**tyson,,one of the best heavyweights??**

[TheGreatest]

Would you consider mike tyson as one of the best hw of all time??

[PetethePrince]

Just makes the top 10. He's one of those borderline top 10's from the general classic fans here.

[lefthook31]

I do. He is one of the most talented fighters ever to lace them up. His accomplishments as being the youngest heavyweight champion and the last to unify all three titles separetely cannot be overlooked, but his full potential was never realized.

[Dempsey1238]

Yeah, any were from ten to 12 about. At worse 15 perhaps lol.

But I have Tyson in my top 12 though.

[Bummy Davis]

His fast start and quick powerful punching give him a chance vs the best and he was on a roll leading to Spinks...Had he retired then we would have wondered if 1) he could get off the floor to win 2) Could he stop a man after 8 rds( he did this once) 3) what would he do when a man took his best and stood with him.....later we found out that he did not not answer those questions well...I still think he just makes 10 because of his great early start in his career and the way he dominated a division and fought the best leading up to his downfall (King's influance)

[godking]

Would you consider mike tyson as one of the best hw of all time??Yes He is top tn for me.

[abraq]

Would you consider mike tyson as one of the best hw of all time??

Yes.

[essexboy]

Just outside top ten for me. I have Liston tenth and Tyson eleventh.

[gooners!!]

No, because as talented as people( his fans) might believe he was................ATG status is exclusively for fighters who were great not because they could of been great.

Its all about the resume when all said and done, its who you beat not who you might have beaten and ifs and buts.

[djanders]

He is just outside the top 10 for me, but definitely included in my top 15 Heavyweights of all time. He was a very exciting fighter and I enjoyed watching him fight immensely. He brought me to my feet more than once!

[godking]

No, because as talented as people( his fans) might believe he was................ATG status is exclusively for fighters who were great not because they could of been great.

Its all about the resume when all said and done, its who you beat not who you might have beaten and ifs and buts.
Your right someone who becomes a hw champion at 20 is the first and last hw to unify every legit title in his era. Has 9 title defenses . Damn near clears out every viable contender in his era does not deserve to be called great and has a poor resume :roll::roll::roll::roll:

[Arka]

Would you consider mike tyson as one of the best hw of all time??

From the film of him,he seemed a decent fighter.
Yeah.Why not?

[fists of fury]

Had he retired then we would have wondered if 1) he could get off the floor to win 2) Could he stop a man after 8 rds( he did this once)

With due respect, these things at times are overplayed. For instance, Lennox Lewis, a fighter many if not most rank ahead of Tyson...

a) Never got up off the floor to win
b) Never stopped a man after 8 rounds

I'm just making a point; obviously there is a lot more to greatness or whatever you want to call it than just that.

Yes, I think Tyson deserves the 'greatness' tag, although he falls considerably short of the likes of Ali and Louis.

Let's forget for a second what he accomplished....Evander Holyfield I think would struggle for ATG status if not for his wins over Tyson, Tony Tucker and Razor Ruddock enhaced their status considerably in losing efforts to Tyson and Lewis needed the win to cement his place among the greats. (Although for me he had already achieved that, but the win was the last big T to cross for him)

His impact in the sport cannot be denied. That, combined with what he did achieve, cements it in my eyes. Certainly for me, if he is not a great, then the likes of Dempsey and Frazier are not either, for (imo) Tyson was at least on a par with these guys overall.

[gooners!!]

Your right someone who becomes a hw champion at 20 is the first and last hw to unify every legit title in his era. Has 9 title defenses . Damn near clears out every viable contender in his era does not deserve to be called great and has a poor resume


Not an ATG no.

What difference does it make how old he was when he won it, the bottom line is, who have you beaten and if you have not beaten perceived great competition (Holmes) then you can at least have longevity as your claim to being an ATG. Even with that Larry still had a better resume than Tyson.

No one said he had a poor resume, its just it does not stand up when you try and make him an ATG.


Tyson fans :roll:

[MrMarvel]

Top ten for me.

[TommyV]

Your right someone who becomes a hw champion at 20 is the first and last hw to unify every legit title in his era. Has 9 title defenses . Damn near clears out every viable contender in his era does not deserve to be called great and has a poor resume :roll::roll::roll::roll:

Show me where Tyson has a real A grade win? Holmes was finished, Spinks a terrific 175 but only an average HW, and they are probably his 2 best wins.

[JudgeDredd]

He's on the fringe, his career started great then bombed

[junior-soprano]

he is between 10 and 15 for me

[lefthook31]

Show me where Tyson has a real A grade win? Holmes was finished, Spinks a terrific 175 but only an average HW, and they are probably his 2 best wins.
His fights with Tyrell Biggs, Pinklon Thomas, and Trevor Berbick were pretty dam impressive. He took some savvy boxers and destroyed them. Noone did to Holmes what Tyson did to him either and Holmes went on to win some good fights and be competitive with some good fighters.
Its hard to say how he would do against a prime Holyfield, Lewis, or Holmes or whoever, but based on the fact of how he, versus others competed against some of the above mentioned fighters, its fair to say Tyson at that time during his prime 86-89, was a hell of dominant force.

[guilalah]

Top 20 (Hvy) sure, top 15 probably, top 10 maybe, top 5 possibly in certain scenarios.

[Unforgiven]

A brilliant fighter at his peak, but I'd put several heavyweights above him on an all-time list.

He lost the undisputed championship by a convincing knockout defeat to Buster Douglas, at age 23. He didn't do enough after that to really smooth over his damaged reputation. No excuses.

[fists of fury]

His fights with Tyrell Biggs, Pinklon Thomas, and Trevor Berbick were pretty dam impressive. He took some savvy boxers and destroyed them.

I'd add the Tubbs win as another terrific performance. He took apart a durable guy with clinical ease. That left hook to finish things was a beautiful punch.
Not many heavyweights would have made Tubbs look so ordinary.

[lefthook31]

I'd add the Tubbs win as another terrific performance. He took apart a durable guy with clinical ease. That left hook to finish things was a beautiful punch.
Not many heavyweights would have made Tubbs look so ordinary.
Yes your right. Tubbs was very underated because of his body, but really a good solid fighter with very quick hands.

[IntentionalButt]

Not an ATG no.

What difference does it make how old he was when he won it, the bottom line is, who have you beaten and if you have not beaten perceived great competition (Holmes) then you can at least have longevity as your claim to being an ATG. Even with that Larry still had a better resume than Tyson.

No one said he had a poor resume, its just it does not stand up when you try and make him an ATG.


Tyson fans :roll:

Tyson and Holmes both beat great opposition.

[mr. magoo]

I think anywhere from about 7-10 is reasonable, depending on the criteria of the individual who rates him.

He did manage to win and unify the heavyweight crown at a very young age, and is considered by most as the youngest champ that ever lived ( some still give it to Patterson. )

He also cleared out an entire division and generation of its best talent, plus has the earliest KO of another all time great. He later became a two time champ after returning to the ring following a 4 year abscense, and is somewhere around third for most heavyweight first round KO's.

There are definately some reasonable arguments out there for keeping his rating low, but frankly I think his resume is as good as most, and certainly worthy of the title ATG...

[kolcade4]

Show me where Tyson has a real A grade win? Holmes was finished, Spinks a terrific 175 but only an average HW, and they are probably his 2 best wins.
He beat everyone that was put in front of him up until the Douglas fight. Do you know of anyone that he intentionally ducked ? He probably should have fought Holyfield in 1989 or 1990 instead of fighting a decade removed from his prime. Even worse with Lennox Lewis having just entered the pro game in 1989 He was nowhere on a level that he could handle Mike Tyson at that time. I would have liked to have seen Mike fight Ray Mercer or Michael Moorer but they were just entering the pro ranks as Mike had been on a rampage and had fought and won 30 plus fights ,was the undisputed Heavyweight champ , there is no way these guys would have lasted one rd with Mike. Tyson beat the people put in front of him.He accomplished alot in a short period of time.Yes he did tarnish his career a bit with his wild ways but anyone that doesn't think Tyson is an ATG then they need to educate me on what the defintion of an ATG is.

[Muchmoore]

Show me where Tyson has a real A grade win? Holmes was finished, Spinks a terrific 175 but only an average HW, and they are probably his 2 best wins.

While it's true that Tyson has no A Grade win, he has very under rated depth in his resume combined with some very nice scalps nonetheless.

Holmes was far from "finished" too, considering he beat an unbeaten Ray Mercer 4 years after Tyson bombed Larry out. I'd say too that his wins over Ruddock are the best wins on his resume, Razor was very dangerous.

I rank Tyson very highly, and usually rank him anywhere from 3-5, depending on criteria. If it's purely resume Tyson is lower but still a lock for the top ten, regardless of what people say imo. Wins over Biggs, Holmes, Ruddock, Tubbs, Smith, Tucker, Berbick, Thomas, Golota, Stewart, Bruno, Williams are a very nice set of wins. And most of the things that Tyson is faulted for i.e. never getting off the canvas, no "A Grade wins, losing to a journeyman" Lennox Lewis deserves the SAME criticism for but somehow doesn't.

[Muchmoore]

I'd add the Tubbs win as another terrific performance. He took apart a durable guy with clinical ease. That left hook to finish things was a beautiful punch.
Not many heavyweights would have made Tubbs look so ordinary.

I agree. I'd say that Tyson from the Biggs fight to the Spinks fight was Tyson at his absolute best and also against the best opposition of his first career.

I enjoy watching him fight Holmes too, he looked better on the inside and in clinches against Larry than against anyone else he fought. I watched his Biggs fight the other day too, damn impressive. That version of Tyson would of bombed Douglas out within 6.

[Rourke]

I haven't got a clear picture yet on the old timers, last time I did a list I mostly had modern fighters on it from Joe Louis on. I think I had Tyson behind Lewis at #5, that basically means I love the guy, and I do.

The guy basically fucked it all up one night against Buster Douglas, when he got back from jail it was all gone.

[time lost]

I believe tyson was the crack head champion of the world!! just about eveybody he beat was a crackhead..........

[PbP Bacon]

Tyson: ATG or not ATG?... the neverending debate continues :yep

I am not fan of Tyson, and to be honest, sometimes it is upsetting to see all the excuses his fans make for his career failures and shortcomings... he is the original "shoulda, coulda, woulda" guy :D

But the guy is still an ATG, none the less.

Where to put him in the ATG ranking? Probably he is borderline top 10 :deal

[leverage]

Tyson at his best was in at least the top 5. The man was a freak of nature, being so heavily muscled yet so fast with his hands and feet. He possessed frightning power and contrary to what many thought, was a thinking fighter, not just someone who just threw caution to the wind. There was definitely a method to his madness and this, along with his elusiveness made him a most dangerous foe.

[Chinxkid]

We can't fault him for coming up in an era that didn't offer top competition. In stylistic match-ups I have trouble coming up with too many HW's that I would give big odds to against Mike. When you're a Tyson fan as I am, it's very easy to crossover into apologist territory, given Mike's disappointing performances against Douglas, Lewis, and Holyfield. But one of the best heavies, of all time? How many guys would you bet big money on against Mike, say in a series of three? Louis, Ali, and....?

[lefthook31]

We can't fault him for coming up in an era that didn't offer top competition. In stylistic match-ups I have trouble coming up with too many HW's that I would give big odds to against Mike. When you're a Tyson fan as I am, it's very easy to crossover into apologist territory, given Mike's disappointing performances against Douglas, Lewis, and Holyfield. But one of the best heavies, of all time? How many guys would you bet big money on against Mike, say in a series of three? Louis, Ali, and....?
I have always maintained the 80's and specifically the contenders of that era were all top notch. Not a lot of heartless guys with poor skills. With exception to rampant drug problems, the fighters themselves were technically very good and fought with a lot of heart. The same cannot be said for the young group that emerged around 94-95.

[junior-soprano]

We can't fault him for coming up in an era that didn't offer top competition. In stylistic match-ups I have trouble coming up with too many HW's that I would give big odds to against Mike. When you're a Tyson fan as I am, it's very easy to crossover into apologist territory, given Mike's disappointing performances against Douglas, Lewis, and Holyfield. But one of the best heavies, of all time? How many guys would you bet big money on against Mike, say in a series of three? Louis, Ali, and....?

louis, ali, foreman, liston, lewis, probably also holmes and frazier. like i said earlier i have tyson somewhere around 10. but mike never won against a good or great opponent whom he didn't ko'd in the first 8 rounds. if somebody took al what mike had and didn't fall or backed down. then it seemed as if mike backed down, and boxed at a slower pace and so

[Chinxkid]

louis, ali, foreman, liston, lewis, probably also holmes and frazier. like i said earlier i have tyson somewhere around 10. but mike never won against a good or great opponent whom he didn't ko'd in the first 8 rounds. if somebody took al what mike had and didn't fall or backed down. then it seemed as if mike backed down, and boxed at a slower pace and so

I think Mike had a problem with faith in himself, maybe a guilty conscience. I don't see it as backing down as such, it was less a choice than an unconscious reaction. We could call it heart, but somehow I think it's more complicated than that. Maybe he was smart enough to not like himself, for all the shit he did when he was a kid, for all the shit that was done to him before he was mature enough to understand. I'd like to hear what Mike would have to say about this recurring issue with his ability to come back after someone showed him they were going to stand up, as Holyfield did. There's a new documentary on him by Jimmy Tomack that looks good, where Mike does a lot of the talking. Has anybody seen it?

[lefthook31]

I think Mike had a problem with faith in himself, maybe a guilty conscience. I don't see it as backing down as such, it was less a choice than an unconscious reaction. We could call it heart, but somehow I think it's more complicated than that. Maybe he was smart enough to not like himself, for all the shit he did when he was a kid, for all the shit that was done to him before he was mature enough to understand. I'd like to hear what Mike would have to say about this recurring issue with his ability to come back after someone showed him they were going to stand up, as Holyfield did. There's a new documentary on him by Jimmy Tomack that looks good, where Mike does a lot of the talking. Has anybody seen it?
I saw it and was disappointed. Its basically the same footage as Fallen Champ the Untold Story of Mike Tyson with Tyson speaking over it. Nothing really new other than the fact that he had gonnereah during the Berbick fight. :lol:
I prefer the other movie because its from the perspective of people around Tyson, whereas Tyson has alway seemed to talk in circles.
I also think Tyson had a lot of problems with self confidence, and I never understood why he never hired Rooney back who always seemed to have Tyson's confidence dialed in correctly.

[Muchmoore]

louis, ali, foreman, liston, lewis, probably also holmes and frazier. like i said earlier i have tyson somewhere around 10. but mike never won against a good or great opponent whom he didn't ko'd in the first 8 rounds.

Since when did knocking out opponents before 8 rounds penalize you :lol:

Also, Liston didn't have any knockouts past 8 rounds more impressive than anything Tyson had. Tyson breaking down Ribalta and Biggs is proof that he didn't have a mental breakdown if he couldn't kill the early like people choose to believe.

[Chinxkid]

I saw it and was disappointed. Its basically the same footage as Fallen Champ the Untold Story of Mike Tyson with Tyson speaking over it. Nothing really new other than the fact that he had gonnereah during the Berbick fight. :lol:
I prefer the other movie because its from the perspective of people around Tyson, whereas Tyson has alway seemed to talk in circles.
I also think Tyson had a lot of problems with self confidence, and I never understood why he never hired Rooney back who always seemed to have Tyson's confidence dialed in correctly.

Ah, that's a drag. I was looking forward to it. I think Mike, with all his limitations verbally is a very bright guy. I'd really like to get his take on this stuff, as I think, and I know others disagree, he is also a very honest guy. Let's not confuse honesty with exemplary behavior in and out of the ring.

Why Tyson never got Kevin Rooney back and alienated quite a few others while he clung to guys that didn't have his best interests in mind I think goes back to his lack of faith in himself. In Mike's case, I think it's deep, which is really a redeeming quality; since it implies an intact conscience. Being taken in by Cus and Jimmy Jacobs at such a young age sheltered Mike, gave him a false sense of security in the fight world. When he no longer had that umbrella he was lost, and the fame and fortune vultures sensing an easy prey swooped in on him. Again, why he was vulnerable to them is a result of his naivete and his shaky sense of self. Love him or hate him he's one of the most interesting figures in the history of the game.

[sugarsean]

Yes he is one the best heavyweights of all time

Based on his talent and technical abilities anywhere from 7 - 10 is a fair ranking in my opinion

the one thing that really goes against him is that never won a fight that he was behind in, any time he was met with adversary he lost and that has to weigh heavily against him because it doesn’t matter how talented you are its when you are met with adversary and are able to overcome it that shows that you are a true all time great, all the fights that he won he was the dominate fighter in them fights, but he did show great heart in his losses to Douglas and Holyfield (1). But whenever he was against someone that was able to stand up to him and fight him back he couldn’t comeback and turn it around to win the fight which is something the truly great fighters are able to do. He's still one of the best heavyweights in history of boxing

[fists of fury]

Since when did knocking out opponents before 8 rounds penalize you :lol:

Also, Liston didn't have any knockouts past 8 rounds more impressive than anything Tyson had. Tyson breaking down Ribalta and Biggs is proof that he didn't have a mental breakdown if he couldn't kill the early like people choose to believe.

It's a ridiculous argument.

But in any event, he compares quite favourably to the following:

Ko's past the 8th round:

Sonny Liston - 1
Lennox Lewis - 0
Wladimir Klitschko - 2
George Foreman - 2

Shit, even Rocky Marciano only managed 4. Evander got 3. Frazier got 3.

It seems that it's the accumulation punchers that fare the best:

Ali - 8
Jack Johnson - 8
Larry Holmes - 5