Does Pacquiao Beating MAB Again Move Automatically Him Up P4P?

[Marc]

Regardless if he does it in devastating fashion.

Nigel Collins says yes, but in my book, no.

Pac already dismantled a fresher MAB back in 2003. He rematches a shopworn Barrera whose last impressive fight was against a clubfighter named Fana. He also lost his last fight to JMM. He is clearly not what he used to be.

Beating MAB is already par for the course. It is what's expected. Not the same can be said in the Mayweather-Hatton fight.

If he puts closure on the fight with Marquez and totally clean out 130 lb., only then will I really consider putting him at #1.

[ChampionsForever]

You wern't impressed with the Marquez fight??:huh

[brooklyn1550]

I don't think so...he stays at number 2 in my book

[Rickypr18]

The same is expected for the Mayweather-Hatton fight... Whoever does not think Mayweather is expected to win is living in another world.

[Rickypr18]

And no, he doesnt move to #1. He needs to beat Marquez decisively to be P4P #1 and Mayweather has to lose a fight to lose the #1 spot.

[Marc]

.

[BewareofDawg]

No.

[kg0208]

No

[Marc]

You wern't impressed with the Marquez fight??:huh

Why would I? He was getting beat around in some spots. He wasn't as sharp as he used to be. AND HE LOST.

[Marc]

He's already #2 in RING's p4p rankings and in mine. Even a particularly devastating performance against MAB wouldn't catapult him to #1 IMO. Floyd would first have to lose for that to happen.

That is the problem, the RING's rankings. Nigel Collins (RING editor) has stated that if Pac wins in devastating fashion, and if Floyd scapes past Hatton, he should move up to #1.

[Marc]

The same is expected for the Mayweather-Hatton fight... Whoever does not think Mayweather is expected to win is living in another world.

Both results are the consensus but there is no doubt it is by far easier to predict a Pacquiao victory than a Floyd landslide.

[Marc]

.

[kg0208]

No. Beating MAB who is coming off a loss and already lost to Pacman will not move him up, and if it does, it shouldn't. Not unless PBF loses.

Love him or hate him, PBF fighting Hatton, a prime unbeaten lineal champion is better than fighting MAB at this stage in his career. A win over Hatton no matter how close (unless it's controversial) is better.

[ripcity]

Barrera is going to win so it won't be an isue.

[TheGoldenBoy#1]

deffo not. If mayweather was fighting total scrubs and refusing to take on a dangerous opponent time and time again and pacman cleaned out the top guys in the same time period then maybe.

[Quik]

If he beats MAB and Marquez, for me, he would still be No 2 but really close to Mayweather. If he could capture a title at 135 (againts anyone), then he would be no1 for sure and floyd would have to clean 147 and 154 to get his no 1 spot back.

[Marc]

If he beats MAB and Marquez, for me, he would still be No 2 but really close to Mayweather. If he could capture a title at 135 (againts anyone), then he would be no1 for sure and floyd would have to clean 147 and 154 to get his no 1 spot back.

Even against David Diaz?:huh

[standing 8]

No, but that probably still won't stop some of the Mayweather detractors from ranking Pacman above Floyd anyway.

[achillesthegreat]

Undoubtedly. MAB came back from the loss and is STILL a P4P fighter. It is a NEW weight class at which Barrera is PROVEN, more so than PAC.

This is a QUALITY P4P win.

[LeedsLad]

Mayweather has the better resume, and also a massive advantage H2H. Until Floyd loses, nobody goes above him.

[kg0208]

Undoubtedly. MAB came back from the loss and is STILL a P4P fighter. It is a NEW weight class at which Barrera is PROVEN, more so than PAC.

This is a QUALITY P4P win.
What are you talking about? A new weight class in which MAB is more proven than Pacman?

They both have had 6 fights at this weight class. Both have had one loss at this weight class and wins over Morales at this weight class. Perhaps you are referring to MAB's better resume there, but Pacman certainly has proven he belongs at that weight class, and it's not new for him.

You think beating a faded MAB is better than beating Hatton?

[Lance_Uppercut]

Collincs said conceivebly if I remember. That's not an automatic yes.

[enzo]

I voted yes that is if hatton would beat PBF...

[achillesthegreat]

What are you talking about? A new weight class in which MAB is more proven than Pacman?

They both have had 6 fights at this weight class. Both have had one loss at this weight class and wins over Morales at this weight class.

You think beating a faded MAB is better than beating Hatton?
MAB beat Morales before PAC did. When PAC beat Morales, many would argue Morales was shot. MAB beat him when he was a solid underdog.

MAB is the WBC and IBF champ, PAC isn't a champ.

MAB does have a loss to JMM but it was close and PAC has a loss to Morales. PAC has beaten a small Larios and MAB has blitzed an undefeated mandatory.

This is a quality P4P win for PAC.

If the argument is PAC being ranked above Floyd if they both win then no. That is a ridiculous argument. Hatton is P4P higher than MAB and is the best 140 pounder in the world and a former champ from 147.

[Marc]

Collincs said conceivebly if I remember. That's not an automatic yes.

He is heavily suggesting doing that, if his scenario of a devastating Pac KO/close Floyd win comes true.

[kg0208]

MAB beat Morales before PAC did. When PAC beat Morales, many would argue Morales was shot. MAB beat him when he was a solid underdog.

MAB is the WBC and IBF champ, PAC isn't a champ.

MAB does have a loss to JMM but it was close and PAC has a loss to Morales. PAC has beaten a small Larios and MAB has blitzed an undefeated mandatory.

This is a quality P4P win for PAC.

If the argument is PAC being ranked above Floyd if they both win then no. That is a ridiculous argument. Hatton is P4P higher than MAB and is the best 140 pounder in the world and a former champ from 147.
MAB beat Morales before Pacman did, but Pacman beat him more times. Morales was not the same fighter that he was for the 2nd MAB fight and hasn't been the same fighter for a while now. Neither has MAB, who has adapted better than Morales has to his aging.

MAB is not a champion, JMM took his belts. Pacman is rated #1 by Ring.

MAB has not fought a single unbeaten fighter at 130, and struggled against Juarez. Pacman has fought smaller opposition.

I think this is an OK win for Pacman, but not a P4P win but to each their own. This is NOT a new division for Pacman as you stated earlier though, unless you mean new as in different from the division in which their last fight took place.

The argument IS that Pacman would become #1 if he beats MAB convincingly and PBF doesn't blow out Hatton and wins a close decision.

[achillesthegreat]

MAB beat Morales before Pacman did, but Pacman beat him more times. Morales was not the same fighter that he was for the 2nd MAB fight and hasn't been the same fighter for a while now. Neither has MAB, who has adapted better than Morales has to his aging.

MAB is not a champion, JMM took his belts. Pacman is rated #1 by Ring.

MAB has not fought a single unbeaten fighter at 130, and struggled against Juarez. Pacman has fought smaller opposition.

I think this is an OK win for Pacman, but not a P4P win but to each their own. This is NOT a new division for Pacman as you stated earlier though, unless you mean new as in different from the division in which their last fight took place.

The argument IS that Pacman would become #1 if he beats MAB convincingly and PBF doesn't blow out Hatton and wins a close decision.
So if Ibragimov beats Holyfield three times does that make his wins better than Lewis?

True, MAB is no longer the champ but he won two belts.

It doesn't matter if MAB struggled with Juarez. He beat a young fighter twice and dominated him the second time.

You're right Fana wasn't undefeated. Still his mandatory. My mistake.

PAC would NOT be ranked above Floyd, that is a pathetic argument. He would DEFINITELY be moved up the P4P charts. This is a quality win.

Saddler smashed Pep the first but got whooped in the rematch. A dominating first win doesn't ALWAYS mean you win the rematch.

MAB is a top P4P fighter, beating him is a top P4P win, it is simple.

[standing 8]

MAB beat Morales before Pacman did, but Pacman beat him more times. Morales was not the same fighter that he was for the 2nd MAB fight and hasn't been the same fighter for a while now. Neither has MAB, who has adapted better than Morales has to his aging.

MAB is not a champion, JMM took his belts. Pacman is rated #1 by Ring.

MAB has not fought a single unbeaten fighter at 130, and struggled against Juarez. Pacman has fought smaller opposition.

I think this is an OK win for Pacman, but not a P4P win but to each their own. This is NOT a new division for Pacman as you stated earlier though, unless you mean new as in different from the division in which their last fight took place.

The argument IS that Pacman would become #1 if he beats MAB convincingly and PBF doesn't blow out Hatton and wins a close decision.

I still wouldn't rank Pacman over Mayweather in that senario as Pacquiao has already beaten MAB.

[kg0208]

So if Ibragimov beats Holyfield three times does that make his wins better than Lewis?

True, MAB is no longer the champ but he won two belts.

It doesn't matter if MAB struggled with Juarez. He beat a young fighter twice and dominated him the second time.

You're right Fana wasn't undefeated. Still his mandatory. My mistake.

PAC would NOT be ranked above Floyd, that is a pathetic argument. He would DEFINITELY be moved up the P4P charts. This is a quality win.

Saddler smashed Pep the first but got whooped in the rematch. A dominating first win doesn't ALWAYS mean you win the rematch.

MAB is a top P4P fighter, beating him is a top P4P win, it is simple.
MAB is no longer a top P4P fighter. There are other fighters who have surpassed him at this stage. He is still a good fighter, but he isn't top 10, and I don't have him Top 15. He isn't what he was.

I answered what you said. I don't care if MAB HAD the belts, he doesn't have them now. And Pacman being rated #1 is just as signifigant. I only mentioned these things because you said this was a new division and MAB was more proven here than Pacman. They both have had 1 loss at 130, and neither is more proven than the other.

Lewis beat Holyfield a decade ago. Ibragimov fighting him now is not the same. Pacman fought Morales directly after MAB fought him, those are not valid comparisons.

I have not posed the argument that Pacman would be rated over PBF. But that is what this thread is about. It stems from a couple of other threads started by Pacfans because of the what the Ring editor said. I also have not posed an argument that Pacman should automatically win this fight. I am saying if he DOES win, against someone he completely destroyed the first time, and someone who isn't as good as he was when Pacman beat him then, he shouldn't move up. And how can he move up from #2 if #1 wins?

[kg0208]

I still wouldn't rank Pacman over Mayweather in that senario as Pacquiao has already beaten MAB.

Obviously. Pacman needs PBF to lose or fight an absolute nobody.

[Marc]

Achilles, what I meant to ask was, should Pac be p4p above Floyd given the Collins scenario.

[Carlos Primera]

if floyd loses then yes. mab was still very competitive against marquez, that should'ne take any credit away from pac if he does beat him.

[kg0208]

if floyd loses then yes. mab was still very competitive against marquez, that should'ne take any credit away from pac if he does beat him.

You know what, I don't mean to do that. All I mean to say is that Pacman gains little from this win. He doesn't lose anything and nothing should be taken away from him for beating a pretty good fighter. But MAB is not what he was, and IMO, not a top P4P guy anymore. This win shouldn't move him up any if PBF wins, no matter how he does it (unless PBF clearly loses and they rob Hatton)

[Carlos Primera]

You know what, I don't mean to do that. All I mean to say is that Pacman gains little from this win. He doesn't lose anything and nothing should be taken away from him for beating a pretty good fighter. But MAB is not what he was, and IMO, not a top P4P guy anymore. This win shouldn't move him up any if PBF wins, no matter how he does it (unless PBF clearly loses and they rob Hatton)
i agree. without the scenario of floyd losing, i feel a win over mab is not enough to warrant a move up the p4p rankings. he's beaten him before in devastating fashion, if he wins against him now it just proves what we've known all along. on the other hand if floyd does loses against hatton, then pac becomes no.1 akin to hopkins ascent back in 04.

[PacDbest]

i agree. without the scenario of floyd losing, i feel a win over mab is not enough to warrant a move up the p4p rankings. he's beaten him before in devastating fashion, if he wins against him now it just proves what we've known all along. on the other hand if floyd does loses against hatton, then pac becomes no.1 akin to hopkins ascent back in 04.

The thing is Nigel Collins said He's ready to Crown Pac if Floyd bore us again. The Ring recognize also that they sell more copies if Pac was on the Cover.

[kg0208]

The thing is Nigel Collins said He's ready to Crown Pac if Floyd bore us again. The Ring recognize also that they sell more copies if Pac was on the Cover.

If Ring is worried about selling copies then they have lost their integrity. The rankings are about who is the best, not the most exciting. If PBF can box Hatton and beat him clearly, I don't care how boring it is, he should remain #1.

[achillesthegreat]

MAB is no longer a top P4P fighter. There are other fighters who have surpassed him at this stage. He is still a good fighter, but he isn't top 10, and I don't have him Top 15. He isn't what he was.

I answered what you said. I don't care if MAB HAD the belts, he doesn't have them now. And Pacman being rated #1 is just as signifigant. I only mentioned these things because you said this was a new division and MAB was more proven here than Pacman. They both have had 1 loss at 130, and neither is more proven than the other.

Lewis beat Holyfield a decade ago. Ibragimov fighting him now is not the same. Pacman fought Morales directly after MAB fought him, those are not valid comparisons.

I have not posed the argument that Pacman would be rated over PBF. But that is what this thread is about. It stems from a couple of other threads started by Pacfans because of the what the Ring editor said. I also have not posed an argument that Pacman should automatically win this fight. I am saying if he DOES win, against someone he completely destroyed the first time, and someone who isn't as good as he was when Pacman beat him then, he shouldn't move up. And how can he move up from #2 if #1 wins?
You are being ridiculous. MAB broke back into the top 10 when he beat Morales. He has been doing top things ever since i.e. beating IBF champ, fighting mandatory, avenging a close fight...

...losing a RAZOR THIN fight to JMM does not hurt his standing.

Outside of their loss at 130 MAB has done quality work. Being the WBC and IBF champ, even former, while beating Morales (the consensus no1) in his first fight tips it. The loss to JMM is highly disputed, PACs to Morales is not. It depends how you look at them but their ranking doesn't matter. This is a QUALITY win.

PAC did fight Morales after MAB and he lost to him. It is after that where many believe Morales to be shot.

I agree that PAC being ranked over Floyd is moronic.

[achillesthegreat]

Achilles, what I meant to ask was, should Pac be p4p above Floyd given the Collins scenario.
Sorry, I had not taken into consideration other threads and comments. I don't usually get involved with the stupid fanboy shit.

If PAC and Floyd win, PAC remains his P4P bitch.

[Marnoff]

No.

[Marnoff]

It's funny because Mayweather would get criticized for fighting someone he already dominated in a rematch. How about Pacquaio? Nope, lets praise him and give him top spot in the sport.

[Marnoff]

MAB is a top P4P fighter, beating him is a top P4P win, it is simple.

Not anymore....

[achillesthegreat]

Not anymore....
He is a top fighter - this is IRREFUTABLE.

[Marnoff]

If Ring is worried about selling copies then they have lost their integrity. The rankings are about who is the best, not the most exciting. If PBF can box Hatton and beat him clearly, I don't care how boring it is, he should remain #1.

No kidding.

[Marnoff]

He is a top fighter - this is IRREFUTABLE.

If you're talking top ten, then yes it is refutable. Very. Undeniably refutable.

[Marnoff]

If it is an impressive KO, I would say YES. Pac is now loaded w/ more arsenals to KO Barrera.

Why does the fact that Pacquaio hits hard and scores flashy KOs warrant him more credit than a master boxer who wins clear decisions?

[Marc]

He is a top fighter - this is IRREFUTABLE.

A top fighter but he belongs in the lower bowels of the top 10.

[puga_ni_nana]

Regardless if he does it in devastating fashion.

Nigel Collins says yes, but in my book, no.

Pac already dismantled a fresher MAB back in 2003. He rematches a shopworn Barrera whose last impressive fight was against a clubfighter named Fana. He also lost his last fight to JMM. He is clearly not what he used to be.

Beating MAB is already par for the course. It is what's expected. Not the same can be said in the Mayweather-Hatton fight.

If he puts closure on the fight with Marquez and totally clean out 130 lb., only then will I really consider putting him at #1.

i will put pac at #1 if pac beats mab in a devastating fashion (KO5 for example) and floyd winning against hatton in a SD type of fight just like against dela hoya.

[hmi]

If PBF gets a draw, a controversial decision or loses to Hatton and if Pacman wins, then Pac should become the #1 P4P. Other than that, the status quo remains.

[mad_takamura]

If Ring is worried about selling copies then they have lost their integrity. The rankings are about who is the best, not the most exciting. If PBF can box Hatton and beat him clearly, I don't care how boring it is, he should remain #1. closet pac-hater.:-(

[kg0208]

closet pac-hater.:-(
All you care about is Pacman, so it is not surprising that this would be your response. Either way, my statement stands and is certainly a more defendable position than you have previously stated.

[chimba]

If Ring is worried about selling copies then they have lost their integrity. The rankings are about who is the best, not the most exciting. If PBF can box Hatton and beat him clearly, I don't care how boring it is, he should remain #1.

Ho wbout a split lackluster decision for Floyd and a devastating KO for PAC. Would that make Pac #1?

[kg0208]

You are being ridiculous. MAB broke back into the top 10 when he beat Morales. He has been doing top things ever since i.e. beating IBF champ, fighting mandatory, avenging a close fight...

...losing a RAZOR THIN fight to JMM does not hurt his standing.

Outside of their loss at 130 MAB has done quality work. Being the WBC and IBF champ, even former, while beating Morales (the consensus no1) in his first fight tips it. The loss to JMM is highly disputed, PACs to Morales is not. It depends how you look at them but their ranking doesn't matter. This is a QUALITY win.

PAC did fight Morales after MAB and he lost to him. It is after that where many believe Morales to be shot.

I agree that PAC being ranked over Floyd is moronic.

Well I don't agree with you and could care less if you think I am being ridiculous. There are other fighters who haven't lost razor thin decisions and have shown a higher level of skill lately than MAB. Soto beat Juarez much easier than MAB, who is clearly not the same fighter he was. You can say it is irrefutable that he is a top P4P fighter, but since I am refuting it, at least in a top 15 sense of the word, it obviously isn't. Ring also doesn't have him in their standings. Any loss hurts....

[kg0208]

Ho wbout a split lackluster decision for Floyd and a devastating KO for PAC. Would that make Pac #1?

I don't believe that a fighter should drop from their standing without losing, especially when facing another P4P fighter. Unless it was a robbery.

[mad_takamura]

All you care about is Pacman, so it is not surprising that this would be your response. Either way, my statement stands and is certainly a more defendable position than you have previously stated.a flawed statement. it's not only pac that i like.
i like cotto, taylor, dawson, mijares, winky, b-hop to name others.. dig on my other posts about them so you would see.

[mad_takamura]

a flawed statement. it's not only pac that i like.
i like cotto, taylor, dawson, mijares, winky, b-hop to name others.. dig on my other posts about them so you would see. and i believe he will beat pavlik..

[Chert]

pac moves to #1 with a floyd loss to hatton and a KO win vs. mab.

or when pac wins vs. jmm coupled w/ an unimpressive (running and potshot) win by floyd against hatton.

[kg0208]

a flawed statement. it's not only pac that i like.
i like cotto, taylor, dawson, mijares, winky, b-hop to name others.. dig on my other posts about them so you would see.
Yes, I know you don't only care about Pacman. It was a flawed statement. As was yours about me. Rating Pacman #2 P4P doesn't make me a hater. Rating him where most fans who are not Pinoy doesn't make me a hater. Dig up my posts and you will see that I have defended Pacman (just did so earlier today when someone in this very thread said he was not as PROVEN as MAB at 130) as well. Actually, I rarely criticize Pacman....I do however criticize his fanbase. And not because they cheer him, they should. But often many will say derogatory things about other fighters to try and boost Pacmans standing in their discussion when opposition rises. Or they will rate him using a certain criteria, then that criteria disappears when it is pointed out that it makes another fighter better or makes Pacman look worse.

Do YOU rank fighters based on excitement or what the outcome of the fight is?

[PacDbest]

I don't believe that a fighter should drop from their standing without losing, especially when facing another P4P fighter. Unless it was a robbery.

How about the undefeated Jermain Taylor??? He was as high as #4 but now out of the top 10. He was demoted to the ranks because he is unimpressive. Pac overtakes Winky even thou winky never lost. This is because Pac was more impressive against elite fighter. Same thing with Hatton he went up up to top 5-6 but demoted for unimpressive fights with Collazo & Urango.

It's very Clear Floyd needs to win as impressive as Pac to keep his Place at the Top.

[chimba]

Yes, I know you don't only care about Pacman. It was a flawed statement. As was yours about me. Rating Pacman #2 P4P doesn't make me a hater. Rating him where most fans who are not Pinoy doesn't make me a hater. Dig up my posts and you will see that I have defended Pacman (just did so earlier today when someone in this very thread said he was not as PROVEN as MAB at 130) as well. Actually, I rarely criticize Pacman....I do however criticize his fanbase. And not because they cheer him, they should. But often many will say derogatory things about other fighters to try and boost Pacmans standing in their discussion when opposition rises.

Do YOU rank fighters based on excitement or what the outcome of the fight is?

I say Floyd #1 also..if both win their fights..

As a PAC fan..I wouldnt want the injustice of seing PAC become number 1 for any other reasons than demolishing all the contenders at 130. Only then can he surpass Floyd.

Now for Floyd to keep up..he also must defeat the top contenders of his weight class. remaining undefeated beating B levels and going to cut it...

so the answer is yes PBF can stay undefeated but can be unseated by a guy who has beaten better competition.

[kg0208]

How about the undefeated Jermain Taylor??? He was as high as #4 but now out of the top 10. He was demoted to the ranks because he is unimpressive. Pac overtakes Winky even thou winky never lost. This is because Pac was more impressive against elite fighter. Same thing with Hatton he went up up to top 5-6 but demoted for unimpressive fights with Collazo & Urango.

It's very Clear Floyd needs to win as impressive as Pac to keep his Place at the Top.
I said what I believed, not what Ring believes. I still have Taylor #5 in my p4p list. I didn't drop him. And I don't think his Spinks or Ouma fight were close.

Pacman didn't move ahead of Wright because he was more impressive in his wins, it's because he fought and beat better fighters. Wright had a draw with Taylor and beat an old Quartey.

In this case, Pacman is not fighting a better fighter than PBF is, so the Wright situation doesn't apply. And as I said, I don't drop fighters based on how exciting they are in the ring.

PBF is not a KO fighter, so a clear decision over a prime Hatton is better to me than a KO over a fighter we already know Pacman can KO who is not in his prime.

[kg0208]

I say Floyd #1 also..if both win their fights..

As a PAC fan..I wouldnt want the injustice of seing PAC become number 1 for any other reasons than demolishing all the contenders at 130. Only then can he surpass Floyd.

Now for Floyd to keep up..he also must defeat the top contenders of his weight class. remaining undefeated beating B levels and going to cut it...

so the answer is yes PBF can stay undefeated but can be unseated by a guy who has beaten better competition.

Yes if Pacman beats MAB then beats JMM and PBF beats Hatton then fights Rivera, then Pacman moves ahead.

[chimba]

Yes if Pacman beats MAB then beats JMM and PBF beats Hatton then fights Rivera, then Pacman moves ahead.

:deal

[PacDbest]

I say Floyd #1 also..if both win their fights..

As a PAC fan..I wouldnt want the injustice of seing PAC become number 1 for any other reasons than demolishing all the contenders at 130. Only then can he surpass Floyd.

Now for Floyd to keep up..he also must defeat the top contenders of his weight class. remaining undefeated beating B levels and going to cut it...

so the answer is yes PBF can stay undefeated but can be unseated by a guy who has beaten better competition.

Check my previous post. That one Nails the Coppin.

[chimba]

How about the undefeated Jermain Taylor??? He was as high as #4 but now out of the top 10. He was demoted to the ranks because he is unimpressive. Pac overtakes Winky even thou winky never lost. This is because Pac was more impressive against elite fighter. Same thing with Hatton he went up up to top 5-6 but demoted for unimpressive fights with Collazo & Urango.

It's very Clear Floyd needs to win as impressive as Pac to keep his Place at the Top.

Spot on Pare! but according to KG he never dropped taylor from "his" list:rofl :rofl :rofl

[kg0208]

Spot on Pare! but according to KG he never dropped taylor from "his" list:rofl :rofl :rofl
This is about our own lists right? Why should I drop the unbeaten Taylor? He fights everyone and every fight he has had since Hopkins is against a former champion. This thread isn't about Rings list.

[chimba]

This is about our own lists right? Why should I drop the unbeaten Taylor? He fights everyone and every fight he has had since Hopkins is against a former champion. This thread isn't about Rings list.

You pick Taylor over Pavlik??

[kg0208]

You pick Taylor over Pavlik??
No, and in the prediction thread PacD started on end of the year P4P lists, Taylor doesn't appear on mine and Pavlik is something like 8 or 9. But I won't drop a fighter for not losing to a championship level fighter, just not putting on a good show. Sometimes its a bad night, sometimes styles don't mesh. Sometimes, Spinks runs away.

[mad_takamura]

Yes, I know you don't only care about Pacman. It was a flawed statement. As was yours about me. Rating Pacman #2 P4P doesn't make me a hater. Rating him where most fans who are not Pinoy doesn't make me a hater. Dig up my posts and you will see that I have defended Pacman (just did so earlier today when someone in this very thread said he was not as PROVEN as MAB at 130) as well. Actually, I rarely criticize Pacman....I do however criticize his fanbase. And not because they cheer him, they should. But often many will say derogatory things about other fighters to try and boost Pacmans standing in their discussion when opposition rises. Or they will rate him using a certain criteria, then that criteria disappears when it is pointed out that it makes another fighter better or makes Pacman look worse.

Do YOU rank fighters based on excitement or what the outcome of the fight is? i agre with you that the outcome of the fight is more important but don't take away excitement out of the window. without it there will be no growing fanbase and popularity to the sport.

[kg0208]

i agre with you that the outcome of the fight is more important but don't take away excitement out of the window. without it there will be no growing fanbase and popularity to the sport.
I love the excitement. Its why I watch Pacman and Cotto. But it's so subjective. I am a thinker, so alot of the time it is very exciting for me to see a chess match (DLH-Trinidad) and PBF has been in a couple of those and I think this will be one. I find that exciting, and many don't.

So I take the outcome of the fight to objectively rank. In this case, I can't move Pacman up in my own rankings and wouldn't agree that PBF should drop in Ring's because he wins a clear but boring decision even if Pacman wins by KO. PBF is fighting the better fighter (now, not in ATG status) IMO and PBF is not a KO fighter. If we judged on excitement, then it would put boxers at a distinct disadvantage with sluggers.

[mad_takamura]

I love the excitement. Its why I watch Pacman and Cotto. But it's so subjective. I am a thinker, so alot of the time it is very exciting for me to see a chess match (DLH-Trinidad) and PBF has been in a couple of those and I think this will be one. I find that exciting, and many don't.

So I take the outcome of the fight to objectively rank. In this case, I can't move Pacman up in my own rankings and wouldn't agree that PBF should drop in Ring's because he wins a clear but boring decision even if Pacman wins by KO. PBF is fighting the better fighter (now, not in ATG status) IMO and PBF is not a KO fighter. If we judged on excitement, then it would put boxers at a distinct disadvantage with sluggers.
i have a haunch roach is morphing pac to become an in-boxer ala duran and hatton.

[PacDbest]

I said what I believed, not what Ring believes. I still have Taylor #5 in my p4p list. I didn't drop him. And I don't think his Spinks or Ouma fight were close.

Pacman didn't move ahead of Wright because he was more impressive in his wins, it's because he fought and beat better fighters. Wright had a draw with Taylor and beat an old Quartey.

In this case, Pacman is not fighting a better fighter than PBF is, so the Wright situation doesn't apply. And as I said, I don't drop fighters based on how exciting they are in the ring.



PBF is not a KO fighter, so a clear decision over a prime Hatton is better to me than a KO over a fighter we already know Pacman can KO who is not in his prime.


KG, you are full of Crap!!! Now you said Pac Beat a Better fighter but in the last thread we debate you said Pac beat a Shot Morales. Winky fought a Prime Taylor & Quartey (who probably matches Pac's tune against Larios).

Pac moved up to #2 because he is so impressive destroying an elite fighter although not Prime. While Winky can't dominate Taylor & Old Quartey.

Hatton better than MAB??? Hatton is a one dimensional who was exposed by Collazo & retreat back to 140. Now moving up again to fight the Champ at 147.

MAB(a skilled veteran) was on top 10 P4P before his close loss to top 10 P4P also in JMM. Some say He won, well some say Hatton lost to Collazo too, including me. So in my view Hatton & MAB are almost equal assignment for PBF & Pac.

It's not about who is exciting. It's about who consistently give an impressive wins.

[mad_takamura]

KG, you are full of Crap!!! Now you said Pac Beat a Better fighter but in the last thread we debate you said Pac beat a Shot Morales. Winky fought a Prime Taylor & Quartey (who probably matches Pac's tune against Larios).

Pac moved up to #2 because he is so impressive destroying an elite fighter although not Prime. While Winky can't dominate Taylor & Old Quartey.

Hatton better than MAB??? Hatton is a one dimensional who was exposed by Collazo & retreat back to 140. Now moving up again to fight the Champ at 147.

MAB(a skilled veteran) was on top 10 P4P before his close loss to top 10 P4P also in JMM. Some say He won, well some say Hatton lost to Collazo too, including me. So in my view Hatton & MAB are almost equal assignment for PBF & Pac.

It's not about who is exciting. It's about who consistently give an impressive wins.
although i really want hatton to win i think pbf might outbox him too considering his style is tailor-made for pbf.

[kg0208]

KG, you are full of Crap!!! Now you said Pac Beat a Better fighter but in the last thread we debate you said Pac beat a Shot Morales. Winky fought a Prime Taylor & Quartey (who probably matches Pac's tune against Larios).

Pac moved up to #2 because he is so impressive destroying an elite fighter although not Prime. While Winky can't dominate Taylor & Old Quartey.

Hatton better than MAB??? Hatton is a one dimensional who was exposed by Collazo & retreat back to 140. Now moving up again to fight the Champ at 147.

MAB(a skilled veteran) was on top 10 P4P before his close loss to top 10 P4P also in JMM. Some say He won, well some say Hatton lost to Collazo too, including me. So in my view Hatton & MAB are almost equal assignment for PBF & Pac.

It's not about who is exciting. It's about who consistently give an impressive wins.
If you're gonna turn this into the name game, then we can just move on.

Pacman did beat a shot Morales IMO. But that's my opinion and you cannot change it anymore than I can change yours. We were comparing this to PBF's resume, not Wrights. PBF has never lost or had a draw, Wright has. So bringing up what I said about Pacmans recent resume compared to PBF's is not the same as bringing up Pacman's resume compared to Wright's. I never said Pacman had a bad resume, so I don't know why you are so worked up.

Beating Morales is equal to a draw with Taylor IMO. Beating Larios at 130 is better than beating Quartey at 160 to me. (Both are 2 weight classes up from prime weight, but Quartey is in his late 30's). So Pacman moved ahead of Wright.

And you can push this all you like, but you will find few who think that MAB at his current state is as good as a Prime Hatton. And you will not convince me otherwise. Some say MAB lost to Juarez as well...but the outcome was MAB won, same as when Hatton fought Collazo.

Stop always looking for a fight with me.

[PacDbest]

This is about our own lists right? Why should I drop the unbeaten Taylor? He fights everyone and every fight he has had since Hopkins is against a former champion. This thread isn't about Rings list.

Don't save Face KG, I already destroy your argument. If we are not talking about the Ring, why am I debating you. Pac was already my # 1 p4P long time ago. This thread started because of Nigel Collins comments so you knew all along the we are talking about the Ring rankings. Just admit it, you are wrong. Pac can take over even if PBF wins in a borefest.

[kg0208]

Don't save Face KG, I already destroy your argument. If we are not talking about the Ring, why am I debating you. Pac was already my # 1 p4P long time ago. This thread started because of Nigel Collins comments so you knew all along the we are talking about the Ring rankings. Just admit it, you are wrong. Pac can take over even if PBF wins in a borefest.
You're boring me now. Just declaring you have won an argument doesn't mean anything PacDbest.

This thread stemmed from that, but in case you haven't noticed, the posters in this thread have been giving personal opinions on their own thoughts and rankings.

This is why I call you arrogant. Anyone who has a different opinion than you gets called names and a hater. And you claim false victory because you toss out logic that isn't logical to begin with.

Again, if you truly feel that you "destroy me" and all these other declarations, the debate option is still open. Claiming personal victory because you said so isn't victory at all, but you trying to convince yourself. Notice I never say I beat you in an argument. I let others point that out.

[mad_takamura]

If you're gonna turn this into the name game, then we can just move on.

Pacman did beat a shot Morales IMO. But that's my opinion and you cannot change it anymore than I can change yours. We were comparing this to PBF's resume, not Wrights. PBF has never lost or had a draw, Wright has. So bringing up what I said about Pacmans recent resume compared to PBF's is not the same as bringing up Pacman's resume compared to Wright's. I never said Pacman had a bad resume, so I don't know why you are so worked up.

Beating Morales is equal to a draw with Taylor IMO. Beating Larios at 130 is better than beating Quartey at 160 to me. (Both are 2 weight classes up from prime weight, but Quartey is in his late 30's). So Pacman moved ahead of Wright.

And you can push this all you like, but you will find few who think that MAB at his current state is as good as a Prime Hatton. And you will not convince me otherwise. Some say MAB lost to Juarez as well...but the outcome was MAB won, same as when Hatton fought Collazo.

Stop always looking for a fight with me. kg you always stick to outcomes although in the bigger picture you know what really happened!
just like to em-dd, i think em won that but you said dd won.
anyways that's another story.

[kg0208]

kg you always stick to outcomes although in the bigger picture you know what really happened!
just like to em-dd, i think em won that but you said em won.
anyways that's another story.

You don't know what I "always stick to". Yes, I think Diaz won. I am not the only one. That is one example. That doesn't give my entire POV. But it is better to stick with actual outcomes then subjective ones otherwise your bias slips in. You know you are biased and have admitted it. I am biased towards only one fighter because he is the only one I like. He is currently not a p4p player so I don't have to worry about this.

I know what really happened? Are you guys really that arrogant that you believe the only REAL outcome was what YOU personally viewed it to be?

[PacDbest]

I don't believe that a fighter should drop from their standing without losing, especially when facing another P4P fighter. Unless it was a robbery.

Did I disprove this statement of yours....

Then you make excuse,"we're talking about our own P4P ratings, not Ring rankings Right????"

Let me repeat my answer in colored letter:

How about the undefeated Jermain Taylor??? He was as high as #4 but now out of the top 10. He was demoted to the ranks because he is unimpressive. Pac overtakes Winky even thou winky never lost. This is because Pac was more impressive against elite fighter. Same thing with Hatton he went up up to top 5-6 but demoted for unimpressive fights with Collazo & Urango.

It's very Clear Floyd needs to win as impressive as Pac to keep his Place at the Top.

[kg0208]

No, you didn't disprove it.

PacD, I am going to ask you one last time to pay attention. Because you clearly only see what you choose.

The very first post in this thread says Regardless if he does it in devastating fashion.

Nigel Collins says yes, but in my book, no.

He says IN MY BOOK. Other posters have echoed what they thought personally about the subject.

I don't think so...he stays at number 2 in my book
Posted by Brooklyn1550. They are talking about their own rankings.

My statement is how I personally felt about the situation. You cannot prove it wrong. It's an opinion on how I think something should go. How can you prove wrong that I don't think something should happen?

When I posted in response to what you said about Wright dropping, I assumed you were talking about Ring's rankings and why THEY dropped him. I was merely giving the reasoning I believe they employed which was that Pacman had beaten better fighters than him recently. I never said I agreed with it, nor did I say that I would have dropped Wright in my own rankings.

You are so busy looking for an argument, you are not paying attention to what I am saying.

[mad_takamura]

[quote=kg0208]I don't believe that a fighter should drop from their standing without losing, especially when facing another P4P fighter. Unless it was a robbery.

kg you believe in outcomes as facts yet you believe that there are robberies?! quite contradicting...:huh

[kg0208]

you believe in outcomes as facts yet you believe that there are robberies?! quite contradicting...:huh
Not really. The outcome is a fact, and the robbery is subjective. The subjective part doesn't change the fact of the outcome now does it? The win is still in the record book.

Sturm was robbed against DLH. This is my subjective opinion. The FACT is that DLH won. I have never said that I wouldn't change a ranking based on a robbery.

Are you just looking for a fight? Because that was a reach.

[mad_takamura]

Not really. The outcome is a fact, and the robbery is subjective. The subjective part doesn't change the fact of the outcome now does it? The win is still in the record book.

Sturm was robbed against DLH. This is my subjective opinion. The FACT is that DLH won. I have never said that I wouldn't change a ranking based on a robbery.

Are you just looking for a fight? Because that was a reach. nope. i'm scared of the undertaker...:scaredas:

[kg0208]

nope. i'm scared of the undertaker...:scaredas:

Undertaker is a good guy. Loves Pacman, big fan.

[mad_takamura]

Undertaker is a good guy. Loves Pacman, big fan. are you one of his druids? if so i won't pick a fight with you..we friends..peace:?

[kg0208]

are you one of his druids? if so i won't pick a fight with you..we friends..peace:?
I only watch WWE to see the Undertaker. I met him once since he is from Florida and he was pretty cool. I was hoping to see him live at Wrestlemania before he retired, but I don't think I will get to. But I have seen him live 2 times, and gotten his (and Kane's) autograph. Very honorable guy.

[mad_takamura]

I only watch WWE to see the Undertaker. I met him once since he is from Florida and he was pretty cool. I was hoping to see him live at Wrestlemania before he retired, but I don't think I will get to. But I have seen him live 2 times, and gotten his (and Kane's) autograph. Very honorable guy. i like the rock. and the attitude era although at that time taker was a villain in ministry. that era rocks.
now i just don't feel cena he's boring! batista's cool he's pinoy but for me nothing compares to the attitude era.

[kg0208]

i like the rock. and the attitude era although at that time taker was a villain in ministry. that era rocks.
now i just don't feel cena he's boring! batista's cool he's pinoy but for me nothing compares to the attitude era.
That's why I don't watch anymore. It's gotten boring. Yah, Batista is cool, didn't know he was Pinoy though. Seen him in a match, but never met him before. Met Stacy Keibler though:deal

[mad_takamura]

That's why I don't watch anymore. It's gotten boring. Yah, Batista is cool, didn't know he was Pinoy though. Seen him in a match, but never met him before. Met Stacy Keibler though:deal
damn.you're a lucky guy! stacy's hot!
if i get the chance i want to see the panties and bra match with stacy and torrie wilson in it.:hey

[PacDbest]

Enjoy your WWE Talk. I'm done here!!!

[kg0208]

damn.you're a lucky guy! stacy's hot!
if i get the chance i want to see the panties and bra match with stacy and torrie wilson in it.:hey
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[hmi]

I just realized now that Hatton is going to fight Floyd at a higher weight division. This means that Floyd should dominate Hatton because Hatton is not fighting in his natural weight class. Hence I think that Pac-MAB and PBF-Hatton fights are of equal expectations. Pac and PBF should dominate their respective opponents. Hatton might be a champion, but not in the weight class that he will be fighting PBF.

[Morrissey]

A massive, decisive win WON'T automatically put him above PBF.

This still depends on the result of PBF's fight against Hatton. If the former wins, that will negate any kind of Pac's victory. If he loses, and Pac wins like he did in his 3rd fight with Morales, then, we can start arguing for Pac's ascencion to the p4p pinnacle.

[Morrissey]

I only watch WWE to see the Undertaker. I met him once since he is from Florida and he was pretty cool. I was hoping to see him live at Wrestlemania before he retired, but I don't think I will get to. But I have seen him live 2 times, and gotten his (and Kane's) autograph. Very honorable guy.

Is Undertaker really retired now?

Damn, that's sad.

One of the my favorite wrestlers, a living legend, and one of those who carried WWF all through these years..

[Marc]

Is Undertaker really retired now?

Damn, that's sad.

One of the my favorite wrestlers, a living legend, and one of those who carried WWF all through these years..

Undertaker just made his return match yesterday at a WWE PPV (Unforgiven).

[kg0208]

Is Undertaker really retired now?

Damn, that's sad.

One of the my favorite wrestlers, a living legend, and one of those who carried WWF all through these years..

Nah, he came back last night (relatively boring match with Henry....he can't perform very well). I just don't know that Taker will make it to Mania in one piece (keeps getting injured).

I live in Fl and Wrestlemania is in Orlando in 08. If he's there, I'm there.