jones.

Jones runs and explodes, Calzaghe constantly explodes, but with less speed and precision than Jones.

[Toopretty]

Calzaghe wins wide - 117-111. He has the worst style for Toney to adapt against outside of Roy Jones.

Jones runs and explodes, Calzaghe constantly explodes, but with less speed and precision than Jones.

And Calzaghe would be there to eat a counter right hand unlike jones..and Calzaghe exploding would be an implosion..Exploding on Toney is when he knocks you the fuck out......Boxers who hit and stay away beat him...nobody got in dirty and beat him.....never...

[Amsterdam]

And Calzaghe would be there to eat a counter right hand unlike jones..and Calzaghe exploding would be an implosion..Exploding on Toney is when he knocks you the fuck out......Boxers who hit and stay away beat him...nobody got in dirty and beat him.....never...

Problem is that Toney shells up far too much against speed, he'd get the right in at times, but not enough and he'd get tied up a lot and would have to deal with that, plus the fact that he shells into his shoulder roll, this leaves him open for awkward angle shots.

It's an easy night for Calzaghe relatively, by way of styles.

Calzaghe also obliterates Nunn, Eubank, Benn and the rest of the guys under Jones at that time.

[Toopretty]

Problem is that Toney shells up far too much against speed, he'd get the right in at times, but not enough and he'd get tied up a lot and would have to deal with that, plus the fact that he shells into his shoulder roll, this leaves him open for awkward angle shots.

It's an easy night for Calzaghe relatively, by way of styles.

Calzaghe also obliterates Nunn, Eubank, Benn and the rest of the guys under Jones at that time.

Yeah OK...you live in calzaghe nuthugger lala land. There is no coming back to the normal sane realm for you. You are too far gone. I tried to give you amnesty on the subject but you are a disgrace to Calzaghe:-(...Benn would probably knock Calzaghe out...Nunn would not be a push over..lol I guess you seem to forget these great fighters of the late 80s early 90s. WOW.

[Toopretty]

Problem is that Toney shells up far too much against speed, he'd get the right in at times, but not enough and he'd get tied up a lot and would have to deal with that, plus the fact that he shells into his shoulder roll, this leaves him open for awkward angle shots.

It's an easy night for Calzaghe relatively, by way of styles.

Calzaghe also obliterates Nunn, Eubank, Benn and the rest of the guys under Jones at that time.

Retard...Toney never stayed in his shell..lol against speed or anything else..if a fighter is throwing WIDE slapping side arm girl punches JT will slam his right hand into Calzaghes mugg and roll majority of his slapfest unlike fighters like Lacy and Manfredo sauce who dont have that talent. Calzaghes unability to throw a good str8 power punch would be his destruction against Toney..no looping puncher no matter how fast would avoid JT counter punches...none have...none will...

[Amsterdam]

You don't even know what you are talking about. Toney shells into his guard/shoulder roll when blitzed with a speed attack and is exceptionally open to awkward angles from that position.

I also recognise fighters from all era's, I have more knowledge than you will ever know.

You are nothing more than a shit starter.

[Toopretty]

You don't even know what you are talking about. Toney shells into his guard/shoulder roll when blitzed with a speed attack and is exceptionally open to awkward angles from that position.

I also recognise fighters from all era's, I have more knowledge than you will ever know.

You are nothing more than a shit starter.

:rofl:rofl:rofl YO! you have become a joke the last few weeks with your bullshit Calzaghe crap..EVERYBODY on ESB is laughing at you. I exposed your stupid theoires and you are full of crap...Calzaghe is not that good at all ...easy to hit...by lesser fighters...you need to stop while you are ahead.

[Amsterdam]

:rofl:rofl:rofl YO! you have become a joke the last few weeks with your bullshit Calzaghe crap..EVERYBODY on ESB is laughing at you. I exposed your stupid theoires and you are full of crap...Calzaghe is not that good at all ...easy to hit...by lesser fighters...you need to stop while you are ahead.

Calzaghe is the greatest fighter of all time, when you learn to accept this, you will be mentally set free.

Go on now, it's bed time for the little people.

[Toopretty]

When the fuck has Calzaghe been easy to hit cleanly? He can make himself a horribly hard fighter land against, and he sure as hell knows how to keep himself out of range. Calzaghe knows how to prepare himself. He would know that Toney would be looking to land the counter right hand.
And Toney never had spectacular hand speed at any weight. Not that he was a slow fighter, but he doesnt have to the sheer quickness and agility to trouble Calzaghe enough to land enough solid punches to knock him out. Calzaghe has a pretty good chin. He has been knocked down but he then went on to Kncok the guys out. And the fact that he was able to take Lacys and Bikas best shots tells me Toney isnt going to be able to hurt him too much.
Toney was strong at 168 no doubt but he has never been known as a powerful puncher at any weight. He could catch you at the right time. Thats how he scord knockouts, when a guy was in an awkward position or moving foward and his momentum sent him into the punch. He has never been a one punch kind of guy. I dont recall any of his opponents talking about how hard he rattled them. It was usually more a "he caught me at a bad spot" or "i was coming in and he slipped in that perfect right hand".

Calzaghe..been fucking hit more then any other top fighter..he goes in to slugfests with lesser fights then claims he did it to put on a show like a cunt..NO...b/c you had to....he has limitations and dont have shit on Toney on any aspect...His handspeed is null b/c he throws side armed wide punches which would not hit or land clean on toney and toney would catch his ass as he has way better accuracy and timing.

[WiDDoW_MaKeR]

I don't think so. Calzaghe's style is hell on wheels for James Toney. James Toney loves those guys that comes in on him, leans on him, and falls into his defensive games. JC would be swinging punches like crazy, hitting Toney everywhere... and would never just lay on him, waiting to be countered. I see JC taking a clear decision prime vs prime at 168.

[Decker]

Like I said in the other thread, Calzaghe outworks, out hustles and out-speeds Toney all night to a UD.Saw many of JT's fights when he was at lower weights - they were on regular/cable tv. Toney nuthuggers act like he was invincible and rolled over everybody. Calzaghe-Toney would be a very competitive fight. It wouldn't surprise me if Joe scored a UD. :yep

[brooklyn1550]

I've seen some people say Toney schools Marvin Hagler and beats him 9 times out of 10.

[RAMPAGE0017]

You don't even know what you are talking about. Toney shells into his guard/shoulder roll when blitzed with a speed attack and is exceptionally open to awkward angles from that position.

I also recognise fighters from all era's, I have more knowledge than you will ever know.

You are nothing more than a shit starter.


He shells up, but he doesn't stop throwing. Jirov was pressuring him for their entire fight, yet Toney was still actively throwing many shots. Granted Calzaghe is probably harder to connect on than Jirov, but still.. you're simplifying Toney's style just a tad.

[Amsterdam]

I've seen some people say Toney schools Marvin Hagler and beats him 9 times out of 10.

Toney should be the favourite over Hagler in my opinion, not 9 times out of 10 and not a schooling, but the favourite.

[brooklyn1550]

Toney should be the favourite over Hagler in my opinion, not 9 times out of 10 and not a schooling, but the favourite.

Really? Toney was so inconsistant at 160. He had troubles with Mike McCallum and Dave Tiberi. I wouldn't pick anybody over a prime Hagler at 160. He was one of the most complete fighters ever. He could get the better of Toney on the inside, outwork him, outmuscle him, and use his jab from long range. Hagler was also a great counter puncher in his prime. Overall, just a better fighter than Toney. Hagler was so determined and so mentally strong. I don't envision Toney winning the championship rounds against Marvin Hagler.

I see this as a 116-112 type decision

[maximumsg]

toney definately the better fighter, but at alone who knows joe has not proved enough yet. He has a big test ahead of him so lets wait and see. On the other note if toney could have only stayed in shape, and I'm taliking just not gained over 10 or 20 pounds at most in between fights I don't know if I could have ever bet against him. Just imagine if he had stayed in shape after the holyfield fight, he could have ruled for several years at heavyweight. The man is the greatest natural born fighter I have ever seen.

[Lance_Uppercut]

Calzaghe is the greatest fighter of all time, when you learn to accept this, you will be mentally set free.

Go on now, it's bed time for the little people.

You are Bigtime9!

[Lance_Uppercut]

JT is one of the most over-rated boxers who deserves to be rated. No questioning James Toney is a HOF boxer, no question at all - but cmon, the guy was infinitely beatable against faster punchers with good workrates.

How? Or WHO is this fast puncher w/ high work rate you are basing this on?

[He Hate Me]

Joe Calzaghe in any category of boxing. He will beat him prime for prime at 168. He would beat him to the HOF. He beats him on skill and boxing ability as JT is one of the best skilled guys of our ERA bar none. JT was elite for over 10+ years. To assume a swarmer like Calzaghe would beat JT ..easily..or not even make it 50/50 is retarded to say the least. It would be fun to see Calzaghe get cracked with counter right hands all night long and see how he would react with a better boxer in the ring with more skill. Just my view.

Primed jt would have an advantage.

[Grabonator]

Joe Calzaghe in any category of boxing. He will beat him prime for prime at 168. He would beat him to the HOF. He beats him on skill and boxing ability as JT is one of the best skilled guys of our ERA bar none. JT was elite for over 10+ years. To assume a swarmer like Calzaghe would beat JT ..easily..or not even make it 50/50 is retarded to say the least. It would be fun to see Calzaghe get cracked with counter right hands all night long and see how he would react with a better boxer in the ring with more skill. Just my view.

Well i agree with you. And in shape Toney at 168 can beat anyone. The guy was a master.

[cuchulain]

Joe Calzaghe in any category of boxing. He will beat him prime for prime at 168. He would beat him to the HOF. He beats him on skill and boxing ability as JT is one of the best skilled guys of our ERA bar none. JT was elite for over 10+ years. To assume a swarmer like Calzaghe would beat JT ..easily..or not even make it 50/50 is retarded to say the least. It would be fun to see Calzaghe get cracked with counter right hands all night long and see how he would react with a better boxer in the ring with more skill. Just my view.

Toney would definitely beat Joe in a do-nut eating competition.

Seriously though, while it would be a very competitive fight and NOT a foregone conclusion, Joe would have to be the favourite prime-for-prime at 168.

( I believe Joe would beat him presently at any weight either man chose to fight)

[cuchulain]

You are Bigtime9!

You really know how to insult a guy !

[Toopretty]

Actually, Joe is as fast as Roy Jones JR in combinations - Roy had a way faster trigger on single punches and especially that lead right but in combination shots, Joe possesses similar speed to Roy.

Roy had more power in his shots, definitely - Roy schools Calzaghe. Calzaghe does it pretty easily against Toney.

NOW do you see what we are dealing with..Calzaghe fans act like we dont have youtube..and we cant go back and watch Calzaghe in his all out wars against bums and sub par fighters in which the ref usually jumped in prematurely when the guy was not even close to being knocked out and just was a little hurt by his flurries of side armed punches with ROY JONES SPEED...lol forever on that.

[Toopretty]

How? Or WHO is this fast puncher w/ high work rate you are basing this on?

Good point...lol Calzaghe does not fight in a style to beat JT...Calzaghe jumps in to land his scoring flurries without that he cannot outbox toney on the outside on the inside he gets schooled by probably the best all around in fighter in the game for the past 20 years. I would love to see Calzaghe jump in on toney and square up like he does and lets both his side arm girl like swing fest hands go on the inside..That would be hilarious.

[RAMPAGE0017]

Actually, Joe is as fast as Roy Jones JR in combinations - Roy had a way faster trigger on single punches and especially that lead right but in combination shots, Joe possesses similar speed to Roy.




:lol:

[Toopretty]

:lol:
:lol::lol: I know right..these guys gone bonkers..this guy.

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

is as fast of hands as this

guy[Only registered and activated users can see links]




NAHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh I think not...these ingrates

[Toopretty]

Not only was Roy faster..hit harder...and better then Joey..lol..he did things like Feints and disguised his punches and did not just wail away barrages of "I hope I land" The more I watch Calzaghe the more I realize he was just basically a swarmer that held after he threw his flurries which had no accuracy by the way..Roy hit you....Roy had accuracy...Those who think the Roy that dominated Toney shows the blueprint of what calzaghe would do dont know shit about boxing. Roy didnt just blow Toney out of the water..he used crazy 3,4,5 feints with ease before he let his hands go. Calzaghe just starts the motor and does a constant barrage which a defensive master like toney would pick him off unlike the other no defense having bums calzaghe fought..lol

[Toopretty]

Have you even watched Calzaghe fight? I'm thinking not.

Calzaghe is one of the more accurate punchers in the sport, he links together punches very well and tends to hit a high threshhold - you don't hit a guy a thousand times in a night without being accurate.

Me thinks you've read his boxrec without actually seeing him - Joe feints alot, he disguises his punches, he doesn't just wail away, usually he waits for his opening.

Joe a swarmer? Only afte rh makes you miss from the outside

Go watch his fights before judging him. It's obvious to me you haven't.

You retard.. I just post a link of his top 5 favorite fights from when he was on FNF and that covered his Eubank Fight to the Lacy fight..as I said an non accurate swarmer and he hit lacy b/c lacy came right at him str8 a head with no type of angle or movement. As I said...Toney schools this swarmer.

[Amsterdam]

You retard.. I just post a link of his top 5 favorite fights from when he was on FNF and that covered his Eubank Fight to the Lacy fight..as I said an non accurate swarmer and he hit lacy b/c lacy came right at him str8 a head with no type of angle or movement. As I said...Toney schools this swarmer.

Godzaghe is also a premium boxer if needed and very hard to hit at his best.

[Max Molyneux]

If he gets outboxed by Peter, then Calzaghe would outbox him too.

[Ambition_Def]

Calzaghe isn't as fast as Jones was in his prime, no doubt about it.

But that said, Calzaghe is a very different kind of fight. No he isn't gonna feint from the outside multiple times to throw you off and land a clean right hand. What he will do though is stand inside and throw alot of punches. Now that may seem like a counter puncher's dream, but in reality Calzaghe isn't just throwing stock trade punches. He has a very intelligent swarming style. Just look at his style. Actually it reminds me alot of watching Pavlik how he catches guys down low and with uppercuts and right hands upstairs.

All those little evasive moves that Toney does like leaning to his left, rolling his shoulder and catching with his glove will be invitations for hooks to the body, uppercuts to the chin and right hands to the ear. Toney gets away with this alot against guys who throw stock trade punches. You know guys who aren't offensive thinkers, they just do what their trainer tells them.

I think Calzaghe-Toney is a closer fight than Jones-Toney, because neither guy is going to seize the advantage of footwork and distance. But I don't see Toney having an easy time with Calzaghe on the inside either. I think Calzaghe is a bit too smart, infact smarter than most of the 60some guys Toney walked over as supermiddleweight champion.

[Toopretty]

Calzaghe isn't as fast as Jones was in his prime, no doubt about it.

But that said, Calzaghe is a very different kind of fight. No he isn't gonna feint from the outside multiple times to throw you off and land a clean right hand. What he will do though is stand inside and throw alot of punches. Now that may seem like a counter puncher's dream, but in reality Calzaghe isn't just throwing stock trade punches. He has a very intelligent swarming style. Just look at his style. Actually it reminds me alot of watching Pavlik how he catches guys down low and with uppercuts and right hands upstairs.

All those little evasive moves that Toney does like leaning to his left, rolling his shoulder and catching with his glove will be invitations for hooks to the body, uppercuts to the chin and right hands to the ear. Toney gets away with this alot against guys who throw stock trade punches. You know guys who aren't offensive thinkers, they just do what their trainer tells them.

I think Calzaghe-Toney is a closer fight than Jones-Toney, because neither guy is going to seize the advantage of footwork and distance. But I don't see Toney having an easy time with Calzaghe on the inside either. I think Calzaghe is a bit too smart, infact smarter than most of the 60some guys Toney walked over as supermiddleweight champion.

Nope...wrong on majority accounts...Toneys evasive moves would MAKE calzaghe miss majority of his wide slapping shots and what else would calzaghe have to do..when JT rolls and bends back calzaghe would have to get close to land as he does anyway with his slapping shots...JT had very quick hands at middle and super middle. And like I said he would hit Calzaghe to the body with the jab and Toney would SCHOOL Calzaghe on the inside where TONEY makes you close the distance...and if Calzaghe did not he would not land...Remember..those punches are not str8 punches............THEY ARE ARM PUNCHES THROWN SIDE WAYS it does not have the reach of a str8 shot need to stay on the outside of Toney and not over commit...

[Toopretty]

LOL look how calzaghe bulls in with his head and just bangs out arm punches..against BREWER....lol...........................................................Toney would ICE that MOFO.

[Ambition_Def]

Yea but see you act like the only way to hit Toney is straight on from a distance. I've seen Toney get hit plenty from guys who aimed for his ear if you know what I'm saying.

Calzaghe doesn't just throw wide slaps either. Those are some short hooks he throws inside. Look how he caught Mitchell after being knocked down. That left hook was as short as they come. What is the best punch to land on a guy who leans into your left? The left hook right? What punch did Roy drop Toney with? And what position was Toney in when he fell? He was leaning into Jones' left, and got dropped with a left hook if I recall correctly.

And about that fight with Brewer. Calzaghe admitted that he didn't box Brewer like he should have. He went a little wild. That doesn't mean he is gonna be wild against Toney you know.

I'll say it again. I don't think Toney has an easy time inside with him. Calzaghe hasn't been where he is by throwing wide slapping punches his whole career.

[Ambition_Def]

And you know what. Now that I watch Jones-Toney again everytime Jones had Toney off balance it was the left hook that did it.

I have little doubt watching this that Calzaghe couldn't do much of the same.

[Toopretty]

And you know what. Now that I watch Jones-Toney again everytime Jones had Toney off balance it was the left hook that did it.

I have little doubt watching this that Calzaghe couldn't do much of the same.

For one thing you are forgetting the whole action and the actual left hook..lol..you are funny though...JT dropped his guard mimicing Roys taunt and JT was off balance and not even hurt in the slighest and almost stayed on his feet after back pedaling like 10 feet without actually falling. ...and to correct you Toney was not even in a defensive posture.....lol..one more key point....IT WAS A LEAPING LEFT HOOK...LAST TIME I CHECKED JOE DID NOT HAVE THAT KIND OF SPEED AND REFLEX AND ATHlETIC ABILITY TO DO THAT. After watching Calzaghe go to war with fighters with no insided game and NO defense and actually square up as he always does and proceeds to throw wide slapping punches..I am sold that JT whoops his ass.:yep

[Ambition_Def]

Those weren't all leaping left hooks. :nono

Jones knew that he had Toney when he stood up to mimic him. He knew the next thing Toney would do, as he always does, is lean into that left. Thats what makes Toney so hard to hit with the right hand. But see Jones knew he had a small window to catch Toney leaning into his left.

Calzaghe isn't as fast as Jones, but that left hook is STILL faster than anything Sam Peter or any other cruiser/heavy throws.

And to Sam's part he caught Toney after the lean into his left. When Toney leans all the way then he's a sitting duck for a right hand behind the ear. That is where Sam did his damage and didn't need to be fast.

Now if Sam is smart enough to figure that out I have no doubt that Calzaghe can figure it out too. Toney essentially fought alot of guys who had a stock trade 1-2 style. Is it any wonder that Jones, who is a very unorthodox quick fighter :see also Calzaghe, beat the shit out of him?

Not to me. :smoke

[Piffer]

If he gets outboxed by Peter, then Calzaghe would outbox him too.

Peter didn't outbox him, he clubbed for 12 rounds him when he was badly faded. Peter himself was 'outboxed' in their first fight. Fucking A, Samuel Peter will NEVER outbox anyone.:lol::lol:

[DoumB]

NAHHHHH...Calzaghe has nothing on JT...at 168 or anywhere.. You cannot compare how he looked in with Roy to calzaghe..calzaghe is nothing like roy in any aspect of fighting..not even close.....IN ANYTHING.


no he aint, but hes simply better then toney for many reasons, was faster, more of a stand up fighter, toney was depending on his reflex while Joe depend on volume punching and angle, toney wouldnt evade all those punches, sure he could make Joe miss a few in the earlier part of the fight but the mor the fight goes on he would get atgged and a lot to a 12 round decision win for JC

[Piffer]

Those weren't all leaping left hooks. :nono

Jones knew that he had Toney when he stood up to mimic him. He knew the next thing Toney would do, as he always does, is lean into that left. Thats what makes Toney so hard to hit with the right hand. But see Jones knew he had a small window to catch Toney leaning into his left.

Calzaghe isn't as fast as Jones, but that left hook is STILL faster than anything Sam Peter or any other cruiser/heavy throws.

And to Sam's part he caught Toney after the lean into his left. When Toney leans all the way then he's a sitting duck for a right hand behind the ear. That is where Sam did his damage and didn't need to be fast.

Now if Sam is smart enough to figure that out I have no doubt that Calzaghe can figure it out too. Toney essentially fought alot of guys who had a stock trade 1-2 style. Is it any wonder that Jones, who is a very unorthodox quick fighter :see also Calzaghe, beat the shit out of him?

Not to me. :smoke

I'm sick of people thinking that Peter has any sort of ring smarts. Yeah, he landed a few clubbing right hands, but he was by no means 'smart enough' to land it on a consistent basis.

[Piffer]

no he aint, but hes simply better then toney for many reasons, was faster, more of a stand up fighter, toney was depending on his reflex while Joe depend on volume punching and angle, toney wouldnt evade all those punches, sure he could make Joe miss a few in the earlier part of the fight but the mor the fight goes on he would get atgged and a lot to a 12 round decision win for JC

thats what many said about Jirov, who is bigger and even more of a volume puncher than Calzaghe. The volume punching argument cannot be used here, sorry.

[DoumB]

For one thing you are forgetting the whole action and the actual left hook..lol..you are funny though...JT dropped his guard mimicing Roys taunt and JT was off balance and not even hurt in the slighest and almost stayed on his feet after back pedaling like 10 feet without actually falling. ...and to correct you Toney was not even in a defensive posture.....lol..one more key point....IT WAS A LEAPING LEFT HOOK...LAST TIME I CHECKED JOE DID NOT HAVE THAT KIND OF SPEED AND REFLEX AND ATHlETIC ABILITY TO DO THAT. After watching Calzaghe go to war with fighters with no insided game and NO defense and actually square up as he always does and proceeds to throw wide slapping punches..I am sold that JT whoops his ass.:yep

JC step up to the caliber of opposition he fights, something Toney cant do

[DoumB]

thats what many said about Jirov, who is bigger and even more of a volume puncher than Calzaghe. The volume punching argument cannot be used here, sorry.

sorry jirov and JC aint the same fighter at ALL

[brooklyn1550]

Calzaghe uses feints very well. If you watch him, he is always feinting/moving in and out, making it hard for his opponents to know when he is throwing and from where he is throwing.

[Ambition_Def]

I'm sick of people thinking that Peter has any sort of ring smarts. Yeah, he landed a few clubbing right hands, but he was by no means 'smart enough' to land it on a consistent basis.

Meh.. You don't wanna give the man an ounce of credit do you? He damn near caught Toney with every right hand he threw as Toney was fully bent into his left. That is smart no matter what you say. Nobody, not Holyfield, Ruiz, Rahman or anyone else had tried that with Toney up until that fight.

Yea Toney was faded but so what. Sam is a big heavyweight who is slow compared to the 168lb guys Toney fought in his prime. So if you ask me, it all evens out.

[DoumB]

Calzaghe uses feints very well. If you watch him, he is always feinting/moving in and out, making it hard for his opponents to know when he is throwing and from where he is throwing.

yeah I love watching him for that, his faints leaves his oppoeneents confusez and almost eyes closed, I cant remember the fight where he feintd a left and the guy closed his guard and closed his eyes, joe stepped to the right and body punched him hard, that was funny:yep

[Ambition_Def]

thats what many said about Jirov, who is bigger and even more of a volume puncher than Calzaghe. The volume punching argument cannot be used here, sorry.

Jirov's main focus is on the body, which Toney covers up very well except around his right side. And besides that most of Jirov's work is very straight forward right hands and body shots. Not many Eastern-Euro fighters throw wide punches and Jirov was no exception.

And contrary to the whole Toney argument in this thread, Toney has always been open to wide punches. You just have to be fast enough to land them.

[Piffer]

Meh.. You don't wanna give the man an ounce of credit do you? He damn near caught Toney with every right hand he threw as Toney was fully bent into his left. That is smart no matter what you say. Nobody, not Holyfield, Ruiz, Rahman or anyone else had tried that with Toney up until that fight.

Yea Toney was faded but so what. Sam is a big heavyweight who is slow compared to the 168lb guys Toney fought in his prime. So if you ask me, it all evens out.
Bull. Fucking. Shit.

[Ambition_Def]

Bull. Fucking. Shit.

Nice of you to take what I say out of context.

I said anytime Toney leaned all the way into his left a Sam Peter right hand nailed him behind the ear. Just about everytime anyways.

So give him some credit instead of being a hater. :hi:

[DoumB]

That has more to do with the level of competiton..
Toney would be undefeated too if he took Scary Joe's sorry path..:deal

possible, but that doesnt mean joe couldnt beat him.

[Piffer]

Jirov's main focus is on the body, which Toney covers up very well except around his right side. And besides that most of Jirov's work is very straight forward right hands and body shots. Not many Eastern-Euro fighters throw wide punches and Jirov was no exception.

And contrary to the whole Toney argument in this thread, Toney has always been open to wide punches. You just have to be fast enough to land them.

Calzaghe doesn't have the power or volume of Jirov. He doesn't have the footwork of Jones. And I don't know what fight you were watching: Jirov threw wide looping punches all night long.

[Ambition_Def]

Calzaghe doesn't have the power or volume of Jirov. He doesn't have the footwork of Jones. And I don't know what fight you were watching: Jirov threw wide looping punches all night long.

He doesn't need power. He needs speed, which Jirov is nowhere close to Calzaghe in that department. And Jirov most certainly did not focus on wide punches. It's on youtube as we speek check it out. His main attack was a jab and a straight right hand. When they did fall in then Jirov did his stock trade body punching.

And Jirov is pretty far from unorthodox as well.

[Piffer]

sorry jirov and JC aint the same fighter at ALL

Yeah no shit. You're the one using the volume punching argument.

[DoumB]

Yeah no shit. You're the one using the volume punching argument.

volume punching used with footwork and SPEED is a real different story, especialy when u consider the angle's joe is taking to throw them.

[kirk]

JC would do a better job (obviously) then jirov did of outworking JT, but instead of throwing arm punches at nothing, JC would be more accurate, more measured, would not be there to hit, ect...

Ill take JC by decision. Unless someone can break it down for me why JC would not just win more rounds through his aggression and workrate.

I think he has too much activity and movement for james.... the jirov fight was no walk in the park, and i think JC would do a much much much better job.

[DoumB]

JC would do a better job (obviously) then jirov did of outworking JT, but instead of throwing arm punches at nothing, JC would be more accurate, more measured, would not be there to hit, ect...

Ill take JC by decision. Unless someone can break it down for me why JC would not just win more rounds through his aggression and workrate.

I think he has too much activity and movement for james.... the jirov fight was no walk in the park, and i think JC would do a much much much better job.

yep, Toney had trouble with jirov who is far from JC in term of abilities

[DoumB]

When did Joe ever fight somebody on Toney's level????...NEVER..!

James is not Tocker Pudwell..

Slappy would NOT be able to wade-in behind those girlish..wide..sloppy combos..because Toney would pull-counter and KNOCK HIS ASS COLD..

YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT BOXING

Toney's lethal right hand is always COCKED and HIDDEN..His chin is ALWAYS TUCKED(unlike Joey)behind his shoulder..There is nothing there but TROUBLE for anybody SQUARED-UP as Calizzhaggi

Joe also has a bad habit of PULLING STRAIGHT BACK..

That might work in WBO land..but it'll SURELY get you KTFO in WBC..IBF..and WBA Country..

THAT'S WHY JOE DUMPED THE IBF...HE DIDN'T WANT TO FACE THE TOUGHER CONTENDERS:deal :deal :deal :deal :hi:

Only an old tranny would pull a stunt like that..

ur hate is blinding u and only show us that your boxing knowledge is limited.:patsch

[kirk]

When did Joe ever fight somebody on Toney's level????...NEVER..!

James is not Tocker Pudwell..

Slappy would NOT be able to wade-in behind those girlish..wide..sloppy combos..because Toney would pull-counter and KNOCK HIS ASS COLD..

YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT ABOUT BOXING

Toney's lethal right hand is always COCKED and HIDDEN..His chin is ALWAYS TUCKED(unlike Joey)behind his shoulder..There is nothing there but TROUBLE for anybody SQUARED-UP as Calizzhaggi

Joe also has a bad habit of PULLING STRAIGHT BACK..

That might work in WBO land..but it'll SURELY get you KTFO in WBC..IBF..and WBA Country..

THAT'S WHY JOE DUMPED THE IBF...HE DIDN'T WANT TO FACE THE TOUGHER CONTENDERS:deal :deal :deal :deal :hi:

Only an old tranny would pull a stunt like that..

i dont know hit about boxing?

right... :rofl :patsch


sorry... if jirov could make things tough on toney, by coming forward applying pressure, and throwing arm punches at toneys shoulders... shit... the last couple rounds he was barely looking where he was throwing... and he stood RIGHT in front of toney just getting hit at will..

your saying JC couldnt do that? ya... hes not as powerful as jirov, but hes faster, speed is much more effective against toney then power.

ya... i dont know shit about boxing.. lol. kk bud. oh... is this juiced toney or... if there is such a thing... non juiced toney?

[brooklyn1550]

Yes they are, most definitely. Too much drugs.

Then why don't you provide us a detailed analysis breaking down the fight and breaking down each fighter's strengths and weaknesses and how they would do against eachother.

[kirk]

thats what many said about Jirov, who is bigger and even more of a volume puncher than Calzaghe. The volume punching argument cannot be used here, sorry.

sup piffer...

i actually do think it works here, because it would be used by JC to effectively take rounds that are up in the air imo... when toney is doing nothing, or trying to take him to the ropes to counter off him (like he did greatly against jirov) but his workrate and volume i think, though in numbers aspects is not as great as jirovs, in effectiveness i think is better.... he wont just stand in front of toney winging punches, and eating power bombs all night like jirov. i think his speed, volume, and that he wont be there to hit much for toney, just spell bad news for JT.

I think they go back and forth but with JC winning the rounds 8-4 abouts..... just through his activity, movement and speed... and not letting JT effectively counter in return... like hes been able to do against most opponents cuz they stand there for him, trying to unload their own shots.

[brooklyn1550]

I think they actually know better..Deep down inside they KNOW Joe ain't shit compared to James Toney

Unlike Shitty Joe..James has been fighting in big fights against ELITE comp since he was in his 20's

In terms of resume and overall accomplishments, yes, Joe Calzaghe is not in James Toney's league. But when you break down this fight, Joe Calzaghe matches up very well with James. Head to head and accomplishments are two different things.

[box03]

At least Toney fought somebody worth a shit, Calzaghes resume is realitively nameless. You can talk shit on Taylor as much you want but its pretty sad when a 27 yearold who had the title a little more than 2 years now, has a better resume than a man who held a title for more than 10 years now.

[kirk]

Then why don't you provide us a detailed analysis breaking down the fight and breaking down each fighter's strengths and weaknesses and how they would do against eachother. Dude.... come on now...

they just previded us with...


'You're blind as Mr MaGoo'


These mofos are really TRIPPIN'



uuuuuh..... this is concrete right here man. No further explenation needed. i can see now that JT would knock out JC easy, cuz... well...

''Slappy Joe couldn't walk 10cm in Toney's footsteps''

[brooklyn1550]

Dude.... come on now...

they just previded us with...


'You're blind as Mr MaGoo'


These mofos are really TRIPPIN'



uuuuuh..... this is concrete right here man. No further explenation needed. i can see now that JT would knock out JC easy, cuz... well...

''Slappy Joe couldn't walk 10cm in Toney's footsteps''

:lol:

[kirk]

At least Toney fought somebody worth a shit, Calzaghes resume is realitively nameless. You can talk shit on Taylor as much you want but its pretty sad when a 27 yearold who had the title a little more than 2 years now, has a better resume than a man who held a title for more than 10 years now.

As far as im concerned, there is no doubt in my mind that AS OF NOW, Toney should and is ranked much much higher then JC... based off his longevity, resume, obvious abililty, and all around bad assness.

[brooklyn1550]

How can you talk about juiced fighters with a pic of VARGAS in your siggy?:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

FUCKING HYPOCRITE

Joe would get caught by the same sneaky right hand that FLOORED Jirov..but he would not get up..

The Jirov fight was at cruiser...
At 168 Toney was in his prime..and just WAYY too much for Joe..:deal

What makes you think that one sneaky right hand would knock out Joe for the 10 count? Are you saying this based off past evidence of JC being knocked out cold?

[brooklyn1550]

Allow me

Not only has Toney been in bigger fights with far better Comp..

His stance is far superior to Joe's

Toney fights at an angle...his chin tucked behind his soulder..his right hand..hidden..

Joe on the other hand..has faced far less formidable opposition..and he tends to come in wide..he has a habit of keeping his chin in the air..and he pulls STRAIGH BACK

Toney is by far the bigger puncher..and has the skill and craftiness to fight much bigger guys..Joe does not fight bigger men..

Toney does not slap..nor is he afraid of stiff competiton

Good analysis - I have no problems now that you have explained your thinking:good

[Piffer]

volume punching used with footwork and SPEED is a real different story, especialy when u consider the angle's joe is taking to throw them.

Thats right

But the sacrifice of power that comes from that will not be enough to bother James, who has been in with and beaten fighters who have both better footwork and equal or greater handspeed than Calzaghe. He could outwork James early on, but with no real power that can bother James, he'd get countered, even after he hit James flush.