UFC Video Games and the modern mixed martial artist.

[sugarngold]

For some reason I feel the need to rant. This is not meant as a slight to anyone training in mixed martial arts - so pleas don't take it as such.

Is it me or does this new batch of fighters (for example the ones that keep coming through TUF) with only what is called mixed martial arts training - fight like they're in the UFC video game?

They are generally not fluid and have a limited understanding of each aspect of the game. They don't specialize in a traditional art and then branch out to other disciplines. They try to be well rounded by training with boxers, wrestlers, kick boxers, etc - but then miss the ways in which these elements all blend together because boxers don't understand jiujitsu. Kickboxers don't understand wrestling. jiujitsuans don't understand kickboxing. So they're not specializing and are instead learning a limited way to apply these techniques. Instead of finding a way of self expression - they are merely trying to fit themselves into this rigid mold of the mixed martial artist and wind up fighting like they're in the UFC video game. That's why I have to continually state that fighters like Rashad Evans are not strikers. He knows how to punch or how to swing his leg around with force - but doesn't understand footwork, fighting ranges, or how to properly put it all together.

Give me fighters that have a traditional base to build from whether it is wrestling ala Couture, jiujitsu ala Minotauro, san shou ala Cung Le, karate ala Machida, and so on.

Give me martial arts specialists over video game fighters any day.

[Grievesy]

I agree!:good

[jimmie]

Good post.

[solidchin]

100% agree good comments you should rant more:good:good

[Ubersteve]

Idk, the guys who train like that make good gatekeepers.

[codeman99998]

The argument seems to have a lot more weight than it actually does because you keep saying it is "like a videogame" even though I doubt very much that the fighters consider their training like a videogame in any way.

GSP trains everything and has no wrestling credentials. BJ Penn is an amazing Jujitsu fighter and BJJ is definitely his "base" (when understood as his starting martial art leading into MMA) but he wins standing all the time because he is a very well-rounded fighter.

I don't understand what all the hate is with being well-rounded and having extensive crosstraining. Is it good to be exceptional at 1 thing? Yes, of course, and it makes sense to use what you are exceptional at. But the notion that training in MMA from the very begining is worse than training in another more specialized martial art and getting amazing at that and then trying to add the other elements to your game later is foolish.

Training in MMA can allow you to develop the MMA specific skills that you need. It's been pointed out before that Kos is almost certainly a better wrestler than GSP but GSP could outwrestle him in MMA and I am sure whatever Greg Jackson's MMA specific training is for GSP has a lot to do with it. There is no reason that you can't become amazing at BJJ for MMA or wrestling for MMA or striking for MMA by focusing on those aspects of MMA as opposed to learning them in their foreign environments and then trying to modify them after you learned them to suit the MMA environment.

Melvin Manhoef is exceptional at one thing. Thales Leites is exceptional at one thing. These fighters are not champions because they are NOT well rounded.

Anderson Silva has won fights by submission, by ground and pound and by KO standing. BJ Penn wins fights by submissions and by KO standing. GSP wins standing and wins by submission. Fedor uses striking to set up submissions. Machida has used his BJJ to win fights, and he's won standing. Just because some fighters have a clearer single discipline background than others, doesn't mean that nearly every current great MMA fighter is very very well rounded.

[scurlaruntings]

For some reason I feel the need to rant. This is not meant as a slight to anyone training in mixed martial arts - so pleas don't take it as such.

Is it me or does this new batch of fighters (for example the ones that keep coming through TUF) with only what is called mixed martial arts training - fight like they're in the UFC video game?

They are generally not fluid and have a limited understanding of each aspect of the game. They don't specialize in a traditional art and then branch out to other disciplines. They try to be well rounded by training with boxers, wrestlers, kick boxers, etc - but then miss the ways in which these elements all blend together because boxers don't understand jiujitsu. Kickboxers don't understand wrestling. jiujitsuans don't understand kickboxing. So they're not specializing and are instead learning a limited way to apply these techniques. Instead of finding a way of self expression - they are merely trying to fit themselves into this rigid mold of the mixed martial artist and wind up fighting like they're in the UFC video game. That's why I have to continually state that fighters like Rashad Evans are not strikers. He knows how to punch or how to swing his leg around with force - but doesn't understand footwork, fighting ranges, or how to properly put it all together.

Give me fighters that have a traditional base to build from whether it is wrestling ala Couture, jiujitsu ala Minotauro, san shou ala Cung Le, karate ala Machida, and so on.

Give me martial arts specialists over video game fighters any day.Been saying this for a long long time. This is what happens when guys assume you need to be "well rounded". Average at everything and not good at even one aspect of any MA. This is the sole reason why im not that positive on "how" MMA can get much better in terms of evolvment. We've truly had a golden era in MMA and this whole myth that you need to be well rounded is just that a myth. Guys like Coleman Fedor CC Nog Couture Rampage Wandy Shogun etc were all great because they knew what there bread and butter is. Now we have all these bullshit freestyle fighters.

[codeman99998]

Been saying this for a long long time. This is what happens when guys assume you need to be "well rounded". Average at everything and not good at even one aspect of any MA. This is the sole reason why im not that positive on "how" MMA can get much better in terms of evolvment. We've truly had a golden era in MMA and this whole myth that you need to be well rounded is just that a myth. Guys like Coleman Fedor CC Nog Couture Rampage Wandy Shogun etc were all great because they knew what there bread and butter is. Now we have all these bullshit freestyle fighters.

Forrest Griffin, a "freestyle" fighter, beat both Shogun and Rampage. Lot's of fighters have high levels of success without being locked into one discipline. Nate Marquardt is a very well-rounded fighter and that is why he destroyed Maia, who is one dimensional.

[scurlaruntings]

Forrest Griffin, a "freestyle" fighter, beat both Shogun and Rampage. Lot's of fighters have high levels of success without being locked into one discipline. Nate Marquardt is a very well-rounded fighter and that is why he destroyed Maia, who is one dimensional.Please do not qoute Griffin as some shining example of a "freestyle" fighter. Im not doubting any modicum of success they do have but Griffins success in comparisons to Shoguns in PRIDE is not comparable. The same is true of Silva when compared with Nate.

[codeman99998]

I'm not comparing success stories, I am just saying that Forrest beat Shogun when they actually fought, so there has to be something to it.

Silva is definitely better than Nate but Silva is a well-rounded fighter. He uses his muy thai primarily because that is what he is good at, and it makes sense to play to your strengths, but he isn't a world class muy thai champion he is specifically affective in MMA. He submitted Travis Lutter off of his back. He KO'd Marquardt with GnP. Being well-rounded doesn't mean you have to be good at nothing.

[Dave_j1985]

For some reason I feel the need to rant. This is not meant as a slight to anyone training in mixed martial arts - so pleas don't take it as such.

Is it me or does this new batch of fighters (for example the ones that keep coming through TUF) with only what is called mixed martial arts training - fight like they're in the UFC video game?

They are generally not fluid and have a limited understanding of each aspect of the game. They don't specialize in a traditional art and then branch out to other disciplines. They try to be well rounded by training with boxers, wrestlers, kick boxers, etc - but then miss the ways in which these elements all blend together because boxers don't understand jiujitsu. Kickboxers don't understand wrestling. jiujitsuans don't understand kickboxing. So they're not specializing and are instead learning a limited way to apply these techniques. Instead of finding a way of self expression - they are merely trying to fit themselves into this rigid mold of the mixed martial artist and wind up fighting like they're in the UFC video game. That's why I have to continually state that fighters like Rashad Evans are not strikers. He knows how to punch or how to swing his leg around with force - but doesn't understand footwork, fighting ranges, or how to properly put it all together.

Give me fighters that have a traditional base to build from whether it is wrestling ala Couture, jiujitsu ala Minotauro, san shou ala Cung Le, karate ala Machida, and so on.

Give me martial arts specialists over video game fighters any day.


I agree to a a certain extent. Alot of young guys and even people I know train MMA but no 1 particular martial art as their bread and butter. Which means they know a little bit of everything but don't have any strong points.

Some guys can become very well rounded, but keep in mind these guys still have their specialties and didn't start MMA by only training MMA.
GSP, very well rounded but has a background in karate I believe.
BJ Penn, also very well rounded but started out as just a BJJ blaackbelt.
Anderson Silva, can submit you or knock you out but consider thai boxing his artform.

[jimmie]

Been saying this for a long long time. This is what happens when guys assume you need to be "well rounded". Average at everything and not good at even one aspect of any MA. This is the sole reason why im not that positive on "how" MMA can get much better in terms of evolvment. We've truly had a golden era in MMA and this whole myth that you need to be well rounded is just that a myth. Guys like Coleman Fedor CC Nog Couture Rampage Wandy Shogun etc were all great because they knew what there bread and butter is. Now we have all these bullshit freestyle fighters.

I agree to an extent. I still think we kinda still have the domination by specialization thing going on. Some of the guys you mentioned almost always dominate with what they are great at but do have another aspect to go to. To be successful in this day you do have to be well rounded but I dont care what anyone says to be a dominant fighter IMO you have to have a very strong base in something like the BJs,Silvas,Machidas etc. Its thought by many that in order to be the best you have to be equally great in all aspects which is very hard and I think these guys who just jump right into MMA without a strong grappling base or striking base are going to have there worked cut out for them and I dont consider them real martial artist. When I think of Martial Artist I think of those men who have mastered there discipline. I started MMA training id say last June and at first I kinda feel into that belief that you have to train equally in all areas. Ive been in boxing since 04 and still amateurly box now its my strength but I tried to change that and become some Muay Thai guy but over the last few months ive narrowed that game for me down to just Thai defenses you know to defend kicks and clinches and everything while Boxing is my striking art. Kinda like the BJ style is what im going for. In standup ill just stick to what I happen to be good at for the last few years.

[thejokerswild]

As much as I love the specialist guys, these pure MMA guys are paving the way for a new superior breed of martial arts.