who wins ? ray leonard vs. julian jackson , at 154 both prime

[frankenfrank]

now that's a hard and interesting question.
will jackson be able the first to stop leonard ?
or vice versa ?
suppose the ref has no patience for holding , cortez maybe.
poll added.

[Flea Man]

Double K.O (both throw a jab at the same time) in the first round

[laxpdx]

Jackson by KO, too strong for the smaller Ray.

[redrooster]

Jackson by crushing knockout. If Ray survives it would be the greatest of miracles. He simply wasnt in the same class as Norris and Jackson.

[frankenfrank]

Jackson by crushing knockout. If Ray survives it would be the greatest of miracles. He simply wasnt in the same class as Norris and Jackson.
in his one before last fight (vs. verno phillips) jackson weighed 149 , he really was not significantly smaller if at all than leonard.
he just competed at 160 for the money and recognition.
really a p4p puncher.
but not big.
he was something like a big 147 / very small 154.
despite my great respect for jackson and to his really underrated chin , i don't think he was a class above leonard like you imply. i even think that ray is the better fighter , though probably not by far as some will say.
in the leonard vs. norris thread i gave the reason why leonard is so much better than norris for sure.

[JohnThomas1]

Leonard would be too fast and classy in the end.

[Sister Sledge]

In a punchout, Jackson by KO. But this wouldn't be a punchout. Leonard was never a stupid fighter. He may get caught and knocked down, but in the end, he has enough boxing skills to stay out of too much trouble and wear Julian down and stop him late in the fight.

[redrooster]

in his one before last fight (vs. verno phillips) jackson weighed 149 , he really was not significantly smaller if at all than leonard.
he just competed at 160 for the money and recognition.
really a p4p puncher.
but not big.
he was something like a big 147 / very small 154.
despite my great respect for jackson and to his really underrated chin , i don't think he was a class above leonard like you imply. i even think that ray is the better fighter , though probably not by far as some will say.
in the leonard vs. norris thread i gave the reason why leonard is so much better than norris for sure.


I saw your reasons for ranking Leonard higher than Norris but it don't mean it's believable. Your reasons-because he won all those titles at higher weights but when it came down to it, he was no match for Norris himself. Once Ray got a taste of Terry's left to the head, he had no choice but resign himself to defeat. The sudden shock to his sytem was too much to stomach.

Perhaps if Norris had the luxury of getting hold of a sub par Hagler or got to face off with a no name fighter wearing a belt for two titles, Terry could pick up a few the easy way. And Kalule? That's a given. Norris could just appear in the ring and Ayub might as well just hand over his title. That would make 4 titles right there.

Leonard was great like I said but until the day he beats Norris in the ring no one can dare claim he's the better man.

And the same goes for Jackson. Only Jackson could claim a win over Norris since he actually beat him in the ring. As for Leonard standing up to Jackson, I'd put all my money on JJ not only to win but to put his lights out. Leonard has no chance.

[Flea Man]

Look, Leonard has the chin, ability, stamina AND power to stop both Jackson and Norris at 154.

And I'm a Leonard 'hater'.

He stops them both, the likes of frankenfrank and redrooster are just plain retarded and biased.

[redrooster]

Look, Leonard has the chin, ability, stamina AND power to stop both Jackson and Norris at 154.

And I'm a Leonard 'hater'.

He stops them both, the likes of frankenfrank and redrooster are just plain retarded and biased.

Excuse me?? You make claims without support and that's where your fault lies.

Jackson would have cleaned his clock. Even Leonard knows it or he would have called him out instead of signing for Lalonde, and the walking wounded Hearns.

I can just see leonard getting bowled over by little Kevin Howard at the age of 27, trying to get past the first five rounds with Julian as he turns up the heat. In fact, anyone that roughed him up, whether it be Geraldo or lalonde, had him tripping over his own feet.

The moment Ray becomes stationary with JJ is the moment he gets his head torn off.

[Dave's Top Ten]

Leonard has the boxing ability to make Jackson look very pedestrian (many boxers managed this). I like Leonard to stop him mid to late. Jackson landing one and ending it is entirely possible, but would you bet on it??

[Flea Man]

Excuse me?? You make claims without support and that's where your fault lies.

Jackson would have cleaned his clock. Even Leonard knows it or he would have called him out instead of signing for Lalonde, and the walking wounded Hearns.

I can just see leonard getting bowled over by little Kevin Howard at the age of 27, trying to get past the first five rounds with Julian as he turns up the heat. In fact, anyone that roughed him up, whether it be Geraldo or lalonde, had him tripping over his own feet.

The moment Ray becomes stationary with JJ is the moment he gets his head torn off.

:lol: get fucked

[Bill Butcher]

laxpdx ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), quest ([Only registered and activated users can see links]), redrooster ([Only registered and activated users can see links])

:verysad

[Bill Butcher]

No contest, Leonard is too much of everything for Jackson, different levels of fighter.

[redrooster]

:lol: get fucked

You always did have the inability to elaborate :lol:

[redrooster]

No contest, Leonard is too much of everything for Jackson, different levels of fighter.

Where's your proof? You got none

If he was too much of everything he would have rid the ring of Howard in a hurry instead of taking nine rounds and getting dumped :lol:

Ditto with Kalule. How preposterous that it took nine rounds before wearing him down. This is roughly the same fighter that defeated lalonde. Niether could fight. Both were stiff and slow but lalonde had a respectable punch whereas Kalule was no threat whatsoever

I was telling fleabrain about giving back up that's why I can elaborate my points so well and he cannot. The truth of the matter is the multidimensional Norris proved to be his master even as Jackson proved to be Norris'. Even if we dont like the outcome, we must accept it.

[Bummy Davis]

Leonard had too many tools and being aware of Jacksons power he would use his defence and speed to outclass Jackson, get him hurt and take him out...Leonard had great finishing skills...one of the best I have seen in modern times

[Flea Man]

You always did have the inability to elaborate :lol:

:lol::good

[Bill Butcher]

Where's your proof? You got none

If he was too much of everything he would have rid the ring of Howard in a hurry instead of taking nine rounds and getting dumped :lol:

Ditto with Kalule. How preposterous that it took nine rounds before wearing him down. This is roughly the same fighter that defeated lalonde. Niether could fight. Both were stiff and slow but lalonde had a respectable punch whereas Kalule was no threat whatsoever

I was telling fleabrain about giving back up that's why I can elaborate my points so well and he cannot. The truth of the matter is the multidimensional Norris proved to be his master even as Jackson proved to be Norris'. Even if we dont like the outcome, we must accept it.

Im not doing the `Leonard` thing with you again Rooster, its just a big vicious circle but I will say this.....

We all know that you know SRL would fuck Jackson up so let it go :lol:

[frankenfrank]

Look, Leonard has the chin, ability, stamina AND power to stop both Jackson and Norris at 154.

And I'm a Leonard 'hater'.

He stops them both, the likes of frankenfrank and redrooster are just plain retarded and biased.

how that idiot knows my opinion ?
I am sure Leonard defeats Norris , good chance for TKO.
Leonard-Jackson - I don't have a based/strong opinion.
if someone is biased here is the tickman who is a charley rose or nat fleischer or something , maybe a wanabe such.
he is of the ones whom liston is favorite over vitali klitschko and david tua for them.

[redrooster]

Im not doing the `Leonard` thing with you again Rooster, its just a big vicious circle but I will say this.....

We all know that you know SRL would fuck Jackson up so let it go :lol:

Oh yeah? Then all he had to do was invite him into the ring with him the way he did Lalonde and we'd have our answer. Seems Leonard wasn't so anxious to learn the answer.

If he couldnt compete with Norris, he's not going to compete with Jackson. Norris had much more speed than Ray could ever hope to have and JJ caught up in no time. So your line of reasoning is? Just wishful thinking?

Confidence in one's ability leads to more matches and less excuses.

[redrooster]

how that idiot knows my opinion ?
I am sure Leonard defeats Norris , good chance for TKO.
Leonard-Jackson - don't have a based/strong opinion.
if someone is biased here is the tickman who is a charley rose or nat fleischer or something , maybe a wanabe such.
he is of the ones whom liston is favorite over vitali klitschko and david tua for them.

he's talking out of his ass is what he's doing. You know and he knows JJ would put that clown to sleep. that's why the match never came off.

It could have and all ray had to do is say the word. I'm sure JJ would have more than willing to give it to him for a quick night's work making a million bucks a minute.

[essexboy]

Oh yeah? Then all he had to do was invite him into the ring with him the way he did Lalonde and we'd have our answer. Seems Leonard wasn't so anxious to learn the answer.

If he couldnt compete with Norris, he's not going to compete with Jackson. Norris had much more speed than Ray could ever hope to have and JJ caught up in no time. So your line of reasoning is? Just wishful thinking?

Confidence in one's ability leads to more matches and less excuses.

Who does Leonard beat in your opinion?

[frankenfrank]

i am telling you , i don't know what would have happenned in a jackson-leonard fight. hearns and hagler were very dangerous also , still leonard managed them (not saying i know who (really) won hagler/leonard , but it did went the distance and was close).

[redrooster]

Who does Leonard beat in your opinion?

Fair question. Safe opponents. Maybe someone like Steve Collins.

A least I HOPE SO!

also someone like Herol Graham

Junior middleweights like Mo Hope. To meet the criteria of slow, immobile. And you can't be able to punch hard.

Also, you can't have too much speed or decent footwork like Norris.

I just wish I had seen Ray make a few defenses against credible opposition but at 154, 160 he made none and his choosing of Lalonde as an opponent makes me even more critical of him