Mayweather/Marquez...A classic fan's perspective.

[dpw417]

Logic says Mayweather...

Size, strength, speed, defense, power...It seems any attribute you care to call off, favors Mayweather. I may end up totally wrong, but when I look at this fight, I see a very competitive match, with both fighters setting and excuting traps throughout the fight.

One of the main keys for Floyd is to be able to dictate pace and distance. He'll attempt this by trying power shots early, making Marquez realize the size difference. Can he make Marquez slow down and think before coming in? If he can accomplish this, the fight may be 3/4 won...I think Mayweather will tactically be looking for a hard left hook counter when Marquez attempts uppercuts from either the left or right side. Mayweather is excellent at what he does...he can feint and change angles very quickly. In one sequence of the Hatton fight he feinted a jab, a right cross, then a left hook stopping the charging Hatton in his tracks with just feints. Why? He got Hatton's respect earlier in the fight.

Setting traps... both Mayweather and Marquez are going to be watching where and how the opponent reacts defensively to punches. Where and how do they slip the blows?...To what side?... Or get under them?... What position are they in after they punch?

Different scenarios can play in the mind's eye.

Mayweather will be watching for Marquez to step forward with a lean towards the left side as he attempts to close distance. The initial step is Mayweather's clue to change his position, then counter. Mayweather will play to his strength forcing Marquez to force the fight. Floyd will not care how he looks...just that he wins. What makes this fight intriguing is that in Marquez, Floyd is fighting an experienced opponent who will also be looking to exploit any opening he can. In this respect, he may be the most capable offensive opponent that Floyd has ever faced, in terms of punch variation and combinations.

Mayweather enjoyed success against DLH in large part because Oscar put away his jab after about six rounds. Did he?...Freddie Roach commented that DLH took himself out of position by following Mayweather around the ring, instead of cutting it off...In essense, DLH himself took away his best chance of winning a close fight. I do not think that Marquez will be making that same error. It looks like on the scant film sparring on 24/7 and past fights, that it would seem Marquez is working on coming in on angles...and Marquez does this subtley. Against Pacquiao, he adjusted by moving slightly to his left, creating a bit more distance between himself and Pac's straight left hand...after Pac would reach, Marquez would counter with his right. Juan will try this with Floyd at times creating a bit of distance away from Mayweather's left hook and crowding his right hand. In this instance, being the smaller fighter may work to an advantage. Marquez has an excellent looping left hook that seems go around the opponent's defense. Marquez will have to change up and vary his attacks and angles. from the left side, he will attempt to bring the right hand under and over. What may give Marquez the chance to use these tactics is that Mayweather is a more stationary fighter than he was at junior-lightweight through junior-welter. Preferring to move and punch less, relying on accuracy, ring smarts, and speed. Mayweather takes a page from Hopkins' at times, he looks to get set for right hands by widening his stance. He is quicker and more athletic than Hopkins, and the transition is much faster. It is less detectable because Floyd will move the backfoot back, rather than extending the from foot forward...Floyd does this to get more power into the shot. If Marquez comes directly into Mayweather without being at an angle, he is in positioned to be countered very hard by Floyd.

Generally speaking, after throwing a lead left hook, Mayweather's momentum will carry him out of an opponents punching range as he escapes to his right side. After a lead right hand, Mayweather will clutch and grab...very similar to Hopkins. Marquez may be the only opponent that Floyd has faced who can possibly counter those Mayweather tactics, because of the ability to punch at those angles from either side. It may prove interesting when Floyd thinks he may be out of range and he isn't.

Floyd's under used left jab may be brought out for this fight. If Mayweather consistantly uses the left jab, this fight may become easier for him or it might allow Marquez more opportunities to get closer and encourage exchanges making Mayweather fight at a quicker pace.

Marquez will have Floyd guessing at times too, mixing up power and delivery upstairs and down. the prospect of watching Floyd defend against one of the most fluid combination punchers to come along in a long time is an intriguing thought to me. The activity may throw off Mayweather's timing and pacing.

With that in mind...I'm going out on a limb.

Marquez by split decision.

[rekcutnevets]

Picking Mayweather is not unjustifiable, it makes perfect sense. Mayweather is bigger, faster, and even technically superior. Mayweather does throw shorter punches.

However, Mayweather has to be too big for Marquez in order to win. If Marquez looks as strong as Mayweather, and Mayweather can't easily dictate to and out maneuver his smaller foe, Mayweather is in trouble. Marquez' jab, higher punch output, and will to win will be a huge problem for Mayweather. I'm looking forward to this, and will not be surprised if Marquez wins it.

I won't be betting on this occasion.

[Sweet Pea]

That is one shaky limb, my friend. Mayweather by stoppage somewhere in the mid to late rounds, between 6-9 is my guess. As I've said before, he holds every conceivable advantage.

[janitor]

What effect do people think that Mayweathers recent inactivity will have?

[Gesta]

That is one shaky limb, my friend. Mayweather by stoppage somewhere in the mid to late rounds, between 6-9 is my guess. As I've said before, he holds every conceivable advantage.

I cannot disagree with this, as much as I want JMM to win.

[AlFrancis]

What effect do people think that Mayweathers recent inactivity will have?


I was wondering about this. Nearly 2 years out for a fighter who relies a lot on his reflexes and speed.
I really hope JMM can pull this off.

[Gesta]

I was wondering about this. Nearly 2 years out for a fighter who relies a lot on his reflexes and speed.
I really hope JMM can pull this off.

I think that Floyd would have still be training while ""retired" thou.

[zadfrak]

Logic says Mayweather...

Size, strength, speed, defense, power...It seems any attribute you care to call off, favors Mayweather. I may end up totally wrong, but when I look at this fight, I see a very competitive match, with both fighters setting and excuting traps throughout the fight.

One of the main keys for Floyd is to be able to dictate pace and distance. He'll attempt this by trying power shots early, making Marquez realize the size difference. Can he make Marquez slow down and think before coming in? If he can accomplish this, the fight may be 3/4 won...I think Mayweather will tactically be looking for a hard left hook counter when Marquez attempts uppercuts from either the left or right side. Mayweather is excellent at what he does...he can feint and change angles very quickly. In one sequence of the Hatton fight he feinted a jab, a right cross, then a left hook stopping the charging Hatton in his tracks with just feints. Why? He got Hatton's respect earlier in the fight.

Setting traps... both Mayweather and Marquez are going to be watching where and how the opponent reacts defensively to punches. Where and how do they slip the blows?...To what side?... Or get under them?... What position are they in after they punch?

Different scenarios can play in the mind's eye.

Mayweather will be watching for Marquez to step forward with a lean towards the left side as he attempts to close distance. The initial step is Mayweather's clue to change his position, then counter. Mayweather will play to his strength forcing Marquez to force the fight. Floyd will not care how he looks...just that he wins. What makes this fight intriguing is that in Marquez, Floyd is fighting an experienced opponent who will also be looking to exploit any opening he can. In this respect, he may be the most capable offensive opponent that Floyd has ever faced, in terms of punch variation and combinations.

Mayweather enjoyed success against DLH in large part because Oscar put away his jab after about six rounds. Did he?...Freddie Roach commented that DLH took himself out of position by following Mayweather around the ring, instead of cutting it off...In essense, DLH himself took away his best chance of winning a close fight. I do not think that Marquez will be making that same error. It looks like on the scant film sparring on 24/7 and past fights, that it would seem Marquez is working on coming in on angles...and Marquez does this subtley. Against Pacquiao, he adjusted by moving slightly to his left, creating a bit more distance between himself and Pac's straight left hand...after Pac would reach, Marquez would counter with his right. Juan will try this with Floyd at times creating a bit of distance away from Mayweather's left hook and crowding his right hand. In this instance, being the smaller fighter may work to an advantage. Marquez has an excellent looping left hook that seems go around the opponent's defense. Marquez will have to change up and vary his attacks and angles. from the left side, he will attempt to bring the right hand under and over. What may give Marquez the chance to use these tactics is that Mayweather is a more stationary fighter than he was at junior-lightweight through junior-welter. Preferring to move and punch less, relying on accuracy, ring smarts, and speed. Mayweather takes a page from Hopkins' at times, he looks to get set for right hands by widening his stance. He is quicker and more athletic than Hopkins, and the transition is much faster. It is less detectable because Floyd will move the backfoot back, rather than extending the from foot forward...Floyd does this to get more power into the shot. If Marquez comes directly into Mayweather without being at an angle, he is in positioned to be countered very hard by Floyd.

Generally speaking, after throwing a lead left hook, Mayweather's momentum will carry him out of an opponents punching range as he escapes to his right side. After a lead right hand, Mayweather will clutch and grab...very similar to Hopkins. Marquez may be the only opponent that Floyd has faced who can possibly counter those Mayweather tactics, because of the ability to punch at those angles from either side. It may prove interesting when Floyd thinks he may be out of range and he isn't.

Floyd's under used left jab may be brought out for this fight. If Mayweather consistantly uses the left jab, this fight may become easier for him or it might allow Marquez more opportunities to get closer and encourage exchanges making Mayweather fight at a quicker pace.

Marquez will have Floyd guessing at times too, mixing up power and delivery upstairs and down. the prospect of watching Floyd defend against one of the most fluid combination punchers to come along in a long time is an intriguing thought to me. The activity may throw off Mayweather's timing and pacing.

With that in mind...I'm going out on a limb.

Marquez by split decision.

Interesting and well thought out post.

I'd like the Marquez chances a whole lot better in a role reversal tho. As in he's the young guy with reflexes and it's Mayweather that's old in the tooth. Especially in the legs department. It's going to be very very difficult for Marquez to win this bout on the scorecards without knockdowns. Probably needs more than 1. He needs about 9 rounds in the bank to win a split decision in this. Whenever we have 1 of these scenario's in boxing and they're setting up a big PPV event for the near future, I know who's getting the breaks.

The other factor in this match is if Marquez does actually hurt the guy, I think Mayweather will alter his style to a cutie pie and will be happy to pick and peck.

[Shake]

Mayweather by UD or late TKO -- and only a late TKO because Marquez ends up fighting in desperation, hunting down Floyd who has a considerable points lead.

[he grant]

History dictates that this should be a tough fight for the comebacking Mayweather, off two years , however, again, he is fighting a smaller man and a much older one at that. No one knows what Marquez has left at 36. He will have to fight at a frantic pace for all twelve rounds against a highly elusive target.

If Mayweather were coming back against a 30 year old Marquez I'd pick Mauquez but Mayweather decisions the older man, pulling away after the eigth ...

[lefthook31]

What effect do people think that Mayweathers recent inactivity will have?
I think it could be a big factor. I think the original postponement was because Floyd's timing was off and he wasnt feeling it. I also think thats why his father all of sudden appeared. I still like Floyd to win, but I think the fight gets a little more interesting in the second half, if Marquez makes it that far. Its not going to be a slow paced fight, and Floyd is fighting a small guy, but one that is quick and technically sound.

[Raging B(_)LL]

[QUOTE]Interesting and well thought out post.

Indeed, I quite enjoyed the read myself.

I'd like the Marquez chances a whole lot better in a role reversal tho. As in he's the young guy with reflexes and it's Mayweather that's old in the tooth. Especially in the legs department. It's going to be very very difficult for Marquez to win this bout on the scorecards without knockdowns. Probably needs more than 1. He needs about 9 rounds in the bank to win a split decision in this. Whenever we have 1 of these scenario's in boxing and they're setting up a big PPV event for the near future, I know who's getting the breaks.

I was going to bring this up as well, no way JMM walks away with a decision here unless he outright dominates which he won`t, and even he knows this as well I`m sure.

The other factor in this match is if Marquez does actually hurt the guy, I think Mayweather will alter his style to a cutie pie and will be happy to pick and peck.

Indeed, that would be Mayweather`s modus operandi in such a scenario, and one that I expect to happen actually.

[sweet_scientist]

Marquez has always looked substandard against guys that run or counterpunch and don't play into his hands (Norwood, John, Barrera, Casamayor). Barring a major drop off because of Floyd's inactivity this bout will be a boring and uncomeptitive Mayweather special with a 9-3 type of decision or a late stoppage if Marquez deteriorates further than he has already shown.

I hope Marquez wins, but I think Floyd's gonna play it safe and run and potshot his way to victory.

[dpw417]

146lbs to 142 lbs...I'm guessing Mayweather will come in tonight around 153-154 lbs, and Marquez will be 146-147 lbs. Not really sure the extra two pounds has any bearing. Mayweather will basically use the strength advantage to fend off Marquez, not to attempt to impose on him.
I'm thinking Marquez is going initiate (with the jab) then attempt to counter Mayweather's counters, keeping the pace uptempo. I don't see Mayweather being the same fluid fighter he was 20 months ago...He looks more filled out and heavier...going against the most proficient offensive fighter he will have faced. I believe Mayweather will be slower and the work that Marquez has implemented to training, will help to keep his speed intact.
Mayweather will find that Marquez is much more adept at getting under his punches than either Hatton or DLH...and if he brings up uppercuts or hooks, he'll be countered.

Janitor, one of the main reasons I'm going with Marquez is because of the layoff. I'm looking for a good fight.

regardless of the weight...Marquez decision.

[Grinder]

146lbs to 142 lbs...I'm guessing Mayweather will come in tonight around 153-154 lbs, and Marquez will be 146-147 lbs. Not really sure the extra two pounds has any bearing. Mayweather will basically use the strength advantage to fend off Marquez, not to attempt to impose on him.
I'm thinking Marquez is going initiate (with the jab) then attempt to counter Mayweather's counters, keeping the pace uptempo. I don't see Mayweather being the same fluid fighter he was 20 months ago...He looks more filled out and heavier...going against the most proficient offensive fighter he will have faced. I believe Mayweather will be slower and the work that Marquez has implemented to training, will help to keep his speed intact.
Mayweather will find that Marquez is much more adept at getting under his punches than either Hatton or DLH...and if he brings up uppercuts or hooks, he'll be countered.

Janitor, one of the main reasons I'm going with Marquez is because of the layoff. I'm looking for a good fight.

regardless of the weight...Marquez decision.

I would like the Classic's view of Floyd coming in at 146, ie making no concessions at all in the fight.

Second, why will Marquez be at 146? He was at 142 at the weigh in. He has put on as much as he possibly can and he has not drained weight. Is he going to have a craving for Tacos before the fight or am I missing something.

[rekcutnevets]

After watching the 3rd episode of Mayweather/Marquez 24/7, I was impressed by Marquez' speed in the sparring sessions. He's not faster than Mayweather, but this is not the area for which Marquez should be concerned.

If these fighters were the same size, I think Marquez may very well be stylistically suited to defeat Mayweather. I'll repeat something I said earlier, Mayweather has to be too big in order to win. If Marquez can get his jab going, and impose his higher workrate, Mayweather could be in for a difficult time.

With Mayweather coming in at 146, and Marquez at 142; I would suspect Mayweather to have a 10 lb. advantage come fight time. Mayweather may be too big. If Mayweather's size is not an obvious factor, Marquez wins this.

[natonic]

I would like the Classic's view of Floyd coming in at 146, ie making no concessions at all in the fight.

Second, why will Marquez be at 146? He was at 142 at the weigh in. He has put on as much as he possibly can and he has not drained weight. Is he going to have a craving for Tacos before the fight or am I missing something.

Mayweather..........uh, great avatar...uh............This is bullshit. Mayweather should be forced to make the weight. He's the bigger man to begin with. I doesn't need more of an advantage in this situation. Fuck time limits and all. They should make him make the agreed upon weight no matter how long it takes. For a guy who's supposedly in financial trouble it's stupid to give up $600,000. Unfortunately, I think Mayweather can and will be sharp at 146. It's not like he's pulling a Chris Arreola. Bigger, faster, stronger. I see a clear decision for Mayweather.

[Drew101]

Mayweather, close UD. Something tells me that after a rough couple of rounds, Mayweather will begin to find the rhythm with that counter right hand, minimize exchanges to the point where most of the rounds are decided by one or two clean blows, bank enough rounds later on in the fight to secure a fairly close, but probably deserved decision. Marquez is generally better against fighters who try to engage, and I just don't see PBF doing that unless it's on his terms.

[Sweet Pea]

I will be very surprised if this fight is anywhere near as close as most of you seem to think. In fact if this fight goes the distance I'll be left scratching my head. I think that would just expose Floyd to a degree.

[Wu-Gambino]

Yeah, same as above, I expect Floyd to win this rather handily.

[rekcutnevets]

Posted by Sweet Pea
I will be very surprised if this fight is anywhere near as close as most of you seem to think. In fact if this fight goes the distance I'll be left scratching my head. I think that would just expose Floyd to a degree.
This may well be the case, but let me try to use a couple of examples to make my point.

Nearly a decade ago, Diego Corrales faced Angel Manfredy on HBO. Corrales blast Manfredy out in 3 rounds. Manfredy fought the right game plan, he just wasn't strong enough to be effective against Corrales. When I saw that fight, I knew Corrales would lose to Mayweather, because of the punches Manfredy was landing with little effect. I felt that Mayweather's stronger punches would have an entirely different effect. Mayweather may have more ability than Manfredy, but the key difference here is Mayweather was strong enough to effectively execute an effective fight plan.

I think that Marquez has the right style to defeat Mayweather. I don't know if he will be physically strong enough to pull it off. If Marquez is not strong enough, I wouldn't be surprised to see him end up like Manfredy did against Corrales. If he is strong enough to be effective, I don't think he'll be capable of doing to Mayweather what Mayweather did to Corrales. I do think victory is very likely.

[Bokaj]

I think that Floyd would have still be training while ""retired" thou.

That's the feeling I've got as well. He also announced his comeback this spring, not even 18 months after announcing his retirement.

I hope he looks to be in splendid condition and wins impressively. I want no excuses when Pac hopefully beats his ass.

[Wu-Gambino]

Yeah, same as above, I expect Floyd to win this rather handily.

:deal

[Sweet Pea]

I wouldn't go so far as to say that fight exposed Floyd, as I think past a certain point he was more or less carrying Marquez, but it certainly didn't prove anything we didn't already know. People can give the longest, most in-depth explanations they want, that didn't change the fact that Marquez had no legit chance in this fight. Quite the snooze-fest. Now that that one's out of the way, it's time for Floyd to actually show us something when he takes on the Pacquiao/Cotto winner (a.k.a. Pacquiao).

[sweet_scientist]

I'm waiting for the day an A level welterweight can arrive that can challenge Floyd. Right now there isn't one around.

[dpw417]

Well...the limb broke.

I thought Floyd looked great technically. Everything was sharp, not a bit of rust. Mayweather looked like all of his prior speed of hand and foot were very much there. Credit must be given to him in that regard. Mayweather's style forced Marquez out of his game and the size advantage were way too much. I did not think the weight advantage would matter that much but it certainly did.

I would really like for Mayweather to step up and fight Shane Mosely now, to prove himself. Mayweather became lightweight champ (at 146 lbs) last night, can he beat the welterweight champ?

[Grinder]

I'm waiting for the day an A level welterweight can arrive that can challenge Floyd. Right now there isn't one around.


Sugar Shane? Paul Williams?

[smitty_son408]

Sugar Shane? Paul Williams?

This guy is becoming unbearably overrated.

[sweet_scientist]

A prime Sugar Shane? A guy that doesn't lose to C-grade boxers like Quintana?

Exactly :good

[Bill Butcher]

That's the feeling I've got as well. He also announced his comeback this spring, not even 18 months after announcing his retirement.

I hope he looks to be in splendid condition and wins impressively. I want no excuses when Pac hopefully beats his ass.

Thats the magic word isnt it ?

IMO it wont happen tho, I think Mayweather will hand Pacquiao his ass.

Ps. Im not even sure Manny will get by Cotto, I lean towards Pac by the smallest of pubes, tough fight for him but if he comes thru it then loses to Mayweather, please, no excuses about Mayweather only winning because he was too big for Pac, the better fighter will be victorious.