The Bert Randolph Sugar Myth Thread

[cotto20]

Discuss in this thread all the myths Bert Sugar has said over the years and things he has said or done that have shocked you......:deal

I will start

Lennox Lewis is not a top 15 Heavyweight
Michael Spinks is not a top 100 fighter
Ray Robinson is the only ever fighter to KO someone backwards

discuss

[JudgeDredd]

I agree with the first one

[essexboy]

I agree with the first one

:nut Bert alert!

[cotto20]

I agree with the first one

So you agree with him that Lennox is not even a top 15 HW? :huh

[cotto20]

:nut Bert alert!
:lol::lol::lol:

[Dempsey1238]

The Rocky Marciano nose cement thing on Ringside, The fight footage shows pretty well how they delt with the cut, by putting a endless supplie of guards in the Rock's nose.

Than Ringside, Bert forgets about the guards and says hey, they put fast drying cemate in the cut.

Yeah right.

[JudgeDredd]

:nut Bert alert!

:lol:

[JudgeDredd]

So you agree with him that Lennox is not even a top 15 HW? :huh

Yep

[cotto20]

The Rocky Marciano nose cement thing on Ringside, The fight footage shows pretty well how they delt with the cut, by putting a endless supplie of guards in the Rock's nose.

Than Ringside, Bert forgets about the guards and says hey, they put fast drying cemate in the cut.

Yeah right.

Great one....:lol:

Bert never lets fact get in the way of a good story.

Cerment:D

[cotto20]

Yep

Who are your top 15 heavyweights

[SteveO]

In Bert's Top 100 fighters book, he has Spinks there.

[cotto20]

In Bert's Top 100 fighters book, he has Spinks there.

No he dosent

[Shake]

Nonono, that was Leon Spinks.

[Dempsey1238]

Barney Ross has a great chin atg chin.

But other myth is the Ross was never floor myth that Bert keeps bringing up.

Ross was down a few times, but never ko in over 80 fights.

[road_warrior_99]

Bert Sugar keeps bragging about how he was in the ring sparring with Muhammad Ali ( at the time Cassius Clay)? Is this true, or just a story to give him more Boxing Credibility?

[My2Sense]

But other myth is the Ross was never floor myth that Bert keeps bringing up.

Ross was down a few times, but never ko in over 80 fights.

First thing that came to my mind when I saw this thread.

[SteveO]

No he dosent

Shit, I could have sworn he did.

Maybe he's in the Honorable Mention section.

Along with Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Twice.

[cotto20]

Shit, I could have sworn he did.

Maybe he's in the Honorable Mention section.

Along with Floyd Mayweather Jr.

Twice.

This is correct

[PetethePrince]

The Rocky Marciano nose cement thing on Ringside, The fight footage shows pretty well how they delt with the cut, by putting a endless supplie of guards in the Rock's nose.

Than Ringside, Bert forgets about the guards and says hey, they put fast drying cemate in the cut.

Yeah right.

The NY times reporter said this I thought, didn't he? Bill Gallo?

[djanders]

Emphasis mine...The Rocky Marciano nose cement thing on Ringside, The fight footage shows pretty well how they delt with the cut, by putting a endless supplie of guards in the Rock's nose.

Than Ringside, Bert forgets about the guards and says hey, they put fast drying cement in the cut.

Yeah right.

:lol:

[My2Sense]

The NY times reporter said this I thought, didn't he? Bill Gallo?

Yes, I've seen Gallo repeat that story in his more recent articles.

[Dempsey1238]

Gallo is just as bad imo.

The fight film shows other wise.

[JudgeDredd]

Sugars been around the fight game a long time, he might exagerate a few things but I think he's one of the few old time characters left in the sport.

[Jaws]

He claims that when Tyson and Spinks where in their neighboring dressing rooms before the fight, Tyson punched through the wall and his fist went right under Spinks' nose on the other side.

Tyson may have punched the wall, but it's a classic example of adding a whole lot of extra details to make it a good story.

[JudgeDredd]

He claims that when Tyson and Spinks where in their neighboring dressing rooms before the fight, Tyson punched through the wall and his fist went right under Spinks' nose on the other side.

Tyson may have punched the wall, but it's a classic example of adding a whole lot of extra details to make it a good story.

:lol: He's a gem, & I love him!

[Dempsey1238]

Tyson did punch holes in the wall for the fight,

But he didnt punch though the wall,(Much less almost hitting Spinks in the nose. ete)

There is still a lot of wall bettween Tyson's locker room, and Spinks locker room, but I dont think there locker rooms were relly right next to each other. Perhaps, I never been there.

[heehoo]

Bert Sugar keeps bragging about how he was in the ring sparring with Muhammad Ali ( at the time Cassius Clay)? Is this true, or just a story to give him more Boxing Credibility?

There IS a photo of Sugar sparring with the greatest, and Burt is fighting out of a southpaw stance.

[road_warrior_99]

There IS a photo of Sugar sparring with the greatest, and Burt is fighting out of a southpaw stance.

Cutos to him for parlaying his "Sugar Coated" stories into a thriving business career over all these years. I like boxing but I can't see myself making a red cent from the business angle of boxing. Those old school writers literarilly could get away with murder by over-dramatizing actual events. Look at the boxing events that have no film, Firpo-Dempsey is one of the most over-dramatized boxing matches of all time because there is no video evidence. It leaves the reader imagining the action as described by the writer- I am sure everyone has a different picture of this fight in their head of Firpo sending Dempsey out of the ring. In Baseball there is no video of Babe Ruth calling his shot in Chicago, and it is the single most written about (over-dramatized) event in baseball. Burt Sugar continues in this veign of over-dramatization following his mentors and probably says "screw it" when the video evidence says otherwise. "Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story"

[dezbeast]

There is footage of the Dempsey-Firpo match. I actually saw it. I'm sure many others here have to.

[Muchmoore]

Look at the boxing events that have no film, Firpo-Dempsey is one of the most over-dramatized boxing matches of all time because there is no video evidence. It leaves the reader imagining the action as described by the writer"

Firpo-Dempsey is on youtube :lol:

[McGrain]

:lol:

Quality. Especially the part about "everyone having a different" vision of the fight "in their head".

[cotto20]

Cutos to him for parlaying his "Sugar Coated" stories into a thriving business career over all these years. I like boxing but I can't see myself making a red cent from the business angle of boxing. Those old school writers literarilly could get away with murder by over-dramatizing actual events. Look at the boxing events that have no film, Firpo-Dempsey is one of the most over-dramatized boxing matches of all time because there is no video evidence. It leaves the reader imagining the action as described by the writer- I am sure everyone has a different picture of this fight in their head of Firpo sending Dempsey out of the ring. In Baseball there is no video of Babe Ruth calling his shot in Chicago, and it is the single most written about (over-dramatized) event in baseball. Burt Sugar continues in this veign of over-dramatization following his mentors and probably says "screw it" when the video evidence says otherwise. "Don't let the facts get in the way of a good story"


[Only registered and activated users can see links]

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Flea Man]

Yeah, Firpo-Dempsey is easy to get hold of. WTF is that dude on about?

[Vantage_West]

ok forget firpo-dempsey but roadwarrior made many valid point.


things like willie pep winning a round without throwing a punch
marcianos concrete nose
he prolly is a believer in ali changing gloves in london

[cotto20]

ok forget firpo-dempsey but roadwarrior made many valid point.


things like willie pep winning a round without throwing a punch
marcianos concrete nose
he prolly is a believer in ali changing gloves in london

also add ray robinson is the only ever fighter to KO someone going backwards. i've seen fighters ko someone lots of times going backwards, but he makes robinson is the only ever person to do this.

Half the things the man says, are probaly just made up in his head. but he does make me laugh, some of the stuff he come's out with. :lol:

[klompton]

In Baseball there is no video of Babe Ruth calling his shot in Chicago, and it is the single most written about (over-dramatized) event in baseball.


There are actually two different films of the called shot.

Oh, and the Marciano nose cement story might be partially true. There used to be a substance they could use back in the old days that was similar to rubber cement. You put it in a cut and it would dry very quickly and literally bond to the skin. They outlawed it in boxing because after the fight was over you literally had to cut out of the skin which would make the wound and eventual scarring worse. Furthermore, if it got in the eyes of the fighter it was very dangerous and could easily blind you. I cant remember the name of this stuff but it is possible that is what Sugar and others have mentioned as being "quick drying cement".

[Dempsey1238]

Perhaps, but seeing all thsos guards stuff in the Rock's nose sort of tells me they didnt used that method.

[road_warrior_99]

Thanks BoxingGlove1, should have done my homework before posting the Dempsey-Firpo rant... I got mixed up because I read somewhere that the clip of the film showing Dempsey falling out of the ring was cut out of the master film and lost. OBVIOUSLY, youtube busted me!!!! I looked for the video of the Bambino calling his shot and no luck up till now. Peace out....

[cotto20]

I guess he has made some contributions to boxing but he has always worked better as a storyteller than a legit historian. Not the most reliable source in the boxing knowledge department.

Bert has never lets facts get in the way of a good story..............:lol:

[klompton]

Thanks BoxingGlove1, should have done my homework before posting the Dempsey-Firpo rant... I got mixed up because I read somewhere that the clip of the film showing Dempsey falling out of the ring was cut out of the master film and lost. OBVIOUSLY, youtube busted me!!!! I looked for the video of the Bambino calling his shot and no luck up till now. Peace out....


The two films are home movie films shot by fans from stadium bleachers. Both are in private collections and as far as I know have only been shown once on television several years ago as part of the news story discussing the find.

P.S. The footage of Dempsey being knocked out of the ring and climbing back in has been edited somewhat, just how much is up to debate.

[heehoo]

.....

[My2Sense]

:lol:

Quality. Especially the part about "everyone having a different" vision of the fight "in their head".

Some people have this version in their head, with Firpo wearing red trunks:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Others have this version, with Firpo in purple trunks:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]


Here's my version:

[Only registered and activated users can see links]

[mcvey]

There are actually two different films of the called shot.

Oh, and the Marciano nose cement story might be partially true. There used to be a substance they could use back in the old days that was similar to rubber cement. You put it in a cut and it would dry very quickly and literally bond to the skin. They outlawed it in boxing because after the fight was over you literally had to cut out of the skin which would make the wound and eventual scarring worse. Furthermore, if it got in the eyes of the fighter it was very dangerous and could easily blind you. I cant remember the name of this stuff but it is possible that is what Sugar and others have mentioned as being "quick drying cement".

Monsel's Solution,it was quick drying ,but had to be chiseled out and could irreparably damage the eye if allowed to get in to it,that's why it was banned.

[Tuaman]

I miss Bert Sugar. I disagreed with some of his opinions, but I always enjoyed listening to his stories.

Bert said a few years ago that Primo Carnera would knock out Wladimir Klitschko. I have my doubts on that one.

Also, Bert said quite often that Jack Dempsey's left hook was better than Joe Frazier's. It's not that I disagree, but I think he says that only because of the Willard fight. The footage of Dempsey is pretty grainy, while fight footage of Smokin' Joe is in much better quality. Therefore, I'm not sure why he's so certain that Dempsey's hook was better.

[Jack Dempsey]

Pep winning the round without throwing a punch was the one that springs to mind, not uniquely Sugars myth but one he seems to perpetuate