175 lb 1st Round-Tommy Loughran vs Bob Foster

[Flea Man]

Someone got in front of me, but all GENUINE REASONS AND VOTES are needed now;

12 rounds, does Loughran manage it, or does Foster boss it in his own way?

No reason, no vote:good

[red cobra]

I'll repeat my call on that other thread, only with the Reader's Digest version and say Loughran w12 Foster.

[Flea Man]

I'll repeat my call on that other thread, only with the Reader's Digest version and say Loughran w12 Foster.

:goodHope everyone that has posted on the other thread does the same:lol:

[scartissue]

Although Loughran had deceptive power, I don't see him denting Foster. Also I don't see Foster taking out Loughran as Tommy had an excellent chin and the style to get himself out of trouble in case plan A failed. I'm leaning towards it coming down to the jabs and Foster taking it over 12.

Scartissue

[GPater11093]

for 12 rounds Loughran plays a matador, darting in and out of Fosters range with a whipping left hand landing on Bob Fosters face (albeit lightly) before skip[ping out of range and getting away. When he does get cornered Tommy just cooly ties up or spins away.

Foster does start to come on in the mid rounds but Tommys mixture of experiance, chin and ring generalship lets him just edge it.

Loughran SD

[Flea Man]

Loughran, whilst super tough and (for his time) somewhat of a 'Matador', would be hard pressed to beat Foster imo.

Foster, like Loughran, had a very good jab, but it's the increased snap and what comes behind it that's the difference here. Loughrans feints and quick foot movement to get out of range would degrade as the fight goes on IMO, as he doesn't have the firepower to keep Foster throwing shots.

A heavy left hook has Loughran reeling late on but he's far too smart to get caught with any of Fosters follow-up shots. Loughran goes down on points 7-5, in a fight where Foster has to make some mid-fight adjustements and try his damndest to get his punches home. Loughran will frustrate Foster at times and this won't be a particularly great fight for 'action' imo. It will be enjoyable for its tactical shifts however.

[janitor]

I would put my money on Loughran because he outboxed and even outfought tall rangy power punchers at light heavyweight.

Loughran was a feather fisted fighter who rarely lost a scrap. IOf you were a banger and he wasn't he would outpoint you in a brawl and not care if he was outpointing a guy with a machete with a fruit knife.

[GPater11093]

Fleaman but you hate all pre WW2 fighters

[Flea Man]

Fleaman but you hate all pre WW2 fighters

Don't hate. And pre-war is pretty harsh as Louis fought before the war.

It's no secret I don't rate the chances of a Fitz against most 'modern' fghters, but of guys I have seen decent amounts of footage of (such as Loughran) it's clear to see their style would make them awkward for 'modern' Boxers. I also picked Carpentier over Tarver, so I'm not as much of a 'hater' as you may describe.

But I'm not with the crowd that thinks Langford could K.O Lennox Lewis, put it that way:good

[GPater11093]

Don't hate. And pre-war is pretty harsh as Louis fought before the war.

It's no secret I don't rate the chances of a Fitz against most 'modern' fghters, but of guys I have seen decent amounts of footage of (such as Loughran) it's clear to see their style would make them awkward for 'modern' Boxers. I also picked Carpentier over Tarver, so I'm not as much of a 'hater' as you may describe.

But I'm not with the crowd that thinks Langford could K.O Lennox Lewis, put it that way:good

im just kidding

[Flea Man]

Anyway lad there's plenty more fights that need your opinions:good get typing lol

[Duodenum]

Tommy famously decisioned a trio of heavyweight champions, while Foster was never able to break through at that weight. Could Bob have beaten the quick tiring and immature Mike Quarry over the 12 round distance without dropping him? Loughran was infinitely more accomplished and efficient, while Foster's trailing foot stayed in the bucket. (Of course nobody at any weight ever came close to putting Tommy's lights out like that.)

Bob did not have Jack Sharkey's speed, Max Baer's power, or Carnera's effective use of size and reach (at a time when Tommy was 34). The erratic and unpredictable Sharkey (not known for a particularly devastating punch) managed to surprise him with the best right hand he ever struck on film, but got taken in the rematch. The more rhythmic Foster wouldn't have the chance to catch Loughran off guard like that. The young Jimmy Braddock had advantages of height, reach and power, yet Loughran looked like he was shadowboxing when they met.

I agree with janitor that even with Foster's punch I'd put my money on Tommy. After 1925, he was as invincible a lightheavyweight as any cutie could be. (38-0, with 36 by decision, concluding with Braddock.) He was by then too much for fellow champions Latzo, Carpentier, Slattery, McTigue, Walker and others. As dominant as Bob was at LHW, his record of wins doesn't glitter with a multitude of names like these. At Loughran's LHW peak, he had far too much experience for Foster to cope with.

How many opponents with a noted jab was Foster able to beat with his own jab? Terrell? Ali? I'd like to see more examples of Bob's supporters making a case for a decision in his favor. When I look at Loughran/Walker and Loughran/Braddock, I just don't see how the slower and less mobile Foster could pull this off.

[Boilermaker]

I dont rate foster any where near as much as most people on here do. I can see no reason why Loughran wouldnt stay away from Fosters right hand, and i think that Loughran has more than proved he isnt going to fold the first time Fosters power lands. Like Duodenum, i also would like to see how Fosters fans see him winning the fight, but at this stage i feel confident that Loughran wins a lopsided decision.

[WhataRock]

I dont know what Im missing with Tommy.

I cant for the life of me see why this

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Is so noticeably better then this

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I dont even think Ill pick Foster here...Just think Tommy has the right combination of toughness and slickness for the power of Foster to have as much as an impact as usual ..but I really struggle to picture how the shorter Loughran is going win lopsided over a highly effective and powerful fighter from range...this aint the cumbersome and sloppy (relative to Foster) Primo Carnera here..or a 5'9 middleweight Walker..

Ill make the call...a 175 pound Foster is a harder, more dangerous puncher then Jack Sharkey.

As much as Tommy will give Bob the fits...I cant really see from the evidence how Bob wont do the same, at least enough for the fight to be bloody hard to Tommy.

Call my eye untrained but thats just the way I see it.

[Duodenum]

I really struggle to picture how the shorter Loughran is going win lopsided over a highly effective and powerful fighter from range...Well, again, that's exactly what he did to Max Baer and Jimmy Braddock. Maxie would have killed Foster, and Bob never defeated a heavyweight of Braddock's caliber. (Foster would have also had to decision the version of Jimmy that Loughran schooled. Only a peaking Louis could cleanly knock out a fading and arthritic Braddock.)I'll make the call...a 175 pound Foster is a harder, more dangerous puncher then Jack Sharkey.This is clearly true on a consistent basis, but Sharkey's unpredictable speed and abrupt rush forward was the key to his success in nailing Tommy, who I think would have little difficulty timing Foster. (It bears repeating that Sharkey really caught lightning in a bottle, something Steve Hamas later did as well. Loughran avenged himself against Hamas twice before he returned the favor to Sharkey.) Jack's sudden charging knockdowns of Loughran and Carnera (especially Carnera) can seem to be wildly out of context, uncontrolled and spontaneous bursts of fire. Foster was more inclined to play chess, patiently biding his time in getting set for the right opening, not a good idea with Loughran.As much as Tommy will give Bob the fits...I cant really see from the evidence how Bob wont do the same, at least enough for the fight to be bloody hard to Tommy.Foster might start off trying to box with Loughran, but I think he'd quickly become frustrated and start looking to land bombs like Baer tried. Again, Tommy was able to play with the top big boys, something Bob couldn't do with Doug Jones and Terrell.Call my eye untrained but thats just the way I see it.Hey, thanks for the feedback.

As a 27 year old lightheavyweight champion against Braddock, Loughran was not only far more experienced than Foster ever became, but he was over three years younger than Bob was when he knocked out Tiger for that title. He would always have that minimum advantage in youth if they were to meet at 175.

[WhataRock]

Compelling points..and as I said I dont think Ill go with Foster for some of those reasons, especially how Tommy dealt with bigger men., I just dont really see this as cut and dry just yet.

Whats your feelings on the overall relevance of the Baer fight Duodem?

Was Baer perhaps pre-prime? Have you seen that fight or know how comprehensive a victory that was for Tommy?

Ill make another call that Bob Foster at 175 > Max Baer at heavy. Now I really dont know how much the p4p issue comes into play here, of course something but maybe the extra weight meant less speed and mobility for Tommy to deal with..perhaps lending itself to his style more so.

I dont feel Tommy schooling Braddock means much here...What I was trying to get across is thats its not just the height...Its the height combined with the fact Foster was a high class operator and very powerful puncher.
Tommy doesnt just have to contend with a couple of inches of height...He has to contend with several other things aswell.

[WhataRock]

Also I thought his stoppages of Quarry and Tiger showed Bob could be quite explosive himself.

[mcvey]

Louhgran by dec Foster had pretty fast hands but slowish feet he dragged his trailing foot a bit ,like Norton,he would not catch Loughran ,who had 1. fast hands 2,a great jab.and 3. fast feet..This would be Foster v Pierre Fourie ,except Loughran was Fourie squared he wins on points.

[red cobra]

Tommy famously decisioned a trio of heavyweight champions, while Foster was never able to break through at that weight. Could Bob have beaten the quick tiring and immature Mike Quarry over the 12 round distance without dropping him? Loughran was infinitely more accomplished and efficient, while Foster's trailing foot stayed in the bucket. (Of course nobody at any weight ever came close to putting Tommy's lights out like that.)

Bob did not have Jack Sharkey's speed, Max Baer's power, or Carnera's effective use of size and reach (at a time when Tommy was 34). The erratic and unpredictable Sharkey (not known for a particularly devastating punch) managed to surprise him with the best right hand he ever struck on film, but got taken in the rematch. The more rhythmic Foster wouldn't have the chance to catch Loughran off guard like that. The young Jimmy Braddock had advantages of height, reach and power, yet Loughran looked like he was shadowboxing when they met.

I agree with janitor that even with Foster's punch I'd put my money on Tommy. After 1925, he was as invincible a lightheavyweight as any cutie could be. (38-0, with 36 by decision, concluding with Braddock.) He was by then too much for fellow champions Latzo, Carpentier, Slattery, McTigue, Walker and others. As dominant as Bob was at LHW, his record of wins doesn't glitter with a multitude of names like these. At Loughran's LHW peak, he had far too much experience for Foster to cope with.

How many opponents with a noted jab was Foster able to beat with his own jab? Terrell? Ali? I'd like to see more examples of Bob's supporters making a case for a decision in his favor. When I look at Loughran/Walker and Loughran/Braddock, I just don't see how the slower and less mobile Foster could pull this off.
Beautifully put Duodenum...that's what I was going to say (lol)...why I picked Loughran over a guy I have profound respect for in Foster...I've always seen Loughran as the winner between these two.

[red cobra]

Also I thought his stoppages of Quarry and Tiger showed Bob could be quite explosive himself.
Foster WAS quite explosive...and his execution of Vincente Rondon seemed more like a horror flick than a fight..."The Attack of the 6'-3" Killer Praying Mantis Lightheavyweight Champion from Mars"...Rondon was backing up terrified..like a man approaching the guillitine..and Foster destroyed him of course. Foster would have decapitated Roy Jones, and if you think Hopkins was negative vs Calzaghe...well he would have been a virtual no-show against Bob Foster...on and on down the list...Foster would have one lightheavy champ after another, with the exception of a mere handful..and Loughran was one of the exceptions..and only a few other "purist" boxer types with chins would have been able to beat "The Praying Mantis" that was Foster.

[WhataRock]

You reckon Tommy takes out guys like Charles, Spinks or Moore r-cob?

Or should I wait till later in tourney for that answer. :D

[red cobra]

You reckon Tommy takes out guys like Charles, Spinks or Moore r-cob?

Or should I wait till later in tourney for that answer. :D
I think he has a shot at all three..however Charles may have been the exception here.

[Flea Man]

Let's not forget as well that Foster was good at getting past jabs. The Qurry and Finnegan fighs are a good example of this, opponents trying to keep Foster at bay with their jabs but his own often lands first and you have either hand coming behind it. He can also throw a left hook around the jab expertly. He has fairly fast hands and his own jab is superb.

Then again, as others have noted Loughran beat bigger guys. However I would say Foster has a clear edge in technique on Max Baer, I think his power and delivery would trouble Loughran even more.

This one is hotting up :good

[Flea Man]

To keep it going :good

Foster

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Loughran

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:good

[Mr Butt]

dont see either fighter hurting the other enough to gain an advantage through power i think it may well come down to who can gain an advantage with the jab. note voting yet as not sure and want find more out about loughran as know a lot more about foster

[Duodenum]

Whats your feelings on the overall relevance of the Baer fight Duodenum?

Was Baer perhaps pre-prime? Have you seen that fight or know how comprehensive a victory that was for Tommy?We know that Baer told Dempsey over breakfast the next morning that Loughran's jabbing haunted his sleep that night. Afterwards, Tommy tipped Max off that he was telegraphing his punches, directly resulting in this outcome being very arguably the final pre-prime performance of Baer's career. As dedicated as Max was until Campbell, he was less likely to win the title (or even earning a title shot) telegraphing like Loughran told him he had been.I'll make another call that Bob Foster at 175 > Max Baer at heavy. Now I really dont know how much the p4p issue comes into play here, of course something but maybe the extra weight meant less speed and mobility for Tommy to deal with..perhaps lending itself to his style more so.Bob had faster hands, and much better skills than Baer, but he was not a small, mobile and elusive target, or particularly durable when facing world class heavyweights. As free swinging as Baer was, I'm not convinced the spindly Foster could have kept out of trouble for long. Even if he did manage to somehow avoid Max's artillery to the head, what would happen when Baer went to his body?I don't feel Tommy schooling Braddock means much here...What I was trying to get across is thats its not just the height...Its the height combined with the fact Foster was a high class operator and very powerful puncher.I debated this myself, but went along with it because of Braddock's youth and own credibility as a decent puncher, as well as the fact that this was Tommy's final peak performance at 175. Jimmy later had some good moments with Louis, but got completely dominated by Loughran on film. (Braddock did have better mobility than Foster, though I'm aware of very few who would argue Jimmy was in Bob's league aside from having superior toughness, an advantage of no great benefit against Tommy.)Tommy doesnt just have to contend with a couple of inches of height...He has to contend with several other things aswell.Which is what's making this a compelling thread.

There's no disputing Tommy's intelligence (or utter fearlessness), but I have some serious questions about how Bob tried to deal with Frazier. (The only time I see him move laterally with speed and grace is when he's briefly celebrating his stoppage of Rondon.) Obviously, he could punch sharply with either hand, actually managing to draw blood on Ali, but Muhammad was simply steamrolling him, not practicing evasion so much as punching him out.

Foster's lagging footwork would mean few opportunities to pull the trigger on Loughran, keeping his big guns largely silent. At least Frazier and Ali gave Bob some chances to try teeing off.

Tommy stood up to heavyweights wearing six ounce gloves, something to think about when contemplating his stoppage defeats to Hamas and Sharkey. Eight ounce gloves would give Loughran an even bigger advantage over Foster, if that's what was used.

My first suggestion to anybody who has yet to watch footage of either peak Loughran or Foster would be to compare their footwork. Bob wouldn't have a stationary target to aim at. Again, I'd like to see more cases made for Foster winning a decision in this situation.

[teeto]

Strange i thought i'd picked already.

I'm taking Loughran, i think he's one of the very few with a chance against the head to head monster that is Bob Foster at 175 pounds. Loughran is a bit of a matador and likes an aggressor, and while Foster can move laterally he likes to use his strength and fight more at this weight. Loughran

[GPater11093]

I just watched some footage of Loughran sparring Dempsey and honestly its bueatiful

[ChrisPontius]

One note on the footage: You're seeing a highlight reel of one, compared to a normal fight of one. That's a horrible comparison. You could make Ali look like a better puncher than Tyson if you showed a highlight reel of him compared to a random full Tyson fight.

[TheGreatA]

One note on the footage: You're seeing a highlight reel of one, compared to a normal fight of one. That's a horrible comparison. You could make Ali look like a better puncher than Tyson if you showed a highlight reel of him compared to a random full Tyson fight.

Unfortunately there's not a whole lot of footage of Loughran but what's there is mostly impressive.

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The explosive knockout of Loughran by Sharkey shows that Foster does have a very good puncher's chance in this match-up but good points can also be made about the footwork of these two fighters. Loughran could run rings around him but I do wonder how he would be able to deal with that snappy jab of Foster's.

[Flea Man]

Unfortunately there's not a whole lot of footage of Loughran. But what's there is mostly impressive.

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The explosive knockout of Loughran by Sharkey in my opinion shows that Foster does have a very good puncher's chance in this match-up but good points can also be made about the footwork of these two fighters. Loughran could run rings around him but I do wonder how he would be able to deal with that snappy jab of Foster's.

:good

I actually thought that by showing a small amount of Foster (based on the fact that I hope most people have actually seen him fight) and more of Loughran, would show people less familiar than Loughran more of what he was about. By showing the lovely jab and pure destructiveness of Foster and the all-around game of Loughran it's; DO YOUT HINK LOUGHRAN CAN DEAL WITH THIS KINDA" FIGHTER? Here's what he does, can he evade the situations we have seen Foster exploit?

[Duodenum]

One note on the footage: You're seeing a highlight reel of one, compared to a normal fight of one. That's a horrible comparison. You could make Ali look like a better puncher than Tyson if you showed a highlight reel of him compared to a random full Tyson fight.Which brings to mind the memory that Ali made Jimmy Young look like a better puncher than Mike Tyson in an exhibition a few years before their title match. (Ali probably could have made Rosenbloom look deadlier than Tyson.)

[WhataRock]

Bob had faster hands, and much better skills than Baer, but he was not a small, mobile and elusive target, or particularly durable when facing world class heavyweights. As free swinging as Baer was, I'm not convinced the spindly Foster could have kept out of trouble for long. Even if he did manage to somehow avoid Max's artillery to the head, what would happen when Baer went to his body?

I wasnt trying to argue that Foster beats Baer..I was questioning whether Tommy's ability and style would have seen him do better against the slower, less skilled Baer then with Foster.

Baer would very likely chop down Bob...but it has little relevance in this argument IMO.


There's no disputing Tommy's intelligence (or utter fearlessness), but I have some serious questions about how Bob tried to deal with Frazier. (The only time I see him move laterally with speed and grace is when he's briefly celebrating his stoppage of Rondon.) Obviously, he could punch sharply with either hand, actually managing to draw blood on Ali, but Muhammad was simply steamrolling him, not practicing evasion so much as punching him out.

Not sure what you are getting at there D.

I dont think Ali or Frazier have much relevance as their style and physical attributes obviously are very different to Loughran.

Therefore I dont see how Foster would approach Tommy like he did these guys.

Foster's lagging footwork would mean few opportunities to pull the trigger on Loughran, keeping his big guns largely silent. At least Frazier and Ali gave Bob some chances to try teeing off.

Tommy most definitely has Foster for foot speed...no doubt about that here. Not one of Bob's best attributes.

But he was a very good ring general...His long legs meant a few educated steps or shuffles would put him anywhere in the ring he wanted to be.
This combined with great timing quite often has been shown to be a foil for fleet footed and cagey fighters in the mould of Tommy.

I think the fact Bob wasnt particularly fast of foot doesnt mean he couldnt be effective applying the style he used..Slow and laggin can be spun into methodical and efficient depending on which way you looking at it.
I tend to think that its probably a bit of both..whilst perhaps being a constaint of Bob's, its something that he still made work for him.

I also think Bob's torso movement has to be looked at here for this fight. He wasnt just a straight up fighter and had a few tricks up his sleeve himself.
He could maximise the reach of his punches with a slight lean forward and put a few more inches of distance between his head and his opponants fist with a subtle lean backwards.
This is defo going to give Tommy something more to think about.


My first suggestion to anybody who has yet to watch footage of either peak Loughran or Foster would be to compare their footwork. Bob wouldn't have a stationary target to aim at. Again, I'd like to see more cases made for Foster winning a decision in this situation.

As I said before its not like we are talking about two guys who are stylistic clones..Just because Tommy does one think better doesnt mean he automatically has Bob's number. They do things differently and I think as much as Tommy's movement with give Bob the fits, Bob's ring generalship is going to make this very interesting.

I dont believe Bob would try to outmanourve Tommy and thus I dont think just because Tommy is superior in this regard means its all one way traffic. As Bob I dont feel will be looking to outdo him with his footspeed here, he will try to outdo him with the advantages he has.

And Bob has beaten guys who werent always stationary..Once they felt his power many guys got on their bike, not as effectively as Tommy could of course but the lateral movement Quarry was using was pretty constant for instance.

[cotto20]

Foster stood at 6''3, with a 78-inch reach, Foster had size advantges over all his LHW Opponents, and facing Loughran would be no different.

Foster's had a long, hard, accurate Jab. One of the finest ever, and he had scary paralyzing power in his left hook and had a great right cross to.

Although his competition faced at LHW wasn't the strongest ever, he held onto the Title for 6 years and made 14 defences. Of his 56 wins, 46 came by KO. You cound't ask for much more from him.

And people tend to forget that Foster was also a fine defensive boxer, whose record against quick moving, elusive men was exemplary-Mark Tessman, Mike Quarry, and Chris Finegan were all knocked out, while Foster out pointed Ray Anderson and Pierre Fourie twice.

Watching Tommy Loughran on film is dazziling. He was a master boxer, held a perfect stance, was extremely quick on his feet and possessed excellent ring savy and ring craft.

His left Jab could be the best ever, sharp, accurate and crisp. Loughrans resume speaks for it's self. Wins over the likes of Harry Greb, Micky Walker, Georges Carpentier, Jim Braddock to name a few.

Fosters weakness's wouldn't play into Tommy's hands a great deal. Foster's chin had a question mark over it, but at LHW was pretty sound.

And Tommy wasnt a huge puncher. I could imagine Loughran would use his speed and footwork to pick up the points in the early rounds, while dancing out of trouble. Although Foster is landing his fare share, and I wound't count out Foster hurting Loughran along the way, altough Loughran was tough but never had a iron chin.

I could see this fight going two ways, after being outboxed for periods, Foster lands a left hook on Tommy's jaw which puts him out for the 10 count.

The other being Loughran using his speed, footwork, and dancing out of trouble and coming though some sticky patches to gain a decision.

Don't ask me to pick which one.......:good

[Flea Man]

Foster stood at 6''3, with a 78-inch reach, Foster had size advantges over all his LHW Opponents, and facing Loughran would be no different.

Foster's had a long, hard, accurate Jab. One of the finest ever, and he had scary paralyzing power in his left hook and had a great right cross to.

Although his competition faced at LHW wasn't the strongest ever, he held onto the Title for 6 years and made 14 defences. Of his 56 wins, 46 came by KO. You cound't ask for much more from him.

And people tend to forget that Foster was also a fine defensive boxer, whose record against quick moving, elusive men was exemplary-Mark Tessman, Mike Quarry, and Chris Finegan were all knocked out, while Foster out pointed Ray Anderson and Pierre Fourie twice.

Watching Tommy Loughran on film is dazziling. He was a master boxer, held a perfect stance, was extremely quick on his feet and possessed excellent ring savy and ring craft.

His left Jab could be the best ever, sharp, accurate and crisp. Loughrans resume speaks for it's self. Wins over the likes of Harry Greb, Micky Walker, Georges Carpentier, Jim Braddock to name a few.

Fosters weakness's wouldn't play into Tommy's hands a great deal. Foster's chin had a question mark over it, but at LHW was pretty sound.

And Tommy wasnt a huge puncher. I could imagine Loughran would use his speed and footwork to pick up the points in the early rounds, while dancing out of trouble. Although Foster is landing his fare share, and I wound't count out Foster hurting Loughran along the way, altough Loughran was tough but never had a iron chin.

I could see this fight going two ways, after being outboxed for periods, Foster lands a left hook on Tommy's jaw which puts him out for the 10 count.

The other being Loughran using his speed, footwork, and dancing out of trouble and coming though some sticky patches to gain a decision.

Don't ask me to pick which one.......:good

You gotta make a pick:lol::good:happy

[cotto20]

You gotta make a pick:lol::good:happy

Is my vote that important?.........:D

[WhataRock]

Still dont think the Fourie fights are fair on Bob for evidence in H2H matchups. He was getting on and it was after his last foray into the heavyweight division which ended brutally for him.

Pierre even said that Bob's age would work against him for their fight and his trainer said that his age combined with the layoff he had after the Ali fight meant he was ripe for the picking.

[mcvey]

How about the Ray Anderson fight then?
Or ,to a lesser extent,Mark Tessman?

[Flea Man]

Is my vote that important?.........:D

Yep:deal

[WhataRock]

How about the Ray Anderson fight then?
Or ,to a lesser extent,Mark Tessman?


They probably be better examples.

Ive only seen highlights of the Anderson fight and he looked to be well and truly in survival mode though.

Tommy wasnt afraid to mix it up...probably gives Bob a better shot at doing his thing.

[Duodenum]

I wasnt trying to argue that Foster beats Baer..I was questioning whether Tommy's ability and style would have seen him do better against the slower, less skilled Baer then with Foster.Bob was a sharper puncher with better skill, so he would have been able to make Loughran box with greater caution.Baer would very likely chop down Bob...but it has little relevance in this argument IMO.True. My thought processes are a little tenuous from fatigue at the moment.Not sure what you are getting at there D.Again, my apologies for poor articulation. I simply don't think that Bob would be able to match Tommy's ring smarts.I dont think Ali or Frazier have much relevance as their style and physical attributes obviously are very different to Loughran.

Therefore I dont see how Foster would approach Tommy like he did these guys.Especially with respect to Frazier, I don't think Bob used a very good strategy. (Then again, he didn't belong in the ring with Joe at all.) Or was it just a matter of Foster simply not being able to change his approach regardless of the situation? Bob couldn't maintain effective use of his height and reach advantage, couldn't tie Joe up, and couldn't get away from him when in trouble. (Loughran was proficient at clinching, something that would be very useful with Foster. Jab, clinch, jab, clinch.) Loughran would never have Foster in trouble, of course, but if Bob's height and reach meant little against Frazier, then it might be chancy to assume it would be of any great advantage with Tommy. (As good as Frazier was, Bob should have been able to survive a few more rounds if he'd been smarter.)Tommy most definitely has Foster for foot speed...no doubt about that here. Not one of Bob's best attributes.

But he was a very good ring general...His long legs meant a few educated steps or shuffles would put him anywhere in the ring he wanted to be.
This combined with great timing quite often has been shown to be a foil for fleet footed and cagey fighters in the mould of Tommy.

I think the fact Bob wasnt particularly fast of foot doesnt mean he couldnt be effective applying the style he used..Slow and laggin can be spun into methodical and efficient depending on which way you looking at it.
I tend to think that its probably a bit of both..whilst perhaps being a constaint of Bob's, its something that he still made work for him.

I also think Bob's torso movement has to be looked at here for this fight. He wasnt just a straight up fighter and had a few tricks up his sleeve himself.
He could maximise the reach of his punches with a slight lean forward and put a few more inches of distance between his head and his opponants fist with a subtle lean backwards.
This is defo going to give Tommy something more to think about.




As I said before its not like we are talking about two guys who are stylistic clones..Just because Tommy does one think better doesnt mean he automatically has Bob's number. They do things differently and I think as much as Tommy's movement with give Bob the fits, Bob's ring generalship is going to make this very interesting.Ring generalship is an area where I don't think Foster would be able to compete. The more I look at Loughran's resume, particularly of wins, the more anemic Bob's appears to be.I dont believe Bob would try to outmaneuver Tommy and thus I dont think just because Tommy is superior in this regard means its all one way traffic. As Bob I dont feel will be looking to outdo him with his footspeed here, he will try to outdo him with the advantages he has.

And Bob has beaten guys who werent always stationary..Once they felt his power many guys got on their bike, not as effectively as Tommy could of course but the lateral movement Quarry was using was pretty constant for instance.If I was in Foster's corner for Loughran, I'd obviously be counseling him to try hammering the hook to Tommy's body. (It's worth remembering than Loughran himself was competent at scoring points downstairs, so Bob would need to protect his own body effectively, something he had to do well to have the successful career he had.)

When I'm more alert and thinking more clearly, I may try to return to this. (The quality of my last few posts has fallen off alarmingly. I need some rest.)

[WhataRock]

Cheers for the reply Duodenum.

After all that Ill go with Tommy by close, perhaps controversial decision.

I honestly believe if they fought 10 times it would be just about 5 a piece...with Bob even getting a stoppage at least once.

But for the reasons that have been gone over ad nauseam in this thread Id go for Tommy on SD...He is to quick and tricky for Bob to set himself consistently but Bob is to rangey and good himself for Tommy to really have his way.

[Bummy Davis]

Foster was a beast of a puncher and could box pretty well when he was chasing an opponent. Remember this guy KO"D Vincente Rondon and Heavyweight"Legend" Earnie Shvers went 10 with Vincente Rondon. He also KO'd a lot of lightheavys with both the right and left hook. Still the pick of the draw was a tough one for him Tommy was a rugged boxer with fast hands and feet. Closer fight I think a squeeker with Loughran taking it home SD 15

[Mr Butt]

loughran takes a jabbing fight with neither fighter able to hurt the other loughran's better footwork help him win the battle of the jab's

[Flea Man]

bump